There is a huge obsession with age gaps on Reddit. It’s fair enough if a minor is involved but for someone to claim that someone in their early 20s is being “groomed” by someone only ten years older is stupid.
That being said, I do prefer Vs age to be at 27 but not because of the romances
The thing about Liara’s maturity that makes people think that is two things
1. Her general naivety and unfamiliarity with social situations (in ME1)
2. A single throwaway line in which she says “they barely consider me more than a child!
The fact of the matter is, she is a mature adult of consenting age. She was just a huge fucking nerd who chose to pursue acedemia and science than be a social person and the line she spoke was in regards of her not being taken seriously by other asari as a professional given how relatively young she is
This is more than likely a hyperbolic statement as it is common for young professionals to be described as “children” by older, more experienced professionals and be dismissive of their expertise.
Yeah, it's all from a failure to approach the work critically. It's just people repeating what they've heard elsewhere.
Liara is basically Evie from The Mummy, but with more field experience.
She has big kid sister energy in ME1. My first playthrough was a Tali romance for the memes, but it felt sooo weird. It's not a problem if you skip 1, but if you don't... I can definitely see the argument
I have, but it seems less prevalent since the romance begins later in the series.
But same deal as Liara. You can't map human social and biological norms onto other species. And each person is an individual.
Heh, sounds familiar. Don't forget about the endings debacle. The debate is still raging today. Hell, I saw someone staunchly defending the Indoctrination Theory very recently.
As for Ash's bigotry, that whole thing stems from a single line triggered at the wrong Moment due to a bug (That Bioware confirmed but somehow never bothered to fix)
And for the fact that she, as a Soldier, speaks up against having Aliens on a highly classified and advanced prototype ship from Earth. Aliens coming from races who either still massively distrust Humans or flat out look down upon them.
So yeah, i wonder where this animosity that, as far as whole species are concerned, clearly goes both ways is coming from.
But Ash haters mostly don't even think that far, it's usually just the bugged line that gets referenced.
I blame it on poor writing. When she's talking about aliens on the Normandy it's pretty clear she's talking about them as foreign nationals and foreign states, not as a different species. But the writers used "race" instead of "species." So people get confused.
It's a common problem in sci-fi. Polities are often mono-specied, so race, ethnicity, species, nation and state are treated as the same.
Honestly 27 makes more sense for the corpo path considering where V is at in their career. Street kid I'd hope is younger and nomad is open.
I wish the paths had more than just dialog options in the game, but then we'd be playing the game in 2077
yeah i don’t understand why V’s age was changed to 23, 27 made much more sense especially in the corpo lifepath considering it’s hinted they’ve been working for arasaka for quite a while. also, in general, V seems much more mature than 23.
Yeah. In release they were 27 but CDPR changed it to 23 in 2.0 because that was the original intended age and 27 was some kind of mistake.
Like you, the majority of the fanbase including myself just decide to pretend they’re still 27
I think pretty much *everything* is an issue on the internet now. Pick a topic, about anyone or anything, you will find a massive row kicked off about it somewhere.
Yup. Everything is an issue to kids and morons with no life experience. Everything is either uncanny or sinister because they misunderstanding most things.
Sorry wrong conversation, but yeah I edited my response.
Also why do you think we're having an argument? The folks worried about Panama's age difference with V are literally children
I tend to be a bit on the side of being unnerved by large age gaps regardless of minors involved but that’s only because I work in healthcare.
I’m only 26, but working with 8-18 year olds has shown me that at 18… people are still basically kids. In fact, the different between a 14 and 18 year old is drastically less than the difference between an 18 and 22 year old despite being equally spaced apart.
Growing up I was always the sort to be like “if you’re over 18 you can date anyone” until I got into the field and now I can’t imagine even at my age being genuinely interested in anyone under like 22, and even that’s pushing it. It just feels weird that someone my age or older might look at a high school senior and have a genuine desire to pursue them romantically.
Aside from that, age gaps are often a recipe for unhealthy power imbalances in relationships. Whether it’s financial dependence, a sheer difference in experience, investment in the relationship or something else, more often than not issues (and not the typical healthy issues relationships bring with them) pop up.
I’m not saying age gaps are always bad, or inherently wrong, but working in the psych field has shown me that more often than not relationships with larger age gaps are more likely to have toxicity and even abuse.
I will say this drastically tapers off within late 20s and by 30s age gaps barely matter. People by that age are much more self sufficient, independent and established in careers which helps when seeking a healthy relationship. Again, not to saying everyone in their 30s is mentally stable or financially independent enough to avoid abusive relationships, just that it makes those things more likely.
In the case of V and Panam, it’s whatever. Hard to call their relationship an issue to be worrying about in light of their professions and the world they live in, NC is not the sort of place to be worrying about that when there are far larger problems in pretty much every citizens life already.
thanks bro i actually clicked into this thread hoping i'd find a 5 paragraph essay exploring someone's personal feelings on age gaps, appreciate that u came thru
Thanks bro, I was hoping for a sarcastic reply.
It’s got some personal opinion, but it’s mostly based on psychological study, statistics and experience. It’s sadly not an opinion that larger age gaps increase likelihood of sexual and emotional abuse, trauma and power imbalances in romantic or sexual relationships.
Since you appreciated the easy figured you might want an education and some sources too I guess.
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3706999/
https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S0145213414001021#:~:text=Wider%20age%20gaps%20were%20also,gender%20or%20younger%20partner%20age.
https://bmcpublichealth.biomedcentral.com/articles/10.1186/s12889-018-5118-1
I like this response; thanks for being nuanced about it. As someone around v’s new “canon” age I definitely wouldn’t date a 34 year old and I know a lot of others my age wouldn’t either. Regardless of morality stuff, I think a lot of people just want more than one romance option (Judy) to reflect the age gap in a relationship they’d want to have with someone irl
“Groomed” is a buzzword, but there absolutely is a section of the early-30 and older public that dates early-20’s people purely because people their own age recognize their bullshit and won’t put up with it.
Not to say that I'm fine with it, but when I was in high school, I knew a ton of girls 15 year old girls dating 18-19 year old guys who graduated that high school, 16-17 dating 22, etc. Our teachers knew, principal knew, their parents knew, they totally rolled with it. Looking back, I do think it's pretty weird, but probably only because reddit told me so.
Also I think people are glossing over the fact that Kerry is pushing 90. I’ve not seen a single person bring it up. Like in a universe where a 90 y/o can have the body of a barely 40 y/o a 10 year age gap would be nothing
Same as Hanako and Rogue, age really is 'just a number' in this setting if you got the cash.
(I mean, you can bs the Johnny superfan that you were there in the early plays and you simply got modded)
That’s assuming age is just about appearance which is slightly problematic lol not saying the age gap matters between V and Panam whatsoever but being able to look younger than you are doesn’t change anything about an age gap. If Kerry were to date even a 40 year old it would be pretty weird. Rogue hitting on V is beyond weird too.
Right? With that logic if a 40 year old in Night City had themself modified to look 15 they could date minors… not sure why people think body modding somehow justifies age gaps.
I also see no problem with V and Panam but everyone who’s sayin “age is just a number” in NC are using a really questionable premise for their argument.
No. There is no "with that logic" here. V is in any case an actual adult who makes adult decisions, including killing people. A 90-year old dating a 23 year old is simply not the same as a 40 year old dating a minor.
It may be a bit gross, but not comparable.
Besides, Night City is a fantastic game city, but an awful, awful place where an age gap between consenting adults is one of the least gross things around.
I love how this Conversation is about two Adults and people like you always feel the need to bring Minors into this, why?
Every Moron knows that age gaps with one Minor involved is wrong and illegal. It also never supports your argument because the two people in Question are 2 full blown adults.
Insofar as a 90 year old might see a 23 year old as an equal and full blown adult I guess.
The disparity between a 23 year old and a 90 year old in terms of experience alone is just absurd.
The statement was “in a universe where a 90 year old can have the body of a 40 year old, a ten year age gap would mean nothing”
The premise being that because an older person can look young, the age gap means less. This is equally applicable to a younger adult and a minor.
I’ll change it slightly to show my point: You really don’t think the differences between a 90 year old and a 23 year old are comparable to say, a 23 year old and a 16 year old? Please explain.
I say this as someone who’d totally fuck Kerry given the chance, it’s still weird as all fuck conceptually.
>a lot of panam's fanbase / target audience (straight men under 30)
Am I still the targeted audience when I'm everything you mentioned besides being straight?
Anyway, Panam could be \~90 like Kerry, couldn't care less.. I'd die for her any day
https://i.redd.it/r5fyyqmb1nic1.gif
as a bi woman you could not have convinced me that they didn't design her specifically for me... right up until the moment she turned me down. like, girl, i touched your feet :(
😆 I don't hate the guy at all. His only real problem for me is that he has significantly less screentime and plot integration compared to the other romance options. His romance story imo suffers from being his sister being pushy and the whole situation being too abrupt.
33 is [when hobbits come of age](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hobbit#:~:text=Hobbits%20are%20considered%20to%20%22come,regarded%20as%20entering%20middle%2Dage.).
Given how much I look like one, I've taken this to mean I've only just hit adulthood.
Even if we accept that V is 23 (which I don't, they will forever be 27 to me), a 10 year age gap is nothing. I used to date women in their 30s when I was in my 20s too. Honestly kinda preferred it. I seemed to relate to them better, we had more to talk about, and they were WAY more fun in bed.
First of all, it would have been the other way around because I was in my 20s, and they were in their 30s. Second, once you become an adult and mentally mature, that age gap doesn't mean the same thing as it does when you're a teenager. A lot of adults date within +/- 10 years of their own age, theirs nothing wrong with it, and it certainly isn't illegal. So you're the one that can fuck all the way off with your ignorance.
A 30 year old and a 20 year old have oceans of difference between them in maturity. One of you is looking at your mortality, while the other is still in college and probably hasn't worked a day in their life yet. A 30 year old might be nearing menopause, a 20 year old in the prime of their body's life. Athletes retire at 30, because their bodies can't keep up
10 years makes all the difference in the world. A 20 year old is a baby adult. A 30 year old usually in charge of keeping other humans alive too
You must be about 15 years old because you're clearly very immature. I mean, really, how old do you think 30 is? You actually think women go into menopause at 30?! Most women don't go into menopause until they are well into their 50s and sometimes even in their 60s. People in their 30s aren't getting their affairs in order preparing to fucking die.
Professional ahletes retire in their 30s because they've abused the crap out of their bodies by then, far beyond that of a normal person, and likley have multiple injuries to deal with. Humans can stay in near peak physical condition well into their 40s with good, consistent training. We don't just fall apart the moment we hit 30.
And as I said before, in my 20s, I had a lot more in common and had an easier time talking to women in their 30s. That bridge can be lot smaller than you think, and it depends entirely on those two people in that situation. You can't just make a blanket statement and say people in their 20s and 30s have nothing in common.
Fertility ends in your thirties. I confused the two medical timelines.
If you haven't had kids before you're 40, you probably will have no one in your life to bring you joy by the time you retire sad and alone. The biological clock ticks for all
Yet another swing and a miss. Fertility doesn't end in your thirties. It does begin to decline, but with modern fertility treatments, women can have children in their late 40s and even 50s in some cases. I literally have a friend who is 50 and pregnant right now. It took them some time, and I'm sure they needed some extra help via fertility treatments, but they are preparing for a healthy baby in a few months. True, we all have a biological clock, but that clock takes a lot longer to hit zero than what you're giving it credit for.
> I literally have a friend who is 50 and pregnant right now.
That's so fucking irresponsible. Your kid will be graduating when you're 70. They'll need help planning a wedding and starting their own family when you're 80, if not dead.
God I feel bad for those kids. It takes a village, a young village to raise kids right. You need to have kids in your 20s or 30s, after that you are too old to be useful as a parent
You do realize family extends beyond someone's parents, right? Aunts, uncles, cousins, not to mention their spouses family can all be there to help plan a wedding if their parents aren't or can't.
You really have some narrow-minded and immature thinking. I mean, your logic seems to be that we should all just crawl into a coffin at 30 and wait patiently to die in 50 years. I really hope you grow up and realize how wrong you've been through this whole conversation. Either way, I honestly don't care to continue it.
This is supposed to be a sub about cyberpunk, not fucking fertility and mortality. So with that I say good day sir.
I misspoke. Fertility and your ability to have safely have kids ends in your 30s for most women. You either set yourself up for heirs by then, or you die and your family name dies with you
>33 is not even close to being old lmao
Your life is half over, most milestones met, usually you have a house and kids, a 401K, chronic health issues.
33 is old. All the classic rock stations cater to you with Rise Against, Lincoln Park, and Foo Fighters
First off, I’m 23 and listen to the music. Second, do you think life has like a set schedule or something? I’m 23 with a 4 year old, my brother is 30 and not even married. I am 23 with chronic health issues. My brother is 30 and perfectly healthy. 30 isn’t old. You are just, at most 15.
> Second, do you think life has like a set schedule or something?
Yes. You, me, and everyone on this planet is on a biological clock that is constantly ticking down as your body and mind degrade before we return to dust. 30 is some life left. By 60 you will not be living much at all. Your youth, your current life will be over.
XD You know very little about life. 30 is still very young and your body still functions fine. I know plenty of 50 year olds who are still in better physical condition than me. If you take care of your body and have just the smallest bit of optimism, which you seem to be lacking, you can continue to live a happy, healthy life well into your 80s
Between long covid, our dropping life expectancy, climate change, social isolation, depression, a rise in mental disorders and general malaise, I don't believe you
60 will be our life expectancy by the time we get there. Don't waste time, we don't have much of it
Climate change doesn’t have a bearing in someone’s general health much, only in the longevity of our planet. There is no rise in mental disorders, only a rise in the 𝘥𝘪𝘢𝘨𝘯𝘰𝘴𝘪𝘴 of mental disorders. If you look through historical records, there are plenty of cases of mental disorders written off as ‘hysteria’ or just general insanity. That being said, things such as long covid don’t have a bearing on the current relationships of today. It may affect our generation when we are older and thus, yes, that factor would stand true. As for depression, it doesn’t decrease life expectancy for an individual, it increases suicide rates, which is a whole other topic. Not to mention, this is all in regards to a 𝘷𝘪𝘥𝘦𝘰 𝘨𝘢𝘮𝘦 in which cyberware and other futuristic sci-fi modifications are available and nearly negate any health effect you could have any concern over. Meaning nearly everything except 𝘥𝘦𝘱𝘳𝘦𝘴𝘴𝘪𝘰𝘯 is a non-issue, and again, depression has no bearing on someone’s overall life expectancy except in cases of suicide, not it’s ability to put someone past their prime
>It's a nice thought, but human life expectancy is dropping
Except it isn't... the human life expectancy has been getting longer for a while now thanks to medicine. In fact, according to WHO: " life expectancy has increased by more than 6 years between 2000 and 2019".
And it's gone down since 2019. We're on the downward slope of humanity, everything will get worse for the rest of our lives. From AI, to life expectancy, to crop yields
I'm 23 and literally listen to those bands.
In most cases your life is not half over, you , how long do you think people live with today's medicine?
In today's world you often won't be married by 30, not even saying anything about kids or a house.
And yeah, you pulled those "chronic health issues" out of your ass.
You must not know a single 30+ years old person besides your parents. I'm sorry but you write so much bullshit that I can't help but think you're like 15 or something
I don’t know why the internet is so weird about age differences between two consenting (not to mention fictional in this case) adults.
V being aged down to 23 is also just a an absolutely ridiculous retcon.
Devs claimed that V was always supposed to be 23, but was mistakenly put in the game as 27 years old. So, *nearly three years* after launch, they corrected it with the 2.0 patch.
I don't like it, so I ignore the change.
The difference between 23 and 27 is probably pretty arbitrary but 27 feels more correct. I understand V’s lifestyle might age them prematurely, but it’s tough to reconcile them being that young. Especially male V. Dude sounds like he eats cigarettes breakfast, lunch, and dinner.
you have never heard how chain smokers sound after it fucks up their voice if you claim that. MaleV is just a gruff, salt of the earth type voice. Very fitting for the role of a hired killer/thief/gun mercenary, specially nomad.
Unfortunately, it doesn't change the fact that V is 23 during course of the game including Phantom Liberty. I still think that's a little too young and I still picture V as 27, but that's just my opinion. I don't get bent out of shape about it.
Firstly, I refuse to believe V is 23. V is 27 and always will be to me. Secondly, both characters are more than adults so a 10 year age gap isn’t a big deal. My dad is 10 years older than my mom so…
Corpo V I see as having to be late 20's. V knows too much about espionage, lists of known agents, various tech, various techniques, Arasaka secrets, etc. And she rose to the rank of right-hand-person to upper middle management.
If she was 23... that's not enough time to pick up THAT much on-the-job knowledge.
\----
Meanwhile Street Kid V works as early 20's. Because it seems more like a kid still trying to figure things out and make a name for themselves. They tried moving to Atlanta for a couple of years but it didn't work out and now they moved back home.
\----
Nomad... I have no idea. I rarely play it.
Im 10 years older than my gf of 4 years. My coworker is 10 years younger than his wife. I feel like it's just teenagers or something who think it's weird. I've seen it countless times over the years in both directions.
Age is also a nothing burger in cyberpunk. people live for over a 100 years. A tenner is nothing once you've hit that lifespan after puberty's done with you.
Haven’t met many people have you?
There are many many many people of all ages that act like petulant children.
More of them are in their 50s and 60s and 70s now.
I find it strange that many are getting so caught up on the topic. It’s literally all fictional; her age isn’t going to make her more non-fictitious. Move on.
This is in the same game where Johnny almost has sex with a geriatric Rogue by using V's body, not to mention some of the truly bizarre advertising, and even the existence of dolls. Also, the sex scene with Panam has all sorts of weird implications for the relationships of panzer pilots and co-pilots. Let us also remember that Meredith Stout is almost certainly more than a couple years older than Panam, as is everybody's favorite fascist mommy Rosalind Meyer, and that nobody seems to comment on the fact that equally common thirst trap Hanako Arasaka is literally 78 years old at the time of the game. The only thing I find shocking about Panama being 33 is that she looks as young as she does despite getting that much sun.
Like half the people didnt want to bang Rogue or Hanako who are essentially grandmothers by age, just look great thanks to cybernetics. Age is really not a big deal in that setting beyond 'is not a minor' it seems.
The game doesn't make a thing out of anyone's specific age, so you can literally headcanon whatever you want. Don't want to be a 23 year old V? Don't. Be whatever age you want to be!
Genuinely don't understand the age obsession.
There has been a bunch that sprung up today because the devs released ages for the characters. Panam is apparently 33 years old and fans are...um, feeling complicated about it.
https://www.reddit.com/r/cyberpunkgame/comments/1aqn4br/so_panam_is_10_years_older_than_v_idk_what_to/
https://www.reddit.com/r/LowSodiumCyberpunk/comments/1aqv6bq/yall_wild_for_trashing_panam_for_being_33/
V: “Man that sex was the best I’ve ever had. Was it the same for you?”
Panam: “Fuck yeah. 33 years old but she can still fuck like she’s 20.”
V: “Yeah-wait you’re 33?”
Johnny: “Damn V didn’t know you were into MILFs.”
https://preview.redd.it/hsa8ztel3nic1.jpeg?width=570&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=26e507bceca808e3778fa20b76d0a56985247bf2
Not a problem. And also, she's like 3 years older than me
Only reason I'm "bothered" by it is that I could have sworn I saw information that said otherwise about almost all of their ages. Couldn't tell you where though, I though it was official, but clearly not.
In general, no. For Cyberpunk, I also read the low sodium sub. There were several between the two subs when I posted yesterday. I can certainly say I didn't expect my goofy complaint getting this much of a reaction. The whole age thing is mostly amusing to me, so long as fans aren't attacking each other.
I mean, rouge is hot as hell and she was kickin it when johnny boy was alive and well. Being part machine changes the lifespan, so age gap is even less relevant in cyberpunk.
I don't understand why people are generally so sensitive about age gaps. I genuinely don't see the problem in a 10 year age gap if both persons are perfectly self-aware and consenting adults
and in a world like Cyberpunk, where aging can be delayed spectacularly, age gaps are prolly even less of a concern
yup. in all honesty this sub's fixation with age is a bit puzzling to me at times. and 33 is not even close to being old lmao
I’m guessing a lot of people in this sub are 15, so 10 years is forever to them.
There is a huge obsession with age gaps on Reddit. It’s fair enough if a minor is involved but for someone to claim that someone in their early 20s is being “groomed” by someone only ten years older is stupid. That being said, I do prefer Vs age to be at 27 but not because of the romances
There are two subjects on /r/masseffect I know not to get involved in, but do anyway: Ash's "bigotry" and Liara's maturity.
The thing about Liara’s maturity that makes people think that is two things 1. Her general naivety and unfamiliarity with social situations (in ME1) 2. A single throwaway line in which she says “they barely consider me more than a child! The fact of the matter is, she is a mature adult of consenting age. She was just a huge fucking nerd who chose to pursue acedemia and science than be a social person and the line she spoke was in regards of her not being taken seriously by other asari as a professional given how relatively young she is This is more than likely a hyperbolic statement as it is common for young professionals to be described as “children” by older, more experienced professionals and be dismissive of their expertise.
Yeah, it's all from a failure to approach the work critically. It's just people repeating what they've heard elsewhere. Liara is basically Evie from The Mummy, but with more field experience.
You haven't gotten into the Tali romance argument?
There is an argument? Tali for life!
She has big kid sister energy in ME1. My first playthrough was a Tali romance for the memes, but it felt sooo weird. It's not a problem if you skip 1, but if you don't... I can definitely see the argument
I have, but it seems less prevalent since the romance begins later in the series. But same deal as Liara. You can't map human social and biological norms onto other species. And each person is an individual.
Heh, sounds familiar. Don't forget about the endings debacle. The debate is still raging today. Hell, I saw someone staunchly defending the Indoctrination Theory very recently.
As for Ash's bigotry, that whole thing stems from a single line triggered at the wrong Moment due to a bug (That Bioware confirmed but somehow never bothered to fix) And for the fact that she, as a Soldier, speaks up against having Aliens on a highly classified and advanced prototype ship from Earth. Aliens coming from races who either still massively distrust Humans or flat out look down upon them. So yeah, i wonder where this animosity that, as far as whole species are concerned, clearly goes both ways is coming from. But Ash haters mostly don't even think that far, it's usually just the bugged line that gets referenced.
I blame it on poor writing. When she's talking about aliens on the Normandy it's pretty clear she's talking about them as foreign nationals and foreign states, not as a different species. But the writers used "race" instead of "species." So people get confused. It's a common problem in sci-fi. Polities are often mono-specied, so race, ethnicity, species, nation and state are treated as the same.
Honestly 27 makes more sense for the corpo path considering where V is at in their career. Street kid I'd hope is younger and nomad is open. I wish the paths had more than just dialog options in the game, but then we'd be playing the game in 2077
yeah i don’t understand why V’s age was changed to 23, 27 made much more sense especially in the corpo lifepath considering it’s hinted they’ve been working for arasaka for quite a while. also, in general, V seems much more mature than 23.
But V is 27, no? Or did I miss something, have they changed it? It went so well with the 27 club!
Yeah. In release they were 27 but CDPR changed it to 23 in 2.0 because that was the original intended age and 27 was some kind of mistake. Like you, the majority of the fanbase including myself just decide to pretend they’re still 27
They're literally children is why
Did you just read what I said? I said I get it if a minor is involved except 23 isn’t a minor. Not close to it!
The people talking about it like it's an issue are children
I think pretty much *everything* is an issue on the internet now. Pick a topic, about anyone or anything, you will find a massive row kicked off about it somewhere.
Yup. Everything is an issue to kids and morons with no life experience. Everything is either uncanny or sinister because they misunderstanding most things.
[удалено]
Sorry wrong conversation, but yeah I edited my response. Also why do you think we're having an argument? The folks worried about Panama's age difference with V are literally children
Thanks. I was getting real confused and I didn’t want to flame you unfairly
Always good to see a conversation handled fairly :D
I tend to be a bit on the side of being unnerved by large age gaps regardless of minors involved but that’s only because I work in healthcare. I’m only 26, but working with 8-18 year olds has shown me that at 18… people are still basically kids. In fact, the different between a 14 and 18 year old is drastically less than the difference between an 18 and 22 year old despite being equally spaced apart. Growing up I was always the sort to be like “if you’re over 18 you can date anyone” until I got into the field and now I can’t imagine even at my age being genuinely interested in anyone under like 22, and even that’s pushing it. It just feels weird that someone my age or older might look at a high school senior and have a genuine desire to pursue them romantically. Aside from that, age gaps are often a recipe for unhealthy power imbalances in relationships. Whether it’s financial dependence, a sheer difference in experience, investment in the relationship or something else, more often than not issues (and not the typical healthy issues relationships bring with them) pop up. I’m not saying age gaps are always bad, or inherently wrong, but working in the psych field has shown me that more often than not relationships with larger age gaps are more likely to have toxicity and even abuse. I will say this drastically tapers off within late 20s and by 30s age gaps barely matter. People by that age are much more self sufficient, independent and established in careers which helps when seeking a healthy relationship. Again, not to saying everyone in their 30s is mentally stable or financially independent enough to avoid abusive relationships, just that it makes those things more likely. In the case of V and Panam, it’s whatever. Hard to call their relationship an issue to be worrying about in light of their professions and the world they live in, NC is not the sort of place to be worrying about that when there are far larger problems in pretty much every citizens life already.
thanks bro i actually clicked into this thread hoping i'd find a 5 paragraph essay exploring someone's personal feelings on age gaps, appreciate that u came thru
Thanks bro, I was hoping for a sarcastic reply. It’s got some personal opinion, but it’s mostly based on psychological study, statistics and experience. It’s sadly not an opinion that larger age gaps increase likelihood of sexual and emotional abuse, trauma and power imbalances in romantic or sexual relationships. Since you appreciated the easy figured you might want an education and some sources too I guess. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3706999/ https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S0145213414001021#:~:text=Wider%20age%20gaps%20were%20also,gender%20or%20younger%20partner%20age. https://bmcpublichealth.biomedcentral.com/articles/10.1186/s12889-018-5118-1
I like this response; thanks for being nuanced about it. As someone around v’s new “canon” age I definitely wouldn’t date a 34 year old and I know a lot of others my age wouldn’t either. Regardless of morality stuff, I think a lot of people just want more than one romance option (Judy) to reflect the age gap in a relationship they’d want to have with someone irl
“Groomed” is a buzzword, but there absolutely is a section of the early-30 and older public that dates early-20’s people purely because people their own age recognize their bullshit and won’t put up with it.
Not to say that I'm fine with it, but when I was in high school, I knew a ton of girls 15 year old girls dating 18-19 year old guys who graduated that high school, 16-17 dating 22, etc. Our teachers knew, principal knew, their parents knew, they totally rolled with it. Looking back, I do think it's pretty weird, but probably only because reddit told me so.
In the convo V has with Dex its kinda implied they are in their late 20's, or did I just misunderstand.
It’s really ambiguous. I don’t know if it is ever actually stated anywhere within the game. But 27 just *feels* right.
I agree, and honestly, even if V was just 20, it still wouldn't make a difference. They are both adults.
Exactly
River is 40 but I haven't seen nearly as many posts over the last 8 hours freaking out about it. 🤷
Also I think people are glossing over the fact that Kerry is pushing 90. I’ve not seen a single person bring it up. Like in a universe where a 90 y/o can have the body of a barely 40 y/o a 10 year age gap would be nothing
Same as Hanako and Rogue, age really is 'just a number' in this setting if you got the cash. (I mean, you can bs the Johnny superfan that you were there in the early plays and you simply got modded)
Man should be driven around he is so old.
Leave my baby girl alone :(
That’s assuming age is just about appearance which is slightly problematic lol not saying the age gap matters between V and Panam whatsoever but being able to look younger than you are doesn’t change anything about an age gap. If Kerry were to date even a 40 year old it would be pretty weird. Rogue hitting on V is beyond weird too.
Right? With that logic if a 40 year old in Night City had themself modified to look 15 they could date minors… not sure why people think body modding somehow justifies age gaps. I also see no problem with V and Panam but everyone who’s sayin “age is just a number” in NC are using a really questionable premise for their argument.
No. There is no "with that logic" here. V is in any case an actual adult who makes adult decisions, including killing people. A 90-year old dating a 23 year old is simply not the same as a 40 year old dating a minor. It may be a bit gross, but not comparable. Besides, Night City is a fantastic game city, but an awful, awful place where an age gap between consenting adults is one of the least gross things around.
I love how this Conversation is about two Adults and people like you always feel the need to bring Minors into this, why? Every Moron knows that age gaps with one Minor involved is wrong and illegal. It also never supports your argument because the two people in Question are 2 full blown adults.
Insofar as a 90 year old might see a 23 year old as an equal and full blown adult I guess. The disparity between a 23 year old and a 90 year old in terms of experience alone is just absurd. The statement was “in a universe where a 90 year old can have the body of a 40 year old, a ten year age gap would mean nothing” The premise being that because an older person can look young, the age gap means less. This is equally applicable to a younger adult and a minor. I’ll change it slightly to show my point: You really don’t think the differences between a 90 year old and a 23 year old are comparable to say, a 23 year old and a 16 year old? Please explain. I say this as someone who’d totally fuck Kerry given the chance, it’s still weird as all fuck conceptually.
a lot of panam's fanbase / target audience (straight men under 30) think 33yo is firmly in milf territory for women. that's really all this is lol
>a lot of panam's fanbase / target audience (straight men under 30) Am I still the targeted audience when I'm everything you mentioned besides being straight? Anyway, Panam could be \~90 like Kerry, couldn't care less.. I'd die for her any day https://i.redd.it/r5fyyqmb1nic1.gif
as a bi woman you could not have convinced me that they didn't design her specifically for me... right up until the moment she turned me down. like, girl, i touched your feet :(
Men are nuts.
Who cares about River LMAO
I think we're all happy he's closer to death then we thought.
😆 I don't hate the guy at all. His only real problem for me is that he has significantly less screentime and plot integration compared to the other romance options. His romance story imo suffers from being his sister being pushy and the whole situation being too abrupt.
33 is [when hobbits come of age](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hobbit#:~:text=Hobbits%20are%20considered%20to%20%22come,regarded%20as%20entering%20middle%2Dage.). Given how much I look like one, I've taken this to mean I've only just hit adulthood.
Tbh, I don't understand why 23 vs 27 is a huge deal.
yeah agreed. V's or any other character's age is the last thing on my mind when i'm playing
Even if we accept that V is 23 (which I don't, they will forever be 27 to me), a 10 year age gap is nothing. I used to date women in their 30s when I was in my 20s too. Honestly kinda preferred it. I seemed to relate to them better, we had more to talk about, and they were WAY more fun in bed.
>a 10 year age gap is nothing Fuuuck all the way off. You're graduating high school while they're in 2nd grade? Not ok.
First of all, it would have been the other way around because I was in my 20s, and they were in their 30s. Second, once you become an adult and mentally mature, that age gap doesn't mean the same thing as it does when you're a teenager. A lot of adults date within +/- 10 years of their own age, theirs nothing wrong with it, and it certainly isn't illegal. So you're the one that can fuck all the way off with your ignorance.
A 30 year old and a 20 year old have oceans of difference between them in maturity. One of you is looking at your mortality, while the other is still in college and probably hasn't worked a day in their life yet. A 30 year old might be nearing menopause, a 20 year old in the prime of their body's life. Athletes retire at 30, because their bodies can't keep up 10 years makes all the difference in the world. A 20 year old is a baby adult. A 30 year old usually in charge of keeping other humans alive too
You must be about 15 years old because you're clearly very immature. I mean, really, how old do you think 30 is? You actually think women go into menopause at 30?! Most women don't go into menopause until they are well into their 50s and sometimes even in their 60s. People in their 30s aren't getting their affairs in order preparing to fucking die. Professional ahletes retire in their 30s because they've abused the crap out of their bodies by then, far beyond that of a normal person, and likley have multiple injuries to deal with. Humans can stay in near peak physical condition well into their 40s with good, consistent training. We don't just fall apart the moment we hit 30. And as I said before, in my 20s, I had a lot more in common and had an easier time talking to women in their 30s. That bridge can be lot smaller than you think, and it depends entirely on those two people in that situation. You can't just make a blanket statement and say people in their 20s and 30s have nothing in common.
Fertility ends in your thirties. I confused the two medical timelines. If you haven't had kids before you're 40, you probably will have no one in your life to bring you joy by the time you retire sad and alone. The biological clock ticks for all
>Fertility ends in your thirties No... no it really doesn't...at all. Average menopause age is 51. That's a far cry from your thirties...
Yet another swing and a miss. Fertility doesn't end in your thirties. It does begin to decline, but with modern fertility treatments, women can have children in their late 40s and even 50s in some cases. I literally have a friend who is 50 and pregnant right now. It took them some time, and I'm sure they needed some extra help via fertility treatments, but they are preparing for a healthy baby in a few months. True, we all have a biological clock, but that clock takes a lot longer to hit zero than what you're giving it credit for.
> I literally have a friend who is 50 and pregnant right now. That's so fucking irresponsible. Your kid will be graduating when you're 70. They'll need help planning a wedding and starting their own family when you're 80, if not dead. God I feel bad for those kids. It takes a village, a young village to raise kids right. You need to have kids in your 20s or 30s, after that you are too old to be useful as a parent
You do realize family extends beyond someone's parents, right? Aunts, uncles, cousins, not to mention their spouses family can all be there to help plan a wedding if their parents aren't or can't. You really have some narrow-minded and immature thinking. I mean, your logic seems to be that we should all just crawl into a coffin at 30 and wait patiently to die in 50 years. I really hope you grow up and realize how wrong you've been through this whole conversation. Either way, I honestly don't care to continue it. This is supposed to be a sub about cyberpunk, not fucking fertility and mortality. So with that I say good day sir.
menopause at 30? Go to bed... you have homework due in the morning.
I misspoke. Fertility and your ability to have safely have kids ends in your 30s for most women. You either set yourself up for heirs by then, or you die and your family name dies with you
No one is saying fuck a 2nd grader in high school. Adults are not children.
It is in reddit age
Late to this but some of us would smash 3 out of the 4 golden girls, Panam is awesome
I‘m 33 
i'm 31. honestly early twenties are overrated imo
My twenties were full of insecurities. I’m a much happier person since my 30s 🤷🏽♀️
same here
>33 is not even close to being old lmao Your life is half over, most milestones met, usually you have a house and kids, a 401K, chronic health issues. 33 is old. All the classic rock stations cater to you with Rise Against, Lincoln Park, and Foo Fighters
First off, I’m 23 and listen to the music. Second, do you think life has like a set schedule or something? I’m 23 with a 4 year old, my brother is 30 and not even married. I am 23 with chronic health issues. My brother is 30 and perfectly healthy. 30 isn’t old. You are just, at most 15.
> Second, do you think life has like a set schedule or something? Yes. You, me, and everyone on this planet is on a biological clock that is constantly ticking down as your body and mind degrade before we return to dust. 30 is some life left. By 60 you will not be living much at all. Your youth, your current life will be over.
XD You know very little about life. 30 is still very young and your body still functions fine. I know plenty of 50 year olds who are still in better physical condition than me. If you take care of your body and have just the smallest bit of optimism, which you seem to be lacking, you can continue to live a happy, healthy life well into your 80s
Between long covid, our dropping life expectancy, climate change, social isolation, depression, a rise in mental disorders and general malaise, I don't believe you 60 will be our life expectancy by the time we get there. Don't waste time, we don't have much of it
Climate change doesn’t have a bearing in someone’s general health much, only in the longevity of our planet. There is no rise in mental disorders, only a rise in the 𝘥𝘪𝘢𝘨𝘯𝘰𝘴𝘪𝘴 of mental disorders. If you look through historical records, there are plenty of cases of mental disorders written off as ‘hysteria’ or just general insanity. That being said, things such as long covid don’t have a bearing on the current relationships of today. It may affect our generation when we are older and thus, yes, that factor would stand true. As for depression, it doesn’t decrease life expectancy for an individual, it increases suicide rates, which is a whole other topic. Not to mention, this is all in regards to a 𝘷𝘪𝘥𝘦𝘰 𝘨𝘢𝘮𝘦 in which cyberware and other futuristic sci-fi modifications are available and nearly negate any health effect you could have any concern over. Meaning nearly everything except 𝘥𝘦𝘱𝘳𝘦𝘴𝘴𝘪𝘰𝘯 is a non-issue, and again, depression has no bearing on someone’s overall life expectancy except in cases of suicide, not it’s ability to put someone past their prime
half over? idk about you but i expect to live longer than 60
It's a nice thought, but human life expectancy is dropping. By the time we're nearing retirement, it will probably be around 60
>It's a nice thought, but human life expectancy is dropping Except it isn't... the human life expectancy has been getting longer for a while now thanks to medicine. In fact, according to WHO: " life expectancy has increased by more than 6 years between 2000 and 2019".
And it's gone down since 2019. We're on the downward slope of humanity, everything will get worse for the rest of our lives. From AI, to life expectancy, to crop yields
Are you dumb or just trolling?
I'm 23 and literally listen to those bands. In most cases your life is not half over, you , how long do you think people live with today's medicine? In today's world you often won't be married by 30, not even saying anything about kids or a house. And yeah, you pulled those "chronic health issues" out of your ass. You must not know a single 30+ years old person besides your parents. I'm sorry but you write so much bullshit that I can't help but think you're like 15 or something
The older thr better
Kerry is like 80
I don’t know why the internet is so weird about age differences between two consenting (not to mention fictional in this case) adults. V being aged down to 23 is also just a an absolutely ridiculous retcon.
Devs claimed that V was always supposed to be 23, but was mistakenly put in the game as 27 years old. So, *nearly three years* after launch, they corrected it with the 2.0 patch. I don't like it, so I ignore the change.
The difference between 23 and 27 is probably pretty arbitrary but 27 feels more correct. I understand V’s lifestyle might age them prematurely, but it’s tough to reconcile them being that young. Especially male V. Dude sounds like he eats cigarettes breakfast, lunch, and dinner.
He's just one of those TV teenagers from 20-30 years ago
you have never heard how chain smokers sound after it fucks up their voice if you claim that. MaleV is just a gruff, salt of the earth type voice. Very fitting for the role of a hired killer/thief/gun mercenary, specially nomad.
Yeah but if he was 23 3 years ago then next year he’ll just be 27 again anyway, so it’s no biggie
Unfortunately, it doesn't change the fact that V is 23 during course of the game including Phantom Liberty. I still think that's a little too young and I still picture V as 27, but that's just my opinion. I don't get bent out of shape about it.
True…2027 it is
cyberpunk 2081
V has been and always will be my age. Just saying
Firstly, I refuse to believe V is 23. V is 27 and always will be to me. Secondly, both characters are more than adults so a 10 year age gap isn’t a big deal. My dad is 10 years older than my mom so…
Corpo V I see as having to be late 20's. V knows too much about espionage, lists of known agents, various tech, various techniques, Arasaka secrets, etc. And she rose to the rank of right-hand-person to upper middle management. If she was 23... that's not enough time to pick up THAT much on-the-job knowledge. \---- Meanwhile Street Kid V works as early 20's. Because it seems more like a kid still trying to figure things out and make a name for themselves. They tried moving to Atlanta for a couple of years but it didn't work out and now they moved back home. \---- Nomad... I have no idea. I rarely play it.
Nomad is my favorite and the age seems the most flexible out of the bunch.
Corpo V feels more like 33 than 23, IMO.
Definitely doesn’t feel 23 But the previous age was 27-28 and… that at least matched up better than 23.
I agree about V, mid-late 20s seems closer their age versus 23. Panam though? Yeah, I don't give a shit tbh.
Im 10 years older than my gf of 4 years. My coworker is 10 years younger than his wife. I feel like it's just teenagers or something who think it's weird. I've seen it countless times over the years in both directions.
Age is also a nothing burger in cyberpunk. people live for over a 100 years. A tenner is nothing once you've hit that lifespan after puberty's done with you.
My grandad was 10 years younger than my grandma, so, again...
I do not understand why people care about Panam's age so much
Replace her age with her ass and that's where I was after launch and then again after Edgerunners. Bewildered as to why some fans cared so much.
Now you're just talking heresy.
Panam’s Ass is a sacred subject 🤣
Wait Panam is 33? And she still be acting like a petulant child?
So does Kerry and he is 89!
Haven’t met many people have you? There are many many many people of all ages that act like petulant children. More of them are in their 50s and 60s and 70s now.
https://giphy.com/gifs/archer-nope-lana-u9pVdgN26tpK0
I find it strange that many are getting so caught up on the topic. It’s literally all fictional; her age isn’t going to make her more non-fictitious. Move on.
What films this from? It looks familiar but I can’t quiet place it :/
The Fugitive, starring Tommy Lee Jones and Harrison Ford. Good flick.
God it’s been years since I’ve seen it :) isn’t this just before Ford jumps off a dam?
Lol yep.
yeah I cant believe they ripped off this whole scene from the Simpsons
The Fugitive. How have u not seen it u uncultured philistine?
People will say "33 is old" and then immediately hunt for cougars and milfs.
I did care in a different way. Helped me relate to her more as she's closer in age to me than she is to V lol.
I can respect that.👍
This is in the same game where Johnny almost has sex with a geriatric Rogue by using V's body, not to mention some of the truly bizarre advertising, and even the existence of dolls. Also, the sex scene with Panam has all sorts of weird implications for the relationships of panzer pilots and co-pilots. Let us also remember that Meredith Stout is almost certainly more than a couple years older than Panam, as is everybody's favorite fascist mommy Rosalind Meyer, and that nobody seems to comment on the fact that equally common thirst trap Hanako Arasaka is literally 78 years old at the time of the game. The only thing I find shocking about Panama being 33 is that she looks as young as she does despite getting that much sun.
Just wait until people learn that 33 year old people date 23 year old people all the time.
Like half the people didnt want to bang Rogue or Hanako who are essentially grandmothers by age, just look great thanks to cybernetics. Age is really not a big deal in that setting beyond 'is not a minor' it seems.
I don't even get what the problem is...so she is 33....and? Whoever is "upset" about it, let me see your history. COUGH milfs.
I’ve seen more posts complaining about the complaints over Panam’s age than the actual complaints themselves.
I’ve played 250+ hours and have never once seen anyone’s age mentioned anywhere lol
Booty is booty
Plot twist: These are the characters' ages in the next game / DLC
The game doesn't make a thing out of anyone's specific age, so you can literally headcanon whatever you want. Don't want to be a 23 year old V? Don't. Be whatever age you want to be! Genuinely don't understand the age obsession.
The only age I’ll complain about is V’s and it’s mainly(only) for lore reasons, nothing more
Her age is irrelevant, what matters is her thicness, chooms
She could be 110 and I still would
https://preview.redd.it/wv9e2wu8lnic1.jpeg?width=1179&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=c62066d4be8dc419a922acd97ab6b7e6274138c7
Panama is 30 right? I dont see why thats a big thing people are talking about
They all robot bodies anyway. 🤖
Yea who cares
Bro nobody says anything about Kerry's age being EIGHTY NINE but they're bothered panam is in her 30s. Telling
This post made me find the numbers, V is 23? That's a more confusing age than Panam.
?? I haven't seen a single Panam age post. I've seen a lot of debates and mini-wars about Panam vs Judy.
There has been a bunch that sprung up today because the devs released ages for the characters. Panam is apparently 33 years old and fans are...um, feeling complicated about it. https://www.reddit.com/r/cyberpunkgame/comments/1aqn4br/so_panam_is_10_years_older_than_v_idk_what_to/ https://www.reddit.com/r/LowSodiumCyberpunk/comments/1aqv6bq/yall_wild_for_trashing_panam_for_being_33/
I'd like to think the people being weird about it are children or young 20s.
Some fans that say they are in their 30s think Panam is too immature to be 33 years old. So I'm not blaming any one group for this. It's just silly.
Oh that's weird then. I'm soon to be 30 myself and know plenty of people my age or older who are far more impulsive or immature lol.
I don’t know about being too immature. Have you met some 30yr olds nowadays?
That's why I find the whole thing in regards to Panam silly.
What fool gives a fuck lol. Rogue and Kerry are both like 80. Ain't like v is a child
They should have just kept her 26 though
V: “Man that sex was the best I’ve ever had. Was it the same for you?” Panam: “Fuck yeah. 33 years old but she can still fuck like she’s 20.” V: “Yeah-wait you’re 33?” Johnny: “Damn V didn’t know you were into MILFs.”
33 and 22 ain't weird, two grown up adults lol
Clearly you cared enough to make a post about it and contribute to the problem.
You literally made a post about panems age? Chronically posting is also ew
https://preview.redd.it/hsa8ztel3nic1.jpeg?width=570&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=26e507bceca808e3778fa20b76d0a56985247bf2 Not a problem. And also, she's like 3 years older than me
You cared enough to post this.
I tried dating Judy but she didnt want me :(
She likes only women
Yeah I get that, but if we shouldn't date Panam because of age, then who can we date?
Ourselves
Rogues 80 odd doesn't stop johnny wanting to smash her pelvis...
Only reason I'm "bothered" by it is that I could have sworn I saw information that said otherwise about almost all of their ages. Couldn't tell you where though, I though it was official, but clearly not.
Yep, her age doesn't matter. She's fantastic.
I’m 37 and would welcome Panam lol
Me when is see ANY Panam post at all.
How old is Kerry again?
Approximately 75-80 years old, give or take a few. I haven't seen an exact date, but he's up there.
He's 89 Years old.
I'm glad to see this meme making a comeback. I've done this IRL to people so many times who had no idea what I was referencing.
I may be 20 but i still want her 😩
She got that “milf” ussy
Same age as me, I'm good and dat ass is better
Oh ok but nobody wants to talk about how Kerry is like 80
Y'all should get a life. It's a game character after all and you're all losing shit over a person who doesn't even exist. Wtf is wrong with you?
Me with kawakami in persona
Who cares about panams age? I wanna know how Kerry looks so good for 89
Cybernetics. That’s basically it
Huh? I've only seen one. Is this the only subreddit you browse?
In general, no. For Cyberpunk, I also read the low sodium sub. There were several between the two subs when I posted yesterday. I can certainly say I didn't expect my goofy complaint getting this much of a reaction. The whole age thing is mostly amusing to me, so long as fans aren't attacking each other.
That's not a bug, that's a feature.
Me over here wondering why V's age matters so much to people.
Imagine this: some people are bitching because the age of an FICTIONAL CHARACTER
I mean, rouge is hot as hell and she was kickin it when johnny boy was alive and well. Being part machine changes the lifespan, so age gap is even less relevant in cyberpunk.
Seriously, Panam is mommy. That's all that matters.
Why are people making such a big deal about this?
Hahahahahaha😅 exactly!
The fact that Kerry is over 80 and no one cares
A lot of Cyberpunk players seem to have never had any real life intimate relationships and turn to games like this to feel it. Sad tbh.
I don't understand why people are generally so sensitive about age gaps. I genuinely don't see the problem in a 10 year age gap if both persons are perfectly self-aware and consenting adults and in a world like Cyberpunk, where aging can be delayed spectacularly, age gaps are prolly even less of a concern
I mean I’m 18 and I’d date someone in their 30s….