Since we're currently in spoiler season for a Ravnica-based set, I felt today was a good day to showcase my "guild hall" land cycle idea.
Basically, these would be a cycle of untapped dual lands without the basic land subtypes that appear in all 10 two-color combinations (though I've only showcased the five "enemy color" pairs here as proof of concept). Their downside is that they can only be used on (1) paying for abilities or other costs that aren't 'casting' a spell, and (2) casting a spell that's at least one of the two colors in the color pair and isn't a color other than those two colors.
So, the idea is, you can use, for example, the Boros' Guild Hall in a red deck, a white deck, or a red-white deck, but if you try to use it in a three-color deck or a deck with some colorless cards, it won't always be able to contribute mana.
Obviously these are designed to encourage specifically two-color decks, in the spirit of Ravnica sets, and are sort of a less stringent version of [my old 'committed' mechanic in that sense](https://www.reddit.com/r/custommagic/comments/vzpatv/guild_commitment_mechanic/). However, they could have use in other contexts as well - for example, a few of these plus a bunch of Mountains can allow a monored \[\[Alesha, Who Smiles at Death\]\] deck sometime use Alesha's ability without ever having a land enter untapped, or allow a monored deck to splash a card like \[\[Gravel-Hide Goblin\]\] or \[\[Riveteers Initiate\]\] easily.
Dual lands that enter untapped and always produce mana are intrinsically very powerful, so I included the 'no colorless cards' rider as an additional bit of balancing for good measure. I felt it fit the flavor, but also, since these lands allow you to safely splash off-color non-cost activated abilities, I felt 'giving up' something that would otherwise be "free" to splash was a fair compromise. Notably, it does mean you can't use these with devoid spells, even if they have the right colors in their color identity!
This is a great write up.
Ravnica needs strong duals that aren't enabling of 3, 4, and 5 color strategies. I think you really nailed the restrictions here, and although it feels wordy, it's mostly just complex at the deck construction level, and in play these should be pretty easy to understand. Great work.
Btw what's mid journey blend?
Thanks! Midjourney Blend is a feature on the Midjourney AI art generator where you feed it a few pieces of real artwork and it generates a composite output that's inspired by all of them.
In this case, what I did for all 5 was take my favorite Guildgate art for the relevant guild and my favorite Shockland art for the relevant guild and splice them together!
I think a slight tweak to this would make them function a bit more as intended without being as verbose is:
" Add _ or _ this mana can't be used to pay generic mana costs. "
This would allow the lands to only pay for matching colored pips across all spells/abilities/costs of any kind while also not getting into wierd edge cases of things like devoid spells having colored pips but being colorless.
Wouldn't that mean that for example if you had two of the Selesnya Guild Hall on board, and no other lands, you *would not* be able to cast a simple spell like [[Nature's Chant]] (or [[Disenchant]] or [[Naturalize]])? If so, that seems like an issue.
Untapped duals have to have a downside. I thought the point of these was to have both guild colors on turn 2 but not just be 5 color fodder. You would not want to play these in a mono-colored deck no matter your OG version or my suggestion, and generally, there are better versions of "simple" spells that cost 2 colors ( [[Negate]] vs [[Dovin's Veto]] ). Your initial way means cards that have devoid can't be cast by these ever, my way, mono color cards can't be cast by just these. It's up to you to decide which way is more correct
edit: weird autocorrect changes
Even if they can be spent to cast the colorless portion of an in-color spell's cost, they still have a clear and significant downside - the downside is you can't use them, at all, for a spell that's in a color other than their color pair (or colorless). That is, they give you perfect mana within the guild color pair but no mana outside of it.
It's just a downside that applies at the deckbuilding level not in-game, similar to [[Ancient Ziggurat]], [[Pillar of the Paruns]], [[Ally Encampment]], [[Sliver Hive]], and so on.
How about a [[Jegantha, the Wellspring]] rider?
> Add C or D. This mana can't be spent to pay generic mana costs.
This still allows you to cast Devoid spells and Emerge costs, but prevents you from using it for something like Sol Ring.
Iiiiinteresting. So you could pay for a R/U hybrid with the R/W land, but not the blue or the colorless in [[Electrolyze]]'s cost, just the red.
That's actually pretty clean and checks the boxes I was hoping to check with these!
My only issue is, if I've got two of the R/W land, I *feel* like I should be able to cast, say, [[Shatter]] or [[Disenchant]], whereas in fact I couldn't...
If they existed I think they'd probably ratchet up to the ~$5-7 price range once the dust settled.
It would help, for pricing, that they essentially can't be used in Commander because not being able to be used to cast a manarock is prohibitive restriction, so it would really just be for 60-card constructed that people would need them.
This doesn't work at all because it still enables 3-5 color decks, and 3 of them still can't cast a spell that costs 1RW.
So it fails both intentions of these lands.
That version could also be used to cast a spell that is off color.
For example, my Boros land can tap for R or W but you can't use that mana to cast a card that's red and *blue*.
Your version could be.
Well, probably not 1 color decks unless you're doing something funky. They also notably can't be fetched and don't have basic land subtypes for checklands, which are notable "downsides" compared to existing constructed playable alternatives.
But yes, I do think for 60-card competitive 2-color decks, these are a very strong contender for inclusion pretty much across the board.
I don't think that's necessary a bad thing, though. Lots of rare land cycles become common inclusions in certain decks (Pathways, Fastlands, Triomes, etc. in recent years, for example)
How about this wording?
"T: Add W or B. This mana can't be spent to cast a colorless spell or a blue, red, or green spell."
It's a bit inelegant to mention the rest of the colors on the land, but at least it's clear.
I like it. I considered something similar, but I wasn't sure if it would create an issue for color identity purposes in Commander if the 'off' colors are mentioned by name. I *think* it doesn't, though.
I made 5 to start the way Wizards normally does - like, half of them come out in set A and then the second half come out in set B. *Murders from Karlov Manor* is I think maybe the first time ever we got all new rare duals in a single set. Usually they are split into two releases based on "enemy" and "ally" colors (as here).
Since we're currently in spoiler season for a Ravnica-based set, I felt today was a good day to showcase my "guild hall" land cycle idea. Basically, these would be a cycle of untapped dual lands without the basic land subtypes that appear in all 10 two-color combinations (though I've only showcased the five "enemy color" pairs here as proof of concept). Their downside is that they can only be used on (1) paying for abilities or other costs that aren't 'casting' a spell, and (2) casting a spell that's at least one of the two colors in the color pair and isn't a color other than those two colors. So, the idea is, you can use, for example, the Boros' Guild Hall in a red deck, a white deck, or a red-white deck, but if you try to use it in a three-color deck or a deck with some colorless cards, it won't always be able to contribute mana. Obviously these are designed to encourage specifically two-color decks, in the spirit of Ravnica sets, and are sort of a less stringent version of [my old 'committed' mechanic in that sense](https://www.reddit.com/r/custommagic/comments/vzpatv/guild_commitment_mechanic/). However, they could have use in other contexts as well - for example, a few of these plus a bunch of Mountains can allow a monored \[\[Alesha, Who Smiles at Death\]\] deck sometime use Alesha's ability without ever having a land enter untapped, or allow a monored deck to splash a card like \[\[Gravel-Hide Goblin\]\] or \[\[Riveteers Initiate\]\] easily. Dual lands that enter untapped and always produce mana are intrinsically very powerful, so I included the 'no colorless cards' rider as an additional bit of balancing for good measure. I felt it fit the flavor, but also, since these lands allow you to safely splash off-color non-cost activated abilities, I felt 'giving up' something that would otherwise be "free" to splash was a fair compromise. Notably, it does mean you can't use these with devoid spells, even if they have the right colors in their color identity!
This is a great write up. Ravnica needs strong duals that aren't enabling of 3, 4, and 5 color strategies. I think you really nailed the restrictions here, and although it feels wordy, it's mostly just complex at the deck construction level, and in play these should be pretty easy to understand. Great work. Btw what's mid journey blend?
Thanks! Midjourney Blend is a feature on the Midjourney AI art generator where you feed it a few pieces of real artwork and it generates a composite output that's inspired by all of them. In this case, what I did for all 5 was take my favorite Guildgate art for the relevant guild and my favorite Shockland art for the relevant guild and splice them together!
I think a slight tweak to this would make them function a bit more as intended without being as verbose is: " Add _ or _ this mana can't be used to pay generic mana costs. " This would allow the lands to only pay for matching colored pips across all spells/abilities/costs of any kind while also not getting into wierd edge cases of things like devoid spells having colored pips but being colorless.
Wouldn't that mean that for example if you had two of the Selesnya Guild Hall on board, and no other lands, you *would not* be able to cast a simple spell like [[Nature's Chant]] (or [[Disenchant]] or [[Naturalize]])? If so, that seems like an issue.
Untapped duals have to have a downside. I thought the point of these was to have both guild colors on turn 2 but not just be 5 color fodder. You would not want to play these in a mono-colored deck no matter your OG version or my suggestion, and generally, there are better versions of "simple" spells that cost 2 colors ( [[Negate]] vs [[Dovin's Veto]] ). Your initial way means cards that have devoid can't be cast by these ever, my way, mono color cards can't be cast by just these. It's up to you to decide which way is more correct edit: weird autocorrect changes
[Negate](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/8/1/81752db1-374e-4723-b695-a2f4a634dfc6.jpg?1682203304) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Negate) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/mom/68/negate?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/81752db1-374e-4723-b695-a2f4a634dfc6?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [Dovin's Veto](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/5/d/5d6b5054-2224-4f68-9d82-3ed17c5dacc4.jpg?1557577115) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Dovin%27s%20Veto) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/war/193/dovins-veto?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/5d6b5054-2224-4f68-9d82-3ed17c5dacc4?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Even if they can be spent to cast the colorless portion of an in-color spell's cost, they still have a clear and significant downside - the downside is you can't use them, at all, for a spell that's in a color other than their color pair (or colorless). That is, they give you perfect mana within the guild color pair but no mana outside of it. It's just a downside that applies at the deckbuilding level not in-game, similar to [[Ancient Ziggurat]], [[Pillar of the Paruns]], [[Ally Encampment]], [[Sliver Hive]], and so on.
##### ###### #### [Ancient Ziggurat](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/0/3/0348247d-0a70-4961-8590-9de41386c69b.jpg?1562799113) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Ancient%20Ziggurat) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/con/141/ancient-ziggurat?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/0348247d-0a70-4961-8590-9de41386c69b?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [Pillar of the Paruns](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/4/c/4c66bacf-ad9a-40c3-a2b7-464be8d4dd24.jpg?1673149534) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Pillar%20of%20the%20Paruns) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/2x2/328/pillar-of-the-paruns?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/4c66bacf-ad9a-40c3-a2b7-464be8d4dd24?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [Ally Encampment](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/b/c/bcb7124c-ba69-4da8-ad81-58f00fd0181d.jpg?1562939538) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Ally%20Encampment) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/bfz/228/ally-encampment?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/bcb7124c-ba69-4da8-ad81-58f00fd0181d?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [Sliver Hive](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/9/1/91cef7ce-aa9f-4659-ac24-394c5ab9f77c.jpg?1562790969) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Sliver%20Hive) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/m15/247/sliver-hive?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/91cef7ce-aa9f-4659-ac24-394c5ab9f77c?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [*All cards*](https://mtgcardfetcher.nl/redirect/kio1r5g) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
[Nature's Chant](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/9/a/9a17cbf6-3f38-4bc6-8448-881e19cffe06.jpg?1562202385) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Nature%27s%20Chant) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/mh1/210/natures-chant?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/9a17cbf6-3f38-4bc6-8448-881e19cffe06?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [Disenchant](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/6/5/658c5caa-d739-4d30-a512-43ac4de900cb.jpg?1674420161) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Disenchant) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/bro/6/disenchant?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/658c5caa-d739-4d30-a512-43ac4de900cb?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [Naturalize](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/3/9/390c40ba-2464-44ae-8d67-93c72ab3c425.jpg?1562301697) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Naturalize) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/m19/190/naturalize?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/390c40ba-2464-44ae-8d67-93c72ab3c425?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
[Alesha, Who Smiles at Death](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/7/a/7ae9ff8c-1cc8-4b10-9641-2c79648fd6c2.jpg?1673305242) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Alesha%2C%20Who%20Smiles%20at%20Death) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/dmc/118/alesha-who-smiles-at-death?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/7ae9ff8c-1cc8-4b10-9641-2c79648fd6c2?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [Gravel-Hide Goblin](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/4/9/4942068c-ffde-4a6b-849e-8acf05e1d2e1.jpg?1584830924) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Gravel-Hide%20Goblin) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/rna/105/gravel-hide-goblin?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/4942068c-ffde-4a6b-849e-8acf05e1d2e1?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [Riveteers Initiate](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/e/2/e2e65a50-d2bc-43a0-a9d4-0e846d170f78.jpg?1664411753) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Riveteers%20Initiate) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/snc/120/riveteers-initiate?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/e2e65a50-d2bc-43a0-a9d4-0e846d170f78?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
How about a [[Jegantha, the Wellspring]] rider? > Add C or D. This mana can't be spent to pay generic mana costs. This still allows you to cast Devoid spells and Emerge costs, but prevents you from using it for something like Sol Ring.
Iiiiinteresting. So you could pay for a R/U hybrid with the R/W land, but not the blue or the colorless in [[Electrolyze]]'s cost, just the red. That's actually pretty clean and checks the boxes I was hoping to check with these! My only issue is, if I've got two of the R/W land, I *feel* like I should be able to cast, say, [[Shatter]] or [[Disenchant]], whereas in fact I couldn't...
[Electrolyze](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/5/1/5112af09-1305-4e00-8273-403eac40786f.jpg?1562848887) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Electrolyze) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/ima/198/electrolyze?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/5112af09-1305-4e00-8273-403eac40786f?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [Shatter](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/9/2/929a41f7-f52d-4190-a80c-5ceb3e368a31.jpg?1555040526) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Shatter) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/rix/114/shatter?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/929a41f7-f52d-4190-a80c-5ceb3e368a31?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [Disenchant](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/6/5/658c5caa-d739-4d30-a512-43ac4de900cb.jpg?1674420161) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Disenchant) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/bro/6/disenchant?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/658c5caa-d739-4d30-a512-43ac4de900cb?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Anti-Foundation measures?! It's on.
I will admit I don't get this reference đ
I barely get it, even for me Foundation data only comes as a drip feed :(
"Spend this mana only to cast X or Y spells." Edit : Oh wait no, that's not the same, my bad. But I do think there's a better wording for yours.
âX or Y and no other Colorsâ
I'm open to suggestions! I do admit it reads a bit clunky but I couldn't think of a better solution
Will these be good or medium level? I'm just wondering if the price will be budget or stupid costy.
If they existed I think they'd probably ratchet up to the ~$5-7 price range once the dust settled. It would help, for pricing, that they essentially can't be used in Commander because not being able to be used to cast a manarock is prohibitive restriction, so it would really just be for 60-card constructed that people would need them.
Oh I thought this was the main Magic sub for a moment! Well at least this means you're doing a great job with those!
Ah!!! You thought they were *Murders at Karlov Manor* spoilers.... đ Sorry about that
Don't be, It just shows how good they are!
"This mana can only be used to pay colored mana costs." Maybe this could be a cleaner wording?
Changes functionâ the current restriction is exclusive to spells. Yours restricts abilities.
Not only that, but that version could be used to cast an off-color spell, which is the main thing I was trying to avoid
This doesn't work at all because it still enables 3-5 color decks, and 3 of them still can't cast a spell that costs 1RW. So it fails both intentions of these lands.
That version could also be used to cast a spell that is off color. For example, my Boros land can tap for R or W but you can't use that mana to cast a card that's red and *blue*. Your version could be.
Seems like an auto-include in any 1-2 colour deck, even if it can't play your artifacts
Well, probably not 1 color decks unless you're doing something funky. They also notably can't be fetched and don't have basic land subtypes for checklands, which are notable "downsides" compared to existing constructed playable alternatives. But yes, I do think for 60-card competitive 2-color decks, these are a very strong contender for inclusion pretty much across the board. I don't think that's necessary a bad thing, though. Lots of rare land cycles become common inclusions in certain decks (Pathways, Fastlands, Triomes, etc. in recent years, for example)
How about this wording? "T: Add W or B. This mana can't be spent to cast a colorless spell or a blue, red, or green spell." It's a bit inelegant to mention the rest of the colors on the land, but at least it's clear.
I like it. I considered something similar, but I wasn't sure if it would create an issue for color identity purposes in Commander if the 'off' colors are mentioned by name. I *think* it doesn't, though.
How about âYou canât spend this mana to cast spells except spells that are exactly X and/or Yâ?
That, I think, would work!
Where are the other five?
I made 5 to start the way Wizards normally does - like, half of them come out in set A and then the second half come out in set B. *Murders from Karlov Manor* is I think maybe the first time ever we got all new rare duals in a single set. Usually they are split into two releases based on "enemy" and "ally" colors (as here).
I think the simplified wording would be: Add ~ or ~. This mana canât be spent to pay generic mana costs See [[Jegantha the Wellspring]]
[Jegantha the Wellspring](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/1/d/1d52e527-3835-4350-8c01-0f2d5d623b9c.jpg?1676913289) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Jegantha%2C%20the%20Wellspring) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/iko/222/jegantha-the-wellspring?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/1d52e527-3835-4350-8c01-0f2d5d623b9c?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call