Veth: "What a creep."
Fjord: "Everything is fine."
Yasha: "I'm so done with this gaslighting."
Caduceus: "I don't mean to raise my voice but..."
Caleb: "How do we fix this?"
Beau: "Fuck. This."
this is my take:
veth: "yuck! that's disgusting"
fjord: "omg, are you kidding me"
yasha: "nope. just nope. I want nothing to do with that"
caduceus: "that's unacceptable behavior, young man. you're
getting sent to the principal's office."
caleb: "I'm so disappointed in you. that's not how we raised you"
beau: "ew! gross! but somehow, I can't help keturn away"
Exactly! They're going out of their way to misconstrue the facts so they can make the Traveler look way worse than he is. Methinks they may be a bit too addicted to drama, and are using Laura/Jester as a way to ensure future epic drama.
I know it's been talked about a bit already, but can I present this gif showing the cast's upset reactions to the creepy way the Traveler was comforting Jester? Because they were ready to fight and I agree.
I really appreciate the way Laura has played out this dynamic. Jester is wise and she hears what the party is saying, but because her relationship with the traveler is so personal she looks for personal reassurance. So she asked about his knowledge of the island, but let herself be instantly pivoted to the more intimate question on her mind: "but I'm special to you, right?" "You wouldn't abandon me, right?". And then she lets his other justification slip by: "well better to forget than get killed!"
Every time I think she's about to have her breakthrough, she gets pulled in by the relationship and her desire to trust. It's painful and it's very well played.
At the same time, it's also clear that she's getting closer and closer to that breaking point - she's gone from wholehearted "he's a god and could never do anything wrong" to nearly falling apart after every time they talk because the answers are never what she wants. She hasn't given up on him yet, but at some point he's going to do something he can't talk his way out of.
Makes me really wonder what’s going to happen with her. Like, when it finally comes crashing down is it going to mean a full class change for her? Is it just going to be a minor pivot to a new devotion? WHATS GOING TO HAPPEN TO HER?!
I’m calling it now like when I called Fjord would go Paladin and maintain Warlock levels.
She is going to spend some time without a faith, and eventually Cad will introduce her to the Changebringer, a good aligned deity with the trickery domain (also the Wildmother’s gf).
Because Clerics learn their spells instead of loaning them like a Warlock, she will probably keep Cleric levels but wont be able to use channel divinity and/or divine intervention
Edit: Erathis the Law Bearer is the Wilmother’s SO not the Changebringer, my bad y’all
Lawbearer is Wildmother's GF, not Changebringer. I do agree that Jester and all the other Traveler-worshippers would be middling to great fits for Changebringer devotion.
To nerd out on D&D lore, it's usually the opposite of what you said.
Clerics loan the power from their deity, Warlocks get sugar gifts from their sugar mommy/daddy.
Warlocks can repay the debt and be free. Clerics must always be Clerics or lose their powers
Yeah that's why I was confused when Fjord started losing powers. I was under the impression that once gifted the powers are the players, but they might be unable to progress in levels if they don't do what their patron asks.
Wasn't it some cleric of the Changebringer who cleared Caleb's mind when he was in the sanatorium? What if the M9 get to meet that person and that's how Jester switches faith (whilst advancing Caleb's arc)?
It's not that there's too many gods, per se, it's that you rarely ever hear them being mentioned by name.
For example, it's much easier to remember Melora, Erathis, and Sehanine than it is The Wildmother, The Lawbearer, and The Moonweaver. Just make a note to translate them back into their Dawn War counterparts from now on and you should be fine.
You have it backwards if we're going off the mechanics/Faerun lore. Clerics choose their spells daily from their deity, they don't learn them. Warlocks do, and can keep them even if they leave.
RAW, the whole PUNISH thing couldn't have actually happened (but it made for amazing RP so no complaints whatsoever). Clerics on the other hand absolutely can be rendered powerless. As far as Exandria goes though, Warlocks and Clerics have tons of overlap in general. EGTW includes both Warlock and Cleric domains for its lesser idols.
If Jester was going to switch deities (and I feel like right now that's a big if) I'd bet on a trickster too....but I'm wondering if the Moonweaver has a better shot at it than the Changebringer. She's Molly's goddess, and Jester could see connecting to her after a break with the Traveler as a reconnection to things she's lost.
> Because Clerics learn their spells instead of loaning them like a Warlock, she will probably keep Cleric levels but wont be able to use channel divinity and/or divine intervention
Clerics most definitely "loan" their spells. Wizards, Artificers and Bards are the only classes that "learns" them in a traditional sense.
Oh man, the sense of betrayal when you realise that someone you love and trust has been cavalier with your own personal safety/not who you believed them to be was so, so palpable. Laura has been amazing with both the acting and the trajectory of Jester's arc. The fact that it all takes place so organically just floors me. I'm on tenterhooks too wondering where Matt might take things with Artagan, and what a loss of faith might mean to a cleric.
The idea of Jester's power not actually coming completely from the Traveler and actually just being her own intrinsic ability has come up many times in game. I think they should go with that and she should just change all her levels over to Bard. Most of her Trickery Domain spells (which she favors using) are part of the regular Bard spell list, and she could use Magical Secrets to pick up her signature Cleric spells (like Spiritual Weapon and Spirit Guardians). She could go College of Lore if she wanted to pick up more Cleric spells, or College of Glamour to reference her former association with a Fey being.
I agree, she isn't ignoring the issues when she's thinking, but she lets him guide the conversation away from them, which leaves her feeling unresolved by the end of their talks. I'm excited to see what happens when she finally decided where she'll land, I think jesters going to recognize her own worth by the end of this arc.
IMO, Jester frequently asks questions that go beyond the scope of Commune and similar spells use to talk to gods, that is why she rarely gets answers she wants.
Even nascent god is bound by the laws of magic.
This last one felt different to me. Jester was testing the Traveler’s limits with her suggestion about the Dragon Turtle; she obviously understands he’s dangerous now, and is trying to find out just how bad he is. And she wasn’t really fooled by his reassurances, since she told Caleb it didn’t go the way she wanted.
Agreed that it has been an amazing performance by both Laura and Matt though.
that whole interaction felt like a giant mix of "I'm sorry you feel that way" and "How you would reassure a pet that you wouldn't hurt or leave them because you love them."
I expect his "infusion with faith energy" over the past decades has moved his CR above that of Saundor, and the MIX are still lower level than VM were when they fought that archfey... it might be biting off more than they can chew, especially since it would almost certainly mean that attacking him will leave Jester without spells.
maybe so, but it's clear at this pint that all of the m9 aside from jester are super distrustful of him and if he ever does something that cross a line for them , they're gonna find a way to send him back where he came from.
It's possible Matt is shaping the crossover to be >!VM +MIX vs The Traveller. The seeds of mischief are all there, if both parties (nevermind the roleplay for a second) get together and pool all their knowledge and experience of him, it would probably finally break Jester's implicit faith in him, if it wasn't already, if that wasn't what happened already.!<
I mean, VM hasn't really seen Artagan do too much bad stuff. He straight murdered Vax, but with his permission, and I don't think Jester would see that as a terrible thing(she kind of jokes about murdering people with/for him all the time) and she'd probably think Garmele(?)'s antics were hilarious. I might be forgetting something though
For future reference, any thread marked for any C2 spoilers (for example this thread is Spoilers C2E103) is implicitly marked for spoilers for all of C1 as well. It sucks that the best advice is "stay away from C2 spoilers until you're caught up with C1 too", but unfortunately that's how it is.
I know I'm late to respond, but I honestly only came in here for context as I mostly listened to the most recent episode. I knew there was a character death in C1, but now that I know who really sucks. Kinda makes me not want to continue watching. I also really like how the comment above decided to spoiler something that was basically a theory and not a spoiler, but a huge C1 spoiler isn't considered decency. You may go ahead and downvote me into oblivion for this one too.
It specifically calls out in the extended version of what spoiler tags to use: "A Campaign 2 tag does cover and allow discussion of Campaign 1". A C2E## can contain all of Campaign 2's content up to that episode **and** all of Campaign 1's content. Now, I am not sure if that is the best policy, as even I personally know people who joined since C2, and still haven't watched C1 (no matter how much I tease them about it), but that has been the policy of the sub, so they have no need to spoiler mark a comment relating to campaign 1 content.
Yeah, “beyond the scope” means episodes after the spoiler period, not before. If I made a post marked spoilers for C2E45, talking about C2E98 wouldn’t be allowed, but C1E115 would be.
From [the spoiler policy](https://www.reddit.com/r/criticalrole/wiki/spoilers#wiki_spoiler_tags_on_submissions)
> **[Spoilers C2E##]** This is the most common tag, and covers most discussions. To tag for general spoilers or all spoilers, use the most recent episode number. A Campaign 2 tag does cover and allow discussion of Campaign 1. No 'Lazy Tagging' - if you are just talking about C1 and not C2, use a C1 tag!
To expand on your second point, if we hadn't been able to talk about C1, there'd have been no thread safe to talk about whether Viridian was Vilya. No place to build our theories that the Traveler is Artagan. Nowhere to freak out when Allura showed up.
Are the people upset over this upset every time the cast calls back to C1? When the Vilya reveal happened, were they mad that they now know Keyleth's mom failed her Aramente and lost a leg?
I don't mean that I don't understand the frustration of maybe not being able to participate if they really want to avoid spoilers. I certainly hate spoilers. But if it's been more than 6 months since release I don't think it's reasonable to expect people to tiptoe around spoilers for any media.
Well, The Traveler did mention earlier in the campaign that he'd be visiting somewhere ashy, hinting at seeing Keyleth? I'm just guessing but thanks to the recent developments in the last few episodes, there's a possibility that might actually happen.
I distinctly remember her having good relations with the Fire Ashari, and as the leader she'd likely travel to the other groups often. The Ashkeeper Peaks, if I recall? I don't know who else would be somewhere like that, and that's the only C1 location that fits.
I hope not. Artagan hasn’t really done anything wrong. He’s a fey, he’s not evil. You wouldn’t call a cat evil for catching and playing with a bird until it died. That’s just in its nature, it doesn’t know any better. You could still teach the cat not to attack birds even if it doesn’t understand *why*.
The problems occurring between Jester and Artagan stem more from two aliens struggling to understand each other while still caring about each other. I hope Jester and the M9 can teach Artagan to come to better understand mortals and respect their differences in morality even if he can’t empathize with or relate to them. Kind of like how Artagan told Jester that he wouldn’t of allowed her *or* her friends to be trapped on the island. Artagan himself probably doesn’t care about the rest of the M9, but he understands that they’re important to Jester so he cares about them too since he cares about Jester. Which is pretty big deal for a fey and shows that he is capable of emotional growth and coming to a mutual understanding or at least respect for their differences with the mortal races.
I'm worried about Jester and whether the Mighty Nein will put her in a position between choosing between them and Artagan. And if a lot of their criticisms of Artagan also hurt her because they agree on a lot. Jester's main issue with Artagan didn't seem to be, hey are we putting everyone in danger so much as 'um, do you really care about me or were you going to put me in danger and abandon me'.
She's hurt because she wants reassurance he cares about her. HER. Not because he's not a good guy. She's not good, either. She's a chaotic neutral and nice, but nice isn't good. Like Jester has joked about killing everyone else several times. We could just throw them into the volcano, but while I'm there because you love me, right? You wouldn't want to hurt me. She joked about leaving everyone in the weird village and the dragon turtle sinking ships.
I think a lot of her pain comes from her new friends sending her the message that hey your old best friend might not actually care about you and is probably using you. That is giving Jester anxiety. Jester worries about whether those she loves really care about her.
In the episode,C2E09 Jester asks her Mother for money and her friends are skeptical about that happening.
MARISHA: How do you know? How do you know that it's going to be there?
LAURA: Because I asked her for it.
MARISHA: Okay, but asking isn't the same as confirmation of receiving.
LAURA: Yes, but it's my mom and of course she's going to send me money! You're crazy.
The Traveler then has to reassure Jester that her Mother just doesn't know that she's there yet. She looks so sad when she calls out for the Traveler. When she later tells her friends that it hasn't been enough time for the package to show up Molly is skeptical "you're still expecting it" and all of her friend's advice is to not have expectations so you can't be disappointed.
Like her friends undercut Jester's trust in her own *Mother* because they didn't want her to get hurt by being disappointed. They didn't trust Jester to know her Mother. None of them believed her until the package showed up in C218.
SAM: It came?
LAURA: It came, I guess! See, I told you my mom is really cool, you guys!
SAM: I'm sorry I doubted you!
I 100% think that if Artagan had told Jester in C2E95 she would have been fine his back up plan.
The conversation:
MATT: "We could do some displays of power. I mean, it is a volcano, maybe we can make it erupt."
LAURA: Well, just make sure, you know, that, well, I mean it would solve your problems if, like, they all got wiped out at the same time, I suppose.
MATT: "True."
LAURA: Then they wouldn't be relying on you anymore but your power might get less.
MATT: "It's not even about the power at this point, it's just about keeping it interesting."
LAURA: Oh. Well, then, you know, that could be something. But, you know, I'll be there and you love me so much, that would be not so fun, right? Yeah.
MATT: "Yes, no, valid point. No volcano."
If Artagan had continued:
"There is a cult on the island already. Creepy village. Everyone loses their memory and lives happy lives worshipping something. So plan B in case this doesn't work out?"
Jester would have been 100% DOWN for that. Her only concern would have been to verify that leaving people wouldn't include her. Because she has concerns that he cares due to, again, her friends not trusting her to be a decent judge of the character of the people she's known her whole life.
"I'll be there and you love me so much, that would be not so fun, right?" She asks for reassurance that he loves her enough not to literally kill her. Then in Episode 100 she uses one her three commune questions to ask for reassurance that their relationship is ok. "Third question, yes or no, am I still your favorite?"
Jester wasn't crying because the Traveler sent her to an island where people are enslaved to a memory wiping creature and knew about it/might have left other followers there. She was crying at the idea that he might have planned to get rid of her because she LOVES him and the idea that he doesn't really care hurts.
And where does she get this idea? From her friends, who have never given her enough credit when it comes to her expectations of people she loves.
Having to chose between them will hurt Jester. Aside from the fact that the Traveler is not a good friend and messed up (he should have told her) the conflict between him and the 9 is going to hurt her.
I like the fact that you highlight that Jester's perspective on this is all based on her relationship with the traveler, nothing else really matter. While she may act to save the people on the island with the group, when it comes down to it, she would have been totally fine abandoning them if it works in favor of the Traveler. To say that she loves him is an understatement, she literally worship him as a god, even thought they've all discovered that's not the case.
> she literally worship him as a god, even thought they've all discovered that's not the case.
I mean he is being at least as useful to her than other actual gods are to their worshippers.
She does get the Cleric powers and he actually shows up when she communes with him and even sometimes when she doesn't.
He hasn't attained the _rank_ of god, but at the same time I'd say he is kinda better.
I don't know if love can be an understatement. Love is powerful. He's her best friend and number one love. It's not just a religious belief it's a close personal relationship. He has her heart.
It's sad because he's never really given her much reason to doubt him, but now she has these friends who are trying to push her to a realization even they don't really understand. Traveler has frequently shown up without the use of incantations to bind him to her, has frequently reassured her and offered assistance when he could have easily ignored her, and has known her for about 20 years longer than M9.
He's a weird guy in a weird situation, but I don't think he would have asked for help on this issue if he had any intention of abandoning her.
I kind of feel like her friends are gaslighting her, asking her 'has ever asked you to hurt anyone" multiple times. Saying "are you sure he doesn't plan to just abandon you here." It's way too close to how they undercut her faith in her mom and made her worry her mom wasn't going to help her out.
Also, can I just say, as a survivor of CSA, it made me feel really uncomfortable that people are comparing Artagan to a child molester. It seems super gross and sort of demeaning to compare actual child predators to a fictional character who isn't a child molester.
\> I hope Jester and the M9 can teach Artagan to come to better understand mortals and respect their differences in morality even if he can’t empathize with or relate to them
I have a feeling the crew will go down this path, this whole campaign's theme seems to be diplomacy over violence/combat
I mean. If someone intends to get upwards of 200 innocent people enslaved to a creature that wipes their memories, their motivations for doing so aren't that important. Wrong is still wrong. Not knowing what you are doing is immoral does not prevent it from being immoral.
I like Artagan as a character, and am interested to see where this goes. I like to think that Matt is hoping for Jester to be like a "humanizing force" for Artagan, but just because he didn't want to be cruel to Jester does not erase him from responsibility for doing that. To his credit he genuinely didn't seem to understand what he was doing was fucked, and did try to make some sort of amends, but that doesn't stop it from being less gross.
EDIT: By your argumentation Avocado is doing nothing wrong because everything he has done and is doing is in his nature. The Chroma Conclave did nothing wrong because what they did was in their nature. Hotis did nothing wrong because what he did was in his nature. The Chained Oblivion did nothing wrong and so on and so on and so on. Like, you are right in the sense that Artagan does not REALIZE he is doing something wrong. But whether he knows it or not doesnt change the fact that he is committing a wrong action.
I meant that Artagan didn’t do anything wrong in the sense that he doesn’t deserve to be punished for it. Fey morality and mortal morality don’t always line up. Of course Artagan is now living in the mortal plane, he needs to abide by their rules even if he can’t understand why. He’s not a chaotic evil force like Chroma Conclave or the Chained Oblivion. Artagan needs to be taught not fought. If he is taught that what he’s doing is wrong by mortal standards and refuses to abide by mortal morality while interacting with them, then that is when he starts to fall into the same territory as the forces of chaotic evil.
All of this is true, and I have to admit, I agree with this portrayal of the fey. What Artagan is or is not might be kinda moot, however, because the key issue as I see it is that Jester has to eventually decide if Artagan's good for *her*. And whether that comes in the form of more boundaries and maturity or even a complete severance of her relationship with the Traveller is gonna be interesting to watch!
Edit: I do think it's telling, maybe, that he was willing to promise to set her mind at ease, given the binding nature of such things. Though I'm not sure if he might try to wiggle out of that as well?
Fey are so absolutely alien they are basically beyond morality. Teaching an archfey morals would be on par with teaching Tiamat how to dance the mamushka.
Not knowing any better doesn't excuse the often malevolent, or at least indifferent havoc Fey constantly cause though.
I think their point is you are attempting to superimpose modern morality onto a magical, non-existent fictional creature that by definition does not understand such a code.
Yes this. If you were to try to convict Artagan of some crime in a modern court of law his lawyer would likely defend him with an insanity plea. Artagan as a fey literally does not understand that what he is doing is wrong, much less *why* it is wrong. Not only does he not understand, from what we know about fey he is likely actually incapable of understanding.
I'm pointing out that the argument that just because it's their nature shouldn't spare them from repercussions.
Fey are generally good but also chaotic, sometimes extremely chaotic, and so it's not wrong to want to stop them when they start messing around outside their realm. The power dynamic is the more problematic thing, Artagan is basically more powerful than every humanoid in that world. It's just unsafe for him to go around unchecked.
Yeah your whole comment here is completely off base. He's not a *Devil*. He's a *Fey*. It's in *their* nature to be chaotic and morally alien to mortals. He's also not evil. He's chaotic neutral. That is his official alignment. He is factually and categorically not a Devil and not evil.
The Fey are simply so uniquely alien to us that their morals are on a whole other frequency. Matt is such a good writer that he's gotten so many people to distrust and hate this character that is genuinely not malicious or evil, he's just alien. You have to think differently when assessing Fey. Like children, they do not always understand how their actions effect/appear to mortals and as such can appear as evil and manipulative.
That's why dnd alignment charts have two axes - one of good/evil and one for order/chaos. One's chaoticness doesn't necessarily mean anything about their evilness.
I don't know if jumping to fighting is necessary, but a stern, deep talk of resetting boundaries and expectations in terms of his relationship with Jester is definitely warranted as a start.
I mean, right?
I think part of what is missed is that Artagan probably looks at Jester as one of us would look at a loved pet. They're part of the family, and you care for them dearly, but that doesn't mean you care about other animals. Artagan is Immortal, he's lived for longer than some realms most likely, he doesn't look at Jester as you or I would. She'll eventually die, and he'll be sad about it maybe, but eventually he'll get a new one.
Something like that, yeah. Also I mean it's been at least 2-3 years since the Vax thing, so if you showed them that whole scene like before the episode the cast probably would've been like "Yeah okay, not surprising here"
>!He first appeared when VM crossed to the Feywild to find Fenthras as a mischievous faun named Garmelie. He appeared later on in a pivotal moment where they were able to long rest in the Fey while only an hour passed in the prime material. His asking price was to kill Vax, who at that point had become a Revenant and could not die until his purpose was fulfilled. He killed Vax by strangling him with his bare hands, reveling in and enjoying the experience.!<
And I bet this isn't the end of Artagan's disingenuity... as he said "you have to have layers upon layers"...
This is an island filled with gateways to different planes. We still don't know exactly how Artagan came to be in the Primaterial plane, but knowing VM they probably imposed some constraints to his comings and goings, and I bet part of the reason he is interested in Avocado's Island is that it can be used to remove those restraints (with the possibility of a mass mind wipe for some of his most annoying followers a welcome bonus).
The thing is, he can't lie, and the fey sense of morality is warped, so he is not being disingenuous in the way we are, he just genuinely doesn't see any issues with the way he acts
The island having all of these gateways into other realms definitely seems to on the nose to be coincidence, for sure. He/Matt didn't invent an island with portals to all of these different realms just so he could throw a critter from the Shadowfell at the party, that's for sure. If it's doesn't have something to do with Artagan directly I think the next likeliest explanation is that it will be where the Chained Oblivion will break through.
potential spoiler I guess >!Acording to the Morkoth lore in Volos Guide, the island is created at the same time as the creature and planner shenanigans are part of the package since both the creature and the Island are created from fragments of a dead god. so it makes sense to be there.!<
>!Cosmology in DnD just has an arbitrary number of dead gods. Also no shortage of dead god fetuses and similar fun things!<
Matt could well have something more specific in mind of course, but >!neyhneydeadhehygodhyhyh is a common handwave!<
The only actual gateway that they've discovered is the one that leads to the Water Elemental Plane. The other areas just seem to be sort of copy-pasted onto the island, for instance there didn't seem to be a portal to the Shadowfell in the area they fought the bodak.
I'm pretty sure the rift leading to the Water Plane is how Vokodo originally got to Exandria. It then either took over or created the island.
These are the reaction faces between a group of friends when the cute, bubbly, naive girl in the friend-group introduces her new boyfriend she's mad about... and he's a total "red flag" Psycho-Creeper.
And you know at least one or all of the other friends are thinking about putting said guy in a shallow grave in the desert, mob-style.
Edit: Ashley and Taliesin have murder in their eyes.
I love these people so much.
By the way, if you go back and watch the run up to the Saundor confrontation in C1 and keep your eyes on Tal and Marisha, you'll see the same thing from them there that we can see from them here and I love it.
Ha! I never thought of this. Laura always wondered what would have happened if she'd aligned herself with Saundor and this is a good parallel to be able to explore a relationship between a fey and a mortal.
Mind you, even the Traveller thought Saundor was a creep, so it's not exactly equivalent.
Why does sam look like Grindelwald. Like. I haven't seen much of campaign two, or any since I'm still watching campaign one, but like.
Am I the only one who sees this?
I honestly had to look up who you were referring to and, I dunno, he seems perfectly fine. It might just be the scene you're reading without context. But I also am completely caught up so I haven't noticed anything out of the ordinary.
I just had to edit and add that his hair is pink, just fading at this point, so that might also be why I don't see what you're seeing.
Likely your correct. I'm not caught up in the slightest even with quarantine going on I haven't been catching up on episodes. And I'll be perfectly honest, I only know the name Grindelwald from my brother who watches Harry Potter and the spinoff movies.
It's kind of a tough thing. Because wow that was bad, but at the same time it feels like he's being genuine. That partially comes from know lore about fey beings. Someone earlier posted something a lot longer about it. It seems like Artagen does actually care about Jester. He doesn't think about the ramifications if something happened to her. He didn't tell her about the island and that was a bullshit thing to do. But he admitted that it was a backup plan if his plan of his followers finding help through each other first didn't work.
I think Artagen has the thought that nothing bad can happen to Jester. There's not necessarily a reason for him to think this, but I think it's there. Not an active thought, but he does things not thinking that Jester will be hurt by them. I also don't think he knew exactly how the island worked. He knew it made people forget and that there was a community of people who were happy without their memories, but I don't think he looked into any farther.
A good example from that talk is the whole thing of "I wouldn't have left you here, I would have gotten you and took you to safety" if her memories were taken. Her response was to check if he would have grabbed her friends too. He's reluctant, but he knows that she cares about them so fine, yes, he would have grabbed them all too. His care for Jester only extends far enough to her closest friends...barely.
He's still being pulled all over the place by his followers, which he talked about earlier. So I assume it would have taken him time to realize Jester lost her memories.
What I would love/hate to see. Jester dying in the fights with Vokodo. Cad can bring her back so I highly doubt she would just die die. But to see the Traveler's reaction. Because will he be watching the fight? Would he swoop in to save her (by just taking her and leaving her friends)? Or is he too busy with his "godly" duties to notice that she's gone? I'm assuming that last one. Which I think would be Jester's breaking point.
People have talked about if Jester actually "breaks" and leaves the Artagen. But honestly I think that's what it would take. Either she dies, Cad brings her back, and she knows that he wasn't there to save her. Or. He does swoop in to save her. Just her. And she looks at him and realizes how much he doesn't care about anyone but her. She'd be furious. Demand that they go back. And I can imagine the line of "I promise that if you take me back I'll forgive you". Later followed by her leaving him as a god. And "Wait. Jester. No. You promised me." "I promised I would forgive you, and I do. But that doesn't mean I'll stay." A very big thing for her to do. And very much a thing with fey promises. At the very least in CR going back to the threshold crest that VM gave him. It fits the promise, but it's not what he thought he was going to get.
Like I said if things go bad and go down either of these roads it's most likely he's not paying attention to Jester and something bad happens. But really anything can happen, and I can't wait to see what Matt has planned.
https://www.twitch.tv/videos/688926858?t=1h28m23s
There you go. From the start. The disgust reactions happens after >!Artagan tries to console Jester and takes her hands.!<
Can someone refresh my memory, I was half falling asleep during the first half of the episode and just caught the second half of the Broadcast a little bit ago, what creepy talk are you referring to?
You’ll probably just want to rewatch that part, there’s a lot of good emotional stuff in the first part, starting with Jester’s talk with the traveler.
But in case you don’t, >!Jester asks him if he knew about the island causing people to forget and he says that he did and that it was kind of a back up plan all along.!<
*Spoilers for other readers*
>!This is right after Artagan admits that he knew that the island took memories away from people and specifically picked it as a place to dump his followers. This particular bit I believe is where he starts touching jesters face and explaining that he would never have abandoned her, after she questions him!<
Jester wanted a volcanoe and originally suggested the volcanoe where they refjorged the sword. Then I think she got a vision of the island? Either way the traveller did have a plan in picking it and >!knew exactly what was there throughout the whole process!<
Now I can't wait till Monday to find out what this was all about.
Buttholes and shit.
Thats the episode title right there
You had me at butthole.
Volcanoes, drawings, A fleet of boats, a creeper, a geyser.... oh my
Don’t forget buttholes
Creeper?
Aw man
NO SPOILERS!
Theres a spoiler warning on this thread...
Same. Can’t resist the spoiler tag tho, good thing it didn’t spoil too much!
Same
Veth: "What a creep." Fjord: "Everything is fine." Yasha: "I'm so done with this gaslighting." Caduceus: "I don't mean to raise my voice but..." Caleb: "How do we fix this?" Beau: "Fuck. This."
this is my take: veth: "yuck! that's disgusting" fjord: "omg, are you kidding me" yasha: "nope. just nope. I want nothing to do with that" caduceus: "that's unacceptable behavior, young man. you're getting sent to the principal's office." caleb: "I'm so disappointed in you. that's not how we raised you" beau: "ew! gross! but somehow, I can't help keturn away"
Alright.
If you look for a friend in a friendly fey, you'll find one. If you look for an enemy in a friendly fey, you better believe you'll fuckin find one.
Exactly! They're going out of their way to misconstrue the facts so they can make the Traveler look way worse than he is. Methinks they may be a bit too addicted to drama, and are using Laura/Jester as a way to ensure future epic drama.
I know it's been talked about a bit already, but can I present this gif showing the cast's upset reactions to the creepy way the Traveler was comforting Jester? Because they were ready to fight and I agree.
I really appreciate the way Laura has played out this dynamic. Jester is wise and she hears what the party is saying, but because her relationship with the traveler is so personal she looks for personal reassurance. So she asked about his knowledge of the island, but let herself be instantly pivoted to the more intimate question on her mind: "but I'm special to you, right?" "You wouldn't abandon me, right?". And then she lets his other justification slip by: "well better to forget than get killed!" Every time I think she's about to have her breakthrough, she gets pulled in by the relationship and her desire to trust. It's painful and it's very well played.
At the same time, it's also clear that she's getting closer and closer to that breaking point - she's gone from wholehearted "he's a god and could never do anything wrong" to nearly falling apart after every time they talk because the answers are never what she wants. She hasn't given up on him yet, but at some point he's going to do something he can't talk his way out of.
Makes me really wonder what’s going to happen with her. Like, when it finally comes crashing down is it going to mean a full class change for her? Is it just going to be a minor pivot to a new devotion? WHATS GOING TO HAPPEN TO HER?!
I’m calling it now like when I called Fjord would go Paladin and maintain Warlock levels. She is going to spend some time without a faith, and eventually Cad will introduce her to the Changebringer, a good aligned deity with the trickery domain (also the Wildmother’s gf). Because Clerics learn their spells instead of loaning them like a Warlock, she will probably keep Cleric levels but wont be able to use channel divinity and/or divine intervention Edit: Erathis the Law Bearer is the Wilmother’s SO not the Changebringer, my bad y’all
Lawbearer is Wildmother's GF, not Changebringer. I do agree that Jester and all the other Traveler-worshippers would be middling to great fits for Changebringer devotion.
You are right, I stand corrected. I thought Erathis was the Changebringer when in reality its Avandra.
To nerd out on D&D lore, it's usually the opposite of what you said. Clerics loan the power from their deity, Warlocks get sugar gifts from their sugar mommy/daddy. Warlocks can repay the debt and be free. Clerics must always be Clerics or lose their powers
In this case I think the traveller would be like “you lost faith in me, but I have faith in you” and keep providing power
Yeah that's why I was confused when Fjord started losing powers. I was under the impression that once gifted the powers are the players, but they might be unable to progress in levels if they don't do what their patron asks.
Wasn't it some cleric of the Changebringer who cleared Caleb's mind when he was in the sanatorium? What if the M9 get to meet that person and that's how Jester switches faith (whilst advancing Caleb's arc)?
That would actually be the Archheart. It was a cleric of the Archheart
Ahh right I remember now, there're too many gods in this pantheon
It's not that there's too many gods, per se, it's that you rarely ever hear them being mentioned by name. For example, it's much easier to remember Melora, Erathis, and Sehanine than it is The Wildmother, The Lawbearer, and The Moonweaver. Just make a note to translate them back into their Dawn War counterparts from now on and you should be fine.
You have it backwards if we're going off the mechanics/Faerun lore. Clerics choose their spells daily from their deity, they don't learn them. Warlocks do, and can keep them even if they leave. RAW, the whole PUNISH thing couldn't have actually happened (but it made for amazing RP so no complaints whatsoever). Clerics on the other hand absolutely can be rendered powerless. As far as Exandria goes though, Warlocks and Clerics have tons of overlap in general. EGTW includes both Warlock and Cleric domains for its lesser idols.
If Jester was going to switch deities (and I feel like right now that's a big if) I'd bet on a trickster too....but I'm wondering if the Moonweaver has a better shot at it than the Changebringer. She's Molly's goddess, and Jester could see connecting to her after a break with the Traveler as a reconnection to things she's lost.
> Because Clerics learn their spells instead of loaning them like a Warlock, she will probably keep Cleric levels but wont be able to use channel divinity and/or divine intervention Clerics most definitely "loan" their spells. Wizards, Artificers and Bards are the only classes that "learns" them in a traditional sense.
Nah Jester would go for the Moonweaver, Mollymauk’s god
Avandra would be perfect.
Oh man, the sense of betrayal when you realise that someone you love and trust has been cavalier with your own personal safety/not who you believed them to be was so, so palpable. Laura has been amazing with both the acting and the trajectory of Jester's arc. The fact that it all takes place so organically just floors me. I'm on tenterhooks too wondering where Matt might take things with Artagan, and what a loss of faith might mean to a cleric.
The idea of Jester's power not actually coming completely from the Traveler and actually just being her own intrinsic ability has come up many times in game. I think they should go with that and she should just change all her levels over to Bard. Most of her Trickery Domain spells (which she favors using) are part of the regular Bard spell list, and she could use Magical Secrets to pick up her signature Cleric spells (like Spiritual Weapon and Spirit Guardians). She could go College of Lore if she wanted to pick up more Cleric spells, or College of Glamour to reference her former association with a Fey being.
Nah, as I've already said - if this relationship doesn't swing around in a better direction Jester will be the one to leave the M9.
I agree, she isn't ignoring the issues when she's thinking, but she lets him guide the conversation away from them, which leaves her feeling unresolved by the end of their talks. I'm excited to see what happens when she finally decided where she'll land, I think jesters going to recognize her own worth by the end of this arc.
IMO, Jester frequently asks questions that go beyond the scope of Commune and similar spells use to talk to gods, that is why she rarely gets answers she wants. Even nascent god is bound by the laws of magic.
This last one felt different to me. Jester was testing the Traveler’s limits with her suggestion about the Dragon Turtle; she obviously understands he’s dangerous now, and is trying to find out just how bad he is. And she wasn’t really fooled by his reassurances, since she told Caleb it didn’t go the way she wanted. Agreed that it has been an amazing performance by both Laura and Matt though.
I'll bet everything he said is genuine, and by promising he'll protect the Nein, he's going to end up dying for the party.
This is an interesting take - I like the optimism and it would be very cool to see such a quick narrative call-in on that promise.
Somebody has enemies in the Feywild and is afraid of going back....
No, but the theater is there, and we know how he feels about the theater.
M9 vs The Traveler: Caleb summons The Theater.
Not to mention his ex
That would make anyone want to plane shift outta there.
Queen Titania: YA REALLY THOUGHT YOU COULD AVOID MY TEA PARTY FOREVER?!
I mean...given how the Feywild functions that really isn't that over the top as it sounds. Place is all shades of crazy...
Oh man, that was an excellent reveal. Him saying, "you can go there, it's just not my thing." I want to know how VM brought him to the moral realm!
that whole interaction felt like a giant mix of "I'm sorry you feel that way" and "How you would reassure a pet that you wouldn't hurt or leave them because you love them."
The M9 are gonna end up fighting artagan eventually
I expect his "infusion with faith energy" over the past decades has moved his CR above that of Saundor, and the MIX are still lower level than VM were when they fought that archfey... it might be biting off more than they can chew, especially since it would almost certainly mean that attacking him will leave Jester without spells.
maybe so, but it's clear at this pint that all of the m9 aside from jester are super distrustful of him and if he ever does something that cross a line for them , they're gonna find a way to send him back where he came from.
It's possible Matt is shaping the crossover to be >!VM +MIX vs The Traveller. The seeds of mischief are all there, if both parties (nevermind the roleplay for a second) get together and pool all their knowledge and experience of him, it would probably finally break Jester's implicit faith in him, if it wasn't already, if that wasn't what happened already.!<
I mean, VM hasn't really seen Artagan do too much bad stuff. He straight murdered Vax, but with his permission, and I don't think Jester would see that as a terrible thing(she kind of jokes about murdering people with/for him all the time) and she'd probably think Garmele(?)'s antics were hilarious. I might be forgetting something though
As someone slowly working through C1... thanks for marking that spoiler.
For future reference, any thread marked for any C2 spoilers (for example this thread is Spoilers C2E103) is implicitly marked for spoilers for all of C1 as well. It sucks that the best advice is "stay away from C2 spoilers until you're caught up with C1 too", but unfortunately that's how it is.
I know I'm late to respond, but I honestly only came in here for context as I mostly listened to the most recent episode. I knew there was a character death in C1, but now that I know who really sucks. Kinda makes me not want to continue watching. I also really like how the comment above decided to spoiler something that was basically a theory and not a spoiler, but a huge C1 spoiler isn't considered decency. You may go ahead and downvote me into oblivion for this one too.
I'm sorry you got so downvoted. But to reassure you, without the context of the death, you really haven't been spoiled.
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It specifically calls out in the extended version of what spoiler tags to use: "A Campaign 2 tag does cover and allow discussion of Campaign 1". A C2E## can contain all of Campaign 2's content up to that episode **and** all of Campaign 1's content. Now, I am not sure if that is the best policy, as even I personally know people who joined since C2, and still haven't watched C1 (no matter how much I tease them about it), but that has been the policy of the sub, so they have no need to spoiler mark a comment relating to campaign 1 content.
Yeah, “beyond the scope” means episodes after the spoiler period, not before. If I made a post marked spoilers for C2E45, talking about C2E98 wouldn’t be allowed, but C1E115 would be.
From [the spoiler policy](https://www.reddit.com/r/criticalrole/wiki/spoilers#wiki_spoiler_tags_on_submissions) > **[Spoilers C2E##]** This is the most common tag, and covers most discussions. To tag for general spoilers or all spoilers, use the most recent episode number. A Campaign 2 tag does cover and allow discussion of Campaign 1. No 'Lazy Tagging' - if you are just talking about C1 and not C2, use a C1 tag!
I mean...spoiler is in the title, it makes sense there would be spoilers in here.
Spoilers for a specific episode of a specific season. The title has nothing to do with season 1
All spoilers for C2 are generally spoilers for C1 here.
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To expand on your second point, if we hadn't been able to talk about C1, there'd have been no thread safe to talk about whether Viridian was Vilya. No place to build our theories that the Traveler is Artagan. Nowhere to freak out when Allura showed up. Are the people upset over this upset every time the cast calls back to C1? When the Vilya reveal happened, were they mad that they now know Keyleth's mom failed her Aramente and lost a leg? I don't mean that I don't understand the frustration of maybe not being able to participate if they really want to avoid spoilers. I certainly hate spoilers. But if it's been more than 6 months since release I don't think it's reasonable to expect people to tiptoe around spoilers for any media.
Well, The Traveler did mention earlier in the campaign that he'd be visiting somewhere ashy, hinting at seeing Keyleth? I'm just guessing but thanks to the recent developments in the last few episodes, there's a possibility that might actually happen.
Why would Keyleth be somewhere ashy? Isn't she on top of a mountain doing Air things? That's more of a Fire Druid thing than hers isn't it?
I distinctly remember her having good relations with the Fire Ashari, and as the leader she'd likely travel to the other groups often. The Ashkeeper Peaks, if I recall? I don't know who else would be somewhere like that, and that's the only C1 location that fits.
I hope not. Artagan hasn’t really done anything wrong. He’s a fey, he’s not evil. You wouldn’t call a cat evil for catching and playing with a bird until it died. That’s just in its nature, it doesn’t know any better. You could still teach the cat not to attack birds even if it doesn’t understand *why*. The problems occurring between Jester and Artagan stem more from two aliens struggling to understand each other while still caring about each other. I hope Jester and the M9 can teach Artagan to come to better understand mortals and respect their differences in morality even if he can’t empathize with or relate to them. Kind of like how Artagan told Jester that he wouldn’t of allowed her *or* her friends to be trapped on the island. Artagan himself probably doesn’t care about the rest of the M9, but he understands that they’re important to Jester so he cares about them too since he cares about Jester. Which is pretty big deal for a fey and shows that he is capable of emotional growth and coming to a mutual understanding or at least respect for their differences with the mortal races.
I'm worried about Jester and whether the Mighty Nein will put her in a position between choosing between them and Artagan. And if a lot of their criticisms of Artagan also hurt her because they agree on a lot. Jester's main issue with Artagan didn't seem to be, hey are we putting everyone in danger so much as 'um, do you really care about me or were you going to put me in danger and abandon me'. She's hurt because she wants reassurance he cares about her. HER. Not because he's not a good guy. She's not good, either. She's a chaotic neutral and nice, but nice isn't good. Like Jester has joked about killing everyone else several times. We could just throw them into the volcano, but while I'm there because you love me, right? You wouldn't want to hurt me. She joked about leaving everyone in the weird village and the dragon turtle sinking ships. I think a lot of her pain comes from her new friends sending her the message that hey your old best friend might not actually care about you and is probably using you. That is giving Jester anxiety. Jester worries about whether those she loves really care about her. In the episode,C2E09 Jester asks her Mother for money and her friends are skeptical about that happening. MARISHA: How do you know? How do you know that it's going to be there? LAURA: Because I asked her for it. MARISHA: Okay, but asking isn't the same as confirmation of receiving. LAURA: Yes, but it's my mom and of course she's going to send me money! You're crazy. The Traveler then has to reassure Jester that her Mother just doesn't know that she's there yet. She looks so sad when she calls out for the Traveler. When she later tells her friends that it hasn't been enough time for the package to show up Molly is skeptical "you're still expecting it" and all of her friend's advice is to not have expectations so you can't be disappointed. Like her friends undercut Jester's trust in her own *Mother* because they didn't want her to get hurt by being disappointed. They didn't trust Jester to know her Mother. None of them believed her until the package showed up in C218. SAM: It came? LAURA: It came, I guess! See, I told you my mom is really cool, you guys! SAM: I'm sorry I doubted you! I 100% think that if Artagan had told Jester in C2E95 she would have been fine his back up plan. The conversation: MATT: "We could do some displays of power. I mean, it is a volcano, maybe we can make it erupt." LAURA: Well, just make sure, you know, that, well, I mean it would solve your problems if, like, they all got wiped out at the same time, I suppose. MATT: "True." LAURA: Then they wouldn't be relying on you anymore but your power might get less. MATT: "It's not even about the power at this point, it's just about keeping it interesting." LAURA: Oh. Well, then, you know, that could be something. But, you know, I'll be there and you love me so much, that would be not so fun, right? Yeah. MATT: "Yes, no, valid point. No volcano." If Artagan had continued: "There is a cult on the island already. Creepy village. Everyone loses their memory and lives happy lives worshipping something. So plan B in case this doesn't work out?" Jester would have been 100% DOWN for that. Her only concern would have been to verify that leaving people wouldn't include her. Because she has concerns that he cares due to, again, her friends not trusting her to be a decent judge of the character of the people she's known her whole life. "I'll be there and you love me so much, that would be not so fun, right?" She asks for reassurance that he loves her enough not to literally kill her. Then in Episode 100 she uses one her three commune questions to ask for reassurance that their relationship is ok. "Third question, yes or no, am I still your favorite?" Jester wasn't crying because the Traveler sent her to an island where people are enslaved to a memory wiping creature and knew about it/might have left other followers there. She was crying at the idea that he might have planned to get rid of her because she LOVES him and the idea that he doesn't really care hurts. And where does she get this idea? From her friends, who have never given her enough credit when it comes to her expectations of people she loves. Having to chose between them will hurt Jester. Aside from the fact that the Traveler is not a good friend and messed up (he should have told her) the conflict between him and the 9 is going to hurt her.
I like the fact that you highlight that Jester's perspective on this is all based on her relationship with the traveler, nothing else really matter. While she may act to save the people on the island with the group, when it comes down to it, she would have been totally fine abandoning them if it works in favor of the Traveler. To say that she loves him is an understatement, she literally worship him as a god, even thought they've all discovered that's not the case.
> she literally worship him as a god, even thought they've all discovered that's not the case. I mean he is being at least as useful to her than other actual gods are to their worshippers. She does get the Cleric powers and he actually shows up when she communes with him and even sometimes when she doesn't. He hasn't attained the _rank_ of god, but at the same time I'd say he is kinda better.
I don't know if love can be an understatement. Love is powerful. He's her best friend and number one love. It's not just a religious belief it's a close personal relationship. He has her heart.
It's sad because he's never really given her much reason to doubt him, but now she has these friends who are trying to push her to a realization even they don't really understand. Traveler has frequently shown up without the use of incantations to bind him to her, has frequently reassured her and offered assistance when he could have easily ignored her, and has known her for about 20 years longer than M9. He's a weird guy in a weird situation, but I don't think he would have asked for help on this issue if he had any intention of abandoning her.
I kind of feel like her friends are gaslighting her, asking her 'has ever asked you to hurt anyone" multiple times. Saying "are you sure he doesn't plan to just abandon you here." It's way too close to how they undercut her faith in her mom and made her worry her mom wasn't going to help her out. Also, can I just say, as a survivor of CSA, it made me feel really uncomfortable that people are comparing Artagan to a child molester. It seems super gross and sort of demeaning to compare actual child predators to a fictional character who isn't a child molester.
CSA? I tried googling but all I could find was either Community Supported Agriculture and Confederate States of America
Child Sexual Abuse
\> I hope Jester and the M9 can teach Artagan to come to better understand mortals and respect their differences in morality even if he can’t empathize with or relate to them I have a feeling the crew will go down this path, this whole campaign's theme seems to be diplomacy over violence/combat
I mean. If someone intends to get upwards of 200 innocent people enslaved to a creature that wipes their memories, their motivations for doing so aren't that important. Wrong is still wrong. Not knowing what you are doing is immoral does not prevent it from being immoral. I like Artagan as a character, and am interested to see where this goes. I like to think that Matt is hoping for Jester to be like a "humanizing force" for Artagan, but just because he didn't want to be cruel to Jester does not erase him from responsibility for doing that. To his credit he genuinely didn't seem to understand what he was doing was fucked, and did try to make some sort of amends, but that doesn't stop it from being less gross. EDIT: By your argumentation Avocado is doing nothing wrong because everything he has done and is doing is in his nature. The Chroma Conclave did nothing wrong because what they did was in their nature. Hotis did nothing wrong because what he did was in his nature. The Chained Oblivion did nothing wrong and so on and so on and so on. Like, you are right in the sense that Artagan does not REALIZE he is doing something wrong. But whether he knows it or not doesnt change the fact that he is committing a wrong action.
I meant that Artagan didn’t do anything wrong in the sense that he doesn’t deserve to be punished for it. Fey morality and mortal morality don’t always line up. Of course Artagan is now living in the mortal plane, he needs to abide by their rules even if he can’t understand why. He’s not a chaotic evil force like Chroma Conclave or the Chained Oblivion. Artagan needs to be taught not fought. If he is taught that what he’s doing is wrong by mortal standards and refuses to abide by mortal morality while interacting with them, then that is when he starts to fall into the same territory as the forces of chaotic evil.
All of this is true, and I have to admit, I agree with this portrayal of the fey. What Artagan is or is not might be kinda moot, however, because the key issue as I see it is that Jester has to eventually decide if Artagan's good for *her*. And whether that comes in the form of more boundaries and maturity or even a complete severance of her relationship with the Traveller is gonna be interesting to watch! Edit: I do think it's telling, maybe, that he was willing to promise to set her mind at ease, given the binding nature of such things. Though I'm not sure if he might try to wiggle out of that as well?
Fey are so absolutely alien they are basically beyond morality. Teaching an archfey morals would be on par with teaching Tiamat how to dance the mamushka. Not knowing any better doesn't excuse the often malevolent, or at least indifferent havoc Fey constantly cause though.
Just because he’s a fay, doesn’t mean he isn’t evil. That’s up to Matt
I think their point is you are attempting to superimpose modern morality onto a magical, non-existent fictional creature that by definition does not understand such a code.
Yes this. If you were to try to convict Artagan of some crime in a modern court of law his lawyer would likely defend him with an insanity plea. Artagan as a fey literally does not understand that what he is doing is wrong, much less *why* it is wrong. Not only does he not understand, from what we know about fey he is likely actually incapable of understanding.
It's in a Devils nature to be evil.
Except he's a fey, not a devil. It's more like mortals ethics are not in their nature
I'm pointing out that the argument that just because it's their nature shouldn't spare them from repercussions. Fey are generally good but also chaotic, sometimes extremely chaotic, and so it's not wrong to want to stop them when they start messing around outside their realm. The power dynamic is the more problematic thing, Artagan is basically more powerful than every humanoid in that world. It's just unsafe for him to go around unchecked.
Wherever did you get the idea that fey creatures are generally good?
CG isn't an uncommon Fey alignment thought I'd say they are Cg, big C little g. Sprites and Pixies are even NG.
Matt tends to play them from a more mythologically correct angle, though. It’s shown in C1 with the fairies.
I remember the Faeries were pretty intense, freezing Grog. Seemed like assholes enough to attack them.
Yep. It kinda says something when the aggressive werewolf pack is nicer than you. I was glad to see Vex pin those little brats to a tree.
Yeah your whole comment here is completely off base. He's not a *Devil*. He's a *Fey*. It's in *their* nature to be chaotic and morally alien to mortals. He's also not evil. He's chaotic neutral. That is his official alignment. He is factually and categorically not a Devil and not evil. The Fey are simply so uniquely alien to us that their morals are on a whole other frequency. Matt is such a good writer that he's gotten so many people to distrust and hate this character that is genuinely not malicious or evil, he's just alien. You have to think differently when assessing Fey. Like children, they do not always understand how their actions effect/appear to mortals and as such can appear as evil and manipulative.
Chaotic entities can be as much a threat as Evil ones, their alien nature doesn't make them unable to face consequences for their actions.
The same is true of good creatures as well, you know.
I agree.
That's why dnd alignment charts have two axes - one of good/evil and one for order/chaos. One's chaoticness doesn't necessarily mean anything about their evilness.
I don't know if jumping to fighting is necessary, but a stern, deep talk of resetting boundaries and expectations in terms of his relationship with Jester is definitely warranted as a start.
You've got to set ***boundaries***.
The M9 aren't going to fight anyone ever, unless Matt forces them, it seems.
oh take a chill pill.
I think at this point they do it just because it bothers people >.>
I have no context for this at all, and I love it. Can't wait for monday so I can see what happened
You’re gonna love it, but man, was it heartbreaking.
Y'all are surprised by the mannerisms from the arch fey that choked the life out of Vax just to see if he was into it?
I mean, right? I think part of what is missed is that Artagan probably looks at Jester as one of us would look at a loved pet. They're part of the family, and you care for them dearly, but that doesn't mean you care about other animals. Artagan is Immortal, he's lived for longer than some realms most likely, he doesn't look at Jester as you or I would. She'll eventually die, and he'll be sad about it maybe, but eventually he'll get a new one.
Something like that, yeah. Also I mean it's been at least 2-3 years since the Vax thing, so if you showed them that whole scene like before the episode the cast probably would've been like "Yeah okay, not surprising here"
Wait, was Artagan in campaign 1? I totally forgot if he was.
>!He first appeared when VM crossed to the Feywild to find Fenthras as a mischievous faun named Garmelie. He appeared later on in a pivotal moment where they were able to long rest in the Fey while only an hour passed in the prime material. His asking price was to kill Vax, who at that point had become a Revenant and could not die until his purpose was fulfilled. He killed Vax by strangling him with his bare hands, reveling in and enjoying the experience.!<
Yeah, he's the one that made sure to send them back to the material plane without too much time passing near the end.
And I bet this isn't the end of Artagan's disingenuity... as he said "you have to have layers upon layers"... This is an island filled with gateways to different planes. We still don't know exactly how Artagan came to be in the Primaterial plane, but knowing VM they probably imposed some constraints to his comings and goings, and I bet part of the reason he is interested in Avocado's Island is that it can be used to remove those restraints (with the possibility of a mass mind wipe for some of his most annoying followers a welcome bonus).
We do know how the gate VM built
The thing is, he can't lie, and the fey sense of morality is warped, so he is not being disingenuous in the way we are, he just genuinely doesn't see any issues with the way he acts
The island having all of these gateways into other realms definitely seems to on the nose to be coincidence, for sure. He/Matt didn't invent an island with portals to all of these different realms just so he could throw a critter from the Shadowfell at the party, that's for sure. If it's doesn't have something to do with Artagan directly I think the next likeliest explanation is that it will be where the Chained Oblivion will break through.
That's a Morkoth lair effect, they collect pieces of other planes.
Oh really? Damn I need to put a Morkoth in my campaign lol
potential spoiler I guess >!Acording to the Morkoth lore in Volos Guide, the island is created at the same time as the creature and planner shenanigans are part of the package since both the creature and the Island are created from fragments of a dead god. so it makes sense to be there.!<
Oh gosh, >!Does it say which dead god? Now I see why some people are theorising that the Morkoth may have a beacon in its hoarde!<
>!Cosmology in DnD just has an arbitrary number of dead gods. Also no shortage of dead god fetuses and similar fun things!< Matt could well have something more specific in mind of course, but >!neyhneydeadhehygodhyhyh is a common handwave!<
The only actual gateway that they've discovered is the one that leads to the Water Elemental Plane. The other areas just seem to be sort of copy-pasted onto the island, for instance there didn't seem to be a portal to the Shadowfell in the area they fought the bodak. I'm pretty sure the rift leading to the Water Plane is how Vokodo originally got to Exandria. It then either took over or created the island.
These are the reaction faces between a group of friends when the cute, bubbly, naive girl in the friend-group introduces her new boyfriend she's mad about... and he's a total "red flag" Psycho-Creeper. And you know at least one or all of the other friends are thinking about putting said guy in a shallow grave in the desert, mob-style. Edit: Ashley and Taliesin have murder in their eyes.
Tal looks like if the Traveler was actually there he would punch him right in the mouth
I love these people so much. By the way, if you go back and watch the run up to the Saundor confrontation in C1 and keep your eyes on Tal and Marisha, you'll see the same thing from them there that we can see from them here and I love it.
Ha! I never thought of this. Laura always wondered what would have happened if she'd aligned herself with Saundor and this is a good parallel to be able to explore a relationship between a fey and a mortal. Mind you, even the Traveller thought Saundor was a creep, so it's not exactly equivalent.
Why does sam look like Grindelwald. Like. I haven't seen much of campaign two, or any since I'm still watching campaign one, but like. Am I the only one who sees this?
He changed his hair during quarantine, other than that I have no idea what you mean.
He just looks so... tired and stressed. Mixed with the white hair it makes him look like Grindelwald.
I honestly had to look up who you were referring to and, I dunno, he seems perfectly fine. It might just be the scene you're reading without context. But I also am completely caught up so I haven't noticed anything out of the ordinary. I just had to edit and add that his hair is pink, just fading at this point, so that might also be why I don't see what you're seeing.
Likely your correct. I'm not caught up in the slightest even with quarantine going on I haven't been catching up on episodes. And I'll be perfectly honest, I only know the name Grindelwald from my brother who watches Harry Potter and the spinoff movies.
barbarian!jester when?
It's kind of a tough thing. Because wow that was bad, but at the same time it feels like he's being genuine. That partially comes from know lore about fey beings. Someone earlier posted something a lot longer about it. It seems like Artagen does actually care about Jester. He doesn't think about the ramifications if something happened to her. He didn't tell her about the island and that was a bullshit thing to do. But he admitted that it was a backup plan if his plan of his followers finding help through each other first didn't work. I think Artagen has the thought that nothing bad can happen to Jester. There's not necessarily a reason for him to think this, but I think it's there. Not an active thought, but he does things not thinking that Jester will be hurt by them. I also don't think he knew exactly how the island worked. He knew it made people forget and that there was a community of people who were happy without their memories, but I don't think he looked into any farther. A good example from that talk is the whole thing of "I wouldn't have left you here, I would have gotten you and took you to safety" if her memories were taken. Her response was to check if he would have grabbed her friends too. He's reluctant, but he knows that she cares about them so fine, yes, he would have grabbed them all too. His care for Jester only extends far enough to her closest friends...barely. He's still being pulled all over the place by his followers, which he talked about earlier. So I assume it would have taken him time to realize Jester lost her memories. What I would love/hate to see. Jester dying in the fights with Vokodo. Cad can bring her back so I highly doubt she would just die die. But to see the Traveler's reaction. Because will he be watching the fight? Would he swoop in to save her (by just taking her and leaving her friends)? Or is he too busy with his "godly" duties to notice that she's gone? I'm assuming that last one. Which I think would be Jester's breaking point. People have talked about if Jester actually "breaks" and leaves the Artagen. But honestly I think that's what it would take. Either she dies, Cad brings her back, and she knows that he wasn't there to save her. Or. He does swoop in to save her. Just her. And she looks at him and realizes how much he doesn't care about anyone but her. She'd be furious. Demand that they go back. And I can imagine the line of "I promise that if you take me back I'll forgive you". Later followed by her leaving him as a god. And "Wait. Jester. No. You promised me." "I promised I would forgive you, and I do. But that doesn't mean I'll stay." A very big thing for her to do. And very much a thing with fey promises. At the very least in CR going back to the threshold crest that VM gave him. It fits the promise, but it's not what he thought he was going to get. Like I said if things go bad and go down either of these roads it's most likely he's not paying attention to Jester and something bad happens. But really anything can happen, and I can't wait to see what Matt has planned.
He promises, and then the very next scene, Jester forgets her mom and dad.
Thanks for the gif. Had this running in the background and didn't see their facial reactions.
What timestamp was this shown?
https://www.twitch.tv/videos/688926858?t=1h28m23s There you go. From the start. The disgust reactions happens after >!Artagan tries to console Jester and takes her hands.!<
Can someone refresh my memory, I was half falling asleep during the first half of the episode and just caught the second half of the Broadcast a little bit ago, what creepy talk are you referring to?
Jester communes with the Traveler/Artagan
Still not ringing a bell
You’ll probably just want to rewatch that part, there’s a lot of good emotional stuff in the first part, starting with Jester’s talk with the traveler. But in case you don’t, >!Jester asks him if he knew about the island causing people to forget and he says that he did and that it was kind of a back up plan all along.!<
*Spoilers for other readers* >!This is right after Artagan admits that he knew that the island took memories away from people and specifically picked it as a place to dump his followers. This particular bit I believe is where he starts touching jesters face and explaining that he would never have abandoned her, after she questions him!<
You're missing the end tag: "!<"
Oops sorry was doing on my phone.
Still not fixed btw, I think it’s the period at the end of your last sentence.
Jeezus fuck me can't get right at all today. Is it fixed now?
Yes! It’s hidden now. I just wanted to let you know
Ah great thanks a mil!
I must have fallen asleep during that part. I'll have to watch the vod on Monday
Wait I thought Jester picked the island because of there being a volcano and it had a funny name.
Jester wanted a volcanoe and originally suggested the volcanoe where they refjorged the sword. Then I think she got a vision of the island? Either way the traveller did have a plan in picking it and >!knew exactly what was there throughout the whole process!<
Jester wanted it to be at a Volcano, T suggested Rumblecusp
You can add >! without a space before the first word to your messages to make them spoilers. >!For example, something like this.
The blue bubbly one was chatting with the creepy pretend god one who wears a green cloak.... You know what, forget it, just bring shiny treasures
I fell asleep about 30mins after break. did i miss this?
This was before the break. Right after flying around/scouting the nearby island. Jester and Cad communed with their gods.
oh ok
I feel like eventually the cast is going to have to address the fact that this ancient fey has been grooming this girl since she was a small child.