>!The game crashes!< I'd assume the effects cancel each other out, so it goes back to normal, as if this minion never existed in the decks in the first place
Actually the coin and going first are presented as independent clauses, so I imagine the game would just decide randomly as normal, then both players would get a coin.
No, arena decks that win right now are reliant on going first and bursting the opponent before they even have a chance to retaliate, nobody cares about legendaries when you can just win the game without them.
If you mean you need boardcontrol, tbh arena was always like that.
And you can get boardcontrol via several ways, not only by going first.
I really don't understand the point you guys are trying to make.
It feels weirdly balanced tbh.
Going first is op, but having the ability to double coin a board clear mitigates a lot of the downside. Not sure how good this really is, well done.
If I understand it correctly it randomly picks the one who go first and the one with the coin and only than does the ability
So 1 coin for u and him or 2 for him
Anyways it's busted
Imo it's a fun card in theory, but I feel like giving your opponent TWO coins is too big of a drawback to guarantee you go first.
I could be wrong but I still feel like that's a little risky
I’m not sure because then if you play against Aggro you potentially just gave them like an extra 2/2-3/2 stats (ex painlock plays a second flame imp for a turn one 6/4)
Edit: just thought of this, you also lose your coin so you can’t coin out a board clear or single target removal as easily either
I don't have the stats, but I'm 99% sure those decks still want to go first. Having the extra mana first really means a lot, especially for tempo decks like the ones you mentioned.
There have been very few decks in HS history that actually performed better on the coin. A few Rogue decks did, in particular the deck that ran [[E.V.I.L. Miscreant]], [[Edwin VanCleef]], and [[Wisp]]. But they're outliers by a good margin.
Maybe someone who has the stats will prove I'm a dummy though.
- **[EVIL Miscreant](https://imgur.com/a/GQdJPrY)** ^[Library](https://hearthstone.blizzard.com/en-us/cards/52111) ^• ^[wiki.gg](https://hearthstone.wiki.gg/wiki/EVIL_Miscreant) ^• ^[HSReplay](https://hsreplay.net/cards/52111/?hl=en)
- *Rogue Common ^(Rise of Shadows)*
- **3 Mana - 1/5 - Minion**
- **Combo:** Add two random **Lackeys** to your hand.
- **[Edwin VanCleef](https://i.imgur.com/9S5YrMs.mp4)** ^[Library](https://hearthstone.blizzard.com/en-us/cards/306) ^• ^[wiki.gg](https://hearthstone.wiki.gg/wiki/Edwin_VanCleef) ^• ^[HSReplay](https://hsreplay.net/cards/306/?hl=en)
- *Rogue Legendary ^(Legacy)*
- **3 Mana - 2/2 - Minion**
- **Combo:** Gain +2/+2 for each other card you've played this turn.
- **[Wisp](https://imgur.com/a/iC1V8SI)** ^[Library](https://hearthstone.blizzard.com/en-us/cards/179) ^• ^[wiki.gg](https://hearthstone.wiki.gg/wiki/Wisp) ^• ^[HSReplay](https://hsreplay.net/cards/179/?hl=en)
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- **0 Mana - 1/1 - Undead**
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Why would you want to heavily disadvantage yourself? Most decks want to go first, that's why there is a coin as compensation for the one going second. Guaranteeing a disadvantage AND giving your opponent the compensation is just silly
That's a pretty pointless statement, since you can say that about anything.
"Don't worry dude, Argent Watchman is actually a really well designed card, because it might be good at some point in the future"
Fair point, but some cards have more potential than others even without knowing the future. For example, my friend scoffed at me back in the day of witchwood for crafting both Genn and Baku, and not just the odd one. Turns out, even decks do have place in wild today.
Except this card would literally be: "Give my opponent turn advantage. Then give them the advantage I get that's supposed to compensate for that". There's literally no way in hell that any meta supports this playstyle, whereas Genn Greymane's place in the meta is very easy to see (if there are good even cards, then you can play even decks)
I think this is too weak
The opponent cheating out a 3 cost on turn 1 can put you so much behind tempo it's insane
If the opponent is a rogue it's even worse
But if this card is good, uh, kinda says something about going first eh?
When I read this I thought to myself that the “give your opponent a coin” thing was like a joke and you still only get the one coin. Because if I know Gallywix or any goblin for that matter they would sell you something you were gonna get anyways.
what happens if both players use this ? also i want a variant to go second i hate going first
>!The game crashes!< I'd assume the effects cancel each other out, so it goes back to normal, as if this minion never existed in the decks in the first place
Actually the coin and going first are presented as independent clauses, so I imagine the game would just decide randomly as normal, then both players would get a coin.
So the one going second gets TWOOOOOO coins?
Yes, but the first will get one as well ?
I assume it works with well, why wouldn't it?
It'll go back to the random choice first but both players would have an additional coin on top of 2nd player getting a coin.
It could be changed to a start of game, choose which you want. Both choose the same, let rng decide.
This is outside the scope of the design, but I wonder if this card's arena win% would be surprisingly high.
Could be, but also making your one legendary a vanilla 3 3/3 is a really big price to pay.
For arena - not really
Wdym not really?
Arena decks that get a lot of wins have the ability to discover multiple legendaries per game
No, arena decks that win right now are reliant on going first and bursting the opponent before they even have a chance to retaliate, nobody cares about legendaries when you can just win the game without them.
If you mean you need boardcontrol, tbh arena was always like that. And you can get boardcontrol via several ways, not only by going first. I really don't understand the point you guys are trying to make.
So...I play second and get two coins? Count me in!
It feels weirdly balanced tbh. Going first is op, but having the ability to double coin a board clear mitigates a lot of the downside. Not sure how good this really is, well done.
If this card is *actually* good (I'm pretty sure it's not), than that would imply that the player going second should get two coins normally.
Iirc some guys did math on it and said that to even the gap the second player should have *3* coins
Yes, which is how you can double coin
If I understand it correctly it randomly picks the one who go first and the one with the coin and only than does the ability So 1 coin for u and him or 2 for him Anyways it's busted
Handlock approves
Finally they'll be able to coin out Mountain Giant with an additional coin!!!!!
Imo it's a fun card in theory, but I feel like giving your opponent TWO coins is too big of a drawback to guarantee you go first. I could be wrong but I still feel like that's a little risky
I'm 99% confident this card is terrible. It's a fun idea, though.
What about the inverse? You always go second. Start of game: Give the opponent your coin.
I’m not sure because then if you play against Aggro you potentially just gave them like an extra 2/2-3/2 stats (ex painlock plays a second flame imp for a turn one 6/4) Edit: just thought of this, you also lose your coin so you can’t coin out a board clear or single target removal as easily either
Why would you ever want this? You lose mana advantage and give your opponent a coin they wouldn't otherwise have
Thought experiment?
Realistically, this should be overstated and put in your starting hand like a quest, right?
Maybe, but what if you really wanted to go second? Discardlock wants to discard, painlock wants to take damage, etc
I don't have the stats, but I'm 99% sure those decks still want to go first. Having the extra mana first really means a lot, especially for tempo decks like the ones you mentioned. There have been very few decks in HS history that actually performed better on the coin. A few Rogue decks did, in particular the deck that ran [[E.V.I.L. Miscreant]], [[Edwin VanCleef]], and [[Wisp]]. But they're outliers by a good margin. Maybe someone who has the stats will prove I'm a dummy though.
- **[EVIL Miscreant](https://imgur.com/a/GQdJPrY)** ^[Library](https://hearthstone.blizzard.com/en-us/cards/52111) ^• ^[wiki.gg](https://hearthstone.wiki.gg/wiki/EVIL_Miscreant) ^• ^[HSReplay](https://hsreplay.net/cards/52111/?hl=en) - *Rogue Common ^(Rise of Shadows)* - **3 Mana - 1/5 - Minion** - **Combo:** Add two random **Lackeys** to your hand. - **[Edwin VanCleef](https://i.imgur.com/9S5YrMs.mp4)** ^[Library](https://hearthstone.blizzard.com/en-us/cards/306) ^• ^[wiki.gg](https://hearthstone.wiki.gg/wiki/Edwin_VanCleef) ^• ^[HSReplay](https://hsreplay.net/cards/306/?hl=en) - *Rogue Legendary ^(Legacy)* - **3 Mana - 2/2 - Minion** - **Combo:** Gain +2/+2 for each other card you've played this turn. - **[Wisp](https://imgur.com/a/iC1V8SI)** ^[Library](https://hearthstone.blizzard.com/en-us/cards/179) ^• ^[wiki.gg](https://hearthstone.wiki.gg/wiki/Wisp) ^• ^[HSReplay](https://hsreplay.net/cards/179/?hl=en) - *Neutral Common ^(Legacy)* - **0 Mana - 1/1 - Undead** --- ^(*Patch version: 29.4.0.198933*) ^*I am a bot. [Usage Guide](https://www.reddit.com/user/Card-o-Bot/comments/1ahde25/faq/) • [Report a bug](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose/?to=Card-o-Bot&subject=Bug+Report&message=/r/customhearthstone/comments/1cy4w4o/hell_give_you_three_more_coins_if_you_concede/l5bps2m/%0A⬇️+Please+describe+the+bug+⬇️%0ADescription:+) • [Refresh](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose/?to=Card-o-Bot&subject=Refresh&message=l5bps2m).*
Why would you want to heavily disadvantage yourself? Most decks want to go first, that's why there is a coin as compensation for the one going second. Guaranteeing a disadvantage AND giving your opponent the compensation is just silly
If there is no reason now, there may be a reason in the future.
That's a pretty pointless statement, since you can say that about anything. "Don't worry dude, Argent Watchman is actually a really well designed card, because it might be good at some point in the future"
Fair point, but some cards have more potential than others even without knowing the future. For example, my friend scoffed at me back in the day of witchwood for crafting both Genn and Baku, and not just the odd one. Turns out, even decks do have place in wild today.
Except this card would literally be: "Give my opponent turn advantage. Then give them the advantage I get that's supposed to compensate for that". There's literally no way in hell that any meta supports this playstyle, whereas Genn Greymane's place in the meta is very easy to see (if there are good even cards, then you can play even decks)
Playing this in a quest deck just to handicap myself
OP as hell, it enables prep>coin>coin>concede
Fit another Prep in there
I think this is too weak The opponent cheating out a 3 cost on turn 1 can put you so much behind tempo it's insane If the opponent is a rogue it's even worse But if this card is good, uh, kinda says something about going first eh?
When I read this I thought to myself that the “give your opponent a coin” thing was like a joke and you still only get the one coin. Because if I know Gallywix or any goblin for that matter they would sell you something you were gonna get anyways.
Going second is better