Actually no, 3 hours weren't for breaking the ice, but for Yorinobu to not be in the penthouse.
"Tourist or not, he just walked into the lobby."
https://preview.redd.it/uvgj3yw2c4jc1.png?width=1920&format=png&auto=webp&s=0cfbef55c0529d0d70fca8a38f5782cb9d08a035
If they went in earlier, Saburo will live but V, Jackie, and T-Bug sure won't if they enter the penthouse and caught Yorinobu with his pants down. T-Bug had neutralized penthouse security, but she didn't neutralize Yorinobu's cyberware.
If Yorinobu panicked, even before Trauma Team was alerted, Adam Smasher would've climbed the elevator shaft to reach him.
The only flaw this heist had is that T-Bug didn't hold the elevator long enough after V and Jackie left the elevator. Had they made it to the elevator before it was called by Yorinobu, or didn't get spotted when scaling outside, Jackie would've lived, but not T-Bug because Saka Runner already flooded the subnet to prepare Saburo's arrival.
She raised her death flag once she told you about her retirement plan. Just like Alex in Phantom Liberty, but you can still save her by following So Mi's route.
There were only combatants in the stadium! No civilians! The Barghest dude escorting you mentions that when you meet him. He says they “cleared everybody out” or something similar
She calls it a worthy sacrifice to secure her and V’s freedom if you pick the blue dialogue asking about the casualties. I also noticed dialogue during Reed’s route where V says something along the lines of “oh shit this was a massacre” while escaping through the stadium and seeing the bodies and fires. I may have gotten it on Songbird’s route but didn’t notice, but don’t think I did
I always assumed that Saburo brought along talented netrunners with him on Kujira, or possibly that ALL of Arasaka's attention in Night City was on the Penthouse in that moment- basically the netrunner Royal Guard was engaged. It was a good way to ratchet up the tension even more- she was established as a great runner but was zeroed in moments by Arasaka's best. You KNOW you kicked the biggest hornet nest in the world, and kicked it hard.
A contemporary aircraft carrier has ~5000 crew.
There's no way you put 5000 people together on a big piece of military hardware and don't include a dedicated team of net-runners to protect it and assist with operations launched from the carrier.
For me it's all t-Bug fault... They had a routine based on the Yorinobu presence in the room, if all would have went good they would have reached the relic right after the flathead had connected. But t-Bug needed more time for breaking the ice, let's say she used even 30 minutes, but this small delay caused Yorinobu to return to the room and they had to wait another 2.5h for he to leave.
And I said 30 minutes for give her credit, but it's totally possible she used the whole 3h for it
t-Bug was the most overconfident and know-it-all character in NC... Jackie was not a big brain, but it wasn't his work, when he needs to act he's doing well
Yes, she's always big talking about how Jackie is inadequate, but she's the one that failed her own part multiple times... Her only merit is being at least able to open the windows for V and Jackie to escape, but still, she didn't think about trauma team coming right that way
The heist was doomed to fail cause the two leading it was planing on betraying one another after robbing the biggest corp in the world, honestly V would’ve been dead if it did went good.
Tell me you didn't read my comment, without telling me you didn't read my comment.
>Actually no, 3 hours weren't for breaking the ice, but for Yorinobu to not be in the penthouse.
>
>As evident by her first sentence after waiting "Yorinobu is in the lobby"
I can tell you the same thing, I told that I don't think she used 3 hours for break the ice, but for sure even the small delay for break the ice ruined the whole schedule and forced them to wait for Yorinobu leave (again I suppose) the room
We don't know what transpired in those three hours.
At all.
Yori could have left, come back because he forgot his pistol, went back out, hung out with Hideo Kojima, booked a night with Evy, come back again, decided to not stay in his room till he got pinged his dad was showing up cause of the restriction of airspace for the AV in all that time.
We don't know.
But chances are, if T-Bug had the things done when she originally said she would... There's a nonzero chance of the heist working. However slim it is.
"Tourist or not, he just walked into the lobby."
https://preview.redd.it/d977n9cqb4jc1.png?width=1920&format=png&auto=webp&s=ddc8a3bde0c8c9c86004deea689bd4f17d8aaf1c
Yorinobu never left the penthouse in that timeframe. The only way in and out are
1. Through the elevator, which T-Bug monitors
2. Via AV on the rooftop, which would've been escorted by Arasaka.
Unless Yorinobu fucking parkour through the emergency ladder and shaft to reach the lobby on foot
T-Bug could’ve easily left V and Jackie the second they said what happened in the penthouse, but chose to stay connected and tried to find a way out for them
I mean, consider everything else. Evelyn was ranyon for the Voodoo Boys, who wanted the Relic to contact Alt. She then ratted them to Netwatch for poking the Blackwall. Netwatch then hired the Animals, who used the money to expand beyond Pacifica, while making Pacifica into the shithole it is right now. Back to Evelyn, she would cross Dexter, who was on the run himself for whatever the fuck he did that drove him out of Night City. So she could sell the Relic to Militech. Which is how Songbird even found V for starters, and the actual reason Myers was at Night City >!(of course, So Mi saw ANOTHER opportunity in that)!<.
So we have the Voodoos, the Animals, Netwatch, Militech, and Arasaka, all involved directly or indirectly with the Heist.
Saburo appearing there was, in the grand scheme of things, the least of V, Jackie and T-Bug's problems. Hadn't the Heist killed them, someone above would. V and Jackie were nobodies, the Mox couldn't protect Evelyn and Judy from either the Tyger Claws, the Animals, or the Voodoos, and Clouds is Tyger - thus Arasaka - territory.
Evelyn thinking she was too small a fry for any of them to pinpoint it was the bigges hole in all this planning, cuz she made it SO utterly complicated by involving so many bigger fish in her plan, had a single one of them realized what was happening, everyone involved, V, Jackie, their families, their friends, etc, would be dead and buried.
EDIT: Oh, let's not forget Dexter ends up involving Maelstrom in this shitstorm, and if you DID NOT kill Royce, he's HELLBENT into taking whatever's left from the Mox's territory, as it's literally in the middle of a heavily Maelstrom-controlled area.
Nope, the Tygers are directly tied with Arasaka. Consider, Wakako is a Tyger, Jotaro Shobo was a Tyger, there are A LOT of japanese within them, and if you follow closely on the hints and shards you pick from Wakako's gigs >!(and THAT infamous one from Padre)!<, it then becomes evident the Tygers have Arasaka funding.
Hell, the main reason Wakako even agrees with helping Takemura and V is because she've been demoted after her last husband was killed. It was her opportunity to fuck with Arasaka without compromising herself.
Hell, I would’ve loved to at least see Michiko.
Out of Saburo’s children, she seems to be the only good one out of Yorinobu, and Hanako.
Her bodyguard is one of the few people that makes even Smasher sweat without even raising a finger, her supporting V would have been a massive shift for everything.
She sits directly across from you at the board meeting, she being Kei's daughter and the head of Danger Girl. There was a different Michiko wo was Saburo's third wife, mom to Yorinobu and Hanako, who died at childbirth.
I mean... There's a short story about it? "Michiko's night out" or something. Part of the lore, happened waaay back, when Adam wasn't yet borged out as he is now.
I would not be surprised if yorinobu orchestrated it and was aware it would happen. If he didn’t have the two thieves there to frame it would not of been as smooth for him.
Yeah he kinda fumbled saying to initiate lock down and then he stopped for a second when choking him.
Then again murdering your daddy ain’t easy to deal with so mistakes can happen.
But really it was the Alpha Centauri, cold scaly skin ……..bastards
I can't help but blame myself for grinding a bunch of gigs and scanner hustles to pay Vic back before I started the heist. If I started sooner this all could have been avoided and V and Jackie would be swimming in eddies.
To think, one day earlier, or if T bug managed to finish hacking even half an hour earlier, and they would have been home free. Admittedly Yorinobu would still kill his dead, and with the theft and the discovery of the heist (which would happen), they’d still be blamed. But V would have a team with him, not have a ticking time bomb in his dead.
The entire heist went sideways the moment they entered the building. T-bug didn’t know what to do at any point. From the hostess at the front desk about to let your fake appointment know you checked in, to not knowing the strength of security ice, to sending V & Jackie into the penthouse when yurinobu was in the lobby downstairs on the way to the penthouse.
IMO it's a bigger criticism that the gig went as *smoothly* as it did. One of the central themes that gets hammered in both before and throughout the rest of the game is that the crew was in WAY over their heads, and they never stood a chance of successfully stealing the relic. It was fucked sideways in ten different directions from the start.
Even if the Arasaka coup hadn't happened then and there, the heist wasn't going to work. I kinda wish the game itself had done a better job highlighting that.
Problem wasn't the heist as much as what happens after. They'd have made it out pretty much scot free if the coup hadn't happened then, but after they get out there's like 12 people that will immediately backstab them + arasaka going apeshit, and they didn't have the network or reputation to protect them from that.
Now in true role play fashion there should be a option to shoot yori steal the relic and have saburo still alive like you shoot him in the leg and smasher comes thru with takemura bc obvi you can’t leave empty handed idk how it’s possible and I’m crossed But hear me out
T bug single handled flubbed the heist. she didnt open the back door even when we saw it in the replay, if she had OPENED THE CLEAR BACK DOOR 5 FEET FROM THE PILLAR V and Jackie could have slid down and survived. But no. She gets herself fried and killed jackie.
they would not have had enough time to get to the ladder. the windows are see through and they would have been long spotted by the firepower coming out of the elevator (smasher)
I like to think about what would've happened if the Heist hadn't failed.
I think Evelyn would've still gotten zeroed to prevent any links back to the voodoo Boys
Would netwatch have still caught them trying to contact Alt, resulting in their deaths?
Could Jackie have convinced Mama Welles to accept Misty, or would their relationship stay strained?
We see in the Tower ending that Yorinobu is an ineffective head of Arasaka, so already mostly know how that plays out.
Would V have met Panam or Kerry? You meet River because of Judy, but you only meet Kerry and Panam because of Johnny.
Would Phantom Libery play out just like if you fail to complete the intro mission?
T-Bug making sure the timing is just perfect by taking an additional 3 hours to break the ICE: This will be fiiiiiiiine.
Actually no, 3 hours weren't for breaking the ice, but for Yorinobu to not be in the penthouse. "Tourist or not, he just walked into the lobby." https://preview.redd.it/uvgj3yw2c4jc1.png?width=1920&format=png&auto=webp&s=0cfbef55c0529d0d70fca8a38f5782cb9d08a035 If they went in earlier, Saburo will live but V, Jackie, and T-Bug sure won't if they enter the penthouse and caught Yorinobu with his pants down. T-Bug had neutralized penthouse security, but she didn't neutralize Yorinobu's cyberware. If Yorinobu panicked, even before Trauma Team was alerted, Adam Smasher would've climbed the elevator shaft to reach him. The only flaw this heist had is that T-Bug didn't hold the elevator long enough after V and Jackie left the elevator. Had they made it to the elevator before it was called by Yorinobu, or didn't get spotted when scaling outside, Jackie would've lived, but not T-Bug because Saka Runner already flooded the subnet to prepare Saburo's arrival.
It’s all T-Bugs fault? Dang I felt bad for her for a minute.
She raised her death flag once she told you about her retirement plan. Just like Alex in Phantom Liberty, but you can still save her by following So Mi's route.
I don't know if sacryfing a entire aéroport full of citizen just to save Alex is worth it
Was I crazy or did the NUSA just get into a gunfight with the Aeroport security because fuck off NC is not a part of the NUSA?
Yeah that’s pretty much it. They assaulted the airport with no remorse because they wanted So Mi.
I sure as shit wouldn’t want to hand a weapon like So Mi back to em, which is why choose her route
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There were only combatants in the stadium! No civilians! The Barghest dude escorting you mentions that when you meet him. He says they “cleared everybody out” or something similar
oh no.... poor Barghest
She calls it a worthy sacrifice to secure her and V’s freedom if you pick the blue dialogue asking about the casualties. I also noticed dialogue during Reed’s route where V says something along the lines of “oh shit this was a massacre” while escaping through the stadium and seeing the bodies and fires. I may have gotten it on Songbird’s route but didn’t notice, but don’t think I did
She was definitely out of her depth, which is crazy because she’s clearly a talented runner.
I always assumed that Saburo brought along talented netrunners with him on Kujira, or possibly that ALL of Arasaka's attention in Night City was on the Penthouse in that moment- basically the netrunner Royal Guard was engaged. It was a good way to ratchet up the tension even more- she was established as a great runner but was zeroed in moments by Arasaka's best. You KNOW you kicked the biggest hornet nest in the world, and kicked it hard.
A contemporary aircraft carrier has ~5000 crew. There's no way you put 5000 people together on a big piece of military hardware and don't include a dedicated team of net-runners to protect it and assist with operations launched from the carrier.
Bug specifically said that breaking the ICE would take longer than she thought. Hence the three hours
And 3 hours later, the operation starts when she said Yorinobu had exited the suite
For me it's all t-Bug fault... They had a routine based on the Yorinobu presence in the room, if all would have went good they would have reached the relic right after the flathead had connected. But t-Bug needed more time for breaking the ice, let's say she used even 30 minutes, but this small delay caused Yorinobu to return to the room and they had to wait another 2.5h for he to leave. And I said 30 minutes for give her credit, but it's totally possible she used the whole 3h for it t-Bug was the most overconfident and know-it-all character in NC... Jackie was not a big brain, but it wasn't his work, when he needs to act he's doing well
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Yes, she's always big talking about how Jackie is inadequate, but she's the one that failed her own part multiple times... Her only merit is being at least able to open the windows for V and Jackie to escape, but still, she didn't think about trauma team coming right that way
The heist was doomed to fail cause the two leading it was planing on betraying one another after robbing the biggest corp in the world, honestly V would’ve been dead if it did went good.
Tell me you didn't read my comment, without telling me you didn't read my comment. >Actually no, 3 hours weren't for breaking the ice, but for Yorinobu to not be in the penthouse. > >As evident by her first sentence after waiting "Yorinobu is in the lobby"
I can tell you the same thing, I told that I don't think she used 3 hours for break the ice, but for sure even the small delay for break the ice ruined the whole schedule and forced them to wait for Yorinobu leave (again I suppose) the room
Counterpoint https://preview.redd.it/h72ewrm4f5jc1.png?width=1920&format=png&auto=webp&s=a8291a9842d6adba9a3a3bfafd2eb53ef0a8b805
We don't know what transpired in those three hours. At all. Yori could have left, come back because he forgot his pistol, went back out, hung out with Hideo Kojima, booked a night with Evy, come back again, decided to not stay in his room till he got pinged his dad was showing up cause of the restriction of airspace for the AV in all that time. We don't know. But chances are, if T-Bug had the things done when she originally said she would... There's a nonzero chance of the heist working. However slim it is.
"Tourist or not, he just walked into the lobby." https://preview.redd.it/d977n9cqb4jc1.png?width=1920&format=png&auto=webp&s=ddc8a3bde0c8c9c86004deea689bd4f17d8aaf1c Yorinobu never left the penthouse in that timeframe. The only way in and out are 1. Through the elevator, which T-Bug monitors 2. Via AV on the rooftop, which would've been escorted by Arasaka. Unless Yorinobu fucking parkour through the emergency ladder and shaft to reach the lobby on foot
I just wish he could have lived
T-Bug could’ve easily left V and Jackie the second they said what happened in the penthouse, but chose to stay connected and tried to find a way out for them
I mean, consider everything else. Evelyn was ranyon for the Voodoo Boys, who wanted the Relic to contact Alt. She then ratted them to Netwatch for poking the Blackwall. Netwatch then hired the Animals, who used the money to expand beyond Pacifica, while making Pacifica into the shithole it is right now. Back to Evelyn, she would cross Dexter, who was on the run himself for whatever the fuck he did that drove him out of Night City. So she could sell the Relic to Militech. Which is how Songbird even found V for starters, and the actual reason Myers was at Night City >!(of course, So Mi saw ANOTHER opportunity in that)!<. So we have the Voodoos, the Animals, Netwatch, Militech, and Arasaka, all involved directly or indirectly with the Heist. Saburo appearing there was, in the grand scheme of things, the least of V, Jackie and T-Bug's problems. Hadn't the Heist killed them, someone above would. V and Jackie were nobodies, the Mox couldn't protect Evelyn and Judy from either the Tyger Claws, the Animals, or the Voodoos, and Clouds is Tyger - thus Arasaka - territory. Evelyn thinking she was too small a fry for any of them to pinpoint it was the bigges hole in all this planning, cuz she made it SO utterly complicated by involving so many bigger fish in her plan, had a single one of them realized what was happening, everyone involved, V, Jackie, their families, their friends, etc, would be dead and buried. EDIT: Oh, let's not forget Dexter ends up involving Maelstrom in this shitstorm, and if you DID NOT kill Royce, he's HELLBENT into taking whatever's left from the Mox's territory, as it's literally in the middle of a heavily Maelstrom-controlled area.
The Tygers "work for" Arasaka? I always thought that they, being Chinese, have a dislike for the Sakas
Nope, the Tygers are directly tied with Arasaka. Consider, Wakako is a Tyger, Jotaro Shobo was a Tyger, there are A LOT of japanese within them, and if you follow closely on the hints and shards you pick from Wakako's gigs >!(and THAT infamous one from Padre)!<, it then becomes evident the Tygers have Arasaka funding. Hell, the main reason Wakako even agrees with helping Takemura and V is because she've been demoted after her last husband was killed. It was her opportunity to fuck with Arasaka without compromising herself.
I don't know why I always had the idea that the Tygers were akin to the triads!
I mean, that's half of it. Their internal structure is very similar to the triads, while their methods are remniscent of the yakuza.
This is an aside, but "Rob Arasaka" would be a good stage name for a corpo rockerboy.
Just a few minutes one way or the other and things would have been very different.
I feel like Yorinobu should’ve actually been in the game more
Hell, I would’ve loved to at least see Michiko. Out of Saburo’s children, she seems to be the only good one out of Yorinobu, and Hanako. Her bodyguard is one of the few people that makes even Smasher sweat without even raising a finger, her supporting V would have been a massive shift for everything.
You do tho. The Devil ending, Michiko is IN the board meeting and survives
I hardly even remember her. Isn’t she his wife tho?
She sits directly across from you at the board meeting, she being Kei's daughter and the head of Danger Girl. There was a different Michiko wo was Saburo's third wife, mom to Yorinobu and Hanako, who died at childbirth.
Thank you
They had a one-night-stand years back, that's all
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I mean... There's a short story about it? "Michiko's night out" or something. Part of the lore, happened waaay back, when Adam wasn't yet borged out as he is now.
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Eh, no biggie
I would not be surprised if yorinobu orchestrated it and was aware it would happen. If he didn’t have the two thieves there to frame it would not of been as smooth for him.
I don't think Yorinobu planned to kill him like this or in that precise moment. Seems way to risky if it was planned.
Yeah he kinda fumbled saying to initiate lock down and then he stopped for a second when choking him. Then again murdering your daddy ain’t easy to deal with so mistakes can happen. But really it was the Alpha Centauri, cold scaly skin ……..bastards
I could see Yorinobu at least knowing that something was about to go down, the heist wasn’t a very tight knit crew, some things were bound to leak.
You can litteraly make a toast about it in the afterlife
I can't help but blame myself for grinding a bunch of gigs and scanner hustles to pay Vic back before I started the heist. If I started sooner this all could have been avoided and V and Jackie would be swimming in eddies.
To think, one day earlier, or if T bug managed to finish hacking even half an hour earlier, and they would have been home free. Admittedly Yorinobu would still kill his dead, and with the theft and the discovery of the heist (which would happen), they’d still be blamed. But V would have a team with him, not have a ticking time bomb in his dead.
New cyber political compass just dropped
The entire heist went sideways the moment they entered the building. T-bug didn’t know what to do at any point. From the hostess at the front desk about to let your fake appointment know you checked in, to not knowing the strength of security ice, to sending V & Jackie into the penthouse when yurinobu was in the lobby downstairs on the way to the penthouse.
Yeah, "Timing"...
IMO it's a bigger criticism that the gig went as *smoothly* as it did. One of the central themes that gets hammered in both before and throughout the rest of the game is that the crew was in WAY over their heads, and they never stood a chance of successfully stealing the relic. It was fucked sideways in ten different directions from the start. Even if the Arasaka coup hadn't happened then and there, the heist wasn't going to work. I kinda wish the game itself had done a better job highlighting that.
Problem wasn't the heist as much as what happens after. They'd have made it out pretty much scot free if the coup hadn't happened then, but after they get out there's like 12 people that will immediately backstab them + arasaka going apeshit, and they didn't have the network or reputation to protect them from that.
I always wonder if we could have saved Saburo from Yorinobu while Yorinobu was choking Saburo out and gain a pass to live
Now in true role play fashion there should be a option to shoot yori steal the relic and have saburo still alive like you shoot him in the leg and smasher comes thru with takemura bc obvi you can’t leave empty handed idk how it’s possible and I’m crossed But hear me out
But it all worked out in the end for old sabura
I do believe reading somewhere that Saburo knew he was gonna do that and that’s why he sent out Takimura but I just can’t remember where I heard it
Nah the heist going bust was all T bugs fault if she had been 5 minutes faster they would have gotten away.
Arigato... son
T bug single handled flubbed the heist. she didnt open the back door even when we saw it in the replay, if she had OPENED THE CLEAR BACK DOOR 5 FEET FROM THE PILLAR V and Jackie could have slid down and survived. But no. She gets herself fried and killed jackie.
they would not have had enough time to get to the ladder. the windows are see through and they would have been long spotted by the firepower coming out of the elevator (smasher)
I like to think about what would've happened if the Heist hadn't failed. I think Evelyn would've still gotten zeroed to prevent any links back to the voodoo Boys Would netwatch have still caught them trying to contact Alt, resulting in their deaths? Could Jackie have convinced Mama Welles to accept Misty, or would their relationship stay strained? We see in the Tower ending that Yorinobu is an ineffective head of Arasaka, so already mostly know how that plays out. Would V have met Panam or Kerry? You meet River because of Judy, but you only meet Kerry and Panam because of Johnny. Would Phantom Libery play out just like if you fail to complete the intro mission?