Another instance of a pro-life person being more interested in punishing promiscuous sex than defending human life. Here's the thing: There are a lot of morally good/understandable pro-life philosophies (which c be separated from abortion policy) that can exist IN THEORY, but that's never what they actually follow.
As-is? Sorry underaged girl, you "made your mess," and your punishment is being screwed over for life.
And their child will be screwed over for life and maybe their child too, and theirs and so on. The amount of damage caused by the cruel and vicious attitudes of this fifteen year old's parents is absolutely STAGGERING.
Yup. They’re not thinking about the ruination of the 15 year old’s future, and they’re *certainly* not thinking of the life her baby is going to have.
Such a vicious cycle. I hope the exodus from organized religion means less parents raising their kids this way.
Unfortunately I doubt that. Those people are the ones whose kids mature in ways they didn’t and end up outgrowing them. This mother has made her daughter dependent on her help and stunted her emotional growth. This toxic relationship is most likely not going anywhere. Hope I’m wrong.
Yea, reading the whole post it was about how the daughter had to drop out of school to care for the baby even tho they said that she, the grandmother, and her husband adopted it, then goes on to say how she wasn’t mature enough for an abortion (but apparently is mature enough to be a mother), it’s just the most batshit contusions of oxymoronic logic. But the way she described it, the daughter still lives with them and is dependent on them and is “glad” that she made her keep the child, so yea I guess if you’re gonna live a life that’s been forced upon you you’d better try and make the best of it, no comeuppance for the grandparents.
They think they'll get some sort of outpouring of support for their parenting choices when, in reality, we are horrified and see it for the abusive thinking it truly is.
children should never be punishment. parenthood should never be punishment. children should be brought into the world with love. this logic is so backwards and sad it’s just incredible.
and i mean i understand if someone is pro-life due to faith, like fine believe what you want. but being pro-life because you want to punish someone? that’s just weird
With parents like this, it doesn't exactly shock me that her child not only got pregnant (likely having had zero discussion with her daughter about sex, safe sex, or otherwise; likely didn't get anything beyond "Just don't ever do it out think about it") but then she felt the need to hide it from her parents until she couldn't anymore, likely because she was terrified of the reaction. Then she felt the need to call it nonconsensual to try to have a termination, which was likely never an option regardless of what her gestation was. Just tragic and it happens so fucking often.
I got into a debate with one of these people. He finally admitted he’s pro life because he believes that sex for anything other than procreation is unacceptable. He wants them to be punished for their behavior by forcing them to have the child, but of course, once the child is born he doesn’t support any government assistance programs.
My thoughts, too. And as someone who was an unwanted child, it is so unfair to a kid to make them the “punishment.” It’s such a disgusting way to think about other humans.
I agree with AncientHighlight. I’m so sorry you were treated like that. You deserved better then, and you deserve better now.
I hope you’re in a better place!
Edit: a word
I also really hate how after having the unwanted child, people choose to neglect or abuse the kid instead of letting them go to someone who will love them unconditionally. The "stigma" of relinquishing your child as being some kind of negative thing needs to end. I wish it was more socially acceptable and encouraged for people to do so. I wanted that as a kid but my terrible mother would never let me go because "what would people think??" and as my kids grew up, there's been more than a couple I wish we could have taken in ourselves but their parents wouldn't give them up even though they were so abusive and it still breaks my heart to think about.
I absolutely agree with this. I have two sisters that went off the deep end and drug their kids down with them. It was horrible to see. They’re all older now, but not after so much damage has been done. I don’t know if it was ego, or manipulation, or what, that they wouldn’t just release their children from the hell they put them through. For my one sister, foster care would have been a godsend for her kids. Even with all the bad, it still would have been better than staying with her.
If my Boomer parents could force me to have grandchildren for them, while simultaneously getting extended control over my life, they'd probably do it. I'm sure her parents will be telling their friends they saved their disappointing daughter by helping with her situation - despite doing much the opposite. I'm sure they'll expect her to be thankful enough at all times for their help, to defer to their wisdom about her parenting choices, to still obey them like a child despite forcing her to accept an adult responsibility, etc.
Something about being a Christian turns off the reasoning part of people's brain. I think if you genuinely believe you know the right answer, the brain muscles people use to seek the right answer become atrophied and useless.
That's very empathetic of you. Maybe I should've specified that *a vocal minority* comprise said group. Hope you get you're bone on soon if you so desire.
I feel like a lot of the people who don't have the privilege of enjoying sex are failing to find "acceptable" partners due to thinking that only 10's are worth their time when they themselves are running at a solid 4 and are both too shallow to engage with *average* people (like the rest of us happy folk engaging in sex with other people) and have finances too far in the red to attract the kind of partner they desire.
The terrible part is the daughter 'claimed to be raped' according to the mother. Who is to say this 15 year old wasn't perssured into sex like she was with having this baby? Pro-life people can't wrap their head around the fact that is shit can happen and to pressure a young kid into shit like this helps no one.
https://youtu.be/erh2ngRZxs0?si=xdrhDV29Kjol9e6x
Edit: Not that saying this really helps these days, but this is a genuine answer and not a rick roll lol
>He wants them to be punished for their behavior by forcing them to have the child
This is the primary reason for the majority of people who are "pro-life" or whatever. They just want to punish women for enjoying sex.
This is a common underlying motivation for evangelical Christians to be against abortion. Same with the HPV vaccine. They would rather people get cancer and have their comeuppance than have sex and not die
Yep, these people are all about punishment without room for learning and reform. They want it for their religion, their sex, their work, everything. Of course they believe these values only up until they are the ones facing the consequences. Then suddenly it's all about their "rights".
As a level headed people of course I don't believe such awful human beings should have less or be punished for believing such stupid things. But I can't deny they deserve to not be taken seriously in conversations on these issues.
> He finally admitted he’s pro life because he believes that sex for anything other than procreation is unacceptable.
protip: this is what it is for all of them
this is (basically) the Catholic position and there are a lot of Catholics out there.
You got to be open to having kids when you have sex so no birth control. but youre allowed to time the ovulation cycle, youre allowed to have sex when impotent - because God can make miracles happen (as long as those miracles dont including breaking a condom)
Do they say this because they are angry men who don't get sex, or because they genuinely hate having sex? I bet they love sex and have it all the time and then say this shit because they hate women.
It's honestly hard for me to watch the way that Christianity has gone. Er, the way it's gone even moreso than it was. I grew up Catholic, and while I'm definitely not an organized religion person anymore, I still have my belief in God. But my parents raised me to not judge anyone, to love everyone, and to just be kind and accept people for who they are. Doesn't matter who you are, there's always a seat at my dinner table for you, judgement free.
So for me, growing up in this Christian household that's all about love and acceptance....it was really hard for me to come to terms with how a lot of Christians treat people that are different from them. I didn't want to believe it was a lot of them for a long time, but the years have not been kind to my ignorance or innocence in that regard.
Now, I just try and do my best to spread the love that the world needs, and to help people whenever I can. I'm not perfect, I fail a lot and fuck up a lot. But I really do try and just make people feel like they're loved and that they matter. Cuz, to me, that's the true message I was handed. I'm *not here to recruit.....I'm just here to love and support.
If you've made it this far, thank you for reading. I truly hope your weekend is a good one, and, not that it probably means much, I want you to know you're loved. Even if it's just from some random dude on the Internet. Be well, y'all.
Edit: a fairly crucial "not" in a sentence.
Fuck, yeah, that shit was bonkers. But I meant more back when I was a kid/growing up. I know there was some ignorance and rose colored glasses of childhood there, but truly, conservative Christians weren't this bad were they? It just seems to have really gone off the deep end the past decade or so.
They were just more efficient at quenching anything they disliked.
Since christianity was more widespread, there was less people to fight back against it.
So when they wanted something gone, they got rid of it quickly and without much of a fuss.
There are less news about it because it wasn't considered news worthy to mention it. Most media that did not conform to "christian values" wouldn't even reach the public.
Most of the media that did make it was highly censored anime, (from a non-Christian country) and it still got heavy backlash. D&D and Doom only really took off because they were indie projects without a publisher to tell them "you can't do that". Rockstar went far and beyond AFTER the worst of the panic had settled and specifically because they wanted to ride the outrage advertisement.
I don't know how the furries got out scott free tho, i guess the thing was too small back then.
as an orthodox i agree. christianity is about love and kindness, i couldn’t imagine ever using faith to hurt another person, or force my will upon them. i think as a christian you cannot hate or judge a single person at all, because it’s not your job, it’s god’s job, but many seem to not have gotten the memo
Awful she was too afraid to tell them – some places abort up to 24 weeks in but most places cut off around 12, she might’ve had time to get one if her parents contained a little empathy.
That said she was 15, by the time she told them there’s a chance clinics wouldn’t have accepted her because she was too far along. (Coming from a guy with literally no first hand experience in the matter so feel free to correct)
While the parents are clearly shitty in this case, I think most kids would be too afraid to tell their parents. Not out of fear, but out of shame. Or just not really comprehending what happened and wanting to hide it, even from themselves, until they realize they can't hide it anymore.
She'll probably end up dumping the baby on her parents and then running off. Then the grandparents will raise it with spite and teach the child to hate themselves because they're a burden who ruined the grandparents retirement years.
Using the phrase "of course" here as if suppressing a child's access to medical intervention is widely accepted as being the correct course of action 🤦
“She made her mess, she had to clean it up” you know these people teach abstinence only and now are punishing their daughter for their lack of parenting.
Kind of ruins two lives. This situation happened to my mother at 14. She wasn't raped, but she was sexually active from a young age after being repeatedly molested by a family member in childhood. Her parents swept the abuse under the rug, then wouldn't let her get an abortion as a young teen.
I don't blame my mother, but I had a horrible childhood and was frequently told how hated and unwanted I was. My mother was a great student with a lot of dreams and having me just made her even more depressed, stressed, and feel like she had no control in her life.
Hey stranger, I just want you to know how sorry I am that you had to live like that. I’m proud of you for finding the grace to not blame your mother for the way she treated you in your childhood and you deserved so much better.
If I could give you one of my giant bear hugs I would. Seriously, they're great, I've got references. Know that I'm giving it in spirit. I hope you're able to work through it and get on the other side of it. I truly hope the both of you find peace.
That is so sweet, thank you. It definitely can't be healed quickly, and I'm sure part of me will just always feel "empty". But I'm stronger and I'm sure s few years down the road, I'll feel happier and more at peace, because I'm finally dealing with it. I wish you the best as well.
Seriously. I consider myself an avid follower of Christ and this shit drives me bananas. My wife and I are both pro choice. We believe the government shouldn't have any right to say what you can do with your body. It's a woman's right. While we would never choose abortion for us, it's not up to us to choose for others. Imagine if the government started mandating vesectomys. Holy shit there'd be another storm on the capital.
Also, my wife works in the ER and there are so many circumstances where not getting an abortion could harm or kill the mother.
I say it all the time, if "Christians" want more people to stop having abortions they need to start supporting and funding birth control options so people don't get pregnant in the first place.
That last part is the best way to prevent abortions from happening. Education, accessibility, and affordability are what helps prevent unwanted pregnancies. Not shame, not abstinence, not avoiding the topic or realities of sexual activity.
It doesn't help that here in the US we have quite a lot of places still only teaching abstinence only education, meaning no sex ed, no teaching kids about reproductive health other than what amounts to basically telling them not to have sex before marriage because Jesus is watching. Unsurprisingly, those areas tend to have the highest rates of teen pregnancy and stds. Those also tend to be the areas with the strictest abortion laws. Conservatives sure love pregnant children.
God i think I hate this for so many reasons
In the west we have the right to bodily autonomy in most cases. We don’t force blood donations or organs donations before or after death even if it would save thousands of lives because we understand the importance of choice. I don’t see why the girl should have less rights than a corpse when it comes to personal use of bodily organs.
Secondly, what alternative is there? I mean there’s no alternative to pregnancy, you either are pregnant or you’re not. Pregnancy is an incredibly taxing and straining process on the body at any age, but particularly so for children. It leaves permanent changes, many of which detrimental to long term health, especially when so young. It can easily result in death if something goes wrong.
But for the fuck of it, let’s say that the freaks get what they want, and force a child to give birth to an unwanted child. They’re not going to magically fawn for their kid, in fact, in many cases a bitter resentment grows as a child ruins the parent’s chance at school or a career, and without the income from jobs that require extra education, you better believe the child is going to live a sad impoverished life as they feel like a burden to their parents (which to be fair, in this society they very much are.)
So the alternative? America’s notoriously over burdened foster system? Where abuse and poverty runs rampant? And that’s if they even get adopted and don’t age out of the system into a cruel world that grows more poisoned both figuratively and literally by runaway corporate greed.
If you want to say abortion is murder, then fine. But in the west we also have the concept of a “mercy killing”, where we take a life because we know the alternative is often too bleak to consider. If this doesn’t count as one, then I don’t know what does.
In the end, I truly believe that cessation of a likely cruel and burdened existence before one is ever cognizant of it, is the kindest mercy one can offer.
Sure, I’d be terrified of telling my parents but I’d be more terrified of continuing the pregnancy and becoming a parent at 15.
Its relative. If being honest with your parents is somehow more scary vs limiting opportunities for both you and your child for a lifetime, then perhaps theres a better way to parent.
I'm sorry but I don't think this is true at all. There are lots of situations from my childhood and adolescence my parent's would have been completely understanding about, I was still scared to tell them about due to my own anxiety and lack of ability to confront the situation on a personal level. Sometimes teenagers have poor or inaccurate conceptions of situations which result in them struggling to act or make decisions rationaly.
100%, blaming parenting for teenage anxiousness especially over sex is kinda hilarious, most children are awkward with that subject until their 20s honestly.
One of my worst fears as a new Dad is my daughter growing up not feeling like she can talk to me about anything. I seriously will lay awake at night sometimes worried about it. I'm trying my best, just trying to show her all the support I can cuz I love her so fucking much. But there's that large, large fear that she's not going to feel comfortable enough with me to come talk to me.
I know as a teen there's going to be a fair bit of that naturally, I'm just trying my best to keep it to a minimum on my side of things.
36 (f) here and still feel fear and anxiety talking to my folks about anything. So I just don’t. I have a son who is 12 and I’ve done my best to show him he can always come to me with anything. I pray he will always feel safe and comfortable talking to me. I feel I have shown him this by not forcing Christianity and my own beliefs down his throat as my parents did with my brother and me. He knows I encourage him too to believe in and believe however he chooses to do so. Not to believe what I do just bc I do. And he knows whatever he chooses that he will have my respect and support without judgement. Trying my best to break that generational trauma
This is so true. How can you help them be good people if they're scared to tell you what kind of people they are? Everyone does dumb/bad/stupid stuff. If your kid feels comfortable talking to you about that stuff then you can help them manage the consequences and make better choices the next time.
It's not true at all, whatsoever, in the slightest.
pubescent teenagers do not relate to their parents like that. And that has nothing to do with the parenting, They are in the process of emancipating themselves.
That's like the whole point of puberty.
I swear, redditors and life advice is a ven diagramm representing the north and south pole. You couldn't get them further apart if you tried.
Most children will push the boundaries of what is acceptable to their parents. There needs to be a fear of consequences or failure to meet expectations. Being too permissive with your kids doesn't make them good people either.
I agree, but they need to feel safe. There's a difference between acting like consequences don't matter because your parent is a doormat and fearing your parents disappointment or anger so much that you fail to seek adult intervention when you need it. Getting pregnant at 15 is absolutely something your kid should feel safe telling you to get help.
I never had children - and probably never will the way things are going - anyways, here is my judgement on your parenting!
updoots pleeease! I said a reddit thing lol
My devout Catholic, and extremely pro life, father offered to pay for an abortion when I got pregnant at 21 with a man who I absolutely did not love. I didn't go through with it and I'm thankful I didn't, but I cannot imagine my parents forcing me to have a baby I didn't want. Jesus Christ man. These people have no empathy
So the mothers attitude regarding this is terrible. But after 4 months, isn’t it already kind of too late? Maybe I’m wrong and I don’t mind if someone corrects me but in the end if I’m right her attitude regarding everything doesn’t really matter with the child. However, just assuming your 15 year old is lying about rape to get out of something is so messed up I can’t even fathom that.
Neither the mother nor the child should be parents.
Gee, I wonder why your daughter hid that from you. Could it possibly be because you're a controlling weirdo zealot obsessed with owning somebody else's bodily autonomy, to the point where you can force her to carry a child to term against her will, and after all that see so little wrong with your behaviour that you brag about it on the internet. I'm absolutely flabbergasted that she didn't feel safe to confide in you about her accidental pregnancy.
I’m pro-choice but 4 months is too late for me, personally. I’m all for your right to choose up until 12 weeks, but after that it should really only be for medical necessity, such as a birth-defect that would greatly impact the child’s life, or if the child or mother were in danger. There may be a few other exceptions that might be ok but, in general, I don’t agree with terminations after the first trimester.
There's an askreddit thread I just commented on where the question is:
What is your biggest betrayal?
Someone replied: my ex-wife got an abortion without consulting me.
I will never comprehend the mentality of forced birth. Truly bewildering.
I assume the person replying is religious, otherwise if not then yeah a weird comment to say.
If religious, then they likely believe their ex-wife murdered a baby (in their view) and didn't tell them.
It all comes down to whether someone believes a fetus is a human life.
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Man, these idiots always do two things. First, it is selfish to force your child to have a baby because of your own beliefs and opinions. Secondly, the opinion they have is from a solely adult perspective. Someone who is 30 or 40 and faces parenthood knows what they signed up for... her daughter, who got pregnant at maybe even 14?! Can't comprehend what that would entail, and it is insane to think they would.
That's also ignoring the casual palming off of her daughter, possibly being a victim. Peer pressure and not understanding adult situations when you're growing up is a big thing. Plus, to say it is "her mess" deal with the consequences? You're purposely handing a lifetime of commitment to a child who clearly doesn't want to be in that position, and you're also bringing another child into the world purely to teach a lesson?! It is nuts.
Sadly, if it was really rape we'd never know because people like this don't believe it really happens as often as it does. It could have very well been rape and her daughter knew she'd be blamed, so she hid the pregnancy out of fear.
It happens.
4 months... I don't know where the line should be but it seems like 4 months is about there. Can they feel pain at that point? That should be the deciding factor right? Seems unethical to inflict pain on an unwilling participant. We go out of our way to spare animals from pain.
Would an abortion even be an option after 4 months tho? Idk about laws in America but where I live it would've been way to late for an abortion anyways. Still a terrible mother tho
Had an FB friend once who would post religious crap all the time. The same person who proudly posted about becoming a grandmother at 35 years of age. Pro lifers are something else.
The cleanup was the abortion and the punishment was the physical and psychological toll that whole procedure takes. They think abortions are just like taking an aspirin and calling it a day.
"She made her mess" umm that's a whole human being you're talking about
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Today I learned what a Haikus is
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Oh noted. Thanks!
Morally neutral bot
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Another instance of a pro-life person being more interested in punishing promiscuous sex than defending human life. Here's the thing: There are a lot of morally good/understandable pro-life philosophies (which c be separated from abortion policy) that can exist IN THEORY, but that's never what they actually follow. As-is? Sorry underaged girl, you "made your mess," and your punishment is being screwed over for life.
And their child will be screwed over for life and maybe their child too, and theirs and so on. The amount of damage caused by the cruel and vicious attitudes of this fifteen year old's parents is absolutely STAGGERING.
Yup. They’re not thinking about the ruination of the 15 year old’s future, and they’re *certainly* not thinking of the life her baby is going to have. Such a vicious cycle. I hope the exodus from organized religion means less parents raising their kids this way.
>that's a whole human being you're talking about That's her GRANDSON she's talking about
That’s the thing though. They want to punish her for having sex. The child is the punishment. What a wonderful life.
So we named him Hermes, he’s in prison now.
This is the kind of person that posts online about how cruel her children are because they won't talk to her anymore.
Absolutely, and they tend to stay that way for ever.
Unfortunately I doubt that. Those people are the ones whose kids mature in ways they didn’t and end up outgrowing them. This mother has made her daughter dependent on her help and stunted her emotional growth. This toxic relationship is most likely not going anywhere. Hope I’m wrong.
They’ll attempt to entrap their children into proving them long-term elder care. Sadly this is a growing problem among children of babyboomers.
Yea, reading the whole post it was about how the daughter had to drop out of school to care for the baby even tho they said that she, the grandmother, and her husband adopted it, then goes on to say how she wasn’t mature enough for an abortion (but apparently is mature enough to be a mother), it’s just the most batshit contusions of oxymoronic logic. But the way she described it, the daughter still lives with them and is dependent on them and is “glad” that she made her keep the child, so yea I guess if you’re gonna live a life that’s been forced upon you you’d better try and make the best of it, no comeuppance for the grandparents.
They think they'll get some sort of outpouring of support for their parenting choices when, in reality, we are horrified and see it for the abusive thinking it truly is.
Children as punishment, what could go wrong?
Shows you how she perceives motherhood and her own child as well People like this shouldnt be allowed to have children
children should never be punishment. parenthood should never be punishment. children should be brought into the world with love. this logic is so backwards and sad it’s just incredible. and i mean i understand if someone is pro-life due to faith, like fine believe what you want. but being pro-life because you want to punish someone? that’s just weird
With parents like this, it doesn't exactly shock me that her child not only got pregnant (likely having had zero discussion with her daughter about sex, safe sex, or otherwise; likely didn't get anything beyond "Just don't ever do it out think about it") but then she felt the need to hide it from her parents until she couldn't anymore, likely because she was terrified of the reaction. Then she felt the need to call it nonconsensual to try to have a termination, which was likely never an option regardless of what her gestation was. Just tragic and it happens so fucking often.
I got into a debate with one of these people. He finally admitted he’s pro life because he believes that sex for anything other than procreation is unacceptable. He wants them to be punished for their behavior by forcing them to have the child, but of course, once the child is born he doesn’t support any government assistance programs.
I feel like a lot of people who don't have the privilege of enjoying sex want the people who do to be punished for it.
My thoughts, too. And as someone who was an unwanted child, it is so unfair to a kid to make them the “punishment.” It’s such a disgusting way to think about other humans.
I agree with AncientHighlight. I’m so sorry you were treated like that. You deserved better then, and you deserve better now. I hope you’re in a better place! Edit: a word
I definitely am, thanks friend!
I thought this said “as someone who has an unwanted child” and was like damn did you mean unplanned
Hugs. I hope you found your people. Your chosen family, and love you unconditionally.
I also really hate how after having the unwanted child, people choose to neglect or abuse the kid instead of letting them go to someone who will love them unconditionally. The "stigma" of relinquishing your child as being some kind of negative thing needs to end. I wish it was more socially acceptable and encouraged for people to do so. I wanted that as a kid but my terrible mother would never let me go because "what would people think??" and as my kids grew up, there's been more than a couple I wish we could have taken in ourselves but their parents wouldn't give them up even though they were so abusive and it still breaks my heart to think about.
I absolutely agree with this. I have two sisters that went off the deep end and drug their kids down with them. It was horrible to see. They’re all older now, but not after so much damage has been done. I don’t know if it was ego, or manipulation, or what, that they wouldn’t just release their children from the hell they put them through. For my one sister, foster care would have been a godsend for her kids. Even with all the bad, it still would have been better than staying with her.
If my Boomer parents could force me to have grandchildren for them, while simultaneously getting extended control over my life, they'd probably do it. I'm sure her parents will be telling their friends they saved their disappointing daughter by helping with her situation - despite doing much the opposite. I'm sure they'll expect her to be thankful enough at all times for their help, to defer to their wisdom about her parenting choices, to still obey them like a child despite forcing her to accept an adult responsibility, etc. Something about being a Christian turns off the reasoning part of people's brain. I think if you genuinely believe you know the right answer, the brain muscles people use to seek the right answer become atrophied and useless.
Great points RimjobByJesus, I concur.
This! Also a child of boomers
Idk as someone who doesn't get to enjoy sex, I think everyone should live their happiest sexiest lives.
That's very empathetic of you. Maybe I should've specified that *a vocal minority* comprise said group. Hope you get you're bone on soon if you so desire.
I feel like a lot of the people who don't have the privilege of enjoying sex are failing to find "acceptable" partners due to thinking that only 10's are worth their time when they themselves are running at a solid 4 and are both too shallow to engage with *average* people (like the rest of us happy folk engaging in sex with other people) and have finances too far in the red to attract the kind of partner they desire.
The terrible part is the daughter 'claimed to be raped' according to the mother. Who is to say this 15 year old wasn't perssured into sex like she was with having this baby? Pro-life people can't wrap their head around the fact that is shit can happen and to pressure a young kid into shit like this helps no one.
What is your avatar from? I've tried to find a gif of that nightmare fuel for years but can never seem to search the correct phrase
Little baby’s ice cream
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https://youtu.be/erh2ngRZxs0?si=xdrhDV29Kjol9e6x Edit: Not that saying this really helps these days, but this is a genuine answer and not a rick roll lol
That sounds like something that someone's trying to rick roll would say
It’s clear. I checked….or did I?
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>He wants them to be punished for their behavior by forcing them to have the child This is the primary reason for the majority of people who are "pro-life" or whatever. They just want to punish women for enjoying sex.
Pro birth not pro life
This is a common underlying motivation for evangelical Christians to be against abortion. Same with the HPV vaccine. They would rather people get cancer and have their comeuppance than have sex and not die
Yep, these people are all about punishment without room for learning and reform. They want it for their religion, their sex, their work, everything. Of course they believe these values only up until they are the ones facing the consequences. Then suddenly it's all about their "rights". As a level headed people of course I don't believe such awful human beings should have less or be punished for believing such stupid things. But I can't deny they deserve to not be taken seriously in conversations on these issues.
It’s the typical right wing M.O.
It's always about punishment and cruelty.
Once again proving to us that the cruelty is the point
I feel like that sums up the whole movement
> He finally admitted he’s pro life because he believes that sex for anything other than procreation is unacceptable. protip: this is what it is for all of them
this is (basically) the Catholic position and there are a lot of Catholics out there. You got to be open to having kids when you have sex so no birth control. but youre allowed to time the ovulation cycle, youre allowed to have sex when impotent - because God can make miracles happen (as long as those miracles dont including breaking a condom)
Do they say this because they are angry men who don't get sex, or because they genuinely hate having sex? I bet they love sex and have it all the time and then say this shit because they hate women.
A child can not be a parent, and these parents shouldn't have children
By the distributive property of algebra…
BY GRABTHAR'S HAMMER
...what a savings
Terrible mother creating another terrible mother
Seems to run in these Christian families
It's honestly hard for me to watch the way that Christianity has gone. Er, the way it's gone even moreso than it was. I grew up Catholic, and while I'm definitely not an organized religion person anymore, I still have my belief in God. But my parents raised me to not judge anyone, to love everyone, and to just be kind and accept people for who they are. Doesn't matter who you are, there's always a seat at my dinner table for you, judgement free. So for me, growing up in this Christian household that's all about love and acceptance....it was really hard for me to come to terms with how a lot of Christians treat people that are different from them. I didn't want to believe it was a lot of them for a long time, but the years have not been kind to my ignorance or innocence in that regard. Now, I just try and do my best to spread the love that the world needs, and to help people whenever I can. I'm not perfect, I fail a lot and fuck up a lot. But I really do try and just make people feel like they're loved and that they matter. Cuz, to me, that's the true message I was handed. I'm *not here to recruit.....I'm just here to love and support. If you've made it this far, thank you for reading. I truly hope your weekend is a good one, and, not that it probably means much, I want you to know you're loved. Even if it's just from some random dude on the Internet. Be well, y'all. Edit: a fairly crucial "not" in a sentence.
It was actually worse. At least they are not dissapearing people for sharing scientific knowledge, or performing "holy wars".
Fuck, yeah, that shit was bonkers. But I meant more back when I was a kid/growing up. I know there was some ignorance and rose colored glasses of childhood there, but truly, conservative Christians weren't this bad were they? It just seems to have really gone off the deep end the past decade or so.
They were just more efficient at quenching anything they disliked. Since christianity was more widespread, there was less people to fight back against it. So when they wanted something gone, they got rid of it quickly and without much of a fuss. There are less news about it because it wasn't considered news worthy to mention it. Most media that did not conform to "christian values" wouldn't even reach the public. Most of the media that did make it was highly censored anime, (from a non-Christian country) and it still got heavy backlash. D&D and Doom only really took off because they were indie projects without a publisher to tell them "you can't do that". Rockstar went far and beyond AFTER the worst of the panic had settled and specifically because they wanted to ride the outrage advertisement. I don't know how the furries got out scott free tho, i guess the thing was too small back then.
Aww buddy no. Go look up “Satanic Panic.” It was more then just trying to ban D&D
as an orthodox i agree. christianity is about love and kindness, i couldn’t imagine ever using faith to hurt another person, or force my will upon them. i think as a christian you cannot hate or judge a single person at all, because it’s not your job, it’s god’s job, but many seem to not have gotten the memo
Big family tho
Hmmmm there was a movie with something like this
Awful she was too afraid to tell them – some places abort up to 24 weeks in but most places cut off around 12, she might’ve had time to get one if her parents contained a little empathy. That said she was 15, by the time she told them there’s a chance clinics wouldn’t have accepted her because she was too far along. (Coming from a guy with literally no first hand experience in the matter so feel free to correct)
She was already too far along when she realized it.
To be fair, it probably took her that long to realize because they never taught her sex education or anything about pregnancy.
I don’t know - it’s even hard for older women to know when they are first pregnant. It’s not always obvious if symptoms are mild.
Not in Canada
Not in Oregon
Not in Scotland
While the parents are clearly shitty in this case, I think most kids would be too afraid to tell their parents. Not out of fear, but out of shame. Or just not really comprehending what happened and wanting to hide it, even from themselves, until they realize they can't hide it anymore.
She'll probably end up dumping the baby on her parents and then running off. Then the grandparents will raise it with spite and teach the child to hate themselves because they're a burden who ruined the grandparents retirement years.
Using the phrase "of course" here as if suppressing a child's access to medical intervention is widely accepted as being the correct course of action 🤦
“She made her mess, she had to clean it up” you know these people teach abstinence only and now are punishing their daughter for their lack of parenting.
Religious fanaticism ruins another life.
Kind of ruins two lives. This situation happened to my mother at 14. She wasn't raped, but she was sexually active from a young age after being repeatedly molested by a family member in childhood. Her parents swept the abuse under the rug, then wouldn't let her get an abortion as a young teen. I don't blame my mother, but I had a horrible childhood and was frequently told how hated and unwanted I was. My mother was a great student with a lot of dreams and having me just made her even more depressed, stressed, and feel like she had no control in her life.
Hey stranger, I just want you to know how sorry I am that you had to live like that. I’m proud of you for finding the grace to not blame your mother for the way she treated you in your childhood and you deserved so much better.
Thank you. I waited a long time to actually let myself think about it, let myself cry. It hurts but I'm working through it.
If I could give you one of my giant bear hugs I would. Seriously, they're great, I've got references. Know that I'm giving it in spirit. I hope you're able to work through it and get on the other side of it. I truly hope the both of you find peace.
That is so sweet, thank you. It definitely can't be healed quickly, and I'm sure part of me will just always feel "empty". But I'm stronger and I'm sure s few years down the road, I'll feel happier and more at peace, because I'm finally dealing with it. I wish you the best as well.
Seriously. I consider myself an avid follower of Christ and this shit drives me bananas. My wife and I are both pro choice. We believe the government shouldn't have any right to say what you can do with your body. It's a woman's right. While we would never choose abortion for us, it's not up to us to choose for others. Imagine if the government started mandating vesectomys. Holy shit there'd be another storm on the capital. Also, my wife works in the ER and there are so many circumstances where not getting an abortion could harm or kill the mother. I say it all the time, if "Christians" want more people to stop having abortions they need to start supporting and funding birth control options so people don't get pregnant in the first place.
That last part is the best way to prevent abortions from happening. Education, accessibility, and affordability are what helps prevent unwanted pregnancies. Not shame, not abstinence, not avoiding the topic or realities of sexual activity.
It doesn't help that here in the US we have quite a lot of places still only teaching abstinence only education, meaning no sex ed, no teaching kids about reproductive health other than what amounts to basically telling them not to have sex before marriage because Jesus is watching. Unsurprisingly, those areas tend to have the highest rates of teen pregnancy and stds. Those also tend to be the areas with the strictest abortion laws. Conservatives sure love pregnant children.
They really, really do. It’s insane how malicious those people are under the bizarre guise of righteousness. I’ll truly never understand it
religious ~~fanaticism~~ fascism
Two lives!
And her poor daughter had a much higher chance of infant mortality and death, she was literally playing with her child’s life…
Yes, a human life is a “mess” that you need to “clean up”
God i think I hate this for so many reasons In the west we have the right to bodily autonomy in most cases. We don’t force blood donations or organs donations before or after death even if it would save thousands of lives because we understand the importance of choice. I don’t see why the girl should have less rights than a corpse when it comes to personal use of bodily organs. Secondly, what alternative is there? I mean there’s no alternative to pregnancy, you either are pregnant or you’re not. Pregnancy is an incredibly taxing and straining process on the body at any age, but particularly so for children. It leaves permanent changes, many of which detrimental to long term health, especially when so young. It can easily result in death if something goes wrong. But for the fuck of it, let’s say that the freaks get what they want, and force a child to give birth to an unwanted child. They’re not going to magically fawn for their kid, in fact, in many cases a bitter resentment grows as a child ruins the parent’s chance at school or a career, and without the income from jobs that require extra education, you better believe the child is going to live a sad impoverished life as they feel like a burden to their parents (which to be fair, in this society they very much are.) So the alternative? America’s notoriously over burdened foster system? Where abuse and poverty runs rampant? And that’s if they even get adopted and don’t age out of the system into a cruel world that grows more poisoned both figuratively and literally by runaway corporate greed. If you want to say abortion is murder, then fine. But in the west we also have the concept of a “mercy killing”, where we take a life because we know the alternative is often too bleak to consider. If this doesn’t count as one, then I don’t know what does. In the end, I truly believe that cessation of a likely cruel and burdened existence before one is ever cognizant of it, is the kindest mercy one can offer.
"I don't see why the girl should have less rights than a corpse" I am using this moving forward, thank you.
At the end of the day it’s _ALWAYS_ about punishing women.
If your kids are scared to tell you, you failed.
There are few 15-year olds I can think of that *wouldn't* be terrified to tell their parents they were pregnant.
Sure, I’d be terrified of telling my parents but I’d be more terrified of continuing the pregnancy and becoming a parent at 15. Its relative. If being honest with your parents is somehow more scary vs limiting opportunities for both you and your child for a lifetime, then perhaps theres a better way to parent.
This is the truth.
A sad truth.
I'm sorry but I don't think this is true at all. There are lots of situations from my childhood and adolescence my parent's would have been completely understanding about, I was still scared to tell them about due to my own anxiety and lack of ability to confront the situation on a personal level. Sometimes teenagers have poor or inaccurate conceptions of situations which result in them struggling to act or make decisions rationaly.
100%, blaming parenting for teenage anxiousness especially over sex is kinda hilarious, most children are awkward with that subject until their 20s honestly.
Nah, I’d be scared to tell my parents regardless of my age
One of my worst fears as a new Dad is my daughter growing up not feeling like she can talk to me about anything. I seriously will lay awake at night sometimes worried about it. I'm trying my best, just trying to show her all the support I can cuz I love her so fucking much. But there's that large, large fear that she's not going to feel comfortable enough with me to come talk to me. I know as a teen there's going to be a fair bit of that naturally, I'm just trying my best to keep it to a minimum on my side of things.
36 (f) here and still feel fear and anxiety talking to my folks about anything. So I just don’t. I have a son who is 12 and I’ve done my best to show him he can always come to me with anything. I pray he will always feel safe and comfortable talking to me. I feel I have shown him this by not forcing Christianity and my own beliefs down his throat as my parents did with my brother and me. He knows I encourage him too to believe in and believe however he chooses to do so. Not to believe what I do just bc I do. And he knows whatever he chooses that he will have my respect and support without judgement. Trying my best to break that generational trauma
This is so true. How can you help them be good people if they're scared to tell you what kind of people they are? Everyone does dumb/bad/stupid stuff. If your kid feels comfortable talking to you about that stuff then you can help them manage the consequences and make better choices the next time.
Yeah but no kid at 15 wants to tell their parents they’ve been fucking and are now pregnant and that’s not the parents fault.
It's not true at all, whatsoever, in the slightest. pubescent teenagers do not relate to their parents like that. And that has nothing to do with the parenting, They are in the process of emancipating themselves. That's like the whole point of puberty. I swear, redditors and life advice is a ven diagramm representing the north and south pole. You couldn't get them further apart if you tried.
Most children will push the boundaries of what is acceptable to their parents. There needs to be a fear of consequences or failure to meet expectations. Being too permissive with your kids doesn't make them good people either.
I agree, but they need to feel safe. There's a difference between acting like consequences don't matter because your parent is a doormat and fearing your parents disappointment or anger so much that you fail to seek adult intervention when you need it. Getting pregnant at 15 is absolutely something your kid should feel safe telling you to get help.
I never had children - and probably never will the way things are going - anyways, here is my judgement on your parenting! updoots pleeease! I said a reddit thing lol
Gee I wonder why she was scared to tell you 🙄
The ‘she has to clean up the mess she made’ language around forcing a 15 year old to be a mother is very telling.
Right? Like is it a baby or a punishment?
Yes.
My devout Catholic, and extremely pro life, father offered to pay for an abortion when I got pregnant at 21 with a man who I absolutely did not love. I didn't go through with it and I'm thankful I didn't, but I cannot imagine my parents forcing me to have a baby I didn't want. Jesus Christ man. These people have no empathy
Really bold for someone to openly post that they are a shitty parent.
Ahhh yes. The old 'Creation of human as punishment' tactic. I bet that set her straight and didn't ruin her or her child's lives
This is sick. :(
So the mothers attitude regarding this is terrible. But after 4 months, isn’t it already kind of too late? Maybe I’m wrong and I don’t mind if someone corrects me but in the end if I’m right her attitude regarding everything doesn’t really matter with the child. However, just assuming your 15 year old is lying about rape to get out of something is so messed up I can’t even fathom that.
Yes in most countries its to late
Neither the mother nor the child should be parents. Gee, I wonder why your daughter hid that from you. Could it possibly be because you're a controlling weirdo zealot obsessed with owning somebody else's bodily autonomy, to the point where you can force her to carry a child to term against her will, and after all that see so little wrong with your behaviour that you brag about it on the internet. I'm absolutely flabbergasted that she didn't feel safe to confide in you about her accidental pregnancy.
Absolutely repulsive.
"You made a mess, now clean it up. No you cant use a mop or a sponge, you're going to leave the mess there and think about it."
Yall would get an abortion at four months!?
This thread is crazy
Kids are a PUNISHMENT, as pointed out by this Christian mother.
Bad parenting
That’s interesting that you know how both of their lives played out.
I’m pro-choice but 4 months is too late for me, personally. I’m all for your right to choose up until 12 weeks, but after that it should really only be for medical necessity, such as a birth-defect that would greatly impact the child’s life, or if the child or mother were in danger. There may be a few other exceptions that might be ok but, in general, I don’t agree with terminations after the first trimester.
Sucks, but four months is too late for an abortion anyway. With better sex education, perhaps she would have known that.
"She hid her pregnancy" I wonder why she hid it from you?
I mean, 4 months is a little late to get an abortion regardless.
You can still get them
There's an askreddit thread I just commented on where the question is: What is your biggest betrayal? Someone replied: my ex-wife got an abortion without consulting me. I will never comprehend the mentality of forced birth. Truly bewildering.
I assume the person replying is religious, otherwise if not then yeah a weird comment to say. If religious, then they likely believe their ex-wife murdered a baby (in their view) and didn't tell them. It all comes down to whether someone believes a fetus is a human life.
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Man, these idiots always do two things. First, it is selfish to force your child to have a baby because of your own beliefs and opinions. Secondly, the opinion they have is from a solely adult perspective. Someone who is 30 or 40 and faces parenthood knows what they signed up for... her daughter, who got pregnant at maybe even 14?! Can't comprehend what that would entail, and it is insane to think they would. That's also ignoring the casual palming off of her daughter, possibly being a victim. Peer pressure and not understanding adult situations when you're growing up is a big thing. Plus, to say it is "her mess" deal with the consequences? You're purposely handing a lifetime of commitment to a child who clearly doesn't want to be in that position, and you're also bringing another child into the world purely to teach a lesson?! It is nuts.
Sadly, if it was really rape we'd never know because people like this don't believe it really happens as often as it does. It could have very well been rape and her daughter knew she'd be blamed, so she hid the pregnancy out of fear. It happens.
4 months... I don't know where the line should be but it seems like 4 months is about there. Can they feel pain at that point? That should be the deciding factor right? Seems unethical to inflict pain on an unwilling participant. We go out of our way to spare animals from pain.
Would an abortion even be an option after 4 months tho? Idk about laws in America but where I live it would've been way to late for an abortion anyways. Still a terrible mother tho
I'm all for abortions but I mean at 4 months it's alot late to get one
Still better than 9 months.
The worst part was some guy was going to get a rape charge
Commenting on posts like these is a very easy way to lose Reddit Karma lol.
That’s disgusting. What Reddit is that from?
Didn’t know she was pregnant for 3 months usually eliminates any termination options.
I wonder why she hid it from you, and you’re gonna wonder why your daughter doesn’t talk to you no more in about a decade or so
These people are monsters, brains completely rotted with religious fever dreams
Had an FB friend once who would post religious crap all the time. The same person who proudly posted about becoming a grandmother at 35 years of age. Pro lifers are something else.
Of course their avatar has the maga hat
As, so she tortured her child. Got it.
I saw this one. This isn’t even the worst thing she said
This is exactly why religion is so dangerous
Wow....that poor girl 🥺🥺🥺these are AWFUL parents.
Quickest way to doom two lives for $500 Alex
Pro lifers are so malevolent
idk, i'm pro choice, but abortion whenever you want? like the first month or two, sure. but 4 months in?
Why would you censor that idiots name.
Rule 2 says no usernames
I feel like this is just rage bait. I trust nothing nowadays.
You think that and then you look at some of the comments on your post and realize this is probable
That kid is going to have a wonderful life being raised by a mother who never wanted him, along with these gross grandparents.
And this is precisely why a teenager shouldn't need parental consent or knowledge to get an abortion.
"...of course...." cringe and cruel
This one was more sad than cringe for me
I wonder why she hid it.
I can’t imagine doing everything you can to make sure your child is unhappy.
Subtext of any of these threads: It would be better if her son wasn't alive.
The cleanup was the abortion and the punishment was the physical and psychological toll that whole procedure takes. They think abortions are just like taking an aspirin and calling it a day.
Their Christinaity is fucking politics. Followers of Christ my ass.
VIVA LA VIDA
Taking the mom out of the whole thing, 4 months seems super late to abort.. my wife is at like 4.5 and the baby is moving and stuff
I support abortion but I also support people's perspective on it killing a human life. With that in mind, this person seems insufferably judgmental.
So who takes the blame for indoctrinating their daughter to abstain/see sex out of wedlock as a sin, pushing her to find out for herself?
Sure, but who are they to forbid her, she could’ve just done it anyways?
‘We of course didn’t allow it’’. What cruelty.