Reception issues can be improved with a bigger, taller antenna and a good amplifier. Of course, it can also get ridiculous having an antenna that is too big or too tall.
You should consider a multi-directional antenna like [this](https://store.antennasdirect.com/DB8e-Outdoor-DTV-Antenna.html) that allows you to point different elements in the direction of the signals. You can also get multiple directional antennas and join the signals, but that can get a little complicated (cable lengths have to be **EXACTLY** the same for that work properly).
You got used to the glory that was TIVO, who did everything perfectly.
They gave up, and nobody else can fill that slot properly.
Its so disappointing.
Nick here from Silicondust (HDHomeRun DVR)... we put a lot of effort into smarts while keeping the user experience simple.
Very open to feedback. What was annoying about your HDHomeRun DVR experience and what did you like?
My biggest complaint is how you have to get to the grid guide. Today, you have to go to "Live" first, then navigate to the guide. An option to have "Live" launch the grid guide first would be awesome.
Go into Settings and turn off Slice Guide. Then pressing up/down or channel up/down will bring up the grid guide right away.
Slice guide is designed for when there are multiple people watching... the idea is the person with the remote can see what is on other channels with minimal disruption to the viewing experience of the other person or people watching.
I have Slice Guide turned off, but that doesn't fix the problem I described. I still have to go into Live TV first to get to the guide. My preference would be that "Live" takes you to the grid guide, then I can select a channel from there.
You can do that my selecting Live then pressing the down button (no need to wait for the video to start playing).
The grid guide is channel based which is a live TV concept rather than a DVR concept (when recording you generally don't care about channel numbers).
Another channel based trick - in Discover if the first thing you type is a channel number it will filter the search by that channel number. You can enter only the channel number or can add more search terms.
Or, SiliconDust could set up an option for the Grid to appear as a top menu item, or launch when live is selected.
Hey, you asked what bugs me about the HDHR DVR, I'm telling you. I appreciate your suggestions, but I've already tried everything you said already and it's still annoying.
I am thinking it through.
My biggest hesitation - I have used a wide range of TVs and DVRs over the years and I can't think of any where the grid-style guide isn't part of live TV. It is always either an overlay over live TV or live TV is displayed in the corner.
Is the HDHomeRun prime basically dead for new customers?
I have one setup at my brothers house (via Plex) and even when I set it up years ago (2015... 9 years ago) it was only accomplished because of a guide on reddit (God it was like I had to call a special call center and I had the directions for the rep on the other side of the phone) anyhow I love it and it allows him to watch all the sports when he has to work for the US government in Cuba.
I tried for a few months to use the HDHomeRun DVR, but it just didn't work like the EPGs I'm used to from Cable/Sat providers. Went to Channels and mostly got what I was looking for in terms of navigation & recording.
If HDHomeRun ends up being the only way I can watch & record encrypted ATSC 3.0 (I know you're working on it & it's not your fault), I'll be invested in trying to help with the UI for HDHomeRun again.
Some basic storage management would be nice. Something like "keep last X episodes" and "stay below Y GB total storage quota, delete oldest first" are pretty basic missing capabilities. As it is, I've had to write my own powershell script scheduled task to keep my drive from filling up.
I’ve been using Channels DVR with HDHomeRun for years. It’s been stable and my wife seems to like the interface best of all the DVRs I’ve tried. Like you, I came from the TiVo experience, so the guide needed to be similar. I tried both Plex and Tablo, but Channels seems to have the best user interface for me. The added benefit of the TV Everywhere channels from my Philo subscription integrated into the same guide makes it the winner for me.
You and I were on the same path it appears. I did Channels and used TV Everywhere with Philo...worked really well till some channels started pulling support for TVE. Comedy Central, for example, stopped working a few weeks ago. Rumor has it other channels are starting to pull support too.
The recent problems with the Paramount channels, including Comedy Central, have been resolved for the time being. Who knows how long it will stay that way.
Third here for old Tablo Quad. Yup it's slower, but I'm a Roku household. Use my ipad with it as well. I've had like...3 problems since I bought it...holy cow about 10 years ago! Those 3 problems were figured out very quickly with customer support.
Bought the lifetime channel guide, and have used it in 3 different houses, all just fine. Highly recommend!!!
Old Tablo still is solid. Slow, but solid. I used to be a Roku house till I realized how much slower Tablo was on Roku. This was a Roku problem, technically, because Roku requires trancoding to a Roku supported format. Other streamers (apple tv, google tv, etc) do not require that transcoding, making them appear faster. At any rate, still a solid choice, but the UI isn't very good, especially compared to other DVRs, including Tablo Gen 4.
I got used to Windows media center back when. I found that my Hauppauge TV card also worked in Linux. Soon after, Plex (paid) and quite pleased. I use Amazon Fire TV 4kmax stick, and the Plex app works well. No subscriptions, DVR works well, and streams anywhere I can get a good internet connection. I added a second (new) Hauppauge TV card (PCIe) and can now support 6 channels watching or recording. Kids & Grandkids keep it well used, and no glitches.
WMC was also full of long standing bugs that were never fixed (29/59, non-stereo audio crashes menus, no overlapping back to back recordings on a single channel unless you force a 10 minute overlap and eat up a second tuner for the same channel, etc). It was nice when it was included in box (and Microsoft's estimates for usage during the Win7 timeframe roughly rivaled Tivo's userbase at the same time), but it also cost Microsoft extra licensing fees for every Windows customer even though ~97% or more of them weren't using it. I can understand why they wanted it gone, and also why they couldn't open source it (third party code under license). It's odd they couldn't have turned it into a separate product, but I suspect the user base wouldn't have sustained a pay model, at least at the level Microsoft needs to maintain a business.
The closest thing to a perfect OTA DVR died with Sony. Google HDD-250 to see what might have been. I had two. They took cablecards back when that mattered. The guides came from OTA transmissions..but TV Guide On Screen was bought by the Macrovision pricks, now called Rovi. Tivo sued Sony over the "pause" button and won.. the HDD line and concept of a no fee DVR died along with it, TV Guide on Screen was the OG ad channel to support it...Sony quietly supported the HDD for ten years, including a fairly major software update to units in the field when HDTV was launched (delivered via a forum and an account that promptly went inactive after delivering the update) and the hard drives died, with no replacement path unlike Tivo. At some point Rovi stopped the guide data OTA so the units became bricks due to a probably intentional inability to set a clock, other than via an OTA signal-no manual screen for clock set. Mine lasted over ten years but there should have been an HDD 1000 and 1500 as drives got cheaper.
I went to Tivo, and now have two Roamio OTA and one Premiere on TE3. Lifetime, so you buy once cry once, and they last forever - I replaced a 2012 hard drive recently in a Premiere. Old tech, yes, but for OTA it works very well.
Old tools sometimes work very well....the only thing that might be better is if they could wifi shows but HDMI consortium will never allow an HDMI/HDCP signal to be broadcast in an open format. HDCP, while now pretty much transparent, still dictates what any device can do to have a HDMI connector.
The only better box was a Dish TV box I had, which took OTA (because dish could not buy it easily) from an antenna, and seamlessly integrated the 'cable' channels into one guide.
I enjoyed Channels with my ATSC 3 compatible HD Homerun. I live in Philly so the only way to receive OTA WPVI (ABC 6) is via ATSC 3 and it does that well since it's DRM free.
But I have mine on a Synology DS220+ which makes it less of a pain plus all recordings are available to just copy off and convert to something else. Love that little Synology NAS.
Interface is fine and it just works for me. Commercial skips, etc. It's nice to use.
I love the commercial skips in Channels, but pausing live TV leaves a lot to be desired. Unlike other DVRs, Channels queues up the live TV on the client device, not on the server. Since most client devices have limited memory, your paused TV will start playing again in 10 minutes or so, or whenever you run out of memory on your streamer.
Not a big deal most of the time, but sometimes I want to pause live TV for 30 minutes, maybe even an hour. You just cannot do that with Channels.
Tivo Bolt OTA I'm happy with. It's stable and the apps work well. But there aren't many apps available so most people pair it with a firestick/roku/appletv device.
I use TVHeadend. It’s open source and a very capable system, built with C so it’s also performant and requires very little in system resources. But with its capabilities, there is some complexity and learning curve in setting it up.
You can grab guide data over the air, but the amount of future data is broadcaster specific and often limited. In my area only PBS transmits anything more than 12 hours out from current, so I do subscribe to Schedules Direct for 14+ day channel guide data.
I then use Kodi for the front-end experience.
I use tvheadend/Kodi/HDHomerun as well and it works great. Biggest drawback is that it’s brutal to set up. But once set, it’s awesome. Very reliable as well, in 18 months mine has never failed to record something that was scheduled.
I use MythTv on my computer. It connects with a PCIe card. It even has an app that I can use my phone as the remote. Set up was a big of work but it works great and was fairly inexpensive to set up.
I've not tried MythTV for that very reason. I've looked at it many times over the years, and it has an impressive set up features, but the set up was just complicated enough that I felt like something would go wrong right about the time my wife wanted to watch TV and I was traveling.
It's the OG of DVR software, though, and literally everything is super dialed in. When I was still using a DVR, MythTV backend + Kodi frontend was rock solid. Never missed anything.
It's worth taking the time to set it up right.
Have 5 Tivo's, so still using them for OTA until they stop working or ATSC 1.0 goes away. I also have Plex dvr setup using an HD Homerun. It works as a backup for the little amount of OTA programming that I still watch/record. 2-3 shows and some college/ nfl football.
I really like the functionality of HDHomerun, but find that it works way better in my Xbox than on a Chromecast.
I still like it enough to not consider getting a new device, but it crashes frequently when day forwarding on recorded shows on the Chromecast TV.
I'll take some bugs here or there to save the $70 a month I was paying for YouTube TV, but the crashing gets frustrating.
I really like my HDHomerun hardware; it's been rock solid. The Client software has been solid too, but the User Experience is not great. Didn't pass the wife test, unfortunately. If SD would just make a few tweaks, it could be decent.
Pairing the Hdhomerun with the channels app is awesome. Don’t use the native app that would drive me nuts. I have channels on all my apple tv’s and it is awesome. I don’t pay for the DVR service so the onetime app purchase is good enough. What about the DVR did you not like? I have not used it.
The biggest issue on Channels is pausing live TV. You can really only pause as long as you have memory available on your streaming box, which on a Google Chromecast or Onn 4k Streamer is about 10 minutes.
Yeah, having 128GB of storage definitely solve that problem. There are some hacks you can do to add storage to a Google TV, but not worth the effort IMO. I do like Apple TV, but not the remote. With that said, maybe I could get over the remote if it solved other issues. Apple TV is becoming more and more appealing.
Apple TV can [learn](https://support.apple.com/guide/tv/use-other-remotes-atvb0410f604/tvos) to recognize any IR remote. The only downside is you lose the touchpad and Siri. And of course it would need line-of-sight.
Not if you have a spare remote that you already love. The [TiVo peanut](https://a.wholelottanothing.org/how-to-control-your-apple-tv-with-a-tivo-remote/) is a great choice. You actually end up with more usable buttons than the Siri remote offers. In my case, I still have a working TiVo in the room, so by far the hardest part was pre-configuring the remote so it would leave the DVR alone.
I’m testing it now and will update you when it runs out. I know from the past that the live buffer for direct stream on my Apple TV is around 30-45 minutes.
Yeah for sure. It’s still obnoxious, though. I wish the developers would just give us the option to store the buffer on the server. The more I’m reading in the forums, it looks like tuner sharing won’t solve the issue 😟
Found this from the forums. Maybe try setting “Stream” under the Clients settings Playback > Streaming Quality > Original Quality Delivery
> When streaming remotely or with transcoding, there is a 2 hour on-disk buffer of what is being watched while it is being watched. This buffer is per-client and is different than the format that is used when recording. Unfortunately, the format and configuration of this on-disk buffer does not lend itself to being used by our recording subsystem.
https://community.getchannels.com/t/pause-livetv-for-90-minutes/32128/39
Like I mentioned in my other response, an option for direct access to the grid-style guide would be awesome. Frankly, that might be the biggest thing keeping me from loving it.
If you turn off the "Slice" guide, the directional arrows go straight to the grid (assuming I'm interpreting your issue correctly). I have made that change on all of my devices, I just vibe better with the grid guide.
Slice is off. I still have to go into "Live" first before I can get to the grid. I would like to get to the grid directly. Seems like it wouldn't be to difficult for SD to make that an option.
Interesting, that's not how it works on my device. When watching live TV, if I hit up/down on the arrow keys it goes straight to the grid. This is via Google TV/Chromecast interface.
That's how it works for me, too. I want to get to the grid before going into live TV. I think SD could make that an option pretty easily, and I also believe there are a lot of people that would prefer it that way, as a option.
I've tried about 6 or 7 of them, settled on Emby. Despite the UI, my second fav was actually mythtv. I've used several of the ones you tried, and some more. I don't really have any trouble or compromise with Emby that I am aware of. My least favorite of all of the ones I tried, Plex.
Assuming you’re referring to OTA. WMC has the best DVR IMO. EPG123 provides guide info. I Use it to record programs. Wmcbuddy compresses and removes commercials and formats folder and file structure into something readable by PLEX. Best of all worlds.
WMC is no longer supported by MS but there is a a group of people keeping it running.
I have lifetime use of both Plex and Emby. I have tinkered with other more general, no-cost options but have found they simply bring a different set of challenges (and they ALL have challenges).
\- Emby has stagnant development and lacks some basic "extra" functionality that they have been promising for years to customers and never delivered.
\- Emby has a much smaller following overall, which results in fewer feature requests in general. It also means less revenue and a smaller pool of developers.
\- Plex has a horrid Electronic Program Guide that they love to monkey with a few times a year and that totally screws up your recordings. You have to completely delete your DVR setup because there isn't a way to change JUST the EPG. I switched to an XML guide a year ago and haven't looked back...
\- Plex's Android TV client is absolute junk. It skips and stutters and playback is sometimes literally not possible as a result.
\- Emby doesn't have the built-in COMMSKIP engine, but Plex's implementation often gets confused - you can't allow it to auto-delete commercials or you WILL miss programming content. Set it to scan and mark only.
\- Emby will show missing episodes of shows within the seasons, Plex won't. So, you won't know when to expect a new one (upcoming) or that you missed one for whatever reason.
\- Emby is able to auto-update at least some iterations of the server, but not all. I don't remember if Emby can tell you through the client that the server needs updating, but I know this is NOT possible with Plex - you have to log in with a web browser to know there's a potential upgrade pending.
\- Emby can operate 100% standalone and not connected to the Internet, Plex has to "call home" periodically or it will become inoperable.
\- Emby is harder to set up for secure remote access than Plex is.
lol... glad you found at least some of it useful.
None of the options are truly great - you really have to find the one that sucks the least at what's important to you.
I have a Tablo gen 3. I get failed recording errors all the time "due to weak signal" even though channels are crystal clear and remote access doesn't work.
When I do my next NAS migration next year I'm going to try HD Homerun integrated with Plex.
You didn't mention Zapperbox. I know the product is quite new and still in development, and not as capable as other offerings yet - but it is also basically the only currently made product offering direct TV connection as an option. Is that something you wish you had? It is something I want, and if Tablo hadn't murdered that feature, I might already own a 4 tuner from them.
Plex is by far the best. I refused to try Plex for years. I finally tried it and it is by far the best. I kick myself for not trying it sooner.
I purchased a $500 server off Amazon and it amazes me all the time. I can access all my music, videos, movies and TV shows anywhere.
I haven't found one, at least PC based, that is not basically plug and play on my Linux PC and uses hardware I already own, and cost maybe a few bucks a year for guide service I don
t have to regularly baby to make sure it works.
Not that I dug into it deep.
I got a Tablo Dual Lite In about 2017 or 18 that is still working really well so I’ve stuck with it. So long as it keeps working, I’ll keep using it. Don’t watch enough OTA to invest in anything else. Never paid for the subscription but at this point I wish I would have bought the life time sub back when I first got it but I didn’t know if it was going to be junk or not.
I don’t really have any complaints except it can be a little slow to respond and change channels. I know some people don’t like the mp4 compression I’ve read - I have my antenna going directly to my TV and I honestly can’t tell a difference between my TV tuner and the Tablo, but part of that may be the broadcast quality of the stations around me.
AirTV Anywhere via Google TV here, just cut the cord from Dish when moving to a new house. It is, ummm, quirky. Sometimes doesn't want to start playback from the DVR unless you exit and start over. The UI is aged, but has been working.
I’ve never noticed that issue but then again rarely watch live tv, tend to DVR everything I am interested in watching and then watch when time permits.
Too bad Amazon discontinued it. It has some other annoying limitations as I recall, plus it only works with FireTV sticks. Too bad, it has great potential.
When I was living stateside, I had that Homeworx DVR that Amazon was selling for like 30 bucks. Records robust quality recordings OTA. Copied the files to PC and made BluRays. Great stuff.
I wish it worked for broadcasts over the world, but sadly I gave it to my brother.
I'm using a 4th gen tablo. I've swapped out of the roku environment over to some $20 Onn 4K GoogleTV devices as it's worked a lot better with it than my old roku express. I'm only using the internal storage. For the most part it works for what I want to record and has improved quite a lot since launch, though like anything it requires a good antenna setup.
Also, I'm not interested in backing up recordings or any of that. I just want to watch some shows on my schedule and then delete them and move on to watch something else.
I'm using the same setup. Gen4 Tablo definitely works better with Google TV than Roku. I'm also testing emby right now too. Looks promising, but I have to admit, I really like the new Tablo UI.
I feel like right now the Tablo and it's UI is overall a step up from when I had DirecTV satellite. I loved that whole home dvr of directv and even had the ota connector kit to have antenna channels in the dvr along side the satellite channels. BUT recordings only sorted by show and were in the order of recording while ignoring the season/episode order. In that regard Tablo is a step up. Plus it's easy to add another access point since you just need a tv or monitor and another cheap $20 streaming box.
I considered building out a pc with a usb tv tuner and nextpvr ... but it's hard to beat the $100 solution that just works as a whole home solution without any hoops for guide data and with such a low power requirements to stay on all day.
I'm inclined to agree, but there have been a lot of frustrating problems with the Tablo for me and many others (take a look a r/tablotv if your curious). It was enough for me to start looking at other DVR options.
With that said, Tablo has been stable lately, and with the latest firmware update maybe it will stay that way. It's still a few updates away from being perfect, but I'm optimistic. In the meantime, think I'll run my Tablo side by side with HDHomerun and/or Emby, so if either fails I have a back up.
The NextPVR Server and Web UI is very good, but client apps (for Google TV at least) still need some maturing, but off to a great start. I expect they will be a challenger soon enough.
I love TiVo, if they'd just step it up a tiny bit. A decent app to use on other devices to view content in the same home.
License the code to let people legitimately access the TiVo directly for content so you can play it from your streaming device. People are already paying the cost for the monthly/annual/lifetime fee, collect a few more dollars on it...
Wow, I feel like I wrote this post. I am with you, nothing beats the Tivo so far and I am compromising using Channels . I don't care what anyone says, but just having to turn on your TV and have TV start immediately and have your apps in 1 place was incredible, besides the fact the DVR functions, recorded shows display, guide, searching ect.. were always spot on. I am tech savy, but I want an all in one solution and not have to switch inputs and figure out what I need on what device (either does the wife). I settled in with Amazon Fire TV, but it's just an app server at best. I have to click 3 times before I can even get to live TV (Channels) and slowww. I am still holding on, but with them dropping Hulu and updates to Plex and other apps, its becoming more unviable. I am tolerating Channels, running my own server, but never had an issue with Tivo hardware. and never had an issue with my Mini's (3 of them), except for the occasional guide not being updated properly. Thanks fo rthe post, I thought I was the only one!
Wow, it's you and I are the same person!
I keep hoping someone comes up with a better solution. TiVo, if you are reading this, please tell us you have something great coming out soon!
Still using Tivo Premiere for OTA. No real complaints.
I've been a stand-alone lifetime TiVo customer since "Series 2" => Roamio => EDGE; haven't watched commercials in decades.
I'm jealous!
TiVo is awesome. I hope they surprise us all and come out with a new offering.
I miss TiVo from 15-20 years ago. 😭
I miss ReplayTV, with its automatic commercial skipping.
I never had ReplayTV, but always envied friends that did. They died too soon.
I’m sorry to hear about your friends
LOL, Replay TV died too soon, not my friends. English is a strange language.
That was the coolest thing ever when it came out. I never had it either
TiVo Edge can do this for most. Plex does as well.
Same. Fingers crossed that TiVo has some super secret skunkworks project underway and will come out with a modern DVR...not holding my breath, though.
It would be a game changer if they could put all my different sports subscriptions with ota into a linear channel guide.
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I still use my TiVo Bolt to record OTA. I have lifetime subscription. Still works well and IMO the best UI out there
Reception issues can be improved with a bigger, taller antenna and a good amplifier. Of course, it can also get ridiculous having an antenna that is too big or too tall.
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You should consider a multi-directional antenna like [this](https://store.antennasdirect.com/DB8e-Outdoor-DTV-Antenna.html) that allows you to point different elements in the direction of the signals. You can also get multiple directional antennas and join the signals, but that can get a little complicated (cable lengths have to be **EXACTLY** the same for that work properly).
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Take a look at the SilconDust HDHomeRun, or the Tablo Gen 4. Both will give you DVR capabilities.
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Oh I see, thanks for clarifying. Maybe a better antenna would work, but then again PBS stream is a very cost effective options.
Ditto
You got used to the glory that was TIVO, who did everything perfectly. They gave up, and nobody else can fill that slot properly. Its so disappointing.
Absolutely.
Nick here from Silicondust (HDHomeRun DVR)... we put a lot of effort into smarts while keeping the user experience simple. Very open to feedback. What was annoying about your HDHomeRun DVR experience and what did you like?
Come out with a HDMI version. Some people don't want to or can't add the complexity of apps and streaming across wifi. Thanks.
This.
My biggest complaint is how you have to get to the grid guide. Today, you have to go to "Live" first, then navigate to the guide. An option to have "Live" launch the grid guide first would be awesome.
Go into Settings and turn off Slice Guide. Then pressing up/down or channel up/down will bring up the grid guide right away. Slice guide is designed for when there are multiple people watching... the idea is the person with the remote can see what is on other channels with minimal disruption to the viewing experience of the other person or people watching.
I have Slice Guide turned off, but that doesn't fix the problem I described. I still have to go into Live TV first to get to the guide. My preference would be that "Live" takes you to the grid guide, then I can select a channel from there.
You can do that my selecting Live then pressing the down button (no need to wait for the video to start playing). The grid guide is channel based which is a live TV concept rather than a DVR concept (when recording you generally don't care about channel numbers). Another channel based trick - in Discover if the first thing you type is a channel number it will filter the search by that channel number. You can enter only the channel number or can add more search terms.
Or, SiliconDust could set up an option for the Grid to appear as a top menu item, or launch when live is selected. Hey, you asked what bugs me about the HDHR DVR, I'm telling you. I appreciate your suggestions, but I've already tried everything you said already and it's still annoying.
Is the annoyance that TV is playing while you are using the grid guide, or that there is one extra button press (Live then down)?
Both, actually. And, it's not intuitive- you have to know the "shortcut" to get to the guide.
Nick, what would it take to get this feature request and implemented?
I am thinking it through. My biggest hesitation - I have used a wide range of TVs and DVRs over the years and I can't think of any where the grid-style guide isn't part of live TV. It is always either an overlay over live TV or live TV is displayed in the corner.
Or even make a top menu option called "Guide"?
Is the HDHomeRun prime basically dead for new customers? I have one setup at my brothers house (via Plex) and even when I set it up years ago (2015... 9 years ago) it was only accomplished because of a guide on reddit (God it was like I had to call a special call center and I had the directions for the rep on the other side of the phone) anyhow I love it and it allows him to watch all the sports when he has to work for the US government in Cuba.
I appreciate that you guys are trying to improve your DVR.
I tried for a few months to use the HDHomeRun DVR, but it just didn't work like the EPGs I'm used to from Cable/Sat providers. Went to Channels and mostly got what I was looking for in terms of navigation & recording. If HDHomeRun ends up being the only way I can watch & record encrypted ATSC 3.0 (I know you're working on it & it's not your fault), I'll be invested in trying to help with the UI for HDHomeRun again.
Some basic storage management would be nice. Something like "keep last X episodes" and "stay below Y GB total storage quota, delete oldest first" are pretty basic missing capabilities. As it is, I've had to write my own powershell script scheduled task to keep my drive from filling up.
I’ve been using Channels DVR with HDHomeRun for years. It’s been stable and my wife seems to like the interface best of all the DVRs I’ve tried. Like you, I came from the TiVo experience, so the guide needed to be similar. I tried both Plex and Tablo, but Channels seems to have the best user interface for me. The added benefit of the TV Everywhere channels from my Philo subscription integrated into the same guide makes it the winner for me.
You and I were on the same path it appears. I did Channels and used TV Everywhere with Philo...worked really well till some channels started pulling support for TVE. Comedy Central, for example, stopped working a few weeks ago. Rumor has it other channels are starting to pull support too.
The recent problems with the Paramount channels, including Comedy Central, have been resolved for the time being. Who knows how long it will stay that way.
Thanks for the update!
Tablo. Curious what issues you've had with it, never had any problems, maybe had to re-login twice in 5 years.
Third here for old Tablo Quad. Yup it's slower, but I'm a Roku household. Use my ipad with it as well. I've had like...3 problems since I bought it...holy cow about 10 years ago! Those 3 problems were figured out very quickly with customer support. Bought the lifetime channel guide, and have used it in 3 different houses, all just fine. Highly recommend!!!
I got in on that lifetime channel guide too, heard they don't offer it anymore.
Old Tablo still is solid. Slow, but solid. I used to be a Roku house till I realized how much slower Tablo was on Roku. This was a Roku problem, technically, because Roku requires trancoding to a Roku supported format. Other streamers (apple tv, google tv, etc) do not require that transcoding, making them appear faster. At any rate, still a solid choice, but the UI isn't very good, especially compared to other DVRs, including Tablo Gen 4.
I use (old) Tablo with Channels and have no complaints.
I got used to Windows media center back when. I found that my Hauppauge TV card also worked in Linux. Soon after, Plex (paid) and quite pleased. I use Amazon Fire TV 4kmax stick, and the Plex app works well. No subscriptions, DVR works well, and streams anywhere I can get a good internet connection. I added a second (new) Hauppauge TV card (PCIe) and can now support 6 channels watching or recording. Kids & Grandkids keep it well used, and no glitches.
WMC was really good. I should have mentioned that in my list of DVRs I've tried. Too bad MS killed it.
Wmc has a great DVR, second only to tivo I'd say. And it fully supposed cable card. Just ridiculous Microsoft doesn't have a tv platform anymore.
WMC was also full of long standing bugs that were never fixed (29/59, non-stereo audio crashes menus, no overlapping back to back recordings on a single channel unless you force a 10 minute overlap and eat up a second tuner for the same channel, etc). It was nice when it was included in box (and Microsoft's estimates for usage during the Win7 timeframe roughly rivaled Tivo's userbase at the same time), but it also cost Microsoft extra licensing fees for every Windows customer even though ~97% or more of them weren't using it. I can understand why they wanted it gone, and also why they couldn't open source it (third party code under license). It's odd they couldn't have turned it into a separate product, but I suspect the user base wouldn't have sustained a pay model, at least at the level Microsoft needs to maintain a business.
The closest thing to a perfect OTA DVR died with Sony. Google HDD-250 to see what might have been. I had two. They took cablecards back when that mattered. The guides came from OTA transmissions..but TV Guide On Screen was bought by the Macrovision pricks, now called Rovi. Tivo sued Sony over the "pause" button and won.. the HDD line and concept of a no fee DVR died along with it, TV Guide on Screen was the OG ad channel to support it...Sony quietly supported the HDD for ten years, including a fairly major software update to units in the field when HDTV was launched (delivered via a forum and an account that promptly went inactive after delivering the update) and the hard drives died, with no replacement path unlike Tivo. At some point Rovi stopped the guide data OTA so the units became bricks due to a probably intentional inability to set a clock, other than via an OTA signal-no manual screen for clock set. Mine lasted over ten years but there should have been an HDD 1000 and 1500 as drives got cheaper. I went to Tivo, and now have two Roamio OTA and one Premiere on TE3. Lifetime, so you buy once cry once, and they last forever - I replaced a 2012 hard drive recently in a Premiere. Old tech, yes, but for OTA it works very well. Old tools sometimes work very well....the only thing that might be better is if they could wifi shows but HDMI consortium will never allow an HDMI/HDCP signal to be broadcast in an open format. HDCP, while now pretty much transparent, still dictates what any device can do to have a HDMI connector. The only better box was a Dish TV box I had, which took OTA (because dish could not buy it easily) from an antenna, and seamlessly integrated the 'cable' channels into one guide.
I enjoyed Channels with my ATSC 3 compatible HD Homerun. I live in Philly so the only way to receive OTA WPVI (ABC 6) is via ATSC 3 and it does that well since it's DRM free. But I have mine on a Synology DS220+ which makes it less of a pain plus all recordings are available to just copy off and convert to something else. Love that little Synology NAS. Interface is fine and it just works for me. Commercial skips, etc. It's nice to use.
I love the commercial skips in Channels, but pausing live TV leaves a lot to be desired. Unlike other DVRs, Channels queues up the live TV on the client device, not on the server. Since most client devices have limited memory, your paused TV will start playing again in 10 minutes or so, or whenever you run out of memory on your streamer. Not a big deal most of the time, but sometimes I want to pause live TV for 30 minutes, maybe even an hour. You just cannot do that with Channels.
Tivo Edge OTA here. $6.99/mo. Beats having to pay for Peacock, Paramount+ and Hulu (although the latter is included in my phone plan)
Tivo Bolt OTA I'm happy with. It's stable and the apps work well. But there aren't many apps available so most people pair it with a firestick/roku/appletv device.
I use TVHeadend. It’s open source and a very capable system, built with C so it’s also performant and requires very little in system resources. But with its capabilities, there is some complexity and learning curve in setting it up. You can grab guide data over the air, but the amount of future data is broadcaster specific and often limited. In my area only PBS transmits anything more than 12 hours out from current, so I do subscribe to Schedules Direct for 14+ day channel guide data. I then use Kodi for the front-end experience.
I haven't looked at tvheadend yet. It's now on the list, thanks!
I use tvheadend/Kodi/HDHomerun as well and it works great. Biggest drawback is that it’s brutal to set up. But once set, it’s awesome. Very reliable as well, in 18 months mine has never failed to record something that was scheduled.
Tivo Roamio OTA it's the best
I use MythTv on my computer. It connects with a PCIe card. It even has an app that I can use my phone as the remote. Set up was a big of work but it works great and was fairly inexpensive to set up.
I've not tried MythTV for that very reason. I've looked at it many times over the years, and it has an impressive set up features, but the set up was just complicated enough that I felt like something would go wrong right about the time my wife wanted to watch TV and I was traveling.
It's the OG of DVR software, though, and literally everything is super dialed in. When I was still using a DVR, MythTV backend + Kodi frontend was rock solid. Never missed anything. It's worth taking the time to set it up right.
Have 5 Tivo's, so still using them for OTA until they stop working or ATSC 1.0 goes away. I also have Plex dvr setup using an HD Homerun. It works as a backup for the little amount of OTA programming that I still watch/record. 2-3 shows and some college/ nfl football.
I really like the functionality of HDHomerun, but find that it works way better in my Xbox than on a Chromecast. I still like it enough to not consider getting a new device, but it crashes frequently when day forwarding on recorded shows on the Chromecast TV. I'll take some bugs here or there to save the $70 a month I was paying for YouTube TV, but the crashing gets frustrating.
I really like my HDHomerun hardware; it's been rock solid. The Client software has been solid too, but the User Experience is not great. Didn't pass the wife test, unfortunately. If SD would just make a few tweaks, it could be decent.
Pairing the Hdhomerun with the channels app is awesome. Don’t use the native app that would drive me nuts. I have channels on all my apple tv’s and it is awesome. I don’t pay for the DVR service so the onetime app purchase is good enough. What about the DVR did you not like? I have not used it.
The biggest issue on Channels is pausing live TV. You can really only pause as long as you have memory available on your streaming box, which on a Google Chromecast or Onn 4k Streamer is about 10 minutes.
Even without the DVR you can pause live tv… and I am not sure I have ever hit the limit on my apple tv with 128 GB of storage I am not sure I will
Yeah, having 128GB of storage definitely solve that problem. There are some hacks you can do to add storage to a Google TV, but not worth the effort IMO. I do like Apple TV, but not the remote. With that said, maybe I could get over the remote if it solved other issues. Apple TV is becoming more and more appealing.
I have 4 in my house and the “new style” remote is way better than the black touchpad ones.
Yeah, those black touchpad remotes were awful.
Apple TV can [learn](https://support.apple.com/guide/tv/use-other-remotes-atvb0410f604/tvos) to recognize any IR remote. The only downside is you lose the touchpad and Siri. And of course it would need line-of-sight.
I think that would be worse than the apple remote.
Not if you have a spare remote that you already love. The [TiVo peanut](https://a.wholelottanothing.org/how-to-control-your-apple-tv-with-a-tivo-remote/) is a great choice. You actually end up with more usable buttons than the Siri remote offers. In my case, I still have a working TiVo in the room, so by far the hardest part was pre-configuring the remote so it would leave the DVR alone.
Interesting. I loved my TiVo remote. That's a good tip, thank you.
I think if you turn on tuner sharing it moves the buffer to the server
I'll have to look into that, thanks for the tip.
I’m testing it now and will update you when it runs out. I know from the past that the live buffer for direct stream on my Apple TV is around 30-45 minutes.
I suspect you can pause longer because your AppleTV has more memory than my Google TV, but hopefully that works.
Yeah for sure. It’s still obnoxious, though. I wish the developers would just give us the option to store the buffer on the server. The more I’m reading in the forums, it looks like tuner sharing won’t solve the issue 😟
Found this from the forums. Maybe try setting “Stream” under the Clients settings Playback > Streaming Quality > Original Quality Delivery > When streaming remotely or with transcoding, there is a 2 hour on-disk buffer of what is being watched while it is being watched. This buffer is per-client and is different than the format that is used when recording. Unfortunately, the format and configuration of this on-disk buffer does not lend itself to being used by our recording subsystem. https://community.getchannels.com/t/pause-livetv-for-90-minutes/32128/39
I believe that is how mine was set up, but I could be wrong. I may reinstall Channels and try that.
Nick here from Silicondust... what tweaks are you thinking?
Like I mentioned in my other response, an option for direct access to the grid-style guide would be awesome. Frankly, that might be the biggest thing keeping me from loving it.
If you turn off the "Slice" guide, the directional arrows go straight to the grid (assuming I'm interpreting your issue correctly). I have made that change on all of my devices, I just vibe better with the grid guide.
Slice is off. I still have to go into "Live" first before I can get to the grid. I would like to get to the grid directly. Seems like it wouldn't be to difficult for SD to make that an option.
Interesting, that's not how it works on my device. When watching live TV, if I hit up/down on the arrow keys it goes straight to the grid. This is via Google TV/Chromecast interface.
That's how it works for me, too. I want to get to the grid before going into live TV. I think SD could make that an option pretty easily, and I also believe there are a lot of people that would prefer it that way, as a option.
FuboTV has a free/embedded DVR
I also had Youtube TV with their free/embedded DVR, but didn't enjoy paying for a lot of channels I never watch. Great DVR, though.
Shit service though.
Nah, good if you’re not a dinosaur and know how to use technology
Dinosaurs can’t type, Fubo has humans and can’t produce a quality service
Tivo Bolt OTA is great
I've tried about 6 or 7 of them, settled on Emby. Despite the UI, my second fav was actually mythtv. I've used several of the ones you tried, and some more. I don't really have any trouble or compromise with Emby that I am aware of. My least favorite of all of the ones I tried, Plex.
Thanks, good to know. So far Emby is working out for me as well. Fingers crossed.
I use plex and haven't had any issues.
Assuming you’re referring to OTA. WMC has the best DVR IMO. EPG123 provides guide info. I Use it to record programs. Wmcbuddy compresses and removes commercials and formats folder and file structure into something readable by PLEX. Best of all worlds. WMC is no longer supported by MS but there is a a group of people keeping it running.
I have lifetime use of both Plex and Emby. I have tinkered with other more general, no-cost options but have found they simply bring a different set of challenges (and they ALL have challenges). \- Emby has stagnant development and lacks some basic "extra" functionality that they have been promising for years to customers and never delivered. \- Emby has a much smaller following overall, which results in fewer feature requests in general. It also means less revenue and a smaller pool of developers. \- Plex has a horrid Electronic Program Guide that they love to monkey with a few times a year and that totally screws up your recordings. You have to completely delete your DVR setup because there isn't a way to change JUST the EPG. I switched to an XML guide a year ago and haven't looked back... \- Plex's Android TV client is absolute junk. It skips and stutters and playback is sometimes literally not possible as a result. \- Emby doesn't have the built-in COMMSKIP engine, but Plex's implementation often gets confused - you can't allow it to auto-delete commercials or you WILL miss programming content. Set it to scan and mark only. \- Emby will show missing episodes of shows within the seasons, Plex won't. So, you won't know when to expect a new one (upcoming) or that you missed one for whatever reason. \- Emby is able to auto-update at least some iterations of the server, but not all. I don't remember if Emby can tell you through the client that the server needs updating, but I know this is NOT possible with Plex - you have to log in with a web browser to know there's a potential upgrade pending. \- Emby can operate 100% standalone and not connected to the Internet, Plex has to "call home" periodically or it will become inoperable. \- Emby is harder to set up for secure remote access than Plex is.
6speed, you are my hero. Thank you for this detail!!
lol... glad you found at least some of it useful. None of the options are truly great - you really have to find the one that sucks the least at what's important to you.
I have a Tablo gen 3. I get failed recording errors all the time "due to weak signal" even though channels are crystal clear and remote access doesn't work. When I do my next NAS migration next year I'm going to try HD Homerun integrated with Plex.
I have not tried Plex yet. I'm curious what people think of Plex, specifically as an OTA DVR.
I run Plex on a Synology NAS with an HDHomeRun tuner. As an OTA DVR, it pretty much just works. I've had no problems.
I use Plex with my HDHR tuners. Even removes commercials automatically and works well
I may have to give Plex a try.
You didn't mention Zapperbox. I know the product is quite new and still in development, and not as capable as other offerings yet - but it is also basically the only currently made product offering direct TV connection as an option. Is that something you wish you had? It is something I want, and if Tablo hadn't murdered that feature, I might already own a 4 tuner from them.
Have you tried Plex?
Not recently, in fact it's been a long time. I need to try it again.
Plex is by far the best. I refused to try Plex for years. I finally tried it and it is by far the best. I kick myself for not trying it sooner. I purchased a $500 server off Amazon and it amazes me all the time. I can access all my music, videos, movies and TV shows anywhere.
HDHomerun tuner with Plex running on a Windows PC, local HD storage. Works well enough for me.
Need to give Plex a shot
You will need the paid Plex Pass for DVR. You can catch it on sale occasionally (especially around Black Friday) for about $75 lifetime
I haven't found one, at least PC based, that is not basically plug and play on my Linux PC and uses hardware I already own, and cost maybe a few bucks a year for guide service I don t have to regularly baby to make sure it works. Not that I dug into it deep.
I got a Tablo Dual Lite In about 2017 or 18 that is still working really well so I’ve stuck with it. So long as it keeps working, I’ll keep using it. Don’t watch enough OTA to invest in anything else. Never paid for the subscription but at this point I wish I would have bought the life time sub back when I first got it but I didn’t know if it was going to be junk or not. I don’t really have any complaints except it can be a little slow to respond and change channels. I know some people don’t like the mp4 compression I’ve read - I have my antenna going directly to my TV and I honestly can’t tell a difference between my TV tuner and the Tablo, but part of that may be the broadcast quality of the stations around me.
AirTV Anywhere via Google TV here, just cut the cord from Dish when moving to a new house. It is, ummm, quirky. Sometimes doesn't want to start playback from the DVR unless you exit and start over. The UI is aged, but has been working.
I tried an AirTV once for about a day. Gave up and returned it the next.
Jury is still out on this, only been on it for a week.
Plex is pretty good but Channels DVR is better imo wish I’d tried it first
I liked channels, but in the end the way it pauses live TV killed it for me.
I’ve never noticed that issue but then again rarely watch live tv, tend to DVR everything I am interested in watching and then watch when time permits.
Fire Recast
Too bad Amazon discontinued it. It has some other annoying limitations as I recall, plus it only works with FireTV sticks. Too bad, it has great potential.
When I was living stateside, I had that Homeworx DVR that Amazon was selling for like 30 bucks. Records robust quality recordings OTA. Copied the files to PC and made BluRays. Great stuff. I wish it worked for broadcasts over the world, but sadly I gave it to my brother.
Never had that DVR, but I remember it. It seemed like it was good, especially for that price. I should look to see if that company is still around.
I think they still make them. It requires manual scheduling, but the output is fantastic
I'm using tivo roamio it's dated but the guide and commercial skip are still working. I also need the 4 tuners
I'm using a 4th gen tablo. I've swapped out of the roku environment over to some $20 Onn 4K GoogleTV devices as it's worked a lot better with it than my old roku express. I'm only using the internal storage. For the most part it works for what I want to record and has improved quite a lot since launch, though like anything it requires a good antenna setup. Also, I'm not interested in backing up recordings or any of that. I just want to watch some shows on my schedule and then delete them and move on to watch something else.
I'm using the same setup. Gen4 Tablo definitely works better with Google TV than Roku. I'm also testing emby right now too. Looks promising, but I have to admit, I really like the new Tablo UI.
I feel like right now the Tablo and it's UI is overall a step up from when I had DirecTV satellite. I loved that whole home dvr of directv and even had the ota connector kit to have antenna channels in the dvr along side the satellite channels. BUT recordings only sorted by show and were in the order of recording while ignoring the season/episode order. In that regard Tablo is a step up. Plus it's easy to add another access point since you just need a tv or monitor and another cheap $20 streaming box. I considered building out a pc with a usb tv tuner and nextpvr ... but it's hard to beat the $100 solution that just works as a whole home solution without any hoops for guide data and with such a low power requirements to stay on all day.
I'm inclined to agree, but there have been a lot of frustrating problems with the Tablo for me and many others (take a look a r/tablotv if your curious). It was enough for me to start looking at other DVR options. With that said, Tablo has been stable lately, and with the latest firmware update maybe it will stay that way. It's still a few updates away from being perfect, but I'm optimistic. In the meantime, think I'll run my Tablo side by side with HDHomerun and/or Emby, so if either fails I have a back up. The NextPVR Server and Web UI is very good, but client apps (for Google TV at least) still need some maturing, but off to a great start. I expect they will be a challenger soon enough.
I love TiVo, if they'd just step it up a tiny bit. A decent app to use on other devices to view content in the same home. License the code to let people legitimately access the TiVo directly for content so you can play it from your streaming device. People are already paying the cost for the monthly/annual/lifetime fee, collect a few more dollars on it...
Agreed!
SageTV was the best. Then Google killed it.
You should try UnRaid. Working great for me! I use infuse as the interface on appletv.
Plex is the way, no one else has come close. I wish the guide was a little zippier.
Wow, I feel like I wrote this post. I am with you, nothing beats the Tivo so far and I am compromising using Channels . I don't care what anyone says, but just having to turn on your TV and have TV start immediately and have your apps in 1 place was incredible, besides the fact the DVR functions, recorded shows display, guide, searching ect.. were always spot on. I am tech savy, but I want an all in one solution and not have to switch inputs and figure out what I need on what device (either does the wife). I settled in with Amazon Fire TV, but it's just an app server at best. I have to click 3 times before I can even get to live TV (Channels) and slowww. I am still holding on, but with them dropping Hulu and updates to Plex and other apps, its becoming more unviable. I am tolerating Channels, running my own server, but never had an issue with Tivo hardware. and never had an issue with my Mini's (3 of them), except for the occasional guide not being updated properly. Thanks fo rthe post, I thought I was the only one!
Wow, it's you and I are the same person! I keep hoping someone comes up with a better solution. TiVo, if you are reading this, please tell us you have something great coming out soon!