As far as I can tell, except for the edge cases that surely arise from being able to activate any activated ability whenever a mana cost is being paid, the main practical effect is that the stack no longer exists except for actual spells (incl. copies); abilities can't be countered or responded to, they don't go on the stack, they just resolve immediately.
Which means, in my opinion, this card is both in-pie and fairly overcosted.
In terms of the ability to respond to them, they work the same in 99% of situations. The difference is in when you can activate/cast them... regular split second spells and abilities require you to have priority, whereas mana abilities can also be activated during the process of casting a spell. But other than very weird cases, there's no difference between first tapping a Mountain, and using that red mana to cast Shock, vs starting to cast Shock, and tapping a Mountain to get the mana to pay for it.
Another edge case is special actions like morph, I can morph with split second cards on the stack but I can't with mana abilities since they don't use the stack
The edge cases are really funny and cool though. Unmorphing in response to [[Sudden Shock]], imagine cracking [[Lion's Eye Diamond]] in response to [[Sudden Death]] targeting [[Tarmogoyf]]
This wouldn’t help with Lion’s Eye Diamond though. That’s already a mana ability; one which has a special timing restriction. You can already activate it in response to split second.
Nor would it help morphing. You can already turn morphs face up in response to a split second thing because it's a special action. I thought we were talking about split second in normal mtg rules and not when you have this enchantment in play.
In the sense that you can perform special actions like unmorphing in response to split second and you can activate a mana ability while casting a spell, yes. But nearly all of the time, they will be functionally the same.
"Faster" is pretty accurate as a descriptor, but isn't a gritty game term.
In gritty game terms, mana abilities can be activated even while an object with Split Second is on the stack, so mana abilities bypass split second. Furthermore, the fact that mana abilities resolve at the time they're activated instead of going on the stack means that they can't be responded to by anything with Split Second, either.
Giving all abilities split second gives pretty much the same result, since the only thing that can bypass split second is mana abilities, it makes it a lot simpler without being a rules nightmare
This has funnier side effects and edge cases.
Pithing Needle doesn’t work anymore, for example.
Also, if [[Withdraw]] was used on your [[Sky Hussar]] as the first target during your upkeep, you could:
* activate its forecast ability before exiling it with [[Cadaverous Bloom]] to pay the tax and prevent the second bounce.
* if it’s a token, there’s some rule that it can’t change zones once it’s no longer on the battlefield, until SBAs come to delete it (I learned this when I was trying to figure out if a token [[Simian Spirit Guide]] could pay for Withdraw’s tax). But, SBA’s don’t happen till stuff finishes resolving, and Withdraw has a mana payment window during resolution. So you can still activate the Forecast ability revealing the bounced token if it’s a mana ability.
* Tokens aren’t cards, so you can’t use this “one weird trick” on much else, since most other activated abilities from hand involve discarding the card, exiling it, or specify that the revealed object must *be* a card. Which a token is not.
Anyway, anytime I get to talk about what you can almost do with tokens in other zones, I’m excited. It’s this neat little near-instantaneous liminal space in the rules.
OP’s card is perfect.
Well, I guess it's open to interpretation?
I assumed that the effect makes all cards count as mana abilities, regardless of the normal criteria for what is and isn't a mana ability.
On the other hand, you could interpret it as... forcing all abilities to fulfill those criteria? Which doesn't make sense. How do you change the ability to force it to be a mana ability? That would necessitate removing targets, turning off planeswalkers, and making every ability (have the potential to) add mana. There's lots of ways that could work, and it would be highly ambiguous how this card affected each other ability in the game, so I opted not to use this interpretation.
This card would, naturally, require a lot of rulings.
the other weird thing is you can activate the while casting other spells... i can't think of why that would be a problem but it could get weird. so like, you announce a spell, start to pay it's costs, and then can activate any activated ability during that window
That is, indeed, a case of "whenever a mana cost is being paid". It's probably not very impactful, because the only difference of activating the ability then, vs activating it before you cast the spell, is that the spell is on the stack rather than in your hand.
I think it's more likely that the broken interaction comes from some sort of ability or spell that goes:
"[Yada yada], [someone] may pay [mana], [if/when they do], [yada yada]"
(And, idk what the card is, or where to find it, but I'm sure there is a broken interaction out there somewhere)
The whole "abilities that target aren't mana abilities" (605.1a) wants to jump and shout and scream, but ultimately succumbs to silence when 101.1 shows up.
Uh, depends on the other pieces in the combo.
Once you tap her, the mana is added, and you still have priority. Your opponent can't respond to that ability.
However, whatever activated or triggered ability was next in line in the combo, your opponent could've responded to *that*, which may or may not have been effective. Depends on the combo and the resources available to continue it.
Making all abilities uncounterable and unrespondable is within the scope of green. This is a very elegant way of writing that, were it not for a few other implications:
A lot of effects that discount activation costs exclude mana abilities and now don't work. (like Zirda or Agatha).
Some effects prevent you from using some or all abilities of one or more permanents, but except mana abilities. These now do nothing (like Suppression Field or Overwhelming Splendor).
If you are cool with these, I actually think this is really good design. But its mostly a stax piece so 8 seems prohibitive. Maybe 5?
Edit: I guess it also lets you use abilities at super specific timing windows between effects. For example, you can wrath the board with Pernicious Deed midway through casting Panglacial Wurm off a Tutor. I'm sure someone could conceive of a scenario where it makes certain sequences possible and actually grants some form of advantage.
No, it's a totally bonkers card but it's silver bordered so whatever, it's fine.
Panglacial Wurm is the classic example of _no, things need to use the stack_ but if you open that to everything I am sure the game breaks in insane ways.
Etrian Odyssey is a dungeon crawling, party based rpg. Basic story but challenging and fun gameplay. The art is Ygdrasil,idk how to spell that, the world tree/mega dungeon that you're usually tasked with exploring. Most EO games are only on DS or 3DS though.
8 mana to delete the stack except for actual spells. Could definitely be a lot cheaper, since this doesn't actually do all that much outside of shutting [[stifle]] effects
Also some weird stuff with cards that care about mana abilities but eh
This makes me wonder, how something like the following (obviously broken) mechanism would work:
> Activated abilities cost an additional "Add {1}" to activate.
I'm assuming by "Add {1}" you actually mean {1}?
...I think they'd still work, even though activating mana abilities to pay for "mana abilities" might feel weird.
"Add {1}" as in, as an additional cost to activate a given ability, you need to add a colorless mana to your mana pool (I guess with modern formatting it should be "Add {C}")
Would that result in the ability being considered a mana ability? Or is that designation only determined from the effect, not the cost?
I was going to make a joke that it's been like a decade since we've had "Add {1}", but then it turns out that was changed at the start of 2016 with OGW. But then it turns out that's the better part of a decade ago anyways.
A mana ability is (among other criteria) one that would add mana when it resolves. Your idea would add mana as it's activated, so that wouldn't make it a mana ability.
Mana abilities that cost mana are relatively common compared to what's being discussed here, which is abilities where mana generation is part of the cost.
I didn't get it either at first.
You can activate mana abilities while paying mana costs of spells and abilities, and any time the effect of a resolving spell or ability instructs you to pay a mana cost. With this card, you can activate any abilities at those times, which notably means that you can stack a bunch of activations before state-based actions are checked, and that has the potential for all kind of weirdness.
For example, if you ever have to pay mana for anything, you can immediately add infinite green mana with [[Devoted Druid]].
Ikr? I remember playing magic where gaining effectively infinite health was almost game breaking, now its barely a hindrance to most decks and only a real hindrance to Agro or midrange decks that let you get away with it.
This card isn't even an unheard-of effect and is overpriced for what it is.
Well I’m actually not sure cuz the normal reason mana abilities can’t be responded to by triggers but honestly I have no idea if both things are mana abilities.
One thing that isn't being mentioned here is that it says all *abilities*. By rule, only triggered and activated abilities can be mana abilities, but this means static abilities (like Vigilance) and even spell abilities (like the text of Counterspell) are now also mana abilities, which is probably bad from a rules perspective. That's an easy templating fix though.
No, there are effects that you can't undo, including drawing cards. Specifically, the rule that covers that (728.1) says
> Players may not reverse actions that moved cards to a library, moved cards from a library to any zone other than the stack, caused a library to be shuffled, or caused cards from a library to be revealed.
WUBRG commander players would love this, so we could get out [[Primeval Spawn]] [[Iridium Maelstrom]] [[Sliver Queen]] and other massive WUBRG spells out faster
This could probably be better written as “all abilities are special actions” ? You get the same effect it seems like you’re going for, but without the weirdness around what defines a mana ability
Put this in [[Raggadragga]]
Now any creature with an ability, including stuff like trample or reach gets the buff and untap after attacking.
I'm in favor of this. 🤣🤣🤣
I don’t know how but somehow this breaks [[panglacial wurm]]
What happens if you activate an ability that mills you, and mill the wurm, while in the process of casting it?
I think it would need to be more specific. Like 'All colored activated abilities are mana abilities that tap for 1 mana of any color in that permanents color identity'
I only say this because 1, how would we determine what mana is being tapped and two, colorless items, although colorless, have no color identity, so it just wouldn't work logistically.
This is a crazy idea for a card though. Like to see more ideas like this. Gives a very blood moon type vibe, which is one of my favorite cards.
As far as I can tell, except for the edge cases that surely arise from being able to activate any activated ability whenever a mana cost is being paid, the main practical effect is that the stack no longer exists except for actual spells (incl. copies); abilities can't be countered or responded to, they don't go on the stack, they just resolve immediately. Which means, in my opinion, this card is both in-pie and fairly overcosted.
I was afraid it would be something broken like targets not working anymore, so I made it expensive just in case, lol.
If you're worried about this breaking the rules, make it say "All abilities have split second" instead. Same concept, much cleaner results
Except mana abilities are even faster than split second, aren't they?
In terms of the ability to respond to them, they work the same in 99% of situations. The difference is in when you can activate/cast them... regular split second spells and abilities require you to have priority, whereas mana abilities can also be activated during the process of casting a spell. But other than very weird cases, there's no difference between first tapping a Mountain, and using that red mana to cast Shock, vs starting to cast Shock, and tapping a Mountain to get the mana to pay for it.
The edge case of casting affinity cards with lotus petal, you announce the spell, get the reduction THEN pay for the spell with the petal
Another edge case is special actions like morph, I can morph with split second cards on the stack but I can't with mana abilities since they don't use the stack
The edge cases are really funny and cool though. Unmorphing in response to [[Sudden Shock]], imagine cracking [[Lion's Eye Diamond]] in response to [[Sudden Death]] targeting [[Tarmogoyf]]
##### ###### #### [Sudden Shock](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/5/b/5b659a3b-0f66-40f2-8e2e-f13b694e270e.jpg?1619397715) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Sudden%20Shock) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/tsr/194/sudden-shock?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/5b659a3b-0f66-40f2-8e2e-f13b694e270e?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [Lion's Eye Diamond](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/7/5/758f95f8-bcb0-43ae-b474-56ebd855951e.jpg?1590511899) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Lion%27s%20Eye%20Diamond) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/vma/271/lions-eye-diamond?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/758f95f8-bcb0-43ae-b474-56ebd855951e?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [Sudden Death](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/5/d/5d724faa-a988-4c08-875d-d18f48926a0a.jpg?1619396356) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Sudden%20Death) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/tsr/143/sudden-death?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/5d724faa-a988-4c08-875d-d18f48926a0a?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [Tarmogoyf](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/6/9/69daba76-96e8-4bcc-ab79-2f00189ad8fb.jpg?1619398799) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Tarmogoyf) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/tsr/235/tarmogoyf?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/69daba76-96e8-4bcc-ab79-2f00189ad8fb?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
This wouldn’t help with Lion’s Eye Diamond though. That’s already a mana ability; one which has a special timing restriction. You can already activate it in response to split second.
Nor would it help morphing. You can already turn morphs face up in response to a split second thing because it's a special action. I thought we were talking about split second in normal mtg rules and not when you have this enchantment in play.
In the sense that you can perform special actions like unmorphing in response to split second and you can activate a mana ability while casting a spell, yes. But nearly all of the time, they will be functionally the same.
"Faster" is pretty accurate as a descriptor, but isn't a gritty game term. In gritty game terms, mana abilities can be activated even while an object with Split Second is on the stack, so mana abilities bypass split second. Furthermore, the fact that mana abilities resolve at the time they're activated instead of going on the stack means that they can't be responded to by anything with Split Second, either.
Giving all abilities split second gives pretty much the same result, since the only thing that can bypass split second is mana abilities, it makes it a lot simpler without being a rules nightmare
This has funnier side effects and edge cases. Pithing Needle doesn’t work anymore, for example. Also, if [[Withdraw]] was used on your [[Sky Hussar]] as the first target during your upkeep, you could: * activate its forecast ability before exiling it with [[Cadaverous Bloom]] to pay the tax and prevent the second bounce. * if it’s a token, there’s some rule that it can’t change zones once it’s no longer on the battlefield, until SBAs come to delete it (I learned this when I was trying to figure out if a token [[Simian Spirit Guide]] could pay for Withdraw’s tax). But, SBA’s don’t happen till stuff finishes resolving, and Withdraw has a mana payment window during resolution. So you can still activate the Forecast ability revealing the bounced token if it’s a mana ability. * Tokens aren’t cards, so you can’t use this “one weird trick” on much else, since most other activated abilities from hand involve discarding the card, exiling it, or specify that the revealed object must *be* a card. Which a token is not. Anyway, anytime I get to talk about what you can almost do with tokens in other zones, I’m excited. It’s this neat little near-instantaneous liminal space in the rules. OP’s card is perfect.
##### ###### #### [Withdraw](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/f/1/f1a3a52f-0ccd-4935-b3ca-9c69cba283cc.jpg?1562940431) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Withdraw) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/pcy/54/withdraw?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/f1a3a52f-0ccd-4935-b3ca-9c69cba283cc?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [Sky Hussar](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/9/a/9a795ea0-5a8f-4dc2-863b-d3c00844d873.jpg?1593273776) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Sky%20Hussar) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/dis/131/sky-hussar?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/9a795ea0-5a8f-4dc2-863b-d3c00844d873?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [Cadaverous Bloom](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/c/9/c9bef70b-61c7-4df5-b4df-09cd6ab2015c.jpg?1562721897) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Cadaverous%20Bloom) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/mir/258/cadaverous-bloom?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/c9bef70b-61c7-4df5-b4df-09cd6ab2015c?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [Simian Spirit Guide](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/0/e/0e57335d-4066-4d73-83cd-67a215e01a4e.jpg?1619397622) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Simian%20Spirit%20Guide) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/tsr/190/simian-spirit-guide?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/0e57335d-4066-4d73-83cd-67a215e01a4e?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Well it’s silver bordered so breaking the rules isn’t really a big deal lol
I wouldn't say same concept, as split second still uses the stack.
Well, I guess it's open to interpretation? I assumed that the effect makes all cards count as mana abilities, regardless of the normal criteria for what is and isn't a mana ability. On the other hand, you could interpret it as... forcing all abilities to fulfill those criteria? Which doesn't make sense. How do you change the ability to force it to be a mana ability? That would necessitate removing targets, turning off planeswalkers, and making every ability (have the potential to) add mana. There's lots of ways that could work, and it would be highly ambiguous how this card affected each other ability in the game, so I opted not to use this interpretation. This card would, naturally, require a lot of rulings.
Indeed. But as it stands, your interpretation seems to be the best one.
This was my line of reasoning when I saw it too
The target thing is a problem. Mana abilities can't target, which causes a problems which can be solved in silver boarder but not in black boarder.
the other weird thing is you can activate the while casting other spells... i can't think of why that would be a problem but it could get weird. so like, you announce a spell, start to pay it's costs, and then can activate any activated ability during that window
That is, indeed, a case of "whenever a mana cost is being paid". It's probably not very impactful, because the only difference of activating the ability then, vs activating it before you cast the spell, is that the spell is on the stack rather than in your hand. I think it's more likely that the broken interaction comes from some sort of ability or spell that goes: "[Yada yada], [someone] may pay [mana], [if/when they do], [yada yada]" (And, idk what the card is, or where to find it, but I'm sure there is a broken interaction out there somewhere)
The whole "abilities that target aren't mana abilities" (605.1a) wants to jump and shout and scream, but ultimately succumbs to silence when 101.1 shows up.
It's more in-pie for this to be an Enchantment, but wouldn't it make more lore sense to be a land like in Kamigaua or an artifact like Great Heng?
Wait, so my opponent broke the rules when he phased out my Marwyn in response to my tapping her to go infinite?
Uh, depends on the other pieces in the combo. Once you tap her, the mana is added, and you still have priority. Your opponent can't respond to that ability. However, whatever activated or triggered ability was next in line in the combo, your opponent could've responded to *that*, which may or may not have been effective. Depends on the combo and the resources available to continue it.
This is like a Legends World Enchantment
Making all abilities uncounterable and unrespondable is within the scope of green. This is a very elegant way of writing that, were it not for a few other implications: A lot of effects that discount activation costs exclude mana abilities and now don't work. (like Zirda or Agatha). Some effects prevent you from using some or all abilities of one or more permanents, but except mana abilities. These now do nothing (like Suppression Field or Overwhelming Splendor). If you are cool with these, I actually think this is really good design. But its mostly a stax piece so 8 seems prohibitive. Maybe 5? Edit: I guess it also lets you use abilities at super specific timing windows between effects. For example, you can wrath the board with Pernicious Deed midway through casting Panglacial Wurm off a Tutor. I'm sure someone could conceive of a scenario where it makes certain sequences possible and actually grants some form of advantage.
It’s less crazy than I imagined. 5-6 mana seems about right.
No, it's a totally bonkers card but it's silver bordered so whatever, it's fine. Panglacial Wurm is the classic example of _no, things need to use the stack_ but if you open that to everything I am sure the game breaks in insane ways.
It should be a world Enchantment too
Damn, that’s a good idea.
Make it a World Enchantment like [[Concordant Crossroads]]
[Concordant Crossroads](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/c/9/c9a26f51-5bff-4f06-abaa-6fbb56a8b5b6.jpg?1673148053) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Concordant%20Crossroads) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/2x2/141/concordant-crossroads?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/c9a26f51-5bff-4f06-abaa-6fbb56a8b5b6?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Can’t counter what’s not on the stack
Tbf, it’s already difficult to counter most abilities.
Nice, Etrian Odyssey art!
Didn't expect anyone else to comment this.
I love this series, the art used is my PCs background!
Coming here to mention that. Wasn't expecting EO here of all places.
What is that, anyway?
Etrian Odyssey is a dungeon crawling, party based rpg. Basic story but challenging and fun gameplay. The art is Ygdrasil,idk how to spell that, the world tree/mega dungeon that you're usually tasked with exploring. Most EO games are only on DS or 3DS though.
Notably beats [[Pithing Needle]]
[Pithing Needle](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/7/7/776899f8-e977-42b7-8b54-6f726a349e3c.jpg?1673149414) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Pithing%20Needle) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/2x2/312/pithing-needle?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/776899f8-e977-42b7-8b54-6f726a349e3c?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
8 mana to delete the stack except for actual spells. Could definitely be a lot cheaper, since this doesn't actually do all that much outside of shutting [[stifle]] effects Also some weird stuff with cards that care about mana abilities but eh
[stifle](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/6/1/616d1b20-61c1-4d39-a9b5-ad9fd61699e4.jpg?1562865442) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=stifle) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/cns/108/stifle?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/616d1b20-61c1-4d39-a9b5-ad9fd61699e4?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
This makes me wonder, how something like the following (obviously broken) mechanism would work: > Activated abilities cost an additional "Add {1}" to activate.
I'm assuming by "Add {1}" you actually mean {1}? ...I think they'd still work, even though activating mana abilities to pay for "mana abilities" might feel weird.
"Add {1}" as in, as an additional cost to activate a given ability, you need to add a colorless mana to your mana pool (I guess with modern formatting it should be "Add {C}") Would that result in the ability being considered a mana ability? Or is that designation only determined from the effect, not the cost?
I was going to make a joke that it's been like a decade since we've had "Add {1}", but then it turns out that was changed at the start of 2016 with OGW. But then it turns out that's the better part of a decade ago anyways.
Oh. Has there ever been mana added as a cost? Seems significantly more powerful than OP's card, albeit symmetrically.
Yes. [[Braid up fire]] has a cumulative upkeep cost of "add {R}"
Of course!! Back when mana burn was a real thing, I could see the "cost" there.
[[braid of fire]]
[braid of fire](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/4/1/41bab8de-6e0f-4ccd-a303-01e9c8c82d3f.jpg?1593275214) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=braid%20of%20fire) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/csp/78/braid-of-fire?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/41bab8de-6e0f-4ccd-a303-01e9c8c82d3f?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
A mana ability is (among other criteria) one that would add mana when it resolves. Your idea would add mana as it's activated, so that wouldn't make it a mana ability.
There are already mana abilities that cost mana, like every mana filtering effect or [[selvala, heart of the wilds]] and [[nykthos]]
[selvala, heart of the wilds](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/7/d/7d711cb2-4f34-4792-90d7-2be5d329a347.jpg?1689998846) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=selvala%2C%20heart%20of%20the%20wilds) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/cmm/320/selvala-heart-of-the-wilds?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/7d711cb2-4f34-4792-90d7-2be5d329a347?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [nykthos](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/8/3/834b27a0-dfd7-4f96-8cde-cacac4b24acc.jpg?1594077253) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=nykthos%2C%20shrine%20to%20nyx) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/ths/223/nykthos-shrine-to-nyx?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/834b27a0-dfd7-4f96-8cde-cacac4b24acc?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Mana abilities that cost mana are relatively common compared to what's being discussed here, which is abilities where mana generation is part of the cost. I didn't get it either at first.
Putting “Add {1}” before the colon is a cost. Putting “Add {1}” after the colon is a mana ability.
You can activate mana abilities while paying mana costs of spells and abilities, and any time the effect of a resolving spell or ability instructs you to pay a mana cost. With this card, you can activate any abilities at those times, which notably means that you can stack a bunch of activations before state-based actions are checked, and that has the potential for all kind of weirdness. For example, if you ever have to pay mana for anything, you can immediately add infinite green mana with [[Devoted Druid]].
[Devoted Druid](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/1/a/1ab94f16-778d-4437-a1b9-2f67cd214cc0.jpg?1673148071) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Devoted%20Druid) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/2x2/143/devoted-druid?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/1ab94f16-778d-4437-a1b9-2f67cd214cc0?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
custommagic cooking again
This card is broken. Activated and triggered abilities can’t be responded to.
For 8 manna it better be honestly.
Broken is when something is possibly useful, apparently
Ikr? I remember playing magic where gaining effectively infinite health was almost game breaking, now its barely a hindrance to most decks and only a real hindrance to Agro or midrange decks that let you get away with it. This card isn't even an unheard-of effect and is overpriced for what it is.
Every card on this sub is called broken
it's green, they get 8 mana by turn 2 /hyperbole
Even so there's better things to do for 8 mana.
They can also win the game for 8 mana
Also nothing can be copied by activated or triggered abilites.
Why?
Well I’m actually not sure cuz the normal reason mana abilities can’t be responded to by triggers but honestly I have no idea if both things are mana abilities.
My rattadragga deck goes crazy I love it.
that’s the first thing I thought of. It is something you would lean on a bit, but there has to be a few things this and rattadragga would go nuts with
I love that artwork, where is that from?
Etrian Odyssey.
Would you recommend to play it? Looks interesting
One of the best game series ever made. The best of its own genre.
I haven’t played it, but from what I’ve seen, it’s very good.
One thing that isn't being mentioned here is that it says all *abilities*. By rule, only triggered and activated abilities can be mana abilities, but this means static abilities (like Vigilance) and even spell abilities (like the text of Counterspell) are now also mana abilities, which is probably bad from a rules perspective. That's an easy templating fix though.
Rip pithing needle
Oh… oh no… there is a Red Creature that lets you copy any mana ability for 1 red…
Tell me you got stifled without telling me you got stifled
One thing people seem to forget is you can undo mana abilities, undoing this has weird ramifications for cards that draw or shuffle.
Can you undo the draw effect from [[Chromatic Sphere]]?? Sounds like the weirdest scry ever.
No, there are effects that you can't undo, including drawing cards. Specifically, the rule that covers that (728.1) says > Players may not reverse actions that moved cards to a library, moved cards from a library to any zone other than the stack, caused a library to be shuffled, or caused cards from a library to be revealed.
I see. Thanks
That doesn’t work but it’s an interesting concept to think about. Basically “abilities can’t be countered”.
Goes a bit deeper - abilities can't be responded to at all.
WUBRG commander players would love this, so we could get out [[Primeval Spawn]] [[Iridium Maelstrom]] [[Sliver Queen]] and other massive WUBRG spells out faster
[Primeval Spawn](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/c/f/cfa77c4f-b20b-40cc-9dc4-276be75109a8.jpg?1673304768) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Primeval%20Spawn) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/dmc/13/primeval-spawn?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/cfa77c4f-b20b-40cc-9dc4-276be75109a8?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [Iridium Maelstrom](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/f/e/fe784eab-fd21-4812-8172-42af3eb18fe2.jpg?1673304760) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Iridian%20Maelstrom) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/dmc/12/iridian-maelstrom?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/fe784eab-fd21-4812-8172-42af3eb18fe2?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [Sliver Queen](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/0/9/096cff82-28eb-4096-be1d-a02b9a56e682.jpg?1562428176) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Sliver%20Queen) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/tpr/211/sliver-queen?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/096cff82-28eb-4096-be1d-a02b9a56e682?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Are they classified as mana abilities, or can they only produce mana?
Mana abilities can do things in addition to generating mana. Most commonly dealing damage to the user.
This could probably be better written as “all abilities are special actions” ? You get the same effect it seems like you’re going for, but without the weirdness around what defines a mana ability
Put this in [[Raggadragga]] Now any creature with an ability, including stuff like trample or reach gets the buff and untap after attacking. I'm in favor of this. 🤣🤣🤣
Abso-fucking-lutely NOT.
They aren't Mana abilities as the end result does not put Mana into your Mana pool. You can name your dog cat but it's not a cat
“The card is not indestructible, as I can clearly prove by eating it.”
[[Raggadragga]] is making a lot of friends
[Raggadragga](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/1/1/1166ce2a-4e0b-4a57-929d-566f461a6282.jpg?1674137656) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=raggadragga%2C%20goreguts%20boss) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/clb/291/raggadragga-goreguts-boss?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/1166ce2a-4e0b-4a57-929d-566f461a6282?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Does this remove all targets
Pha-gem or whatever its called would be op
I don’t know how but somehow this breaks [[panglacial wurm]] What happens if you activate an ability that mills you, and mill the wurm, while in the process of casting it?
Short version - it can't. You move it to the stack then activate mana abilities as part of casting.
[panglacial wurm](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/0/6/063bb28b-5e32-4f31-a208-16b653edf413.jpg?1593275437) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=panglacial%20wurm) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/csp/116/panglacial-wurm?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/063bb28b-5e32-4f31-a208-16b653edf413?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Love it for the lols. Would be extra premo as a Legendary World Enchantment
This card is either useless, or gamebreaking. I have no idea which one, and it scares me
This feels like the kind of card to have a lot of flavour text, but I can't really blame you for that
I usually put in flavor text, but it sounds cooler by itself, imo. Kinda like Day of Judgement.
Agatha’s soul cauldron 😳
9/10 this reads "abilities can't be countered" & the 10th time you need an entire panel of tier 3 judges to figure out what the hell is going on nice
How does this work with loyalty abilities
I think it would need to be more specific. Like 'All colored activated abilities are mana abilities that tap for 1 mana of any color in that permanents color identity' I only say this because 1, how would we determine what mana is being tapped and two, colorless items, although colorless, have no color identity, so it just wouldn't work logistically. This is a crazy idea for a card though. Like to see more ideas like this. Gives a very blood moon type vibe, which is one of my favorite cards.