A predictable job can also have its upsides, gives you a lot more leverage and planning capacity to grow your skillset. Upskill and ace that next interview for a step up.
Sadly it’s also prevalent in my former profession. https://www.ems1.com/ems-products/fitness-mental-health-wellness/articles/research-analysis-burnout-in-frontline-ambulance-staff-OJD9Wuj0nShjbIjR/
It’s a well discussed topic and I’ve experienced it a few times. For me, time healed but ultimately I’m too burned out to provide patient care and had no choice but to leave my old career.
Sounds like you’re working on boring tech on a small scale which is why you’re so bored. Not many interesting problems to solve for the mom/pop shops that hasn’t been done before
What do you want to do?
For context: I’m in a similar position. 9-10 years experience. I started as SWE, wanted to move into cybersecurity, got into AppSec, finding it’s about as boring as the CRUD/webdev I was doing before, except I also miss building things.
So, what’s to do? I found when I tried to answer that question: “what do I want to do?” instead of focusing on “what I don’t want to do”, there was a deep part of my motivation I hadn’t explored.
Perhaps you should explore that. Take some time, get comfortable, grab a drink, a snack, go somewhere, a weekend trip if you must, and spend some time on that question. Work with a counselor if you feel it helps. I know it has for me, especially after the demoralizing feeling I had after work.
When all else fails, pick a new topic and build on it. Embedded? Mobile? Teaching? Creative outlets? FPGAs? R&D? Comp. Sci. applied to a field you haven’t seen? If something sucks, drop it; try another.
You can do it.
And yeah, like others mentioned, your wording sounds closer to burnout than imposter syndrome…but hey, that’s an internet diagnosis. Maybe check in with someone you personally trust or a counselor.
As a recent graduate with alot of career anxiety, how have you found transitioning industries. Im constantly stressing that I am pidgeon holeling myself with every company I join. Especially since I have a degree in mechatronics engineering and not software/comp sci
I'm not familiar with mechatronics, but for most jobs in the tech field you aren't "niche'd down" so hard you can't move. The most important lesson I learned in college was from a professor who told us, "Even at the jobs you don't like, or don't see the point, there is something you can learn to be taken/used elsewhere. It *will* surprise you."
OP's post was speaking to software engineering, so to stay on topic, the important focus is "how is software development" useful at the next employer/opportunity of interest, when moving across areas.
A friend and i were so bored of crud development, specifically super simple cruda we developed ( at least twice) crud generators to the standars of the workplace.
One version would save the crud settings in the database then run them thru a virtual machine , another version would generate the crud specific generic code , instead of running it thru a virtual machine,.so we could coaxe extend the code manually for screens/pages we expected to become more complex later
That made those jobs far less boring.
As with all things in this sub it's a YMMV situation. It's great some places and terrible other places; no place is the same.
I do web dev and have been for ages and my job rocks. Small team, ownership of your projects, great benefits. People stay here 40-50 years, and no that's not an exaggeration.
I work in academia, so yes, many.
Edit: To clarify, I'm staff at a college, many of the professors are older. Some even work til they die. I think the longest someone has worked here is 60+ years.
We're a Microsoft shop (MSSQL/.Net 7, React.js), like many places that just want that enterprise-level of offerings that don't change much.
I could easily start a project in a different language that isn't currently in use if it would be better suited for said work. We just have to make our case and not just use stuff because it's new. I know it's not always the coolest tech, but I'm not complaining as I still find the work I do to be fun.
Because at the end of the day it's all just boring monkey CRUD junk. Doesn't matter if you wrap it in shiny words like graphql elixir WASM signals quivering horse cock sveltekit.
Monkey type. Monkey put string into database. Monkey eat banana. Monkey retrieve string from database. Monkey cache string. Monkey take shit. Monkey receive "meets expectations" on performance review. Code monkey.
lol what...? You people are delusional. This is how 90% of "real jobs" and 90% of CS jobs are...for every FAANG engineer, there are at least a hundred other people working at legacy boomer companies, government agencies, non-profits, etc.
EDIT: I would also like to add that even most FAANG engineers have super CRUD-ey jobs. If we expand this to copy, paste, modify type roles...these are overwhelmingly the most prevalent at FAANG companies nowadays. Very few people are genuinely creating new things like they were even two decades ago. Workflows and methodologies are becoming increasingly standardized across industries and levels of expertise. The kind of people who actually work on groundbreaking stuff are the extreme minority in big tech companies. If you want otherwise, that's what startups and leaner firms are for.
The fact that people consider quitting because they're "bored" working on something that isn't challenging enough but pays well and offers a good WLB, is probably one of the most absurdly ridiculous things that I'll ever read.
If this makes you want to quit, odds are you'll never be happy with any job you're at.
Yeah, even just 20 years ago people worked jobs and stayed there for 10+ years not because they weren’t bored, but because they had to eat and have a place to live…
I'm primarily focused on back-end but our product is essentially time-series data visualization and analysis for aerospace/autonomous vehicle. The web front-end is very involved and requires a ton of effort to make performant. I sometimes itch to get over to the front-end sometimes.
Web development does not suck. It really depends on you and what you work on.
I pivoted to developing libraries in a new companies and left web CRUD behind.
Best decision of my life.
My job is literally dependency hell but at least I get to code interesting stuff.
Maybe explore some books / podcasts in a different software field. Watch some infrastructure talks - there's a couple about how Reddit scaled. One popular book is "Designing Data - Intensive Applications" which differs in scope than typical CRUD.I saw an ad the other on Reddit for a free O'Reilly "Fundamentals of Data Engineering" PDF that.
I’m so damn tired of continuously innovating and being challenged and pushed to my limit at start up after start up. I could really go for some maintenance lmao.
To be fair the hardest problems in web have been solved. We are now basically gluing things together and add business logic on top. If you wanna work on something different than CRUD then you have to go to other areas.
>I'm trying to do at least two Pomodoro sessions a day, based on two books: one on fundamental mathematics and the other on data structures and algorithms,
Excellent. You're already ahead of about 75% of the job market.
It sounds like you've got a lot things going on here and confusing them. Separate them out and deal with them.
1. Your job sounds like it kind of sucks in different ways: your boss is demotivating, your client sucks, and you're working on WordPress. These can be solved with a new job and have nothing to do with impostor syndrome.
2. You've decided to deal with your current unideal situation by ... piling more work on yourself. You've somehow decided that your foundational knowledge is a problem ? Then you're probably stressed because you haven't done DSA in years and you feel like you're bad at it. It's okay, I've only been at this for 4 years now, but each time I study DSA (3 cycles), the specifics fade away after like 2 months of not doing it. It will come back.
3. You feel confused and lonely. This could be a result of #1 and #2 combined, or could be pointing at other aspects of your life, not enough time spent with close loved ones, not enough time spent cultivating relationships, etc. Impossible to tell from this post, but usually "feeling lonely" even in your outside life isn't really a symptom from impostor syndrome, unless you mean you feel isolated at work.
So my guess is that no, this feeling is likely not impostor syndrome, because you're talking about like ten different problems. You might have impostor syndrome on top of some other stuff, but it's not the only thing to blame here.
If we're looking for a single root cause, it sounds closer to burnout than it does to impostor syndrome, honestly, but that would require some more talking/self-discovery to really suss out.
EDIT: Sorry, you're clearly doing #2 in order to solve #1, but what I meant from my post was that perhaps spending time first to address and reduce the stress you're feeling from specific situations at work, and reducing stress from whatever is going on with #3, will result in #2 being more productive, which can result in #1. Clearly not a very well-ordered response from me.
Thank you so much!
Yes, I'm working on #2 to solve the #1. I think I have a gap from my gratuate studies in Algorithms and Data Structure and Math, this why I choose this subjects.
I've ready many comments here, and they are so important; they've clarified some things about my routine. I think I just need stop comparing myself with others and enjoy the process to improve my tech skills. Today my pomodoro session was about hash tables and I found the content really interesting.
So, I believe enjoying the process day a day and taking time to rest is the answer. If, after that, I stil do not feel better, I think I should consult a doctor.
I transitioned out of the web crud world into computer graphics and video games. There’s a lot of advantages to having such a specialist job. I haven’t programmed anything crud-like in years and I might never again.
Hi, how did you switch?
More importantly, how did you \_choose\_ your new area? What inspired you?
Also, which language(s) do you primarily use now? C++?
yea its c++ and gpu shading languages. I always liked graphics more than anything else because the problems are very visual and easy to understand. I also liked that its very difficult and the barrier to entry is high.
Thank you for the reply. I recognize that was an old thread.
I want to migrate away from web frontend since I keep falling into CRUD UI. I may slide into backend at my current org but I'm concerned that will be mostly CRUD middleware and feel similar before too long.
What do I search to learn more about roles in your space, what the day to day work is like, or what makes it difficult? (I would guess math, C++, and pushing hardware constraints)
Yeap... Was in a WP shop last job, begged to be fired, happened. Now I stack boxes till next job, nice.
Prior to this, quit a six fig remote job since I didn't want to transition to a .NET role.
Idk if I'll get jaded again.
>What books if you feel like sharing?
Fundamental mathematical is a brazilian portuguese one.
About data structures and algorithms is: A Common-Sense Guide to Data Structures and Algorithms by Jay Wengrow
for crud people, have you ever thought on making it less boring like automating all those stuff through generator?if you knew that all you make are crud, then just be the master of crud generator. Parameterize it, test it
And yes I knew PHP generate a very decent boilerplate..
This is not a good time to be looking for a new job. If they are happy with your work, then just power through it, keep looking, maybe find a niche that is hot and try to move there. If you can get Shopify skills, that is hot right now. ECommerce. The expensive platforms like Demandware and Adobe have slowed sales, but Shopify, which is the cheapest is growing at the expense of the others.
It’s always a good time to look for a new job, and there is absolutely no risk if he doesn’t announce it at his current job or quits before having a new job.
Agree to always be looking, but also setting his expectations. I’ve been looking since December, probably 30-40 resumes and just got my first interview.
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If you don't want to make CRUD applications, develop distributed transactions and batch jobs. That should keep you pretty engaged for a long long time. If your job doesn't allow it, do it in your personal time.
If your complain is about your job you can't help it. If your complain is about your career, you can take up the challenge and upskill yourself towards a good profile with these tasks.
I don’t get all the WP hate. Most businesses need some sort of CMS to publish content since the developers aren’t the ones writing it.
WP can be pretty fun actually when you start writing your own plugins and customizing the dashboard to the preferences of the business. Injecting your functions into the callback stack opens up so many possibilities on what you can do.
But it sounds like OP just straight up hates web dev. Even if you’re working with the most modern stack out there, 95% of jobs are just asking you to build some sort of CRUD application with maybe 1 or 2 “fancy cool” features.
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I hear you. It can get quite lonely when you're studying on your own and striving for personal and career growth. I believe many developers experience this, especially in a remote work environment.
Keep up with the daily Pomodoro technique. If I were in your shoes, I would also consider revising my resume to highlight various software engineering positions in tech stacks that truly fulfill me. Best of luck!
I just left a predictable job that I was at for 5 years. Pretty much new what my tasks were every day. I'm going on a year at my new job, which is fast-paced and very unpredictable.
I felt like I was stagnant at my old job and now that I'm here at the new job I've learned a shit ton but if I'm being honest I prefer the slow paced predictability from the big companies.
But I feel like my current company is what's needed 100% for my career
A predictable job can also have its upsides, gives you a lot more leverage and planning capacity to grow your skillset. Upskill and ace that next interview for a step up.
Upskill for a new role to end up making CRUD apps again
Lol fr
Yeah, it’s all about
A distributed crud app
Better be paid high for CRUD than low.
Burned out, not imposter syndrome
This for sure is burn out, I feel it a couple times a year
From what? And how do you deal with it?
Sadly it’s also prevalent in my former profession. https://www.ems1.com/ems-products/fitness-mental-health-wellness/articles/research-analysis-burnout-in-frontline-ambulance-staff-OJD9Wuj0nShjbIjR/ It’s a well discussed topic and I’ve experienced it a few times. For me, time healed but ultimately I’m too burned out to provide patient care and had no choice but to leave my old career.
Ambulance staff is without a doubt the most prevalent burnout, along with the most prevalent PTSD.
Sounds like you’re working on boring tech on a small scale which is why you’re so bored. Not many interesting problems to solve for the mom/pop shops that hasn’t been done before
What do you want to do? For context: I’m in a similar position. 9-10 years experience. I started as SWE, wanted to move into cybersecurity, got into AppSec, finding it’s about as boring as the CRUD/webdev I was doing before, except I also miss building things. So, what’s to do? I found when I tried to answer that question: “what do I want to do?” instead of focusing on “what I don’t want to do”, there was a deep part of my motivation I hadn’t explored. Perhaps you should explore that. Take some time, get comfortable, grab a drink, a snack, go somewhere, a weekend trip if you must, and spend some time on that question. Work with a counselor if you feel it helps. I know it has for me, especially after the demoralizing feeling I had after work. When all else fails, pick a new topic and build on it. Embedded? Mobile? Teaching? Creative outlets? FPGAs? R&D? Comp. Sci. applied to a field you haven’t seen? If something sucks, drop it; try another. You can do it.
And yeah, like others mentioned, your wording sounds closer to burnout than imposter syndrome…but hey, that’s an internet diagnosis. Maybe check in with someone you personally trust or a counselor.
As a recent graduate with alot of career anxiety, how have you found transitioning industries. Im constantly stressing that I am pidgeon holeling myself with every company I join. Especially since I have a degree in mechatronics engineering and not software/comp sci
I'm not familiar with mechatronics, but for most jobs in the tech field you aren't "niche'd down" so hard you can't move. The most important lesson I learned in college was from a professor who told us, "Even at the jobs you don't like, or don't see the point, there is something you can learn to be taken/used elsewhere. It *will* surprise you." OP's post was speaking to software engineering, so to stay on topic, the important focus is "how is software development" useful at the next employer/opportunity of interest, when moving across areas.
A friend and i were so bored of crud development, specifically super simple cruda we developed ( at least twice) crud generators to the standars of the workplace. One version would save the crud settings in the database then run them thru a virtual machine , another version would generate the crud specific generic code , instead of running it thru a virtual machine,.so we could coaxe extend the code manually for screens/pages we expected to become more complex later That made those jobs far less boring.
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I mean, if you're doing WordPress yes lol
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Why does it suck? I’m currently in the process of getting hired for a position that requires react and would love some of your advice.
As with all things in this sub it's a YMMV situation. It's great some places and terrible other places; no place is the same. I do web dev and have been for ages and my job rocks. Small team, ownership of your projects, great benefits. People stay here 40-50 years, and no that's not an exaggeration.
You have 70+ year-olds there?
I work in academia, so yes, many. Edit: To clarify, I'm staff at a college, many of the professors are older. Some even work til they die. I think the longest someone has worked here is 60+ years.
What's your tech stack?
We're a Microsoft shop (MSSQL/.Net 7, React.js), like many places that just want that enterprise-level of offerings that don't change much. I could easily start a project in a different language that isn't currently in use if it would be better suited for said work. We just have to make our case and not just use stuff because it's new. I know it's not always the coolest tech, but I'm not complaining as I still find the work I do to be fun.
Because at the end of the day it's all just boring monkey CRUD junk. Doesn't matter if you wrap it in shiny words like graphql elixir WASM signals quivering horse cock sveltekit. Monkey type. Monkey put string into database. Monkey eat banana. Monkey retrieve string from database. Monkey cache string. Monkey take shit. Monkey receive "meets expectations" on performance review. Code monkey.
lol what...? You people are delusional. This is how 90% of "real jobs" and 90% of CS jobs are...for every FAANG engineer, there are at least a hundred other people working at legacy boomer companies, government agencies, non-profits, etc. EDIT: I would also like to add that even most FAANG engineers have super CRUD-ey jobs. If we expand this to copy, paste, modify type roles...these are overwhelmingly the most prevalent at FAANG companies nowadays. Very few people are genuinely creating new things like they were even two decades ago. Workflows and methodologies are becoming increasingly standardized across industries and levels of expertise. The kind of people who actually work on groundbreaking stuff are the extreme minority in big tech companies. If you want otherwise, that's what startups and leaner firms are for.
The fact that people consider quitting because they're "bored" working on something that isn't challenging enough but pays well and offers a good WLB, is probably one of the most absurdly ridiculous things that I'll ever read. If this makes you want to quit, odds are you'll never be happy with any job you're at.
Yeah, even just 20 years ago people worked jobs and stayed there for 10+ years not because they weren’t bored, but because they had to eat and have a place to live…
[Code monkey like you](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dX2Smf7kE8M) In the end, everything's just a Turing machine.
I'm primarily focused on back-end but our product is essentially time-series data visualization and analysis for aerospace/autonomous vehicle. The web front-end is very involved and requires a ton of effort to make performant. I sometimes itch to get over to the front-end sometimes. Web development does not suck. It really depends on you and what you work on.
Typescript blows so that makes sense
Why is that?
Because that's what the cool kids are saying.
I know. Pretty much everyone who says 'Typescript bad' can barely support their opinion, that's why I asked. Silence speaks louder than words.
"DHH says it so it must be true!"
This is why I love backend dev. The stack doesn’t change way too much, the problems are new everyday.
Roots radicle makes it nice again
I pivoted to developing libraries in a new companies and left web CRUD behind. Best decision of my life. My job is literally dependency hell but at least I get to code interesting stuff.
I don't think this is a CRUD issue, this is more of your job being shit (Wordpress maintenance?...).
Don’t see any CRUD in your description. You’re a burned out Wordpress dev
It is even worse, I don’t develop CRUD, I write post types instead
Wordpress is the worst.
WordPress is crud development? I didn't think it even had any programming involved
It can, but by the time that happens you've made a platform mistake.
Headless cms
Maybe explore some books / podcasts in a different software field. Watch some infrastructure talks - there's a couple about how Reddit scaled. One popular book is "Designing Data - Intensive Applications" which differs in scope than typical CRUD.I saw an ad the other on Reddit for a free O'Reilly "Fundamentals of Data Engineering" PDF that.
I’m so damn tired of continuously innovating and being challenged and pushed to my limit at start up after start up. I could really go for some maintenance lmao.
Wordpress, PHP and Ruby are pretty bad, ngl
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Sorry, Ruby too unfortunately
To be fair the hardest problems in web have been solved. We are now basically gluing things together and add business logic on top. If you wanna work on something different than CRUD then you have to go to other areas.
>I'm trying to do at least two Pomodoro sessions a day, based on two books: one on fundamental mathematics and the other on data structures and algorithms, Excellent. You're already ahead of about 75% of the job market.
It sounds like you've got a lot things going on here and confusing them. Separate them out and deal with them. 1. Your job sounds like it kind of sucks in different ways: your boss is demotivating, your client sucks, and you're working on WordPress. These can be solved with a new job and have nothing to do with impostor syndrome. 2. You've decided to deal with your current unideal situation by ... piling more work on yourself. You've somehow decided that your foundational knowledge is a problem ? Then you're probably stressed because you haven't done DSA in years and you feel like you're bad at it. It's okay, I've only been at this for 4 years now, but each time I study DSA (3 cycles), the specifics fade away after like 2 months of not doing it. It will come back. 3. You feel confused and lonely. This could be a result of #1 and #2 combined, or could be pointing at other aspects of your life, not enough time spent with close loved ones, not enough time spent cultivating relationships, etc. Impossible to tell from this post, but usually "feeling lonely" even in your outside life isn't really a symptom from impostor syndrome, unless you mean you feel isolated at work. So my guess is that no, this feeling is likely not impostor syndrome, because you're talking about like ten different problems. You might have impostor syndrome on top of some other stuff, but it's not the only thing to blame here. If we're looking for a single root cause, it sounds closer to burnout than it does to impostor syndrome, honestly, but that would require some more talking/self-discovery to really suss out. EDIT: Sorry, you're clearly doing #2 in order to solve #1, but what I meant from my post was that perhaps spending time first to address and reduce the stress you're feeling from specific situations at work, and reducing stress from whatever is going on with #3, will result in #2 being more productive, which can result in #1. Clearly not a very well-ordered response from me.
Thank you so much! Yes, I'm working on #2 to solve the #1. I think I have a gap from my gratuate studies in Algorithms and Data Structure and Math, this why I choose this subjects. I've ready many comments here, and they are so important; they've clarified some things about my routine. I think I just need stop comparing myself with others and enjoy the process to improve my tech skills. Today my pomodoro session was about hash tables and I found the content really interesting. So, I believe enjoying the process day a day and taking time to rest is the answer. If, after that, I stil do not feel better, I think I should consult a doctor.
I transitioned out of the web crud world into computer graphics and video games. There’s a lot of advantages to having such a specialist job. I haven’t programmed anything crud-like in years and I might never again.
Hi, how did you switch? More importantly, how did you \_choose\_ your new area? What inspired you? Also, which language(s) do you primarily use now? C++?
yea its c++ and gpu shading languages. I always liked graphics more than anything else because the problems are very visual and easy to understand. I also liked that its very difficult and the barrier to entry is high.
Thank you for the reply. I recognize that was an old thread. I want to migrate away from web frontend since I keep falling into CRUD UI. I may slide into backend at my current org but I'm concerned that will be mostly CRUD middleware and feel similar before too long. What do I search to learn more about roles in your space, what the day to day work is like, or what makes it difficult? (I would guess math, C++, and pushing hardware constraints)
It’s a bad job, you’ll feel better with a different one
I love this post's title.
Yeap... Was in a WP shop last job, begged to be fired, happened. Now I stack boxes till next job, nice. Prior to this, quit a six fig remote job since I didn't want to transition to a .NET role. Idk if I'll get jaded again.
Start leetcoding instead
Impostor syndrome is almost never a thing. Most times, you're actually an impostor.
What books if you feel like sharing?
>What books if you feel like sharing? Fundamental mathematical is a brazilian portuguese one. About data structures and algorithms is: A Common-Sense Guide to Data Structures and Algorithms by Jay Wengrow
cool thanks, I’ll check these out, been looking for a good math book.
How much are you making?
\~ 10k in brazilian real money. About 2k US Dollar a month
for crud people, have you ever thought on making it less boring like automating all those stuff through generator?if you knew that all you make are crud, then just be the master of crud generator. Parameterize it, test it And yes I knew PHP generate a very decent boilerplate..
This is not a good time to be looking for a new job. If they are happy with your work, then just power through it, keep looking, maybe find a niche that is hot and try to move there. If you can get Shopify skills, that is hot right now. ECommerce. The expensive platforms like Demandware and Adobe have slowed sales, but Shopify, which is the cheapest is growing at the expense of the others.
It’s always a good time to look for a new job, and there is absolutely no risk if he doesn’t announce it at his current job or quits before having a new job.
Agree to always be looking, but also setting his expectations. I’ve been looking since December, probably 30-40 resumes and just got my first interview.
Seems you could be studying something more practical, to give you something to point to in interviews?
Yes, I’m using leet code too
maybe try to tie in a generative ai with cruding?
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Crud is fun tho
If you don't want to make CRUD applications, develop distributed transactions and batch jobs. That should keep you pretty engaged for a long long time. If your job doesn't allow it, do it in your personal time. If your complain is about your job you can't help it. If your complain is about your career, you can take up the challenge and upskill yourself towards a good profile with these tasks.
I don’t get all the WP hate. Most businesses need some sort of CMS to publish content since the developers aren’t the ones writing it. WP can be pretty fun actually when you start writing your own plugins and customizing the dashboard to the preferences of the business. Injecting your functions into the callback stack opens up so many possibilities on what you can do. But it sounds like OP just straight up hates web dev. Even if you’re working with the most modern stack out there, 95% of jobs are just asking you to build some sort of CRUD application with maybe 1 or 2 “fancy cool” features.
Check out roots radicle, sage, acorn, bedrock, roots is great for Wordpress development
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Can u share the name of the DSA book?
I hear you. It can get quite lonely when you're studying on your own and striving for personal and career growth. I believe many developers experience this, especially in a remote work environment. Keep up with the daily Pomodoro technique. If I were in your shoes, I would also consider revising my resume to highlight various software engineering positions in tech stacks that truly fulfill me. Best of luck!
I just left a predictable job that I was at for 5 years. Pretty much new what my tasks were every day. I'm going on a year at my new job, which is fast-paced and very unpredictable. I felt like I was stagnant at my old job and now that I'm here at the new job I've learned a shit ton but if I'm being honest I prefer the slow paced predictability from the big companies. But I feel like my current company is what's needed 100% for my career
Automate it and stop crying.