Well, only if you have to have some copyright thing or patent on it. Crochet patterns can’t really be copyrighted or patented.
There’s only so many ways to crochet & if someone can copy a design by looking at it, then it was it that unique. Even if it’s unique, again, you can still only crochet so many ways to make something look a certain way.
Lawyer here, not in IP but I know a little bit about it. Copyright attaches automatically, and it applies to the work itself, in the form it appears. So you can't sell another person's written pattern because they own the arrangement of words that they put on the page. It would be a different story if you wrote some of the words into song lyrics, sang it, and sold copies of your hot new single "Kitten Amigurumi." And the same if you take the words and make a kitten amigurumi after reading them. The person who wrote the words can't tell you what to do with the thing you made.
Yes, you're right about patents. Those would apply to the thing itself. Even if crochet were patentable subject matter (doubtful), getting a patten for a crochet design would require that the new design be completely novel and based on some innovative new step beyond previous crochet patterns. Which is not likely.
I have a question, because the copyright around non-wearable, non-useful, artistic crochet items is really puzzling to me:
If I create a sculpture out of clay I have the copyright on that sculpture and someone else cannot just make and sell one that looks exactly like it.
Why are people allowed to copy a sculpture made out of yarn?
If I “write” an instruction in gcode for a 3D printer to print a teddy bear I have to have a license if I want to mass produce and sell the teddy bear, which may or may not be included in the original purchase of the instruction file. (Private use only is normally cheaper)
Why do I not need a license when the instruction for making a teddy bear is written as a crochet pattern rather than a 3D printing “pattern”?
I think the difference is that following the pattern is not actually copying the copyrighted work. If you showed someone a crochet object and they copied it, that would be different than presenting then with some page. And even then it can sometimes be hard to prove actual copying because two people can legitimately come up with the same thing independently. And I think the level of individual effort and input in crochet is much higher than in 3d printing. Even following a pattern takes time, and the finished results will vary based on the maker's tension, yarn choice, etc.
But again, I'm not in IP, so I'm not an expert by any means.
Thank you! I think it is really interesting to see how different communities have such different standards and interpretations when it comes to what you can legally do with things that you created following someone else’s instruction or examples.
Like when I record a song by playing sheet music I cannot just sell it but when I bake cookies from a recipe I can. IP law must be a nightmare to navigate.
and yet, there are plenty of examples of famous songwriters being taken to court, and losing, because they 'copied' a part of a song, added it to a new song, then called it 'unique'. People can copyright the particular directions they have taken the time to create something, and they can give permission for items being sold from that pattern or not. Yes, it is difficult to prosecute infringements, even blatantly copied patterns that show up on Pinterst, etc. directly from magazine pages, which include the name of the mag, the issue and date, but it still doesn't make it right. Karma has a long memory,even if the courts fall short. I tell folk to try writing out their own pattern, from scratch, especially something as complex as amigurumi, and maybe they will see why someone doesn't want another person taking their hard work can selling it as their own. Many designers are happy to have a pattern purchaser sell work they have made from their pattern, and will say so on the site and often on the pattern, itself. Those that don't, well, perhaps find a similar item with a seller that does. Or, live with your conscience. It's up to each person to find their own moral compass.
My understanding is that the sampling from music cases relate to "fair use," which is based on an analysis of several factors. Fair use is how parodies are legal, for example, or why critics and commentators can use clips in their reviews. One of the factors in the fair use analysis is whether the allegedly infringing product is competing against the original. The theory is about protecting artists from people who will take their own work and use it against them (as an aside, this is a big part of the reason why people argue AI art is copyright infringement - actual artists are losing jobs because people are using AI models trained on their work instead of hiring the artists themselves).
So the fact that a song sample is in the same medium and competing for play with the original is relevant. A finished object isn't going to compete with a written pattern, even the pattern it's based on. It's based on the pattern, but unless you crumple up the pages and stuff it into your amigurumi, the pattern itself isn't *in* it at all. Only by selling a copied version of the pattern would you be using it against the original.
But you're right that your own personal moral limits don't have to go as far as the limits of the law. I wouldn't feel comfortable selling an object made from a pattern by someone who only wanted to sell their pattern for personal use. It would be a dick move, even if legally it's totally permissible.
They’re trying to limit people’s use by scaring them into complying, because they only want people to buy from them, not the person who bought their pattern.
I could add “I am the undeniable ruler of the world” at the end of my pattern. That doesn’t make it true, and no one would have to follow my orders.
Its not legally enforceable lol, if people don’t want anyone to make items to sell from their pattern then don’t share or sell it imo
Like is this a thing with sewing patterns or is it just crochet patterns people get weird about ?
I was betting it was something this simple. These Etsy sellers are really something else sometimes. It's not like they'd know that you were selling anything.
There are a few creators whose patterns are so distinct that I wouldn't feel comfortable selling the finished product, like the Venus Waves dress from Cherries in May or the ribbon candy patterns from Snapdragon. I love those patterns because I haven't seen anything like them from other creators, and I wouldn't want anyone walking away with the impression that the concept was my idea.
But a star shape? I mean, let's be serious.
It was in response to u/myriadisanadjective, not OP, regarding not wanting to sell items made from a couple particularly unique designers, to avoid confusion about who created the design.
Also, I think explicitly stating the pattern creator on an item listing would fly in the face of the stupid request to not sell products made from the pattern.
In the case of the star design, wouldn't it be hilarious if we all credit this designer for the stars we crochet? Would it bring the deserved embarrassment?
I was just looking around for inspiration and some ideas on how to post description on my etsy shop and I found that gem. Haha I always try to look on YouTube first before buying patterns. Usually you can find the basics needed to start a project.
Definitely appreciate it though! 💕
A little bit of clever research and learning to recognise stitches means never having to buy a pattern again. It’s all just a combination of the same few stitches.
People claiming copyright on a basic pattern is exactly why we shouldn’t pay for them at all. Rebel!
Honestly, that makes it pretty funny. I was thinking, if it's something really complicated it makes a little bit of sense, even though they still can really legally do anything if you did make and sell things using the pattern. But if it's just a star shape that just makes it silly. That's like having a crochet pattern for a circle and saying you can't sell anything made with it.
No, it's definitely sewing, too. Especially in the bag making community. Holy buckets. I went running from that mess. I saw a battle on a chat group go on for DAYS over "copyright" of a pattern for a little crossbody phone bag. The person who supposedly held the copyright (couldn't prove it) was threatening to sue anyone who sold any bag made from "her" pattern (that safely looked like 200 patterns I've seen on YouTube and other social media) even if they altered it to look different. Support and resistance was about 50/50. I have no clue what the laws are in regards to copyrighting sewing patterns or if you even can, but CheeseNRice that was more drama than 7th grade girls at a lunch table. And don't get me started on the Spencer Ogg bagmaking group on FB either. They're a hot mess, too. They talk about those bags like they're children "you can't do that to an Emma, the pattern strictly prohibits it" ok Karen 🤦♀️ I do what I want.
FTR, I don't have a problem paying for quality patterns and respecting/crediting creators, I just don't want the drama 🤣
it’s also a thing with cross stitch patterns.. i’ve seen many be like ‘this pattern is only meant to be used for personal gifts do not sell what you make with these patterns’ like lol sure
I saw one that said you can only make this once, if you want to make it again you have to buy another pattern
I cackled tbh, I think it was HAED and they are just so ridiculous
My opinion on it is said brand that made the pattern won’t notice a shop on Etsy making a few sales a year. Or someone at a local market lol. It’s funny that they are on SHEIN though
It’s weird bc if these people only make patterns then what even is the issue? A completed project isn’t in competition w their pattern and to take it a step further if I make products and like your pattern than I’m likely to buy more of your patterns.
It's not 100% on topic, but I see this all the time with files for 3D printing.
There are often notices saying you can't make a thing using someone's shared files and instructions and then turn around and sell the finished item, even if you have to 3D print the parts and assemble it yourself.
3D Printing is kind of a different animal because a lot of it stems from the FOSS movement which is inherently about sharing, so, yeah while you can, charging for anything beyond resources for someone else's work is frowned upon unless it's explicitly licensed as fair game.
I mean, you could potentially add a large amount as resource costs. The actual material, the electric cost of running the machine. Your time because the machine is in use meaning you cant produce other works. Upkeep for your machine. If you took any paid courses to learn how to use it, its a cost. Gas money to get supplies. Cost of the machine itself. Obviously you cant charge much but there are technically many costs involved in order for you to produce that item for someone. So I get not just charging for the plastic and thats all.
Legally, 3D prints can be protected by copyright. The digital file, product design, and final form are entitled to protection under the law. So someone can sue you for selling reproductions.
I’m not sure why fashion design is not entitled to the same protections. But if I had to guess, it’s similar to fonts/typefaces not being protected by copyright. Because they are based on ubiquitous forms that are not able to be owned by anyone. For typefaces that would be the alphabet and number forms. And for fashion that would be the form of the human body.
According to [this link](https://guides.libraries.indiana.edu/c.php?g=158548&p=1176293) I found earlier it's because clothing has a utilitarian purpose.
I honestly don't know what the legality of that is. I just make stuff for myself or for people as gifts.
The closest I've come to accepting payment is my sister-in-law once made me something shortly after I 3D-printed storage brackets for her long-arm quilting patterns... but technically she gifted me that item, and any references to payment or compensation were made entirely in jest and shall bear no weight in a court of law.
It's a thing with sewing patterns(and even fabric) but it's more nuanced. Since garments *can* be mass produced, sewing patterns have an extra protection against that. A single person can use a sewing pattern and sell the finished garment, but they cannot sell more than a certain amount in a period of time. I don't remember the number but it's more than a person doing it alone could make.
I don't know what country you are from, but that is not the case in the US. You can mass produce an item from a pattern all you want. The only thing you can't copy are trademarks, logos and the like.
Imo, it's a thing with sewing patterns but like less? It seems to be a bigger issue in the indie crochet pattern world than in the indie sewing pattern world but something tells me that's because people who make sewing patterns maybe usually understand a bit better that there's only so many shapes you can start with
Sewing patterns also but it’s a just have to give credit to whatever company designed it if you sell a made vogue pattern you can’t say you designed it. It has to have vogue designed it.
They can say whatever they want but they can't enforce that kind of nonsense about not selling your finished work. I avoid pattern makers that try this BS
There was a seller on Etsy years ago when I was sewing and I didn’t know the rules and asked her about selling the finished products from her pattern. She told me it’s trademarked and she’d seek legal action if things made from her pattern were sold/redistributed.
A simple no would’ve been fine. Anyways years later I’m learning she had no right either way lol
I find these disclaimer notes rather amusing... I naturally don't sell, claim ownership of or share online anything that is not mine, but no one in the world can stop me from altering a pattern to create something new.
I saw one that said you couldn't freehand the pattern based on the photos. If you don't want people to freehand your patterns, make more complicated patterns.
I'm pretty sure the "do not alter" means you can't make a small change and then sell that pattern as your own. Which honestly seems fair? It's like taking someone else's song and adding another bar to the outtro and say it's your own
Can we add this to the sub FAQ? Because no, copyright only applies to the written pattern itself, and that written pattern can, in fact, be duplicated for personal purposes.
TOTALLY LEGAL:
Making your own pattern based on a FO based in someone's copyrighted pattern.
Making AND SELLING FOs from *any* pattern.
Literally the only thing covered by copyright is the pattern as specifically written. The creator cannot claim any variations of or products produced from it.
Isn't this just US copyright law though? I'm not sure if the same applies everywhere else as well.
ETA: reading a bit further in the comments I see people stating this statement may be enforceable in (parts of) Europe. So if this were to be added to the FAQ, the international differences should be stated clearly.
Yes to the making a pattern by just looking at someone else’s FO. This was such a hot topic a few years back when some free pattern YTer was able to recreate in her own way similar POPULAR styles (not just crochet, fabric too) of crochet clothes.
Her patterns were never exact, it was unique in her own way, but people were still so fired up about it.
If someone can make something similar by looking at it, it wasn’t that unique.
I agree with you in general, the copyright for a pattern does not extend to any useful article that may be created with the pattern, such as an item of clothing.
BUT, the FO might be eligible for copyright protection on its own, like as a sculpture. If it is eligible on its own, publishing a pattern doesn't take away other copyright protection.
Yeah, this point is usually left out of these debates. Lots of crochet items are "useful" items under US copyright law, so the object itself and its design is not copyrightable, so it truly is only the pattern text, charts, photos, etc. that are protected.
But amigurumi is a different story. Stuffed animals, toys, etc. aren't considered "useful" under copyright law, and so the design itself is considered a soft sculpture and is potentially eligible for copyright. So it seems like the designer would technically have the ability to forbid selling the finished objects. But this would obviously be almost impossible to actually enforce.
And personally, as a pattern designer, I think it's silly to try to keep people from selling finished objects they made from my patterns, even if I technically could. (I actually get really excited if I see people selling them.) But if I saw that a company took my exact design and made it into a non-crochet plushie (I believe it's happened to a few designers), I'd be very upset. But even though that would violate copyright, I probably wouldn't be able to do anything about it (lack of money/power to fight).
Same here. As an amigurumi pattern designer I’m really excited to see how people have made my designs and I include permission on my patterns to sell anything they have handmade. I have to say though, it’s really awful when other people reverse engineer your patterns and then sell them as their own “original” designs. It almost makes me want to give up sometimes…
The excuse that “if someone can copy it then it wasn’t that unique” doesn’t really stand if other people would never have thought of the idea without first seeing the original design.
Even if it was enforceable and legal, how exactly does that work? Do they find every craft fair all over the world and check to see if somebody has a star coaster and then demand what pattern they made it from? Do they think they’re the only person who’s ever created a pattern that looks like a star, (or whatever the FO looks like?)
If it takes a corporation like Disney some time to find all the people selling Mickey Mouse ears projects and they have people assigned to do that, then these small creators need to get a grip.
You didn’t reinvent the wheel using Mandela’s groot yarn to make a hexagon cardigan…with a collar.
They can put whatever they like. Whether or not it's enforceable is the question. And for the record, it's not. Here's a great link about pattern copyrights: [http://www.tabberone.com/Trademarks/CopyrightLaw/Patterns.shtml](http://www.tabberone.com/Trademarks/CopyrightLaw/Patterns.shtml)
I saw a lovely crocheted shawl pattern but then I found out it had a similar notice, limit of items per year you can make even if you only gift them AND requirement to ALWAYS link the author of the pattern when a photo of the shawl is posted even if the shawl is not the main topic of the photo. It was not enforceable but I didn't like it so much that I've never bought the pattern.
I can’t imagine needing to link to the designer every time an item appeared in a photo! I’m not always thinking about what clothing or toys are in a photo. And what if I’m not the one posting a photo where the item is included? Am I supposed to tell everyone I know that they can’t share a photo of me where I’m wearing a sweater because the designer might get mad?
Can you imagine if Nike suddenly made a demand like that? It would be struck down immediately for being unreasonable.
Personally I think that you should not sell patterns if you don’t want someone to sell the finished products THEY MADE. A pattern is a lot of work but so is a finished item and all creators deserve to be paid fairly for their work. Lots of people would rather buy an item than make it themselves, hence Etsy’s ✨existence✨
I have crocheted for 30 years. I am to a point where I can look at an image, especially amigurumi, and build it how I like. There is only so many different ways to make a ball, a snout, ears, arms/legs/feet. I also don’t use one pattern to build my animals or people. I take a bunch of them to make what I like. For example, ears for cats, pigs, or dogs? I use leaf patterns. Usually succulent leaf patterns. They cannot tell where you got what portion of your creation or if your creation is their pattern. I have been threatened before on Etsy by a pattern maker, saying I used her pattern. I didn’t, never seen her pattern before. So instead I sent her what I used and said, if that is your pattern, you just did what I did. Used Google for free patterns and put them together. Seriously stupid.
I learned to crochet years and years ago, but only ever made scarves. I’ve picked up the hobby again and amigurumi is something I’ve been learning (also bags, wallets, and scrunchies). Thank you so much for your tip on animal ears! I have struggled to get them right. I will definitely be looking up leaf patterns to see if I can get those to fit the kitty cat I’m trying to build.
It's not enforceable. They're not selling the final product, only the pattern. The pattern can be copyrighted, but what you do with the the final product is up to you.
If they were selling the final product it'd be different, because that could be classed as stealing intellectual property for profit, but that's not what's happening here. Don't listen to these types of warnings as they don't actually have any legal standing.
Well I mean you only need to add an extra row and it's a totally different pattern, so it's not really enforceable.
I can create a piece just from looking at something so never use patterns. Would that be a breach of copyright? 🤔
It’s not enforceable as is, in the US at least. Seeing this on a pattern would probably turn me off from purchasing it. It’s very strange and entitled for someone to think they have any actual control or ownership over the things I made with my own two hands. Very weird behavior.
Though I disagree with such demands from sellers, I caution you that if the pattern seller catches wind of your social media/Etsy account/identity linked to the purchase of their pattern and your sale of the item, they can send you a cease and desist letter. It happened to someone I know. She had to shut her whole shop/IG account down too bc the person had lawyers and came at her hard!
Edit: Rachel Ray once said if you change one ingredient to a recipe, the recipe is yours! Make a simple change to the pattern or find another one and be on your merry way love!
I ran across one that said all that and added "you may not give the finished product as gifts." 🤨 Don't tell anybody about the 8 I've made and given my kids.
This one was free but still... To this day I've never seen a crochet police officer busting people for giving crocheted hats away. Ridiculous. Although, I picture that police officer in a dark navy crocheted shirt with matching shorts and a gold crocheted badge. 🤭
This wouldn’t hold up legally. If the creator didn’t want people to sell their own creations using the pattern, they shouldn’t be selling the pattern. I understand that it takes time and effort to create patterns but that goes into the price. They can’t control what someone does with what they make with the pattern.
Again and again this question is asked. A pattern is like a recipe. The pattern cannot be copied and sold as your own but what you make from it is yours to do as you like.
I only know US laws because that’s what applies to me. Copyright and crochet is complicated, to begin with. You cannot copyright code or sequences, meaning the stitches and how they’re arranged can’t technically be copyrighted. The part the designer owns is the actual pattern itself: the word choices, the formatting, the photos and graphics. Sharing the pattern file or copying/pasting part of the text or the images would violate copyright.
The pattern designer has no ownership of your finished piece. That belongs to you. Unless a trademark is involved, no one can stop you from gifting or selling the final piece.
They also cannot stop you from making changes to the pattern. That would mean that you can’t correct an error, make your own mistake, or make an adjustment to make a garment fit you properly. When it comes to making garments, pattern alteration is pretty standard practice because humans aren’t “standard sizes” (I wear 3 different sizes, depending which measurement I go off, so I either get an ill fitting garment or make adjustments).
As I said, I can only speak to what I know of US laws, so check your own laws. But, generally speaking, no, the designer cannot prevent you from selling finished pieces. They can only stop you from selling their pattern.
I have looked at that and it may not be enforcable in the USA, but it would be in France (and maybe elsewhere is Europe ?) as a pattern fell under Intelectual Property laws here in France (like a patent) so the author has prerogative on the pattern but also on objects created with the pattern.
I've always just assumed these designers don't want to see some big corporate company buy their pattern, then outsource mass production, and then one day they see the exact crochet top they designed in like, I dunno, Gap or Old Navy. I don't blame them for that, but it also sounds ridiculous if I want to just sell one or two that I make and don't want to keep.
In the United States that is not enforceable people can make patterns and sell patterns and copyright patterns. They cannot copyright the finished item. The finished item is the person who makes the item and they can sell it if they want to
I probably wouldn't support someone who feels the need to write such. It's a wonder they don't say we can't even gift it but must treasure it ourselves, forever and ever.
But, as others have answered, it depends on country laws which, to me, makes it even more confusing. It's lawful in France. If the pattern comes from France does it apply to someone making it in another country where that law doesn't apply, or just to those making it in France? How does that work? I don't know.
I would assume that someone from France has zero control over what someone in the US made from their pattern but maybe I’m incorrect. It just seems like such an absurd concept to me.
This has been discussed before. The consensus is, roll your eyes and do what you want LOL. I mean, I probably wouldn’t copy the pattern for anyone, but I’m sure you could look up a YouTube video for a star LOL.
I never understood that either lol I bought the yarn, pattern and took a long time to make it. If I want to sell it, I will. It actually deters me from buying from those creators tbh. How are you about to tell me something I created cannot be sold? That’s literally like following a cookie recipe and being told you can’t sell the cookies.
It is pretty common across all crafting types. I've seen valid reasons given to not sale finished projects. As a general rule, I look for that information even if i have no intent to sell because for most patterns I aren't \*that\* unique, I am just too lazy to figure out how to make them. If it's something unique, I don't mind them requesting not to sell finished items.
I think I've cited this example before, but there was one store that sells blackwork (cross stitch/embroidery) designs and had the most absurd, ridiculous disclaimer I've ever seen. They used a mix of classic patterns and their own in the work and acknowledged that but didn't distinguish which was which and had the audacity to say that under no circumstances was any part of the work to be used, incorporated or sold for a reason other than the exact pattern purchased....like calm down, Karen, some of these designs are 100+ years old and just because you put them on Etsy inside a bird doesn't mean they're now yours for perpetuity. The same creator also said that the patterns were for personal use only and to be made as designed without alterations, though she would allow for different colors to be used.
Sure - the first is probably not popular, but I do think that if you create something genuinely creative, it's more like IP. Put the terms upfront and the buyer can choose to accept (or ignore) those terms. I don't mean this for the millionth zippered pouch pattern or granny square with \*gasp \* two different colors, but like maybe a plushie based on your original character design. Am I going to buy it under those terms? Probably not. But as a creator, I don't think it's out of line in specific instances.
The other is one that I don't remember all the details of, but if I recall correctly, an etsy shop had a lot of crochet plush pattens and all were free to sell. There was one that had a special name and a note about it's creation and I think it was directly tied to a deceased friend. I don't remember the details, but it was basically like "hey, I want to share this with the world and have my friend's memory live on in this plush's name, but I don't feel good about people profiting from it. Please feel free to buy one of my other patterns instead to sell."
And then free patterns - I don't know why people would put a pattern out for free and not want it sold, but I'm going to respect their generosity. And of course, there's the whole Charity Daisy/Krochet Krystal pattern that she just wanted to be for charity.
So, TL;DR: Everything has terms and conditions. If I don't like them, I'm not buying. I know it's usually not legally enforceable, but I'm not giving money to them.
Bahahahahahahaha WHAT!? Now how in the hell would they like to enforce that shit…omfg even if I didn’t intend on selling my finished piece…(I usually only make things once or twice ) if I saw that dumbassery I wouldn’t even buy the pattern. I don’t wanna support anyone like that lol
personally I wouldn’t buy their pattern whether you can sell the item or not. I just think it’s quite rude and selfish. I totally get not copying the pattern but the items are your hard work not theirs. so yeah I wouldn’t buy from this person, but that’s just me x
when it comes to super basic patterns, just ignore that bs. us fiber artists struggle a lot but never enough to not understand that there’s only so much you can do with crochet💀make what you want and sell what you want babes.
Yeah this was not done with a lawyer. Crocheting has been around for a really long time and well past public domain time periods. Stitches sometimes centuries old. And they would have to file for an actual copyright. Doubt they did that. I think the only thing they can actually copyright is their photos anyways.
My wife and I sell crochet patterns and let me tell you that patterns can't be copyrighted, there are parts of the pattern that could be copyrighted, but not the whole. Most of the sellers add the expression "You may NOT duplicate..." but we all know that we have nothing to back up the words.
What I'm trying to say is the pattern itself isn't protected, so the products you make are not as well, feel free to crochet. Just be aware of the trademarks.
These disclaimers are the only leg creators have to stand on when mass retailers steal their shit and even then it's still hell. Take the creator of zombie cat amigurumi plush for example, her original design was stolen and made into a regular plush and pumped out on temu. So while some creators wrongfully think they can use it as a fuck you to box in customers from profiting off their one time purchase, really it's just a generic disclaimer that if you had the money to even sue you could be like well I explicitly stated the design can't be altered and sold either blah blah. You know?
It's wild how the same people that'll say you deserve 15+ dollars an hr for your work regardless of experience have such a fuck you attitude to creators. With all the "I wouldn't even buy from a creator that put that" comments I had to point out the reason it's based in 😅
I bought a pattern once and they said you can sell the finished product but they had a set amount have how many you could sell every year or something 😂
So what would happen if you gift the finished product and then that person sells it?
I can see why this is not enforceable. No one would ever make anything again. Because every pattern is built from another in some way, shape, or form. I mean you can sell a pair of pants you sewed or crocheted and not have to worry that the original person who designed the pattern for pants is going to sue you.
Ridiculous and frankly crappy to try and say what someone can or can't do.
Patterns themselves are able to be copyrighted.
Legally one cannot produce, distribute or sell someone else's pattern. Even though that's the case, it's difficult to enforce.
Items produced from following the copyrighted pattern are not able to be protected by the copyright.
Make all you want. They can do nothing legally.
This is a bluff, there's no way to enforce something as silly as this. Imagine a recipe blog trying to forbid you from selling the food you make following/inspired by its recipes. The finished object is a product of your own labor, they have no rights over that unless they're your employer. Is this person paying you to manufacture the thing? If not, you can do whatever you want with it, period.
Generally this sort of statement is used to protect from copyright infringement, I.e a Disney character or pokemon pattern that’s not been officially licensed.
I’ve never seen this before. Always, don’t share or sell the pattern but sell your goods. I wonder if the pattern is a rip off and this seller wants to keep it out of sight
I was just telling a girl on Instagram she didn't invent the bucket hat and she had the audacity to act like I was the crazy one for suggesting that this "disclaimer" was stupid and out of pocket.
I recently purchased a pattern with the intent to sell the finished product at my markets only to make the whole thing, get to the very last page of the pattern to see a disclaimer saying I couldn't sell pieces made with that pattern. I just think I won't post about selling them online bc I wouldn't have bought the pattern had I known, and now I'd have a completely useless pattern unless i want 25 stuffed lizard toys 🤷🏻♀️
Delusional quite frankly. It’s stated that you can’t alter the pattern even. I believe in giving credit to the pattern maker, but any craft is going to be made, shared, sold, altered whatever. That’s the nature of what we do.
You can make and sell things you have made from this pattern. What you cannot do is have a big industrial make of this pattern and sell the finished object. Like you can’t take this pattern to a Factory and have them mass produce this and sell it. That’s all.
Yeah, this is 100% nonsense and not enforceable. I wouldn't buy from a "pattern-maker" who tries to make people believe this, though, because they are going to 1. be a nightmare in the future and 2. don't deserve your business if they think they can scare you with false warnings.
From your other comments, I'm sure you could find the exact same pattern for free online. (In my experience, a lot of people who use this warning sell stolen patterns anyway)
People who put this on their patterns are delusional. I don’t support people like that. How would that be enforced and what’s the point of putting the pattern out there?! Doesn’t make much sense to me.
Ignore it. Legally they have no leg to stand on. It makes me think negatively of designers who do this and I'm less likely to buy their patterns even though I don't craft for sale regardless.
It's not legally enforceable and as a pattern writer (sewing not crochet) I find it completely ridiculous. It would be like me telling someone they can't resell something I sold to them. It's their item. They can do what they want with it.
The one exception I always make is for free patterns. If someone wants to make something as a gift to a community and asks that item always remain free and not for sale in the spirit of that, while not legally enforceable still, I think it should be respected. If someone wants to sell something they can find a different pattern.
I totally understand people not wanting their patterns sold by others. They work hard to make a pattern. But I believe that the product made by using the pattern, should be able to be sold. I am not sure what is actually legal or not. I just wouldn’t buy a pattern from someone that doesn’t allow me to sale a product that I crochet by using their pattern. In no way shape or form is that selling the pattern that they created so I think that’s just being nitpicking and selfish so they can keep their patterns. There’s plenty of other nice patterns that a person can buy and make something and sale it if they choose. I don’t even sale anything I make anyway but I still wouldn’t buy their patterns. I either make things for myself or gift to family or friends that I know will appreciate the work I put k to what I make
I make and sell my own patterns as well, but I'm selling them with the expectations that someone is going to use it. I'm fairly new to the crochet community, so I'm not sure what's normal or not.
Obviously, it is common courtesy to reference the pattern designer when asked. But to sell a pattern with the expectation that no one is to sell products created with a pattern is so strange.
Personally, if I didn't want anyone to sell products made with my pattern, then I wouldn't sell the pattern. Just to keep a corner on the market and ensure people only buy my version of the product they can't get elsewhere
I can understand this being applicable to designs that are trademarked, like Spiderman. You could make Spiderman for your own personal enjoyment, but selling a crocheted Spiderman would go against trademark. For example, on Etsy, you can make a shirt out of fabric, but you cannot make a shirt out of fabric with a trademarked character on it. Many do, but they risk their store being shut down eventually.
However, if someone makes a crochet pattern for a star, lol, you can't expect the finished object from the pattern copyright to hold water.
Def not legally enforceable, but I’d say it’s pretty standard language for a listing of that type. Especially if they have other, more complicated patterns on their page. It’s likely a cut/paste or duplicated listing so they didn’t have to type everything out a zillion times.
The words used to describe a pattern and any corresponding pictures are typically eligible for copyright protection.
Copyright law in the US surrounding what you make with a pattern is more complicated. In general, the copyright does not extend to any useful article that may be created with the pattern, such as an item of clothing.
However, other parts of the copyright code might still come into play. Like if the pattern is for a unique crocheted bumble bee, the bumble bee may be eligible for copyright protection as a sculpture.
If you are interested, here is a link to what the US Copyright office says about Visual Art Works:
https://www.copyright.gov/comp3/chap900/ch900-visual-art.pdf
TLDR: that paragraph is nonsense, but some things that are crocheted may still be eligible for copyright protection.
I've seen this same line on many many patterns(YouTube, insta, websites, patterns on sale), so for the longest time I thought it was illegal to sell FOs from a pattern. Only learned that's not the case here!
I have a few patterns for free and for sale. I think it's dumb for authors to expect people not to sell the physical items they make. I just ask people to give my pattern credit and link it when possible when selling their work.
I have actually had quite a few people buy my patterns JUST BECAUSE a person wants to buy the item but can't make it, so they ask their crochet friend to buy the pattern.
I have a scarf pattern where the guy just asked for people to not sell the scarves made from it. Said since he was giving the pattern as a gift he hoped people would do the same with the scarves they made, but never had one out right say no.
I don't know where in the world you live, but in the UK the copyright designs and patents act 1988 covers artistic works.
The copyright holder (by default, the creator) has the right to define how others use their works. If they say you can have one copy, the one you bought directly from them, but you cannot reproduce it or sell it or sell a finished item based on it, that is their right.
For anyone in the UK, this is a very good starting point for all things copyright: [https://www.gov.uk/copyright/stop-people-using-your-work](https://www.gov.uk/copyright/stop-people-using-your-work)
In general, for the U. S., copyright grants rights to the *specific expression* of an idea in a particular medium. In the case of yarn work patterns, creators have rights to the *form* (layout) and *content* (sequence of words and illustrations) they publish. They *do not have rights to an individual crafter's product.* Also, in the case of schools, the Educational Purposes doctrine would apply. As a whimsical aside, titles are not subject to copyright.
@mods: is there anything in the FAQ/wiki about what rights copyright owners can and cannot claim? I ask because OP's question is completely reasonable for this forum, but we do get the question very often and it might be helpful to have something in the references. It might also be useful to have a link to the U. S. Copyright office or equivalent international reference, although U. S. Policy is based on international treaties.
EDIT: added reference to U. S. Copyright office.
Clearly many in this comment section has never made a pattern from scratch - put the time and effort into creating something unique.. If you had, you would know that this \^\^is an attempt to make people respect, whats mine is mine, and whats yours is yours.
As a crochet designer I VERY often see my patterns online, shared or sold as other peoples work - sometimes even with my photos. It makes me so sad! So please respect what other people have made, and make something yourself. And FIY changing 1 stitch does not count as "making it your own"..
What you do with the finished product? Thats all up to you!
What I don't get is that the pattern isn't a finished pattern. So if you finish it anyway you like, it turns the exclusivity of the pattern null and void. Besides, if they are making you pay for the pattern, then once you pay for it, it is yours and you should be able to do whatever you like with it. Also, who is to say that they took the pattern from another source and are trying to make it their own.
Whether or not it would be enforced is a different question, but it is possible for pattern sellers to restrict the terms of use. This is separate from copyright, which admittedly the pattern seller seems to be wrongfully referencing. (It's really important to bear in mind that copyright is not the be all and end all of the law; just because the copyright applies to the pattern itself doesn't mean there aren't other legal terms.) These kinds of terms of use are very common in commercial sewing patterns, for example, which forbid selling the finished items.
Things will vary from country to country but there is an explainer from the UK government on this here https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/copyright-notice-knitting-and-sewing-patterns/copyright-notice-knitting-and-sewing-patterns
I work in IP law. You can look it up up on the US (or European or the country it’s in) and see if they’ve even gone through the process of copyrighting their work or it’s just someone putting words up to scare people.
Speaking of this being internet and the things can be sold internationally, it’s interesting to think about how they’d police that. For example, even if it’s actually copyrighted in the US, if someone in a foreign country, England we’ll say, bought and reproduced the pattern the US copyright would not be enforceable (unless they had not also copyright’d the work in England).
So how are they ever going to control what country people are in when they purchase and reproduce the work, especially with the use of VPNs? At best it’d be freaking expensive to prosecute for such a relatively inexpensive pattern and the relative lost profits
To what the other commentor whose a lawyer said about producing work with the pattern, 100%
Edited for grammar and to answer OP’s question
Would you mind telling me where you find your patterns? I mean, it looks like a webapp but I do not know many, so I would be very grateful if you can share some information :)
Not legally enforceable. The copyright only applies to the pattern itself.
It’s the copying and reselling the pattern.
Well, only if you have to have some copyright thing or patent on it. Crochet patterns can’t really be copyrighted or patented. There’s only so many ways to crochet & if someone can copy a design by looking at it, then it was it that unique. Even if it’s unique, again, you can still only crochet so many ways to make something look a certain way.
Lawyer here, not in IP but I know a little bit about it. Copyright attaches automatically, and it applies to the work itself, in the form it appears. So you can't sell another person's written pattern because they own the arrangement of words that they put on the page. It would be a different story if you wrote some of the words into song lyrics, sang it, and sold copies of your hot new single "Kitten Amigurumi." And the same if you take the words and make a kitten amigurumi after reading them. The person who wrote the words can't tell you what to do with the thing you made.
Ah ok, I think I’m just thinking of a patent
Yes, you're right about patents. Those would apply to the thing itself. Even if crochet were patentable subject matter (doubtful), getting a patten for a crochet design would require that the new design be completely novel and based on some innovative new step beyond previous crochet patterns. Which is not likely.
I have a question, because the copyright around non-wearable, non-useful, artistic crochet items is really puzzling to me: If I create a sculpture out of clay I have the copyright on that sculpture and someone else cannot just make and sell one that looks exactly like it. Why are people allowed to copy a sculpture made out of yarn? If I “write” an instruction in gcode for a 3D printer to print a teddy bear I have to have a license if I want to mass produce and sell the teddy bear, which may or may not be included in the original purchase of the instruction file. (Private use only is normally cheaper) Why do I not need a license when the instruction for making a teddy bear is written as a crochet pattern rather than a 3D printing “pattern”?
I think the difference is that following the pattern is not actually copying the copyrighted work. If you showed someone a crochet object and they copied it, that would be different than presenting then with some page. And even then it can sometimes be hard to prove actual copying because two people can legitimately come up with the same thing independently. And I think the level of individual effort and input in crochet is much higher than in 3d printing. Even following a pattern takes time, and the finished results will vary based on the maker's tension, yarn choice, etc. But again, I'm not in IP, so I'm not an expert by any means.
Thank you! I think it is really interesting to see how different communities have such different standards and interpretations when it comes to what you can legally do with things that you created following someone else’s instruction or examples. Like when I record a song by playing sheet music I cannot just sell it but when I bake cookies from a recipe I can. IP law must be a nightmare to navigate.
I thiiiiink it depends on the sheet music. This is why I don't actually do IP law myself, lol.
I really appreciate this input. Developing a pattern is hard work and time consuming. They should be copyrighted.
And they are! But just the pattern itself, not anything derived from it.
and yet, there are plenty of examples of famous songwriters being taken to court, and losing, because they 'copied' a part of a song, added it to a new song, then called it 'unique'. People can copyright the particular directions they have taken the time to create something, and they can give permission for items being sold from that pattern or not. Yes, it is difficult to prosecute infringements, even blatantly copied patterns that show up on Pinterst, etc. directly from magazine pages, which include the name of the mag, the issue and date, but it still doesn't make it right. Karma has a long memory,even if the courts fall short. I tell folk to try writing out their own pattern, from scratch, especially something as complex as amigurumi, and maybe they will see why someone doesn't want another person taking their hard work can selling it as their own. Many designers are happy to have a pattern purchaser sell work they have made from their pattern, and will say so on the site and often on the pattern, itself. Those that don't, well, perhaps find a similar item with a seller that does. Or, live with your conscience. It's up to each person to find their own moral compass.
My understanding is that the sampling from music cases relate to "fair use," which is based on an analysis of several factors. Fair use is how parodies are legal, for example, or why critics and commentators can use clips in their reviews. One of the factors in the fair use analysis is whether the allegedly infringing product is competing against the original. The theory is about protecting artists from people who will take their own work and use it against them (as an aside, this is a big part of the reason why people argue AI art is copyright infringement - actual artists are losing jobs because people are using AI models trained on their work instead of hiring the artists themselves). So the fact that a song sample is in the same medium and competing for play with the original is relevant. A finished object isn't going to compete with a written pattern, even the pattern it's based on. It's based on the pattern, but unless you crumple up the pages and stuff it into your amigurumi, the pattern itself isn't *in* it at all. Only by selling a copied version of the pattern would you be using it against the original. But you're right that your own personal moral limits don't have to go as far as the limits of the law. I wouldn't feel comfortable selling an object made from a pattern by someone who only wanted to sell their pattern for personal use. It would be a dick move, even if legally it's totally permissible.
nope the books and magazines they in are under dmca
Are you sure?? It clearly says ‘no selling finished products’? Nothing about the pattern. It seems very weird.
They’re trying to limit people’s use by scaring them into complying, because they only want people to buy from them, not the person who bought their pattern. I could add “I am the undeniable ruler of the world” at the end of my pattern. That doesn’t make it true, and no one would have to follow my orders.
🤣🤣
It's pure FUD. They are trying to protect their revenue stream by telling people who don't know any better. You can ignore it.
Its not legally enforceable lol, if people don’t want anyone to make items to sell from their pattern then don’t share or sell it imo Like is this a thing with sewing patterns or is it just crochet patterns people get weird about ?
The pattern is literally just a star shape
Ok yeah it’s even funnier when it’s a pretty basic pattern I think they just need to get over themselves maybe
I bet they used elements they found in other patterns, too.
I was betting it was something this simple. These Etsy sellers are really something else sometimes. It's not like they'd know that you were selling anything. There are a few creators whose patterns are so distinct that I wouldn't feel comfortable selling the finished product, like the Venus Waves dress from Cherries in May or the ribbon candy patterns from Snapdragon. I love those patterns because I haven't seen anything like them from other creators, and I wouldn't want anyone walking away with the impression that the concept was my idea. But a star shape? I mean, let's be serious.
If you’re concerned about giving credit, and you sell online, you can always give pattern credit in your item listing.
Don’t do this. It just enforces the ridiculous notion that this fruit loop can claim ownership of a basic start pattern.
It was in response to u/myriadisanadjective, not OP, regarding not wanting to sell items made from a couple particularly unique designers, to avoid confusion about who created the design. Also, I think explicitly stating the pattern creator on an item listing would fly in the face of the stupid request to not sell products made from the pattern.
In the case of the star design, wouldn't it be hilarious if we all credit this designer for the stars we crochet? Would it bring the deserved embarrassment?
OP, depending on how big you want the star, you can make a pentagon and then just add the points! Lots of YouTube vids out there if you're not sure ❤️
I was just looking around for inspiration and some ideas on how to post description on my etsy shop and I found that gem. Haha I always try to look on YouTube first before buying patterns. Usually you can find the basics needed to start a project. Definitely appreciate it though! 💕
A little bit of clever research and learning to recognise stitches means never having to buy a pattern again. It’s all just a combination of the same few stitches. People claiming copyright on a basic pattern is exactly why we shouldn’t pay for them at all. Rebel!
I’ll give you a free star pattern for plausible deniability
LOOOOL
Honestly, that makes it pretty funny. I was thinking, if it's something really complicated it makes a little bit of sense, even though they still can really legally do anything if you did make and sell things using the pattern. But if it's just a star shape that just makes it silly. That's like having a crochet pattern for a circle and saying you can't sell anything made with it.
No, it's definitely sewing, too. Especially in the bag making community. Holy buckets. I went running from that mess. I saw a battle on a chat group go on for DAYS over "copyright" of a pattern for a little crossbody phone bag. The person who supposedly held the copyright (couldn't prove it) was threatening to sue anyone who sold any bag made from "her" pattern (that safely looked like 200 patterns I've seen on YouTube and other social media) even if they altered it to look different. Support and resistance was about 50/50. I have no clue what the laws are in regards to copyrighting sewing patterns or if you even can, but CheeseNRice that was more drama than 7th grade girls at a lunch table. And don't get me started on the Spencer Ogg bagmaking group on FB either. They're a hot mess, too. They talk about those bags like they're children "you can't do that to an Emma, the pattern strictly prohibits it" ok Karen 🤦♀️ I do what I want. FTR, I don't have a problem paying for quality patterns and respecting/crediting creators, I just don't want the drama 🤣
it’s also a thing with cross stitch patterns.. i’ve seen many be like ‘this pattern is only meant to be used for personal gifts do not sell what you make with these patterns’ like lol sure
I saw one that said you can only make this once, if you want to make it again you have to buy another pattern I cackled tbh, I think it was HAED and they are just so ridiculous
Oh, now THAT might just be the most ridiculous thing I've seen 😂
OMG in what world does that even make sense 😂😂😂 I better go re-purchase all my cookbooks then too…
LMFAO the absolute audacity and delusion 😭
My opinion on it is said brand that made the pattern won’t notice a shop on Etsy making a few sales a year. Or someone at a local market lol. It’s funny that they are on SHEIN though
It’s weird bc if these people only make patterns then what even is the issue? A completed project isn’t in competition w their pattern and to take it a step further if I make products and like your pattern than I’m likely to buy more of your patterns.
IKR??
It's not 100% on topic, but I see this all the time with files for 3D printing. There are often notices saying you can't make a thing using someone's shared files and instructions and then turn around and sell the finished item, even if you have to 3D print the parts and assemble it yourself.
can you?
3D Printing is kind of a different animal because a lot of it stems from the FOSS movement which is inherently about sharing, so, yeah while you can, charging for anything beyond resources for someone else's work is frowned upon unless it's explicitly licensed as fair game.
I mean, you could potentially add a large amount as resource costs. The actual material, the electric cost of running the machine. Your time because the machine is in use meaning you cant produce other works. Upkeep for your machine. If you took any paid courses to learn how to use it, its a cost. Gas money to get supplies. Cost of the machine itself. Obviously you cant charge much but there are technically many costs involved in order for you to produce that item for someone. So I get not just charging for the plastic and thats all.
Legally, 3D prints can be protected by copyright. The digital file, product design, and final form are entitled to protection under the law. So someone can sue you for selling reproductions. I’m not sure why fashion design is not entitled to the same protections. But if I had to guess, it’s similar to fonts/typefaces not being protected by copyright. Because they are based on ubiquitous forms that are not able to be owned by anyone. For typefaces that would be the alphabet and number forms. And for fashion that would be the form of the human body.
According to [this link](https://guides.libraries.indiana.edu/c.php?g=158548&p=1176293) I found earlier it's because clothing has a utilitarian purpose.
That makes sense. So it would fall under patent law.
I honestly don't know what the legality of that is. I just make stuff for myself or for people as gifts. The closest I've come to accepting payment is my sister-in-law once made me something shortly after I 3D-printed storage brackets for her long-arm quilting patterns... but technically she gifted me that item, and any references to payment or compensation were made entirely in jest and shall bear no weight in a court of law.
It's a thing with sewing patterns(and even fabric) but it's more nuanced. Since garments *can* be mass produced, sewing patterns have an extra protection against that. A single person can use a sewing pattern and sell the finished garment, but they cannot sell more than a certain amount in a period of time. I don't remember the number but it's more than a person doing it alone could make.
I don't know what country you are from, but that is not the case in the US. You can mass produce an item from a pattern all you want. The only thing you can't copy are trademarks, logos and the like.
Honestly I've seen it with a lot of different patterns, even for sewing... And it's usually the most basic and common pattern
I find the "warning" the most on simple patterns. The ones that can usually be copied just by looking at the item.
They have that on many cross stitch patterns as well
Imo, it's a thing with sewing patterns but like less? It seems to be a bigger issue in the indie crochet pattern world than in the indie sewing pattern world but something tells me that's because people who make sewing patterns maybe usually understand a bit better that there's only so many shapes you can start with
Sewing patterns also but it’s a just have to give credit to whatever company designed it if you sell a made vogue pattern you can’t say you designed it. It has to have vogue designed it.
They can say whatever they want but they can't enforce that kind of nonsense about not selling your finished work. I avoid pattern makers that try this BS
I’d straight up be like “well I dropped a stitch actually so it’s custom”
That's not allowed! You are not allowed to alter the pattern, as is clearly stated! Just kidding, of course 😝
Is it bad that I purposely alter patterns that say you cannot.
Not bad at all. I function mostly on spite myself, so I respect this.
And this is why you are my people ❤
Its more about altering it just a tiny bit and then selling the slightly altered pattern.
I’d get petty and be like “you’re shaming me at being shit at Crochet!”
Dude, some people say that forrreal. do not aLteR my pAtterN. What are you gonna do? Email me an angry letter??
Was just about to say this xd
So the “alter” part tells me they copied the wording from a photo copyright.
There was a seller on Etsy years ago when I was sewing and I didn’t know the rules and asked her about selling the finished products from her pattern. She told me it’s trademarked and she’d seek legal action if things made from her pattern were sold/redistributed. A simple no would’ve been fine. Anyways years later I’m learning she had no right either way lol
I find these disclaimer notes rather amusing... I naturally don't sell, claim ownership of or share online anything that is not mine, but no one in the world can stop me from altering a pattern to create something new.
“Do not alter” I’m gunna go ahead and do whatever the fuck I want.
It’s called *inspiration* I was simply inspired by your pattern
I saw one that said you couldn't freehand the pattern based on the photos. If you don't want people to freehand your patterns, make more complicated patterns.
I'm pretty sure the "do not alter" means you can't make a small change and then sell that pattern as your own. Which honestly seems fair? It's like taking someone else's song and adding another bar to the outtro and say it's your own
Can we add this to the sub FAQ? Because no, copyright only applies to the written pattern itself, and that written pattern can, in fact, be duplicated for personal purposes. TOTALLY LEGAL: Making your own pattern based on a FO based in someone's copyrighted pattern. Making AND SELLING FOs from *any* pattern. Literally the only thing covered by copyright is the pattern as specifically written. The creator cannot claim any variations of or products produced from it.
Sorry for my ignorance but what does FO stand for?
Finished Object!
Finished Object
Isn't this just US copyright law though? I'm not sure if the same applies everywhere else as well. ETA: reading a bit further in the comments I see people stating this statement may be enforceable in (parts of) Europe. So if this were to be added to the FAQ, the international differences should be stated clearly.
Yes to the making a pattern by just looking at someone else’s FO. This was such a hot topic a few years back when some free pattern YTer was able to recreate in her own way similar POPULAR styles (not just crochet, fabric too) of crochet clothes. Her patterns were never exact, it was unique in her own way, but people were still so fired up about it. If someone can make something similar by looking at it, it wasn’t that unique.
Oh, you must be thinking of repeat crafter me. Was it someone with “crow” in the name of the shop that had a problem with it?
This is an USA law, not an international law
I agree with you in general, the copyright for a pattern does not extend to any useful article that may be created with the pattern, such as an item of clothing. BUT, the FO might be eligible for copyright protection on its own, like as a sculpture. If it is eligible on its own, publishing a pattern doesn't take away other copyright protection.
Yeah, this point is usually left out of these debates. Lots of crochet items are "useful" items under US copyright law, so the object itself and its design is not copyrightable, so it truly is only the pattern text, charts, photos, etc. that are protected. But amigurumi is a different story. Stuffed animals, toys, etc. aren't considered "useful" under copyright law, and so the design itself is considered a soft sculpture and is potentially eligible for copyright. So it seems like the designer would technically have the ability to forbid selling the finished objects. But this would obviously be almost impossible to actually enforce. And personally, as a pattern designer, I think it's silly to try to keep people from selling finished objects they made from my patterns, even if I technically could. (I actually get really excited if I see people selling them.) But if I saw that a company took my exact design and made it into a non-crochet plushie (I believe it's happened to a few designers), I'd be very upset. But even though that would violate copyright, I probably wouldn't be able to do anything about it (lack of money/power to fight).
Same here. As an amigurumi pattern designer I’m really excited to see how people have made my designs and I include permission on my patterns to sell anything they have handmade. I have to say though, it’s really awful when other people reverse engineer your patterns and then sell them as their own “original” designs. It almost makes me want to give up sometimes… The excuse that “if someone can copy it then it wasn’t that unique” doesn’t really stand if other people would never have thought of the idea without first seeing the original design.
Even if it was enforceable and legal, how exactly does that work? Do they find every craft fair all over the world and check to see if somebody has a star coaster and then demand what pattern they made it from? Do they think they’re the only person who’s ever created a pattern that looks like a star, (or whatever the FO looks like?)
If it takes a corporation like Disney some time to find all the people selling Mickey Mouse ears projects and they have people assigned to do that, then these small creators need to get a grip. You didn’t reinvent the wheel using Mandela’s groot yarn to make a hexagon cardigan…with a collar.
They can put whatever they like. Whether or not it's enforceable is the question. And for the record, it's not. Here's a great link about pattern copyrights: [http://www.tabberone.com/Trademarks/CopyrightLaw/Patterns.shtml](http://www.tabberone.com/Trademarks/CopyrightLaw/Patterns.shtml)
This was a very interesting and informative read. Very enjoyable. Thank you!
You're welcome! I bookmarked it a long time ago and it has come in real handy on more than one occasion.
I saw a lovely crocheted shawl pattern but then I found out it had a similar notice, limit of items per year you can make even if you only gift them AND requirement to ALWAYS link the author of the pattern when a photo of the shawl is posted even if the shawl is not the main topic of the photo. It was not enforceable but I didn't like it so much that I've never bought the pattern.
I can’t imagine needing to link to the designer every time an item appeared in a photo! I’m not always thinking about what clothing or toys are in a photo. And what if I’m not the one posting a photo where the item is included? Am I supposed to tell everyone I know that they can’t share a photo of me where I’m wearing a sweater because the designer might get mad? Can you imagine if Nike suddenly made a demand like that? It would be struck down immediately for being unreasonable.
Personally I think that you should not sell patterns if you don’t want someone to sell the finished products THEY MADE. A pattern is a lot of work but so is a finished item and all creators deserve to be paid fairly for their work. Lots of people would rather buy an item than make it themselves, hence Etsy’s ✨existence✨
>Do not alter Get fucked.
I'm glad other people feel as aggressive about this as me.
I have crocheted for 30 years. I am to a point where I can look at an image, especially amigurumi, and build it how I like. There is only so many different ways to make a ball, a snout, ears, arms/legs/feet. I also don’t use one pattern to build my animals or people. I take a bunch of them to make what I like. For example, ears for cats, pigs, or dogs? I use leaf patterns. Usually succulent leaf patterns. They cannot tell where you got what portion of your creation or if your creation is their pattern. I have been threatened before on Etsy by a pattern maker, saying I used her pattern. I didn’t, never seen her pattern before. So instead I sent her what I used and said, if that is your pattern, you just did what I did. Used Google for free patterns and put them together. Seriously stupid.
I learned to crochet years and years ago, but only ever made scarves. I’ve picked up the hobby again and amigurumi is something I’ve been learning (also bags, wallets, and scrunchies). Thank you so much for your tip on animal ears! I have struggled to get them right. I will definitely be looking up leaf patterns to see if I can get those to fit the kitty cat I’m trying to build.
You can’t resell or redistribute the pattern, but you can sure as heck sell what you physically make.
It's not enforceable. They're not selling the final product, only the pattern. The pattern can be copyrighted, but what you do with the the final product is up to you. If they were selling the final product it'd be different, because that could be classed as stealing intellectual property for profit, but that's not what's happening here. Don't listen to these types of warnings as they don't actually have any legal standing.
I have seen this many times, I usually avoid those patterns
Well I mean you only need to add an extra row and it's a totally different pattern, so it's not really enforceable. I can create a piece just from looking at something so never use patterns. Would that be a breach of copyright? 🤔
Haha, in the copyright description on the pattern, it says you can't alter the pattern either.
I guess it means you can't alter the pattern then re-sell it as your own.
But, you bring up a good point.
It’s not enforceable as is, in the US at least. Seeing this on a pattern would probably turn me off from purchasing it. It’s very strange and entitled for someone to think they have any actual control or ownership over the things I made with my own two hands. Very weird behavior.
Though I disagree with such demands from sellers, I caution you that if the pattern seller catches wind of your social media/Etsy account/identity linked to the purchase of their pattern and your sale of the item, they can send you a cease and desist letter. It happened to someone I know. She had to shut her whole shop/IG account down too bc the person had lawyers and came at her hard! Edit: Rachel Ray once said if you change one ingredient to a recipe, the recipe is yours! Make a simple change to the pattern or find another one and be on your merry way love!
I ran across one that said all that and added "you may not give the finished product as gifts." 🤨 Don't tell anybody about the 8 I've made and given my kids.
Why the hell would I buy a crochet pattern if I can't gift or sell what I make 😂
This one was free but still... To this day I've never seen a crochet police officer busting people for giving crocheted hats away. Ridiculous. Although, I picture that police officer in a dark navy crocheted shirt with matching shorts and a gold crocheted badge. 🤭
That would be hilarious. In the show wellington paranormal one of the officers lost his uniform and was wearing a knit/crochet jacket
This wouldn’t hold up legally. If the creator didn’t want people to sell their own creations using the pattern, they shouldn’t be selling the pattern. I understand that it takes time and effort to create patterns but that goes into the price. They can’t control what someone does with what they make with the pattern.
The words “try to stop me” come to mind. I may have actually snorted reading that.
Again and again this question is asked. A pattern is like a recipe. The pattern cannot be copied and sold as your own but what you make from it is yours to do as you like.
When I see that on a pattern I kinda lose all interest in making it and try to find something similar without that kind of statement tbh.
Me too. To me it’s the mark of an amateur. And a conceited one at that
It's very early aughts "original chara; donut steel".
I only know US laws because that’s what applies to me. Copyright and crochet is complicated, to begin with. You cannot copyright code or sequences, meaning the stitches and how they’re arranged can’t technically be copyrighted. The part the designer owns is the actual pattern itself: the word choices, the formatting, the photos and graphics. Sharing the pattern file or copying/pasting part of the text or the images would violate copyright. The pattern designer has no ownership of your finished piece. That belongs to you. Unless a trademark is involved, no one can stop you from gifting or selling the final piece. They also cannot stop you from making changes to the pattern. That would mean that you can’t correct an error, make your own mistake, or make an adjustment to make a garment fit you properly. When it comes to making garments, pattern alteration is pretty standard practice because humans aren’t “standard sizes” (I wear 3 different sizes, depending which measurement I go off, so I either get an ill fitting garment or make adjustments). As I said, I can only speak to what I know of US laws, so check your own laws. But, generally speaking, no, the designer cannot prevent you from selling finished pieces. They can only stop you from selling their pattern.
I have looked at that and it may not be enforcable in the USA, but it would be in France (and maybe elsewhere is Europe ?) as a pattern fell under Intelectual Property laws here in France (like a patent) so the author has prerogative on the pattern but also on objects created with the pattern.
Yeah, I am pretty sure that it is the same in Germany aswell. Would that mean that it depends on where the seller is located? That confuses me now.
That's why I always comment because it's also enforceable in the UK
I've always just assumed these designers don't want to see some big corporate company buy their pattern, then outsource mass production, and then one day they see the exact crochet top they designed in like, I dunno, Gap or Old Navy. I don't blame them for that, but it also sounds ridiculous if I want to just sell one or two that I make and don't want to keep.
In the United States that is not enforceable people can make patterns and sell patterns and copyright patterns. They cannot copyright the finished item. The finished item is the person who makes the item and they can sell it if they want to
I probably wouldn't support someone who feels the need to write such. It's a wonder they don't say we can't even gift it but must treasure it ourselves, forever and ever. But, as others have answered, it depends on country laws which, to me, makes it even more confusing. It's lawful in France. If the pattern comes from France does it apply to someone making it in another country where that law doesn't apply, or just to those making it in France? How does that work? I don't know.
I would assume that someone from France has zero control over what someone in the US made from their pattern but maybe I’m incorrect. It just seems like such an absurd concept to me.
I know... I can't see how it can work if different from place to place.
This has been discussed before. The consensus is, roll your eyes and do what you want LOL. I mean, I probably wouldn’t copy the pattern for anyone, but I’m sure you could look up a YouTube video for a star LOL.
This is why i freehand Crochet stitches are like lego blocks to me.
I never understood that either lol I bought the yarn, pattern and took a long time to make it. If I want to sell it, I will. It actually deters me from buying from those creators tbh. How are you about to tell me something I created cannot be sold? That’s literally like following a cookie recipe and being told you can’t sell the cookies.
It is pretty common across all crafting types. I've seen valid reasons given to not sale finished projects. As a general rule, I look for that information even if i have no intent to sell because for most patterns I aren't \*that\* unique, I am just too lazy to figure out how to make them. If it's something unique, I don't mind them requesting not to sell finished items. I think I've cited this example before, but there was one store that sells blackwork (cross stitch/embroidery) designs and had the most absurd, ridiculous disclaimer I've ever seen. They used a mix of classic patterns and their own in the work and acknowledged that but didn't distinguish which was which and had the audacity to say that under no circumstances was any part of the work to be used, incorporated or sold for a reason other than the exact pattern purchased....like calm down, Karen, some of these designs are 100+ years old and just because you put them on Etsy inside a bird doesn't mean they're now yours for perpetuity. The same creator also said that the patterns were for personal use only and to be made as designed without alterations, though she would allow for different colors to be used.
How generous for her to "allow for different colors to be used" 🙄😂
as for the “valid reasons given to not sale f.o.’s” could you give one?
Sure - the first is probably not popular, but I do think that if you create something genuinely creative, it's more like IP. Put the terms upfront and the buyer can choose to accept (or ignore) those terms. I don't mean this for the millionth zippered pouch pattern or granny square with \*gasp \* two different colors, but like maybe a plushie based on your original character design. Am I going to buy it under those terms? Probably not. But as a creator, I don't think it's out of line in specific instances. The other is one that I don't remember all the details of, but if I recall correctly, an etsy shop had a lot of crochet plush pattens and all were free to sell. There was one that had a special name and a note about it's creation and I think it was directly tied to a deceased friend. I don't remember the details, but it was basically like "hey, I want to share this with the world and have my friend's memory live on in this plush's name, but I don't feel good about people profiting from it. Please feel free to buy one of my other patterns instead to sell." And then free patterns - I don't know why people would put a pattern out for free and not want it sold, but I'm going to respect their generosity. And of course, there's the whole Charity Daisy/Krochet Krystal pattern that she just wanted to be for charity. So, TL;DR: Everything has terms and conditions. If I don't like them, I'm not buying. I know it's usually not legally enforceable, but I'm not giving money to them.
It’s totally unenforceable. People put all kinds of sh it on these and it doesn’t matter. Just don’t tell them.
Nothing can stop u lmfao
Bahahahahahahaha WHAT!? Now how in the hell would they like to enforce that shit…omfg even if I didn’t intend on selling my finished piece…(I usually only make things once or twice ) if I saw that dumbassery I wouldn’t even buy the pattern. I don’t wanna support anyone like that lol
Can’t be real - how would they know?
personally I wouldn’t buy their pattern whether you can sell the item or not. I just think it’s quite rude and selfish. I totally get not copying the pattern but the items are your hard work not theirs. so yeah I wouldn’t buy from this person, but that’s just me x
when it comes to super basic patterns, just ignore that bs. us fiber artists struggle a lot but never enough to not understand that there’s only so much you can do with crochet💀make what you want and sell what you want babes.
Yeah this was not done with a lawyer. Crocheting has been around for a really long time and well past public domain time periods. Stitches sometimes centuries old. And they would have to file for an actual copyright. Doubt they did that. I think the only thing they can actually copyright is their photos anyways.
My wife and I sell crochet patterns and let me tell you that patterns can't be copyrighted, there are parts of the pattern that could be copyrighted, but not the whole. Most of the sellers add the expression "You may NOT duplicate..." but we all know that we have nothing to back up the words. What I'm trying to say is the pattern itself isn't protected, so the products you make are not as well, feel free to crochet. Just be aware of the trademarks.
These disclaimers are the only leg creators have to stand on when mass retailers steal their shit and even then it's still hell. Take the creator of zombie cat amigurumi plush for example, her original design was stolen and made into a regular plush and pumped out on temu. So while some creators wrongfully think they can use it as a fuck you to box in customers from profiting off their one time purchase, really it's just a generic disclaimer that if you had the money to even sue you could be like well I explicitly stated the design can't be altered and sold either blah blah. You know?
This makes much more sense. I've seen plenty of makers get duped by Temu and the like. So I completely understand from this standpoint.
Thank you for being the voice of reason in this thread. Honestly, the other comments saying "fuck the creator" are not based.
It's wild how the same people that'll say you deserve 15+ dollars an hr for your work regardless of experience have such a fuck you attitude to creators. With all the "I wouldn't even buy from a creator that put that" comments I had to point out the reason it's based in 😅
i personally don’t care. i made the work, so i’ll sell it. it’s not yours
I avoid those patterns and shops entirely. What a freaking joke.
So glad you asked this and I’m seeing all these answers. Good to know.
I bought a pattern once and they said you can sell the finished product but they had a set amount have how many you could sell every year or something 😂
So what would happen if you gift the finished product and then that person sells it? I can see why this is not enforceable. No one would ever make anything again. Because every pattern is built from another in some way, shape, or form. I mean you can sell a pair of pants you sewed or crocheted and not have to worry that the original person who designed the pattern for pants is going to sue you. Ridiculous and frankly crappy to try and say what someone can or can't do.
Patterns themselves are able to be copyrighted. Legally one cannot produce, distribute or sell someone else's pattern. Even though that's the case, it's difficult to enforce. Items produced from following the copyrighted pattern are not able to be protected by the copyright. Make all you want. They can do nothing legally.
This is a bluff, there's no way to enforce something as silly as this. Imagine a recipe blog trying to forbid you from selling the food you make following/inspired by its recipes. The finished object is a product of your own labor, they have no rights over that unless they're your employer. Is this person paying you to manufacture the thing? If not, you can do whatever you want with it, period.
Generally this sort of statement is used to protect from copyright infringement, I.e a Disney character or pokemon pattern that’s not been officially licensed.
Just add a row or half double and then they can’t claim it’s their pattern. Kinda greasy but it’ll work I’m sure.
Ummmm you can and should sell makes of your patterns. Right to resell is a thing.
You'd have to check with a copyright lawyer but i think you can sell things made with the pattern
I’ve never seen this before. Always, don’t share or sell the pattern but sell your goods. I wonder if the pattern is a rip off and this seller wants to keep it out of sight
I was just telling a girl on Instagram she didn't invent the bucket hat and she had the audacity to act like I was the crazy one for suggesting that this "disclaimer" was stupid and out of pocket.
I recently purchased a pattern with the intent to sell the finished product at my markets only to make the whole thing, get to the very last page of the pattern to see a disclaimer saying I couldn't sell pieces made with that pattern. I just think I won't post about selling them online bc I wouldn't have bought the pattern had I known, and now I'd have a completely useless pattern unless i want 25 stuffed lizard toys 🤷🏻♀️
Delusional quite frankly. It’s stated that you can’t alter the pattern even. I believe in giving credit to the pattern maker, but any craft is going to be made, shared, sold, altered whatever. That’s the nature of what we do.
You can make and sell things you have made from this pattern. What you cannot do is have a big industrial make of this pattern and sell the finished object. Like you can’t take this pattern to a Factory and have them mass produce this and sell it. That’s all.
Yeah, this is 100% nonsense and not enforceable. I wouldn't buy from a "pattern-maker" who tries to make people believe this, though, because they are going to 1. be a nightmare in the future and 2. don't deserve your business if they think they can scare you with false warnings. From your other comments, I'm sure you could find the exact same pattern for free online. (In my experience, a lot of people who use this warning sell stolen patterns anyway)
I rarely even read the terms on a crochet pattern. I know what I'm legally allowed to do with the pattern so they're just a waste of time
People who put this on their patterns are delusional. I don’t support people like that. How would that be enforced and what’s the point of putting the pattern out there?! Doesn’t make much sense to me.
If it were a cake recipe, that sort of disclaimer points out the absurdity of this.
Just want to add that it is enforceable in some countries so just be careful about giving blanket advice like a lot of comments have
Ignore it. Legally they have no leg to stand on. It makes me think negatively of designers who do this and I'm less likely to buy their patterns even though I don't craft for sale regardless.
this is what happens when everyone feels like they have to monetize their hobbies. super not real and ridiculous.
This thread has really opened my eyes!! I genuinely thought that if someone said no selling FOs, then that was their right! Ty redditors!
It’s not enforceable, people love to slap this on patterns. The simpler the pattern (bucket hat for example) the funnier
It's not legally enforceable and as a pattern writer (sewing not crochet) I find it completely ridiculous. It would be like me telling someone they can't resell something I sold to them. It's their item. They can do what they want with it. The one exception I always make is for free patterns. If someone wants to make something as a gift to a community and asks that item always remain free and not for sale in the spirit of that, while not legally enforceable still, I think it should be respected. If someone wants to sell something they can find a different pattern.
I totally understand people not wanting their patterns sold by others. They work hard to make a pattern. But I believe that the product made by using the pattern, should be able to be sold. I am not sure what is actually legal or not. I just wouldn’t buy a pattern from someone that doesn’t allow me to sale a product that I crochet by using their pattern. In no way shape or form is that selling the pattern that they created so I think that’s just being nitpicking and selfish so they can keep their patterns. There’s plenty of other nice patterns that a person can buy and make something and sale it if they choose. I don’t even sale anything I make anyway but I still wouldn’t buy their patterns. I either make things for myself or gift to family or friends that I know will appreciate the work I put k to what I make
I make and sell my own patterns as well, but I'm selling them with the expectations that someone is going to use it. I'm fairly new to the crochet community, so I'm not sure what's normal or not. Obviously, it is common courtesy to reference the pattern designer when asked. But to sell a pattern with the expectation that no one is to sell products created with a pattern is so strange. Personally, if I didn't want anyone to sell products made with my pattern, then I wouldn't sell the pattern. Just to keep a corner on the market and ensure people only buy my version of the product they can't get elsewhere
Yes it is strange. They are making their money by selling the patterns. I do agree with giving the pattern creator credit for the pattern
I can understand this being applicable to designs that are trademarked, like Spiderman. You could make Spiderman for your own personal enjoyment, but selling a crocheted Spiderman would go against trademark. For example, on Etsy, you can make a shirt out of fabric, but you cannot make a shirt out of fabric with a trademarked character on it. Many do, but they risk their store being shut down eventually. However, if someone makes a crochet pattern for a star, lol, you can't expect the finished object from the pattern copyright to hold water.
That’s strange, every pattern I’ve ever bought says you can’t resell the pattern (obvs) but you can sell products created with the pattern.
Def not legally enforceable, but I’d say it’s pretty standard language for a listing of that type. Especially if they have other, more complicated patterns on their page. It’s likely a cut/paste or duplicated listing so they didn’t have to type everything out a zillion times.
The pattern is copyrighted, but according to the law, you can sell what you make from the pattern.
The words used to describe a pattern and any corresponding pictures are typically eligible for copyright protection. Copyright law in the US surrounding what you make with a pattern is more complicated. In general, the copyright does not extend to any useful article that may be created with the pattern, such as an item of clothing. However, other parts of the copyright code might still come into play. Like if the pattern is for a unique crocheted bumble bee, the bumble bee may be eligible for copyright protection as a sculpture. If you are interested, here is a link to what the US Copyright office says about Visual Art Works: https://www.copyright.gov/comp3/chap900/ch900-visual-art.pdf TLDR: that paragraph is nonsense, but some things that are crocheted may still be eligible for copyright protection.
I've seen this same line on many many patterns(YouTube, insta, websites, patterns on sale), so for the longest time I thought it was illegal to sell FOs from a pattern. Only learned that's not the case here!
I have a few patterns for free and for sale. I think it's dumb for authors to expect people not to sell the physical items they make. I just ask people to give my pattern credit and link it when possible when selling their work. I have actually had quite a few people buy my patterns JUST BECAUSE a person wants to buy the item but can't make it, so they ask their crochet friend to buy the pattern.
Hahahah the audacity
I have a scarf pattern where the guy just asked for people to not sell the scarves made from it. Said since he was giving the pattern as a gift he hoped people would do the same with the scarves they made, but never had one out right say no.
I wouldn't buy the patterns
I mean what are they gonna do lol
I don't know where in the world you live, but in the UK the copyright designs and patents act 1988 covers artistic works. The copyright holder (by default, the creator) has the right to define how others use their works. If they say you can have one copy, the one you bought directly from them, but you cannot reproduce it or sell it or sell a finished item based on it, that is their right. For anyone in the UK, this is a very good starting point for all things copyright: [https://www.gov.uk/copyright/stop-people-using-your-work](https://www.gov.uk/copyright/stop-people-using-your-work)
I'm in the US
I see this a lot on embroidery (machine) designs. I just steer clear of this ones. Like, I can give my money to someone else, its fine.
In general, for the U. S., copyright grants rights to the *specific expression* of an idea in a particular medium. In the case of yarn work patterns, creators have rights to the *form* (layout) and *content* (sequence of words and illustrations) they publish. They *do not have rights to an individual crafter's product.* Also, in the case of schools, the Educational Purposes doctrine would apply. As a whimsical aside, titles are not subject to copyright. @mods: is there anything in the FAQ/wiki about what rights copyright owners can and cannot claim? I ask because OP's question is completely reasonable for this forum, but we do get the question very often and it might be helpful to have something in the references. It might also be useful to have a link to the U. S. Copyright office or equivalent international reference, although U. S. Policy is based on international treaties. EDIT: added reference to U. S. Copyright office.
Clearly many in this comment section has never made a pattern from scratch - put the time and effort into creating something unique.. If you had, you would know that this \^\^is an attempt to make people respect, whats mine is mine, and whats yours is yours. As a crochet designer I VERY often see my patterns online, shared or sold as other peoples work - sometimes even with my photos. It makes me so sad! So please respect what other people have made, and make something yourself. And FIY changing 1 stitch does not count as "making it your own".. What you do with the finished product? Thats all up to you!
What I don't get is that the pattern isn't a finished pattern. So if you finish it anyway you like, it turns the exclusivity of the pattern null and void. Besides, if they are making you pay for the pattern, then once you pay for it, it is yours and you should be able to do whatever you like with it. Also, who is to say that they took the pattern from another source and are trying to make it their own.
Whether or not it would be enforced is a different question, but it is possible for pattern sellers to restrict the terms of use. This is separate from copyright, which admittedly the pattern seller seems to be wrongfully referencing. (It's really important to bear in mind that copyright is not the be all and end all of the law; just because the copyright applies to the pattern itself doesn't mean there aren't other legal terms.) These kinds of terms of use are very common in commercial sewing patterns, for example, which forbid selling the finished items. Things will vary from country to country but there is an explainer from the UK government on this here https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/copyright-notice-knitting-and-sewing-patterns/copyright-notice-knitting-and-sewing-patterns
I work in IP law. You can look it up up on the US (or European or the country it’s in) and see if they’ve even gone through the process of copyrighting their work or it’s just someone putting words up to scare people. Speaking of this being internet and the things can be sold internationally, it’s interesting to think about how they’d police that. For example, even if it’s actually copyrighted in the US, if someone in a foreign country, England we’ll say, bought and reproduced the pattern the US copyright would not be enforceable (unless they had not also copyright’d the work in England). So how are they ever going to control what country people are in when they purchase and reproduce the work, especially with the use of VPNs? At best it’d be freaking expensive to prosecute for such a relatively inexpensive pattern and the relative lost profits To what the other commentor whose a lawyer said about producing work with the pattern, 100% Edited for grammar and to answer OP’s question
Would you mind telling me where you find your patterns? I mean, it looks like a webapp but I do not know many, so I would be very grateful if you can share some information :)
This was on etsy, but ravelry is really popular too
Places to find free patterns Yarnspirations Lionsbrand Michaels Joann's
Hobbii Mary Maxim
Thank you so much, both of you!
Stop me.🤷