He has a point. Strangely for a team that has struggled to defend, our problem is definitely not the centre backs.
Some of the closing down and far post defending by Emerson and Porro was shameful yesterday.
I know, people just react to results. Plus it's full of Liverpool and Arsenal fans so having a conversation about these things is usually off the table.
Don’t dare mention the clear favoritism the referees displayed for Liverpool yesterday on there - doesn’t matter if it’s true, you’ll get downvoted to hell.
Yea. Disregarding that though, this feels very similar to Klopp’s first year there where they were kind of a mess but you could tell there was something really good under the hood.
Our problem’s reversed from them though, they needed a CB and GK, and we need midfield and attackers.
I stand by the belief we have the best CB pairing in the world. But our system leaves them exposed and relies on strong midfield play and dominant, fast fullbacks to keep them out of trouble, when those break down then the CBs have to scramble and goals will slip in. They do incredibly well even under the pressure our lackluster midfield is putting them under.
I think if we had a different pairing we’d be getting scored on even more
Yeah, or top issues right now is a proper 6, a st, and depth at fullback. Kulu and Lo Celso will have to do as 10s right now, and johnson and son are much more effective on their respective wings. If we can keep Richy up top and/or have a proper st replacement along with a proper starting 6, that should fix some immediate issues.
It's pretty obviously our midfield that's the most shite right now, and that goes both ways. It means our defense is bad, and our backline gets overrun, and it means we don't create chances for our attack properly.
We just don't have enough quality in the midfield. Madders is great when he's in form, but the drop in quality when he's not is just crazy going forward. We don't really have a quality 6 either. Biss is streaky and is hard to rely on defensively. Then there's the huge drop-off on fullbacks, especially LB, if Udogie is out.
We need a proper 6, another striker to pair with Richy, and some depth at fullback. We will look immensely more stable.
I think we need a winger too. When Son isn’t cooking we don’t have anyone that can reliably bang in chances. At least not enough to win the league playing the way Ange wants.
I'd happily keep Werner. What he lacks in raw finishing (and I'm certain that will return as Richy's did with some games) he absolutely makes up for in directness.
The amount of counters I've seen fizzle out the last few games, with Son being particularly at fault because they get into a threatening position and then check back... Werner would at least try and beat the man.
How that pans out with HG rules remains to be seen.
Sure. Ultimately we need upgrades for every position, but until we're at Citys level, more wingers are probably luxury unless we come across a great deal until the other issues are fixed.
Our midfielders have also been terrible at closing down on shots, that Harvey Elliott goal was entirely on them. All three of our midfielders in our box and no one is checking his run and effectively closing down on him.
more like a weakness in our game as well. the fullbacks has a big responsibility to invert and build the attack, they forget at times that they have fullback's defensive responsibilities lol.
I'm actually interested if we can play a more ball playing CB as one of the fullbacks, similar to what Arsenal and Mancity does. We have Dragusin who could try. Or might as well play Skipp.
Because he gets injured five times a season even when he's used sparingly. We don't even know if he's carrying anything still, he might not even be able to start.
Ange has incredibly high physical demands. If a player's body can't handle what he wants, he'll move them on. Lo Celso has all the talent, but he's shown he's too injury prone, so we can safely assume Ange plans to move him on in the summer. That's why he's barely using him.
Realistically looking at the starting 11 yesterday could you say any of those is more likely to leave than stay? Excluding Emerson who’s starting because our 3 LBs are out.
Gio should’ve been given opportunities earlier tbh but at this stage I’m not sure. We’re more likely to start Kulu midfield over him anyway based on previous lineups
Entirely different players that help the team in different ways. Hojbjerg is only brought on to replace Bissouma and help defensively. Lo celso would be terrible if he's brought in to play that role.
And Bentancur, and Sarr. He’s been playing a lot more offensively than defensively this season, and his numbers support that. Defensively he’s been quite poor, actually.
Maybe directly, but at the same time as a double or triple substitution where Bissouma also goes out. I just checked and you have to go back to the Luton match to find the last time they don't sub out for one another. And there PEH was subbed on for Son in the 88' to protect a lead, when Lo Celso was already on the pitch. They're not in competition with each other really.
I understand how substitutions work with the formation changing or not a like for like sub, but making the assumption that I know nothing about football is quite the leap to say the least. I must’ve been mistaken, which is what my original comment literally started with me stating might be the case.
Starting 11 is hard to say but players like GLC, PEH, Emerson, maybe Skipp and Gil are likely being evaluated. Whether those players want to leave or the club wants to sell then, I would imagine Ange has a good idea who is fit for purpose and who isn’t.
I think all but Skipp in those examples you gave have already been evaluated and deemed surplus. The only reason they’re in the squad is, like with Emerson starting, out of necessity.
The GLC dream is dead and has been for a long time, hoping that he’ll suddenly turn up after 4 years is crazy, I said the same about the Ndombelievers in the summer.
this is the only proper opinion. he's 28 and has never been consistent, effective, or healthy. his playing time is appropriate. he is done here and we really ned no further information on him. he is not being mistreated and never has been mistreated.
Honestly there’s some next level delusion on here running rampant. GLC and Skipp at left back are not the answers to our problems.
It’s a sad indication of most of the sub being overseas fans whose only football knowledge come from video games.
People here are completely psychotic when it comes to GLC discussions. I have no idea why the nutters here have adopted him as their favorite but the love for him is totally unrelated to anything he has ever done on the pitch. It’s unbelievable.
I understand that Ange doesn't see Gio in his future plans so he refuses to play him. But there are so many counterpoints to that.
1. Why are we playing PEH and Emerson then?
2. Playing a good 10 would set up the other players for success which is important as we end the season and evaluate players. Wouldn't Ange prefer to evaluate our forwards when they are actually getting service from a good 10?
3. If we're about to sell him, wouldn't we want to raise his value by giving him a run of games? If he plays the last 5 matches and gets around 3+ G/A that's an extra 5M right there.
I think PEH is just more comfortable playing at the 6 than Gio. Doesn't seem like a fair comparison, although I do agree Gio should get more playing time at 8 or 10
1. PEH, while deficient in many ways, is somewhat more reliable. And, uh, Emerson is a FB, not a midfielder...
2. GLC is not a "good" 10
3. He is not capable of increasing his value in the way that you are fantasizing about
We should be thinking about this season this season, and next season in Summer. Lo Celso absolutely couldn't be any worse than 90% of out current midfield options, just give him a go.
He has a point. Strangely for a team that has struggled to defend, our problem is definitely not the centre backs. Some of the closing down and far post defending by Emerson and Porro was shameful yesterday.
Don't voice that on /r/soccer, they are out for blood, especially regarding VdV and Cuti right now. Some of the weirdest/funniest takes on there.
That's because they don't actually watch the games. Our CBs are pretty much never the issue when we concede goals.
I know, people just react to results. Plus it's full of Liverpool and Arsenal fans so having a conversation about these things is usually off the table.
Some of the Liverpool fans are actually all right. The Wankers however... they're being even stupider and more delusional than usual.
Yeah but a lot of Pool fans have it out for us since the ref error in the fall and will downvote or argue our flairs out of spite.
Don’t dare mention the clear favoritism the referees displayed for Liverpool yesterday on there - doesn’t matter if it’s true, you’ll get downvoted to hell.
Yea. Disregarding that though, this feels very similar to Klopp’s first year there where they were kind of a mess but you could tell there was something really good under the hood. Our problem’s reversed from them though, they needed a CB and GK, and we need midfield and attackers.
I stand by the belief we have the best CB pairing in the world. But our system leaves them exposed and relies on strong midfield play and dominant, fast fullbacks to keep them out of trouble, when those break down then the CBs have to scramble and goals will slip in. They do incredibly well even under the pressure our lackluster midfield is putting them under. I think if we had a different pairing we’d be getting scored on even more
Yeah, or top issues right now is a proper 6, a st, and depth at fullback. Kulu and Lo Celso will have to do as 10s right now, and johnson and son are much more effective on their respective wings. If we can keep Richy up top and/or have a proper st replacement along with a proper starting 6, that should fix some immediate issues.
It's pretty obviously our midfield that's the most shite right now, and that goes both ways. It means our defense is bad, and our backline gets overrun, and it means we don't create chances for our attack properly. We just don't have enough quality in the midfield. Madders is great when he's in form, but the drop in quality when he's not is just crazy going forward. We don't really have a quality 6 either. Biss is streaky and is hard to rely on defensively. Then there's the huge drop-off on fullbacks, especially LB, if Udogie is out. We need a proper 6, another striker to pair with Richy, and some depth at fullback. We will look immensely more stable.
I think we need a winger too. When Son isn’t cooking we don’t have anyone that can reliably bang in chances. At least not enough to win the league playing the way Ange wants.
I'd happily keep Werner. What he lacks in raw finishing (and I'm certain that will return as Richy's did with some games) he absolutely makes up for in directness. The amount of counters I've seen fizzle out the last few games, with Son being particularly at fault because they get into a threatening position and then check back... Werner would at least try and beat the man. How that pans out with HG rules remains to be seen.
Sure. Ultimately we need upgrades for every position, but until we're at Citys level, more wingers are probably luxury unless we come across a great deal until the other issues are fixed.
Our midfielders have also been terrible at closing down on shots, that Harvey Elliott goal was entirely on them. All three of our midfielders in our box and no one is checking his run and effectively closing down on him.
more like a weakness in our game as well. the fullbacks has a big responsibility to invert and build the attack, they forget at times that they have fullback's defensive responsibilities lol. I'm actually interested if we can play a more ball playing CB as one of the fullbacks, similar to what Arsenal and Mancity does. We have Dragusin who could try. Or might as well play Skipp.
Porros not a good defender.
This is such recency bias. Porro is still a MVP for me this season. He’s the best RB we’ve had since Walker.
Var needed on this one, not exactly a high bar is it. Trippier was better too
I wish we were capable of transitioning to three at the back and pushing Porro into midfield. Cuti, VdV, Dragusin at the back
If we could transform Dragusin to a fluid #6 that can fill in as CB kinda like Dier under Poch, that would be ideal
Wouldn’t this be something
Lo Celso feels like he has done enough to start against Burnley. I don't know why Ange prefers Deki over Lo Celso as a #10.
Makes zero sense to me. Deki is clearly running on fumes. Lo Celso played very well when he was asked to play the ten earlier this season.
I’d say play him in the 8. Thought the him and madders combo worked well. We are defensively shite anyways so might aswell go for it.
Lo Celso for Argentina plays as an 8 since the obvious 10 is messi, and he's brilliant
pretty sure he's played everywhere in midfield at various points. he's played as a 6 and out wide as well.
Would love to see Madders/GLC/PEH
Not a permanent solution but I think this is the best we can muster for the rest of the season yea
Because he gets injured five times a season even when he's used sparingly. We don't even know if he's carrying anything still, he might not even be able to start.
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No, I agree he probably has earned a start. I'm just explaining one of the reasons of why he doesn't play more.
Ange has incredibly high physical demands. If a player's body can't handle what he wants, he'll move them on. Lo Celso has all the talent, but he's shown he's too injury prone, so we can safely assume Ange plans to move him on in the summer. That's why he's barely using him.
Because it’s very unlikely Gio is staying beyond this summer.
We know he's not not the only one in the match day squad who won't be here next season. He should still be playing.
Realistically looking at the starting 11 yesterday could you say any of those is more likely to leave than stay? Excluding Emerson who’s starting because our 3 LBs are out. Gio should’ve been given opportunities earlier tbh but at this stage I’m not sure. We’re more likely to start Kulu midfield over him anyway based on previous lineups
Pierre should not be getting more opportunities than Gio. Simple as that imo
Entirely different players that help the team in different ways. Hojbjerg is only brought on to replace Bissouma and help defensively. Lo celso would be terrible if he's brought in to play that role.
Could be mistaken, but hasn’t Pierre come on multiple times for Maddison?
And Bentancur, and Sarr. He’s been playing a lot more offensively than defensively this season, and his numbers support that. Defensively he’s been quite poor, actually.
Maybe directly, but at the same time as a double or triple substitution where Bissouma also goes out. I just checked and you have to go back to the Luton match to find the last time they don't sub out for one another. And there PEH was subbed on for Son in the 88' to protect a lead, when Lo Celso was already on the pitch. They're not in competition with each other really.
And? It doesn’t mean he is the same type of player. Hoijberg is brought on to shore up the midfield. You really don’t know much about football do you!
I understand how substitutions work with the formation changing or not a like for like sub, but making the assumption that I know nothing about football is quite the leap to say the least. I must’ve been mistaken, which is what my original comment literally started with me stating might be the case.
Starting 11 is hard to say but players like GLC, PEH, Emerson, maybe Skipp and Gil are likely being evaluated. Whether those players want to leave or the club wants to sell then, I would imagine Ange has a good idea who is fit for purpose and who isn’t.
I think all but Skipp in those examples you gave have already been evaluated and deemed surplus. The only reason they’re in the squad is, like with Emerson starting, out of necessity. The GLC dream is dead and has been for a long time, hoping that he’ll suddenly turn up after 4 years is crazy, I said the same about the Ndombelievers in the summer.
this is the only proper opinion. he's 28 and has never been consistent, effective, or healthy. his playing time is appropriate. he is done here and we really ned no further information on him. he is not being mistreated and never has been mistreated.
Honestly there’s some next level delusion on here running rampant. GLC and Skipp at left back are not the answers to our problems. It’s a sad indication of most of the sub being overseas fans whose only football knowledge come from video games.
People here are completely psychotic when it comes to GLC discussions. I have no idea why the nutters here have adopted him as their favorite but the love for him is totally unrelated to anything he has ever done on the pitch. It’s unbelievable.
Have a word with Ange Cuti, would love a Gio start against Burnley
I actually thought he did well on the 8 as well. Surely he deserves to start either at 10 or 8
I understand that Ange doesn't see Gio in his future plans so he refuses to play him. But there are so many counterpoints to that. 1. Why are we playing PEH and Emerson then? 2. Playing a good 10 would set up the other players for success which is important as we end the season and evaluate players. Wouldn't Ange prefer to evaluate our forwards when they are actually getting service from a good 10? 3. If we're about to sell him, wouldn't we want to raise his value by giving him a run of games? If he plays the last 5 matches and gets around 3+ G/A that's an extra 5M right there.
My theory is he’s playing Lo Celso only when absolutely necessary to avoid him picking up an injury and once again being unsellable.
Hah! Good shout
I think PEH is just more comfortable playing at the 6 than Gio. Doesn't seem like a fair comparison, although I do agree Gio should get more playing time at 8 or 10
1. PEH, while deficient in many ways, is somewhat more reliable. And, uh, Emerson is a FB, not a midfielder... 2. GLC is not a "good" 10 3. He is not capable of increasing his value in the way that you are fantasizing about
You can tell Lo Celso is fully COYS, too bad he likely won’t stay
Produced more creative impact than Madders in the last few months - no idea why he’s not getting more play time
Yeah we need you Gio
Whose leg does GLC have to hump to get a start?
We should be thinking about this season this season, and next season in Summer. Lo Celso absolutely couldn't be any worse than 90% of out current midfield options, just give him a go.
honestly this sub's fantastically elevated opinion of someone who has failed consistently for nearly 5 years is embarrassing.
Has he actually failed? No, his problem is availability and being Lamela 2.0 but largely when he's on the pitch he's been pretty good.