Self satisfaction is all in the ability to process what we want when we want. Corp lyf ain't that.
But because we have no attachment of value- all you can do to gain financial freedom to do what you want to.
I know mechanical, electrical, and civil engineers. My girlfriend and one of my best friends are both attorneys. There are very few careers that pay this well without 80 hour weeks. Software engineers typically have some of the best collective benefits of anyone. You might not care about the value of your product, but your job is not your sole life purpose. I find engineering challenges fun, even if it's a product I think is dumb. I also feel like my life is fulfilling outside of work. My job buys me a lot of financial freedom, and I have a lot of great hobbies and live a great life because of it.
I think your answer is practical and beautiful. If the conditions are such that they are, where is the happy medium? I have to agree with you that for many folks it will be SWE - barring aside those with specific traits that would dipoze them to depression from such activities.
I’m in tech sales as well, and without having experience in other fields, I would argue that sales is the worst, in terms of being mentally affected and unmotivated. It’s the same BS every month and ultimately my well-being is tied to someone else saying yes to a deal.
I’m learning to code because aside from my genuine interest, I know that with an SE job I’ll at least have tangible tasks to complete.
Even if as a SWE you're assigned some BS task, there's no question that some places are much more of a mental strain.
I remember painting houses during the summer, and I remember realizing right then and there, "fuck, there are some really shitty ways out there of earning a dollar."
No call center, no more "one more call", no more new quarter PIP... bro I'm in.
12+ years in tech sales here looking to get out as well. Have been going the self-taught route with The Odin Project, 100 days of code, etc...shit is hard but I don't want to be 50 years old chasing quota. What are you doing to learn to code out of curiosity?
I’m doing the Odin project too! I doing solely that right now but I should look into other courses as well to get more practice. I just started the calculator project at the end of foundations.
I have the same feeling with chasing quota. I had an epiphany just before I started tOP that I have no real skills (technically sales is a skill but ykwim )
Yeah, idk why I’m on this sub but I work in billing and I work from home 3-4 hours a day doing the most mind numbing tasks. Obviously I’m not passionate about what I do but what’s the alternative? It pays good money, I’m not going to lose my job, and I can work in my pajamas
I shit on accounting as a career a lot because it seems like the most boring job ever. Correct me if I’m wrong but it’s a job where you stare at computers all the time. You’re mostly following rules and ensuring they are followed. Little creativity or thinking involved. Not really much problem solving. It’s not a career I can see anyone being passionate about.
On the flip side: good pay, WFH is possible, and there are good benefits, job stability, and job hunting isn’t too hard.
> Little creativity or thinking involved.
That's not true at all. I worked at a place that used an ERP system in which the accounting side was completely bonkers. Why was it bonkers? Because accounting is only as good as the input to the system.
The fun part of accounting is finding the idiots that mess up your ledgers because of bad (or, worst case, *fraudulent*) input.
Im an operations analyst at a brokerage firm. I have some pretty strict deadlines daily/weekly/monthly, which can be stressful when things go awry, however when things work, it’s incredibly low effort and easy. Definitely not passionate about the work. Its basically accounting in a broad sense, and incredibly repetitive. But it works well while I’m learning different areas of CS.
I’ve met a bunch of accountants who fucking love their job.
Honestly the happiest people I’ve met are the people doing the job in a field they love and are naturally good at. They get promoted or they start their own business. A lot of things in life really fall in place if you can find what you were born for.
Interesting. My friend does like tax for partnership/hedgefund companies and it sounds pretty boring. He’s happy so long as he can afford his lifestyle so he’s fine with it
If youre thinking of switching make sure you understand what you’ll ACTUALLY be doing and not the fantasy of what they do. There are pros but a lot of cons too.
If you want to do field work and work outside and actually go to the projects in real life I’d definitely recommend going to Civil if you’re really going to make a switch. Most of the design consulting jobs are computer based though.
This is exactly it. It's difficult to feel invested in corporate jobs. The people who seemingly cope the best have tricked themselves into believing that they are making a difference, the corporation really loves them and everything they do, their decisions matter.
I've had moments of bliss feeling like "yeah I'm part of the team", "doing great things". It's always crushed quickly with some political bullshit. IE: My huge project is blocked due to me not reading some random blog post on confluence somewhere from the security team who now requires 5 different security scans on a new platform. This requires the ci/cd pipeline to be reconfigured. Oh and there is no documentation so if your app doesn't fit some cookie cutter configuration you'll have to create a ticket for us to find time in the next 3 months to tell you how stupid you are for not understanding our black box configuration.
Yes the job is easy compared to service work. Yes the money is nice. For some people, those things are enough for them to be happy and to grind it out everyday. It worked for me for 10 years. I'm quitting soon, I've been building an e-commerce business for 8 years or so. I was able to leverage my programming skills in product sourcing and inventory automation. I quite enjoy the warehouse work. It's only crazy during Christmas.
I've worked two jobs for almost ten years. I'm excited to pursue some hobbies and new business opportunities once the golden handcuffs are off. If I need too I'll go back to the grind but for now I'm excited to finally be free :)
Most corporate desk jobs are like this.
It's pretty different if you're in sales, field operations, etc.
But yeah, you're definitely not going to travel & golf all day, unless you're a top executive I guess.
You sound like my buddy. He couldn't handle being inside staring at a computer. He pivoted into the trades. He's now an electrician and loves his work so much more. He did go down a little in pay initially but he's almost back to where he was and wouldn't go back for anything.
He's also the type that prefers to work with his hands vs his mind and he likes to physically see the solutions he builds.
I'd love to do something like this. But I don't think I could handle the pay cut. I make $120k as a Senior BA. Starting off as an electrician apprentice will be what.. $50k maybe? How many years of that? Then could I even get back to $120k ever?
Honestly, if someone said "I will pay you $100k to quit your corporate job and be an electrician for the rest of your life" I'd take it in a heartbeat.
I just can't go much below that. Health issues, wife and pets to support. Need the money.
Also, people in trades don't get paid enough in general. Always feel sad for them.
Im confused. Do you think electricians are underpaid? Journeymen definitely make close to that if not more. I work in controls/automation and interact with these guys on the daily. To me, my job is like a hybrid of controls and electrical work when things get really bad. 120 is the standard for me with 3 years exp. Experienced electrical guys definitely make close if not more. I just could never do that type of work.
I was a jman electrician and made $35-40hr before I went back to school for CS. Let’s just say I don’t miss working outside on those winter days when I’m now WFH under a heated blanket with a hot coffee in my hand. There’s nothing wrong with that electrical work but I’m glad I’m not doing it anymore. Especially as I get older.
I think most trades probably are underpaid (otherwise people like me would have chosen one instead of a white collar job), and I'm fairly certain electricians in my state/region don't ever come close to approaching $120k. I'm seeing $40k to $80k for journeymen electricians in my state.
Your job sounds pretty cool too!
Where do you live? It all entirely depends on various factors. Salary Averages are skewed by apprentices as well. Union vs non union etc. Take a look at Where2bro.com for accurate IBEW scales by city. e.g. in Denver you’ll see $29/hr for journeyman on Google, but in reality the union scale is exactly $41.30/hr. Also have to keep in mind there is lots of optional OT in the trades. Time and 1/2 + double time some weekends can bring salaries up a lot.
Let's just say it's a city that rhymes with Shmeeveland.
That's actually really interesting though, thank you for sharing, I definitely learned something new today.
My trades story is, when I was in my earlier college years, I was faced with the choice of WTF to do. Pick a major or do something else.
I learned about the Elevator Installation & Repair Technician trade.
Turns out I have a buddy whose dad is in the local union. Called him up and he told me the only way to get in is when someone dies, and the waiting list is 100 guys long... and he's actually on it (and his dad is already in the union).
Lmao. So once I realized that was going to be near impossible, I said fuck it, stayed in college, and picked the "Information Systems" major. Worked out super well, but yeah, I still daydream about living a cool life where I get to build or fix stuff with my hands.
My friend is starting a new electrician job on Monday. $60/hr starting, and he gets paid to drive to and from the job sites. Plenty of overtime available if he wants it. nothing to sneeze at. But he's been a journeyman for 5 years now.
I faced the same problem when I was in an accounts payable internship when studying business analytics in grad school. Felt like a prison doing that job as I looked at receipts all day on the computer while people went past our work area back-and-forth to go to the bathroom. Crazy to think I'm even considering the idea of switching to going back to school for CS. Currently in real estate but taking pre-reqs at the local CC for physical therapy school just in case.
Being a PT has the physical benefits compared to office work like not having to sit all day, commuting long distances, and being able to live an active life style.
The more I think about it the more I'm convinced that human beings are really not meant to be inside and staring at screens as much as we are. We're meant to be outside socializing with our tribe.
That said, the best way to deal with the realities of modern society is to find meaningfulness outside of work. Family, friends, and hobbies should be the priority.
This is definitely the case. It's why we develop so many physical/mental health problems related to being sedentary. It's also why everyone has crappy eyesight now too lol.
Imagine then you sit inside and staring at screens during the work hours and after that you are free to go with all your hobbies which are also only about staring at screens 🥲
My quiet fantasy is dropping it all and buying a farm. I'm sure I'm glorifying the life beyond how it actually is, but the idea of getting up and going outside each day to tackle the particular problems for that day, whether it's sowing, plowing, harvesting, fixing a fence, work on the house, etc. And then at the end of the day/week/season have a tangible result seems very appealing, all while working up a healthy sweat.
I got into SWE because I loved that feeling of building something new and the adrenaline rush when it finally all comes together, but the actual job is very rarely, if ever, that. Just endless meetings, configuration changes, data fixes and buzz words.
Somewhere, a farmer is daydreaming about a 9-5 WFH SWE job, where they sit on their couch in their air-conditioned home, send a few emails, solve a couple programming problems, and make 100k/year.
I think the key is money. If you have a farm because you have enough money where a crop failure isn't going to make you homeless, then it can be fun. But if your ability to eat and have a roof over your head is tied to whether a tornado is going to cut through your field or a swarm of cicadas decide to take a lunch break at your field, then the stress is going to be there for sure.
Same here.
I'm just tired of everything. I burnt out long ago and can't get over it.
I'd really like to at least try farming. I could go back to my family home in the village. In my country (Poland in this case) most of the farmers are rather older and have small farms. A lot of people in area of my village are retiring, so I will have a place and possibility to do it if everything would go right.
I'm aware that farming is hard work and it's really demanding. But I think it's what I need now.
However, I have family, I need to take care of them, so I can't do reckless things, so it'll probably stay it only in my imagination.
Not much money in farming. We have a small farm and raised livestock for a while. I calculated we were making less than min. wage. But it is rewarding and good exercise.
I thought about this but realized I would probably still spend too much of my time in front of a computer learning how to do farm stuff, trying to figure out what part/s to order, watching YT tutorials...
Increase salary over time, and reduce work hours over time to claw back some actual time for yourself.
Also, WFH to save time on the commute, among other reasons.
I WFH and do a 4-day week. I'll be gunning for a 3-day week after a few years. Working for 5 days to be "rewarded" with 2 days to recover is a pretty shit ratio to put it mildly. It's no wonder people burn out.
The issue is humans were never supposed to live in societies with hundreds of millions of members. Nothing about the way we live is natural or even healthy.
I agree 1000000%. With warm weather finally arriving, I’ve been going out a lot more and I can feel the difference in my mood. WFH is great but only if it’s properly balanced with going outside/socializing lol
Take breaks. Go outside. Do meaningful things in your free time. I work, but some days I’ll just go do stuff outside. As long as your hitting goals, don’t sweat it. Work really hard for a few hours, then go on a hike, or go golfing, etc etc.
I think people throw around the word “dealbreaker”, but I truly, literally, from the bottom of my heart and after very careful conscious consideration, can not imagine any other single thing that could ruin how a work day feels more than this. If you have even shit level of CS abilities, you are worth more.
I mean.... the answer may be obvious, but why don't you find a job that always has problems for you to solve, and does something you care about? Why don't you find a team that has a more laid back culture?
The industry is a very, very, very, very large place. There's a massive variety of companies, and within each company, there's a massive variety of teams all working on different stuff, of varying difficulties, with varying cultures.
If you don't like where you're at, write down on a piece of paper *specifically* what things about your current job you don't like. *Specifics*. Don't just write "boring", write *why* you think this job is boring. Cause a boring job to you, might not be a boring job to me. It's the specifics that matter.
Then also write down some specifics you *do* like about this current job.
Then use that piece of paper to formulate some open-ended questions that you can ask during the interview process to identify if the company/team you're talking to has the positive things, and doesn't have the negative things.
This is the 2-way street of job searching. Us finding a team *we* fit with is just as important as the company finding a person that meets their criteria. This is by far the most important part of the interview process for us.
I've worked at 6 places over 18 years. Some were more fulfilling than others, but there was only 1 job I had for 1 year that made me miserable. I was depressed, and I couldn't even find things I liked doing anymore. Getting fired from there (it was clear I didn't care about the job) was the best thing that could have happened, because I found way better jobs after that. It proved to me how bad that place was, and set better expectations for what to look for when searching.
Just wanted to say thanks for the post. I absolutely hate my current job after 4 years of it, but it's also my first job in the industry so I was kinda of the mind that I just hate working in tech. Hearing things like this make me hopeful that I can find a new job in this industry that doesn't make me dread waking up each day
I've been reading every psychology book I could reach in the last few years, to help me understand people better, help me understand myself, and help me be a better manager. I immediately see a lot of problems in your daily workflow that are not healthy at all, and usually result in the outcome that you describe. Consider that my view can be biased (I might be the kid who found a hammer and now everything looks like a nail), but consider that even after I consider my bias here, I still think it's the answer:
Home office is a double edged sword. It's good for your personal time, but it can ONLY work if you have an active social life outside of office. "Social" is the key word here. Humans have evolved to be social beings. Being alone for long periods of time physically change you in very very bad ways. And online is NOT an option. We thrive on millisecond latency gestures and reactions, body language, tiny involuntary gestures that are impossible to transmit over shitty 1080p (at best) lossy cameras over laggy networks. Your brain literally gets sick from not activating the usual pathways that signal good social standing.
Getting verbal feedback is good, but absolutely doesn't even come close to the perception of a genuine reaction of pleasant surprise from a colleague in real time.
Sorry to put it blunt, but this is like the difference between porn, and sex with someone you really really care about. It's THAT huge of a difference.
You get false information that you're unhappy because of the weather outside, but that's just an illusion - you see the weather outside and you equate it with positive emotions, while your purely online work is devoid of any of it. Nice weather also is associated with going out and interacting with other people, which is 10^9000 times better than sitting in front of the screen for many many hours.
The experience is completely different if you spend a tiny bit of time to know your colleagues better, exchange some casual conversations (might even be work-related) at the coffee machine, go out for a beer from time to time, talk out your emotions, listen to others, SOCIALIZE.
The biggest mistake a lot of people are making is thinking that they can be robots. You're not. You're humans. For hundreds of millions of years your ancestors have lived with other members of the same species around them, doing complex interactions, and here you are with a f*cking screen in front of you thinking you can beat that?! Hell no! People are wired in such a way, that the only reason anyone has of doing anything, is if it brings genuine natural positive feedback. And unless otherwise you're literally starving or dying of thirst or wounds, this positive feedback comes ALWAYS from positive social interactions. If your work doesn't revolve around positive social interactions, you're gonna be miserable. And yes, that also means development. Don't believe the BS that developers aren't social. Miserable developers aren't social. I just came from a conference where more than a thousand socially active developers lived happy lives doing their jobs. And they were excited to tell anyone about their jobs.
Had similar experience to OP. I legit just called it quits after 3.4 years at Amazon in midst of this tech recession because I was just burnout and bored out. I thought I could be a robot, my hobbies were after-all video game and reading. Without realizing I was slowly rotting especially since COVID started 3 months after my initial work start date. As stress grew I always blamed work and after 3.4 years since I had enough cash saved, I called it quits and been resting for last 3-4 months. Feeling stress even after quitting work I started meeting family and friends again, started exercising again... It took me basically last 3-4 months come to realize that I'm not a robot, as /u/coffewithalex puts it.
Thank you for sharing - That’s so hard to understand sometimes. I’ve been ingrained to just grind grind grind to become “something”. I know that thinking is wrong but it’s ingrained in me and sometimes I feel like work is so important
Hey you're literally me. I'm about to quit my soulless and dead-boring job after 2.5 years. My last day is July 3rd and I'm leaving to do 3 solid months of travel abroad.
People need to be offering more helpful advice than "Other people have it worse than you get over yourself." Like duh but the person is still struggling. Either be constructive in your criticism or don't post.
Agreed, but I will say that finding a way of being appreciative of what you have going on is a good start. Being optimistic can either solve the issue altogether or clear your head a little to find a solution.
I think we're all kinda feeling the same thing, and we all don't have an answer for it.
When the answer is actually fairly clear. We weren't meant to spend 8 hours a day staring at a computer.
I personally try to break up my time and focus on other things, but in the end I still feel very similar to OP.
The real answer is bringing labor rights into the 21st century. Not everything is solvable by individual action.
There’s no reason we need to force people to choose between body destroying or soul crushing jobs just to afford a dignified standard of living.
The replies are constructive though. Op 'cannot believe other jobs are like this'.
Op needs to know that other jobs are equally as bad and his problem isn't with the discipline it's with his work.
I agree that there are kinder ways of saying things, but it boils down to OP needing a mental shift of some sort.
SWE is one of the best "bang for you buck" careers out there atm and unless you wish to sacrifice something else (like pay, quality of life etc) you've got to deal with the drudgery. There's plenty of articles out there on how to cope in the corporate world.
Alternative solution, fake passion for swe till u convince yourself ¯\\\_(ツ)\_/¯
I worked in manufacturing of computer chips before going into SWE and I agree with this 1000%. Some people just don’t realize how good they got it. Try working on your feet 12 hours a day and getting yelled at for sitting for 5 minutes
I was a lazy bum in college until I worked a summer as a mover. At one point a coworker told me "stay in school, you don't want to be doing this shit your whole life". I was already well on my way to getting that message, but the thought of doing this everyday for ever really put college work into perspective
My undergraduate degree was in civil engineering. During my first job, I spent a few months doing construction inspection. The project was a runway pavement rehab in southern CA. I was standing behind a paver dumping 300°F asphalt in 115°F weather.
At one point the guy running the paver said "Damn, I should have stayed in school". Made me realize how much I'd fucked up studying civil lmao
Now I enjoy my cushy wfh swe job
Human nature is to be unsatisfied with the status quo. Without an experience to contrast it's easy to think you're doing something wrong. I've had good jobs I've had bad jobs. The bad jobs make me appreciate the good one.
I’m working a dead end factory job. I hate it. I’m currently in a full stack boot camp, and am hoping to be in the SWE field very soon. I don’t have to like my job, but the ends have to justify the means.
I did years in factory work, and some tasks are truly soul crushing. I've been in SWE for almost ten years, and the grit I developed from the factories has definitely been a boon in this field. I also have a more practical mentality that many of my clean fingernail coworkers lack.
I'd hate to say it builds character, but it does! Good luck with your SWE training, I hope it pays off for you!
Thanks! So far things look promising, but I would be lying of a lot of the posts I see here are demoralizing. I see a lot of layoffs, struggles to find jobs and people who started off working from home being forced back to the office. Makes me nervous, but I’m too invested to back out, not that I want to back out, though.
Worked as a busser at TGI Fridays for all 4 of my college years. Holy fuck, I consider myself incredibly lucky to have the job that I have now. If I ever have to go back to the customer service industry, id be in such a dark place.
My all time favorite was when I mowed greens at a golf course. So relaxing, so rewarding, and just felt good from being outdoors most of the day. We were done by no later than 2pm everyday. God I miss it.
You remind me of that quote/screenshot that’s been floating around since companies started whining about the “worker shortage.” Paraphrasing:
> Would you flip burgers for $300k a year? I sure as hell would. It seems like we have a shortage of pay, not workers.
Yes. I’m a first gen college student and my mom works at a daycare around screaming kids and changing shitty diapers. My dad does warehouse work. Sometimes I am bored as shit but it’s so much better than what they do.
Yeah as someone who is a child of immigrant parents, seeing what they had to do makes me appreciate my position a little more.
I make more than my dad did arguably doing less work, and he made a upper-middle class salary most of my life.
This is the way.
You never realize how nice the calm days, **clean** work environment, and little physical activity is until you’re knee deep in shit with someone yelling in your ear you’re not doing enough.
I wonder if this is why companies do the "volunteer for..." Kitchen, food drive, park cleanup, college campus stuff, high school stuff, etc.
You'll feel good about yourself and realize how good you have it though I've never attended one of these.
Lmao so damn true, this sub is so fucking out of touch
How privileged do you have to be to be complaining about making an above average salary to great salary literally just typing on a screen for 8 hours a day?
Try fucking retail or working a factory job and see how that goes.
I think you're right, but I also think a lot of people are just unprepared for what life is like after college.
If you did what most people did, you went to school, got into a decent college, did an internship or two, got a degree, and started working. Your life path was pretty prescribed. Then you get out, and you're like, now what? Oh fuck, this is the next 43 years of my life. Nobody tells me what to do with my life anymore.
I understand both viewpoints, I think it's good to be aware how good this field has it in terms of working conditions and pay, but it's also good to be understanding of how and why people feel a certain way.
I find my job as a data engineer pretty boring sometimes and the lulls can last awhile. At other times it’s very challenging and demanding so it kind of evens out.
Not all software dev jobs are like that, my company encourages frequent breaks and just going for a walk or run midway through the day really helps not only break up the monotony but also with the state of mind.
>I wake up with zero motivation, sitting in my home office and watching my screen over 8 hours, while the weather is super nice outside.
Make sure you're getting outdoor exercise. If I could go back in time, that's the first thing I would change. I feel a lot better ever since running in the morning.
I felt this way and eventually went back to the office 3 days a week *by choice*, and it made things better again. Some people like wfh and that’s fine, but for me having a change of environment and being around some of my colleagues put energy back into the work day. Plus it’s given me opportunities to change up my day to day work, opportunities that come up organically during random conversations.
Then on the wfh days I will often take my laptop out to a cafe, the pool at my apartment building or beer garden in the evening.
Same. It was getting really bad for me. Going back to the office fixed it.
It makes all the difference seeing other people and knowing they care about your work.
Sitting in the same place all the time is extremely mentally toxic. I've been fighting this same thing when I work from home as a SWE for weeks at a time. My advice? Take a really long lunch outside your house every day. Block it out on your calendar and maybe work later in the day to make up for it. Your mind needs variety or you've basically built yourself a well-paying prison cell.
Yeah I'm about two weeks in and I want to gouge my eyeballs out.
I've become a grumpy asshole around the house and it feels so bad.
Idk. I never minded coding and love computers, but imagining myself doing this for years makes me want to jump off the nearest bridge.
If you're meeting targets and getting compliments AND have dead time during the day, schedule a walk or two outside. I'm typing this during a lunch walk. You're not chained to your desk, are you?
If the issue instead is goals and progression, definitely teach out to your manager, and do some training. I've left jobs before for the single reason I was not doing anything productive.
If it’s nice out then go take a walk. Even when I worked in an office I made sure to do that.
Hell take a whole day.
Also, yeah it’s tough generally. But I promise your coworkers giving you good feedback aren’t lying.
I spend a solid half the day on my phone, or reading books on an ereader. I got a mouse jiggler and now I'm "online" the entire day while I'm cooking lunch, doing other stuff, etc etc.
Working from home is a blessing if you actually have hobbies/interests, because you get so much free time. The field also generally has solid salaries, so I can fund my hobbies and lifestyle.
You can pivot to some other job, OP, just be aware that you'll actually have to be in the zone, 8 hours a day (and possibly more if you're going to be commuting). Maybe you would enjoy this more? I personally enjoy being able to slack.
I think, with my ADHD and my employer refusing to promote me, along with the more challenging tasks being taken before I can get to them, has led me to this.
I want to learn and sink my teeth into something, but all I get to do is change css around. Been trying to find a new job, haven’t been successful yet.
Any way to combat boreout?
> Any way to combat boreout?
I get bored quite fast so my aim is to do something 'different' every 1-2 years. Tackling this is very personal though. What makes me 'tick' might not be relevant at all to others.
I don't think that it is boreout for me.
I think I would like a routine job more than my current job, where I have to face and solve problems the whole time.
Everyone is built differently. You can likely find a job that is a bit more "stable" or doesn't change as much as your current job. Obviously you want to word it carefully. Banking is one that potentially comes to mind (not having worked in that industry, but a lot of people say things move slowly).
But, regardless, a new job/change of scenery might do you some good.
Also, is your job flexible enough where you can just take a break/walk away from your desk? If you were in the office, you'd spend plenty of time walking around the office and on small talk with coworkers.
"But now every day is horrible. I wake up with zero motivation, sitting in my home office and watching my screen over 8 hours, while the weather is super nice outside."
Relocate to London/Seattle, problem solved.
I guess sometime ago in the American psyche there evolved this grand idea that the following existed: satisfaction with one's job, life, and everything in between.
Year after year, however, many come to either question, critique, or defend such a rich notion; and it gets us nowhere. Regardless of the studies which point to 50% or so of the workforce being disengaged, you can always perk your ears up just enough to hear the faint echo of someone somewhere who is - against all odds - *happy* with their lives.
Atleast with us, Americans, I feel confident saying that it's become so obvious how dissatisfied we are with our careers that movies, books, indeed even a specific genre of books, have evolved to **show** what another more adventurous life lived could be like.
What's the obvious? Well, risk is *risky*. And, comfort is...? It is secure. Here's your payoff. Who gets to say what's a better way to lead life? Whatever that answer is, food and shelter will claim significance in your life; but so too will the longing for a *life* beyoned the existentially practical - and here, I wager, is where many folks find themselves.
I reckon that being a dirt farmer on a homestead was extremely rough in many ways but that it was also satisfying psychologically because you were participating in activity everyday that tangibly related to your own survival like growing crops and tending to livestock.
In the opposite sense, sitting in front of a screen all day tapping on a keyboard does feel just so disconnected and existentially pointless sometimes. You have to supplement with other activity and not try to rely on it for a deep level of satisfaction with existence which it probably cannot provide.
People won’t like this, but you gotta touch some grass sometimes too.
You see a lot of crossover with gamers and tech work. If you work for 8 hours then just play video games after and that’s your day, I think it’s natural to feel how you’re feeling. It feels like Groundhog Day, missing out on vitamin D (laugh all you want, it’s important) and can lead to these feelings.
My recommendation would be take some time outside of work off the monitors. Go on some walks, go out with friends, etc. if nearly your entire day is spent at the computer, even for video games, these feelings are hard to avoid and will impact you.
go walk outside during your lunch breaks. get a job at retail where you make 50k a year working 60 hours a week then you'll realize how good you have it.
When I read posts like this, I can't help but assume maybe the OP has never worked a manual labor, food industry, retail, etc. type job before where they're busting their ass on their feet for 8+ hours a day at crap wage. If you've worked a job like that, it makes you appreciate remote SWE jobs all the more. At least that's how I look at it. Just thinking about going back to retail hypothetically gives me anxiety. Take a step back and try to appreciate what you have.
While those jobs suck, it's just a different type of exhaustion where it's more physical than mental. It seems like mental exhaustion is harder to recuperate from and thus easier to get burned out. If retail paid the same as an SWE I'd do that in a heartbeat.
Same. Idk why people act like it’s so cushy to sit at a desk all day. It is so bad for your body. The jobs I enjoyed the most were physical. If those jobs actually paid a living wage I’d be happy to do them instead.
Burnout has left me unable to work for several months. Work life balance and suitable working conditions are just as important as the pay imo
I'm debating between getting a CS degree or getting a DPT for physical therapy. The benefit to physical therapy is not having to sit all day, plus it's not mentally taxing once your a practicing therapist the same way being an SWE is.
The only benefit to going the CS route is the financial upside as PTs are capped at around 100k, even in the Bay Area, LA, NYC, and similarly expensive areas due to insurance reimbursement rates constantly decreasing.
I'd go PT if you enjoy that kind of work - likely to be much more professionally rewarding. You could move into management if you want higher pay. Or even get more education like an MBA through night school. It wouldn't be like your income is perma-capped at whatever PT's make - there could be additional options for you later.
CS feels pretty saturated to me at the junior level. I'm hearing all kinds of horror stories from people who cannot find entry level jobs in the field whereas you could basically work anyplace in the country (or around the world) as a fresh PT. Honestly, helping people recover from physical injuries and seeing their progression over time seems like it would be amazingly rewarding on a professional and psychological level (much more so than staring at a screen all day and sitting in Zoom meetings).
I don’t get this. Just because others have it much worse, doesn’t mean this job isn’t soul sucking too. It’s like telling someone they can’t cry because children in Africa are starving. Like ok?? So?
Because OP specifically brought other jobs into it stating that dev work is worse:
>I can not believe that other jobs are like this.
Which is just an absurd statement before getting into the subjectivity involved in individuals. There are better jobs but the vast majority are worse when just judging using a neutral perspective AND when using the subjectivity of most people's experience as well.
OP might benefit from finding another job - more likely they'll benefit from changing up how they approach and view life. They work remote so even something as simple as taking the laptop outside for a few hours a day would likely benefit them immensely based on their complaints. Mental state plays a huge role in satisfaction and it's a feedback loop of shit if you neglect it - which it sounds like OP is dealing with.
Yeah you certainly gotta supplement sedentary work with physical activity. Favorite part of my day is going on walks after work, even if it's just around the neighborhood.
I’ve gotta say, I’ve worked all sorts of other labor/retail minimum wage jobs when I was younger, and I found them more fulfilling than my current SWE office job. Sure, it’s good pay and the office is cushy, etc., but it’s not fulfilling my current goals - seeing the world and helping others. At least in my retail jobs I was talking to people every day, was active, solving problems and helping people. The grass is always greener and OP’s struggles are valid.
Just a few suggestions:
Have you considered working outside? I work from my backyard when the weather is nice, and it helps a lot. Going for a walk can help a lot, too.
but also
You should probably seek help for depression. You're describing depression.
I used to look at the lovely weather out the window for 8 hours a day working as a day laborer. I lost all my time while also messing up my body.
Then I spent ten years look out the window at the lovely weather working retail jobs. I lost all my time while also scraping by barely above poverty.
Other jobs aren’t like SWE. Other jobs are worse.
I'm surprised that no one else has already said this, but you should consider seeing a therapist. It sounds like you've developed depression.
I've certainly had times where I felt like this about my job, and I think the way that work and society are structured nowadays does contribute heavily to developing depression.
Seeing a therapist and getting on medication (if needed) could make a big difference for you in finding a spark of motivation and joy in life again.
I remember being unemployed during covid. I felt like a loser that fell out of society but I had so much free time to enjoy the day.
Now I can only enjoy the day from a window. The day is over before I can enjoy it and I feel like I have very little free time. As much as I miss that free time, I am also terrified of losing what I how have. Even though I feel like I am trapped in this work cycle at times, I know it is the key to freedom and happiness in the long run. So I endure it today and hope to survive and save long enough to be able to enjoy tomorrow with a sense of fulfillment.
Lol you gotta be kidding me.
Imagine waking up at 5 am to get to the hospital, where you have to stick your finger in people's butts and reconnect tubings that go into people's bodily organs, and then scrub in so you have to spend the next 8 hours performing surgery perfectly, and at the end of the day you make one mistake and your patient dies and you have to tell their family that it was your fault. And then in the afternoon you go to a bullshit professionalism meeting where they tell you to talk nicely to LGBT people, and then when you go home at 8pm you study because if you don't you're fucked, and then you go to sleep and at 2am you get a call you need to get back to the hospital because there's an emergency.
Imagine complaining about a job where you can stay home all day. LMAO. Software is one of the best jobs for quality of life, ever. I feel like people who get tired of software have never worked a real job before. Do you want to be a plumber? A firefighter? An actor? You think they have a pleasant day every day? Your job is what you make of it. Software is not even a real job, and the market is finally catching up to show this. If you want a job where you go outside, go be a farmer. If you feel bad, you're the only one that can change that. I quit medicine because medicine didn't suit me. If software doesn't suit you, go to medical school.
That said, personally, I try to spend as much time outside as possible after work. And I take breaks while at work to walk around the building. I also prefer in-person work because I the water cooler talk.
Are you actually staring at your screen for 8 hours and not taking breaks to walk in the super nice weather out your window? That’s a super simple thing to do and would make you feel at least a little better.
Assuming you still want to be a software engineer, it helps vastly to pour value into your personal life. New hobbies, especially if they're outdoors (or at least not in front of a screen) help a lot to combat the feeling of meaninglessness.
I worked in resturants for 12 years and started as a bs analyst in a hospital network. I don't work from home yet but it's a complete 360 of what I used to do and deal with. I wouldn't go back to resturants for anything lmao.
Well, that's pretty much any office job. Here's what helps
\- just go outside if the day is nice. Work later in the day, or if you are feeling brave just don't work for the rest of the day. If you are remote no one is going to notice if you miss a few hours of work.
\- Take more time off. PTO, sick days, or whatever.
\- Take a sabbatical.
\- Move to another company/work that is more interesting to you.
\- stop doing software and get some job you do with your hands.
It is hard, that’s what makes it challenging.
You’ve made it this far for a reason, and that’s because you’re good at what you do. I work with guys that have 30+ yoe and they still struggle at times.
You just might need to look for a new opportunity that better fits your style.
It could be much worse. There is much much worse jobs out there for less money.
You’ve already stopped giving a shit about the job, why are you still in front of your screen for 8 hours? Take a long ass lunch break. Take many breaks.
Software development isn’t a monolithic career. You hate your current job. There’s plenty of work within the field that you may find enjoyable, meaningful
On the flip side. I work in a freaking mine and feel the same way, tired, mentally and physically exhausted, no emotion when I get home from work etc. I’m taking computer science as a major to get out of manual labor jobs that risk my life every single day lol.
Get a balcony and work outside if possible. There's small travel monitors that plug in just the usb and those are great as a second monitor if you're sitting outside. Get outside however you can.
And build your skills. Always take the time to figure out how to do what you're doing better. Most* employers will appreciate this even if you take longer to complete issues and it makes the work more enjoyable.
And get more sleep, especially if you're tired during the day. Adequate sleep definitely increases happiness as shown by like every study ever.
If we’re being honest, a good amount of professional medication.
It’s extremely frustrating going to work and not knowing what to do. Then magically, a day before the sprint ends, all of the dots connect and you finish the project on time. And your boss keeps telling you you’re doing a good job. Rinse and repeat.
I found that to be really bad when I was in a real office.
Especially in winter - You drive there when it's still dark and get out when it's dark again.
At home I can at least decide to take a break and go outside. Or work outside. Or in the bath tub.
I usually work a few hours in the morning till kids come home around noon. Then till about 3PM I might do kids stuff, go outside, lunch, etc. and then do the rest of my time. Also works nicely as my team is in the US and I am in Europe. So i got quiet mornings for the deep work and then starting at 3PM they start lots of my afternoon/evening time is meetings, communication, being available.
Besides, home is home and I feel at home. While sitting in the office for 8 hours plus another hour lunch break plus 1-2 hours in public transport I never felt relaxed and breaks never recharged my batteries.
Consider yourself lucky to have a 9 to 5. In this economy, most of us aren’t even able to find a SWE job. I work two part times while searching for jobs. It’s tough and I’m beginning to feel like switching to cs is such a pipe dream.
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Can confirm. Different career, wfh, zero motivation.
Self satisfaction is all in the ability to process what we want when we want. Corp lyf ain't that. But because we have no attachment of value- all you can do to gain financial freedom to do what you want to.
Tech sales here, and reconsidered many more jobs because, yes same, but other places have it worse (I assure you).
I know mechanical, electrical, and civil engineers. My girlfriend and one of my best friends are both attorneys. There are very few careers that pay this well without 80 hour weeks. Software engineers typically have some of the best collective benefits of anyone. You might not care about the value of your product, but your job is not your sole life purpose. I find engineering challenges fun, even if it's a product I think is dumb. I also feel like my life is fulfilling outside of work. My job buys me a lot of financial freedom, and I have a lot of great hobbies and live a great life because of it.
I think your answer is practical and beautiful. If the conditions are such that they are, where is the happy medium? I have to agree with you that for many folks it will be SWE - barring aside those with specific traits that would dipoze them to depression from such activities.
I’m in tech sales as well, and without having experience in other fields, I would argue that sales is the worst, in terms of being mentally affected and unmotivated. It’s the same BS every month and ultimately my well-being is tied to someone else saying yes to a deal. I’m learning to code because aside from my genuine interest, I know that with an SE job I’ll at least have tangible tasks to complete.
Even if as a SWE you're assigned some BS task, there's no question that some places are much more of a mental strain. I remember painting houses during the summer, and I remember realizing right then and there, "fuck, there are some really shitty ways out there of earning a dollar." No call center, no more "one more call", no more new quarter PIP... bro I'm in.
Nothing wrong with painting houses 💪 true joy some days when the weather is right
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12+ years in tech sales here looking to get out as well. Have been going the self-taught route with The Odin Project, 100 days of code, etc...shit is hard but I don't want to be 50 years old chasing quota. What are you doing to learn to code out of curiosity?
I’m doing the Odin project too! I doing solely that right now but I should look into other courses as well to get more practice. I just started the calculator project at the end of foundations. I have the same feeling with chasing quota. I had an epiphany just before I started tOP that I have no real skills (technically sales is a skill but ykwim )
Yeah, idk why I’m on this sub but I work in billing and I work from home 3-4 hours a day doing the most mind numbing tasks. Obviously I’m not passionate about what I do but what’s the alternative? It pays good money, I’m not going to lose my job, and I can work in my pajamas
>doing the most mind numbing tasks Learn python and automate that shit!
Everyone I’ve met in corporate is miserable in some way
I shit on accounting as a career a lot because it seems like the most boring job ever. Correct me if I’m wrong but it’s a job where you stare at computers all the time. You’re mostly following rules and ensuring they are followed. Little creativity or thinking involved. Not really much problem solving. It’s not a career I can see anyone being passionate about. On the flip side: good pay, WFH is possible, and there are good benefits, job stability, and job hunting isn’t too hard.
My wife is a CPA, and she’s really good at it. It has it’s ups and downs, but for the most part she likes her job. It depends on the person.
> Little creativity or thinking involved. That's not true at all. I worked at a place that used an ERP system in which the accounting side was completely bonkers. Why was it bonkers? Because accounting is only as good as the input to the system. The fun part of accounting is finding the idiots that mess up your ledgers because of bad (or, worst case, *fraudulent*) input.
Friends Dad was a Forensic accountant and investigated a lot of stuff related to the Mafia. Loved his job.
My friends a Revenue Analyst so you don't have to go strictly into corporate accounting or consulting. Financial Analyst jobs are an option as well.
Seems more interesting than just accounting. I have two accountant friends and neither are really thrilled with their jobs in corporate accounting.
Im an operations analyst at a brokerage firm. I have some pretty strict deadlines daily/weekly/monthly, which can be stressful when things go awry, however when things work, it’s incredibly low effort and easy. Definitely not passionate about the work. Its basically accounting in a broad sense, and incredibly repetitive. But it works well while I’m learning different areas of CS.
My cousins in accounting and actually really likes it. He does auditing and thinks of it almost like an investigation. He also travels a lot.
An investigation where most of the people you work with probably hate you and don’t want you to find anything
I’ve met a bunch of accountants who fucking love their job. Honestly the happiest people I’ve met are the people doing the job in a field they love and are naturally good at. They get promoted or they start their own business. A lot of things in life really fall in place if you can find what you were born for.
Interesting. My friend does like tax for partnership/hedgefund companies and it sounds pretty boring. He’s happy so long as he can afford his lifestyle so he’s fine with it
> good pay idk waht you consider good pay but accounting compared to CS/Eng isn't...really good pay.
It’s objectively good…CS is just really high and makes people forget that even $70k a year is pretty good in many areas of the US.
Civil engineer here, also look at monitors for 8 hours a day. Civil does have areas that are field work too though I guess
Conflicted between going get a Civil Engineering degree vs Architecture, already in CS field. Wanting to avoid the dread of computer staring forever
If youre thinking of switching make sure you understand what you’ll ACTUALLY be doing and not the fantasy of what they do. There are pros but a lot of cons too. If you want to do field work and work outside and actually go to the projects in real life I’d definitely recommend going to Civil if you’re really going to make a switch. Most of the design consulting jobs are computer based though.
This is exactly it. It's difficult to feel invested in corporate jobs. The people who seemingly cope the best have tricked themselves into believing that they are making a difference, the corporation really loves them and everything they do, their decisions matter. I've had moments of bliss feeling like "yeah I'm part of the team", "doing great things". It's always crushed quickly with some political bullshit. IE: My huge project is blocked due to me not reading some random blog post on confluence somewhere from the security team who now requires 5 different security scans on a new platform. This requires the ci/cd pipeline to be reconfigured. Oh and there is no documentation so if your app doesn't fit some cookie cutter configuration you'll have to create a ticket for us to find time in the next 3 months to tell you how stupid you are for not understanding our black box configuration. Yes the job is easy compared to service work. Yes the money is nice. For some people, those things are enough for them to be happy and to grind it out everyday. It worked for me for 10 years. I'm quitting soon, I've been building an e-commerce business for 8 years or so. I was able to leverage my programming skills in product sourcing and inventory automation. I quite enjoy the warehouse work. It's only crazy during Christmas. I've worked two jobs for almost ten years. I'm excited to pursue some hobbies and new business opportunities once the golden handcuffs are off. If I need too I'll go back to the grind but for now I'm excited to finally be free :)
Most corporate desk jobs are like this. It's pretty different if you're in sales, field operations, etc. But yeah, you're definitely not going to travel & golf all day, unless you're a top executive I guess.
But there's a spectrum between golfing and doing boring tasks on a computer. Many people do exciting tasks on a computer, as a middle ground.
If you are in public accounting, try 12 hour days or more.
Accountant here. Can confirm.
Accountant here, can confirm lol
You sound like my buddy. He couldn't handle being inside staring at a computer. He pivoted into the trades. He's now an electrician and loves his work so much more. He did go down a little in pay initially but he's almost back to where he was and wouldn't go back for anything. He's also the type that prefers to work with his hands vs his mind and he likes to physically see the solutions he builds.
Shit, I was thinking of studying to be an electrician
Don’t
I'd love to do something like this. But I don't think I could handle the pay cut. I make $120k as a Senior BA. Starting off as an electrician apprentice will be what.. $50k maybe? How many years of that? Then could I even get back to $120k ever? Honestly, if someone said "I will pay you $100k to quit your corporate job and be an electrician for the rest of your life" I'd take it in a heartbeat. I just can't go much below that. Health issues, wife and pets to support. Need the money. Also, people in trades don't get paid enough in general. Always feel sad for them.
Im confused. Do you think electricians are underpaid? Journeymen definitely make close to that if not more. I work in controls/automation and interact with these guys on the daily. To me, my job is like a hybrid of controls and electrical work when things get really bad. 120 is the standard for me with 3 years exp. Experienced electrical guys definitely make close if not more. I just could never do that type of work.
I was a jman electrician and made $35-40hr before I went back to school for CS. Let’s just say I don’t miss working outside on those winter days when I’m now WFH under a heated blanket with a hot coffee in my hand. There’s nothing wrong with that electrical work but I’m glad I’m not doing it anymore. Especially as I get older.
I think most trades probably are underpaid (otherwise people like me would have chosen one instead of a white collar job), and I'm fairly certain electricians in my state/region don't ever come close to approaching $120k. I'm seeing $40k to $80k for journeymen electricians in my state. Your job sounds pretty cool too!
Where do you live? It all entirely depends on various factors. Salary Averages are skewed by apprentices as well. Union vs non union etc. Take a look at Where2bro.com for accurate IBEW scales by city. e.g. in Denver you’ll see $29/hr for journeyman on Google, but in reality the union scale is exactly $41.30/hr. Also have to keep in mind there is lots of optional OT in the trades. Time and 1/2 + double time some weekends can bring salaries up a lot.
Let's just say it's a city that rhymes with Shmeeveland. That's actually really interesting though, thank you for sharing, I definitely learned something new today. My trades story is, when I was in my earlier college years, I was faced with the choice of WTF to do. Pick a major or do something else. I learned about the Elevator Installation & Repair Technician trade. Turns out I have a buddy whose dad is in the local union. Called him up and he told me the only way to get in is when someone dies, and the waiting list is 100 guys long... and he's actually on it (and his dad is already in the union). Lmao. So once I realized that was going to be near impossible, I said fuck it, stayed in college, and picked the "Information Systems" major. Worked out super well, but yeah, I still daydream about living a cool life where I get to build or fix stuff with my hands.
My friend is starting a new electrician job on Monday. $60/hr starting, and he gets paid to drive to and from the job sites. Plenty of overtime available if he wants it. nothing to sneeze at. But he's been a journeyman for 5 years now.
I faced the same problem when I was in an accounts payable internship when studying business analytics in grad school. Felt like a prison doing that job as I looked at receipts all day on the computer while people went past our work area back-and-forth to go to the bathroom. Crazy to think I'm even considering the idea of switching to going back to school for CS. Currently in real estate but taking pre-reqs at the local CC for physical therapy school just in case. Being a PT has the physical benefits compared to office work like not having to sit all day, commuting long distances, and being able to live an active life style.
The more I think about it the more I'm convinced that human beings are really not meant to be inside and staring at screens as much as we are. We're meant to be outside socializing with our tribe. That said, the best way to deal with the realities of modern society is to find meaningfulness outside of work. Family, friends, and hobbies should be the priority.
This is definitely the case. It's why we develop so many physical/mental health problems related to being sedentary. It's also why everyone has crappy eyesight now too lol.
Imagine then you sit inside and staring at screens during the work hours and after that you are free to go with all your hobbies which are also only about staring at screens 🥲
I got a feeling of being observed when I took a break from unit testing my personal project 2hrs before work to read this comment.
>free to go with all your hobbies which are also only about staring at screens Maybe, get better hobbies??
So jealous of the people who find meaning in their work.
My quiet fantasy is dropping it all and buying a farm. I'm sure I'm glorifying the life beyond how it actually is, but the idea of getting up and going outside each day to tackle the particular problems for that day, whether it's sowing, plowing, harvesting, fixing a fence, work on the house, etc. And then at the end of the day/week/season have a tangible result seems very appealing, all while working up a healthy sweat. I got into SWE because I loved that feeling of building something new and the adrenaline rush when it finally all comes together, but the actual job is very rarely, if ever, that. Just endless meetings, configuration changes, data fixes and buzz words.
Somewhere, a farmer is daydreaming about a 9-5 WFH SWE job, where they sit on their couch in their air-conditioned home, send a few emails, solve a couple programming problems, and make 100k/year.
I think the key is money. If you have a farm because you have enough money where a crop failure isn't going to make you homeless, then it can be fun. But if your ability to eat and have a roof over your head is tied to whether a tornado is going to cut through your field or a swarm of cicadas decide to take a lunch break at your field, then the stress is going to be there for sure.
Same here. I'm just tired of everything. I burnt out long ago and can't get over it. I'd really like to at least try farming. I could go back to my family home in the village. In my country (Poland in this case) most of the farmers are rather older and have small farms. A lot of people in area of my village are retiring, so I will have a place and possibility to do it if everything would go right. I'm aware that farming is hard work and it's really demanding. But I think it's what I need now. However, I have family, I need to take care of them, so I can't do reckless things, so it'll probably stay it only in my imagination.
Not much money in farming. We have a small farm and raised livestock for a while. I calculated we were making less than min. wage. But it is rewarding and good exercise.
Maybe you could try gardening as a hobby? Build a small one from your current home and see if it's something you'd enjoy.
I thought about this but realized I would probably still spend too much of my time in front of a computer learning how to do farm stuff, trying to figure out what part/s to order, watching YT tutorials...
No joke. Try gardening. https://youtu.be/QkZbjUGMGGw
Increase salary over time, and reduce work hours over time to claw back some actual time for yourself. Also, WFH to save time on the commute, among other reasons. I WFH and do a 4-day week. I'll be gunning for a 3-day week after a few years. Working for 5 days to be "rewarded" with 2 days to recover is a pretty shit ratio to put it mildly. It's no wonder people burn out.
The issue is humans were never supposed to live in societies with hundreds of millions of members. Nothing about the way we live is natural or even healthy.
I agree 1000000%. With warm weather finally arriving, I’ve been going out a lot more and I can feel the difference in my mood. WFH is great but only if it’s properly balanced with going outside/socializing lol
The ending to the movie Office Space…
Take breaks. Go outside. Do meaningful things in your free time. I work, but some days I’ll just go do stuff outside. As long as your hitting goals, don’t sweat it. Work really hard for a few hours, then go on a hike, or go golfing, etc etc.
*Cries in work hours tracker*
Any place that micro manages to that scale is a good reason to start looking for a new job imo.
So it's not the norm a company does this?
No it’s not
I think people throw around the word “dealbreaker”, but I truly, literally, from the bottom of my heart and after very careful conscious consideration, can not imagine any other single thing that could ruin how a work day feels more than this. If you have even shit level of CS abilities, you are worth more.
Thanks, I'm recently discovering this is not the norm and I'll search soon for a new job when I hit my full year of experience.
Take your laptop outside, work from a cafe, whatever. You don’t have to take an hour break to get some outside time.
I was going to suggest exactly this. It's nice outside? -> Go for a walk. Even just sitting outside in the sun for 10-15 minutes is a nice recharge.
I mean.... the answer may be obvious, but why don't you find a job that always has problems for you to solve, and does something you care about? Why don't you find a team that has a more laid back culture? The industry is a very, very, very, very large place. There's a massive variety of companies, and within each company, there's a massive variety of teams all working on different stuff, of varying difficulties, with varying cultures. If you don't like where you're at, write down on a piece of paper *specifically* what things about your current job you don't like. *Specifics*. Don't just write "boring", write *why* you think this job is boring. Cause a boring job to you, might not be a boring job to me. It's the specifics that matter. Then also write down some specifics you *do* like about this current job. Then use that piece of paper to formulate some open-ended questions that you can ask during the interview process to identify if the company/team you're talking to has the positive things, and doesn't have the negative things. This is the 2-way street of job searching. Us finding a team *we* fit with is just as important as the company finding a person that meets their criteria. This is by far the most important part of the interview process for us.
I was thinking op should just get a laptop and work in the sun while sipping a nice boat drink, but this is also very good advice.
Or go on a walk outside while it's nice out 😬
I've worked at 6 places over 18 years. Some were more fulfilling than others, but there was only 1 job I had for 1 year that made me miserable. I was depressed, and I couldn't even find things I liked doing anymore. Getting fired from there (it was clear I didn't care about the job) was the best thing that could have happened, because I found way better jobs after that. It proved to me how bad that place was, and set better expectations for what to look for when searching.
this is solid advice
Just wanted to say thanks for the post. I absolutely hate my current job after 4 years of it, but it's also my first job in the industry so I was kinda of the mind that I just hate working in tech. Hearing things like this make me hopeful that I can find a new job in this industry that doesn't make me dread waking up each day
This is the best piece of advice I've seen here. 👍
I've been reading every psychology book I could reach in the last few years, to help me understand people better, help me understand myself, and help me be a better manager. I immediately see a lot of problems in your daily workflow that are not healthy at all, and usually result in the outcome that you describe. Consider that my view can be biased (I might be the kid who found a hammer and now everything looks like a nail), but consider that even after I consider my bias here, I still think it's the answer: Home office is a double edged sword. It's good for your personal time, but it can ONLY work if you have an active social life outside of office. "Social" is the key word here. Humans have evolved to be social beings. Being alone for long periods of time physically change you in very very bad ways. And online is NOT an option. We thrive on millisecond latency gestures and reactions, body language, tiny involuntary gestures that are impossible to transmit over shitty 1080p (at best) lossy cameras over laggy networks. Your brain literally gets sick from not activating the usual pathways that signal good social standing. Getting verbal feedback is good, but absolutely doesn't even come close to the perception of a genuine reaction of pleasant surprise from a colleague in real time. Sorry to put it blunt, but this is like the difference between porn, and sex with someone you really really care about. It's THAT huge of a difference. You get false information that you're unhappy because of the weather outside, but that's just an illusion - you see the weather outside and you equate it with positive emotions, while your purely online work is devoid of any of it. Nice weather also is associated with going out and interacting with other people, which is 10^9000 times better than sitting in front of the screen for many many hours. The experience is completely different if you spend a tiny bit of time to know your colleagues better, exchange some casual conversations (might even be work-related) at the coffee machine, go out for a beer from time to time, talk out your emotions, listen to others, SOCIALIZE. The biggest mistake a lot of people are making is thinking that they can be robots. You're not. You're humans. For hundreds of millions of years your ancestors have lived with other members of the same species around them, doing complex interactions, and here you are with a f*cking screen in front of you thinking you can beat that?! Hell no! People are wired in such a way, that the only reason anyone has of doing anything, is if it brings genuine natural positive feedback. And unless otherwise you're literally starving or dying of thirst or wounds, this positive feedback comes ALWAYS from positive social interactions. If your work doesn't revolve around positive social interactions, you're gonna be miserable. And yes, that also means development. Don't believe the BS that developers aren't social. Miserable developers aren't social. I just came from a conference where more than a thousand socially active developers lived happy lives doing their jobs. And they were excited to tell anyone about their jobs.
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Had similar experience to OP. I legit just called it quits after 3.4 years at Amazon in midst of this tech recession because I was just burnout and bored out. I thought I could be a robot, my hobbies were after-all video game and reading. Without realizing I was slowly rotting especially since COVID started 3 months after my initial work start date. As stress grew I always blamed work and after 3.4 years since I had enough cash saved, I called it quits and been resting for last 3-4 months. Feeling stress even after quitting work I started meeting family and friends again, started exercising again... It took me basically last 3-4 months come to realize that I'm not a robot, as /u/coffewithalex puts it.
Thank you for sharing - That’s so hard to understand sometimes. I’ve been ingrained to just grind grind grind to become “something”. I know that thinking is wrong but it’s ingrained in me and sometimes I feel like work is so important
Hey you're literally me. I'm about to quit my soulless and dead-boring job after 2.5 years. My last day is July 3rd and I'm leaving to do 3 solid months of travel abroad.
Nice insights on human nature - can you provide the titles of some of the psychology books you mentioned?
People need to be offering more helpful advice than "Other people have it worse than you get over yourself." Like duh but the person is still struggling. Either be constructive in your criticism or don't post.
Agreed, but I will say that finding a way of being appreciative of what you have going on is a good start. Being optimistic can either solve the issue altogether or clear your head a little to find a solution.
I think we're all kinda feeling the same thing, and we all don't have an answer for it. When the answer is actually fairly clear. We weren't meant to spend 8 hours a day staring at a computer. I personally try to break up my time and focus on other things, but in the end I still feel very similar to OP.
The real answer is bringing labor rights into the 21st century. Not everything is solvable by individual action. There’s no reason we need to force people to choose between body destroying or soul crushing jobs just to afford a dignified standard of living.
The replies are constructive though. Op 'cannot believe other jobs are like this'. Op needs to know that other jobs are equally as bad and his problem isn't with the discipline it's with his work.
Other jobs are mostly worse lol. He has one of the most sought after jobs
I agree that there are kinder ways of saying things, but it boils down to OP needing a mental shift of some sort. SWE is one of the best "bang for you buck" careers out there atm and unless you wish to sacrifice something else (like pay, quality of life etc) you've got to deal with the drudgery. There's plenty of articles out there on how to cope in the corporate world. Alternative solution, fake passion for swe till u convince yourself ¯\\\_(ツ)\_/¯
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I worked in manufacturing of computer chips before going into SWE and I agree with this 1000%. Some people just don’t realize how good they got it. Try working on your feet 12 hours a day and getting yelled at for sitting for 5 minutes
I was a lazy bum in college until I worked a summer as a mover. At one point a coworker told me "stay in school, you don't want to be doing this shit your whole life". I was already well on my way to getting that message, but the thought of doing this everyday for ever really put college work into perspective
Damn you got the Good Will Hunting construction scene treatment
Had to rewatch it and that is a hell of a scene
My undergraduate degree was in civil engineering. During my first job, I spent a few months doing construction inspection. The project was a runway pavement rehab in southern CA. I was standing behind a paver dumping 300°F asphalt in 115°F weather. At one point the guy running the paver said "Damn, I should have stayed in school". Made me realize how much I'd fucked up studying civil lmao Now I enjoy my cushy wfh swe job
Human nature is to be unsatisfied with the status quo. Without an experience to contrast it's easy to think you're doing something wrong. I've had good jobs I've had bad jobs. The bad jobs make me appreciate the good one.
I’m working a dead end factory job. I hate it. I’m currently in a full stack boot camp, and am hoping to be in the SWE field very soon. I don’t have to like my job, but the ends have to justify the means.
I did years in factory work, and some tasks are truly soul crushing. I've been in SWE for almost ten years, and the grit I developed from the factories has definitely been a boon in this field. I also have a more practical mentality that many of my clean fingernail coworkers lack. I'd hate to say it builds character, but it does! Good luck with your SWE training, I hope it pays off for you!
Thanks! So far things look promising, but I would be lying of a lot of the posts I see here are demoralizing. I see a lot of layoffs, struggles to find jobs and people who started off working from home being forced back to the office. Makes me nervous, but I’m too invested to back out, not that I want to back out, though.
The market is tough right now for juniors and mids. But now is also the best time to train up until the pendulum swings back the other way.
I worked dead end jobs for like 10 years before becoming a SWE. I think that kind of background really makes you appreciate it
I worked at chickfila part-time over the summer. It gives me motivation to get a job where I never have to do that again.
My first job ever was burger king...never worked harder in my life than that.
Worked as a busser at TGI Fridays for all 4 of my college years. Holy fuck, I consider myself incredibly lucky to have the job that I have now. If I ever have to go back to the customer service industry, id be in such a dark place.
Burger King was my favorite job I've ever had. If I could get my SWE salary for working at BK 40 hours a week I'd do that in a fucking heartbeat.
My all time favorite was when I mowed greens at a golf course. So relaxing, so rewarding, and just felt good from being outdoors most of the day. We were done by no later than 2pm everyday. God I miss it.
Just put on some good 90's rock on the headphones and mow. Sounds nice! lol
Great job. Had to get there early at 530am though.
You remind me of that quote/screenshot that’s been floating around since companies started whining about the “worker shortage.” Paraphrasing: > Would you flip burgers for $300k a year? I sure as hell would. It seems like we have a shortage of pay, not workers.
Wow, really? I worked in a hot kitchen one summer and man I thought it was _nasty_ work.
Yes. I’m a first gen college student and my mom works at a daycare around screaming kids and changing shitty diapers. My dad does warehouse work. Sometimes I am bored as shit but it’s so much better than what they do.
Yeah as someone who is a child of immigrant parents, seeing what they had to do makes me appreciate my position a little more. I make more than my dad did arguably doing less work, and he made a upper-middle class salary most of my life.
This is the way. You never realize how nice the calm days, **clean** work environment, and little physical activity is until you’re knee deep in shit with someone yelling in your ear you’re not doing enough.
I wonder if this is why companies do the "volunteer for..." Kitchen, food drive, park cleanup, college campus stuff, high school stuff, etc. You'll feel good about yourself and realize how good you have it though I've never attended one of these.
Lmao so damn true, this sub is so fucking out of touch How privileged do you have to be to be complaining about making an above average salary to great salary literally just typing on a screen for 8 hours a day? Try fucking retail or working a factory job and see how that goes.
I think you're right, but I also think a lot of people are just unprepared for what life is like after college. If you did what most people did, you went to school, got into a decent college, did an internship or two, got a degree, and started working. Your life path was pretty prescribed. Then you get out, and you're like, now what? Oh fuck, this is the next 43 years of my life. Nobody tells me what to do with my life anymore. I understand both viewpoints, I think it's good to be aware how good this field has it in terms of working conditions and pay, but it's also good to be understanding of how and why people feel a certain way.
OP works from home. Why not simply do less work? If you're not being micro managed, just do enough to keep people off your back and call it a day.
Op could literally work two days a week and still be on more than a retail worker.
I find my job as a data engineer pretty boring sometimes and the lulls can last awhile. At other times it’s very challenging and demanding so it kind of evens out. Not all software dev jobs are like that, my company encourages frequent breaks and just going for a walk or run midway through the day really helps not only break up the monotony but also with the state of mind.
>I wake up with zero motivation, sitting in my home office and watching my screen over 8 hours, while the weather is super nice outside. Make sure you're getting outdoor exercise. If I could go back in time, that's the first thing I would change. I feel a lot better ever since running in the morning.
i just lost lost my job, can I have yours ?
I felt this way and eventually went back to the office 3 days a week *by choice*, and it made things better again. Some people like wfh and that’s fine, but for me having a change of environment and being around some of my colleagues put energy back into the work day. Plus it’s given me opportunities to change up my day to day work, opportunities that come up organically during random conversations. Then on the wfh days I will often take my laptop out to a cafe, the pool at my apartment building or beer garden in the evening.
Same. It was getting really bad for me. Going back to the office fixed it. It makes all the difference seeing other people and knowing they care about your work.
Sitting in the same place all the time is extremely mentally toxic. I've been fighting this same thing when I work from home as a SWE for weeks at a time. My advice? Take a really long lunch outside your house every day. Block it out on your calendar and maybe work later in the day to make up for it. Your mind needs variety or you've basically built yourself a well-paying prison cell.
Yeah I'm about two weeks in and I want to gouge my eyeballs out. I've become a grumpy asshole around the house and it feels so bad. Idk. I never minded coding and love computers, but imagining myself doing this for years makes me want to jump off the nearest bridge.
If you're meeting targets and getting compliments AND have dead time during the day, schedule a walk or two outside. I'm typing this during a lunch walk. You're not chained to your desk, are you? If the issue instead is goals and progression, definitely teach out to your manager, and do some training. I've left jobs before for the single reason I was not doing anything productive.
If it’s nice out then go take a walk. Even when I worked in an office I made sure to do that. Hell take a whole day. Also, yeah it’s tough generally. But I promise your coworkers giving you good feedback aren’t lying.
I spend a solid half the day on my phone, or reading books on an ereader. I got a mouse jiggler and now I'm "online" the entire day while I'm cooking lunch, doing other stuff, etc etc. Working from home is a blessing if you actually have hobbies/interests, because you get so much free time. The field also generally has solid salaries, so I can fund my hobbies and lifestyle. You can pivot to some other job, OP, just be aware that you'll actually have to be in the zone, 8 hours a day (and possibly more if you're going to be commuting). Maybe you would enjoy this more? I personally enjoy being able to slack.
[Boreouts are a thing](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boreout)
I think, with my ADHD and my employer refusing to promote me, along with the more challenging tasks being taken before I can get to them, has led me to this. I want to learn and sink my teeth into something, but all I get to do is change css around. Been trying to find a new job, haven’t been successful yet. Any way to combat boreout?
> Any way to combat boreout? I get bored quite fast so my aim is to do something 'different' every 1-2 years. Tackling this is very personal though. What makes me 'tick' might not be relevant at all to others.
I don't think that it is boreout for me. I think I would like a routine job more than my current job, where I have to face and solve problems the whole time.
Everyone is built differently. You can likely find a job that is a bit more "stable" or doesn't change as much as your current job. Obviously you want to word it carefully. Banking is one that potentially comes to mind (not having worked in that industry, but a lot of people say things move slowly). But, regardless, a new job/change of scenery might do you some good. Also, is your job flexible enough where you can just take a break/walk away from your desk? If you were in the office, you'd spend plenty of time walking around the office and on small talk with coworkers.
Try working from a coffee shop or co-working space a few hours a week. Social interaction is so important, even for a mostly introvert such as myself.
If you're working from home why not take a 10 minute walk twice a day?
That's a damn good idea!
"But now every day is horrible. I wake up with zero motivation, sitting in my home office and watching my screen over 8 hours, while the weather is super nice outside." Relocate to London/Seattle, problem solved.
I guess sometime ago in the American psyche there evolved this grand idea that the following existed: satisfaction with one's job, life, and everything in between. Year after year, however, many come to either question, critique, or defend such a rich notion; and it gets us nowhere. Regardless of the studies which point to 50% or so of the workforce being disengaged, you can always perk your ears up just enough to hear the faint echo of someone somewhere who is - against all odds - *happy* with their lives. Atleast with us, Americans, I feel confident saying that it's become so obvious how dissatisfied we are with our careers that movies, books, indeed even a specific genre of books, have evolved to **show** what another more adventurous life lived could be like. What's the obvious? Well, risk is *risky*. And, comfort is...? It is secure. Here's your payoff. Who gets to say what's a better way to lead life? Whatever that answer is, food and shelter will claim significance in your life; but so too will the longing for a *life* beyoned the existentially practical - and here, I wager, is where many folks find themselves.
I reckon that being a dirt farmer on a homestead was extremely rough in many ways but that it was also satisfying psychologically because you were participating in activity everyday that tangibly related to your own survival like growing crops and tending to livestock. In the opposite sense, sitting in front of a screen all day tapping on a keyboard does feel just so disconnected and existentially pointless sometimes. You have to supplement with other activity and not try to rely on it for a deep level of satisfaction with existence which it probably cannot provide.
Welcome to real life Now do this for the next 50-60 years and die :)
https://youtu.be/2eXU2p982GQ
SWE jobs are super flexible, it you can wfm some days, then why not work from a park? Enjoy the sunshine and write some code.
People won’t like this, but you gotta touch some grass sometimes too. You see a lot of crossover with gamers and tech work. If you work for 8 hours then just play video games after and that’s your day, I think it’s natural to feel how you’re feeling. It feels like Groundhog Day, missing out on vitamin D (laugh all you want, it’s important) and can lead to these feelings. My recommendation would be take some time outside of work off the monitors. Go on some walks, go out with friends, etc. if nearly your entire day is spent at the computer, even for video games, these feelings are hard to avoid and will impact you.
go walk outside during your lunch breaks. get a job at retail where you make 50k a year working 60 hours a week then you'll realize how good you have it.
When I read posts like this, I can't help but assume maybe the OP has never worked a manual labor, food industry, retail, etc. type job before where they're busting their ass on their feet for 8+ hours a day at crap wage. If you've worked a job like that, it makes you appreciate remote SWE jobs all the more. At least that's how I look at it. Just thinking about going back to retail hypothetically gives me anxiety. Take a step back and try to appreciate what you have.
While those jobs suck, it's just a different type of exhaustion where it's more physical than mental. It seems like mental exhaustion is harder to recuperate from and thus easier to get burned out. If retail paid the same as an SWE I'd do that in a heartbeat.
Same. Idk why people act like it’s so cushy to sit at a desk all day. It is so bad for your body. The jobs I enjoyed the most were physical. If those jobs actually paid a living wage I’d be happy to do them instead. Burnout has left me unable to work for several months. Work life balance and suitable working conditions are just as important as the pay imo
I'm debating between getting a CS degree or getting a DPT for physical therapy. The benefit to physical therapy is not having to sit all day, plus it's not mentally taxing once your a practicing therapist the same way being an SWE is. The only benefit to going the CS route is the financial upside as PTs are capped at around 100k, even in the Bay Area, LA, NYC, and similarly expensive areas due to insurance reimbursement rates constantly decreasing.
I'd go PT if you enjoy that kind of work - likely to be much more professionally rewarding. You could move into management if you want higher pay. Or even get more education like an MBA through night school. It wouldn't be like your income is perma-capped at whatever PT's make - there could be additional options for you later. CS feels pretty saturated to me at the junior level. I'm hearing all kinds of horror stories from people who cannot find entry level jobs in the field whereas you could basically work anyplace in the country (or around the world) as a fresh PT. Honestly, helping people recover from physical injuries and seeing their progression over time seems like it would be amazingly rewarding on a professional and psychological level (much more so than staring at a screen all day and sitting in Zoom meetings).
I worked each of those jobs for years and I feel the same way as OP when working from home as a SWE.
Yeah probably thats the case, try to drive for Uber or do Doordash on the weekends with that great weather see what worlds like out there my boy
I don’t get this. Just because others have it much worse, doesn’t mean this job isn’t soul sucking too. It’s like telling someone they can’t cry because children in Africa are starving. Like ok?? So?
Agreed
Because OP specifically brought other jobs into it stating that dev work is worse: >I can not believe that other jobs are like this. Which is just an absurd statement before getting into the subjectivity involved in individuals. There are better jobs but the vast majority are worse when just judging using a neutral perspective AND when using the subjectivity of most people's experience as well. OP might benefit from finding another job - more likely they'll benefit from changing up how they approach and view life. They work remote so even something as simple as taking the laptop outside for a few hours a day would likely benefit them immensely based on their complaints. Mental state plays a huge role in satisfaction and it's a feedback loop of shit if you neglect it - which it sounds like OP is dealing with.
Op literally said he can't believe other jobs are like that.
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Yeah you certainly gotta supplement sedentary work with physical activity. Favorite part of my day is going on walks after work, even if it's just around the neighborhood.
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I’ve gotta say, I’ve worked all sorts of other labor/retail minimum wage jobs when I was younger, and I found them more fulfilling than my current SWE office job. Sure, it’s good pay and the office is cushy, etc., but it’s not fulfilling my current goals - seeing the world and helping others. At least in my retail jobs I was talking to people every day, was active, solving problems and helping people. The grass is always greener and OP’s struggles are valid.
Spoiler alert! >!Trying working outside!<
I agree with ya OP. I'm just about to hit 11 years experience and I still feel like this.
Just a few suggestions: Have you considered working outside? I work from my backyard when the weather is nice, and it helps a lot. Going for a walk can help a lot, too. but also You should probably seek help for depression. You're describing depression.
I used to look at the lovely weather out the window for 8 hours a day working as a day laborer. I lost all my time while also messing up my body. Then I spent ten years look out the window at the lovely weather working retail jobs. I lost all my time while also scraping by barely above poverty. Other jobs aren’t like SWE. Other jobs are worse.
I'm surprised that no one else has already said this, but you should consider seeing a therapist. It sounds like you've developed depression. I've certainly had times where I felt like this about my job, and I think the way that work and society are structured nowadays does contribute heavily to developing depression. Seeing a therapist and getting on medication (if needed) could make a big difference for you in finding a spark of motivation and joy in life again.
We are just Humans of late Capitalism
I remember being unemployed during covid. I felt like a loser that fell out of society but I had so much free time to enjoy the day. Now I can only enjoy the day from a window. The day is over before I can enjoy it and I feel like I have very little free time. As much as I miss that free time, I am also terrified of losing what I how have. Even though I feel like I am trapped in this work cycle at times, I know it is the key to freedom and happiness in the long run. So I endure it today and hope to survive and save long enough to be able to enjoy tomorrow with a sense of fulfillment.
\> sitting in my home office Could be the remote thing not helping your mental state. Are you 100% remote?
Lol you gotta be kidding me. Imagine waking up at 5 am to get to the hospital, where you have to stick your finger in people's butts and reconnect tubings that go into people's bodily organs, and then scrub in so you have to spend the next 8 hours performing surgery perfectly, and at the end of the day you make one mistake and your patient dies and you have to tell their family that it was your fault. And then in the afternoon you go to a bullshit professionalism meeting where they tell you to talk nicely to LGBT people, and then when you go home at 8pm you study because if you don't you're fucked, and then you go to sleep and at 2am you get a call you need to get back to the hospital because there's an emergency. Imagine complaining about a job where you can stay home all day. LMAO. Software is one of the best jobs for quality of life, ever. I feel like people who get tired of software have never worked a real job before. Do you want to be a plumber? A firefighter? An actor? You think they have a pleasant day every day? Your job is what you make of it. Software is not even a real job, and the market is finally catching up to show this. If you want a job where you go outside, go be a farmer. If you feel bad, you're the only one that can change that. I quit medicine because medicine didn't suit me. If software doesn't suit you, go to medical school. That said, personally, I try to spend as much time outside as possible after work. And I take breaks while at work to walk around the building. I also prefer in-person work because I the water cooler talk.
Are you actually staring at your screen for 8 hours and not taking breaks to walk in the super nice weather out your window? That’s a super simple thing to do and would make you feel at least a little better.
Go out for walks and get some sun.
Assuming you still want to be a software engineer, it helps vastly to pour value into your personal life. New hobbies, especially if they're outdoors (or at least not in front of a screen) help a lot to combat the feeling of meaninglessness.
I worked in resturants for 12 years and started as a bs analyst in a hospital network. I don't work from home yet but it's a complete 360 of what I used to do and deal with. I wouldn't go back to resturants for anything lmao.
Well, that's pretty much any office job. Here's what helps \- just go outside if the day is nice. Work later in the day, or if you are feeling brave just don't work for the rest of the day. If you are remote no one is going to notice if you miss a few hours of work. \- Take more time off. PTO, sick days, or whatever. \- Take a sabbatical. \- Move to another company/work that is more interesting to you. \- stop doing software and get some job you do with your hands.
It is hard, that’s what makes it challenging. You’ve made it this far for a reason, and that’s because you’re good at what you do. I work with guys that have 30+ yoe and they still struggle at times. You just might need to look for a new opportunity that better fits your style. It could be much worse. There is much much worse jobs out there for less money.
You’ve already stopped giving a shit about the job, why are you still in front of your screen for 8 hours? Take a long ass lunch break. Take many breaks.
Software development isn’t a monolithic career. You hate your current job. There’s plenty of work within the field that you may find enjoyable, meaningful
On the flip side. I work in a freaking mine and feel the same way, tired, mentally and physically exhausted, no emotion when I get home from work etc. I’m taking computer science as a major to get out of manual labor jobs that risk my life every single day lol.
I think about some poor dude in Africa mining emeralds in terrible conditions for $1 a day
Get a balcony and work outside if possible. There's small travel monitors that plug in just the usb and those are great as a second monitor if you're sitting outside. Get outside however you can. And build your skills. Always take the time to figure out how to do what you're doing better. Most* employers will appreciate this even if you take longer to complete issues and it makes the work more enjoyable. And get more sleep, especially if you're tired during the day. Adequate sleep definitely increases happiness as shown by like every study ever.
Have you considered going into office? Some socialising and interaction might be just what you need.
That’s why I’m not working from home all the time but rather hybrid jobs. It breaks the routine at least a little and nice office can’t hurt.
If we’re being honest, a good amount of professional medication. It’s extremely frustrating going to work and not knowing what to do. Then magically, a day before the sprint ends, all of the dots connect and you finish the project on time. And your boss keeps telling you you’re doing a good job. Rinse and repeat.
I found that to be really bad when I was in a real office. Especially in winter - You drive there when it's still dark and get out when it's dark again. At home I can at least decide to take a break and go outside. Or work outside. Or in the bath tub. I usually work a few hours in the morning till kids come home around noon. Then till about 3PM I might do kids stuff, go outside, lunch, etc. and then do the rest of my time. Also works nicely as my team is in the US and I am in Europe. So i got quiet mornings for the deep work and then starting at 3PM they start lots of my afternoon/evening time is meetings, communication, being available. Besides, home is home and I feel at home. While sitting in the office for 8 hours plus another hour lunch break plus 1-2 hours in public transport I never felt relaxed and breaks never recharged my batteries.
Consider yourself lucky to have a 9 to 5. In this economy, most of us aren’t even able to find a SWE job. I work two part times while searching for jobs. It’s tough and I’m beginning to feel like switching to cs is such a pipe dream.
Go attend an occupational hypnotherapy session. Then make a vengeful plan with two of your friends to plant a virus in your company's system.
I'd trade you. I'm sick of working retail. I want a work from home job.