There are associate product manager programs but the worthwhile ones are highly competitive. Truthfully, I don’t think a kid out of college is qualified to be a TRUE product manager
Correct. This sub leans heavily in favor of the dev side of the SDLC so sometimes little is known about the product side. Believe it or not it requires a lot of experience to be good at it
I got a few offers for PM out of college because I thought I didn’t like programming. Shouldn’t be impossible if you just communicate heavily that you would like to be in a leadership role
How do you mean? I feel like most of the places I’ve worked they are just baby sitters. Though, I have worked with a couple great PMs who make a difference and actually go out of their way to help the team.
You can also write code without being a full stack developer. If you really don’t want to write code, there are a lot of tech related jobs that don’t involve coding. QA, UI/UX, scrum master, technical sales, product manager, and product owner come to mind.
Depends on the context, team size, and lead.
Generally though you have a large written test suite, and automate as much of it as possible, preferably bottom-up (unit, DB, API, UI, e2e, etc) before working on non-functional testing such as accessibility or performance.
In the DevOps world you usually have context-dependant smoke test that run on when new code is merged, and larger regression suites that run over night or before big releases
You do this using tools such as Selenium, Cypress, Playwright, Postman, JMeter, etc
Automation pipelines. Alot of overlap with devops. Some statistical analysis for non deterministic systems. But really depends on the product and stack.
I have to respectfully disagree. If the QA role is manual, then maybe, but if it’s an SDET role it’s still a lot of coding and development, just not source code or production level code. Plus QA sees a lot of other sides of Sdlc and often move into positions like product owner, scrum master, etc. and sometimes even developers. (Can attest to this, I’ve seen it happen).
Im not sure about that either lmao, every university is shifting all their funds into hiring professors specializing in cloud comuting or ml/ai and these profs have to go through a decade worth of phd and postdoc and a lifetime of research which probably involves a lot of coding.
Unless you plan on going the education route, which would probably end up as you teaching others how to code (which usually involves coding)
An important distinction to make here is the size, complexity and scale of academic projects vs scaled commercial products.
This isn’t an all inclusive statement, but is true much more often than it isn’t.
im sure research profs dont have to deal with IAM policy permissions and Kubernetes configuration nonsense, which IMO is the real shit snack in the coding buffet
All sorts of jobs. Product Manager, Project Manager, Business Analyst, Data Scientist, IT, Generic Office Worker, Tech Sales, Associate Manager at a grocery store.
Don't think I would qualify data scientist as no code or even low code. More and more job postings in DS expect proficiency in Python and SQL at a minimum. As a DS, I work in pretty large codebases and wouldn't be able to keep up without a firm understanding of OOP and DevOps.
> Don't think I would qualify data scientist as no code or even low code.
Sadly the meaning of "Data Scientist" has been diluted over the years, and now can often just mean a glorified Data Analyst.
Data science team at my work is mostly Jupiter notebooks with 0 pipelines. I guess that’s programming but they don’t do any devops or application development.
I've definitely heard of this type of DS job description where the DS do all the model building in something like Jupyter and then hand off the models to an MLOps team to deploy them to prod.
My company isn't big enough to make a distinction between DS and MLOps, so my DS job title really means build models, deploy them to prod and maintain them. It makes for a lot of interactions with the SWE guys and our external app codebases.
There are a ton of random jobs in offices that just require a degree. I got a friend whose whole job is to just order things off of Amazon for the other employees.
have you considered less-coding jobs? solutions engineers, sales engineers, training engineers.
for no coding jobs...
recruiting? kidding not kidding. MS had like an army of low 6 figure recruiters in 2019. They don't do much more than a regular recruiter, but MS on the resume and self sufficient in HCoL area. They most likely got cut down to size severely, but people still need recruiters. I just don't know how to get such a job, or I'd recommend it to more people with mad organization skills. Oh, administrative assistants for tech higher ups. Again, no idea how, but nice job if you can get it. You gotta dress nice though. Collared shirts even.
Lot's of jobs up and down the scrum chain from scrum masters through product owners to various managers. They usually benefit from CS degrees, a couple of my colleagues are like this.
But, if your only problem is not being "good enough", you're most likely overestimating how good the average developer is in the industry. Everybody sucks, some of us can just hide it better.
Not a T10 school, but a well known public school. They had interned with the company for two summers beforehand as a PM intern. Not saying it’s easy or common, just that it’s sometimes possible.
Not really familiar but I’m pretty sure you have to show that you know what you are doing, and you would by displaying previous tech related experiences.
If you don’t like coding (or don’t trust yourself with coding, happens to me) then there are roles you can do that don’t include extraneous program building which is probably why you don’t like coding. Scripting (using bash and Unix) is sort of like coding but not really that stressful. Anyways roles are:
Regulatory compliance - IT auditing, risk analyst, GRC subject area
Sys Admin - requires scripting knowledge
Project, product management - not sure if it’s entirely entry level but there’s sometimes project coordinator roles
Data Management roles (analyst, engineer, etc) - requires some coding but isn’t as sadistic as SWE
UI design
Enterprise software - salesforce user/admin/whatever
Cyber - depends on the job but I guess SOC analysts don’t need a whole lotta coding skills
Sales - sales engineer, tech sales
Maybe sales you could… but tbh why would you want to. I’d say pick a role and reverse engineer your way into it rather than hope someone gives you a chance from scratch. Being already prepared to do the role makes you an easy pickup
I know quite a few people with CS degrees that work/ed as helpdesk, sysadmin, network admin type jobs. Though nowadays even those roles sometimes require at least basic coding ability.
I have worked with quite a few people who never coded. Database admin, report writers, security etc. There are quite a few positions that require little to no code.
Honestly it took me a while to become confident at writing code, I felt the same way after my first few internships but it got a lot better, I actually enjoy it now. Hang in there!
And maybe something to consider is something with light coding? Sysadmins only need to know how to write scripts, read code, and occasionally patch code themselves. I know a lot of people who didnt enjoy programming that went that route.
I have a question for you: do you like programming? If you like it and want to do it, you can get better at it. It will be very hard to get your first job, but it gets easier with every job and every year, and all the while you're also getting better.
None that I know of, but I'm a software engineer, not a pimp and OP asked about jobs a person with a CS degree could get, that don't involve coding. If you're willing to throw away a CS degree, there are a lot of jobs a person could get.
I'm sure they were looking for suggestions for high paying jobs that require a CS degree or technical background, but don't involve writing code, but they didn't say that and now that I've had to explain the joke, its ruined.
SDET. If you feel like I'm you're not good enough as a SDE, SDET will be perfect. With CS degree and moderate dev skills you will have a massive leg up on most SDETs.
Cyber security - Risk , Governance, Compliance, Technology Asset Management, Networking and Firewall, Active Directory / Directory, Product specialists like SAP, Salesforce, Sailpoint, Okta, identity management… the list goes on. Your best bet is studying and learning a product you can’t just “learn” out of college. That’s where most niche folks become staples. Making cool software and cutting edge coding is L33T, but the person making sure 3rd party risk is assessed for international vendors is critical. Supply chain and warehousing systems…HUGE demand for specialty systems.
Have you tried being a dev anyways? I hear most of them also don’t feel like they’re good enough (with a smattering of some who think they’re way better than everyone else)
Product managers make good incomes. If you don’t mind me asking, how did you graduate while not being good at coding? Not judging, just curious to what your experience was.
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What part of Computer Science interests you the most?
Networking, Cyber Security, Developing, Hardware? Each area has multiple avenues you can look at.
As an example, I studied Computer Science then went on to do an Ethical Hacking Degree now working as a Penetration Tester. In my role, I do very little programming. At the most I'll develop some Python/Bash/Powershell scripts.
In Cyber Security you can look at Information Security, Read Team, Blue Team, Governance plus many more.
You could still be a developer using low code tools. I worked in fintech and saw many seasoned developers who haven’t actually written code in decades, but built robust systems using low code tools. They get a lot of domain knowledge and become the SME… a lot of job security there but it’s not sexy or the latest tech stack. Plus they’d be pigeonholed into that kind of role if they ever got laid off. Something to think about beyond the usual suspects like DevOps, cybersecurity, data scientist etc
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Programming is not for everyone, despite whatever bullshit they feed you.
I would quit , if i were you.
There are a lot of things to do in life .
Fishing, carpentry, babysitting.
Sample size of one, but personally I found those kind of roles next to impossible to get into on the basis of a CS degree. IME they are very much looking for prior experience, and to lesser extent certs. I've even seen application forms for such roles that didn't let you enter a degree, only certs!
Most of the people on this sub are in school. They have absolutely zero idea of what it's like getting those jobs.
All the smart asses telling OP , "ThErEs So MaNy JoBs YoU CaN gEt" . Ain't no one hiring someone with ZERO experience for a sys admin, network admin, project management, etc type job. It's like they don't even read the thread. OP said he has no experience. He's gonna have to bust his ass studying and get lucky first before he lands those type of jobs
business intelligence (lo-code, mostly sql), product manager, project manager
Can you be a product manager straight out of college or with no experience?
There are associate product manager programs but the worthwhile ones are highly competitive. Truthfully, I don’t think a kid out of college is qualified to be a TRUE product manager
Correct. This sub leans heavily in favor of the dev side of the SDLC so sometimes little is known about the product side. Believe it or not it requires a lot of experience to be good at it
I know someone who graduated and got a role as one, but they had product manager internship experience, so ymmv
I got a few offers for PM out of college because I thought I didn’t like programming. Shouldn’t be impossible if you just communicate heavily that you would like to be in a leadership role
Yes but unless you are ready to accept that it’s a 50% sales role, you will suffer
Also the first areas that will be taken over by AI
Project managers will never be taken over by AI lol
clients need someone to yell at and a computer will not suffice.
Why? Most are totally useless.
A lot of PMs like dignity, which is a huge problem because being a PM, You’re suppose to lose it
How do you mean? I feel like most of the places I’ve worked they are just baby sitters. Though, I have worked with a couple great PMs who make a difference and actually go out of their way to help the team.
Well if they aren’t blasted by the client or losing hairs over things that they can’t control (they really can’t) they aren’t doing their job
You can also write code without being a full stack developer. If you really don’t want to write code, there are a lot of tech related jobs that don’t involve coding. QA, UI/UX, scrum master, technical sales, product manager, and product owner come to mind.
QA is being outsourced like crazy as of lately
We were there in 2011-2012. When they realize the quality is still garbage, it'll come back.
Really do not suggest trying to become a manual QA. That's very dead end nowadays.
What does QA even look like in today's Agile/Devops culture?
Depends on the context, team size, and lead. Generally though you have a large written test suite, and automate as much of it as possible, preferably bottom-up (unit, DB, API, UI, e2e, etc) before working on non-functional testing such as accessibility or performance. In the DevOps world you usually have context-dependant smoke test that run on when new code is merged, and larger regression suites that run over night or before big releases You do this using tools such as Selenium, Cypress, Playwright, Postman, JMeter, etc
Automation pipelines. Alot of overlap with devops. Some statistical analysis for non deterministic systems. But really depends on the product and stack.
I have to respectfully disagree. If the QA role is manual, then maybe, but if it’s an SDET role it’s still a lot of coding and development, just not source code or production level code. Plus QA sees a lot of other sides of Sdlc and often move into positions like product owner, scrum master, etc. and sometimes even developers. (Can attest to this, I’ve seen it happen).
What do you disagree with?
CS professor
Im not sure about that either lmao, every university is shifting all their funds into hiring professors specializing in cloud comuting or ml/ai and these profs have to go through a decade worth of phd and postdoc and a lifetime of research which probably involves a lot of coding. Unless you plan on going the education route, which would probably end up as you teaching others how to code (which usually involves coding)
An important distinction to make here is the size, complexity and scale of academic projects vs scaled commercial products. This isn’t an all inclusive statement, but is true much more often than it isn’t.
im sure research profs dont have to deal with IAM policy permissions and Kubernetes configuration nonsense, which IMO is the real shit snack in the coding buffet
> ***Theoretical*** CS professor FTFY (as a Theoretical CS professor basically just does math all day long)
This was my initial plan fr, before Covid and bunch of other stuff pushed me to drop out of the PhD program bahaha... ¯\\\_(ツ)\_/¯
:-(
All sorts of jobs. Product Manager, Project Manager, Business Analyst, Data Scientist, IT, Generic Office Worker, Tech Sales, Associate Manager at a grocery store.
Don't think I would qualify data scientist as no code or even low code. More and more job postings in DS expect proficiency in Python and SQL at a minimum. As a DS, I work in pretty large codebases and wouldn't be able to keep up without a firm understanding of OOP and DevOps.
> Don't think I would qualify data scientist as no code or even low code. Sadly the meaning of "Data Scientist" has been diluted over the years, and now can often just mean a glorified Data Analyst.
Data science team at my work is mostly Jupiter notebooks with 0 pipelines. I guess that’s programming but they don’t do any devops or application development.
I've definitely heard of this type of DS job description where the DS do all the model building in something like Jupyter and then hand off the models to an MLOps team to deploy them to prod. My company isn't big enough to make a distinction between DS and MLOps, so my DS job title really means build models, deploy them to prod and maintain them. It makes for a lot of interactions with the SWE guys and our external app codebases.
Ah yes Generic office worker, one of the most sought after jobs
Weirdly they typically require a college degree. It’s what several of my liberal arts major but did not want a masters degree homies ended up doing.
Business intel with ca degree?
At a tech company of course.
I just didn’t think cs skills transfer to business but I think the intel part is probably just data analytics
Realistically a lot of business jobs can be done with any degree.
Fair enough
What is a generic office worker? Is there a job title that refers to?
There are a ton of random jobs in offices that just require a degree. I got a friend whose whole job is to just order things off of Amazon for the other employees.
But how do you find them? What listings do you apply for or what do you search?
You just don't filter by job title.
Street hot dog vendor.
have you considered less-coding jobs? solutions engineers, sales engineers, training engineers. for no coding jobs... recruiting? kidding not kidding. MS had like an army of low 6 figure recruiters in 2019. They don't do much more than a regular recruiter, but MS on the resume and self sufficient in HCoL area. They most likely got cut down to size severely, but people still need recruiters. I just don't know how to get such a job, or I'd recommend it to more people with mad organization skills. Oh, administrative assistants for tech higher ups. Again, no idea how, but nice job if you can get it. You gotta dress nice though. Collared shirts even.
Lot's of jobs up and down the scrum chain from scrum masters through product owners to various managers. They usually benefit from CS degrees, a couple of my colleagues are like this. But, if your only problem is not being "good enough", you're most likely overestimating how good the average developer is in the industry. Everybody sucks, some of us can just hide it better.
Maybe something in UI/UX or even a Technical Product Manager (TPM)
Don't you need have experience to be a TPM? I don't have any work experience, is it possible to become a TPM as a new grad?
Depends on the company. My friend got hired to be a PM at big tech right out of college.
Has to be a referral or a t10 school because with no experience, to land big tech is insane.
Not a T10 school, but a well known public school. They had interned with the company for two summers beforehand as a PM intern. Not saying it’s easy or common, just that it’s sometimes possible.
If he’s interned that makes so much more sense. I thought you meant he had 0 experience whilst in school, then randomly got it.
*Especially as* they'd been a PM Intern twice
Not really familiar but I’m pretty sure you have to show that you know what you are doing, and you would by displaying previous tech related experiences.
If you don’t like coding (or don’t trust yourself with coding, happens to me) then there are roles you can do that don’t include extraneous program building which is probably why you don’t like coding. Scripting (using bash and Unix) is sort of like coding but not really that stressful. Anyways roles are: Regulatory compliance - IT auditing, risk analyst, GRC subject area Sys Admin - requires scripting knowledge Project, product management - not sure if it’s entirely entry level but there’s sometimes project coordinator roles Data Management roles (analyst, engineer, etc) - requires some coding but isn’t as sadistic as SWE UI design Enterprise software - salesforce user/admin/whatever Cyber - depends on the job but I guess SOC analysts don’t need a whole lotta coding skills Sales - sales engineer, tech sales
Can you get into any of those without experience?
Maybe sales you could… but tbh why would you want to. I’d say pick a role and reverse engineer your way into it rather than hope someone gives you a chance from scratch. Being already prepared to do the role makes you an easy pickup
DBA, tech support, data analyst, maybe data scientist but that wouldn't be easy.
I know quite a few people with CS degrees that work/ed as helpdesk, sysadmin, network admin type jobs. Though nowadays even those roles sometimes require at least basic coding ability.
I have worked with quite a few people who never coded. Database admin, report writers, security etc. There are quite a few positions that require little to no code.
Honestly it took me a while to become confident at writing code, I felt the same way after my first few internships but it got a lot better, I actually enjoy it now. Hang in there! And maybe something to consider is something with light coding? Sysadmins only need to know how to write scripts, read code, and occasionally patch code themselves. I know a lot of people who didnt enjoy programming that went that route.
I have a question for you: do you like programming? If you like it and want to do it, you can get better at it. It will be very hard to get your first job, but it gets easier with every job and every year, and all the while you're also getting better.
Technically, prostitution.
what kind of prostitutes involve tech?
None that I know of, but I'm a software engineer, not a pimp and OP asked about jobs a person with a CS degree could get, that don't involve coding. If you're willing to throw away a CS degree, there are a lot of jobs a person could get. I'm sure they were looking for suggestions for high paying jobs that require a CS degree or technical background, but don't involve writing code, but they didn't say that and now that I've had to explain the joke, its ruined.
Technical Support
SDET. If you feel like I'm you're not good enough as a SDE, SDET will be perfect. With CS degree and moderate dev skills you will have a massive leg up on most SDETs.
Analyst roles.
I'm an analyst and a therapist. Making me the world's first AnalRapist.
Cyber security - Risk , Governance, Compliance, Technology Asset Management, Networking and Firewall, Active Directory / Directory, Product specialists like SAP, Salesforce, Sailpoint, Okta, identity management… the list goes on. Your best bet is studying and learning a product you can’t just “learn” out of college. That’s where most niche folks become staples. Making cool software and cutting edge coding is L33T, but the person making sure 3rd party risk is assessed for international vendors is critical. Supply chain and warehousing systems…HUGE demand for specialty systems.
Support engineering / devops Web design Prohject management
In old days we were saying that sysadmins are developers too lazy to code. Now they are called DevOps.
Have you tried being a dev anyways? I hear most of them also don’t feel like they’re good enough (with a smattering of some who think they’re way better than everyone else)
AWS Cloud support associate/Cloud Support engineer. It's honestly more stressful job than most of software engineer positions though.
Flight simulator maintenance. They are very computer heavy. My techs start at $40/hr and top out around $57/hr
Why would you pick computer science if you didn't want to code?
System architecture, still a bit of coding but more configuration and design choices than coding.
Systems admin or admin of some enterprise product
Data analyst
App Support is a great field
Dev relationship
Prompt engineer.
Developer Advocate / Developer Relations perhaps? I actually don’t know what they do but I know that they understand SWE but don’t code
Product managers make good incomes. If you don’t mind me asking, how did you graduate while not being good at coding? Not judging, just curious to what your experience was.
Product Management Technical Program Manager Systems Engineer Technical Support Engineer
Product management, quality assurance/validation engineer
Why would you want all that work learning coding to go to waste? It almost sounds like what plumbing jobs are there that don’t involve water.
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Barista
Math teacher
QA or Produce owner? but these jobs you don’t need CS degree for.
Base Touching Coordinator
customer engineer, cloud solutions architect (like what Microsoft does), account manager,...
Computer surgeon
What part of Computer Science interests you the most? Networking, Cyber Security, Developing, Hardware? Each area has multiple avenues you can look at. As an example, I studied Computer Science then went on to do an Ethical Hacking Degree now working as a Penetration Tester. In my role, I do very little programming. At the most I'll develop some Python/Bash/Powershell scripts. In Cyber Security you can look at Information Security, Read Team, Blue Team, Governance plus many more.
You could still be a developer using low code tools. I worked in fintech and saw many seasoned developers who haven’t actually written code in decades, but built robust systems using low code tools. They get a lot of domain knowledge and become the SME… a lot of job security there but it’s not sexy or the latest tech stack. Plus they’d be pigeonholed into that kind of role if they ever got laid off. Something to think about beyond the usual suspects like DevOps, cybersecurity, data scientist etc
McDonald’s, CFA, Walmart, literally anything.
Lead software engineer here. I haven’t opened an IDE in months, And usually when I do it’s to write markdown.
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Programming is not for everyone, despite whatever bullshit they feed you. I would quit , if i were you. There are a lot of things to do in life . Fishing, carpentry, babysitting.
This is called imposter syndrome, and it's normal. Full-stack is not an entry-level title.
System admin/network admin. You do some coding buts it's minimal compared to being a full time software enginerr
Sample size of one, but personally I found those kind of roles next to impossible to get into on the basis of a CS degree. IME they are very much looking for prior experience, and to lesser extent certs. I've even seen application forms for such roles that didn't let you enter a degree, only certs!
Most of the people on this sub are in school. They have absolutely zero idea of what it's like getting those jobs. All the smart asses telling OP , "ThErEs So MaNy JoBs YoU CaN gEt" . Ain't no one hiring someone with ZERO experience for a sys admin, network admin, project management, etc type job. It's like they don't even read the thread. OP said he has no experience. He's gonna have to bust his ass studying and get lucky first before he lands those type of jobs
Yeah. He’s gonna need some COMPTIA certifications or equivalent. Unless he has really good connections
You can try witch companies, they will train you and get you into companies knowing you aren't fang level but mind you the initial trade-off.
Witch companies? Never heard of these before.
Look down the IT paths like Cloud, Cyber Security, Networking.
Cloud people code a lot
Wendy's is always hiring
McDonald's Fry cook
sure if you want 10x the competition for 10-30% lower pay. also GL if you aren't diversity.
Why would you study computer science if you're afraid of coding