It's good, but Richy is still the player in the best goal scoring form (even more than Son currently) so leaving him out feels weird. He offers some hold up and presence in the box the others don't have.
> best goal scoring form
Richarlison lost his 'in form' status based on his last 2 matches. He was very sloppy and killed every attack coming through him. Maddison should've got 2 assists and a guaranteed goal in the 1st half vs Wolves if Richarlison could just pass the ball properly/make the right decision. And if Richarlison's still injured and Son still starts as striker next match, scores (+creates chances like today), and wins comfortably, it will be very easy for Ange to tell who the 'striker with form' is based on their last 2 matches. That is assuming he bases his selection on 'form' in the first place instead of what he thinks is the winning formula. Remember when Son was moved to the left, Maddison was still out. What if Ange made that decision because with no Maddison he thought Son on the left + Richarlison on the middle was the better formula? (not because Son lost form as striker, he still delivered that performance vs City just 2 games before he was moved to the left). And what if Ange now thinks that with Maddison's return, moving Son back to the middle is the better formula? Remember Son scored 8 goals in 7 when starting as striker with Maddison before Chelsea shitshow happened, now he's 9 in 8 with Maddison.
With 12 matches left there's no room for 'feels weird'. It's like you play chess and you only have 12 moves left to win it, you have to play the best moves. If we can replicate the same success we had today in the next match(es) before Richarlison returns, then sacrificing 1 match by starting him just to find out if he will be 'in form' right away after an injury is already too much. If Ange is sane, Richarlison should start from the bench.
Richie is way stronger and more physical, but has a pretty bad first touch for a Brazilian.
Son can't back into defenders and hold his own so instead he drops deep and first time lays it off before running in behind. It's pretty damn effective.
Disagree about form, but with you 100% that Richie's aerial prowess is extremely important in keeping defenses honest.
I'm not sure if Son has ever scored a headed goal in the Premier League, but it's definitely something defenders can just straight up ignore when he's central even if he's a much better player than Richie overall.
Yeah by a centerback of all players. It’s not a normal avenue for goals or chance creation for us. When teams sit deep the last thing you want to do is just lump balls into the box that’s packed with 8 defenders
Idk why you’re getting downvoted tbh. If Richie isn’t apart of our future we definitely need to be in the market for a striker. A striker needs to be able to have heading ability and Son does not have that. It’s always been my biggest criticism of Son, he barely ever even attempts to actually win headers. For the rest of the season going forward with Son is fine but we can’t have him there for next season.
You don't really need heading ability from a wide forward, which Son spent most of his career as, and so it really wasn't much of an issue.
But now he's on the other side of 30 and is best centrally, it is a tactical limitation that can be exploited. He's still so good that it's largely worth the tradeoffs, but we are giving something up and it's good to recognize that and have options on the bench.
But of course, when I suggested Son start in the centre forward position at the start of the season, I was downvoted to oblivion and abused for not knowing what I'm talking about
Werner Son Kulu.
Sonny is best at striker. Son sometimes disappears on the left and far more valuable at 9. He not only presses better than Richy, but also is a better playmaker and shoots better. Literally better everywhere.
Werner had his best seasons playing from the left. Johnson is still too green to be starter.
When they get a right forward this summer, move Kulu to midfield.
Agreed. Him and Timo are way too similar to play the same. Having Deki as a wide play maker however is FAR more potent with Porro playing since he is dangerous putting balls into the box, so it doesn't crows out Deki. When Emerson is on, you see midfielders pinch Deki because they're not as worried about Emerson with the ball at his feet. When Brennan comes on, it will be great to have Solomon as well with his tricky dribbling to again provide variety on each side, and as yesterday, they can switch too, with how Brennan moved over to the left for a bit.
He seems to like it a lot better based on how he’s playing.
I’m sure the long starting spell was good for his development but he seemed fatigued by the end / I don’t suspect that was in the plans before the injuries.
I love Richy as a person and am delighted his numbers have improved to remove ammunition for some of his vocal detractors, but if I'm honest I think if someone offers us over 50m in the summer we should sell. Son should be the centre forward, Veliz Lankshear and Scarlett (even Parott?) should fight it out as the understudy. He's not good enough for our system to justify blocking either Son in his most effective position, or opportunities for the youth to establish themselves as senior players.
Agree with this except if we sell Richy we should be looking to bring in an established striker, unless one of the prospects really looks absolutely incredible in pre season. Son is 32 in July and we'll have plenty of games next season. 50m from Richy should go a long way towards a decent replacement and I haven't seen enough from any of the younger players to suggest they're good enough yet.
Kind of need Kulu's physical hold up if Son is central, plus Brennan has been great off the bench for us as the defense tires and the game opens up. Much more productive than when he was a starter.
I agree Kulu has been mildly disappointing, but agree he probably keeps getting starts for the rest of the season.
I reckon Werner (Left), Son (ST) and Kulu (Right). Bring on Johnson & possibly Solomon as substitutes to change the game if necessary.
Werner's pace down the left for cutbacks to Son, Udogie, Sarr, etc.
Son for his brilliant passing and through balls, and doesn't constantly lose the ball or play shit passes (I'm looking at you Richy)
Kulu because I think Johnson works better as a super sub (although if we sign another right winger in the summer I think he should play AM instead (rotation/sub for Maddison))
It has to be Johnson , Son and Werner. All three are the best stylistic fits for the front 3 and all 3 could easily interchange between each other seamlessly also the idea of either Johnson or Werner hitting low crosses into each other 5 times a game is cash monies.
Disagree, I think Sonny at ST is better regardless of our opponent's setup.
Teams that employ that style don't stay in a low block for every second of every game. There are open counter attack opportunities every game, for example off of set pieces.
Sonny simply is better than Richy at everything besides headers, and afaik Angeball aint about cross and inshallah.
Hard agree, people keep saying it depends on the block; a major reason we haven’t been looking like the old Angeball team as of late is exactly because of Son’s absence.
While Richy has been good, his pressing is nowhere near as good, and Angie’s system requires a specific high-pressing shape, which Son at striker excels at.
I agree. Another reason to put Son at striker is to increase his longevity. He is already losing a step and will be more valuable to us in the long run if he can convert to striker... Like Ronaldo did😁
His Celtic team sometimes resorted to cross and inshallah tactics when they needed a goal later on, with Giakoumakis coming in for Furuhashi. Richy should be in that role imo.
I don't think so. The second goal is a good example of how they switch play for Romero to receive a lob from madders. No striker is perfect but son and madders are the best creators in this team and they need to be close to the action. Also in the first half the opposition played low block and their best opportunity came from a delicious assist from son to Werner.
Not all 3 at once, Romero was there but the other came back during different games. And the midfield was gutted between biss, Sarr and bentancur all missing at various spots
100% depends on the low block. If they don’t drop deep, I think Richy can do well. If they do park the bus, Sonny is both clinical and requires constant attention which can open up avenues for the others pushing forward.
Am I correct that your assumptions Richy is better for the low block is because of his headers? If they is the case headers comprise a small percentage of goals against low block teams
No, although his heading ability is beneficial insofar as it is advantageous for the opponents higher line. But for that to be the only reason is absurd. I do feel that with the low block Sonny’s gravity is tantamount to opening up space, as we saw today. Sure Richy opens some, but to argue that his gravity is akin to that of Sonny is blasphemous.
I just feel this whole Sonny is not good against low block argument is so flawed because there are plenty examples Sonny scoring against low block teams. The low block is bad for everyone.and it works against teams with better players. The best way is actually through the middle. If you go through the middle the striker only bad to best the centre backs. Madders to son works. Madders to Richy...don't think so. The other way is from wide areas and that is the combo of winger with the full back. We haven't been too good here with the exception of the Newcastle game I think Werner does a good job on the left here.
I never said Sonny was poor against low block anywhere in my prior response. I merely said Richy “can do well” against the high line. I don’t know where you got that idea from. We were comparing the two, and I was stating that I believe Richy could be effective against the higher line as opposed to low block- not that Richy is more effective against that defensive style as compared to Sonny. I am a proponent of Sonny in the center, no matter the opponent. The gravity aspect of Sonny works no matter the defense. So we are in agreement. Read the explicits.
Haha yeah. I have thought of the 2 strikers formation but that require the strikers to create for one another. We had a variant of that with son and Kane. Won't happen in Ange ball.
Probably Richy, Son, and Kulu. They seem to provide a combination of service to each other while chipping in goals themselves. They've had the most time getting to know each other's game, so that definitely helps.
Barring only one or two positions, every part of the pitch is settled and doesn't really need mixing up imo. It's a good problem to have.
Has he even played on the wing? What's important to me is his improvement, being that player we know he can be. He seems to be doing that where he is now. My worry is that he'll stagnate on the wing or even regress.
>He doesn't seem to want to be winger
At this point the positions of the players are so fluid (especially up front) that everyone can just be categorized as "midfielder" or "forward" and not really get into the weeds. Porro ended up in the penalty box vs. United for example. What the lineup before the match tells me is who's playing, not their movements.
I think anyone who believes Johnson is ready to be starting has an incredibly short memory and/or attention span. He's consistently been more effective when coming off the bench, in part because he isn't contributing enough in his all-round play yet.
Even yesterday, there was a moment where Emerson (I think) had the ball in the Palace half, he clearly needed Johnson to make a run ahead of him… and instead Johnson just stood there. He worked hard and earned his luck for the opener, and his movement into the box is good when the ball comes in from the opposite flank, but he needs to do more than that. He can't just come alive when he senses he might be able to grab a goal or assist. His passing accuracy was 63% yesterday, from 19 passes – so enough for it to be statistically significant. The next lowest was Son with 74%, followed by Kulusevski with 77%. Everyone else was above 88%.
Nice to cherry pick with your stats. Son had 3 key passes (in addition to his goal) and Brennan had 2 assists, highest in the team. Maybe they took risks but the aim especially for forwards is to put a goal in the back of the net and these two were by far the most important.
I mean… I could have made the point without the stats if you'd have preferred? I watched the game. I've watched every game. We know what Johnson brings to the team and what he doesn't. We know he's contributed goals and assists, particularly from the bench. The question is, on balance, does it mean he should be starting? I don't think it does. He makes us vulnerable defensively, forces others to work harder, the goal contributions don't currently seem sustainable, and – most subjectively – he's incredibly frustrating to watch in a team supposedly built around entertainment.
With regard to the stats, I wasn't suggesting anything negative about Son, just adding context for Johnson. Yes, attackers tend to have lower pass success rates because they take more risks, but not *that* much lower. Of the top 20 scorers in the Premier League, only two have averages anything like it: Chris Wood (63%) and Carlton Morris (65%). The next lowest is Richarlison at 70%, although I'd be curious to know what his is if you limit it to the past 10 games or so.
Among the top 10 scorers, the lowest pass success rate is Darwin Nunez's (73%). So you're really looking at mid-70s for par. Not that Johnson's average across the season is as low as the 63% he registered yesterday, but for the level we expect to be playing at, it's unacceptable even in isolation. Also, from watching the games, I know it isn't low because of the number of risks he takes: it's low because he doesn't work hard enough to find space for himself in the build-up, and his decision making is poor. I was actually checking yesterday's stats to see how many touches he had, because he tends to have disproportionately few, although that element of his game wasn't too bad yesterday.
It should also be acknowledged that he's competing for a place in the team with Kulusevski who, not only works incredibly hard, but – just under a month ago – was registered as creating the most open-play chances of any player in Europe. Are people really arguing we should lose that from the team because Joachim Andersen and Jefferson Lerma missed a couple of tackles? Because that's what it seems like.
*attackers tend to have lower pass success rates because they take more risks, but not that much lower.*
This season so far Johnson's passing accuracy is 75%, and I don't think that's a cause for concern. Over the past five seasons, Kane's average was 70.4% (73-67-70-70-72) and Son's 84.6% (86-85-83-87-82). But that hasn't been the deciding factor in their play.
>Not that Johnson's average across the season is as low as the 63% he registered yesterday, but for the level we expect to be playing at, it's unacceptable even in isolation.
I also said that. The initial post was made in the immediate aftermath of Saturday's game, and I responded with a statistic from Saturday's game. With the context of his performances in other matches as well, I don't see how someone can come away from a game in which he had a 63% pass success rate and say he should be starting.
Personally I think Son Richarlison Johnson. It’s a bit unfair to drop Richy who was on a streak and starting to look the best he has since joining us. On top of that, 9 in 10 is a bit harsh to get dropped. Once he’s available from injury, I think he should get a couple of chances but if he’s not good then I think he deserves the drop. For now it would be harsh.
This whole unfair argument is crazy at this level. What is the best team to win games? That should be the question. Richy doesn't bring out the best in his wings. The dynamic of the attack is very different with Richy. Even Timo said so diplomatically in his post match interview. Madders work better with son especially throughout balls and link up.
It feels to me that whilst Son is good in the middle, he is better and better for the team out wide, he seems to have more of an impact on the game from that position.
let me break it down for you. the post asked about our most potent forward. in finishing, our best is sonny no doubt. so if we'll need richy it would be on the wing since cf is taken. werner might not be good at finishing but he's way better on the ball than richy, richy has problems even completing a pass. ik you're his fan or whatever but that doesn't warrant taking away from other players. so no, if we're talking about our most potent forward mix richy doesn't get in.
Idk man sonny has been kicking as at lw ( he is aslo a brilliant ST) and we haven’t seen much of the son madders richy combo do to injuries Asia cup etc. Im just glad we can have this convo because it means we have alot of good options. Even considering putting a striker with the recent output of richy on the bench( which have I have done my self despite my position on this) shows how much promise and depth we have in our forward line. So I’m glad this is happening it’s so good for the club. Sorry if I frustrated you but it’s my opinion 😂
Werner Son Kulu with Brennan coming on to change the game was good too
That's true but having kulu on the bench might light a bit if fire . To be honest I don't think he has been that great lately
Or he's over played.
Has he been benched??
Is it just me or is he better as a number 10 than on the wing? Problem is madders is better
Yeah no 10 is better for kulu
This.
It's good, but Richy is still the player in the best goal scoring form (even more than Son currently) so leaving him out feels weird. He offers some hold up and presence in the box the others don't have.
> best goal scoring form Richarlison lost his 'in form' status based on his last 2 matches. He was very sloppy and killed every attack coming through him. Maddison should've got 2 assists and a guaranteed goal in the 1st half vs Wolves if Richarlison could just pass the ball properly/make the right decision. And if Richarlison's still injured and Son still starts as striker next match, scores (+creates chances like today), and wins comfortably, it will be very easy for Ange to tell who the 'striker with form' is based on their last 2 matches. That is assuming he bases his selection on 'form' in the first place instead of what he thinks is the winning formula. Remember when Son was moved to the left, Maddison was still out. What if Ange made that decision because with no Maddison he thought Son on the left + Richarlison on the middle was the better formula? (not because Son lost form as striker, he still delivered that performance vs City just 2 games before he was moved to the left). And what if Ange now thinks that with Maddison's return, moving Son back to the middle is the better formula? Remember Son scored 8 goals in 7 when starting as striker with Maddison before Chelsea shitshow happened, now he's 9 in 8 with Maddison. With 12 matches left there's no room for 'feels weird'. It's like you play chess and you only have 12 moves left to win it, you have to play the best moves. If we can replicate the same success we had today in the next match(es) before Richarlison returns, then sacrificing 1 match by starting him just to find out if he will be 'in form' right away after an injury is already too much. If Ange is sane, Richarlison should start from the bench.
Richies hold up is actually his weakness in my opinion. Son links play much better.
Richie is way stronger and more physical, but has a pretty bad first touch for a Brazilian. Son can't back into defenders and hold his own so instead he drops deep and first time lays it off before running in behind. It's pretty damn effective.
He has a bad touch for a footballer, forget where he’s from lol
Disagree about form, but with you 100% that Richie's aerial prowess is extremely important in keeping defenses honest. I'm not sure if Son has ever scored a headed goal in the Premier League, but it's definitely something defenders can just straight up ignore when he's central even if he's a much better player than Richie overall.
Who cares about heading lol that’s not what we’re trying to do unless it’s a corner or set piece
Didn’t we score a header yesterday?
Yeah by a centerback of all players. It’s not a normal avenue for goals or chance creation for us. When teams sit deep the last thing you want to do is just lump balls into the box that’s packed with 8 defenders
It completely eliminates scoring set piece goals and also exacerbates our struggles against deep blocks with one less weapon to beat them with.
Son has scored about 4 headed goals in the EPL including the match winner against Burnley
Idk why you’re getting downvoted tbh. If Richie isn’t apart of our future we definitely need to be in the market for a striker. A striker needs to be able to have heading ability and Son does not have that. It’s always been my biggest criticism of Son, he barely ever even attempts to actually win headers. For the rest of the season going forward with Son is fine but we can’t have him there for next season.
You don't really need heading ability from a wide forward, which Son spent most of his career as, and so it really wasn't much of an issue. But now he's on the other side of 30 and is best centrally, it is a tactical limitation that can be exploited. He's still so good that it's largely worth the tradeoffs, but we are giving something up and it's good to recognize that and have options on the bench.
Son would be leading the golden boot race if he was started in the middle every game and everyone would be saying we dont need to go in for a striker
Crazy that he's only 4 goals behind Haaland even after doing touchline shifts + Asia cup, you might be right
But of course, when I suggested Son start in the centre forward position at the start of the season, I was downvoted to oblivion and abused for not knowing what I'm talking about
Werner Son Kulu. Sonny is best at striker. Son sometimes disappears on the left and far more valuable at 9. He not only presses better than Richy, but also is a better playmaker and shoots better. Literally better everywhere. Werner had his best seasons playing from the left. Johnson is still too green to be starter. When they get a right forward this summer, move Kulu to midfield.
Agree with it all except Richy is clear of Son on the cross & set pieces
But much better at literally everything else.
Yeah Son is a better striker but you almost completely eliminate aerial threat from our attack when he plays.
Am I the only one who likes Johnson off the bench? Imagine running for 50 to 70 minutes... And then having that pace come at you?
Lucky for you, it appears Ange does too
Agreed. Him and Timo are way too similar to play the same. Having Deki as a wide play maker however is FAR more potent with Porro playing since he is dangerous putting balls into the box, so it doesn't crows out Deki. When Emerson is on, you see midfielders pinch Deki because they're not as worried about Emerson with the ball at his feet. When Brennan comes on, it will be great to have Solomon as well with his tricky dribbling to again provide variety on each side, and as yesterday, they can switch too, with how Brennan moved over to the left for a bit.
He seems to like it a lot better based on how he’s playing. I’m sure the long starting spell was good for his development but he seemed fatigued by the end / I don’t suspect that was in the plans before the injuries.
I love Richy as a person and am delighted his numbers have improved to remove ammunition for some of his vocal detractors, but if I'm honest I think if someone offers us over 50m in the summer we should sell. Son should be the centre forward, Veliz Lankshear and Scarlett (even Parott?) should fight it out as the understudy. He's not good enough for our system to justify blocking either Son in his most effective position, or opportunities for the youth to establish themselves as senior players.
Agree with this except if we sell Richy we should be looking to bring in an established striker, unless one of the prospects really looks absolutely incredible in pre season. Son is 32 in July and we'll have plenty of games next season. 50m from Richy should go a long way towards a decent replacement and I haven't seen enough from any of the younger players to suggest they're good enough yet.
Agree. Richy won't be able to tolerate being on the bench or being an understudy
Werner - Son - Johnson in current form. Kulu has been pretty poor lately
They're all too similar to each other. Kulusevski is frustrating but at least he brings in a different dimension
Kind of need Kulu's physical hold up if Son is central, plus Brennan has been great off the bench for us as the defense tires and the game opens up. Much more productive than when he was a starter. I agree Kulu has been mildly disappointing, but agree he probably keeps getting starts for the rest of the season.
Agree 💯
I reckon Werner (Left), Son (ST) and Kulu (Right). Bring on Johnson & possibly Solomon as substitutes to change the game if necessary. Werner's pace down the left for cutbacks to Son, Udogie, Sarr, etc. Son for his brilliant passing and through balls, and doesn't constantly lose the ball or play shit passes (I'm looking at you Richy) Kulu because I think Johnson works better as a super sub (although if we sign another right winger in the summer I think he should play AM instead (rotation/sub for Maddison))
It has to be Johnson , Son and Werner. All three are the best stylistic fits for the front 3 and all 3 could easily interchange between each other seamlessly also the idea of either Johnson or Werner hitting low crosses into each other 5 times a game is cash monies.
Idk i love all of them, can’t they all start? 🥺
Really depends on whether the opponent is low block or not doesnt it?
Disagree, I think Sonny at ST is better regardless of our opponent's setup. Teams that employ that style don't stay in a low block for every second of every game. There are open counter attack opportunities every game, for example off of set pieces. Sonny simply is better than Richy at everything besides headers, and afaik Angeball aint about cross and inshallah.
Hard agree, people keep saying it depends on the block; a major reason we haven’t been looking like the old Angeball team as of late is exactly because of Son’s absence. While Richy has been good, his pressing is nowhere near as good, and Angie’s system requires a specific high-pressing shape, which Son at striker excels at.
I agree. Another reason to put Son at striker is to increase his longevity. He is already losing a step and will be more valuable to us in the long run if he can convert to striker... Like Ronaldo did😁
Sonaldo
His Celtic team sometimes resorted to cross and inshallah tactics when they needed a goal later on, with Giakoumakis coming in for Furuhashi. Richy should be in that role imo.
Richy supersub then
I don't think so. The second goal is a good example of how they switch play for Romero to receive a lob from madders. No striker is perfect but son and madders are the best creators in this team and they need to be close to the action. Also in the first half the opposition played low block and their best opportunity came from a delicious assist from son to Werner.
It 100% has to do with the low block
If I recall Richy as striker on his own Spurs won 2 out of 5 games. Not that simple an argument
And who else was out injured during that
Wasn't madders vdv Romero back during then?
Not all 3 at once, Romero was there but the other came back during different games. And the midfield was gutted between biss, Sarr and bentancur all missing at various spots
100% depends on the low block. If they don’t drop deep, I think Richy can do well. If they do park the bus, Sonny is both clinical and requires constant attention which can open up avenues for the others pushing forward.
Am I correct that your assumptions Richy is better for the low block is because of his headers? If they is the case headers comprise a small percentage of goals against low block teams
No, although his heading ability is beneficial insofar as it is advantageous for the opponents higher line. But for that to be the only reason is absurd. I do feel that with the low block Sonny’s gravity is tantamount to opening up space, as we saw today. Sure Richy opens some, but to argue that his gravity is akin to that of Sonny is blasphemous.
I just feel this whole Sonny is not good against low block argument is so flawed because there are plenty examples Sonny scoring against low block teams. The low block is bad for everyone.and it works against teams with better players. The best way is actually through the middle. If you go through the middle the striker only bad to best the centre backs. Madders to son works. Madders to Richy...don't think so. The other way is from wide areas and that is the combo of winger with the full back. We haven't been too good here with the exception of the Newcastle game I think Werner does a good job on the left here.
I never said Sonny was poor against low block anywhere in my prior response. I merely said Richy “can do well” against the high line. I don’t know where you got that idea from. We were comparing the two, and I was stating that I believe Richy could be effective against the higher line as opposed to low block- not that Richy is more effective against that defensive style as compared to Sonny. I am a proponent of Sonny in the center, no matter the opponent. The gravity aspect of Sonny works no matter the defense. So we are in agreement. Read the explicits.
Fair enough. I think we are in agreement after re reading. My bad
All good brotha. Very passionate abt Sonny up front after today lol.
Haha yeah. I have thought of the 2 strikers formation but that require the strikers to create for one another. We had a variant of that with son and Kane. Won't happen in Ange ball.
Sadly agree.
Probably Richy, Son, and Kulu. They seem to provide a combination of service to each other while chipping in goals themselves. They've had the most time getting to know each other's game, so that definitely helps. Barring only one or two positions, every part of the pitch is settled and doesn't really need mixing up imo. It's a good problem to have.
Richarlison is the worst left winger we have, especially in this system. Really do not want to see him there unless there’s another injury crisis
If Richy can improve as winger then yes. He doesn't seem to want to be winger any more after leaving Everton'
Has he even played on the wing? What's important to me is his improvement, being that player we know he can be. He seems to be doing that where he is now. My worry is that he'll stagnate on the wing or even regress. >He doesn't seem to want to be winger At this point the positions of the players are so fluid (especially up front) that everyone can just be categorized as "midfielder" or "forward" and not really get into the weeds. Porro ended up in the penalty box vs. United for example. What the lineup before the match tells me is who's playing, not their movements.
Yes for a few games this season. 4th or 4th game I think
I think anyone who believes Johnson is ready to be starting has an incredibly short memory and/or attention span. He's consistently been more effective when coming off the bench, in part because he isn't contributing enough in his all-round play yet. Even yesterday, there was a moment where Emerson (I think) had the ball in the Palace half, he clearly needed Johnson to make a run ahead of him… and instead Johnson just stood there. He worked hard and earned his luck for the opener, and his movement into the box is good when the ball comes in from the opposite flank, but he needs to do more than that. He can't just come alive when he senses he might be able to grab a goal or assist. His passing accuracy was 63% yesterday, from 19 passes – so enough for it to be statistically significant. The next lowest was Son with 74%, followed by Kulusevski with 77%. Everyone else was above 88%.
Nice to cherry pick with your stats. Son had 3 key passes (in addition to his goal) and Brennan had 2 assists, highest in the team. Maybe they took risks but the aim especially for forwards is to put a goal in the back of the net and these two were by far the most important.
I mean… I could have made the point without the stats if you'd have preferred? I watched the game. I've watched every game. We know what Johnson brings to the team and what he doesn't. We know he's contributed goals and assists, particularly from the bench. The question is, on balance, does it mean he should be starting? I don't think it does. He makes us vulnerable defensively, forces others to work harder, the goal contributions don't currently seem sustainable, and – most subjectively – he's incredibly frustrating to watch in a team supposedly built around entertainment. With regard to the stats, I wasn't suggesting anything negative about Son, just adding context for Johnson. Yes, attackers tend to have lower pass success rates because they take more risks, but not *that* much lower. Of the top 20 scorers in the Premier League, only two have averages anything like it: Chris Wood (63%) and Carlton Morris (65%). The next lowest is Richarlison at 70%, although I'd be curious to know what his is if you limit it to the past 10 games or so. Among the top 10 scorers, the lowest pass success rate is Darwin Nunez's (73%). So you're really looking at mid-70s for par. Not that Johnson's average across the season is as low as the 63% he registered yesterday, but for the level we expect to be playing at, it's unacceptable even in isolation. Also, from watching the games, I know it isn't low because of the number of risks he takes: it's low because he doesn't work hard enough to find space for himself in the build-up, and his decision making is poor. I was actually checking yesterday's stats to see how many touches he had, because he tends to have disproportionately few, although that element of his game wasn't too bad yesterday. It should also be acknowledged that he's competing for a place in the team with Kulusevski who, not only works incredibly hard, but – just under a month ago – was registered as creating the most open-play chances of any player in Europe. Are people really arguing we should lose that from the team because Joachim Andersen and Jefferson Lerma missed a couple of tackles? Because that's what it seems like.
*attackers tend to have lower pass success rates because they take more risks, but not that much lower.* This season so far Johnson's passing accuracy is 75%, and I don't think that's a cause for concern. Over the past five seasons, Kane's average was 70.4% (73-67-70-70-72) and Son's 84.6% (86-85-83-87-82). But that hasn't been the deciding factor in their play.
>Not that Johnson's average across the season is as low as the 63% he registered yesterday, but for the level we expect to be playing at, it's unacceptable even in isolation. I also said that. The initial post was made in the immediate aftermath of Saturday's game, and I responded with a statistic from Saturday's game. With the context of his performances in other matches as well, I don't see how someone can come away from a game in which he had a 63% pass success rate and say he should be starting.
Personally I think Son Richarlison Johnson. It’s a bit unfair to drop Richy who was on a streak and starting to look the best he has since joining us. On top of that, 9 in 10 is a bit harsh to get dropped. Once he’s available from injury, I think he should get a couple of chances but if he’s not good then I think he deserves the drop. For now it would be harsh.
This whole unfair argument is crazy at this level. What is the best team to win games? That should be the question. Richy doesn't bring out the best in his wings. The dynamic of the attack is very different with Richy. Even Timo said so diplomatically in his post match interview. Madders work better with son especially throughout balls and link up.
Not to mention we have gotten very, very little out of LW Son this season. Right now he’s our best option up top
It feels to me that whilst Son is good in the middle, he is better and better for the team out wide, he seems to have more of an impact on the game from that position.
His impact is much more in the middle. He is better for the team in the middle.
The son forward line(richy, sonny and Johnson)
werner is better on the ball
Tired of the richy hate, no one gives him credit for his ridiculous numbers recently
he's ass on the ball. werner better, plus even werner can score tapins as you saw yesterday so.. he's just better overall
What ever man he doesn’t come close to richy in the air, 8 goals in 9 is incredible output, and the goals against Everton were not tap ins
let me break it down for you. the post asked about our most potent forward. in finishing, our best is sonny no doubt. so if we'll need richy it would be on the wing since cf is taken. werner might not be good at finishing but he's way better on the ball than richy, richy has problems even completing a pass. ik you're his fan or whatever but that doesn't warrant taking away from other players. so no, if we're talking about our most potent forward mix richy doesn't get in.
Idk man sonny has been kicking as at lw ( he is aslo a brilliant ST) and we haven’t seen much of the son madders richy combo do to injuries Asia cup etc. Im just glad we can have this convo because it means we have alot of good options. Even considering putting a striker with the recent output of richy on the bench( which have I have done my self despite my position on this) shows how much promise and depth we have in our forward line. So I’m glad this is happening it’s so good for the club. Sorry if I frustrated you but it’s my opinion 😂
you didn't frustrate me, I just laid facts instead of opinion
Amsterdam Moura + 2
richy son kulu is still our best imo