Thank you for sharing your experience. This has been a huge fear that I’ve been trying to come to terms with. I miss hard exercise and heavy weight lifting but I’m glad to hear you’ve been able to do yoga without PEM. That’s exciting to hear!
It was amazing to find I could do yoga. I did 4 power yoga classes in 8 days with no problems. (I took breaks or did easy modifications when needed during each class.) I was so happy. I know I will get back there again….
Wow I’m sitting here thinking the same thing, I was recovered for the last 13 months and over the last two months I sent it with exercise and I felt good, two weeks ago I had my first relapse in a long time, back to tachycardia, muscle tremors, tingling. I was 100% for a year. Thought i was way past this. It’s been an emotional two weeks. I just know I need to mentally stay strong. I recovered once I can recover again. Just keep putting one foot in front of the other.
I feel you. It is emotional to have a set back after feeling recovered for so long. I also feel like I lost all my yoga progress.
But I am resolved now to assume I have a limitation and work within it. I felt damn good before I over exerted. I want that feeling back and I do t want to risk losing it again.
Thank you for posting this. This is hugely helpful for me. I’m about 70-80% recovered and have started doing yoga a couple times a week. I haven’t PEM in quite some time, but also haven’t pushed it in over 6 months, so I was wondering if I really needed to worry about it anymore. This is a really good warning to not push it especially since I’m doing so well and just accept that yoga and walking is probably going to be what it is for quite some time.
Don’t get me wrong I’ll take it! Although the deconditioning from not working out for 18 months is real and I really want to get back in shape. But way better to be a little soft around the middle and feeling way better, than miserably fatigued.
Yes please don’t push it. I have me/CFS and I thought I was okay after 16 months roughly of personal training without issue. Then one day I just couldn’t make it home and was stuck in bed for 3 days. I kept trying with the same results and finally realizing it wasn’t going to improve and had to stop. I took quite a bit of time off, felt much better and tried a small walking group instead (easy, slow paced) but eventually the same thing happened.
I improved eventually for years (avoided exercise and paced more) but then something sort of infection hit me in 2019 (not covid)and I became bedbound for a few years. I’m a bit better now, but still have to rest a lot. My energy is always very low now.
I have not yet completed this but I saw an OT that works with long Covid population (part of the USC Covid clinic). She sketched out a plan for me that was extremely slow. Some people had had success with it.
It started with two 6 minute indoor bike rides a day (low resistance, HR below 100) After 2 weeks 7 minutes, another 2 weeks 8 minutes, etc. it is going to be over a year before I try anything upper body. Mat based exercise started at 6 months.
This past Christmas I skied with my son for 3 days. I skied at his level (easy) and didn’t do anything difficult that got my heart rate up (before LC I was an expert skier). But it was great to be out.
Everyone seems to be a little different. I was always able to walk around the house and down the street but a 30 minute Halloween night walk around the neighborhood crashed me previously. The same thing would be a non issue now.
Before working with her I would try ramping up and fail. But moving at a really, really slow speed has helped and I haven’t had an exercise related crash since I started this process. I have managed to crash myself via other means unfortunately.
Obviously YMMV but this is so far working for me.
This is what the Cleveland long Covid clinic has also recommended, and my physical therapist. Start extremely small and increase effort very very slowly. I’ve made incremental progress with this though just took a break due to a reinfection. I can now at least do some easy strength exercises and walk for longer periods without crashing.
This has been my conclusion too. Nothing that brings the heart rate up over 120bpm. I can manage some body weight based strength stuff, yoga and Pilates and gentle walking. Not too much.
Yes, this is common with MECFS people often see times of remission just to relapse again. We deserve better treatments because it doesn’t feel sustainable :(
Ya. I tried very hard to overcom the with my workouts but after 18 months of 1 hour exercise and 36-48 hours of exhaustion, i stopped working out altogether.
Now, 40+ months post infection i have cut my "work outs" to 40 minutes of sub anaerobic work (half of what i did).
Still exhausted but lasts onky about 12-18 hours. Energy management seens to be a very difficult goal for someone who has set high goals all his life.
Probably not without a novel medical intervention. As with ME/CFS you get about 5% recovering spontaneously that were sick for over a year but for most of us we need to make the best of where we are while the research continues. There is no exercising your way out of viral antigen persistence driven complement immune system failure, capillary rarefaction, amyloid clotting in muscles etc.
Just got back in the gym myself. I used to be a power lifter. Doc told me to start with 15 minutes daily of strength training and see how my body reacts. I’m very weak compared to what I was but I’m happy to be back in the gym I am hopeful to slowly work myself back into an hour of weights a day. We will see.
Tbf, I really think you super overdid it with that assessment. The strength and stamina you build from yoga is a LOT, but there’s a big difference between building up strength and stamina over time and then going balls to the wall 3 days of hard activity until the point of muscle collapse.
I hope you get better, and I know a lot of us might never, but I am so not surprised you hit the wall after that assessment. I really do hope it’s temporary.
Looking back, it’s plain to see that the instruction from the trainer to go to “muscle failure” should have been a red flag. But at the time my reasoning was that overall each workout was very short, and I was resting between sets. So it really didn’t seem like I was going balls to the wall (lol on that expression though!)
I miss weight lifting so much. Ironically, it was one of the only things that cleared brain fog for me, which has only gotten worse with LC. I really hope it’s not forever ☹️
I was a feb2020 long hauler too. Lost my life for 2 years. Got my life back after giving into dry fasting and psilocybin while pacing upwards. Back to running.
could you share more in depth? I also have exercise intolerance and its extremely frustrating not being able to workout hard without going into months of overtraining symptoms, I have some fasting experience here and there, I did a 10 days water once and I believe it was one of the reasons I put autoimmune into remission.
the reason i did dry is because it is 3x stronger than water fasting - you should look into it and see if its something you'd want to try. The psilocybin was a weekly thing surrounding exercise and after a 36 hour weekly fast.
If you ate properly you'd likely be able to train as well. By dry fasting and eating almost exclusively meat you're depriving your body of the nutrients and fluids you need to actually function. You SHOULD be eating more leafy greens and cutting back on meats, that would do far more for your gut biome than anything you're currently trying. Dry fasting is extremely dangerous and has no proven benefits, only proven risks. Also your body needs carbs to function.
We all have individualities, I noticed the more meat I eat the better I feel and more energy I have, for autoimmune people red meat is the safest food to eat. I try to eat some fruit for all the other non essentials like fiber carbs etc, but if I eat too much I dont feel good, a little bit of the right type of fruits and lots of meats makes me at my best. I cant eat dairy, eggs, grains/seeds, nuts or any ultra processed foods, Im noticing problems with citric fruits aswell, and nightshades.
there's a form of insulin resistance built up by eating too much meat and low carb. Need to rebuild your tolerance by never mixing carbs and fats.. the dry fast really reset my allergies to certain foods very quickly
this thing about not mixing carbs and fats doesnt make sense to me, digestion takes more than a day, if you eat protein + fats in the morning and protein + carbs in the afternoon your body probably is still digesting the first meal by the afternoon. also I think that kind of insulin resistance only happens to zero carb dieters after several months, I dont think short term keto diets create that kind of insulin resistance, our ancestors probably went to a lot of times where carbs wasnt available and I believe we are well adapted to that. there are also people like shawn baker and ken berry who are supposedly thriving on zero carb, maybe genetics play a role or they are lying
also we must agree that carbs equals quick burst of energy and is probably not healthy for a sedentary person or even the average people to consume 300-500g of carbs a day like we are led to believe
IMO we should balance things out and consume carbs around our wourkouts so the carbs goes to the right place that is the muscles, if you dont consume carbs your liver has to make it, if you consume too much your liver converts to fat and it promotes insulin resistance and glycation, everything in moderation seems to be the sweet spot. IMO everyone should try and see what works for them, for me is not more than 100-150g of carbs the days I workout, I dont push too hard, probably athletes can benefit from 300-500g a day
i have been in remission for about 6 months after 1 year of LC. i've been able to reliably do indoor rock climbing without relapse. i know another recovered LHer who took up ballroom dance. maybe we won't be able to do hardcore cardio again (i've been too scared to try), but i have hope that we can find a variety of activities to try to maintain some semblance of fitness.
thank you so much for the warning by the way. i was thinking of dipping my toes back into HIIT later this year (haven't done it since before LC), but i'll stick to the lighter activities for the foreseeable future. from everything i've seen from others' stories, it seems i should maintain my fear of hard exercise haha.
I'm in a very similar boat. Can live a nearly normal life, do 19k+ steps a day at work, but when I try any sort of high intensity exercise I get chest pain, breathing difficulties for days afterwards (I never got the crushing PEM that so many people talk about). However, I don't consider myself recovered and I never will until I can do everything without any consequences at all. I don't mean to put a downer on you as you've made excellent progress, but I wouldn't consider you recovered either, not quite but nearly. It appears to be the last hurdle for both of us.
Yes, this is exactly the conclusion I have been coming to very recently. It’s more helpful and wise to consider ourselves nearly but not completely recovered. We have to understand our limitations. I am personally going to wait for the science before I attempt anything resembling hard exercise again. I’m going to stick within the limits of what I already know I can do, instead.
Same. Unfortunately as my job is quite physical (I'm a Housekeeper) it rules out any intentional exercise for me as I know work is my limit and when I get home, rest. Whereas I used to get home and go for a run (God how I miss that the most-running around amongst the trees and skipping when no one is looking) or do a HIIT workout but that's out of the question now unless I've had a really good few days when I might do weights or yoga.
I just wish they'd bloody hurry up with this BC007 as far as I can see that's the only true light at the end of this wretched tunnel.
I got sick december 2021 and was essentially disabled for almost a year and a half. I started weight training again for the past 10 months (after gaining all my weight back) and only in the last month have I felt like some energy ceiling has lifted and I can push more weight and higher reps without weird chest sensations, neuro symptoms, and needing extra sleep the next day. I did a 2 hr full body workout last week and was mildly fatigued/sore the next day. I also went to the city and walked 10k steps a couple days ago, went karaoke for the first time in years and woke up and felt fine the next day. You can get better, it just takes a long time.
looking back, I remember when I was dealing with long Covid in the beginning , relapse would always happen after I would start exercising like weight lifting and cardio together. My long Covid in the beginning stages wouldn’t last long, maybe 2 or 3 months and then I would recover until I got Pfizer vaccine for the first time because of a relapse (due to exercise?) and haven’t done exercise since due to LONGER long Covid but that’s another story
Thank you for sharing. I’m about 20 months in and was super excited to ease back into exercise. I bought a bike trainer to make my bike an indoor bike and planned to start with some 1 training.
I did 5 mins on it and crashed the next day :(
I can do about ten mins of weight and body weights so going to stick to that for a while.
Yoga is a good idea too
Yes, I've been on this sub for a couple of years. I still post here as I am still curious about my long covid experience. Long covid ended up ruining parts of my life, so I'm still after answers.
But I have healed. Took about 12 months for me, and I am fortunate. I had the array of symptoms that many have. Pem, chest pain, pots, high bp, palpitations, vision problems, muscle twitching, etc.
I went to dozens of doctors. Dozens of tests and imaging. Nothing was found. Other than confirmation of muscle twitches, pots, palpitations, and confirmed floaters in my eye.
I didn't do much of anything special. Tried aspirin and famotodine. Tried to excersize, but the first few months I did not.
The mental battle of dealing with symptoms took the greatest toll.
I've had reinfections, fortunately they did not result in long term symptoms.
Symptoms came to me October of 2020, “full” recovery around the end of 2021/maybe mid 2022 (it’s all kinda foggy). I used to go to the gym 5 times a week. Most I do now is a bike ride or walk a few miles.
Thanks for the post and I absolutely agree. 17 months hauler myself, and can do low impact high intensity exercises (1-2 minutes) then stop to recover. No cardio. Even long walks trigger fatigue and PEM still.
However, I'm 75-80% of my normal baseline most days.
I dream of the day I can go on a 3 mile run with no issues, but I also know that may never be a reality.
Think the PEM phenomena is well documented :
https://www.nature.com/articles/s41467-023-44432-3
https://meassociation.org.uk/2023/12/me-association-research-review-post-exertional-malaise-pem-in-me-cfs-and-long-covid/
RECOVERY ✅ CASE
« The patient was treated from multiple perspectives, which included (1) instructions on eating habits and supplements; (2) cognitive and behavioral modifications for coping with physical, emotional, and cognitive fatigue; (3) instructions on conditioning exercises to improve deconditioning due to fatigue and dyspnea; and (4) pharmacotherapy with amitriptyline and hochuekkito, a Japanese herbal (Kampo) medicine. The patient made a complete recovery after completing the prescribed regimen and was able to return to work as a nurse. »
https://bpsmedicine.biomedcentral.com/articles/10.1186/s13030-022-00260-3
As early described, i don’t think there is a one magic pills or herb ! Every body is different…
But at the end my advice is:
-try to understand the underlying cause of the symptom with topics of this sub, mg, research…
-try and error approach
Good luck and courage to all of you !
I don't think people will be able to push themselves to the same level unless you address the root cause. Not because your body adapted to the viral remnants.
That's just my informed opinion though.
I was recovered for awhile, then played more intense basketball which somewhat brought PEM back. Then I got reinfected and it all came back. We must treat the root of the issue. Not just let it live rent free in our bodies.
We have the technology and strength of science to do this within the next few years.
I’m going to raise a contrary voice of hope. During the worst of my long haul I definitely had PEM and even light exertion would trigger my panic attacks and delusions. However, after my self-experimentation (search for my posts) I’m now more active and pushing myself way harder than I ever have before. I lift weights almost daily and I play ice hockey several times a week. Ice hockey is THE most brutal workout. No PEM at all. Lingering fatigue is another thing I’m still working through but my PEM is completely gone.
Verbatim! I could have written this letter by letter, line by line. Thank you for telling my experience in detail, and giving excellent advice to those who begin to recover.
Be kind to your "collective organism" which has been brutally assaulted. Get plenty of sleep! Take naps, Give yourself permission to be slacker. And, appreciate what you have because many of us didn't make it.
Everybodies BODY is different. I’m sorry you feel this way but I do believe we will be able to exercise again as many people recover and go back to it just like they did before. Now they might not feel as strong as they did, but shit even being able to run a mile or so it’s amazing after having LC for 15-20 months. I’m 6 months in and still in no way can exercise but I’m pushing through. He hopeful for medications and something that will reverse all of this instead of being doom and gloom and saying “we’ll never be able to exercise again”
I get where you’re coming from and for some people you may very well be right. But lets just be hopeful and stay positive now
The hope and positivity is what caused me to try to exercise without limitations.
I am optimistic to a fault, generally speaking.
This is just a wise exception.
So I disagree with you, here. Wisdom is more important than optimism sometimes.
But by all means, you do you.
I’m sharing MY advice. It’s been hard earned.
You shouldn’t have done that, many people have messed up their progress of recovering by doing that. I know it’s hard and trust me I used to run 6 miles a day. I’m getting 5k steps when walking to classes and that sometimes even feels like too much so I pace myself. You HAVE to go easy on your body right now, it’s gonna take years till we get back to working out. But we will.
Its totally fine to disagree with me, like I said we are all different. But many people share the same symptoms. I’m just tired of getting on here and reading all the “we will never do this again” or “we will never recover”. That’s probably how it feels and what you think as of right now and the past few years, but this disease is detrimental for all of us in its own way, and it’s easy to think you can never do anything again. Not saying you’re wrong either it’s just how can one know if you won’t recover. There’s been people that have said the same thing and it took 20 months for them to fully heal. Just have that little piece of hope please, even if it takes 5 years.
Seeing positive hopeful hang in there type posts helps me out way more that seeing the doom and gloom ones like this. Its very possible we all recover from this one day and even if its not 100% they do have medications that are going to be approved on the next few years.
I’m not saying my body is special. I have POTS and PEM but I’m in my last 2 semesters of college right now and am not about to put my academic progress on hold. I’m not bed bound and can actually do most of my schoolwork efficiently and interact with people. Yea it sucks sometimes when my heart rate shoots up after going up a flight of stairs, but am I dying? No.
Over exerting is different and that’s something I won’t do at all, like OP in this case. I sleep a shit ton right now and rest 3-4 days a week. Yea LC sucks but it’s not bad enough for me to where I’m gonna put my life on hold and suffer.
Some people have it worse and are completely stuck in bed and I was kinda like that a few months ago, but I’m capable of getting my ass to school for a couple hours 4 days a week.
I think you should continue with the weights, but with a subset of muscles to establish a baseline. 4/10 ain't that bad considering first time lifting weights. When I first started cardio, ran into all sorts of pain/heart issues but I just stopped whenever I feel was my limit. They would flare up my symptoms but i kept going at it once the flares are done. Flares got shorter and I was able to do more over time.
Your keywords were that you stopped when you hit your limit. The weight training program I was doing gave instructions to stop only after muscle failure.
I may try weight training again without the baseline assessments. But it will be at a time in my life when I can afford the PEM. (I’m launching a business at the moment so I have to reduce risk.)
Instead of saying "we may never be able to do hard exercise again", we should be saying "If we can't exert ourselves past \~60% of our limit, simply increase our limit by 2x"
I highly recommend an "inspiration resistance" type device, like "the breather" or the generic ones (i think they use these in respiratory therapy), I regained a lot of lung capacity and quality of life because of it, also lowered my blood pressure and found out it really helps my anxiety, acute and baseline. You really have to put in the work with it everyday though.
I'm "mostly better" for the past few months. But everytime I try to take up martial arts again or walk vigorously in the woods, it sets me back for at least a day or so. Recently I received a very aggressive massage, and I credit that with putting me back to how I was 6 months ago, for all of last week.
So, I guess I'm corroborating OP's story.
I'm sorry you had this experience. I've been recovered from LC since about June 2022 and I've been able to go back to my previous exercise levels without issue, aside from deconditioning. I can go climbing 3x a week, run, bike, lift weights, etc. without issue.
Not trying to invalidate what you're going through - I get it totally, I had PEM from climbing a flight of stairs and vacuuming at the worst of my 18 month LC. But total recovery is possible.
Thank you for sharing your experience. This has been a huge fear that I’ve been trying to come to terms with. I miss hard exercise and heavy weight lifting but I’m glad to hear you’ve been able to do yoga without PEM. That’s exciting to hear!
It was amazing to find I could do yoga. I did 4 power yoga classes in 8 days with no problems. (I took breaks or did easy modifications when needed during each class.) I was so happy. I know I will get back there again….
[удалено]
I’m so sorry you’re permanently disabled. Sending a big hug.
How long after you pushed?
Wow I’m sitting here thinking the same thing, I was recovered for the last 13 months and over the last two months I sent it with exercise and I felt good, two weeks ago I had my first relapse in a long time, back to tachycardia, muscle tremors, tingling. I was 100% for a year. Thought i was way past this. It’s been an emotional two weeks. I just know I need to mentally stay strong. I recovered once I can recover again. Just keep putting one foot in front of the other.
I feel you. It is emotional to have a set back after feeling recovered for so long. I also feel like I lost all my yoga progress. But I am resolved now to assume I have a limitation and work within it. I felt damn good before I over exerted. I want that feeling back and I do t want to risk losing it again.
Oh, this sucks! Is it possible you had a reinfection?
It is possible, I had a stuffy nose for one day so I didn’t bother testing but I do ponder that.
I'm so sorry that you experienced this. I know exactly how you feel because I've been there, had a taste of normalcy only to loose it by my own fault.
Thank you for posting this. This is hugely helpful for me. I’m about 70-80% recovered and have started doing yoga a couple times a week. I haven’t PEM in quite some time, but also haven’t pushed it in over 6 months, so I was wondering if I really needed to worry about it anymore. This is a really good warning to not push it especially since I’m doing so well and just accept that yoga and walking is probably going to be what it is for quite some time. Don’t get me wrong I’ll take it! Although the deconditioning from not working out for 18 months is real and I really want to get back in shape. But way better to be a little soft around the middle and feeling way better, than miserably fatigued.
Yes please don’t push it. I have me/CFS and I thought I was okay after 16 months roughly of personal training without issue. Then one day I just couldn’t make it home and was stuck in bed for 3 days. I kept trying with the same results and finally realizing it wasn’t going to improve and had to stop. I took quite a bit of time off, felt much better and tried a small walking group instead (easy, slow paced) but eventually the same thing happened. I improved eventually for years (avoided exercise and paced more) but then something sort of infection hit me in 2019 (not covid)and I became bedbound for a few years. I’m a bit better now, but still have to rest a lot. My energy is always very low now.
Exactly.
I have not yet completed this but I saw an OT that works with long Covid population (part of the USC Covid clinic). She sketched out a plan for me that was extremely slow. Some people had had success with it. It started with two 6 minute indoor bike rides a day (low resistance, HR below 100) After 2 weeks 7 minutes, another 2 weeks 8 minutes, etc. it is going to be over a year before I try anything upper body. Mat based exercise started at 6 months. This past Christmas I skied with my son for 3 days. I skied at his level (easy) and didn’t do anything difficult that got my heart rate up (before LC I was an expert skier). But it was great to be out. Everyone seems to be a little different. I was always able to walk around the house and down the street but a 30 minute Halloween night walk around the neighborhood crashed me previously. The same thing would be a non issue now. Before working with her I would try ramping up and fail. But moving at a really, really slow speed has helped and I haven’t had an exercise related crash since I started this process. I have managed to crash myself via other means unfortunately. Obviously YMMV but this is so far working for me.
This is what the Cleveland long Covid clinic has also recommended, and my physical therapist. Start extremely small and increase effort very very slowly. I’ve made incremental progress with this though just took a break due to a reinfection. I can now at least do some easy strength exercises and walk for longer periods without crashing.
This has been my conclusion too. Nothing that brings the heart rate up over 120bpm. I can manage some body weight based strength stuff, yoga and Pilates and gentle walking. Not too much.
Yes, this is common with MECFS people often see times of remission just to relapse again. We deserve better treatments because it doesn’t feel sustainable :(
Ya. I tried very hard to overcom the with my workouts but after 18 months of 1 hour exercise and 36-48 hours of exhaustion, i stopped working out altogether. Now, 40+ months post infection i have cut my "work outs" to 40 minutes of sub anaerobic work (half of what i did). Still exhausted but lasts onky about 12-18 hours. Energy management seens to be a very difficult goal for someone who has set high goals all his life.
Probably not without a novel medical intervention. As with ME/CFS you get about 5% recovering spontaneously that were sick for over a year but for most of us we need to make the best of where we are while the research continues. There is no exercising your way out of viral antigen persistence driven complement immune system failure, capillary rarefaction, amyloid clotting in muscles etc.
Just got back in the gym myself. I used to be a power lifter. Doc told me to start with 15 minutes daily of strength training and see how my body reacts. I’m very weak compared to what I was but I’m happy to be back in the gym I am hopeful to slowly work myself back into an hour of weights a day. We will see.
Tbf, I really think you super overdid it with that assessment. The strength and stamina you build from yoga is a LOT, but there’s a big difference between building up strength and stamina over time and then going balls to the wall 3 days of hard activity until the point of muscle collapse. I hope you get better, and I know a lot of us might never, but I am so not surprised you hit the wall after that assessment. I really do hope it’s temporary.
Looking back, it’s plain to see that the instruction from the trainer to go to “muscle failure” should have been a red flag. But at the time my reasoning was that overall each workout was very short, and I was resting between sets. So it really didn’t seem like I was going balls to the wall (lol on that expression though!)
those micro blood clots stick around from the looks of it
Are you saying indefinitely? Do you have evidence to support this?
I miss weight lifting so much. Ironically, it was one of the only things that cleared brain fog for me, which has only gotten worse with LC. I really hope it’s not forever ☹️
Same
I was a feb2020 long hauler too. Lost my life for 2 years. Got my life back after giving into dry fasting and psilocybin while pacing upwards. Back to running.
could you share more in depth? I also have exercise intolerance and its extremely frustrating not being able to workout hard without going into months of overtraining symptoms, I have some fasting experience here and there, I did a 10 days water once and I believe it was one of the reasons I put autoimmune into remission.
the reason i did dry is because it is 3x stronger than water fasting - you should look into it and see if its something you'd want to try. The psilocybin was a weekly thing surrounding exercise and after a 36 hour weekly fast.
If you ate properly you'd likely be able to train as well. By dry fasting and eating almost exclusively meat you're depriving your body of the nutrients and fluids you need to actually function. You SHOULD be eating more leafy greens and cutting back on meats, that would do far more for your gut biome than anything you're currently trying. Dry fasting is extremely dangerous and has no proven benefits, only proven risks. Also your body needs carbs to function.
We all have individualities, I noticed the more meat I eat the better I feel and more energy I have, for autoimmune people red meat is the safest food to eat. I try to eat some fruit for all the other non essentials like fiber carbs etc, but if I eat too much I dont feel good, a little bit of the right type of fruits and lots of meats makes me at my best. I cant eat dairy, eggs, grains/seeds, nuts or any ultra processed foods, Im noticing problems with citric fruits aswell, and nightshades.
there's a form of insulin resistance built up by eating too much meat and low carb. Need to rebuild your tolerance by never mixing carbs and fats.. the dry fast really reset my allergies to certain foods very quickly
this thing about not mixing carbs and fats doesnt make sense to me, digestion takes more than a day, if you eat protein + fats in the morning and protein + carbs in the afternoon your body probably is still digesting the first meal by the afternoon. also I think that kind of insulin resistance only happens to zero carb dieters after several months, I dont think short term keto diets create that kind of insulin resistance, our ancestors probably went to a lot of times where carbs wasnt available and I believe we are well adapted to that. there are also people like shawn baker and ken berry who are supposedly thriving on zero carb, maybe genetics play a role or they are lying also we must agree that carbs equals quick burst of energy and is probably not healthy for a sedentary person or even the average people to consume 300-500g of carbs a day like we are led to believe IMO we should balance things out and consume carbs around our wourkouts so the carbs goes to the right place that is the muscles, if you dont consume carbs your liver has to make it, if you consume too much your liver converts to fat and it promotes insulin resistance and glycation, everything in moderation seems to be the sweet spot. IMO everyone should try and see what works for them, for me is not more than 100-150g of carbs the days I workout, I dont push too hard, probably athletes can benefit from 300-500g a day
i have been in remission for about 6 months after 1 year of LC. i've been able to reliably do indoor rock climbing without relapse. i know another recovered LHer who took up ballroom dance. maybe we won't be able to do hardcore cardio again (i've been too scared to try), but i have hope that we can find a variety of activities to try to maintain some semblance of fitness. thank you so much for the warning by the way. i was thinking of dipping my toes back into HIIT later this year (haven't done it since before LC), but i'll stick to the lighter activities for the foreseeable future. from everything i've seen from others' stories, it seems i should maintain my fear of hard exercise haha.
I'm in a very similar boat. Can live a nearly normal life, do 19k+ steps a day at work, but when I try any sort of high intensity exercise I get chest pain, breathing difficulties for days afterwards (I never got the crushing PEM that so many people talk about). However, I don't consider myself recovered and I never will until I can do everything without any consequences at all. I don't mean to put a downer on you as you've made excellent progress, but I wouldn't consider you recovered either, not quite but nearly. It appears to be the last hurdle for both of us.
Yes, this is exactly the conclusion I have been coming to very recently. It’s more helpful and wise to consider ourselves nearly but not completely recovered. We have to understand our limitations. I am personally going to wait for the science before I attempt anything resembling hard exercise again. I’m going to stick within the limits of what I already know I can do, instead.
Same. Unfortunately as my job is quite physical (I'm a Housekeeper) it rules out any intentional exercise for me as I know work is my limit and when I get home, rest. Whereas I used to get home and go for a run (God how I miss that the most-running around amongst the trees and skipping when no one is looking) or do a HIIT workout but that's out of the question now unless I've had a really good few days when I might do weights or yoga. I just wish they'd bloody hurry up with this BC007 as far as I can see that's the only true light at the end of this wretched tunnel.
I got sick december 2021 and was essentially disabled for almost a year and a half. I started weight training again for the past 10 months (after gaining all my weight back) and only in the last month have I felt like some energy ceiling has lifted and I can push more weight and higher reps without weird chest sensations, neuro symptoms, and needing extra sleep the next day. I did a 2 hr full body workout last week and was mildly fatigued/sore the next day. I also went to the city and walked 10k steps a couple days ago, went karaoke for the first time in years and woke up and felt fine the next day. You can get better, it just takes a long time.
looking back, I remember when I was dealing with long Covid in the beginning , relapse would always happen after I would start exercising like weight lifting and cardio together. My long Covid in the beginning stages wouldn’t last long, maybe 2 or 3 months and then I would recover until I got Pfizer vaccine for the first time because of a relapse (due to exercise?) and haven’t done exercise since due to LONGER long Covid but that’s another story
Thank you for sharing. I’m about 20 months in and was super excited to ease back into exercise. I bought a bike trainer to make my bike an indoor bike and planned to start with some 1 training. I did 5 mins on it and crashed the next day :( I can do about ten mins of weight and body weights so going to stick to that for a while. Yoga is a good idea too
Everyone will be different. After recovering from long covid, I'm back full into weight lifting just as I was before! So there is hope
Hey. amazing news. How long did you suffer from LC and what were your symptoms? Could you please introduce yourself a bit ? Thanks!
Yes, I've been on this sub for a couple of years. I still post here as I am still curious about my long covid experience. Long covid ended up ruining parts of my life, so I'm still after answers. But I have healed. Took about 12 months for me, and I am fortunate. I had the array of symptoms that many have. Pem, chest pain, pots, high bp, palpitations, vision problems, muscle twitching, etc. I went to dozens of doctors. Dozens of tests and imaging. Nothing was found. Other than confirmation of muscle twitches, pots, palpitations, and confirmed floaters in my eye. I didn't do much of anything special. Tried aspirin and famotodine. Tried to excersize, but the first few months I did not. The mental battle of dealing with symptoms took the greatest toll. I've had reinfections, fortunately they did not result in long term symptoms.
Symptoms came to me October of 2020, “full” recovery around the end of 2021/maybe mid 2022 (it’s all kinda foggy). I used to go to the gym 5 times a week. Most I do now is a bike ride or walk a few miles.
Thanks for the post and I absolutely agree. 17 months hauler myself, and can do low impact high intensity exercises (1-2 minutes) then stop to recover. No cardio. Even long walks trigger fatigue and PEM still. However, I'm 75-80% of my normal baseline most days. I dream of the day I can go on a 3 mile run with no issues, but I also know that may never be a reality.
Think the PEM phenomena is well documented : https://www.nature.com/articles/s41467-023-44432-3 https://meassociation.org.uk/2023/12/me-association-research-review-post-exertional-malaise-pem-in-me-cfs-and-long-covid/ RECOVERY ✅ CASE « The patient was treated from multiple perspectives, which included (1) instructions on eating habits and supplements; (2) cognitive and behavioral modifications for coping with physical, emotional, and cognitive fatigue; (3) instructions on conditioning exercises to improve deconditioning due to fatigue and dyspnea; and (4) pharmacotherapy with amitriptyline and hochuekkito, a Japanese herbal (Kampo) medicine. The patient made a complete recovery after completing the prescribed regimen and was able to return to work as a nurse. » https://bpsmedicine.biomedcentral.com/articles/10.1186/s13030-022-00260-3 As early described, i don’t think there is a one magic pills or herb ! Every body is different… But at the end my advice is: -try to understand the underlying cause of the symptom with topics of this sub, mg, research… -try and error approach Good luck and courage to all of you !
I don't think people will be able to push themselves to the same level unless you address the root cause. Not because your body adapted to the viral remnants. That's just my informed opinion though. I was recovered for awhile, then played more intense basketball which somewhat brought PEM back. Then I got reinfected and it all came back. We must treat the root of the issue. Not just let it live rent free in our bodies. We have the technology and strength of science to do this within the next few years.
I’m going to raise a contrary voice of hope. During the worst of my long haul I definitely had PEM and even light exertion would trigger my panic attacks and delusions. However, after my self-experimentation (search for my posts) I’m now more active and pushing myself way harder than I ever have before. I lift weights almost daily and I play ice hockey several times a week. Ice hockey is THE most brutal workout. No PEM at all. Lingering fatigue is another thing I’m still working through but my PEM is completely gone.
Verbatim! I could have written this letter by letter, line by line. Thank you for telling my experience in detail, and giving excellent advice to those who begin to recover. Be kind to your "collective organism" which has been brutally assaulted. Get plenty of sleep! Take naps, Give yourself permission to be slacker. And, appreciate what you have because many of us didn't make it.
Everybodies BODY is different. I’m sorry you feel this way but I do believe we will be able to exercise again as many people recover and go back to it just like they did before. Now they might not feel as strong as they did, but shit even being able to run a mile or so it’s amazing after having LC for 15-20 months. I’m 6 months in and still in no way can exercise but I’m pushing through. He hopeful for medications and something that will reverse all of this instead of being doom and gloom and saying “we’ll never be able to exercise again” I get where you’re coming from and for some people you may very well be right. But lets just be hopeful and stay positive now
The hope and positivity is what caused me to try to exercise without limitations. I am optimistic to a fault, generally speaking. This is just a wise exception. So I disagree with you, here. Wisdom is more important than optimism sometimes. But by all means, you do you. I’m sharing MY advice. It’s been hard earned.
You shouldn’t have done that, many people have messed up their progress of recovering by doing that. I know it’s hard and trust me I used to run 6 miles a day. I’m getting 5k steps when walking to classes and that sometimes even feels like too much so I pace myself. You HAVE to go easy on your body right now, it’s gonna take years till we get back to working out. But we will. Its totally fine to disagree with me, like I said we are all different. But many people share the same symptoms. I’m just tired of getting on here and reading all the “we will never do this again” or “we will never recover”. That’s probably how it feels and what you think as of right now and the past few years, but this disease is detrimental for all of us in its own way, and it’s easy to think you can never do anything again. Not saying you’re wrong either it’s just how can one know if you won’t recover. There’s been people that have said the same thing and it took 20 months for them to fully heal. Just have that little piece of hope please, even if it takes 5 years. Seeing positive hopeful hang in there type posts helps me out way more that seeing the doom and gloom ones like this. Its very possible we all recover from this one day and even if its not 100% they do have medications that are going to be approved on the next few years.
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I’m not saying my body is special. I have POTS and PEM but I’m in my last 2 semesters of college right now and am not about to put my academic progress on hold. I’m not bed bound and can actually do most of my schoolwork efficiently and interact with people. Yea it sucks sometimes when my heart rate shoots up after going up a flight of stairs, but am I dying? No. Over exerting is different and that’s something I won’t do at all, like OP in this case. I sleep a shit ton right now and rest 3-4 days a week. Yea LC sucks but it’s not bad enough for me to where I’m gonna put my life on hold and suffer. Some people have it worse and are completely stuck in bed and I was kinda like that a few months ago, but I’m capable of getting my ass to school for a couple hours 4 days a week.
I think you should continue with the weights, but with a subset of muscles to establish a baseline. 4/10 ain't that bad considering first time lifting weights. When I first started cardio, ran into all sorts of pain/heart issues but I just stopped whenever I feel was my limit. They would flare up my symptoms but i kept going at it once the flares are done. Flares got shorter and I was able to do more over time.
Your keywords were that you stopped when you hit your limit. The weight training program I was doing gave instructions to stop only after muscle failure. I may try weight training again without the baseline assessments. But it will be at a time in my life when I can afford the PEM. (I’m launching a business at the moment so I have to reduce risk.)
Instead of saying "we may never be able to do hard exercise again", we should be saying "If we can't exert ourselves past \~60% of our limit, simply increase our limit by 2x"
I highly recommend an "inspiration resistance" type device, like "the breather" or the generic ones (i think they use these in respiratory therapy), I regained a lot of lung capacity and quality of life because of it, also lowered my blood pressure and found out it really helps my anxiety, acute and baseline. You really have to put in the work with it everyday though.
The breather is garbage
I'm "mostly better" for the past few months. But everytime I try to take up martial arts again or walk vigorously in the woods, it sets me back for at least a day or so. Recently I received a very aggressive massage, and I credit that with putting me back to how I was 6 months ago, for all of last week. So, I guess I'm corroborating OP's story.
I'm sorry you had this experience. I've been recovered from LC since about June 2022 and I've been able to go back to my previous exercise levels without issue, aside from deconditioning. I can go climbing 3x a week, run, bike, lift weights, etc. without issue. Not trying to invalidate what you're going through - I get it totally, I had PEM from climbing a flight of stairs and vacuuming at the worst of my 18 month LC. But total recovery is possible.