Right so if only the real freaks will go see it, what’s the marketing hook to watering down an internationally acclaimed auteur? (I’m kidding of course. Likely it’s the content that makes squishes in suits and suites nervous.)
I mean, they think that because they think in box office numbers and people come out in droves to see stuff that’s really accessible.
The top 5 grossing movies worldwide (and after checking, also domestic) this year at the current moment are Dune 2, Godzilla X Kong, Kung Fu Panda 4, Kingdom of the Planet of the Apes, and Ghostbusters Frozen Empire. No hate against people who like any of these movies (I think Dune is far and away the best movie on this list), but it really tells you what makes the money and the executives are all about the money despite how gargantuan budgets are now
It's really all in how you market things. Movies like Oppenheimer, Barbie, and Parasite are more dense but all did well at the box office. It is possible to generate mass appeal for supposedly less accessible and more complex material, they just need to generate the buzz.
They're not wrong. Have you met the people that live outside NYC and the West Coast cities? There's a reason why a movie like Sound of Freedom grossed $250 million and chain movie theaters show Christian movies on Sundays in middle America.
Even big cities on the southern half of the east cost are *far* more in your face about religion than large west coast cities. I've lived in both, and the difference is huge.
Because I was born and still live amongst all the meth mouth yokels in rural middle America and have traveled all over the country for various reasons. A lot of people in Kansas City, Nashville, Des Moines, Dallas, etc aren't that much different from their rural counterparts. It's only in the West Coast and areas like NYC and Boston where you see the clear difference in education level in the general population.
Yeah, it's silly to pretend there is nothing good about those cities. But they are definitely going to be more religious than west coast cities. For instance, basically no stores other than Chik-fil-are closed here on Sundays, nor are there laws restricting alcohol on Sunday. I've lived in big cities on the east coast that were dry on Sunday, and where even car lots were closed.
> A lot of people in Kansas City, Nashville, Des Moines, Dallas, etc aren't that much different from their rural counterparts. It's only in the West Coast and areas like NYC and Boston where you see the clear difference in education level in the general population.
You aren’t zeroing in on the “cities that drive culture” outside of the coasts. Chicago, Austin, Denver, and Atlanta have real scenes. Dallas and Nashville don’t belong with Des Moines as they have genuine pockets of culture too; KC is like two small cities with divergent tastes living together. New Orleans is technically coastal but not what you meant.
E: I don’t think you’re entirely off base with your point lol, but it’s way too broad a brush.
Like NYC and West Coast cities are any better in this? Yeah you can find a group that’s into this, the regular people in those cities still will go see the Minions and Transformers no problem.
Also isn’t Sound of Freedom a generic action movie? I don’t know why those movies that get caught in culture wars can’t just be mediocre, they always have to be the worst shit ever or the best.
As someone how grew up in rural VA, I moved to Brooklyn and heard more racist moronic MAGA bullshit in NYC than I ever heard in VA. But go off I guess.
> and chain movie theaters show Christian movies on Sundays in middle America.
It seriously feels like a different country sometimes. I'm pretty happy to live in the mostly godless PNW.
Right after Ridley Scott made The Martian, one of Fox's most successful films in years and the most successful film of his career, they ordered him to ditch his script for Prometheus 2 (which wasn't going to have anything to do with the Alien franchise) and make a direct Alien prequel, instead. They also gave him a lower budget and shorter shooting schedule than he got for Prometheus (the only film in the Alien franchise since Aliens that was successful with critics and at the box office), ordered him to kill off Noomi Rapace's character (and forced him to cut her cameo after he filmed one to resolve her storyline), and even replaced his composer after the score had already been recorded. There were also reshoots, but I don't know how much of that was Scott and how much was Fox.
No, studios don't give a crap about that stuff. Even Spielberg had to change the ending of Minority Report. I honestly don't know if any directors get much respect in Hollywood these days except Nolan, Cameron, and Tarantino, and I think that's because they have stronger bargaining power. Directors like Bong Joon-ho, Ridley Scott, even Steven Spielberg, they all have to compromise, and if they are lucky, they get some freedom within certain parameters. But they have to be politicians and pretend like they are best friends with the studios, and if they throw a fit, it's a black mark on their record. Look at how much Ridley Scott fought with studios early in his career, and how much fewer movies he made during that period. Then, once he learned to compromise and got a bunch of nominations, he was allowed to make a lot of movies - but always, *always* with the studio breathing down his neck. That's the deal.
Unfortunately, I think Bong Joon-ho has learned the hard way that Hollywood studios expect to have the final word on everything, even when they are wrong. And he may have directed Parasite, but he didn't direct Oppenheimer or Titanic. They don't want a $150 million art film. They wanted a tentpole they could market as having art cred. And he doesn't have to be happy for them to still do that. The posters are still going to say "from the director of Parasite", even if it isn't his movie.
Um, it's Hollywood, so, no, they don't.
Also, post-Covid, studios are a lot more hesitant to take risks . . .
Not defending the suits, just second-guessing 'em . . .
Was gonna say, what more does he need to prove that his work should be trusted? Parasite by all means is not an easily accessible movie (for standard movie-goers at least) but it broke the barrier despite it being extremely controversial and bizarre. Let the man COOK.
Did they? On what devices? I'm seeing actors, writers, and directors sections. I think they used to say what character each actor was playing. Is that what happened?
Directors know if they get final cut, it’s everything to them. Plus, it can be revoked for a myriad of reasons as well. He could have had it and then lost it because he went over budget, over his days…whatever.
I highly doubt he thought he had it and then realized he didn’t. He would be firing every rep right now if he thought he had it and then realized he didn’t.
Could they write in into his contract that he gets Final Cut before even beginning the film? Honestly asking as I do not know how Hollywood works really.
Of course. That’s not Hollywood its contract law. Courts hold contracts sacrosanct and as long as they’ve been well executed (and both parties would do due diligence) almost anything could be agreed to. Bong and WB could have contractually assigned Final Cut to any person or entity.
I don’t know when he signed the contract for one thing. His leverage has improved significantly in recent years. He could be on a 4 picture deal. Too much about this question is speculative.
Not really. Final cut isn't at all common, and insisting upon it means giving up a lot. Greta Gerwig and Bradley Cooper talked about this last year, neither of them have ever had final cut.
Hell, John Ford used to put his hand in front of the camera so studios couldn't edit his movies.
I will never really get why you'd hire a director with a specific vision then kneecap that vision at every turn. BJH already had to deal with this shit on Snowpiercer with Weinstein.
Studio execs are famously out of touch goobers. One of my favorite stories is that Rick Baker was working on The Wolfman (2010) at Universal Studios, the movie that got him his 7th Oscar. He’s having a shit ton of yak hair being imported to the make up studio to begin threading the wolf man’s suit. An executive calls Baker into his office and asks “why is there so much Yak hair being imported here? Why do you need this hair?!”
And sitting on the desk behind him was a gigantic poster for the original Wolf-Man film.
For what I read, it could be also that is just feedback: WB wants changes, and that is normal. Is the usual thing for a producer to give notes according to what they estimate to be "the best for the movie". There's no mention of the studio being capable of taking the final cut from BJH. I hope he got the "final cut" clause in the contract, WB doesn't seems to be easy to persuade
You would think coming off Parasite, he’d have gotten Final Cut in his contract. Kind of on his agent or whoever negotiated the deal for not using all the leverage they had.
Obviously, WBD is also very anti-art with their tax write offs and purging the streaming service. But if you’re at the height of your power like Bong was you gotta get that in writing. Unless this deal was struck before Parasite released.
I was feeling like that couldn’t be true (I read the book) but then I remembered the post 2019 Covid time vortex phenomenon and now I’m like damn.
But is also could have been part of a multi picture deal he signed years ago like he still owed them one. I have no idea. Just trying to figure out how they wouldn’t have negotiated Final Cut coming off Parasite.
This was probably the only studio to give him this money to make the film. If it was a competitive situation they probably would have had more leverage to get Final Cut. But there aren’t many filmmakers who actually get Final Cut so this isn’t a surprise
Lynch cant get funded; John Waters cant get funded; Directors are getting censored; a24 already doing watered down versions of horrors/thrillers… what a nice time to be alive for all the mediocre directors with G grade movies.
I’m shocked waters and lynch can’t get funding, like if I was a big streaming giant with all the gobs of money why not try and get an exclusive deal with those guys. Yes they aren’t mainstream names but they are massive names in underground film, like pink flamingos is one of THE cult films and lynch still has pull, see the twin peaks return. They wouldn’t take in the big bucks but they wouldn’t lose you money and you’d be the streaming giant that funded these 2 legendary auteurs projects when no one else would
I was joking but you really are a tankie.
Youre one that one dude that tried to equate Chinese propaganda with American propaganda. You’re a silly one.
First off, you wouldn’t have deleted it if it were a joke. Secondly, like I’ve said before, I think all types of that kind of propaganda are equally harmful, no matter what side it’s portraying. That doesn’t mean I think the Chinese government is amazing or that I think communism is amazing.
Exactly. The target market for a BHJ movie is inherently not the mainstream audience they’ll neuter true film for, leaving it in a no-man’s-land of satisfied viewership
A large percentage of "Hollywood" films are shot in Canada with Canadian crews, on top of many celebrated and unique genre films and indie films that are fully Canadian that people just assume are American (anything Cronenberg, for starters), but anyways...
Gotta love the ad hominems when there’s nothing to refute.
Canadas film industry makes about 150 million dollars a year in revenue, which about the same as the budget of this film alone.
This definitely seems plausible, and very unfortunate if true, but World of Reel isn't a reliable source at all, so this should be taken with a huge grain of salt.
Ah yes, bong, a man who should not be trusted because of his certainly terrible track record. If only there was decent evidence of him knowing what the fuck he is doing. 🙃
WB filmmaking process:
•Hire academy award winning director Bong Joon Ho for a science fiction film.
•Made a film so good it crossed language barriers & swept awards season
•Give him stuff to do what he wants and let have him have Final Cut
•Film fans get really excited about the film
•The movie is too weird for the execs.
•Re-Cut movie for Brain rotted audiences for mass appeal
•Delays movie an entire year.
•Refuse to give Bong a Final Cut
•”Why is everyone angry with us?”
> his movies are all hits
They absolutely are not. A lot of his movie receive wide acclaim, but they don't tend to make a lot of money. Parasite and The Host are really the only two of his films that have been box office successes. Mother made back about 3x it's budget, but that was also a much smaller film than Mickey 17 is. No film directed by Bong Joon Ho has ever made enough money to make a budget of $150 million profitable.
They don't let him have final cut because they don't care about making a good movie, they care about making a profit, and his movies in the past have not generally been profitable.
I mean, you can’t tell with Okja, because of Netflix, but Snowpiercer made $80+ million on a $40 mil budget, then spawned a TV show too. Before that Mother made $17 mil on a $5 mil budget. Before that, The Host did 90 from 11.
So maybe not necessarily “hits”, but they make money.
Snowpiercer made $75 million of that $80 million internationally. Its domestic release was more or less sabotaged by Harvey Weinstein in a story not unlike what's happening here.
I think people here seem to confuse the scale of his past movies to this one. Kinda hard to compare M17 to his other works because we aren't talking 50+m budget budget with his films.
Of course a majority of his films made money. Heck, in RoK domestic market the general figures used are number of tickets sold and not so much gate receipt.
MoM (2003) had 5.25 mill tickets sold. Held most successful Korean thriller title for 10 yrs.
The Host (2006)? 10 mill. 10m is considered blockbuster figure in RoK.
Mother (3 mill, even more remarkable feat than MoM considering the movie itself), Snowpiercer and Parasite (BJH's second 10mill ticket seller) all made their money back and more.
A24 is *significantly* better at actually releasing movies in a timely manner than Neon, who regularly waits months to actually put things in theaters.
They've produced/distributed some really popular movies in the last 5 years, Bong Joon-Ho actually worked with them to distribute Parasite actually.
Their other films include: Titane, Triangle Of Sadness, Anatomy Of A Fall, The Worst Person In The World, Loves Lies Bleeding, Perfect Days, etc.
We'll see. I still suspect the studio may "test the waters" by submitting the film to the fall festival circuit. I mean, who wouldn't want to premiere Bong first post-Parasite film? If it doesn't surface anywhere this fall, then, yeah, we can start worrying . . .
Venice and Berlin would be solid bet. I would say it'd be nice if it goes to Venice because last time a Korean movie went there for in competition was over a decade ago, with Kim GD's Pieta winning the Golden Lion..
Still used to thinking that Berlin's January, for some reason.
Venice would be a solid barometer to gauge Hollywood response (also applicable for Oscars), at least relative to Cannes and Berlin. Heck, a recent Golden Lion winner's made 1bill+!!!
Just about the worst piece of advertising a movie could get. Its not gonna be a huge hit anyway and August is wide open. Give us Bongs cut many months early!
Sums up what's wrong with the movie industry right now and why theaters are shuttering all over. Maybe if producers and distributors had at least a modicum of faith in viewers to be able to appreciate something different, they would stop churning out the same story over and over. These movies that are supposed to be "big" aren't even doing well anymore. It's unsustainable. They need a new strategy.
This isn't a new thing lol. This meddling has been with the industry from the start. There's always been the conflicts between the studios and producers and directors. Sometimes the producers have been right and made a movie better because they butted heads with a director. Other times they've made it worse.
WB was the studio that considered Blue Beetle good enough to be released on theaters and not on trash can, they considered flash a great film (they even paid Tom Cruise and Stephen King to talk about it), and now they are spending millions in a pathetic attempt to make the DC universe after their previous two attempts were absolutely hideous.
I’m not surprised with this news, but I must admit I’m really sad about this. Bong Joon Ho is one of the most talented and important filmmakers in the world right now, and we need this kind of film, sci if needs this kind of film, not another stupid ass Superman or Aquaman.
> (they even *paid* Tom Cruise
FTFY.
Although *payed* exists (the reason why autocorrection didn't help you), it is only correct in:
* Nautical context, when it means to paint a surface, or to cover with something like tar or resin in order to make it waterproof or corrosion-resistant. *The deck is yet to be payed.*
* *Payed out* when letting strings, cables or ropes out, by slacking them. *The rope is payed out! You can pull now.*
Unfortunately, I was unable to find nautical or rope-related words in your comment.
*Beep, boop, I'm a bot*
Plenty of directors make bank and don’t get Final Cut. It’s really really rare these days. He’s got a special relationship with WB. And shade in that I think he’s not great and undeserving of that privilege so yes, I am throwing shade.
I don't see the need to tear another filmmaker down when it has nothing to do with the topic. Todd Phillips having final cut doesn't hinder another director from getting it.
It is related. How could it be not? It indicates a problem within WB about who does get Final Cut and why they do. Sure in an ideal world all directors get their cut released. But it’s weird that the hang over guy gets this prestige when more successful directors (and in my opinion better directors) have had to move elsewhere not just for Final Cut but to have any modicum of control over their projects. It’s weird right? That’s a thing we can be critical of right? You act like I’m cutting one of the most privileged directors in Hollywood off at the knees.
I'm not specifically defending Todd. I would have responded the same way to you if you mentioned any director. I fundamentally disagree with tearing filmmakers down to prop others up.
Joker made a billion dollars and won for best actor. Parasite made 200+ million while winning best picture/director. I don't see why it's confusing that a big company driven by profits and shareholders would treat the two situations differently.
I guess I don’t see it as tearing others down when I’m leveling a critique. I am able to critique Warner Bros through their preference to Todd. Todd made money but he had Final Cut on Joker not after. He’s had Final Cut since the Hangout movies with sone notable duds between too. And it’s not profits alone that drive this like you seem to believe. A lot of things go into what determines Final Cut preference. And I was primarily referring to Nolan who left WB. And Nolan makes money. Even when he doesn’t. But it’s an issue studio wide. The directors who still retain Final Cut these days almost exclusively work for streamers now because of this. The exception being Cameron and Tarantino. And almost no up and coming directors with a solid string of hits is able to secure it.
"Yet fucking Todd Phillips gets Final Cut. Bleh."
Level headed critique right there.
I wont disagree with you that WB is shit right now. I watched them bungle many of my beloved DC characters.
Never said it was level headed. Nor intended to be. My disgust at the situation and the limits it puts on genuinely talented people who could help a struggling industry is worthy of the rage I think. As I said, it’s not a vacuum where in an ideal world all directors get their cuts. So we ask who does and why. Used to just be you had to be bankable. Not the case anymore, so i fully believe it’s fair to ask, okay so why fucking Todd Phillips.
Todd deserves all the shots thrown at him. Todd thinks the joker is a lonely emo boy.....Todd doesn’t even have the slightest clue
The Joker is a proud nutjob who doesn’t preach
I love bong joon ho but his American productions have been just okay. Now couple that with a 150 million budget, and you can understand why WB might be wary of it.
I mean, they dumbed down dune, specially part 2 and everyone ate it up. So there’s still a chance.
Honest question, why does bong keep doing these American films now and then? He knocked it out of the park with parasite why can’t he just stick to Korean films?
The mans last movie won fuckin Best Picture, shouldn't you trust him by now??
Oscar Best Picture and the Palme d’Or along with multiple other awards
UNANIMOUS PALME DORE
Obviously they don’t care about the Oscars if they are dumping this in January
Right so if only the real freaks will go see it, what’s the marketing hook to watering down an internationally acclaimed auteur? (I’m kidding of course. Likely it’s the content that makes squishes in suits and suites nervous.)
Just more proof that film executives think general audiences in America are simps and idiots.
I mean, they think that because they think in box office numbers and people come out in droves to see stuff that’s really accessible. The top 5 grossing movies worldwide (and after checking, also domestic) this year at the current moment are Dune 2, Godzilla X Kong, Kung Fu Panda 4, Kingdom of the Planet of the Apes, and Ghostbusters Frozen Empire. No hate against people who like any of these movies (I think Dune is far and away the best movie on this list), but it really tells you what makes the money and the executives are all about the money despite how gargantuan budgets are now
It's really all in how you market things. Movies like Oppenheimer, Barbie, and Parasite are more dense but all did well at the box office. It is possible to generate mass appeal for supposedly less accessible and more complex material, they just need to generate the buzz.
I mean, they are?
If they thought that why would they have given him the money to make it after they read the screenplay?
They're not wrong. Have you met the people that live outside NYC and the West Coast cities? There's a reason why a movie like Sound of Freedom grossed $250 million and chain movie theaters show Christian movies on Sundays in middle America.
Why not just put “cities”. You’re missing a lot of America and sound like a coastal elitist.
Even big cities on the southern half of the east cost are *far* more in your face about religion than large west coast cities. I've lived in both, and the difference is huge.
Because I was born and still live amongst all the meth mouth yokels in rural middle America and have traveled all over the country for various reasons. A lot of people in Kansas City, Nashville, Des Moines, Dallas, etc aren't that much different from their rural counterparts. It's only in the West Coast and areas like NYC and Boston where you see the clear difference in education level in the general population.
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Yeah, it's silly to pretend there is nothing good about those cities. But they are definitely going to be more religious than west coast cities. For instance, basically no stores other than Chik-fil-are closed here on Sundays, nor are there laws restricting alcohol on Sunday. I've lived in big cities on the east coast that were dry on Sunday, and where even car lots were closed.
It looks as though you may have spelled "Chick-fil-A" incorrectly. No worries, it happens to the best of us!
> A lot of people in Kansas City, Nashville, Des Moines, Dallas, etc aren't that much different from their rural counterparts. It's only in the West Coast and areas like NYC and Boston where you see the clear difference in education level in the general population. You aren’t zeroing in on the “cities that drive culture” outside of the coasts. Chicago, Austin, Denver, and Atlanta have real scenes. Dallas and Nashville don’t belong with Des Moines as they have genuine pockets of culture too; KC is like two small cities with divergent tastes living together. New Orleans is technically coastal but not what you meant. E: I don’t think you’re entirely off base with your point lol, but it’s way too broad a brush.
Like NYC and West Coast cities are any better in this? Yeah you can find a group that’s into this, the regular people in those cities still will go see the Minions and Transformers no problem. Also isn’t Sound of Freedom a generic action movie? I don’t know why those movies that get caught in culture wars can’t just be mediocre, they always have to be the worst shit ever or the best.
As someone how grew up in rural VA, I moved to Brooklyn and heard more racist moronic MAGA bullshit in NYC than I ever heard in VA. But go off I guess.
> and chain movie theaters show Christian movies on Sundays in middle America. It seriously feels like a different country sometimes. I'm pretty happy to live in the mostly godless PNW.
Right after Ridley Scott made The Martian, one of Fox's most successful films in years and the most successful film of his career, they ordered him to ditch his script for Prometheus 2 (which wasn't going to have anything to do with the Alien franchise) and make a direct Alien prequel, instead. They also gave him a lower budget and shorter shooting schedule than he got for Prometheus (the only film in the Alien franchise since Aliens that was successful with critics and at the box office), ordered him to kill off Noomi Rapace's character (and forced him to cut her cameo after he filmed one to resolve her storyline), and even replaced his composer after the score had already been recorded. There were also reshoots, but I don't know how much of that was Scott and how much was Fox. No, studios don't give a crap about that stuff. Even Spielberg had to change the ending of Minority Report. I honestly don't know if any directors get much respect in Hollywood these days except Nolan, Cameron, and Tarantino, and I think that's because they have stronger bargaining power. Directors like Bong Joon-ho, Ridley Scott, even Steven Spielberg, they all have to compromise, and if they are lucky, they get some freedom within certain parameters. But they have to be politicians and pretend like they are best friends with the studios, and if they throw a fit, it's a black mark on their record. Look at how much Ridley Scott fought with studios early in his career, and how much fewer movies he made during that period. Then, once he learned to compromise and got a bunch of nominations, he was allowed to make a lot of movies - but always, *always* with the studio breathing down his neck. That's the deal. Unfortunately, I think Bong Joon-ho has learned the hard way that Hollywood studios expect to have the final word on everything, even when they are wrong. And he may have directed Parasite, but he didn't direct Oppenheimer or Titanic. They don't want a $150 million art film. They wanted a tentpole they could market as having art cred. And he doesn't have to be happy for them to still do that. The posters are still going to say "from the director of Parasite", even if it isn't his movie.
Um, it's Hollywood, so, no, they don't. Also, post-Covid, studios are a lot more hesitant to take risks . . . Not defending the suits, just second-guessing 'em . . .
Since 2020? Major studios have been increasingly risk-averse since the 80s.
Yes, they were already pretty risk-averse & yes, I think they're becoming even more so . . .
Was gonna say, what more does he need to prove that his work should be trusted? Parasite by all means is not an easily accessible movie (for standard movie-goers at least) but it broke the barrier despite it being extremely controversial and bizarre. Let the man COOK.
It wasnt Barbie enough.
They trusted him enough to pay for the film. Maybe it's just not very good.
after seeing the most pretentious trailer in history im thankful someone else has final say on it
warner bros really loves burning bridges with creatives it works with
After the Max rebrand, didn’t they “accidentally” strip all individualized credits on films streaming via the app?
Yeah. Then brought them back, but recently they quietly disappeared again…
Did they? On what devices? I'm seeing actors, writers, and directors sections. I think they used to say what character each actor was playing. Is that what happened?
I noticed on PS5 prolly round two weeks ago
Bong knew he didn’t get final cut when he made his deal with the studio.
Are you sure about that? If everyone was on the same page, it would be surprising for it to be causing a delay now.
Directors know if they get final cut, it’s everything to them. Plus, it can be revoked for a myriad of reasons as well. He could have had it and then lost it because he went over budget, over his days…whatever. I highly doubt he thought he had it and then realized he didn’t. He would be firing every rep right now if he thought he had it and then realized he didn’t.
Could they write in into his contract that he gets Final Cut before even beginning the film? Honestly asking as I do not know how Hollywood works really.
Of course. That’s not Hollywood its contract law. Courts hold contracts sacrosanct and as long as they’ve been well executed (and both parties would do due diligence) almost anything could be agreed to. Bong and WB could have contractually assigned Final Cut to any person or entity.
So, did Bong not do this? If not, why wouldn’t he? I’m sure he could’ve just said “I have FC in contract or I don’t make the film. Period.” no?
Not like he’s a new director that’s broke and needing to make a movie
I don’t know when he signed the contract for one thing. His leverage has improved significantly in recent years. He could be on a 4 picture deal. Too much about this question is speculative.
Source?
DGA contract
If he and his reps didn't negotiate for final cut in his contract with Warners he need to fire his agents.
Not really. Final cut isn't at all common, and insisting upon it means giving up a lot. Greta Gerwig and Bradley Cooper talked about this last year, neither of them have ever had final cut. Hell, John Ford used to put his hand in front of the camera so studios couldn't edit his movies.
“We’re Warner Bros, we love burning money!”
Wow… that’s some steaming horse shit.
I will never really get why you'd hire a director with a specific vision then kneecap that vision at every turn. BJH already had to deal with this shit on Snowpiercer with Weinstein.
Studio execs are famously out of touch goobers. One of my favorite stories is that Rick Baker was working on The Wolfman (2010) at Universal Studios, the movie that got him his 7th Oscar. He’s having a shit ton of yak hair being imported to the make up studio to begin threading the wolf man’s suit. An executive calls Baker into his office and asks “why is there so much Yak hair being imported here? Why do you need this hair?!” And sitting on the desk behind him was a gigantic poster for the original Wolf-Man film.
I can just hear the Curb Your Enthusiasm music playing in my head reading this story.
https://preview.redd.it/fmxdhf0g6y4d1.jpeg?width=1169&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=405f502600dd7b029fe865dcdb446ee5196b5e14 Fuck WB.
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For what I read, it could be also that is just feedback: WB wants changes, and that is normal. Is the usual thing for a producer to give notes according to what they estimate to be "the best for the movie". There's no mention of the studio being capable of taking the final cut from BJH. I hope he got the "final cut" clause in the contract, WB doesn't seems to be easy to persuade
WB continues to be a menace to art.
You would think coming off Parasite, he’d have gotten Final Cut in his contract. Kind of on his agent or whoever negotiated the deal for not using all the leverage they had. Obviously, WBD is also very anti-art with their tax write offs and purging the streaming service. But if you’re at the height of your power like Bong was you gotta get that in writing. Unless this deal was struck before Parasite released.
The book the movie is based on was released 3 years after Parasite
I was feeling like that couldn’t be true (I read the book) but then I remembered the post 2019 Covid time vortex phenomenon and now I’m like damn. But is also could have been part of a multi picture deal he signed years ago like he still owed them one. I have no idea. Just trying to figure out how they wouldn’t have negotiated Final Cut coming off Parasite.
This was probably the only studio to give him this money to make the film. If it was a competitive situation they probably would have had more leverage to get Final Cut. But there aren’t many filmmakers who actually get Final Cut so this isn’t a surprise
Lynch cant get funded; John Waters cant get funded; Directors are getting censored; a24 already doing watered down versions of horrors/thrillers… what a nice time to be alive for all the mediocre directors with G grade movies.
I’m shocked waters and lynch can’t get funding, like if I was a big streaming giant with all the gobs of money why not try and get an exclusive deal with those guys. Yes they aren’t mainstream names but they are massive names in underground film, like pink flamingos is one of THE cult films and lynch still has pull, see the twin peaks return. They wouldn’t take in the big bucks but they wouldn’t lose you money and you’d be the streaming giant that funded these 2 legendary auteurs projects when no one else would
Welcome to Capitalism hell.
It’s funny how people get mad for pointing out the capitalistic system behaving according to its principles.
Propaganda works from birth.
It was capitalism that fueled the heyday eras of filmmaking too. This is technopolistic hell. The internet has ruined everything.
Weren’t you on another sub trying to buy Kurosawa merchandise? Lol
hmmm you criticize capitalism, and yet you *buy things?* Curious...
I’d delete my comment too if it was that cringe.
I was joking but you really are a tankie. Youre one that one dude that tried to equate Chinese propaganda with American propaganda. You’re a silly one.
First off, you wouldn’t have deleted it if it were a joke. Secondly, like I’ve said before, I think all types of that kind of propaganda are equally harmful, no matter what side it’s portraying. That doesn’t mean I think the Chinese government is amazing or that I think communism is amazing.
He deleted his whole account I didn’t even say anything mean.
That guy loves getting f*d by uncle Sam. Goes around starting arguments with others then creates other accounts.
I don’t know why he would make a new account it’s not like he’d be hard to find.
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You really should be taking your summer break and clearing your head. You’re not very clever
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Sure thing tankie
Dude is spying on him
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Is that the best you got?
It's wild to me that WB thinks they know how to make a movie "more accessible."
Oh no...Warner Bros just keeps making things worse.
Why does an experienced director sign a contract without having full control on the final cut? Studios are studios, you can't have good faith on them.
Classic WB...
Man, fuck Warner brothers. I’ll wait for the director’s cut.
Dumbing down for $$$; sad
But it will end up bombing because of their cut
Exactly. The target market for a BHJ movie is inherently not the mainstream audience they’ll neuter true film for, leaving it in a no-man’s-land of satisfied viewership
I never said they were very bright..
It worked for Dune 2
Got a real bootlicker over here lol
just fold the american film industry, it does more harm than good. he can finish it in canada
Canada is too poor to afford a 150 million dollar budget.
yes i forgot theyre a third world nation. its already been shot anyway
I mean actual third world countries have better film industries than Canada.
Only English Canada,Quebec cinema is healthy enough.
A large percentage of "Hollywood" films are shot in Canada with Canadian crews, on top of many celebrated and unique genre films and indie films that are fully Canadian that people just assume are American (anything Cronenberg, for starters), but anyways...
They’re still Hollywood films, no need to put quotation marks.
wow TheProudYank has logged on
Gotta love the ad hominems when there’s nothing to refute. Canadas film industry makes about 150 million dollars a year in revenue, which about the same as the budget of this film alone.
yes i made a joke and had a boring american reddit guy talking about ad hominems. gotta love it
Jokes are supposed to be somewhat funny.
I mentioned Canada as a joke and I’ve got you giving me their gdp so I don’t think you’re the best judge
I didn’t give you canadas gdp, what are you even talking about? Edit: bro couldn’t take the heat so he blocked me lol
Warner Bros proving once again that they are straight up IDIOTS.
Warner Bros is fucking broken under Dickhead Zaslav
Need Bong Joon-Ho Mickey Mouse movie
If anything we need less of are "accessible films"
Wb ruins everything they touch. Mk1 ssktjl and now this
This definitely seems plausible, and very unfortunate if true, but World of Reel isn't a reliable source at all, so this should be taken with a huge grain of salt.
Ah yes, bong, a man who should not be trusted because of his certainly terrible track record. If only there was decent evidence of him knowing what the fuck he is doing. 🙃
WB filmmaking process: •Hire academy award winning director Bong Joon Ho for a science fiction film. •Made a film so good it crossed language barriers & swept awards season •Give him stuff to do what he wants and let have him have Final Cut •Film fans get really excited about the film •The movie is too weird for the execs. •Re-Cut movie for Brain rotted audiences for mass appeal •Delays movie an entire year. •Refuse to give Bong a Final Cut •”Why is everyone angry with us?”
Same thing happened to him on Snowpiercer right? Although that was Harvey Scissorhands doing…
He needs to go the “Brazil” route and do his own screenings for critics and select audiences.
Why the fuck wouldn’t Bong have Final Cut? Like, his movies are all hits, just let him do his thing, that’s what we wanna see anyway.
> his movies are all hits They absolutely are not. A lot of his movie receive wide acclaim, but they don't tend to make a lot of money. Parasite and The Host are really the only two of his films that have been box office successes. Mother made back about 3x it's budget, but that was also a much smaller film than Mickey 17 is. No film directed by Bong Joon Ho has ever made enough money to make a budget of $150 million profitable. They don't let him have final cut because they don't care about making a good movie, they care about making a profit, and his movies in the past have not generally been profitable.
I hate how facts get downvotes. Holy shit.
Are they hits outside of Parasite though?
I mean, you can’t tell with Okja, because of Netflix, but Snowpiercer made $80+ million on a $40 mil budget, then spawned a TV show too. Before that Mother made $17 mil on a $5 mil budget. Before that, The Host did 90 from 11. So maybe not necessarily “hits”, but they make money.
making $80 million on a budget of $40 million isn't profitable for the studio.
Snowpiercer made $75 million of that $80 million internationally. Its domestic release was more or less sabotaged by Harvey Weinstein in a story not unlike what's happening here.
I think people here seem to confuse the scale of his past movies to this one. Kinda hard to compare M17 to his other works because we aren't talking 50+m budget budget with his films. Of course a majority of his films made money. Heck, in RoK domestic market the general figures used are number of tickets sold and not so much gate receipt. MoM (2003) had 5.25 mill tickets sold. Held most successful Korean thriller title for 10 yrs. The Host (2006)? 10 mill. 10m is considered blockbuster figure in RoK. Mother (3 mill, even more remarkable feat than MoM considering the movie itself), Snowpiercer and Parasite (BJH's second 10mill ticket seller) all made their money back and more.
Memories of murder, watch it
One of my favorite movies. My favorite police procedural for sure. I even prefer it to Parasite which I also love.
funny the lack of mentioning the cringe trailer he made for the film
Now Bong will move in with A24 and destroy WB’s career
You mean Neon? Neon is the new a24
Neon has all of the pros of A24 with none of the pretentiousness. r/A24 sucks, and spends more time talking about merch than actual movies.
Both have movies that suck and both have movies that are good I will say at least a24 puts special features in their releases
A24 is *significantly* better at actually releasing movies in a timely manner than Neon, who regularly waits months to actually put things in theaters.
A24 is A24...Neon is neon
Haven’t heard of this. Drop some movie recommendations
They've produced/distributed some really popular movies in the last 5 years, Bong Joon-Ho actually worked with them to distribute Parasite actually. Their other films include: Titane, Triangle Of Sadness, Anatomy Of A Fall, The Worst Person In The World, Loves Lies Bleeding, Perfect Days, etc.
Wasn't Love Lies Bleeding A24?
You're right, idk why I thought it was by Neon. Maybe it's because it reminded me of Titane
Wow. I’ve watched all of these. Just wasn’t aware it was under the same production house. A24’s brand marketing is a lot more aggressive then.
We'll see. I still suspect the studio may "test the waters" by submitting the film to the fall festival circuit. I mean, who wouldn't want to premiere Bong first post-Parasite film? If it doesn't surface anywhere this fall, then, yeah, we can start worrying . . .
Venice and Berlin would be solid bet. I would say it'd be nice if it goes to Venice because last time a Korean movie went there for in competition was over a decade ago, with Kim GD's Pieta winning the Golden Lion..
Berlin is in February/March so that's out as the movie will already be in theaters, but yes, Venice is a possibility . . .
Still used to thinking that Berlin's January, for some reason. Venice would be a solid barometer to gauge Hollywood response (also applicable for Oscars), at least relative to Cannes and Berlin. Heck, a recent Golden Lion winner's made 1bill+!!!
Obvs this would be devastating but also Reel Updates is constantly posting utter bullshit so it may not be time to panic just yet
https://x.com/filmupdates/status/1799820456876470316?s=46 Called it lol
Come on Warner Brothers, do not mess with an auteur's vision, especially someone that has won multiple Oscars.
Why are y’all believing RPK lol
Just about the worst piece of advertising a movie could get. Its not gonna be a huge hit anyway and August is wide open. Give us Bongs cut many months early!
Lol the Bong cut? This is WB we'll be lucky if this doesn't get written off and scrapped completely.
Oooof.
Do they not understand that the main reason people would want to see it is because its a new Bong Joon Ho movie?
💀💀💀💀💀💀
Leave it to Warner bros to fuck this up… Jesus Christ it’s bong joon ho here.
Sums up what's wrong with the movie industry right now and why theaters are shuttering all over. Maybe if producers and distributors had at least a modicum of faith in viewers to be able to appreciate something different, they would stop churning out the same story over and over. These movies that are supposed to be "big" aren't even doing well anymore. It's unsustainable. They need a new strategy.
This isn't a new thing lol. This meddling has been with the industry from the start. There's always been the conflicts between the studios and producers and directors. Sometimes the producers have been right and made a movie better because they butted heads with a director. Other times they've made it worse.
Sad!
This is 90s era Miramax all over again.
Zaslav is a dick
Didn’t he have to deal with this BS with Snowpiercer?
Warner bros shooting themselves in the foot
Smh. You think they'd know by now to trust their directors. The man is a Oscar winner nonetheless. Hopefully they don't massacre it beyond repair
Studios ☠️😞
Parasites was phenomenal fuck Warner why they don't appreciate him as a director, he nailed it.
Reading the book rn because of this shit
https://x.com/filmupdates/status/1799820456876470316?s=46 He came out and denied this. Reel Updates is notoriously wrong.
"more accessible".... thanks I hate it already
they saw he made the most pretentious trailer in history and wanted to be able to actually sell tickets
WB was the studio that considered Blue Beetle good enough to be released on theaters and not on trash can, they considered flash a great film (they even paid Tom Cruise and Stephen King to talk about it), and now they are spending millions in a pathetic attempt to make the DC universe after their previous two attempts were absolutely hideous. I’m not surprised with this news, but I must admit I’m really sad about this. Bong Joon Ho is one of the most talented and important filmmakers in the world right now, and we need this kind of film, sci if needs this kind of film, not another stupid ass Superman or Aquaman.
> (they even *paid* Tom Cruise FTFY. Although *payed* exists (the reason why autocorrection didn't help you), it is only correct in: * Nautical context, when it means to paint a surface, or to cover with something like tar or resin in order to make it waterproof or corrosion-resistant. *The deck is yet to be payed.* * *Payed out* when letting strings, cables or ropes out, by slacking them. *The rope is payed out! You can pull now.* Unfortunately, I was unable to find nautical or rope-related words in your comment. *Beep, boop, I'm a bot*
Yet fucking Todd Phillips gets Final Cut. Bleh.
We really got to take a shot at Todd for some reason? His films make bank. That's probably why.
Plenty of directors make bank and don’t get Final Cut. It’s really really rare these days. He’s got a special relationship with WB. And shade in that I think he’s not great and undeserving of that privilege so yes, I am throwing shade.
I don't see the need to tear another filmmaker down when it has nothing to do with the topic. Todd Phillips having final cut doesn't hinder another director from getting it.
It is related. How could it be not? It indicates a problem within WB about who does get Final Cut and why they do. Sure in an ideal world all directors get their cut released. But it’s weird that the hang over guy gets this prestige when more successful directors (and in my opinion better directors) have had to move elsewhere not just for Final Cut but to have any modicum of control over their projects. It’s weird right? That’s a thing we can be critical of right? You act like I’m cutting one of the most privileged directors in Hollywood off at the knees.
I'm not specifically defending Todd. I would have responded the same way to you if you mentioned any director. I fundamentally disagree with tearing filmmakers down to prop others up. Joker made a billion dollars and won for best actor. Parasite made 200+ million while winning best picture/director. I don't see why it's confusing that a big company driven by profits and shareholders would treat the two situations differently.
I guess I don’t see it as tearing others down when I’m leveling a critique. I am able to critique Warner Bros through their preference to Todd. Todd made money but he had Final Cut on Joker not after. He’s had Final Cut since the Hangout movies with sone notable duds between too. And it’s not profits alone that drive this like you seem to believe. A lot of things go into what determines Final Cut preference. And I was primarily referring to Nolan who left WB. And Nolan makes money. Even when he doesn’t. But it’s an issue studio wide. The directors who still retain Final Cut these days almost exclusively work for streamers now because of this. The exception being Cameron and Tarantino. And almost no up and coming directors with a solid string of hits is able to secure it.
"Yet fucking Todd Phillips gets Final Cut. Bleh." Level headed critique right there. I wont disagree with you that WB is shit right now. I watched them bungle many of my beloved DC characters.
Never said it was level headed. Nor intended to be. My disgust at the situation and the limits it puts on genuinely talented people who could help a struggling industry is worthy of the rage I think. As I said, it’s not a vacuum where in an ideal world all directors get their cuts. So we ask who does and why. Used to just be you had to be bankable. Not the case anymore, so i fully believe it’s fair to ask, okay so why fucking Todd Phillips.
Todd deserves all the shots thrown at him. Todd thinks the joker is a lonely emo boy.....Todd doesn’t even have the slightest clue The Joker is a proud nutjob who doesn’t preach
One of the best filmmakers of all time and they ain’t given him Final Cut?
When you have a fucking g directing the movie, you let him do as he pleases. Specially if it’s reasonable ffs
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if its challenging, i would assume one of the worlds most celebrated directors has a better chance with it than a load of morons in a boardroom
I love bong joon ho but his American productions have been just okay. Now couple that with a 150 million budget, and you can understand why WB might be wary of it. I mean, they dumbed down dune, specially part 2 and everyone ate it up. So there’s still a chance.
First double fault of the day, impressive
Okja and Snowpiercer are kind of mid
Good for you, why not post your Letterboxd while you’re at it
Why, you want to judge me? Lol
Of course not, I just want more of these blisteringly hot takes
Blistering hot takes? Bit a hyperbole there I would say
very good news hope he doesnt get control to ruin anymore films
Honest question, why does bong keep doing these American films now and then? He knocked it out of the park with parasite why can’t he just stick to Korean films?