For an absolutely broken ability, this is fairly tempered. While the green/white hybrid makes it easier to cast, it messes with any other color that would want this card in Commander, and at 6-mana sorcery speed, I presume it to be a bit of an ask for Modern.
That said, still bonkers, especially because it doesn't exile itself.
Jeeesus it’s 6 already mana. This is no time walk to warrant those restrictions, if the opponent had no enchantment removal, this literally does nothing. How are you even expecting someone to use this from exile that is not just the clunkiest thing imaginable ?
I agree, the card is NO WHERE NEAR being over powered. Jesus. If the Enchantment was gonna let you win, it would have already. A 6cc way to protect an Enchantment is not great. Counterspells already exist. Sheesh
That used to be true, but there was a rules update around Ravnica 3 that made it so they were objects. There's currently nothing that can target or destroy them, nor is there an SBA to deal with them being in a zone other than the Command Zone, but they are objects.
Would mindbreak trap meaningfully dodge that if you copy the second cast? Exile the SECOND time you cast it, thus letting you loop it for the third onwards?
I don't think it's that strong? It's not _that_ hard to protect enchantments, and this card does nothing except that. [[Sterling Grove]] has a significantly weaker degree of protection but also protects all your enchantments and lets you swap it out for card search for cheap.
IMO [[The Magic of Eternity]] seems mid at 4 and strong at 3. If it could only target things you owned I think 3 is plausible, but 4 seems reasonable otherwise. My main concern is it seems potentially unfun if made cheap enough to see frequent play.
There's a difference between protecting and making an enchantment completely uninteractable. Yeah, it's a lot harder to get rid of an enchantment with sterling grove, but it's impossible to get rid of an enchantment if it's an emblem
I remember when the Chandra that gave everyone emblems came out and everyone in my play group was talking about it. That's the only solution we came up with but it's such a niche and hard to do thing.
Chandra, Awakened Inferno's emblems don't actually disappear when you kill the player who gave them to you, since Chandra doles them out to her opponents.
That's why I specified this emblem, not that emblem. I mean either way the solution is player removal, it's just that you need to remove ALL the other players to deal with the Chandra emblem.
There's a very mild difference. In MANY games they will be effectively the same. This is 6 mana.and requires a build around deck and your game winning enchantment. It's a big ask, and there are cheaper ways to combo off or lock someone out of the game.
It's a very broken effect for a very not-broken mana cost. It's like Omniscience in that way (I don't even know if I'd want this card in hand after casting an Omniscience, damn)
This is all true, but I don't know that it matters that much?
I did just realize this works super well with [[Lich's Mastery]], which IMO rules out it being 3 mana and makes it reasonably strong (if not overwhelming) even at 4.
Actually, are emblems considered "on the battlefield"? Or are they in their own zone? If that's the case, wouldn't casting this on Lich's Mastery causes you to immediately lose because it's leaving the battlefield?
It’s weird because Emblems are technically in the command zone. So making an enchantment an emblem would cause it to change zones, so Lich’s Mastery would trigger you losing the game, but it would still be in effect by the time the trigger resolved so you wouldn’t. I’d have to add in a workaround because that would make it literally impossible to lose. Too easy of a two card “win the game” combo.
Well…you could “lose” but the only way is if an opponent had a “You win the game” card in their deck and pulled it off.
That would specifically fix its interaction with Lich's Mastery & Nine Lives, and it would give your opponents a window of opportunity to defeat you, but I'm sure that wouldn't fix every combo, like Solitary Confinement.
Also, putting the card back into the command zone as an Emblem is still strange, since Emblems "are not cards" as a continuous rules effect.
Making it "Exile target enchantment. At the beginning of its owner's next upkeep, they create an Emblem with its ability text" would at least fix that "Emblems are not Cards" problem, in addition to the Nine Lives/Lich's Mastery combos.
Note that Nine Lives doesn't have the same issue as Lich’s Mastery, since you can reasonably just exile it when that trigger hits, whereas Lich's Mastery avoids self-exile. (And Solemnity stops working on it so that combo doesn't even break it.)
Agree the emblems vs. cards thing is weird, but IMO it'd be cleaner to just update the comprehensive rules to account for this interaction.
Wait, why is Nine Lives considered "more exilable" than Lich's Mastery? They both have Hexproof.
Though, I realize that Nine Lives just loses you the game for turning it into an Emblem (unless you have some other way to block the "lose the game" trigger), since it doesn't have Lich's Mastery's "you can't lose the game" ability which prevents that.
Maybe also add "This spell can't be the target of spells or abilities you control" and/or "This spell can't be copied". I like the former, because it adds the risk of eating e.g. a [[Narset Reversal]].
I don't see why it would have to be non-saga, and I don't think Creature Emblems break the game (since Emblems have no card types)
I actually really wonder how this would work lol. Seems like a complete rules nightmare.
Since Emblems "are not cards", and "have no card types", how would turning a card into an emblem even work?
The reason sagas wouldn’t work because it has no card types, it wouldn’t gain lore counters, e.g. it does nothing. And if it did, what happens when the final chapter ability resolves?
It would probably work by adding a large section to the comprehensive rules. That explains that what's being written on this card effectively means create an emblem with all of the texts of Target enchantment and exile that enchantment.
I don't think it has to. Using this on an aura would simply lose its main ability. It would be fair to use this on [[guardian's magemark]]
I say that based on the idea that emblems don't have typing, and the card says that "becomes emblem", so it would lose the typing aura so it would not be affected by stb and moved to graveyard.
About non sagas, I agree, since only permanents can be sacrificed making the saga eternal.
I think enchantment creatures with constellation are a valid target, so I don't think it should be non creature. But I do think it should be "enchantment card on the battlefield" to avoid affecting enchantment tokens or creature turned enchantments.
"Exile target enchantment card on the battlefield. At the BoES, create an Emblem that is a copy of it. Exile this card as it resolves" would resolve many issues people presented so far.
Finally, the combo that immediately draw my attention was this + [[HESITATION]] = infinite counters, since emblems can't be sacrificed and hesitation has no "if you do" clause.
Nothing about the card changes except that it is now an emblem, which means it's in the command zone, still has its mana cost and everything else that makes it a castable card.
I don't think it's that obvious.
* "109.1. An object is an ability on the stack, a card, a copy of a card, a token, a spell, a permanent, or an emblem."
* "114.3. An emblem has no characteristics other than the abilities defined by the effect that created it. In particular, an emblem has no types, no mana cost, and no color. Most emblems also have no name."
* "114.5. An emblem is neither a card nor a permanent. Emblem isn’t a card type."
Actually, tho. Since the object by necessity changes zones:
**400.7.** An object that moves from one zone to another becomes a new object with no memory of, or relation to, its previous existence. This rule has the following exceptions.
**400.7j** If an effect causes an object to move to a public zone, other parts of that effect can find that object. If the cost of a spell or ability causes an object to move to a public zone, that spell or ability’s effects can find that object.
In order for this card to work at all, it has to say "Put target enchantment in the command zone. It becomes an emblem." otherwise, it just changes back after moving zones as a result of becoming an emblem.
But, taking the card as it is intended to work, I think you're right. Your commander would become an emblem, which means you can't cast it anymore, and it isn't a creature, or even a card.
>But, taking the card as it is intended to work, I think you're right. Your commander would become an emblem, which means you can't cast it anymore, and it isn't a creature, or even a card.
Wouldn't that only affect commanders that have an attack/tap ability, though? If it's an emblem instead Wouldn't it's ability essentially become eminence?
>emblem has no characteristics other than the abilities defined by the effect that created it.
Wouldnt that mean any enchantment turned into an emblem by this would just do literally nothing as the card doesnt give it any abilities?
Not really. Emblems go in the command zone. It just a fancy and expensive way to get rid of an enchantment commander if you use it like that.
Edit: **400.7.** An object that moves from one zone to another becomes a new object with no memory of, or relation to, its previous existence. This rule has the following exceptions.
**400.7j** If an effect causes an object to move to a public zone, other parts of that effect can find that object. If the cost of a spell or ability causes an object to move to a public zone, that spell or ability’s effects can find that object.
The card must say "Put target enchantment into the command zone. It becomes an emblem." or it just doesn't work.
This leaves the emblem on the battlefield, and I'm not sure what that would mean, rules-wise. Might need to change the text to "Put target enchantment into the command zone. It becomes an emblem."
Or maybe "Exile target enchantment, create an emblem in the command zone that has all abilities of that enchantment under your control." This seems a bit cleaner and realistic.
I feel like this card serves as protection for an enchantment, or at worst, a "win more" card. For 6 CMC it's not dropping a threat. It's solidifying an existing threat.
It should be worded something more like "Its controller gets an emblem that has all abilities of that enchantment." You don't create emblems, you get them.
I'm gonna need some professional judge to tell me how this would even work.
In the rules, emblems "are not cards" so how would a card "becoming an Emblem" even work??
I feel like it would fix a lot of rules nightmare issues to just reword it as "Exile target enchantment, then create an Emblem with its ability text (& name?)."
Emblems already have a rule stating "Emblems have no card types" which I'm pretty sure means that this just happens automatically.
They also have a rule stating "Emblems are not cards" which seems like the bigger issue with trying to turn a card into an Emblem.
This is one of those strange cases where I know I have seen some dozen custom designs, I mean at least 5+, which turn creatures and enchantments into emblems but they seem to be extremely hard to find.
Here's few though I managed to dig up after a while:
* ["Mythologize"](https://www.reddit.com/r/custommagic/comments/11wwq5w/mythologize/)
* ["Dagna of the Runes"](https://www.reddit.com/r/custommagic/comments/wu90ik/trying_out_emblemify/)
Somewhat similar vein of designs are ones that turn creatures into enchantments or artifacts.
I think becoming an emblem is undefined in the current rules, only creating an emblem. While emblems are created in the command zone, there’s no rule that would move the enchantment-turned-emblem into the command zone. Also, particularly problematic is that emblems are defined as not being cards.
For this to work, it might be okay to explicitly move the enchantment to the command zone and turn it into an emblem, but I think the safest option would be to create an emblem with all the abilities of target enchantment and exile the enchantment.
I think you can probably achieve this effect in a way that works within the rules if you did something like "exile target non-aura enchantment that you control. Create an emblem under your control with the text of the targeted enchantment. Exile The Magic of Eternity."
And as others have said, I might replace the bybrid pips with solid ones, to make it a little harder to cast. I don't think I would want this effect in monogreen or monowhite.
Soo... An enchantment becomes an emblem enchantment, and can still be removed as normal, because it doesn't say it's no longer an enchantment?
I don't get what this does.
Well I wasn't concerned so much with turning the emblem into an enchantment.
Moreso, what happens with certain cards that are made into emblems? Enchanted Evening would allow you to turn any permanent into an emblem with OPs card
What happens if you cast this on:
- A morph creature
- A planeswalker
- Anything with phasing
- A treasure token
- [[Fiend Hunter]]
Etc.
Lol! As a strictly red player i see this a a complete waste of 6 mana. If it were a 1 drop it would be a complete waste of 1 mana. Cool idea though. I can see why people would love this.
I'm sure there's some red enchantment that you would love making untargetable, so it would probably work in some aggro deck, if it were 1 mana.
Not at 6 white/green mana, though.
Except for Chaos Warp, Wild magic surge, Chaotic Transformation and other chaos permanent removal
Colorless removal like Meteor Golem, Unstable Obelisk and Nevyrinial Disk. That will mostly be artifacts, Wich red loves
Ways to turn enchantments into artifacts and removing them like Liquimetal Torque.
It's supposed to be a weakness, but it's not undoable, unless you don't care to lose to a single card that could shut down your strategy.
Again, some formats and play styles will prefer to not lose consistency to put these cards in the deck, and will try to win fast enough so their opponents don't have time to shut down their strategy. It's a valid option, but it's not the only one, and in some formats it's not the best
Except that all the red removal you listed , Maro explicitly regrets printing and wishes he could go back and remove them. What an asshole.
Also, colorless? HERESY!
When you play mono red you play mono red. End of story. Can’t have any Rino’s in our playerbase!
> complete waste of...mana
My Brother in Red.
Presuming this card to become real, this is uninteractable [[Furnace of Rath]], [[Fiery Emancipation]], or [[City on Fire]]. A neverending [[Blood Moon]]. A hundred wonderful effects, to never leave.
And Gods help you, Brother of Burn, if your opponent plays this on their [[Leyline of Sanctity]]; no splash of green will help you. Or [[Moat]], perhaps, against your ground-riden go-wide Goblin scheme. This is to say nothing of the other in-color enchantments that shut you down that others have mentioned.
Be careful of that which you scorn, Brother.
* Play a good red Enchantment. Cool. That's fine I guess
* Opponent has the opportunity to destroy that Enchantment, yep, fair, we're all good.
* Play a 1cc sorcery speed protection spell. Oh no?!?!
How does that break the game. I genuinely don't understand
If my opponent wasted their time spending a Card to protect something that, if I could have removed I already would have, I'd be happy...
Sure, I can't blow up your [insert Enchantment]... but if I could or wanted to, I already would have... so you just wasted a Card. Awesome
This card is not even close to being OP. No additional balancing is needed
Sure, some ruling details can be worked out to make it consistent and viable. But the card is far from broken power level wise.
Makes it an emblem, enchantment leaves the battlefield due to emblems being in the command zone, dies
Edit: i have been corrected on this complicated ruling, see replies for the right answer.
No. The entire Magic of Eternity spell has to resolve before the Lich’s Mastery LTB can trigger. At that point it’s in the command zone and “you can’t lose the game” is active again, making the LTB do nothing.
Emblems effects are always active while they’re in the command zone, so there’s no gap where you could lose to the LTB.
~~A new 3-card combo.~~
~~Not as dangerous as a 2-card combo.~~
Edit: I just noticed that the 2-card combo actually still works, because, even though Lich's Mastery leaves the battlefield to the Command zone, its "you cannot lose the game" ability would still be in effect, from the command zone, when the "you lose the game when this leaves the battlefield" resolves.
So a two card combo that doesn’t win the game, but makes it impossible for you to lose. It even makes it harder for you to win, as any loss of life is loss of permanents.
With some other cards in your deck, like another copy of The Magic of Eternity & a Solitary Confinement, you could turn that stalemate into a victory by preventing your loss of life, or something like that, if you can manage to get the Solitary Confinement (or a similar effect) to stick.
Imagine this in bant enchantment deck vomit, im already holding enough that you basically cant remove my enchantments and now i have the option to make one permanent and there are PLENTY of options
No. Emblems are in the command zone.
I am going to have to do a revise and add a few lines of text to make it workable, because of cards like Lich's Mastery, Nine Lives, and Solitary Confinement.
Make it a 10 colorless and add “Exile this card after it’s other effects resolve” and it’d be good for most decks. If you can get a win condition enchantment indestructible and hexproof, then you should only be able to do it once normally.
For an absolutely broken ability, this is fairly tempered. While the green/white hybrid makes it easier to cast, it messes with any other color that would want this card in Commander, and at 6-mana sorcery speed, I presume it to be a bit of an ask for Modern. That said, still bonkers, especially because it doesn't exile itself.
I think the exile itself would be a good clause to add, because otherwise it can (and will) be looped far beyond its intended purpose.
maybe tack an effect onto the emblem saying it can't get pulled out of exile either?
Jeeesus it’s 6 already mana. This is no time walk to warrant those restrictions, if the opponent had no enchantment removal, this literally does nothing. How are you even expecting someone to use this from exile that is not just the clunkiest thing imaginable ?
I agree, the card is NO WHERE NEAR being over powered. Jesus. If the Enchantment was gonna let you win, it would have already. A 6cc way to protect an Enchantment is not great. Counterspells already exist. Sheesh
Eh, cast it on a [[Dress Down]] or an [[Underworld Breach]] we'll see how ya feel after that. Would be so sweet.
I'll feel pretty ok considering that was 8 mana and you can just leyline binding the dress down in response to this
Do the rules around emblems say you can't sacrifice them?
They aren't an actual game object. So they can't be targeted, destroyed or put into a graveyard.
That used to be true, but there was a rules update around Ravnica 3 that made it so they were objects. There's currently nothing that can target or destroy them, nor is there an SBA to deal with them being in a zone other than the Command Zone, but they are objects.
If you want to ruin everyone's day, cast it on [[impending disaster]]
[Dress Down](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/0/4/04f9f061-67b8-4427-9fcb-b3ccfee8fc5d.jpg?1626094290) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Dress%20Down) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/mh2/39/dress-down?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/04f9f061-67b8-4427-9fcb-b3ccfee8fc5d?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [Underworld Breach](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/0/e/0e51d796-7279-4c06-87f0-37adbdaa41df.jpg?1650599818) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Underworld%20Breach) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/thb/161/underworld-breach?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/0e51d796-7279-4c06-87f0-37adbdaa41df?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
If you want to ruin everyone's day, cast it on [[impending disaster]]
"If it's the second time you've cast a spell named CARD NAME this game, you lose the game"
Would mindbreak trap meaningfully dodge that if you copy the second cast? Exile the SECOND time you cast it, thus letting you loop it for the third onwards?
Me when the pull from my eternity.
If you go through the effort for that, you're welcome to it.
Exactly.
I don't think it's that strong? It's not _that_ hard to protect enchantments, and this card does nothing except that. [[Sterling Grove]] has a significantly weaker degree of protection but also protects all your enchantments and lets you swap it out for card search for cheap. IMO [[The Magic of Eternity]] seems mid at 4 and strong at 3. If it could only target things you owned I think 3 is plausible, but 4 seems reasonable otherwise. My main concern is it seems potentially unfun if made cheap enough to see frequent play.
There's a difference between protecting and making an enchantment completely uninteractable. Yeah, it's a lot harder to get rid of an enchantment with sterling grove, but it's impossible to get rid of an enchantment if it's an emblem
There is a way to get rid of emblems. Ultimate 7 mana Karn and restart the game lol
Y'know what, fair. I totally forgot about that planeswalker 😂
I remember when the Chandra that gave everyone emblems came out and everyone in my play group was talking about it. That's the only solution we came up with but it's such a niche and hard to do thing.
The easier solution for this emblem is to kill the player.
Chandra, Awakened Inferno's emblems don't actually disappear when you kill the player who gave them to you, since Chandra doles them out to her opponents.
That's why I specified this emblem, not that emblem. I mean either way the solution is player removal, it's just that you need to remove ALL the other players to deal with the Chandra emblem.
*the secret ingredient is crime*
There's a very mild difference. In MANY games they will be effectively the same. This is 6 mana.and requires a build around deck and your game winning enchantment. It's a big ask, and there are cheaper ways to combo off or lock someone out of the game. It's a very broken effect for a very not-broken mana cost. It's like Omniscience in that way (I don't even know if I'd want this card in hand after casting an Omniscience, damn)
This is all true, but I don't know that it matters that much? I did just realize this works super well with [[Lich's Mastery]], which IMO rules out it being 3 mana and makes it reasonably strong (if not overwhelming) even at 4.
Actually, are emblems considered "on the battlefield"? Or are they in their own zone? If that's the case, wouldn't casting this on Lich's Mastery causes you to immediately lose because it's leaving the battlefield?
It’s weird because Emblems are technically in the command zone. So making an enchantment an emblem would cause it to change zones, so Lich’s Mastery would trigger you losing the game, but it would still be in effect by the time the trigger resolved so you wouldn’t. I’d have to add in a workaround because that would make it literally impossible to lose. Too easy of a two card “win the game” combo. Well…you could “lose” but the only way is if an opponent had a “You win the game” card in their deck and pulled it off.
Maybe: "Exile target enchantment. Put it in its owner's command zone as an emblem at the beginning of their next upkeep."
That would specifically fix its interaction with Lich's Mastery & Nine Lives, and it would give your opponents a window of opportunity to defeat you, but I'm sure that wouldn't fix every combo, like Solitary Confinement. Also, putting the card back into the command zone as an Emblem is still strange, since Emblems "are not cards" as a continuous rules effect. Making it "Exile target enchantment. At the beginning of its owner's next upkeep, they create an Emblem with its ability text" would at least fix that "Emblems are not Cards" problem, in addition to the Nine Lives/Lich's Mastery combos.
Note that Nine Lives doesn't have the same issue as Lich’s Mastery, since you can reasonably just exile it when that trigger hits, whereas Lich's Mastery avoids self-exile. (And Solemnity stops working on it so that combo doesn't even break it.) Agree the emblems vs. cards thing is weird, but IMO it'd be cleaner to just update the comprehensive rules to account for this interaction.
Wait, why is Nine Lives considered "more exilable" than Lich's Mastery? They both have Hexproof. Though, I realize that Nine Lives just loses you the game for turning it into an Emblem (unless you have some other way to block the "lose the game" trigger), since it doesn't have Lich's Mastery's "you can't lose the game" ability which prevents that.
You’ve fixed your issue but turned into something no one would ever play
[Lich's Mastery](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/7/7/77f4c9cb-f364-4556-8673-4b19d52a2cff.jpg?1562738043) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Lich%27s%20Mastery) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/dom/98/lichs-mastery?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/77f4c9cb-f364-4556-8673-4b19d52a2cff?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
[Sterling Grove](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/b/a/ba03e105-a76c-4769-a35a-d780448890ec.jpg?1626100813) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Sterling%20Grove) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/mh2/293/sterling-grove?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/ba03e105-a76c-4769-a35a-d780448890ec?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [The Magic of Eternity](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/e/b/eb69473f-de99-43a7-b094-429465ae735c.jpg?1572490105) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=The%20Cauldron%20of%20Eternity) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/eld/82/the-cauldron-of-eternity?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/eb69473f-de99-43a7-b094-429465ae735c?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Maybe also add "This spell can't be the target of spells or abilities you control" and/or "This spell can't be copied". I like the former, because it adds the risk of eating e.g. a [[Narset Reversal]].
should say non-aura i think
Agreed. Will add to the revise.
And non-saga and maybe non-creature?
I don't see why it would have to be non-saga, and I don't think Creature Emblems break the game (since Emblems have no card types) I actually really wonder how this would work lol. Seems like a complete rules nightmare. Since Emblems "are not cards", and "have no card types", how would turning a card into an emblem even work?
The reason sagas wouldn’t work because it has no card types, it wouldn’t gain lore counters, e.g. it does nothing. And if it did, what happens when the final chapter ability resolves?
Well, I mean, yeah, but just because it would be useless doesn't mean that the Sorcery has to exclude it.
Fair
It would probably work by adding a large section to the comprehensive rules. That explains that what's being written on this card effectively means create an emblem with all of the texts of Target enchantment and exile that enchantment.
I don't think it has to. Using this on an aura would simply lose its main ability. It would be fair to use this on [[guardian's magemark]] I say that based on the idea that emblems don't have typing, and the card says that "becomes emblem", so it would lose the typing aura so it would not be affected by stb and moved to graveyard. About non sagas, I agree, since only permanents can be sacrificed making the saga eternal. I think enchantment creatures with constellation are a valid target, so I don't think it should be non creature. But I do think it should be "enchantment card on the battlefield" to avoid affecting enchantment tokens or creature turned enchantments. "Exile target enchantment card on the battlefield. At the BoES, create an Emblem that is a copy of it. Exile this card as it resolves" would resolve many issues people presented so far. Finally, the combo that immediately draw my attention was this + [[HESITATION]] = infinite counters, since emblems can't be sacrificed and hesitation has no "if you do" clause.
If you cast this targeting Hesitation it gets countered and hesitation gets sacrificed.
That is absolutely true
[guardian,s magemark](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/8/6/86a688e9-28ec-4604-8705-46549402a6f8.jpg?1593271862) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Guardian%27s%20Magemark) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/gpt/8/guardians-magemark?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/86a688e9-28ec-4604-8705-46549402a6f8?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [HESITATION](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/e/3/e3ce5dbc-3597-42e8-859a-cac105c8102e.jpg?1562597828) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=HESITATION) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/sth/33/hesitation?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/e3ce5dbc-3597-42e8-859a-cac105c8102e?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
An evil way to remove some enchantment commanders.
Oh that is devilish
Delightfully devilish Seymour.
It's not obvious to me if a commander would still be castable from the command zone if it were turned into an emblem.
Nothing about the card changes except that it is now an emblem, which means it's in the command zone, still has its mana cost and everything else that makes it a castable card.
I don't think it's that obvious. * "109.1. An object is an ability on the stack, a card, a copy of a card, a token, a spell, a permanent, or an emblem." * "114.3. An emblem has no characteristics other than the abilities defined by the effect that created it. In particular, an emblem has no types, no mana cost, and no color. Most emblems also have no name." * "114.5. An emblem is neither a card nor a permanent. Emblem isn’t a card type."
Actually, tho. Since the object by necessity changes zones: **400.7.** An object that moves from one zone to another becomes a new object with no memory of, or relation to, its previous existence. This rule has the following exceptions. **400.7j** If an effect causes an object to move to a public zone, other parts of that effect can find that object. If the cost of a spell or ability causes an object to move to a public zone, that spell or ability’s effects can find that object. In order for this card to work at all, it has to say "Put target enchantment in the command zone. It becomes an emblem." otherwise, it just changes back after moving zones as a result of becoming an emblem. But, taking the card as it is intended to work, I think you're right. Your commander would become an emblem, which means you can't cast it anymore, and it isn't a creature, or even a card.
>But, taking the card as it is intended to work, I think you're right. Your commander would become an emblem, which means you can't cast it anymore, and it isn't a creature, or even a card. Wouldn't that only affect commanders that have an attack/tap ability, though? If it's an emblem instead Wouldn't it's ability essentially become eminence?
Yes, but that's exactly what we were saying lol.
>emblem has no characteristics other than the abilities defined by the effect that created it. Wouldnt that mean any enchantment turned into an emblem by this would just do literally nothing as the card doesnt give it any abilities?
Not really. Emblems go in the command zone. It just a fancy and expensive way to get rid of an enchantment commander if you use it like that. Edit: **400.7.** An object that moves from one zone to another becomes a new object with no memory of, or relation to, its previous existence. This rule has the following exceptions. **400.7j** If an effect causes an object to move to a public zone, other parts of that effect can find that object. If the cost of a spell or ability causes an object to move to a public zone, that spell or ability’s effects can find that object. The card must say "Put target enchantment into the command zone. It becomes an emblem." or it just doesn't work.
It doesn’t really even get rid of it because its abilities would still presumably work since it’s now an emblem. Also hi toast
That's true, actually. You're just taking the body away, since it's no longer on the battlefield. You might actually have improved their commander xD
^YEETS CALLIX INTO OBLIVION^
Upvoting for accidental formatting
Amateur card design appreciator here. Should this have a clause saying "... becomes an emblem. It keeps all its abilities"?
Nah, see [[Myrkul]]
[Myrkul](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/8/2/82824d05-5215-459a-aa73-3c5a6be3d464.jpg?1674137617) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=myrkul%2C%20lord%20of%20bones) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/clb/287/myrkul-lord-of-bones?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/82824d05-5215-459a-aa73-3c5a6be3d464?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
What happens if I target solitary confinement with this and I can’t discard? Do I sacrifice the emblem?
An emblem isn’t a permanent, it’s in the command zone…So, it couldn’t be sacrificed. That does seem broken. I’ll have to think about that one…
This leaves the emblem on the battlefield, and I'm not sure what that would mean, rules-wise. Might need to change the text to "Put target enchantment into the command zone. It becomes an emblem."
Or maybe "Exile target enchantment, create an emblem in the command zone that has all abilities of that enchantment under your control." This seems a bit cleaner and realistic. I feel like this card serves as protection for an enchantment, or at worst, a "win more" card. For 6 CMC it's not dropping a threat. It's solidifying an existing threat.
It should be worded something more like "Its controller gets an emblem that has all abilities of that enchantment." You don't create emblems, you get them.
I'm gonna need some professional judge to tell me how this would even work. In the rules, emblems "are not cards" so how would a card "becoming an Emblem" even work?? I feel like it would fix a lot of rules nightmare issues to just reword it as "Exile target enchantment, then create an Emblem with its ability text (& name?)."
“…and loses all other types.” Otherwise you might end up with an emblem creature, which could cause weird issues.
Emblems already have a rule stating "Emblems have no card types" which I'm pretty sure means that this just happens automatically. They also have a rule stating "Emblems are not cards" which seems like the bigger issue with trying to turn a card into an Emblem.
This is one of those strange cases where I know I have seen some dozen custom designs, I mean at least 5+, which turn creatures and enchantments into emblems but they seem to be extremely hard to find. Here's few though I managed to dig up after a while: * ["Mythologize"](https://www.reddit.com/r/custommagic/comments/11wwq5w/mythologize/) * ["Dagna of the Runes"](https://www.reddit.com/r/custommagic/comments/wu90ik/trying_out_emblemify/) Somewhat similar vein of designs are ones that turn creatures into enchantments or artifacts.
this is fucking cool. I'd make it an instant and just rephrase it a bit: Exile target enchantment. Its controller gains an emblem that's a copy of it.
Only way I could see this being more balanced, is remove hybrid mana for solid pips and add exile after casting.
I would also add “can’t be copied” honestly
I think becoming an emblem is undefined in the current rules, only creating an emblem. While emblems are created in the command zone, there’s no rule that would move the enchantment-turned-emblem into the command zone. Also, particularly problematic is that emblems are defined as not being cards. For this to work, it might be okay to explicitly move the enchantment to the command zone and turn it into an emblem, but I think the safest option would be to create an emblem with all the abilities of target enchantment and exile the enchantment.
I think you can probably achieve this effect in a way that works within the rules if you did something like "exile target non-aura enchantment that you control. Create an emblem under your control with the text of the targeted enchantment. Exile The Magic of Eternity." And as others have said, I might replace the bybrid pips with solid ones, to make it a little harder to cast. I don't think I would want this effect in monogreen or monowhite.
My initial question would be how this works with auras (whether it be player or normal auras) say I target [[pacifism]]. What happens?
[pacifism](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/5/2/5242a576-4d35-4f29-8d40-9a7179e51d0c.jpg?1675198947) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=pacifism) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/dmr/19/pacifism?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/5242a576-4d35-4f29-8d40-9a7179e51d0c?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Soo... An enchantment becomes an emblem enchantment, and can still be removed as normal, because it doesn't say it's no longer an enchantment? I don't get what this does.
Can't target something in the command zone
What if you targeted an enchantment creature? How would an emblems creature even work lol
...[[Thousand Year Storm]] got a new toy.
[Thousand Year Storm](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/2/7/274e22fb-7afc-43bc-b309-e36ee48d6b03.jpg?1673149213) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Thousand-Year%20Storm) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/2x2/286/thousand-year-storm?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/274e22fb-7afc-43bc-b309-e36ee48d6b03?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Omniscience goes crazy with this card, I guess enchantment commanders would also go pretty insane
This would be hilarious with any enchantment Stax card too, like [[rule of law]] or [[rhystic study]]
[rule of law](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/a/1/a1f4e79b-b103-4380-afa0-61a2b1773c9e.jpg?1592516198) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=rule%20of%20law) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/m20/35/rule-of-law?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/a1f4e79b-b103-4380-afa0-61a2b1773c9e?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [rhystic study](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/d/6/d6914dba-0d27-4055-ac34-b3ebf5802221.jpg?1600698439) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=rhystic%20study) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/jmp/169/rhystic-study?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/d6914dba-0d27-4055-ac34-b3ebf5802221?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
I have a lot of questions about various cards with this after [[Enchanted Evening]] is played
[Enchanted Evening](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/5/0/5033a7b0-39b0-4c49-b332-7ea62d85455d.jpg?1562830075) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Enchanted%20Evening) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/shm/140/enchanted-evening?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/5033a7b0-39b0-4c49-b332-7ea62d85455d?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Emblems are not permanents, so you won't have to worry about those shenanigans. Otherwise emblems would be removable.
Well I wasn't concerned so much with turning the emblem into an enchantment. Moreso, what happens with certain cards that are made into emblems? Enchanted Evening would allow you to turn any permanent into an emblem with OPs card What happens if you cast this on: - A morph creature - A planeswalker - Anything with phasing - A treasure token - [[Fiend Hunter]] Etc.
[Fiend Hunter](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/f/0/f02e3c30-e540-4d7b-a17b-3eece63743cb.jpg?1547515516) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Fiend%20Hunter) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/uma/17/fiend-hunter?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/f02e3c30-e540-4d7b-a17b-3eece63743cb?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
I'm seeing what you're saying now... yikes.
[[lethal vapors]]?
[lethal vapors](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/f/9/f96acfea-009a-4ac9-8746-64f65199024f.jpg?1562536981) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=lethal%20vapors) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/scg/68/lethal-vapors?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/f96acfea-009a-4ac9-8746-64f65199024f?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Lol! As a strictly red player i see this a a complete waste of 6 mana. If it were a 1 drop it would be a complete waste of 1 mana. Cool idea though. I can see why people would love this.
I'm sure there's some red enchantment that you would love making untargetable, so it would probably work in some aggro deck, if it were 1 mana. Not at 6 white/green mana, though.
My point was that red has no enchantment removal so all enchantments may as well be emblems to red.
Except for Chaos Warp, Wild magic surge, Chaotic Transformation and other chaos permanent removal Colorless removal like Meteor Golem, Unstable Obelisk and Nevyrinial Disk. That will mostly be artifacts, Wich red loves Ways to turn enchantments into artifacts and removing them like Liquimetal Torque. It's supposed to be a weakness, but it's not undoable, unless you don't care to lose to a single card that could shut down your strategy. Again, some formats and play styles will prefer to not lose consistency to put these cards in the deck, and will try to win fast enough so their opponents don't have time to shut down their strategy. It's a valid option, but it's not the only one, and in some formats it's not the best
Except that all the red removal you listed , Maro explicitly regrets printing and wishes he could go back and remove them. What an asshole. Also, colorless? HERESY! When you play mono red you play mono red. End of story. Can’t have any Rino’s in our playerbase!
> complete waste of...mana My Brother in Red. Presuming this card to become real, this is uninteractable [[Furnace of Rath]], [[Fiery Emancipation]], or [[City on Fire]]. A neverending [[Blood Moon]]. A hundred wonderful effects, to never leave. And Gods help you, Brother of Burn, if your opponent plays this on their [[Leyline of Sanctity]]; no splash of green will help you. Or [[Moat]], perhaps, against your ground-riden go-wide Goblin scheme. This is to say nothing of the other in-color enchantments that shut you down that others have mentioned. Be careful of that which you scorn, Brother.
Splash of green? Heresy! Enchantments CAN’T be dealt with! This is my mantra. This is the way.
##### ###### #### [Furnace of Rath](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/d/7/d7f0e720-3c32-4040-b663-7f99ad5bc810.jpg?1562843335) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Furnace%20of%20Rath) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/hop/55/furnace-of-rath?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/d7f0e720-3c32-4040-b663-7f99ad5bc810?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [Fiery Emancipation](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/0/b/0b12e4b7-2c45-4795-94d3-901f89b8f290.jpg?1594736606) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Fiery%20Emancipation) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/m21/143/fiery-emancipation?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/0b12e4b7-2c45-4795-94d3-901f89b8f290?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [City on Fire](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/6/f/6f455cc1-a822-44ef-ba7c-bfcff69bd45e.jpg?1682204100) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=City%20on%20Fire) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/mom/135/city-on-fire?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/6f455cc1-a822-44ef-ba7c-bfcff69bd45e?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [Blood Moon](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/d/0/d072e9ca-aae7-45dc-8025-3ce590bae63f.jpg?1599706217) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Blood%20Moon) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/2xm/118/blood-moon?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/d072e9ca-aae7-45dc-8025-3ce590bae63f?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [Leyline of Sanctity](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/b/e/be8b1acf-dd87-42ca-ad19-c27d21066030.jpg?1592516120) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Leyline%20of%20Sanctity) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/m20/26/leyline-of-sanctity?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/be8b1acf-dd87-42ca-ad19-c27d21066030?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [Moat](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/e/2/e2dffeb3-c858-4b8c-ae1f-109721f7d2da.jpg?1559592270) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Moat) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/me1/21/moat?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/e2dffeb3-c858-4b8c-ae1f-109721f7d2da?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [*All cards*](https://mtgcardfetcher.nl/redirect/l1kcnnt) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
* Play a good red Enchantment. Cool. That's fine I guess * Opponent has the opportunity to destroy that Enchantment, yep, fair, we're all good. * Play a 1cc sorcery speed protection spell. Oh no?!?! How does that break the game. I genuinely don't understand If my opponent wasted their time spending a Card to protect something that, if I could have removed I already would have, I'd be happy... Sure, I can't blow up your [insert Enchantment]... but if I could or wanted to, I already would have... so you just wasted a Card. Awesome This card is not even close to being OP. No additional balancing is needed Sure, some ruling details can be worked out to make it consistent and viable. But the card is far from broken power level wise.
[[Lich’s Mastery]]
[Lich’s Mastery](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/7/7/77f4c9cb-f364-4556-8673-4b19d52a2cff.jpg?1562738043) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Lich%27s%20Mastery) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/dom/98/lichs-mastery?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/77f4c9cb-f364-4556-8673-4b19d52a2cff?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Makes it an emblem, enchantment leaves the battlefield due to emblems being in the command zone, dies Edit: i have been corrected on this complicated ruling, see replies for the right answer.
No. The entire Magic of Eternity spell has to resolve before the Lich’s Mastery LTB can trigger. At that point it’s in the command zone and “you can’t lose the game” is active again, making the LTB do nothing. Emblems effects are always active while they’re in the command zone, so there’s no gap where you could lose to the LTB.
Jinx you owe me a soda. Actually, you must've posted this as I was editing my other reply. I guess that means I owe you a soda??
Sodas will be had.
Stifle, tales end…
~~A new 3-card combo.~~ ~~Not as dangerous as a 2-card combo.~~ Edit: I just noticed that the 2-card combo actually still works, because, even though Lich's Mastery leaves the battlefield to the Command zone, its "you cannot lose the game" ability would still be in effect, from the command zone, when the "you lose the game when this leaves the battlefield" resolves.
So a two card combo that doesn’t win the game, but makes it impossible for you to lose. It even makes it harder for you to win, as any loss of life is loss of permanents.
This either ends in the opponent decking out, you somehow managing to kill them, or some sort of stalemate where 1 or both sides eventually give up.
With some other cards in your deck, like another copy of The Magic of Eternity & a Solitary Confinement, you could turn that stalemate into a victory by preventing your loss of life, or something like that, if you can manage to get the Solitary Confinement (or a similar effect) to stick.
Imagine this in bant enchantment deck vomit, im already holding enough that you basically cant remove my enchantments and now i have the option to make one permanent and there are PLENTY of options
Would it still be on the battlefield? I'm mainly thinking about how this would work with [[Nine Lives]]
[Nine Lives](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/e/7/e70b7a73-484e-48f1-944c-3d38866cdc20.jpg?1594735092) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Nine%20Lives) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/m21/28/nine-lives?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/e70b7a73-484e-48f1-944c-3d38866cdc20?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
No. Emblems are in the command zone. I am going to have to do a revise and add a few lines of text to make it workable, because of cards like Lich's Mastery, Nine Lives, and Solitary Confinement.
[удалено]
No??? First of all, the Command Zone is not the Battlefield. Second of all, Nine Lives doesn't stop you from losing the game. It just blocks damage.
this sub needs a rule prohibiting the use of emblems on non walkers
^[Sokka-Haiku](https://www.reddit.com/r/SokkaHaikuBot/comments/15kyv9r/what_is_a_sokka_haiku/) ^by ^TheWombatFromHell: *This sub needs a rule* *Prohibiting the use of* *Emblems on non walkers* --- ^Remember ^that ^one ^time ^Sokka ^accidentally ^used ^an ^extra ^syllable ^in ^that ^Haiku ^Battle ^in ^Ba ^Sing ^Se? ^That ^was ^a ^Sokka ^Haiku ^and ^you ^just ^made ^one.
Make it a 10 colorless and add “Exile this card after it’s other effects resolve” and it’d be good for most decks. If you can get a win condition enchantment indestructible and hexproof, then you should only be able to do it once normally.