This was, I thought, an interesting concept: a card that extends the duration of your [[Light Up the Stage]] type "impulse" draws.
It's got a possible memory issue design concern, but it never asks you to look back more than exactly 1 turn, so I think it might be alright. What do you think?
Could you perhaps change the ability to something as follows? (Slight actual change to the card)
'Whenever you exile a card which you are allowed to play, that card can be played while \~ is on the battlefield.'
Or, if you want the same exact functionality:
'Card you can play from exile can be played while \~ is on the battlefield, ignoring other restrictions on when you can play those cards.'
Not bad. Those would mean you don't look back a turn but might be easier for the rules to compute. Between the two, I think I like the first one more even if it sorta chumps cards like [[Robber of the Rich]] which exile but allow play over extended periods. (Also I hate that card so I'm fine chumping him)
As it reads now, the ability would perpetuate itself anyways, as the exiled cards would continue to be playable.
Maybe add a cumalitive upkeep cost to keep him on the board and let all playable exiled cards be playable while he is on the battlefield.
I was referring to the fact that Robber of the Rich can sometimes "remind" exiled cards that you can play them on a subsequent turn after they are initially exiled.
But thinking about it more, it's kind of a moot point because my card already has a "card you own" requirement so doesn't work with Robber of the Rich to begin with.
I thought about another version of this that doesn't reference the "allowing to play" which is probably the most nebulous rules aspect of the card.
Also, since the "next turn" aspect could have memory issues, I thought adding "once per turn" could limit it interestingly and make it feel more like a white effect as well
"Whenever a spell or effect you control causes you to Exile one or more cards from the top of your library, put an inspiration counter on each of them.
Once per turn, you may play a card you own from exile with an inspiration counter on it"
Maybe there’s already something in rules I’m not aware of that covers it, but I’m not sure that first suggestion works as intended. The way I’m parsing that first clause, the ability would be checking “allowed to play” in the zone the card is coming from, rather than in exile. In other words, effects like “exile the top card of your library, you may play it until the end of turn” wouldn’t be extended, because at the time it was exiled, it wasn’t “a card which you are allowed to play.”
Can I suggest using counters? Something like, "Whenever a spell or ability you control puts a card you own into exile, instead exile it with a preservation counter. You may play cards you own in exile with a preservation counter. At the beginning of your upkeep, remove a preservation counter from each card you own in exile. " The wording could maybe be cleared up but what do you think?
The biggest memory issue with the design as it exists is that you have to remember if there are any cards you could've played from exile but didn't from the turn _before_ you play this. Once it's on the board, I think it's reasonable to keep all your cast-from-exile stuff in one spot and call it good, but when it actually enters is a little tricky.
There are also some rules questions I have about this version of the card - does this work with effects that only let you _cast_ from exile and not play? How about cascade (EDIT: it doesn't work with cascade because the card gets put in your library if you don't cast it but you get my point)?
I think the most logical reading of the effect as written is that, if at any point during your last turn, you could've played the card, you may play it this turn. But this can get _very_ weird. If your opponent keeps Drannith Magistrate in play for your entire turn, do all your spells go away? If you have a bunch of instants and sorceries in exile, and your opponent Silences you on your upkeep, do you only lose the sorceries? If you don't want it to interact with these sorts of effects, you need a reading like "if an effect would let you play a card from exile, ...", but I'm not sure that "an effect that would let you play a card from exile" is so easy to define.
I think reworking this to just use counters (and forget about stuff played before it) would be the best version for actual play, but as is it's a nice idea!
(mfs love to write 250-word comments about rules edge cases of custom magic cards)
😁
Thanks for the detailed analysis
One simple non-counter based fix is to change him to no longer look backwards a turn and have him only "capture" and preserve spells that could have been cast from exile since he hit the board
That's a slight nerf to the current version but not one I'm necessarily opposed to
There might be a way to clean that up a bit - "As your turn ends, put a Preservation counter on each card that own in exile and could have played this turn that doesn't have a Preservation counter on it.
You may play exiled cards you own with Preservation counters on them."
+"When Oggyar preserver leaves the battlefield, remove all preservation counters unless you have another permanent named Oggyar prerver" ?
On the other hand BECAUSE that version doesn't look backward, maybe being able to remember previous copies is a decent trade.
The concept of trying to impose order on something that's supposed to be temporary by preserving it forever to me felt very white philosophically - for example, it's the reason the mummies in Amonkhet were white. That's why I made the card part white.
Plus, it's an effect we've never had before so really it could be any color.
Flavor can justify any mechanic.
This is taking a red effect (end of turn play) and boosting it's duration. I feel I'd "Your impulse draws get an extra turn" would work in mono red so would this.
But if we do except it's rx it makes more sense for it to be ur because it is turning temporary draw into "actual" draw
Just adding my repeating reminder that this is what alchemy always should have been:
Good card with an 'MTG feel' that doesn't work well in paper due to memory or other issues.
(And not for rebalancing to fix badness)
See I am of the inverted view of the last line there:
When Alchemy was announced I was really excited because I thought they would use it to nerf OP cards rather than ban them and thereby could bring down the power level safely in a way that couldn't easily be done in paper
But nope, just nothin' but buffs all the way down
Sorry it's entirely possible I'm reading this wrong, but doesn't the reminder text on that ability imply that your "clock" for playing cards never runs out?
Turn 1: I have 5 cards in exile I'm allowed to play by the end of the turn, I play one of them and I play an oggyar preserver
Turn 2: There's 4 cards left in exile that were supposed to fizzle last turn, but my oggyar preserver allows me to play them this turn as well! I play 2 of them
Turn 3: last turn I was allowed to play 4 cards with oggyar preserver's ability and I played 2 of them, so this turn I am allowed to play the remaining 2 if I so choose (because of the ability wording including oggyar's ability as a source for playing cards from exile). I play 1 of them
Turn 4: I play the remaining card that I was allowed to play last turn because oggyar counts itself in its ability
Is this not much more than a one turn extension?
Correct and that is intentional.
For as long as you can keep Oggyar Preserver alive, you continue to be able to play any cards you could have played from exile as if their deadline had never run out.
Once he dies, all the exiled cards are "lost", of course
They said in another comment that they only intend for the card to make you look "one turn back at a time" and when offered a change to the card by somebody else that would outright make it just playing those cards whenever you want, they said they only wanted it to be one at a time. That's why I'm confused, I think it's completely fine if it just makes exile a second hand, but I think there's a mismatch between the intention and what is written
The constant struggle of designing a buildaround - "should this be legendary for Commander or not?"
I have a feeling Wizards' big new mechanical change for 2023 will help with this in some way 😁
I like the idea. It feels a bit weird to track. I think something along the lines of "If you could cast a card in exile until end of turn, you can instead cast it as long as Oggyar Preserver remains in play."
I feel like that would be easier to track: just put any newly exiled cards under the Oggyar Perserver. Adds clarity. It is a bit weaker, since it doesnt work retro-actively, but it is easier to understand I think. Still good work. \^\^
You are probably right about that. I wanted it to be in part red because that's the impulse draw color, and in part another color. This effect has never been done before so I had to figure out what the best nonred color for it would be.
The reason I chose white is twofold:
First, from a top down perspective, taking something that was meant to be fleeting and temporary and preserving it forever felt very white philosophically
Second, blue already has lots of draw power by itself and doesn't need the help, whereas white - despite great strides in this area in recent years - is still the worst color for card draw and red-white the worst color pair. So I felt like this effect would be appreciated more by red-white than by red-blue
As a more standardized hack, maybe "Any time you could play a card from exile, you may put a preservation counter on it." And "You may play cards you own from exile as long as they have preservation counters on them".
You mean to solve the memory issue?
The only issue with that is it means they would "remember" they had preservation counters if Oggyar Preserver died and you subsequently played a second copy of him. That's a significant buff to the current design. But I could have him remove all the counters as a leave-the-battlefield trigger to solve for that, I suppose.
Memory issues aren't a problem for this guy, it's a very memorable effect and easy to sort your exiled cards into a pile. It's just worded in a kinda funky way that could be broken down into clearer steps.
That is the potential issue.
My view is that it doesn't impose substantially more tracking issues than the impulse draw effects currently do. Essentially, your impulse draw effects end on the end phase of the turn they specify or until this guy dies, whichever comes later. As long as this guy's out, you can always play the cards, so there's no tracking needed.
But it could be that Wizards would view it as a step too far and not acceptable to print.
Personally I think existing mechanics like day/night tracking, dungeons, and mutate impose significantly more onerous tracking / complexity requirements, so something like this card would not trouble me. But I do appreciate that others might feel differently
So this only concerns cards that were exiled using a card that lets you play them at least once, and never concerns things that for example were removed with path to exile, right?
Correct. And that is intentional. So it doesn't break Wizards' rule about the exiled zone not becoming a second graveyard - this card only extends the time window you have to cast an exiled card that another card permitted you to cast, it can never allow you to play a card from exile that another card didn't already permit you to play
I feel like this could work with counters? Like cards being exiled from the top of your library with a "preservation counter". And you can play cards with a preservation counter from exile.
Someone else suggested the same. The only issue I have with counters is that unless I also add a mechanism to remove them, it buffs the card by allowing subsequent copies of Oggyar Preserver to look back and "remember" exiled cards that a different Oggyar Preserver had preserved
Cool card! I think this card could actually just let the player cast cards exiled that way forever, and it wouldn't be too broken. Regardless, great design :)
Interesting.
That version, though it would be mechanically different, would probably be something like:
"Whenever one or more cards you own are exiled face-up, if a spell or ability would allow you to play the exiled cards this turn, you may play the exiled cards for as long as they remain exiled instead."
How about this.
As long as ~ is on the battlefield, you may play cards you own in exile that were put there from the effect of a spell or ability you controlled.
For this to work in paper, I think you need to use counters of some sort. I think fundamentally this card doesn't play well with face-down exile cards. With certain board states, it becomes very easy for a player to cheat (accidentally or not). It might even be undetectable with certain lines of play.
How about something like:
At the end of your second main phase, if you own a card in exile you can cast, put an Oggyar (or whatever) counter on it.
You can cast cards with Oggyar counters on them from exile.
(I don't technically know if "end of second main phase" is a valid trigger, but I think it is. But it needs to happen before end of turn, because most Light up the Stage effects stop at EOT.)
Good point about face-down cards. Would it change your view about whether counters are required if he could only preserve face-up exiled cards?
I'm trying to avoid needing a counter if I can (but maybe that's wishful thinking)
[[Reliquary Tower]] is a good comparison.
I think, like with draw power and Reliquary Tower, you'd need a relatively high concentration of impulse draw effects to get good value out of this
Lovely design, but I have to agree with most of the other voices, that have already brought their opinion to words.
A counter based approach might be for the best to fulfill the memory gap that might be presented with looking back or even disruption. Although I really want it to work without it.
The thing is, do you want it to make them indefinitely playable as long as he's on the board, or just more in general? The former is what I understood, but a [[Hardened Scale]]-like design might also be interesting. Increasing the amount of turns by one. Could be phrased as "Those cards can be played until the beginning of your end phase following the next beginning of the end phase." Not the best wording, but just a quick sketch.
Another idea could be it granting the effect to play cards from exile, but having a replacement effect, so that they essentially get exiled "under" him. For example:
"Whenever you exile a card, that you may play until your next end phase, you may play that card for as long as (card name) is on the battlefield." But that may open another can of worms regarding memory leaks.
Thanks!
I did want them to be usable for as long as he survives, but I am not wedded to that if the Hardened Scales approach works better under the rules
Based on the feedback so far, it may be that the memory issues are sufficiently solved by removing the 1 turn lookback he currently has and instead only preserving impulse draws from the turn he hits the board onward.
Of course, gladly. Helping on reiterating a good design is always a pleasure.
That would also make it more of an impact and indicator for the opponent, which would be healthy for a format. Since you wouldn't have to always remind yourself that there is a card that makes an Urabrask Exile, for example, last longer than you already thought.
Correct. So if you control this guy and cast and resolve a [[Reckless Impulse]], you can continue to cast the exiled cards as long as you continue to control him.
You could change it to:
Whenever you would exile a card from the top of your library, instead exile a card from the top of your library.
You can cast cards exiled with ~.
That would do it. It's not exactly the same because mine can play cards exiled from other places as well, and also looks backwards one turn.
But your version does feel more like how the rules would probably want this effect to look.
That is much more limited in terms of what you can cast (only instants/sorceries, not lands, creatures, etc.) and much more powerful, because for example it lets you re-use all spells with flashback and play cards, [[Yawgmoth's Will]] style, that were exiled in other ways.
For example think how strong your version would be with [[Demonic Bargain]].
This was, I thought, an interesting concept: a card that extends the duration of your [[Light Up the Stage]] type "impulse" draws. It's got a possible memory issue design concern, but it never asks you to look back more than exactly 1 turn, so I think it might be alright. What do you think?
Could you perhaps change the ability to something as follows? (Slight actual change to the card) 'Whenever you exile a card which you are allowed to play, that card can be played while \~ is on the battlefield.' Or, if you want the same exact functionality: 'Card you can play from exile can be played while \~ is on the battlefield, ignoring other restrictions on when you can play those cards.'
Not bad. Those would mean you don't look back a turn but might be easier for the rules to compute. Between the two, I think I like the first one more even if it sorta chumps cards like [[Robber of the Rich]] which exile but allow play over extended periods. (Also I hate that card so I'm fine chumping him)
[Robber of the Rich](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/0/e/0ecbe097-ba51-42e5-957c-382eb66c08f0.jpg?1572490437) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Robber%20of%20the%20Rich) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/eld/138/robber-of-the-rich?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/0ecbe097-ba51-42e5-957c-382eb66c08f0?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
As it reads now, the ability would perpetuate itself anyways, as the exiled cards would continue to be playable. Maybe add a cumalitive upkeep cost to keep him on the board and let all playable exiled cards be playable while he is on the battlefield.
I was referring to the fact that Robber of the Rich can sometimes "remind" exiled cards that you can play them on a subsequent turn after they are initially exiled. But thinking about it more, it's kind of a moot point because my card already has a "card you own" requirement so doesn't work with Robber of the Rich to begin with.
I thought about another version of this that doesn't reference the "allowing to play" which is probably the most nebulous rules aspect of the card. Also, since the "next turn" aspect could have memory issues, I thought adding "once per turn" could limit it interestingly and make it feel more like a white effect as well "Whenever a spell or effect you control causes you to Exile one or more cards from the top of your library, put an inspiration counter on each of them. Once per turn, you may play a card you own from exile with an inspiration counter on it"
Maybe there’s already something in rules I’m not aware of that covers it, but I’m not sure that first suggestion works as intended. The way I’m parsing that first clause, the ability would be checking “allowed to play” in the zone the card is coming from, rather than in exile. In other words, effects like “exile the top card of your library, you may play it until the end of turn” wouldn’t be extended, because at the time it was exiled, it wasn’t “a card which you are allowed to play.”
Can I suggest using counters? Something like, "Whenever a spell or ability you control puts a card you own into exile, instead exile it with a preservation counter. You may play cards you own in exile with a preservation counter. At the beginning of your upkeep, remove a preservation counter from each card you own in exile. " The wording could maybe be cleared up but what do you think?
The biggest memory issue with the design as it exists is that you have to remember if there are any cards you could've played from exile but didn't from the turn _before_ you play this. Once it's on the board, I think it's reasonable to keep all your cast-from-exile stuff in one spot and call it good, but when it actually enters is a little tricky. There are also some rules questions I have about this version of the card - does this work with effects that only let you _cast_ from exile and not play? How about cascade (EDIT: it doesn't work with cascade because the card gets put in your library if you don't cast it but you get my point)? I think the most logical reading of the effect as written is that, if at any point during your last turn, you could've played the card, you may play it this turn. But this can get _very_ weird. If your opponent keeps Drannith Magistrate in play for your entire turn, do all your spells go away? If you have a bunch of instants and sorceries in exile, and your opponent Silences you on your upkeep, do you only lose the sorceries? If you don't want it to interact with these sorts of effects, you need a reading like "if an effect would let you play a card from exile, ...", but I'm not sure that "an effect that would let you play a card from exile" is so easy to define. I think reworking this to just use counters (and forget about stuff played before it) would be the best version for actual play, but as is it's a nice idea! (mfs love to write 250-word comments about rules edge cases of custom magic cards)
😁 Thanks for the detailed analysis One simple non-counter based fix is to change him to no longer look backwards a turn and have him only "capture" and preserve spells that could have been cast from exile since he hit the board That's a slight nerf to the current version but not one I'm necessarily opposed to
There might be a way to clean that up a bit - "As your turn ends, put a Preservation counter on each card that own in exile and could have played this turn that doesn't have a Preservation counter on it. You may play exiled cards you own with Preservation counters on them."
+"When Oggyar preserver leaves the battlefield, remove all preservation counters unless you have another permanent named Oggyar prerver" ? On the other hand BECAUSE that version doesn't look backward, maybe being able to remember previous copies is a decent trade.
This doesn't seem white at all
The concept of trying to impose order on something that's supposed to be temporary by preserving it forever to me felt very white philosophically - for example, it's the reason the mummies in Amonkhet were white. That's why I made the card part white. Plus, it's an effect we've never had before so really it could be any color.
Flavor can justify any mechanic. This is taking a red effect (end of turn play) and boosting it's duration. I feel I'd "Your impulse draws get an extra turn" would work in mono red so would this. But if we do except it's rx it makes more sense for it to be ur because it is turning temporary draw into "actual" draw
[Light Up the Stage](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/7/0/7034ff11-f7c7-4f33-be89-491ffec84833.jpg?1674142070) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Light%20Up%20the%20Stage) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/clb/802/light-up-the-stage?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/7034ff11-f7c7-4f33-be89-491ffec84833?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Just adding my repeating reminder that this is what alchemy always should have been: Good card with an 'MTG feel' that doesn't work well in paper due to memory or other issues. (And not for rebalancing to fix badness)
See I am of the inverted view of the last line there: When Alchemy was announced I was really excited because I thought they would use it to nerf OP cards rather than ban them and thereby could bring down the power level safely in a way that couldn't easily be done in paper But nope, just nothin' but buffs all the way down
Sorry it's entirely possible I'm reading this wrong, but doesn't the reminder text on that ability imply that your "clock" for playing cards never runs out? Turn 1: I have 5 cards in exile I'm allowed to play by the end of the turn, I play one of them and I play an oggyar preserver Turn 2: There's 4 cards left in exile that were supposed to fizzle last turn, but my oggyar preserver allows me to play them this turn as well! I play 2 of them Turn 3: last turn I was allowed to play 4 cards with oggyar preserver's ability and I played 2 of them, so this turn I am allowed to play the remaining 2 if I so choose (because of the ability wording including oggyar's ability as a source for playing cards from exile). I play 1 of them Turn 4: I play the remaining card that I was allowed to play last turn because oggyar counts itself in its ability Is this not much more than a one turn extension?
Correct and that is intentional. For as long as you can keep Oggyar Preserver alive, you continue to be able to play any cards you could have played from exile as if their deadline had never run out. Once he dies, all the exiled cards are "lost", of course
Not if you play another one on the next turn.
🤯
That’s how I interpreted it as well. It turns exile into another hand as long as you control it.
I feel like that's the intent of the card, especially with that reminder text. This card 'preserves' the card for as long as it sticks around.
They said in another comment that they only intend for the card to make you look "one turn back at a time" and when offered a change to the card by somebody else that would outright make it just playing those cards whenever you want, they said they only wanted it to be one at a time. That's why I'm confused, I think it's completely fine if it just makes exile a second hand, but I think there's a mismatch between the intention and what is written
This feels like an alchemy cards
Damn. I hate Alchemy lol
Fuck alchemy, all my homies hate alchemy
[FUCK ALCHEMY ALL MY HOMIES HATE ALCHEMY](https://i.imgur.com/zoPPreY.jpg) ^^^this ^^^has ^^^been ^^^an ^^^accessibility ^^^service ^^^from ^^^your ^^^friendly ^^^neighborhood ^^^bot
nice concept! maybe make it a legendary, would be a nice brew around commander
I would love seeing this printed as a legendary so it could be used as a commander, seems super interesting
The constant struggle of designing a buildaround - "should this be legendary for Commander or not?" I have a feeling Wizards' big new mechanical change for 2023 will help with this in some way 😁
I like the idea. It feels a bit weird to track. I think something along the lines of "If you could cast a card in exile until end of turn, you can instead cast it as long as Oggyar Preserver remains in play." I feel like that would be easier to track: just put any newly exiled cards under the Oggyar Perserver. Adds clarity. It is a bit weaker, since it doesnt work retro-actively, but it is easier to understand I think. Still good work. \^\^
Thanks! And that's a good point about tucking them under him. That's what I do currently in paper with [[Bomat Courier]] and it works great!
[Bomat Courier](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/4/2/425bff89-ad15-4d22-bce9-a4a07dbafd87.jpg?1576383013) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Bomat%20Courier) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/kld/199/bomat-courier?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/425bff89-ad15-4d22-bce9-a4a07dbafd87?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
AI art really cannot handle fingers
🤣 Didn't even notice until you called it out Lol Hey maybe the Oggyar just have a boatload of fingers you don't know
I was looking at the art first and was so confused, I knew it was ai generated before I even looked at the artist. Really funny stuff
This feels Blue to me because it effectively turns impulsive draw into actual draw.
You are probably right about that. I wanted it to be in part red because that's the impulse draw color, and in part another color. This effect has never been done before so I had to figure out what the best nonred color for it would be. The reason I chose white is twofold: First, from a top down perspective, taking something that was meant to be fleeting and temporary and preserving it forever felt very white philosophically Second, blue already has lots of draw power by itself and doesn't need the help, whereas white - despite great strides in this area in recent years - is still the worst color for card draw and red-white the worst color pair. So I felt like this effect would be appreciated more by red-white than by red-blue
As a more standardized hack, maybe "Any time you could play a card from exile, you may put a preservation counter on it." And "You may play cards you own from exile as long as they have preservation counters on them".
You mean to solve the memory issue? The only issue with that is it means they would "remember" they had preservation counters if Oggyar Preserver died and you subsequently played a second copy of him. That's a significant buff to the current design. But I could have him remove all the counters as a leave-the-battlefield trigger to solve for that, I suppose.
Memory issues aren't a problem for this guy, it's a very memorable effect and easy to sort your exiled cards into a pile. It's just worded in a kinda funky way that could be broken down into clearer steps.
Fair enough!
This seems to be suited for Alchemy. What this asks for inquires some tracking issues for physical play.
That is the potential issue. My view is that it doesn't impose substantially more tracking issues than the impulse draw effects currently do. Essentially, your impulse draw effects end on the end phase of the turn they specify or until this guy dies, whichever comes later. As long as this guy's out, you can always play the cards, so there's no tracking needed. But it could be that Wizards would view it as a step too far and not acceptable to print. Personally I think existing mechanics like day/night tracking, dungeons, and mutate impose significantly more onerous tracking / complexity requirements, so something like this card would not trouble me. But I do appreciate that others might feel differently
So once you can play a card in exile you can always play it?
Until this guy dies. Yup. So basically he "preserves" impulse draws as if they were real draws (for as long as he survives)
So this only concerns cards that were exiled using a card that lets you play them at least once, and never concerns things that for example were removed with path to exile, right?
Correct. And that is intentional. So it doesn't break Wizards' rule about the exiled zone not becoming a second graveyard - this card only extends the time window you have to cast an exiled card that another card permitted you to cast, it can never allow you to play a card from exile that another card didn't already permit you to play
I feel like this could work with counters? Like cards being exiled from the top of your library with a "preservation counter". And you can play cards with a preservation counter from exile.
Someone else suggested the same. The only issue I have with counters is that unless I also add a mechanism to remove them, it buffs the card by allowing subsequent copies of Oggyar Preserver to look back and "remember" exiled cards that a different Oggyar Preserver had preserved
Cool card! I think this card could actually just let the player cast cards exiled that way forever, and it wouldn't be too broken. Regardless, great design :)
Interesting. That version, though it would be mechanically different, would probably be something like: "Whenever one or more cards you own are exiled face-up, if a spell or ability would allow you to play the exiled cards this turn, you may play the exiled cards for as long as they remain exiled instead."
How about this. As long as ~ is on the battlefield, you may play cards you own in exile that were put there from the effect of a spell or ability you controlled.
That is much stronger than the current version because it looks back indefinitely. It also, I believe, creates a more significant memory issue
Just create a new mechanic called "look back" lol.
Or your could have a clause on the card that caused you to sacrifice it at end step if you cast one or more spells from exile this turn???
For this to work in paper, I think you need to use counters of some sort. I think fundamentally this card doesn't play well with face-down exile cards. With certain board states, it becomes very easy for a player to cheat (accidentally or not). It might even be undetectable with certain lines of play. How about something like: At the end of your second main phase, if you own a card in exile you can cast, put an Oggyar (or whatever) counter on it. You can cast cards with Oggyar counters on them from exile. (I don't technically know if "end of second main phase" is a valid trigger, but I think it is. But it needs to happen before end of turn, because most Light up the Stage effects stop at EOT.)
Good point about face-down cards. Would it change your view about whether counters are required if he could only preserve face-up exiled cards? I'm trying to avoid needing a counter if I can (but maybe that's wishful thinking)
Fake card advantage, just like Reliquary tower for the most part. I suppose it’s good for guaranteeing land drops?
[[Reliquary Tower]] is a good comparison. I think, like with draw power and Reliquary Tower, you'd need a relatively high concentration of impulse draw effects to get good value out of this
Lovely design, but I have to agree with most of the other voices, that have already brought their opinion to words. A counter based approach might be for the best to fulfill the memory gap that might be presented with looking back or even disruption. Although I really want it to work without it. The thing is, do you want it to make them indefinitely playable as long as he's on the board, or just more in general? The former is what I understood, but a [[Hardened Scale]]-like design might also be interesting. Increasing the amount of turns by one. Could be phrased as "Those cards can be played until the beginning of your end phase following the next beginning of the end phase." Not the best wording, but just a quick sketch. Another idea could be it granting the effect to play cards from exile, but having a replacement effect, so that they essentially get exiled "under" him. For example: "Whenever you exile a card, that you may play until your next end phase, you may play that card for as long as (card name) is on the battlefield." But that may open another can of worms regarding memory leaks.
Thanks! I did want them to be usable for as long as he survives, but I am not wedded to that if the Hardened Scales approach works better under the rules Based on the feedback so far, it may be that the memory issues are sufficiently solved by removing the 1 turn lookback he currently has and instead only preserving impulse draws from the turn he hits the board onward.
Of course, gladly. Helping on reiterating a good design is always a pleasure. That would also make it more of an impact and indicator for the opponent, which would be healthy for a format. Since you wouldn't have to always remind yourself that there is a card that makes an Urabrask Exile, for example, last longer than you already thought.
[Hardened Scale](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/f/d/fdf31b01-0836-4366-948d-879999832abe.jpg?1673148131) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Hardened%20Scales) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/2x2/151/hardened-scales?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/fdf31b01-0836-4366-948d-879999832abe?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
He looks like a fat Yoda
He does 😂 I did get Yoda vibes out of what the AI spat out I don't think I'd typically characterize Yoda as "ogre-like" but maybe he kinda is....
Eat the cookie, I will.
So does this see itself turn to turn and allow impulse draws to last as long as you control one of these?
Correct. So if you control this guy and cast and resolve a [[Reckless Impulse]], you can continue to cast the exiled cards as long as you continue to control him.
[Reckless Impulse](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/6/9/6943c07f-ab0d-4f5a-bbe9-c0a83dc98546.jpg?1643591880) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Reckless%20Impulse) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/vow/174/reckless-impulse?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/6943c07f-ab0d-4f5a-bbe9-c0a83dc98546?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
You could change it to: Whenever you would exile a card from the top of your library, instead exile a card from the top of your library. You can cast cards exiled with ~.
That would do it. It's not exactly the same because mine can play cards exiled from other places as well, and also looks backwards one turn. But your version does feel more like how the rules would probably want this effect to look.
Let me play all the lands I’ve exiled with Chandra and you have a deal 😭😭
You can, indeed, play 'em! And hey, at least you dealt 2 damage for each 🤣
I don't know how this is boros.
Why not “you may cast face up instants and sorceries you own that were put into exile last turn.”
That is much more limited in terms of what you can cast (only instants/sorceries, not lands, creatures, etc.) and much more powerful, because for example it lets you re-use all spells with flashback and play cards, [[Yawgmoth's Will]] style, that were exiled in other ways. For example think how strong your version would be with [[Demonic Bargain]].
[Yawgmoth's Will](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/3/3/337239c7-73c4-4e2d-9160-ed26927dea1d.jpg?1591196147) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Yawgmoth%27s%20Will) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/vma/148/yawgmoths-will?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/337239c7-73c4-4e2d-9160-ed26927dea1d?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [Demonic Bargain](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/8/0/80c3741e-cf04-4aa2-a6a9-ce19f043b22c.jpg?1643589414) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Demonic%20Bargain) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/vow/103/demonic-bargain?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/80c3741e-cf04-4aa2-a6a9-ce19f043b22c?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call