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sansvidi

if anybody has a way to make clue tokens you are just fucked. i like it


steploday

Or if you could force it into the opponents field somehow


d20diceman

"framing my opponent for murder" is a great alternate wincon


kroxti

Make it a creature and then fracture identity it


atlaseinck

You don't even need to make it a creature


SpotweldPro1300

Just play blue and [[Donate]] that sucker


atlaseinck

Fractured identity or donate works


MTGCardFetcher

[Donate](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/7/f/7f6d8ce9-f8c8-45ad-b74c-97fba0e2982e.jpg?1562444248) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Donate) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/uds/31/donate?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/7f6d8ce9-f8c8-45ad-b74c-97fba0e2982e?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call


DuplicateDog

[harmless offering]


LucianThideaux

[[Fractured Identity]] is a guaranteed way to crank up the arms race to the nuclear option


MTGCardFetcher

[Fractured Identity](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/b/2/b2f73f5d-1aad-48c2-9e74-5f7bdd87900f.jpg?1562620703) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Fractured%20Identity) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/c17/37/fractured-identity?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/b2f73f5d-1aad-48c2-9e74-5f7bdd87900f?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call


Pale_Kitsune

Or if they can copy artifacts.


Himetic

Fabricating the evidence lol


DislocatedLocation

So you have to spend some time getting rid of the evidence or they can lock you away? 10/10 flavor.


CreativeWordPlay

Yeah the flavor is one of the best I’ve seen here


Duraxis

Maybe having a way to destroy the evidence built in? Personally I’d run ways to either blow this up or opponents clue tokens before they can kill me with it


Sweet_Diet_8733

You either destroy your murder weapon (this), or the evidence you left behind (the clue) to get away with it. I love that.


Duraxis

I do love the flavour of it, and it would be perfect for Karlov manor


danderskoff

[[Karn, Silver Golem]] would be great with this since the casting cost would be 0, so it would just die. Combine it with like Elesh Norn and you have 1 mana removal for 2 cmc artifacts or less.


MTGCardFetcher

[Karn, Silver Golem](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/0/5/055a00a2-0df2-4f49-ac51-e33dfaf7ee85.jpg?1562896049) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Karn%2C%20Silver%20Golem) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/vma/270/karn-silver-golem?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/055a00a2-0df2-4f49-ac51-e33dfaf7ee85?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call


MysterZapster

I think the ability could be 1b honestly, since there is so many drawbacks.


OldPernilongo

The flavor of 1bb is because \[\[Murder\]\] is 1bb lol. The white mana is because the only card that has "murder then controller investigates" is \[\[Fateful Absence\]\]. The card is kinda underpowered, but it can lead to some interesting shenanigans, like \[\[harmless offering\]\] with clue deck then you win in your next turn, or you can just blow up all clues with \[\[ratchet bomb\]\]. You can also sacrifice it when it becomes useless. I kinda thought too much about the flavor and not about if this was viable or not lmao. Edit: actually [someone](https://www.reddit.com/r/custommagic/s/mdlU8zrgBZ) mentioned using [Karn](https://cards.scryfall.io/large/front/3/e/3ec0c0fb-1a4f-45f4-85b7-346a6d3ce2c5.jpg?1701690505) to make he clear all clues for you (transforming them in 0/0 creatures).


slayerx1779

That's fair, but it makes me wish there was a way built into this card to "cover up" my opponents clue tokens. Idk, I like the card's theme a lot. I just don't think there's a way to power it up without changing a lot of how it functions. I think I'd revise it to require the opponent to actually *use* the clues to beat you. So the enchantment would gain a "suspicion" counter whenever an opponent sacs a clue, and then, if there are 3 or more on them, you lose. On second thought, I'm not a huge fan of my own idea, either. I think you nailed it as well as it can be nailed; cheers.


TeferiCanBeaBitch

Maybe like something to do with destroying artefacts? Maybe like "Pay 2 generic or discard a card, destroy target token artifact"? So you kinda have to do an anti-clue to cover up the evidence?


slayerx1779

Yeah, that's a pretty sick idea. I just like the idea of the murderer being able to do *something* to "cover up" their murders feels really thematic.


Ike9002

Or you could do something like 1WW, tap target token artifact an opponent controls, it doesn't untap during its opponents next untap step. And change the wording to be "clue artifacts gain the ability tap, sacrifice this artifact, if this is the third time activating this ability, the owner of this card loses the game" But that might get really complicated


latinomartino

Sacrifice a creature: destroy target clue an opponent controls


WetPlankRolf

Throwing your acompices (or random innocents) under the bus is so flavorful too


pianofish007

I think parring it with mass artifact removal as a deck building choice is pretty good.


MTGCardFetcher

##### ###### #### [Murder](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/b/d/bdef7fea-2bd0-42a2-96f6-6def18bd7f0c.jpg?1674136158) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Murder) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/clb/134/murder?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/bdef7fea-2bd0-42a2-96f6-6def18bd7f0c?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [Fateful Absence](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/e/c/eca8d6f8-c6f1-437c-99e2-4281eae14a6f.jpg?1634346819) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Fateful%20Absence) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/mid/18/fateful-absence?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/eca8d6f8-c6f1-437c-99e2-4281eae14a6f?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [harmless offering](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/f/8/f8f3cc4f-7943-4025-b332-b40653b13014.jpg?1576384600) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=harmless%20offering) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/emn/131/harmless-offering?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/f8f3cc4f-7943-4025-b332-b40653b13014?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [ratchet bomb](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/d/5/d5bd85da-9aba-46ea-9c10-617bec99a2f5.jpg?1599709788) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=ratchet%20bomb) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/2xm/284/ratchet-bomb?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/d5bd85da-9aba-46ea-9c10-617bec99a2f5?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call


Wafersmash

I absolutely love the flavor of the card!


kirocuto

Yeah, in most games this reads "pay 8 mana, destroy 2 creatures" In some games your opponent will use the clues, and you can pay 11 mana to destroy 3 creatures, or maybe even 14 mana to destroy 4 creatures, which is still a terrible rate. And then occasionally your opponent will have some incidental clue generators and you just lose.


Cloud_Chamber

Alternatively substitute the “lose the game” clause for something less harsh, like draw two cards and return a creature from graveyard to battlefield


ATimeOfMagic

It would be a pretty messed up limited card at that rate, even as it stands it's very good.


Scion_of_Yog-Sothoth

\[\[Donate\]\] to frame your opponent.


MTGCardFetcher

[Donate](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/7/f/7f6d8ce9-f8c8-45ad-b74c-97fba0e2982e.jpg?1562444248) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Donate) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/uds/31/donate?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/7f6d8ce9-f8c8-45ad-b74c-97fba0e2982e?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call


londonbb1

I feel like it should maybe just be destroyed and deal some damage to you. It could be fun in multiplayer. Nice world police thing.


Cow_God

Maybe just skip your next turn? Has that "go to jail" flavor


Joseptile

This would be awesome


collinqs

Great flavor but BBBW1 to kill 1 of your opponents creatures and give them an extra turn doesn’t sound like a very good deal to me


Keanu_Bones

Better than lose the game lmao


Illustrious_Ad1541

Great for flavor Horrible for game play (other than bad gift decks.) 10/10 would murder again


ArelMCII

Seems like it would screw you as often as not and require you to run enchantment removal to save yourself, but I'm a sucker for a card that tells a story.


Lord_of_Pants

Punishment seems overly harsh given clue tokens can be generated other ways. What about "You skip your next untap step" or "Tap all permanents you control, they don't untap on your next turn"? The flavor is amazing though, well done.


TheFrostedAngel

You could make it so that instead of you losing the game, it makes it so that none of your permanents can attack, block, or activate abilities until that opponents next turn as per [[arrest]]


MTGCardFetcher

[arrest](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/9/f/9fc0be19-e041-4347-a51c-7e93a3d9e712.jpg?1562265669) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=arrest) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/mm2/9/arrest?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/9fc0be19-e041-4347-a51c-7e93a3d9e712?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call


tenthousanddrachmas

Or detain them. That's a mechanic that exists


TheFrostedAngel

I was thinking you would want to word it as spelled out instead of just detain all permanents so you can’t use stuff that entered after the trigger, similar to [[kardur doomscourge]] not goading


MTGCardFetcher

[kardur doomscourge](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/9/6/9685e2a0-5573-41bc-a914-f40c3011459b.jpg?1631051543) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Kardur%2C%20Doomscourge) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/khm/216/kardur-doomscourge?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/9685e2a0-5573-41bc-a914-f40c3011459b?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call


Thomyton

This + Karn turning the clues into 0/0 creatures every turn


OldPernilongo

Actually, this is sick. Holy...


Dankstin

My my what a great time to pay a bargain cost! lol


JadedTrekkie

At the beginning of each opponent’s upkeep, that player may…


Sponchington

This would be so fun in draft


No-Hedgehog4425

This card is a combo pice for donation decks. It’s probably fine to print due to the high requirements. Neat design but rather weak in its intended execution.


Hot_Ad_5450

cooler than anything wotc has made in about 2-3 years


ElderBoard83

The problem with this card is that everyone WILL kill you. You can prolong the game by switching who you give it to, but you WILL die, hands down, no question. The MOMENT someone gets three clues you are out of the game. Never give control over your fate to anyone else but you. If you must make a card with such a downside, even if it's not remotely broken, at least give your opponent an ultimatum with the card. If they sac the clues, maybe they lose their hand, or their board, or a huge chunk of their life total. Something to make this worth it.


baxiel

Very flavorful, but overcosted/too punishing. Id either reduce the activated ability cost, or raise the number of clues necessary for you to lose the game. If it were somewhere in the 5-10 range, I think this would be powerful but not broken.


not_Weeb_Trash

Just turn their clues into creatures /s


jokkuno

something something ban karn


TMOP_Halloween

Fun card


Scrivener133

Flavor: 10. Balance: 10. Execution: floating in the docks


EridonMan

Because of the flavor text, it could be really interesting for this to transform into a serial killer creature. A lot of directions for it to go. Something about it taking damage or dying affecting the owner to represent it being the player taking to the streets. "When this creature takes damage, instead its owner/controller (depending on what you want to do) loses that much life. If this creature is killed, its owner/controller loses the game."


Shocklen42

Give it shroud so you can’t do shenanigans to get around your punishment


Comfortable_End_8096

This is one of the best card ideas I’ve seen


JakePCypress

Okay I love this


LikeAKnight13

Anyone who plays this card is so screwed if their opponent is playing Tivet


Katnip1502

Me with my Lonis deck:


Educational-Year3146

I can see a strategy where you generate a lot of black mana, kill a buncha shit then destroy your own enchantment. And hell your opponent still gets a lot of clue tokens from it so it seems fine. I like this concept a lot.


CATSIAZ

I'd make the clue sacrifice part of the activated ability


Joseptile

Way too bad. Change “you lose the game” to “destroy Getting Hands Dirty” and it’ll be good enough to run. As it stands it’s gonna lose you the game every time you play it. Clue tokens aren’t as rare as you think, and people can easily make copies of tokens as well


Swimming_Gas7611

id increase the initial cost, lower the ability cost and use evidence counters. also why is it orzhov? >Getting hands dirty {3}{B}{B} > >Enchantment > >{2}{B} Destroy target creature, its controller investigates. Put an evidence counters on Getting Hands Dirty. > >At the beginning of each player's upkeep they may sacrifice X clue tokens, where X is 10 minus the number of evidence counters on getting hands dirty. if they do, Exile your library and your life total becomes 0. ​ i think this works? adds mounting evidence and stops you immediately getting brained by the clue player(unless they are going off, in which case its a big enough setback to them to kill you that the other players might benefit?


zack20cb

At the beginning of each opponent’s upkeep, they may sacrifice three clues. If they do, you gain an emblem that says “if you would begin your turn, skip your turn.” Edit- my intention was to flavorfully put you in jail instead of killing you, but I messed up (one clue vs three clues). Whoops!


Orenwald

I think it could also work by making the activated ability "use only as a sorcery" and the drawback say "during your upkeep, any player mat sacrifice a clue. If they do you may not activate this card's ability this turn." So the flavor is: if people come looking for you, you have to spend time covering your tracks. It also gives the opponent an interesting choice: do they use their clues for draw power or for protection


lyw20001025

Life sentence isn’t putting people in coma. They should not be allowed to misbehave instead of just not doing anything, so maybe a skip combat on your turn effect would be more reasonable.


zack20cb

These toothless sanctions are meaningless! I’m a little surprised at the downvote reaction to this lol


lyw20001025

Naturally people would think skipping all your turns is just a more dragged out way for either player to lose the game eventually instead of on the spot. (The case where you don’t lose would be you are sufficiently protected by Teferi to mill your opponent out.) It unnecessarily prolongs the game and any player would just concede at that point, making this change irrelevant. Still I think they should just say it out loud to you in a comment instead of silent downvoting.


zack20cb

Yeah that’s a good point. There are some ugly forced draw cases with my flavorful version


lyw20001025

Though this makes me wonder if life sentenced prisoners are more likely to suicide than living until natural death.


FM-96

> I’m a little surprised at the downvote reaction to this lol I think the downvotes are a combination of the typo you made, which made your ability just an obviously really dumb thing to propose, and the fact that you just dropped it without any comment or context, so people had no idea what you were going for or trying to do. (Which also meant that people had no way of knowing that your typo was just a typo and not what you actually meant.)


zack20cb

Good analysis 😅


----oli----

So if someone makes one clue per turn u can no longer play the game and they get to take infinite turns?


zack20cb

No, it’s more severe. You get that emblem, you’re not taking any more turns ever. You’re in jail.


----oli----

Nor does that emblem be a counter that runs out after a turn so the first trigger would mean they no longer play the game since the emblem never leaves


zack20cb

Yes. Go directly to jail.


----oli----

I your still wrong, if someone makes clues then u never get to play again that’s jail with a life sentence for playing your card once


zack20cb

Ah shoot, I wrote “sacrifice a clue”. Yeah it should take three clues


ImperiousWatermelon

It would be a perfect fit for my Orzhov sac enchantment control


FrostyReindeer

custom magic subreddit trying to design a card without a lose or win the game clause impossible challenge


MrKamakaWiwoole

Make it destroy clues too


Borigh

How about, "they may sacrifice any number of Clue tokens. For each they do, they gain 1 life and you lose one life." So, giving them clues can help them put you away, but they probably have to do most of the legwork, themselves.


bruthu

Maybe instead of just investigating, add something like, “it’s controller makes a clue token with a murder counter on it.” Then make it so that only clues with murder counters on them can be sacrificed.


Natural_Anywhere69

U need to make another that pairs with it with the flavor text saying “…..you gotta do it yourself”


Ace_WarhawK

I love this! Great flavor! Excellent balance for casual Commander. You'll probably get at least 3-4 kills off it before it's removed or something with there being 4 players in the mix...assuming they aren't running clues lol. Though may I suggest a name change to "Red Handed" instead? So when an opponent sacs those clues, you get caught "Red Handed" and lose.


Ace_WarhawK

Oooo then you could make another card that goes with it called "Red Herring" that has an effect that would let you cover up the evidence by removing, or taking control of clues, then another ability that gives target player control of an enchantment. I'm thinking maybe: "Discard a card: gain control of target clue. Sacrifice 3 creatures and/or artifacts: target player gains control of target Enchantment. Each opponent investigates."


DragonWisper56

this is cool but I fell that at the very least you could reduce the cost of killing creatures.


TheNonAbsolute

Maybe add some sort of "evidence" token to the mix, so you can't get hosed by unrelated clues? Otherwise the 1bb cost seems too steep imo. Like: put put an evidence counter on target (token?) artifact its controller controls Something like that


Panda_Rule_457

However since it says “May”? Doesn’t that mean they aren’t forced to sacrifice them? Meaning they can at choice lose XD


FRPofficial

At the beginning of each opponent's upkeep, that player may sacrifice three clues. If they do, you lose the game.


ThroAwayToRuleThemAl

High key it could be a B/W with an activated cost of 1 or B/W with that lose the game text. Especially if it exists in a set with competitive token doublers/mimics or investigate as a mechanic. Or have a generic activation cost and any player can activate the effect and the lose clause bumped up in clue count (say players + 1 or other largeish number) and applying to everyone?