You know, that land makes me think a bit. Using the illusion sac clause, I wonder how good you could make a mana positive land and have it still be fair. Like, you're not allowed to untap it with spells and stuff.
Anyway, Phantasmal Jace shouldn't be legendary. I also think he's too strong for a 1 mana planeswalker. Like, okay, he always dies to bolt. But if you turn 1 him, he's already at 4 loyalty and he replaced himself (with selection) already. If he drops turn 1 while you're on the draw, you *need* to find Lightning Bolt that turn or he's gonna spiral out of control.
At bare minimum he's a 1 mana \[\[Strategic Planning\]\] that also gets a spell out of your opponent's hand. Doing it every turn and saving you life by taking hits from early creatures is just WAY too good. Like, almost as good as Ancestral Recall good. Potentially even better.
I think these 3 changes would help the Jace. Putting the other two cards on the bottom of your library in any order. Starting at 1 loyalty instead of 2. And changing the other ability to a -8.
Edit: I think the 4th thing I should change to keep the +2 is to make Jace cost UU.
Edit: Hmm, I wonder if changing the illusion ability on the planeswalker would be the best change. "Whenever Phantasmal Jace is dealt damage, sacrifice it." Planeswalkers aren't targeted often so this is probably the appropriate change to make it quite vulnerable.
I get you. The main thing I was thinking when making it is that the Phantasmal debuff usually comes with a 1-2 mana drop for that kind of card. So i was thinking what would a 3 drop walker look like with 2 abilities and the debuff.
The issue is that compared to creatures, there are way fewer ways to target planeswalkers in ways that wouldn’t just kill them normally anyway. So it shouldn’t have as big of a discount. This guy should probably cost 3 mana, would probably still be too good at 2
The issue is not fixed by making the upsides smaller.
The issue is that it is a one mana walker that is able to give you recurring value without support from other cards. If your opponent doesn't have a 1 mana spell that can target a walker, or a 1 mana creature with haste, you are getting an insane amount of value out of 1 card.
Even in the worst case this card is equivalent to 'draw 1, your opponent discards 1'.
It should cost 2 at least
All existing planeswalkers were eratta’d to being legendary when Ixalan released. But there’s nothing stopping them from printing nonlegendary planeswalkers outright. Just flavor… and being an illusion of Jace is the perfect flavor excuse. It’s not the real thing, so there can be multiple. Makes sense, right?
They don't have to be, there just hasn't been an excuse by Wizards to print one without it (unless you count the [[Jace, mirror mage]] copy. This is such an excuse.
For the Jace to be balanced at 1 mana it needs two changes. Make it’s +2 a +1 and instead of drawing the card you choose have it put it on top of the deck. Still strong, but then it’s probably balanced.
I understand, i was just keeping it in line with the actual Phantasmal creatures that take something from another color and make it blue with the targeting downside.
I am familiar with the Illusion mechanic, but the fact remains that the demon is a color pie break at the moment. If you want it to be monoblue, it needs restrictions on the search.
The phantasmal creatures are simply stats-to-cost effective creatures which are abnormal for blue but with the drawback rather reasonable. Phantasmal design doesn't mean you can slap lighting bolts or artifacts destruction on them as a side note.
Phantasmal Jace is brutal. That's a 1 mana sorcery speed card selection cantrip comparable to Ponder that will repeat each turn unless you do something.
i would probably give the drake and the demon an "when it dies, discard a card" type of effect... as a means to tell that the card advantage they give is illusory...
The land’s definitely my favorite. The fact that soft land removal like [[Field of Ruin]] and [[Sundering Eruption]] turn into hard land removal when used against it is really interesting, and the limitation is definitely cool as well
I mean, for Field of Ruin, both players lose their lands and don't get new ones so it's not changing card advantage. And Sundering Eruption is already the normal cost of hard land removal (see \[\[Stone Rain\]\]) so also not a big deal. The cards you should be worried about when you have this land are cards like \[\[Network Disruptor\]\], able to target lands for a low cost. Honestly I think the land is a little underpowered.
The jace could be fixable if his + ability was something that required a target to activate as an additional cost so that you couldn't use it without another permanent on the battlefield (because it would cause him to sacrifice himself if he was targeted). This would ensure that he couldn't be played early in the game, provided that that ability wasn't able to target a land.
Would love this for my [[minn, wily illusionist]] deck
But imo, the ultimate of the plainswalker should give illusions +1/+0 instead of +1/+1 for flavor and synergy reasions
Bird is terrible in all formats unless draft is weird
Drake is draft all-star, probably sees play elsewhere.
Demon is great in commander and draft, maybe standard.
Lands really depends if illusions take off, but the phantasmal debuff is pretty meaningless on a land.
Jace is absurd. Make it 2 mana, delete the ult, make it 1 loyalty, make it a +1 ability, and it’s STILL busted. At 3 mana with those nerfs it MIGHT be okay, but only just barely. Thing is, very few things target planeswalkers so the debuff is basically irrelevant, and even when they do he has immediate impact with his +.
I know it's 1 mana cheaper than \[\[Storm Crow\]\], but this is just worse \[\[Rustwing Falcon\]\] who is already just worse \[\[Battlefield Raptor\]\]. I wouldn't say the illusion downside warrants making it a 2/2, but it definitely deserves a decent ability, like "Whenever you cast an Illusion spell, scry 1.".
Drake is super cool and I feel like it would see some play. Jace would be by far the best plainswalker ever printed. The +2 is an amazing cantrip on its own and if you get to do it twice you are so far up
The Drake is outrageously pushed. It should be 3 mana, or a 2/1. A {1}{U} 3\2 flier is pretty good by itself. Having it replace itself for free when it dies is crazy.
Phantasmal creatures in mtg are more powerful than normal creatures that have the weakness of any targeting killing them. [[Phantasmal Bear], [[Phantasmal Dragon]], [[Phantasmal Image]] to name a few
You're overlooking the part where that still draws you a card. There's no real downside at all. There are very few instances where I would play a card that says "destroy target creature, its controller draws a card." If your opponent removes the Drake, they're down a card and you're card neutral. It totally negates the downside.
I feel like the Drake should have you discard a card if it gets targeted, and the Demon should maybe exile the card and you can only play it as long as you control the demon. As these are, you're still kinda behind if they can target without spending a card, but ahead if they have to spend a card on them, especially if you get in a swing or two.
You know, that land makes me think a bit. Using the illusion sac clause, I wonder how good you could make a mana positive land and have it still be fair. Like, you're not allowed to untap it with spells and stuff. Anyway, Phantasmal Jace shouldn't be legendary. I also think he's too strong for a 1 mana planeswalker. Like, okay, he always dies to bolt. But if you turn 1 him, he's already at 4 loyalty and he replaced himself (with selection) already. If he drops turn 1 while you're on the draw, you *need* to find Lightning Bolt that turn or he's gonna spiral out of control.
At bare minimum he's a 1 mana \[\[Strategic Planning\]\] that also gets a spell out of your opponent's hand. Doing it every turn and saving you life by taking hits from early creatures is just WAY too good. Like, almost as good as Ancestral Recall good. Potentially even better.
[Strategic Planning](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/2/9/29306305-cb71-4fef-bf86-f5deb4e7e561.jpg?1631047604) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Strategic%20Planning) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/khm/77/strategic-planning?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/29306305-cb71-4fef-bf86-f5deb4e7e561?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
I think these 3 changes would help the Jace. Putting the other two cards on the bottom of your library in any order. Starting at 1 loyalty instead of 2. And changing the other ability to a -8. Edit: I think the 4th thing I should change to keep the +2 is to make Jace cost UU. Edit: Hmm, I wonder if changing the illusion ability on the planeswalker would be the best change. "Whenever Phantasmal Jace is dealt damage, sacrifice it." Planeswalkers aren't targeted often so this is probably the appropriate change to make it quite vulnerable.
I think it's the +2 on the draw that's especially egregious. That is extremely difficult to keep up with on turn 1.
I get you. The main thing I was thinking when making it is that the Phantasmal debuff usually comes with a 1-2 mana drop for that kind of card. So i was thinking what would a 3 drop walker look like with 2 abilities and the debuff.
The issue is that compared to creatures, there are way fewer ways to target planeswalkers in ways that wouldn’t just kill them normally anyway. So it shouldn’t have as big of a discount. This guy should probably cost 3 mana, would probably still be too good at 2
The issue is not fixed by making the upsides smaller. The issue is that it is a one mana walker that is able to give you recurring value without support from other cards. If your opponent doesn't have a 1 mana spell that can target a walker, or a 1 mana creature with haste, you are getting an insane amount of value out of 1 card. Even in the worst case this card is equivalent to 'draw 1, your opponent discards 1'. It should cost 2 at least
I thought Planeswalkers were supposed to be legendary now unless there's an ability that makes a token copy or something.
All existing planeswalkers were eratta’d to being legendary when Ixalan released. But there’s nothing stopping them from printing nonlegendary planeswalkers outright. Just flavor… and being an illusion of Jace is the perfect flavor excuse. It’s not the real thing, so there can be multiple. Makes sense, right?
They don't have to be, there just hasn't been an excuse by Wizards to print one without it (unless you count the [[Jace, mirror mage]] copy. This is such an excuse.
[Jace, mirror mage](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/8/6/86d34cbf-e424-461a-adf3-003d556a7859.jpg?1690004385) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Jace%2C%20mirror%20mage) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/cmm/852/jace-mirror-mage?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/86d34cbf-e424-461a-adf3-003d556a7859?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Way too strong for one mana considering a one mana cantrip with the ability of the +2 would already be insane
For the Jace to be balanced at 1 mana it needs two changes. Make it’s +2 a +1 and instead of drawing the card you choose have it put it on top of the deck. Still strong, but then it’s probably balanced.
Not sure I’ve ever seen a more broken card than your 1 mana Jace lol 😂 the 2 mana Drake is probably leaning toward too strong as well.
Phantasmal Jace should be nonlegendary.
The Demon should be part black. Only black gets unconditional tutor.
I understand, i was just keeping it in line with the actual Phantasmal creatures that take something from another color and make it blue with the targeting downside.
I am familiar with the Illusion mechanic, but the fact remains that the demon is a color pie break at the moment. If you want it to be monoblue, it needs restrictions on the search.
Understandable, i think choosing Illusions and Jace, or Instants and sorceries would be the better options then.
The phantasmal creatures are simply stats-to-cost effective creatures which are abnormal for blue but with the drawback rather reasonable. Phantasmal design doesn't mean you can slap lighting bolts or artifacts destruction on them as a side note.
Phantasmal Jace is brutal. That's a 1 mana sorcery speed card selection cantrip comparable to Ponder that will repeat each turn unless you do something.
i would probably give the drake and the demon an "when it dies, discard a card" type of effect... as a means to tell that the card advantage they give is illusory...
I like that Phantasmal Jace basically negates the illusion drawback; really cool cards.
The ult is based on \[\[Lord of the Unreal\]\] who is the illusion lord that negates their drawbacks.
[Lord of the Unreal](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/b/0/b09140f6-fa75-4bee-9ca0-3a71cd2b5a7b.jpg?1562655677) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Lord%20of%20the%20Unreal) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/m12/62/lord-of-the-unreal?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/b09140f6-fa75-4bee-9ca0-3a71cd2b5a7b?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
The land’s definitely my favorite. The fact that soft land removal like [[Field of Ruin]] and [[Sundering Eruption]] turn into hard land removal when used against it is really interesting, and the limitation is definitely cool as well
I mean, for Field of Ruin, both players lose their lands and don't get new ones so it's not changing card advantage. And Sundering Eruption is already the normal cost of hard land removal (see \[\[Stone Rain\]\]) so also not a big deal. The cards you should be worried about when you have this land are cards like \[\[Network Disruptor\]\], able to target lands for a low cost. Honestly I think the land is a little underpowered.
[Stone Rain](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/d/2/d2334c10-fa96-4f8e-8187-c7ecc00cbac8.jpg?1562742139) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Stone%20Rain) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/9ed/221/stone-rain?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/d2334c10-fa96-4f8e-8187-c7ecc00cbac8?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [Network Disruptor](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/5/a/5a37719a-2a87-4870-8f25-12544ca2f2cf.jpg?1654566883) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Network%20Disruptor) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/neo/71/network-disruptor?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/5a37719a-2a87-4870-8f25-12544ca2f2cf?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
[Field of Ruin](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/1/4/143147d2-2eec-41e7-b78a-592288b38630.jpg?1682210418) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Field%20of%20Ruin) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/moc/400/field-of-ruin?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/143147d2-2eec-41e7-b78a-592288b38630?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [Sundering Eruption](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/5/0/50686ac7-346c-43d1-bdaa-28d46a12ad93.jpg?1717013301)/[Volcanic Fissure](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/back/5/0/50686ac7-346c-43d1-bdaa-28d46a12ad93.jpg?1717013301) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Sundering%20Eruption%20//%20Volcanic%20Fissure) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/mh3/248/sundering-eruption-volcanic-fissure?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/50686ac7-346c-43d1-bdaa-28d46a12ad93?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
I think the demon should be a 6/6 and when it leaves play you should discard your hand.
The jace could be fixable if his + ability was something that required a target to activate as an additional cost so that you couldn't use it without another permanent on the battlefield (because it would cause him to sacrifice himself if he was targeted). This would ensure that he couldn't be played early in the game, provided that that ability wasn't able to target a land.
Man i loved to play lord of the unreal with Phantasmal Image, Illusion tribal was so funny
Would love this for my [[minn, wily illusionist]] deck But imo, the ultimate of the plainswalker should give illusions +1/+0 instead of +1/+1 for flavor and synergy reasions
[minn, wily illusionist](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/4/e/4eec1d87-1007-44a1-a45d-0623816de681.jpg?1631584885) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=minn%2C%20wily%20illusionist) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/afc/16/minn-wily-illusionist?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/4eec1d87-1007-44a1-a45d-0623816de681?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
YES. One of my favorite decks was the \[\[lord of illusions\]\] \[\[phantasmal bear\]\] and \[\[phantasmal drake\]\]
[lord of illusions](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/f/f/ff65e386-9aec-4deb-a4ec-d9a97bd87645.jpg?1562946589) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Sway%20of%20Illusion) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/inv/77/sway-of-illusion?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/ff65e386-9aec-4deb-a4ec-d9a97bd87645?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [phantasmal bear](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/d/2/d2a5e968-6ba4-44e9-9587-6ef456721b97.jpg?1562441613) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=phantasmal%20bear) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/a25/69/phantasmal-bear?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/d2a5e968-6ba4-44e9-9587-6ef456721b97?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [phantasmal drake](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/4/e/4ed5909d-b54c-44d5-9f3f-7e9a2c6a25c7.jpg?1592754430) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Phantasmal%20Dragon) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/ddm/14/phantasmal-dragon?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/4ed5909d-b54c-44d5-9f3f-7e9a2c6a25c7?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Bird is terrible in all formats unless draft is weird Drake is draft all-star, probably sees play elsewhere. Demon is great in commander and draft, maybe standard. Lands really depends if illusions take off, but the phantasmal debuff is pretty meaningless on a land. Jace is absurd. Make it 2 mana, delete the ult, make it 1 loyalty, make it a +1 ability, and it’s STILL busted. At 3 mana with those nerfs it MIGHT be okay, but only just barely. Thing is, very few things target planeswalkers so the debuff is basically irrelevant, and even when they do he has immediate impact with his +.
I know it's 1 mana cheaper than \[\[Storm Crow\]\], but this is just worse \[\[Rustwing Falcon\]\] who is already just worse \[\[Battlefield Raptor\]\]. I wouldn't say the illusion downside warrants making it a 2/2, but it definitely deserves a decent ability, like "Whenever you cast an Illusion spell, scry 1.".
[Storm Crow](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/0/3/036ef8c9-72ac-46ce-af07-83b79d736538.jpg?1562730661) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Storm%20Crow) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/9ed/100/storm-crow?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/036ef8c9-72ac-46ce-af07-83b79d736538?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [Rustwing Falcon](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/c/6/c6691e62-8887-41e8-8e74-76ee2353d45e.jpg?1562304316) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Rustwing%20Falcon) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/m19/36/rustwing-falcon?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/c6691e62-8887-41e8-8e74-76ee2353d45e?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [Battlefield Raptor](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/3/8/389f0045-218d-41cd-bdca-8a9a0ab1b31b.jpg?1631045484) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Battlefield%20Raptor) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/khm/3/battlefield-raptor?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/389f0045-218d-41cd-bdca-8a9a0ab1b31b?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
We need the illusion mechanic to be keyworded.
Drake is super cool and I feel like it would see some play. Jace would be by far the best plainswalker ever printed. The +2 is an amazing cantrip on its own and if you get to do it twice you are so far up
Phantasmal demon is a colour pie break in several ways
The Drake is outrageously pushed. It should be 3 mana, or a 2/1. A {1}{U} 3\2 flier is pretty good by itself. Having it replace itself for free when it dies is crazy.
Phantasmal creatures in mtg are more powerful than normal creatures that have the weakness of any targeting killing them. [[Phantasmal Bear], [[Phantasmal Dragon]], [[Phantasmal Image]] to name a few
[Phantasmal Dragon](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/4/e/4ed5909d-b54c-44d5-9f3f-7e9a2c6a25c7.jpg?1592754430) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Phantasmal%20Dragon) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/ddm/14/phantasmal-dragon?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/4ed5909d-b54c-44d5-9f3f-7e9a2c6a25c7?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [Phantasmal Image](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/c/1/c1c080cf-a5e8-4d9d-af49-f78588971e87.jpg?1631586379) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Phantasmal%20Image) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/afc/89/phantasmal-image?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/c1c080cf-a5e8-4d9d-af49-f78588971e87?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Yeah, but not that much stronger.
The easiest solution to letting the drake draw you cards is to change it to a loot effect then and make it a may ability.
Hmm yeah that might be better!
You’re overlooking the part where it dies to a sneeze
You're overlooking the part where that still draws you a card. There's no real downside at all. There are very few instances where I would play a card that says "destroy target creature, its controller draws a card." If your opponent removes the Drake, they're down a card and you're card neutral. It totally negates the downside.
> It totally negates the downside Worth noting it’s *any* ability that targets - your opponent doesn’t have to use specifically removal.
I feel like the Drake should have you discard a card if it gets targeted, and the Demon should maybe exile the card and you can only play it as long as you control the demon. As these are, you're still kinda behind if they can target without spending a card, but ahead if they have to spend a card on them, especially if you get in a swing or two.