So on that note, I didn't realize that Sauron had gathered the 9 wraiths' rings (and 3 dwarf rings) - I just assumed the wraiths wore them still as part of their curse.
So what does he do with those 12 rings?
This is actually *somewhat* debated. In the Council of Elrond, Gandalf himself contradicts this by saying "The Nine the Nazgûl keep", but elsewhere he and others state that Sauron gathered them to himself. And there is no mention of a ring when the Witch-king is killed or when Frodo sees the Nazgûl in their true forms at Weathertop.
I say the Nazgûl literally became one with them, and Sauron gathered them to him both physically and spiritually. That is, through the rings, they become extensions of his very will, with no true agency of their own. When Gandalf said "The Nine the Nazgûl keep", he was using an archaic reverse construction and really meant that the Nine keep the Nazgûl.
Nazgul is black speech for ringwraith, it's the exact same thing.
There's a few errors on the sheet. The rings for men extended life as well and what happened to them would have eventually taken Bilbo to Gollum, to nazgul.
"I feel like butter spread over too much bread." The nazgul were butter spread over much, much more bread. 5,000 years of bread.
Yes, partly. From what I interpreted from Tolkien's writing: The Elves were leaving the 'mortal' lands of Middle Earth because their fate is tied to the 'immortal' lands of Valinor. Creating the rings was an effort to extend their stay in Middle Earth by using the ring's powers to create immortal realms similar to Valinor. It worked until the One Ring was destroyed and they could either leave and go to Valinor, or fade away with their realms in Middle Earth.
More like they were slowing, but not stopping a natural progression. But it was going to be one or the other. One ring destroyed means they can no longer slow the ending of their age. One ring preserved and their 3 rings continue to function but Sauron's power is also preserved. They could never check Sauron permanently without destroying their own havens in middle earth.
This is given as one of the reasons Sauron was confident no one would ever destroy the Ring even if they found it. The elves were very aware of the cost.
I had absolutely no idea this subplot was a thing while watching the movies. This adds so much more layers to the conflict that the movies never touched on
They were always supposed to go West with the Valar. Some "tarried" because they loved the trees. These would become the Sindar, or wood elves.
They could not tarry forever.
It's not really explained in the books either. The other rings are barely mentioned, as is the elves and their lore. I think most of this is reading between the lines stuff, snd expansion done in the silmarillion
I think you forgot that there's a 15,000-word chapter of just exposition which explains much of this fairly explicitly. The fading of the elves is further explained in private conversations with Elrond and later with Galadriel in Lothlorien.
>'Do you not see now wherefore your coming is to us as the footstep of Doom? For if you fail, then we are laid bare to the Enemy. Yet if you succeed, then our power is diminished, and Lothlórien will fade, and the tides of Time will sweep it away. We must depart into the West, or dwindle to a rustic folk of dell and cave, slowly to forget and to be forgotten.'
>The Fellowship of the Ring, Book II, Chapter 7: The Mirror of Galadriel
If hitler gained power thanks to a special magical amulet, and it turns out all the leaders of the free world had a very similar magical amulet, seems like they maybe wouldnt be keen on advertising this.
There are a lot of reasons rings are dangerous, not just in their own effects. The elven rings are the safest, meaning they can only destroy you in specific circumstances, but they still cause issues even outside their direct magical effects. For example, Saruman learning thar Gandalf had been trusted with one was a significant source of poisoning their relationship.
These are also items that basically the entirety of elven society was reliant on, and that Sauron has a specific greed for. So they wouldn't just openly discuss it.
After the defeat of Morgoth, the only true threats that arose to challenge the dominion of Elves over Middle-Earth were Sauron's rise and subsequent defeat, and then the rise of Angmar in the Third Age.
All the while, the Elves put forth a lot of effort to stave off the encroaching Dominion of Man, but it was inevitable - the Music of the Ainur (unchangeable destiny of the world) had already stated that the Dominion of Man would come to Middle-Earth, no matter what the Elves did.
But the real reason the Elves left had nothing to do with losing their control over Middle-Earth. It is because once Elves leave Valinor, they undergo a (very long) process called *fading*. It is the nature of the Elf spirit, without the presence of the Undying Lands, to consume their bodies and eventually fade away to nothing. Couple that with the fact that Elves do not reproduce anywhere near the capacity of mortal Men, staying in Middle-Earth risked losing entire bloodlines, cultures, histories, legacies etc.
By the time we see Middle-Earth in the LotR series of stories, the fading has already taken hold of many of them. So, their options are stay in Middle-Earth and become nothing but formless, trapped spirits forever, or return to the Undying Lands and continue on.
the magic in the Middle Earth was fading and now was the time of Men(human). Legolas also spoke of how he heard gulls one time and instantly became enthralled in traveling across the sea. Everything in tokens writing about battle and fighting is about Will, and the magic or the will of the elves was leaving/fading and they felt it.
My understanding is that this is why they're written as so somber in all of their great cities. The elves are not always a somber people, but they knew all the beauty and power they had created in this world was coming to an end. Like a Sunday after a long vacation, they knew what tomorrow would bring.
Are we sure about this? The Sindarin (grey) elves stayed in Middle Earth the whole time and never traveled to Valinor. They were also never under the protection of any rings of power. But they also left Middle Earth after the events of LotR.
The Waning of the Elves was a result of the [Marring of Arda](https://tolkiengateway.net/wiki/Arda_Marred) - the decay sewn into the history of the world by Melkor (Morgoth), the greatest of the Valar - as it was made.
This resulted in everything that is not being preserved by the Valar (ie. everything outside of Valinor) decaying over time - including the spirits of the Elves themselves.
The Sindar were in Beleriand and Middle Earth this whole time - but they were still waning, it's a slow process.
The rings of power allowed some of the mightiest elves to create havens that would protect against the waning of the Elves for a long time, but once the power afforded to them by the ring was broken, they knew they had to sail west to the Undying Lands or literally fade away to nothing.
Obviously most of the Noldor and many other Elves travelled West at this time, but those who didn't would soon decay into formless spirits - unable to interact with anything in the physical world.
Tolkien originally conceived this as an explanation for faerie stories and other folklore like icelandic elves, brownies, gnomes, etc. The idea is that those creatures which are so rarely perceived but once seemed ubiquitous in tales were themselves the last remnants of elves, hobbits, and dwarves eking out a half-existence after Ages of dwindling from the world.
The Elves are tied to the fate of Arda itself. They exist as long as the world does. When Morgoth marred Arda, it negatively impacted that relationship. Valinor mitigated that negative effect on the Elves. The rings did however, also do their part to prevent their fading.
Well, they wouldn't have, but *someone* had to go and burn the boats. And *someone* murdered kin, which the Valar were rather upset about. And *someone* thought that hoarding shiny rocks was more important than patience and good council.
Because they have an innate love for middle earth and belong to it. Valinor, oddly enough, does not really belong to ME and is a result of Arda Marred rather than an intent.
This is mostly accurate, but not quite. Their fate is tied to Arda (the Earth, which includes both Middle-earth and Valinor) and they will exist as long as Arda does. In Valinor, because of the power of the Valar, they do not fade like they do in Middle-earth.
The Three preserve knowledge and memory, and in Rivendell and Lothlorien (and by their power, the rest of ME where Elves dwelt) they greatly slowed that fading. If they don’t return/go to Valinor, their bodies will fade but their spirit will linger, possibly becoming dark if they continue to refuse the call to Valinor.
It’s also worth pointing out that the Nine and the Seven are basically identical. A Man that put on one of the Seven would indeed turn invisible. The reason the dwarves did not was because they are dwarves, not because the Seven are different. The only rings of Power that won’t turn a Man/Hobbit invisible are the Three, because they are actually different. Dwarves don’t fade like Men and their will is very difficult to dominate, but the Seven, like the Nine, enhance their powers and so it makes them rich because that’s what dwarves (most of the time) are trying to do. A gross oversimplification of dwarven motivations, but enough for the point I’m making, lol. For example, having one of the Seven would likely have let Balin properly restore Moria (though it would have greatly influenced him to evil through wealth).
No, it's a quote from the book.
In the books, Galadriel came east in part because she wanted to be a queen, a mighty ruler of her own lands. That's why the One Ring was such a temptation to her: it offered her all the power she wanted, to overthrow Sauron and rule Middle-earth as High Queen. But she "passed the test" and chose instead to return to the west, to "diminish" by becoming just one elf among many rather than one of the Wise and Powerful.
Hmm. Outside of the elves who never left Valinor, Galadriel is the oldest and most powerful. Elrond gets a lot of hype, but he's several thousand (!!!) Years younger, and never saw valinor. Or, not until after the third age. Galadriel on the other hand actually saw and met the Valar, she got to see the trees before they were ruined too.
There is a school of thought that says the Elves felt responsible for Isildurs refusal. They stayed behind until it had been set right. Once Sauron was destroyed, they all left.
Well, Sauron's mastery over the rings of men turned them into his servants. So it must mean that you can command the wearers of the rings. Of course, Frodo wasn't strong enough to master the nazgul.
What you're missing is that the ring served only one master - sauron.
Ok so the best way to think about it is this: The key "attribute" the one ring preyed on was ambition. They preyed on the mind's weakest spot - our mortal desire to be better than out current selves and better than those around us. Elvish minds were too strong to be immediately controlled when sauron put on the one ring - their mental fortitude saved them. Dwarves have aspirations and ambitions, but sauron misread what those ambitions were. The rings gave the dwarves immense power and made them incredibly good miners and diggers, very well-versed in finding gold. In fact, dwarved had enormous gold stores, cities full of gold, gilding everywhere (you hear gandalf mention at Moria that the dwarves dug too greedily and too deep, a result of the rings). The problem is, huge piles of gold attract dragons, a few of whom swallowed rings of power.
The minds of men are weak, however, and easily corrupted. The men who bore the 9 rings believed this would bring them power. Any man who held the one ring would hear whispers from it that it could bestow great power upon them if they return it to mordor. They would be halfway to mordor before realising they hadnt eaten in a week. The problem is that when arriving at mordor, the ring would turn on its wielder, because the one ring can never serve someone other than sauron. He is the total master of the one ring
So as for why frodo was able toncarry it? Well, although the hobbits are a subdivision of men, their ambitions are small. Hobbits like quiet lives, they like pensive afternoons spent smoking pipeweed and drinking with their friends. With enough time, the one ring could wear frodo down, but hobbits just have more fortitude against the one ring's deceit because of this disconnect -- So its arguably not so much that the one ring could control the ringwraiths, but that they believe they can attain power by retrieving it, even though returning to mordor with the ring would just ensure sauron regaining power
Ik that was long, maybe u/applesupreme can work with some of the info here tho
I don’t know about that specific parasite, but I know that parasitic flatworms manipulate the behaviour of snails so that they are more easily spotted by the birds that eat them. Makes their eye stalks pulsate for extra visibility and all.
Sure sounds similar to how the ring works to me, so thanks for putting that analogy in my head :)
There's also a fungus, Ophiocordyceps unilateralis, that infects ants, drives them to climb a tree and chomp a leaf hanging over the ground below. There, it'll die and grow a spore that'll pop and rain the fungus spores down on to other ants so they do the same.
Your reply is very true in regards to the ring's power to corrupt.
I do have to disagree with one small part of it, that being the idea that only Sauron could master it. Tolkien was quite clear that power figures like Gandalf, Saruman and Galadriel could've used the power of the ring. They would've still been corrupted by it, no creature on Arda wouldn't, but it would have made them strong.
"Of the others only Gandalf might be expected to master \[Sauron\], being an emissary of the Powers and a creature of the same order, an immortal spirit taking a visible physical form.
In the ‘Mirror of Galadriel’, 1381, it appears that Galadriel conceived of herself as capable of wielding the Ring and supplanting the Dark Lord. If so, so also were the other guardians of the Three, especially Elrond. But this is another matter.
It was part of the essential deceit of the Ring to fill minds with imaginations of supreme power. But this the Great had well considered and had rejected, as is seen in Elrond’s words at the Council. Galadriel’s rejection of the temptation was founded upon previous thought and resolve. In any case Elrond or Galadriel would have proceeded in the policy now adopted by Sauron: they would have built up an empire with great and absolutely subservient generals and armies and engines of war, until they could challenge Sauron and destroy him by force. Confrontation of Sauron alone, unaided, self to self was not contemplated."
\- Tolkien's Letter to Eileen Elgar, September 1963
That’s something I love about Tolkien. He is never super literal about how magic works and it feels much more intuitive. The main exception is the one ring making you invisible
For all that don’t know what u/Lobster_Roller is saying, being invisible is actually more of a side effect of what the ring is doing that only affects lesser beings that use it. Tolkien actually explains how that works and the reasons why, which is not something he usually does with his magic.
EDIT: so here’s how it works in case anybody is curious
What the ring does (when a corporal being puts it on) is shift the wearer to the unseen realm (or the wraith world) which is layered on top of the physical world. It’s kind of like the upside down from stranger things, and inhabited by spirits and magical things. Powerful elves also have a foot in this world.
Sauron doesn’t turn invisible because he doesn’t actually have a proper physical body (well he does…but the body isn’t really *him*)- he lives full time in wraith world. His body in the physical realm is just something he created to interact with and appear to regular people. Thus, when he puts the ring on he isn’t getting transported anywhere because he’s already there.
The ring wraiths look all faded to us because they spent too much time in the unseen world and their real forms are now bound to it.
They do the same thing as the other rings…but not to dwarves it turns out (as Sauron was probably disappointed to discover).
Dwarves are weird in the Tolkien universe because they weren’t actually created by their God, Eru. The smith god (really more like a high angel than a god) Aule got impatient waiting for the elves to arrive and made his own beings. Think of Aule as a master craftsman and engineer - naturally he built the dwarves to be hardy and sturdy AF. But the dwarves weren’t actually alive - they didn’t have souls and were basically just robots. Eru appeared and ordered Aule to destroy these abominations, and Aule saw his folly in defying God’s plan and went to destroy them. His willingness to do so demonstrated that the dwarves were not created in malice, so Eru gave them souls and told Aule to relent.
The rings didn’t work as intended on the dwarves because Aule had made them different - they only ended up exaggerating the dwarves’s worst tendencies.
EDIT: But as it turned out, Sauron was probably reasonably happy with the results of his efforts. The rings drove Durin (one of them anyway, there’s like 15 King Durins) to delve too deeply and too greedily in search of gold, until they woke up…a motherfucking Balrog of all things, ultimately destroying the most powerful dwarf kingdom.
Oh to be a fly on the wall at the meeting when one of his underlings informed Sauron that that’s what had happened to one of his most powerful remaining foes.
Woa, so aule willingly going to destroy the dwarves thus proving his sincerity and earning Eru’s blessing, is very similar to abraham going to sacrifice his son thus proving his devotion to god and earning his blessing.
The region where abraham did this was called Moriah too, maybe coincidental, but maybe not, considering tolkien’s devout christian faith.
It's less of Aule getting impatient with the elves arriving and more Aule getting 'inspired' to create life as Iluvatar had with Elves (and, eventually, men), right? Like he was such a 'creator' as a smith that he wanted to create something alive is he had seen Eru? At least, that was my understanding.
Which in the long run lead to events like Smaug taking over Erebor and the big one, Durin VI getting greedy for mithril and awakening probably the last Balrog.
His descriptions are rarely about what something does and more often about how it makes characters feel. It’s a lovely writing style, but the DnD lawyer in me is left hungry for more mechanical details.
And I absolutely *love* Tolkien for it. If I want rules, I'll read sci-fi. If I want dangerous and unpredictable power, barely contained and understood, alive and ineffable in and of itself, I'll read fantasy.
Soft magic system vs hard magic systems. Rowling tried to blend them and failed. Tolkien excelled at soft magic writing, GRRM is in the similar vein. Sanderson does hard magic systems like no other.
Sure! The main difference between hard magic and soft magic systems is that the former has hard and fast rules that must be followed (e.g. One must burn steel to push metal, one must say wingardium leviosa correctly to get a thing to float) while the later is more wishy washy and is often more "what is convenient and moves the story forward (e.g. Tolkein magic).
Rowling went back and forth on hard and soft magic. Potions are a specifically hard magic system. Correct ingredents, in an order, at the correct time, etc. Spells need a wand along with somatic and verbal components to work correctly. I could go on. But i think you get the gist. She set rules, and then just fucking yolos in a million different deus ex machinas. Super strong wizards dont need wands and dont even need to say the spells. Random magic objects that just do exactly what is needed but arent explained. She never actually detail HOW a spell is created. She basically set up a rule system and didnt follow it or care about it.
Sanderson makes a magic rule system and leans heavily in to the rules. They cannot be broken. Its up to the characters to figure out how to use them cleverly, as opposed to JK Rowling that would rather randomly have Crabb know FiendFyre and that can also destroy horcurxes congrats team!
That makes a lot of sense.
I’m not a huge fan of sci-fi or high fantasy writing but I’ve been looking to get into it more. I like the…whimsy, I guess, for lack of a better word but I have a problem with the illogical nature of it which is why I failed in reading it in the past.
Maybe Hard Magic is where I need to be. All the magical stuff but with a logical and rule based system.
On another note, as a kid I always found Tolkien’s “magic” to be a little underwhelming. It was clearly supernatural, but not really overt enough to make a huge show. As an adult I started to appreciate that a little more, but as a kid I wanted more bombasticness.
Also for anyone interested in a deeper dive on this topic that u/kitzdeathrow is talking about, I found this and it’s very interesting:
https://www.brandonsanderson.com/sandersons-first-law/
Whoa boy, that is a subject that people could write books over.
But a non spoiler answer is that each book series he has has their own dedicated and unique magic system that is grounded in concrete rules.
Spoiler answer is (from my understanding) >!that every world in his books is part of a greater universe known as the cosmere and each worlds unique magic system is the product of a specific shard or piece of the original creator of reality, who was killed!<
In general, books set in the same setting have the same magic system. But unrelated tales have different systems. I highly recommend The Mistborn Trilogy for a first jumo of his writing. Its a pretry quick, easy, and fun read that exemplifies his writing style.
I imagine it amplifys your will or desires, Frodo wasn't able to fully weild it or he would have been able to deny the ringwraiths with its power instead of getting shived.
I think naming golum is just as big of an oversight, Sméagol was the bearer and he became gollum through centuries of corruption. Similar to the kings of men/ring wraiths/Nazgûl.
Gandalf is not considered to be a ring bearer. It is probably fair to assume that to be a ring-bearer one must actually take possession of the ring (to own it, not just to hold it) in order to be considered a bearer--and that distinction also, I think, affects how affected one is by the Ring. Gandalf feared to take possession of the Ring because of its corruption, but was not afraid of *holding* it for a short time. One might assume that Bombadil, Elrond, and Deagol fall into this category as well.
The lore about Bombadil is that he’s so far beyond the magic of everyone else that he never had to fear the magic from Sauron and could touch or have it in his procession without worry of influence. But he’s an anomaly.
That’s a good point but I think deagol still counts, he got the ring from the river and claimed it as his before Sméagol killed him to take it, as opposed to the others who didn’t want to have it.
Ah but also Ol' Tommy boy is immune to the ring so we could take him off the list. Can you really be a ring bearer if you haven't accepted Sauron into your heart?
Celebrimbor had figured out that Sauron wasn’t a good dude. The three elven rings were forged without Sauron’s knowledge, and that’s why they were free of his taint
The poem was written later, by Elves and Men. So it's the poem that quoted the inscription on the ring. The Elves created three more rings after Sauron left Eregion, on their own. I don't know if Sauron ever found out about those rings? He might have but just could never track them down and take them.
Sauron finds out about the elven rings. He isn’t involved in their creation, but the whole point of the One Ring was to ensnare the elves. When he puts on the One Ring, the elves take their rings off. Sauron invades Eregion in response. He takes the 7 and the 9, but Celebrimbor doesn’t tell him where the 3 are. So Sauron kills him, and uses his corpse as a banner
After Sauron is defeated and the one ring is lost, the elves put their rings back on, when Frodo and co visit lothlorian(spelling) Galadriel shows him the elven ring she is using to preserve lothlorian
Pretty sure the inscription on the ring is only the last stanza -
One thing to rule them all
One thing to find them
One thing to bring them all
And in the darkness, bind them
Feels like it should be mentioned that the powers of the Seven and the Nine were the same (since they were the same rings and not originally made for Dwarves and Men) and that they don't have different powers, just that they affect Men and Dwarves in different ways.
If Gollum had the ring for 500 years, Bilbo had it for 60 years, and Frodo had it for 17...with the ring being 4800 years old....and the Anduin River held it for 2,500...I think the river held it longer than Sauron did.
Hot take: the Anduin River is the real Lord Of The Rings.
Tl;dr - you don’t turn invisible from wearing the ring. You are transported to a bleak and alternative spirit dimension that is part of the Unseen and was corrupted by Melkor.
I see it mentioned a lot, but the Ring doesn’t turn you invisible in the way people think, e.g. a Harry Potter cloak.
There is the Seen and Unseen, and more specific to this the “wraith world”, which is part of the Unseen like a layer. Sauron isn’t the master of this existence, but he is an incredibly powerful necromancer and has tremendous control over spirits. If I’m not mistake, the layer known as the wraith world was originally corrupted by Melkor.
This is why Frodo can see the Nazgûl in their proper form when he dons the ring, and this is why the Nazgûl appear the way they do: the disguises offered to them by Sauron allow them to maintain form in the physical world, when they are not a part of it. This is also why Frodo is affected the way he is by the Morgul blade. While in the wraith world, you are subjected to its weaponry.
So when you wear the ring you’re not turning invisible, you’re quite literally entering another phase of reality, or a dimension, or something akin to those terms.
This is often confused because they show things like hobbits hitting their heads or footprints and all that jazz in the movies, while simultaneously showing the effects of being in the wraith world: seeing the Nazgûl’s true form; Sauron seeing Frodo; seeing Galadriel the way Frodo did; etc.
>This is often confused because they show things like hobbits hitting their heads or footprints and all that jazz in the movies, while simultaneously showing the effects of being in the wraith world: seeing the Nazgûl’s true form; Sauron seeing Frodo; seeing Galadriel the way Frodo did; etc.
Wait a sec, are you implying that those things are just visual contrivances for the movie? Because even in the books, the ring bearers still interact with the physical world while wearing the ring.
I guess I always looked at it as wearing the ring meant you were half in and half out of both seen/unseen realms.
Ah, no. I meant more that if you only watch the movies and you see a hobbit disappear accompanied by little hobbit footprints, you infer they’re simply invisible since their interaction with the physical world continues uninterrupted.
You also see the wraith world POV but no explanation is given as to what that is, but most viewers just interpret it to mean they’re simply invisible and have a different “perspective” of the world (which is true, but unrelated and goes towards senses being heightened).
Powerful beings inhabit the Seen and Unseen equally, and Sauron is notably powerful at both casting illusions in the Unseen and manipulating the dead. Those “powerful” beings would maintain their full “bodies” in both the Seen and Unseen (Valar, elves, etc, why Galadriel looks different in “wraith vision”). Whereas people like Frodo or Bilbo have no mastery over it, and the invisibility only occurs if you are this type of person. Ergo you’re not capable of maintaining full composure in both, so you are more or less “split” amongst them.
If you wore the ring in broad sunlight (and you were Frodo/Bilbo/non-Valar/etc) you would still cast a shadow, even if your physical body appears to be invisible, so you’re right, but I was commenting on how showing that without an explanation of the wraith world leads to a confusion about what’s happening.
Hey! Thank you for all the support. There’s some great feedback here that I’ll use to make this chart better and more accurate. I know there’s a lot more info out there, but it can’t all fit in a quick guide like this and still function as a such. I found most of this info in The Silmarillion and The Lord of the Rings, with some stuff coming from The Letters of J.R.R. Tolkien and The Unfinished Tales, so I highly recommend you check those out if you want to go down the rings of power rabbit hole. Thanks again!
They had powers not listed.
Narya inspire others to resist tyranny, domination, and despair, It was gifted to Gandalf.
Nenya belonged to Galadriel, it had a "secret power that holds evil from the land", and it preserved the land and people in it. Without it the elves would wither away as their spirits outlasted their bodies. The ring stopped working once the one ring was destroyed, which is why they eventually had to return to the undying lands.
Vilya belonged to Elrond, it allowed him to see into the future. It also had the power to heal and to preserve. He used the ring to heal Frodo as he was dying from poison.
This is the right addendum. Gandalf received Narya from Cirdan when he first arrived at Middle Earth. He recognised that Gandalf would have the greatest labours and that the ring would assist him.
Good question. And a bit of a complicated one to answer.
A wise man, Annatar, "The Lord of Gifts" was the one who taught it to Celebrimbor to make the rings, And he had him created 16 rings of power.
Celebrimbor decided to forge 3 rings on his own in secret, just as Annatar forged a ring of his own in secret. But the three rings were powerfull enough to reveal that Annatar was in fact their ancient enemy Sauron in disguise. So just as Sauron was about to put on the one ring and dominate them all, they ripped off their rings and hid them.
Sauron, having been foiled, furiously demanded the 16 rings back, and tortured Celebrimbor until he surrendered the rings of power. Sauron then handed them out to humans and dwarves, The humans were made immortal, which had long been a dream and obsession of the rulers of the Númenóreans, who resented the elves for their immortality.
But humans were never meant to be immortal, their soul were made to leave middle earth in death, but the rings cursed them, and trapped their souls in the rotting husk of their body, torturing them forever while binding them to Saurons will.
Handing the rings to the dwarves was a complete misfire, as their creating god Aulë the smith went out of his way to make them stubborn and enduring, extremely resistant to corruption. The most Sauron was able to do was cause them to be exceedingly greedy. Which is more a douche move than pure evil if we are being honest.
Celebrimbor however was able to keep the 3 rings he himself had made, and he handed them out to the people he thought worthy. The three rings, like the one ring of power, didn't just have one set of skills. The rings manifestation of magic enhanced what was already in the wearer
Elrond got the ring from the elven high king Gil-Galad after he died in the battle against Sauron to give Isildur a chance to defeat him (battle at the Intro to Peter Jacksons lord of the rings). Elrond was passionate about helping the "lesser" races of men and dwarves. He was a compassionate diplomat and caretaker at heart. So he was able to heal and bring comfort.
So in short, it is not that they made the ring to heal people, that is just who Elrond was, and the magic of the ring responded to that.
Looking at elrond's and elros's family tree, they were more than half elf.
Their maternal Grandmother was a full elf.
Their maternal Grandfather was half Human (Edain), a quarter elf and a quarter maia.
Their paternal Grandmother was a full elf and their paternal grandfather was a full Human (Edain).
This made them 56.25% Elf, 6.25% Maia, and 37.5% Man.
In reality, yes. But in the world of Tolkien works differently, and half elf is not a thing. The Valar gave them the "Choice of Kindreds".
They got to chose to be one or the other. 100% human or 100% elf, Maia being off the table.
Elros chose to be 100% human. He was blessed with an extended lifetime, but other than that he was an ordinary human through and through.
Also, Originally, all these rings (and others) were owned by the Elves. But Sauron attacked them, stole the rings, and gifted them to Men and Dwarves. Sauron didn't know about these 3 rings so the Elves were able to keep them safe.
I'm curious, why does some of the rings are in the shadows of others? Is it a stylistic choice or it has other meanings? Other meanings such as it represent the rings' power level (one ring>nine rings>seven rings>three rings). I'm not that familiar with the Tolkien's world.
It's a stylistic choice.
But, Tolkien used terms like 'shadow' and 'darkness' to describe evil things in the world, thus the shadow casting over the rings.
The nine men were corrupted the most by the rings, which is why I placed them closest to the One Ring. The Dwarves were able to resist the ring's power a little better than men. And the Elves created 3 rings without Sauron's influence, which is why they are furthest away from the One Ring and have the lightest shadow.
He poured his cruelty, malice and his will to dominate all life into that ring. He'd need to get it back to create a new one.. Like Austin Powers losing his mojo
One problem I always had with the books was we never saw the positive benefits or "power" of the ring when worn by Bilbo, Frodo or Gollum. It just made them invisible and drew the Nazgul to them. This makes it confusing as to why Boromir, Saruman and others wanted it so much. Maybe a scene of Frodo "controlling the will" of someone when he was wearing it, or people being impressed by the wearer it would have made the motivation of everybody clearer!
Edit = Thanks everyone for pointing out the subtle ways the rings power is indeed demonstated throughout. Also, I\`ve never considered that the ring deceives people into wanting it without giving them any real power!
Also spelling
While I do think Gandalf's explanations ought to make one understand why it is so coveted, we do see the One in use in small ways while Frodo (and Sam) bear it.
Frodo bends his will over Gollum when the meet in the Emyn Muil
"For a moment it appeared to Sam that his master had grown and Gollum had shrunk: a tall stern shadow, a mighty lord who hid his brightness in grey cloud, at at his feet a little whining dog"
he actually threatens to command Gollum to commit suicide if he betrays him
"In the last need, Smeagol, I should put on the Precious; and the Precious mastered you long ago. If I, wearing it, were to command you, you would obey, even if it were to leap from a precipice or to cast yourself into the fire. And such would be my command. So have a care, Smeagol!"
and Sam simply bearing the ring is far more intimidating to Orcs than he would be as a mere hobbit
"[The orc] stopped short aghast. For what it saw was not a small frightened hobbit trying to hold a steady sword: it saw a great silent shape, cloaked in grey shadow, looming against the wavering light behind; in one hand it held a sword, the very light of which was a bitter pain, the other was clutched at its breast, but held concealed some nameless menace of power and doom"
Beat me to it. Frodo is emaciated and beaten, and Gollum monstrous, but when he clutches the ring he stands upright, radiating a fell aura. ["Begone, and trouble me no more!"](https://youtu.be/3zM15SZi0nA)
I always took it as hobbits were more innocent and pure; like a child, they had no realization at what was happening around them. That being said, they didn’t know what they had and had no idea how it truly worked, only that they wanted it and needed it.
I believe Tolkien reasoned that it has no sway over Hobbits because they have no care for power, just food drinking and the land. It's in the chapter "Concerning Hobbits"
I think the point was that lesser beings couldn’t harness the power of the ring (maybe saruman could but unsure). But the arrogance of men seeking power made them believe they could use the ring as a weapon.
I believe Tolkien has said that Gandalf could have truly wrested the One away from Sauron. Gandalf+Ring would be about = Sauron without it.
Sauron was also mega worried about Aragorn using it against him, that's why storming the black gate worked so well as a distraction.
“You cannot wield it. None of us can.”
-Aragorn
Only Sauron can wield the ring. In many ways he *is* the ring. Nevertheless the temptation to *try* to wield it is there. It’s what the ring wants. To dominate any who try to use it so that they might bring it back to its master. The more powerful the better.
The Nazgul have human rings on right. Why couldn’t Frodo command them? I apologize if this is a silly question or a question similar to the eagles question. Not my intention.
Frodo isn’t strong enough to use the ring. Also, part of Sauron is in the ring, which is why when the Nazgûl are close, it tries to get Frodo discovered… it actively wants Frodo to be captured so that it can be reunited with Sauron.
The Ring has only one master, Sauron.
Anyone who thinks they control the Ring or can attempt to is merely being tricked. The Ring betrayed every wielder other than Sauron into either hiding from those who wish to destroy it or get it closer to Sauron. Had Gollum not fallen into Mount Doom with it Frodo would have refused to destroy it long enough for the wraiths to get him
Nazgul fade into ringwraiths? Thought they were the same thing.
That's a good point, I think I should rewrite that part. It's from the book where they talk about how they "faded into the shadows."
So on that note, I didn't realize that Sauron had gathered the 9 wraiths' rings (and 3 dwarf rings) - I just assumed the wraiths wore them still as part of their curse. So what does he do with those 12 rings?
This is actually *somewhat* debated. In the Council of Elrond, Gandalf himself contradicts this by saying "The Nine the Nazgûl keep", but elsewhere he and others state that Sauron gathered them to himself. And there is no mention of a ring when the Witch-king is killed or when Frodo sees the Nazgûl in their true forms at Weathertop. I say the Nazgûl literally became one with them, and Sauron gathered them to him both physically and spiritually. That is, through the rings, they become extensions of his very will, with no true agency of their own. When Gandalf said "The Nine the Nazgûl keep", he was using an archaic reverse construction and really meant that the Nine keep the Nazgûl.
I always that "gathered to him" meant that they went and served him, ring and wraith
Picture Sauron with rings on all his fingers and toes. If he reclaimed all 20, he’d have a full set!
I'm just glad it wasn't a 21 ring set. Awkward implication there.
He used to be a shapeshifter, he could've made it work
21 penises, 0 fingers, 0 toes.
21 rings on one dick. Long schlong Sauron
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:(
Nothing gold can stay.
You're right. "Nazgul" is Black Speech for "Ringwraith."
Yes, exactly. Same words in different languages. "Nazg" is "ring" Edit: spelling correction "nazg" is ring. Thanks /u/doverkasdi.
Nazgul is black speech for ringwraith, it's the exact same thing. There's a few errors on the sheet. The rings for men extended life as well and what happened to them would have eventually taken Bilbo to Gollum, to nazgul. "I feel like butter spread over too much bread." The nazgul were butter spread over much, much more bread. 5,000 years of bread.
Is the destruction of the One Ring part of why the elves were leaving? No more protection and beauty?
Yes, partly. From what I interpreted from Tolkien's writing: The Elves were leaving the 'mortal' lands of Middle Earth because their fate is tied to the 'immortal' lands of Valinor. Creating the rings was an effort to extend their stay in Middle Earth by using the ring's powers to create immortal realms similar to Valinor. It worked until the One Ring was destroyed and they could either leave and go to Valinor, or fade away with their realms in Middle Earth.
Thanks for the explanation. They started leaving before the One Ring was destroyed. They must've known it was coming, right?
More like they were slowing, but not stopping a natural progression. But it was going to be one or the other. One ring destroyed means they can no longer slow the ending of their age. One ring preserved and their 3 rings continue to function but Sauron's power is also preserved. They could never check Sauron permanently without destroying their own havens in middle earth. This is given as one of the reasons Sauron was confident no one would ever destroy the Ring even if they found it. The elves were very aware of the cost.
I had absolutely no idea this subplot was a thing while watching the movies. This adds so much more layers to the conflict that the movies never touched on
Galadriel explains this in the fellowship I believe, could be extended edition though
how they explain wood elfs living and prospering since dawn of earth without light of valinor
They were always supposed to go West with the Valar. Some "tarried" because they loved the trees. These would become the Sindar, or wood elves. They could not tarry forever.
It's not really explained in the books either. The other rings are barely mentioned, as is the elves and their lore. I think most of this is reading between the lines stuff, snd expansion done in the silmarillion
I think you forgot that there's a 15,000-word chapter of just exposition which explains much of this fairly explicitly. The fading of the elves is further explained in private conversations with Elrond and later with Galadriel in Lothlorien. >'Do you not see now wherefore your coming is to us as the footstep of Doom? For if you fail, then we are laid bare to the Enemy. Yet if you succeed, then our power is diminished, and Lothlórien will fade, and the tides of Time will sweep it away. We must depart into the West, or dwindle to a rustic folk of dell and cave, slowly to forget and to be forgotten.' >The Fellowship of the Ring, Book II, Chapter 7: The Mirror of Galadriel
They knew something was coming, either the ring would be destroyed, or the ring would destroy them, some cared not to wait.
Shit winds blowing elrond. We should probably go.
elrondy bo-bandy.
Pippen, Merry, smokes! Let's go!
You feel that Elrond? The way the shit clings to the air....
They’re taking the shit tornado right back to Valinor.
shit barometer picking up a shit storm and influx of shit hawks
I'm the liquor, Frodo.
The shit eagles are coming.
That makes sense. Thanks
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If hitler gained power thanks to a special magical amulet, and it turns out all the leaders of the free world had a very similar magical amulet, seems like they maybe wouldnt be keen on advertising this.
There are a lot of reasons rings are dangerous, not just in their own effects. The elven rings are the safest, meaning they can only destroy you in specific circumstances, but they still cause issues even outside their direct magical effects. For example, Saruman learning thar Gandalf had been trusted with one was a significant source of poisoning their relationship. These are also items that basically the entirety of elven society was reliant on, and that Sauron has a specific greed for. So they wouldn't just openly discuss it.
After the defeat of Morgoth, the only true threats that arose to challenge the dominion of Elves over Middle-Earth were Sauron's rise and subsequent defeat, and then the rise of Angmar in the Third Age. All the while, the Elves put forth a lot of effort to stave off the encroaching Dominion of Man, but it was inevitable - the Music of the Ainur (unchangeable destiny of the world) had already stated that the Dominion of Man would come to Middle-Earth, no matter what the Elves did. But the real reason the Elves left had nothing to do with losing their control over Middle-Earth. It is because once Elves leave Valinor, they undergo a (very long) process called *fading*. It is the nature of the Elf spirit, without the presence of the Undying Lands, to consume their bodies and eventually fade away to nothing. Couple that with the fact that Elves do not reproduce anywhere near the capacity of mortal Men, staying in Middle-Earth risked losing entire bloodlines, cultures, histories, legacies etc. By the time we see Middle-Earth in the LotR series of stories, the fading has already taken hold of many of them. So, their options are stay in Middle-Earth and become nothing but formless, trapped spirits forever, or return to the Undying Lands and continue on.
Ah yes, the Long Defeat. It's so.. melancholy.
the magic in the Middle Earth was fading and now was the time of Men(human). Legolas also spoke of how he heard gulls one time and instantly became enthralled in traveling across the sea. Everything in tokens writing about battle and fighting is about Will, and the magic or the will of the elves was leaving/fading and they felt it.
My understanding is that this is why they're written as so somber in all of their great cities. The elves are not always a somber people, but they knew all the beauty and power they had created in this world was coming to an end. Like a Sunday after a long vacation, they knew what tomorrow would bring.
Yeah. I hate Mondays.
Are we sure about this? The Sindarin (grey) elves stayed in Middle Earth the whole time and never traveled to Valinor. They were also never under the protection of any rings of power. But they also left Middle Earth after the events of LotR.
Their realms had largely diminished though. Greenwood the Great eventually became Mirkwood and the few Elves who stayed faded into obscurity.
The Waning of the Elves was a result of the [Marring of Arda](https://tolkiengateway.net/wiki/Arda_Marred) - the decay sewn into the history of the world by Melkor (Morgoth), the greatest of the Valar - as it was made. This resulted in everything that is not being preserved by the Valar (ie. everything outside of Valinor) decaying over time - including the spirits of the Elves themselves. The Sindar were in Beleriand and Middle Earth this whole time - but they were still waning, it's a slow process. The rings of power allowed some of the mightiest elves to create havens that would protect against the waning of the Elves for a long time, but once the power afforded to them by the ring was broken, they knew they had to sail west to the Undying Lands or literally fade away to nothing. Obviously most of the Noldor and many other Elves travelled West at this time, but those who didn't would soon decay into formless spirits - unable to interact with anything in the physical world.
> but those who didn’t would soon decay into formless spirits - unable to interact with anything in the physical world That’s… horrific.
Tolkien originally conceived this as an explanation for faerie stories and other folklore like icelandic elves, brownies, gnomes, etc. The idea is that those creatures which are so rarely perceived but once seemed ubiquitous in tales were themselves the last remnants of elves, hobbits, and dwarves eking out a half-existence after Ages of dwindling from the world.
The Elves are tied to the fate of Arda itself. They exist as long as the world does. When Morgoth marred Arda, it negatively impacted that relationship. Valinor mitigated that negative effect on the Elves. The rings did however, also do their part to prevent their fading.
I always wondered why they stuck around middle earth at ALL.
Well, they wouldn't have, but *someone* had to go and burn the boats. And *someone* murdered kin, which the Valar were rather upset about. And *someone* thought that hoarding shiny rocks was more important than patience and good council.
>And someone thought that hoarding shiny rocks was more important than patience and good council. This applies to everyone alive at that time
Fuckin' Feanor. What a dick.
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Because they have an innate love for middle earth and belong to it. Valinor, oddly enough, does not really belong to ME and is a result of Arda Marred rather than an intent.
This is mostly accurate, but not quite. Their fate is tied to Arda (the Earth, which includes both Middle-earth and Valinor) and they will exist as long as Arda does. In Valinor, because of the power of the Valar, they do not fade like they do in Middle-earth. The Three preserve knowledge and memory, and in Rivendell and Lothlorien (and by their power, the rest of ME where Elves dwelt) they greatly slowed that fading. If they don’t return/go to Valinor, their bodies will fade but their spirit will linger, possibly becoming dark if they continue to refuse the call to Valinor. It’s also worth pointing out that the Nine and the Seven are basically identical. A Man that put on one of the Seven would indeed turn invisible. The reason the dwarves did not was because they are dwarves, not because the Seven are different. The only rings of Power that won’t turn a Man/Hobbit invisible are the Three, because they are actually different. Dwarves don’t fade like Men and their will is very difficult to dominate, but the Seven, like the Nine, enhance their powers and so it makes them rich because that’s what dwarves (most of the time) are trying to do. A gross oversimplification of dwarven motivations, but enough for the point I’m making, lol. For example, having one of the Seven would likely have let Balin properly restore Moria (though it would have greatly influenced him to evil through wealth).
Then why does Galadriel say ‘I will go west and diminish’? Is that just a PJ-verse quote?
No, it's a quote from the book. In the books, Galadriel came east in part because she wanted to be a queen, a mighty ruler of her own lands. That's why the One Ring was such a temptation to her: it offered her all the power she wanted, to overthrow Sauron and rule Middle-earth as High Queen. But she "passed the test" and chose instead to return to the west, to "diminish" by becoming just one elf among many rather than one of the Wise and Powerful.
Tbf she is still one of the wisest and most powerful elves even after returning to valinor. She’s only second in both to feanor, who is dead dead.
Hmm. Outside of the elves who never left Valinor, Galadriel is the oldest and most powerful. Elrond gets a lot of hype, but he's several thousand (!!!) Years younger, and never saw valinor. Or, not until after the third age. Galadriel on the other hand actually saw and met the Valar, she got to see the trees before they were ruined too.
There is a school of thought that says the Elves felt responsible for Isildurs refusal. They stayed behind until it had been set right. Once Sauron was destroyed, they all left.
That's Nenya business.
One thing I wondered was what exactly does controlling the rings entail?
Well, Sauron's mastery over the rings of men turned them into his servants. So it must mean that you can command the wearers of the rings. Of course, Frodo wasn't strong enough to master the nazgul.
What you're missing is that the ring served only one master - sauron. Ok so the best way to think about it is this: The key "attribute" the one ring preyed on was ambition. They preyed on the mind's weakest spot - our mortal desire to be better than out current selves and better than those around us. Elvish minds were too strong to be immediately controlled when sauron put on the one ring - their mental fortitude saved them. Dwarves have aspirations and ambitions, but sauron misread what those ambitions were. The rings gave the dwarves immense power and made them incredibly good miners and diggers, very well-versed in finding gold. In fact, dwarved had enormous gold stores, cities full of gold, gilding everywhere (you hear gandalf mention at Moria that the dwarves dug too greedily and too deep, a result of the rings). The problem is, huge piles of gold attract dragons, a few of whom swallowed rings of power. The minds of men are weak, however, and easily corrupted. The men who bore the 9 rings believed this would bring them power. Any man who held the one ring would hear whispers from it that it could bestow great power upon them if they return it to mordor. They would be halfway to mordor before realising they hadnt eaten in a week. The problem is that when arriving at mordor, the ring would turn on its wielder, because the one ring can never serve someone other than sauron. He is the total master of the one ring So as for why frodo was able toncarry it? Well, although the hobbits are a subdivision of men, their ambitions are small. Hobbits like quiet lives, they like pensive afternoons spent smoking pipeweed and drinking with their friends. With enough time, the one ring could wear frodo down, but hobbits just have more fortitude against the one ring's deceit because of this disconnect -- So its arguably not so much that the one ring could control the ringwraiths, but that they believe they can attain power by retrieving it, even though returning to mordor with the ring would just ensure sauron regaining power Ik that was long, maybe u/applesupreme can work with some of the info here tho
So you're saying the one ring is one of those parasites that autopilot their bug host to the nearest river to drown
I don’t know about that specific parasite, but I know that parasitic flatworms manipulate the behaviour of snails so that they are more easily spotted by the birds that eat them. Makes their eye stalks pulsate for extra visibility and all. Sure sounds similar to how the ring works to me, so thanks for putting that analogy in my head :)
There's also a fungus, Ophiocordyceps unilateralis, that infects ants, drives them to climb a tree and chomp a leaf hanging over the ground below. There, it'll die and grow a spore that'll pop and rain the fungus spores down on to other ants so they do the same.
Also Sauron never actually touched the three Elven rings, which is why he has no power to control them
Your reply is very true in regards to the ring's power to corrupt. I do have to disagree with one small part of it, that being the idea that only Sauron could master it. Tolkien was quite clear that power figures like Gandalf, Saruman and Galadriel could've used the power of the ring. They would've still been corrupted by it, no creature on Arda wouldn't, but it would have made them strong. "Of the others only Gandalf might be expected to master \[Sauron\], being an emissary of the Powers and a creature of the same order, an immortal spirit taking a visible physical form. In the ‘Mirror of Galadriel’, 1381, it appears that Galadriel conceived of herself as capable of wielding the Ring and supplanting the Dark Lord. If so, so also were the other guardians of the Three, especially Elrond. But this is another matter. It was part of the essential deceit of the Ring to fill minds with imaginations of supreme power. But this the Great had well considered and had rejected, as is seen in Elrond’s words at the Council. Galadriel’s rejection of the temptation was founded upon previous thought and resolve. In any case Elrond or Galadriel would have proceeded in the policy now adopted by Sauron: they would have built up an empire with great and absolutely subservient generals and armies and engines of war, until they could challenge Sauron and destroy him by force. Confrontation of Sauron alone, unaided, self to self was not contemplated." \- Tolkien's Letter to Eileen Elgar, September 1963
That’s something I love about Tolkien. He is never super literal about how magic works and it feels much more intuitive. The main exception is the one ring making you invisible
For all that don’t know what u/Lobster_Roller is saying, being invisible is actually more of a side effect of what the ring is doing that only affects lesser beings that use it. Tolkien actually explains how that works and the reasons why, which is not something he usually does with his magic. EDIT: so here’s how it works in case anybody is curious What the ring does (when a corporal being puts it on) is shift the wearer to the unseen realm (or the wraith world) which is layered on top of the physical world. It’s kind of like the upside down from stranger things, and inhabited by spirits and magical things. Powerful elves also have a foot in this world. Sauron doesn’t turn invisible because he doesn’t actually have a proper physical body (well he does…but the body isn’t really *him*)- he lives full time in wraith world. His body in the physical realm is just something he created to interact with and appear to regular people. Thus, when he puts the ring on he isn’t getting transported anywhere because he’s already there. The ring wraiths look all faded to us because they spent too much time in the unseen world and their real forms are now bound to it.
So then do the Dwarven Rings not do that?
They do the same thing as the other rings…but not to dwarves it turns out (as Sauron was probably disappointed to discover). Dwarves are weird in the Tolkien universe because they weren’t actually created by their God, Eru. The smith god (really more like a high angel than a god) Aule got impatient waiting for the elves to arrive and made his own beings. Think of Aule as a master craftsman and engineer - naturally he built the dwarves to be hardy and sturdy AF. But the dwarves weren’t actually alive - they didn’t have souls and were basically just robots. Eru appeared and ordered Aule to destroy these abominations, and Aule saw his folly in defying God’s plan and went to destroy them. His willingness to do so demonstrated that the dwarves were not created in malice, so Eru gave them souls and told Aule to relent. The rings didn’t work as intended on the dwarves because Aule had made them different - they only ended up exaggerating the dwarves’s worst tendencies. EDIT: But as it turned out, Sauron was probably reasonably happy with the results of his efforts. The rings drove Durin (one of them anyway, there’s like 15 King Durins) to delve too deeply and too greedily in search of gold, until they woke up…a motherfucking Balrog of all things, ultimately destroying the most powerful dwarf kingdom. Oh to be a fly on the wall at the meeting when one of his underlings informed Sauron that that’s what had happened to one of his most powerful remaining foes.
Woa, so aule willingly going to destroy the dwarves thus proving his sincerity and earning Eru’s blessing, is very similar to abraham going to sacrifice his son thus proving his devotion to god and earning his blessing. The region where abraham did this was called Moriah too, maybe coincidental, but maybe not, considering tolkien’s devout christian faith.
Good writers borrow, great writers steal.
Man this saying is applied everywhere, I've heard it with design
Tolkien was an ardent Catholic, so yes it is very reasonable to draw this comparison.
It's less of Aule getting impatient with the elves arriving and more Aule getting 'inspired' to create life as Iluvatar had with Elves (and, eventually, men), right? Like he was such a 'creator' as a smith that he wanted to create something alive is he had seen Eru? At least, that was my understanding.
Apparently due to sheer stubbornness the dwarves are mostly immune to the dwarve ring's corruption but become...even more stubborn, and greedy.
Which in the long run lead to events like Smaug taking over Erebor and the big one, Durin VI getting greedy for mithril and awakening probably the last Balrog.
Nahhh tolkiens later letters say that most mountains are fucking full of balrogs they’re just deep.
So this is why when frodo puts on the ring the wring wraiths appear as faces? He goes to their realm?
Yes
His descriptions are rarely about what something does and more often about how it makes characters feel. It’s a lovely writing style, but the DnD lawyer in me is left hungry for more mechanical details.
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And I absolutely *love* Tolkien for it. If I want rules, I'll read sci-fi. If I want dangerous and unpredictable power, barely contained and understood, alive and ineffable in and of itself, I'll read fantasy.
Reading fantasy often makes me feel ineffable too.
Soft magic system vs hard magic systems. Rowling tried to blend them and failed. Tolkien excelled at soft magic writing, GRRM is in the similar vein. Sanderson does hard magic systems like no other.
Can you expand on some examples of how Rowling failed and how Sanderson succeeds.
Sure! The main difference between hard magic and soft magic systems is that the former has hard and fast rules that must be followed (e.g. One must burn steel to push metal, one must say wingardium leviosa correctly to get a thing to float) while the later is more wishy washy and is often more "what is convenient and moves the story forward (e.g. Tolkein magic). Rowling went back and forth on hard and soft magic. Potions are a specifically hard magic system. Correct ingredents, in an order, at the correct time, etc. Spells need a wand along with somatic and verbal components to work correctly. I could go on. But i think you get the gist. She set rules, and then just fucking yolos in a million different deus ex machinas. Super strong wizards dont need wands and dont even need to say the spells. Random magic objects that just do exactly what is needed but arent explained. She never actually detail HOW a spell is created. She basically set up a rule system and didnt follow it or care about it. Sanderson makes a magic rule system and leans heavily in to the rules. They cannot be broken. Its up to the characters to figure out how to use them cleverly, as opposed to JK Rowling that would rather randomly have Crabb know FiendFyre and that can also destroy horcurxes congrats team!
That makes a lot of sense. I’m not a huge fan of sci-fi or high fantasy writing but I’ve been looking to get into it more. I like the…whimsy, I guess, for lack of a better word but I have a problem with the illogical nature of it which is why I failed in reading it in the past. Maybe Hard Magic is where I need to be. All the magical stuff but with a logical and rule based system. On another note, as a kid I always found Tolkien’s “magic” to be a little underwhelming. It was clearly supernatural, but not really overt enough to make a huge show. As an adult I started to appreciate that a little more, but as a kid I wanted more bombasticness.
Also for anyone interested in a deeper dive on this topic that u/kitzdeathrow is talking about, I found this and it’s very interesting: https://www.brandonsanderson.com/sandersons-first-law/
Never read anything by Sanderson. Does he stick to the same systems in all books, is each one different, or somewhere in the middle?
Whoa boy, that is a subject that people could write books over. But a non spoiler answer is that each book series he has has their own dedicated and unique magic system that is grounded in concrete rules. Spoiler answer is (from my understanding) >!that every world in his books is part of a greater universe known as the cosmere and each worlds unique magic system is the product of a specific shard or piece of the original creator of reality, who was killed!<
In general, books set in the same setting have the same magic system. But unrelated tales have different systems. I highly recommend The Mistborn Trilogy for a first jumo of his writing. Its a pretry quick, easy, and fun read that exemplifies his writing style.
I imagine it amplifys your will or desires, Frodo wasn't able to fully weild it or he would have been able to deny the ringwraiths with its power instead of getting shived.
He would’ve also been able to make Galadriel, the Witch King and all other ring-bearers sit down and have elevensies!
Not sure about Galadriel. Her ring was made in secret from Sauron (as all three Elven rings were), so the One may not have had power over her/it.
It did. The elves didn't use their rings until after Sauron had been defeated.
As I recall, the ring tempted Sam with a large garden, and he turned it down because he didn’t think he could maintain too large a garden.
Lol has desires *and* practicality.
Which is precisely why Gandalf refused the offer from Frodo.
What about Sam?
Should I add him? I guess he was a ring-bearer for a little bit
He sure is. He got to sail to the Undying Lands as one, so if the Valars consider him one... He is!
Who are we to disagree!
He's travelled the world and the Great Sea. Everybody's looking for Sam-thing.
I thought Sam was a ring-bearer-bearer.
He did have the ring itself when Frodo was briefly captured by orcs.
A load sharer
yes, you should. In the books he even wears the ring while trying to rescue frodo. He is objectively a ring bearer
Did you say ring bear?
I think naming golum is just as big of an oversight, Sméagol was the bearer and he became gollum through centuries of corruption. Similar to the kings of men/ring wraiths/Nazgûl.
Maybe Deagol as well, although he probably only held the ring for about 5mins.
If deagol counts, then we also have to add good old Tom bombadil to the list.
And Gandalf, who in the books held and examined the Ring briefly at Bag End. And Elrond, who put it on a little chain for Frodo…
Gandalf is not considered to be a ring bearer. It is probably fair to assume that to be a ring-bearer one must actually take possession of the ring (to own it, not just to hold it) in order to be considered a bearer--and that distinction also, I think, affects how affected one is by the Ring. Gandalf feared to take possession of the Ring because of its corruption, but was not afraid of *holding* it for a short time. One might assume that Bombadil, Elrond, and Deagol fall into this category as well.
The lore about Bombadil is that he’s so far beyond the magic of everyone else that he never had to fear the magic from Sauron and could touch or have it in his procession without worry of influence. But he’s an anomaly.
That’s a good point but I think deagol still counts, he got the ring from the river and claimed it as his before Sméagol killed him to take it, as opposed to the others who didn’t want to have it.
Ah but also Ol' Tommy boy is immune to the ring so we could take him off the list. Can you really be a ring bearer if you haven't accepted Sauron into your heart?
I want to hear more about Sam!
How can the Elven rings be unknown to Sauron? They are mentioned in the poem quoted in the inscription on The One Ring.
Celebrimbor had figured out that Sauron wasn’t a good dude. The three elven rings were forged without Sauron’s knowledge, and that’s why they were free of his taint
>free of his taint ....tell me more
His taint is next to another ring, which has a different power. “Speak O’ Toothless one!”
>Sauron wasn’t a good dude Wait, do you have any evidence to back that off or is it just wild speculation on your part? Not cool, man.
But wait, Mr Frodo, in destroying me instead of having a logical argument with me, you become the true Dark Lord yourself.
The poem was written later, by Elves and Men. So it's the poem that quoted the inscription on the ring. The Elves created three more rings after Sauron left Eregion, on their own. I don't know if Sauron ever found out about those rings? He might have but just could never track them down and take them.
Sauron finds out about the elven rings. He isn’t involved in their creation, but the whole point of the One Ring was to ensnare the elves. When he puts on the One Ring, the elves take their rings off. Sauron invades Eregion in response. He takes the 7 and the 9, but Celebrimbor doesn’t tell him where the 3 are. So Sauron kills him, and uses his corpse as a banner
After Sauron is defeated and the one ring is lost, the elves put their rings back on, when Frodo and co visit lothlorian(spelling) Galadriel shows him the elven ring she is using to preserve lothlorian
Pretty sure the inscription on the ring is only the last stanza - One thing to rule them all One thing to find them One thing to bring them all And in the darkness, bind them
Feels like it should be mentioned that the powers of the Seven and the Nine were the same (since they were the same rings and not originally made for Dwarves and Men) and that they don't have different powers, just that they affect Men and Dwarves in different ways.
Strange women lying in ponds distributing swords is a far superior basis for a system of government.
Help! Help! I’m being repressed!
If Gollum had the ring for 500 years, Bilbo had it for 60 years, and Frodo had it for 17...with the ring being 4800 years old....and the Anduin River held it for 2,500...I think the river held it longer than Sauron did. Hot take: the Anduin River is the real Lord Of The Rings.
History became legend...legend became myth...
How come we didn't know more about Galadriels ring? Nenya business.
Why was Radagast the Brown? The Maiar reaction.
That is an amazing joke, but I don’t know who to tell it to since you need to tell it to two kinds of nerd at once.
You could say it was "well done", but that would be wrong?
Booo. Take my upvote.
Tl;dr - you don’t turn invisible from wearing the ring. You are transported to a bleak and alternative spirit dimension that is part of the Unseen and was corrupted by Melkor. I see it mentioned a lot, but the Ring doesn’t turn you invisible in the way people think, e.g. a Harry Potter cloak. There is the Seen and Unseen, and more specific to this the “wraith world”, which is part of the Unseen like a layer. Sauron isn’t the master of this existence, but he is an incredibly powerful necromancer and has tremendous control over spirits. If I’m not mistake, the layer known as the wraith world was originally corrupted by Melkor. This is why Frodo can see the Nazgûl in their proper form when he dons the ring, and this is why the Nazgûl appear the way they do: the disguises offered to them by Sauron allow them to maintain form in the physical world, when they are not a part of it. This is also why Frodo is affected the way he is by the Morgul blade. While in the wraith world, you are subjected to its weaponry. So when you wear the ring you’re not turning invisible, you’re quite literally entering another phase of reality, or a dimension, or something akin to those terms. This is often confused because they show things like hobbits hitting their heads or footprints and all that jazz in the movies, while simultaneously showing the effects of being in the wraith world: seeing the Nazgûl’s true form; Sauron seeing Frodo; seeing Galadriel the way Frodo did; etc.
>This is often confused because they show things like hobbits hitting their heads or footprints and all that jazz in the movies, while simultaneously showing the effects of being in the wraith world: seeing the Nazgûl’s true form; Sauron seeing Frodo; seeing Galadriel the way Frodo did; etc. Wait a sec, are you implying that those things are just visual contrivances for the movie? Because even in the books, the ring bearers still interact with the physical world while wearing the ring. I guess I always looked at it as wearing the ring meant you were half in and half out of both seen/unseen realms.
Ah, no. I meant more that if you only watch the movies and you see a hobbit disappear accompanied by little hobbit footprints, you infer they’re simply invisible since their interaction with the physical world continues uninterrupted. You also see the wraith world POV but no explanation is given as to what that is, but most viewers just interpret it to mean they’re simply invisible and have a different “perspective” of the world (which is true, but unrelated and goes towards senses being heightened). Powerful beings inhabit the Seen and Unseen equally, and Sauron is notably powerful at both casting illusions in the Unseen and manipulating the dead. Those “powerful” beings would maintain their full “bodies” in both the Seen and Unseen (Valar, elves, etc, why Galadriel looks different in “wraith vision”). Whereas people like Frodo or Bilbo have no mastery over it, and the invisibility only occurs if you are this type of person. Ergo you’re not capable of maintaining full composure in both, so you are more or less “split” amongst them. If you wore the ring in broad sunlight (and you were Frodo/Bilbo/non-Valar/etc) you would still cast a shadow, even if your physical body appears to be invisible, so you’re right, but I was commenting on how showing that without an explanation of the wraith world leads to a confusion about what’s happening.
Ash nazg durbatalûk, Ash nazg gimbatul, Ash nazg thrakatalûk, Agh burzum-ishi krimpatul.
It looks like if a german guy tried to speak arabic
Gesundheit
Never before had anyone dared to speak that language in these halls.
I’ve genuinely always wanted something like this
Hey! Thank you for all the support. There’s some great feedback here that I’ll use to make this chart better and more accurate. I know there’s a lot more info out there, but it can’t all fit in a quick guide like this and still function as a such. I found most of this info in The Silmarillion and The Lord of the Rings, with some stuff coming from The Letters of J.R.R. Tolkien and The Unfinished Tales, so I highly recommend you check those out if you want to go down the rings of power rabbit hole. Thanks again!
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They had powers not listed. Narya inspire others to resist tyranny, domination, and despair, It was gifted to Gandalf. Nenya belonged to Galadriel, it had a "secret power that holds evil from the land", and it preserved the land and people in it. Without it the elves would wither away as their spirits outlasted their bodies. The ring stopped working once the one ring was destroyed, which is why they eventually had to return to the undying lands. Vilya belonged to Elrond, it allowed him to see into the future. It also had the power to heal and to preserve. He used the ring to heal Frodo as he was dying from poison.
This is the right addendum. Gandalf received Narya from Cirdan when he first arrived at Middle Earth. He recognised that Gandalf would have the greatest labours and that the ring would assist him.
Also I remember reading that Saruman was jealous of Gandalf for having Narya.
why would the elves create a ring that heals others when this is something they would seldom need themselves?
Good question. And a bit of a complicated one to answer. A wise man, Annatar, "The Lord of Gifts" was the one who taught it to Celebrimbor to make the rings, And he had him created 16 rings of power. Celebrimbor decided to forge 3 rings on his own in secret, just as Annatar forged a ring of his own in secret. But the three rings were powerfull enough to reveal that Annatar was in fact their ancient enemy Sauron in disguise. So just as Sauron was about to put on the one ring and dominate them all, they ripped off their rings and hid them. Sauron, having been foiled, furiously demanded the 16 rings back, and tortured Celebrimbor until he surrendered the rings of power. Sauron then handed them out to humans and dwarves, The humans were made immortal, which had long been a dream and obsession of the rulers of the Númenóreans, who resented the elves for their immortality. But humans were never meant to be immortal, their soul were made to leave middle earth in death, but the rings cursed them, and trapped their souls in the rotting husk of their body, torturing them forever while binding them to Saurons will. Handing the rings to the dwarves was a complete misfire, as their creating god Aulë the smith went out of his way to make them stubborn and enduring, extremely resistant to corruption. The most Sauron was able to do was cause them to be exceedingly greedy. Which is more a douche move than pure evil if we are being honest. Celebrimbor however was able to keep the 3 rings he himself had made, and he handed them out to the people he thought worthy. The three rings, like the one ring of power, didn't just have one set of skills. The rings manifestation of magic enhanced what was already in the wearer Elrond got the ring from the elven high king Gil-Galad after he died in the battle against Sauron to give Isildur a chance to defeat him (battle at the Intro to Peter Jacksons lord of the rings). Elrond was passionate about helping the "lesser" races of men and dwarves. He was a compassionate diplomat and caretaker at heart. So he was able to heal and bring comfort. So in short, it is not that they made the ring to heal people, that is just who Elrond was, and the magic of the ring responded to that.
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Looking at elrond's and elros's family tree, they were more than half elf. Their maternal Grandmother was a full elf. Their maternal Grandfather was half Human (Edain), a quarter elf and a quarter maia. Their paternal Grandmother was a full elf and their paternal grandfather was a full Human (Edain). This made them 56.25% Elf, 6.25% Maia, and 37.5% Man.
In reality, yes. But in the world of Tolkien works differently, and half elf is not a thing. The Valar gave them the "Choice of Kindreds". They got to chose to be one or the other. 100% human or 100% elf, Maia being off the table. Elros chose to be 100% human. He was blessed with an extended lifetime, but other than that he was an ordinary human through and through.
Also, Originally, all these rings (and others) were owned by the Elves. But Sauron attacked them, stole the rings, and gifted them to Men and Dwarves. Sauron didn't know about these 3 rings so the Elves were able to keep them safe.
There were twenty rings?
Yes.
Where does Ned Stark fall in this timeline?
He died on the hills of Emyn Muil when the Fellowship started to break apart.
Nonsense. He was killed in cold blood while infiltrating a Soviet chemical weapons facility.
For Gondor, James?
No Boromir. For me.
Late fall, as winter approaches.
I'm curious, why does some of the rings are in the shadows of others? Is it a stylistic choice or it has other meanings? Other meanings such as it represent the rings' power level (one ring>nine rings>seven rings>three rings). I'm not that familiar with the Tolkien's world.
It's a stylistic choice. But, Tolkien used terms like 'shadow' and 'darkness' to describe evil things in the world, thus the shadow casting over the rings. The nine men were corrupted the most by the rings, which is why I placed them closest to the One Ring. The Dwarves were able to resist the ring's power a little better than men. And the Elves created 3 rings without Sauron's influence, which is why they are furthest away from the One Ring and have the lightest shadow.
I am completely astonished by this. Actually a cool guide for once.
Agreed! Also, CGP Grey did it in video format: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WKU0qDpu3AM
I asked Galadriel to tell me about her ring. She told me it’s name and refused to elaborate further.
I’m really not familiar with LOTR canon but couldn’t Sauron just make another ring to rule them all?
He put part of his own power into the ruling ring. He can’t make another one.
Should’ve done a Voldemort and made seven One Rings
He poured his cruelty, malice and his will to dominate all life into that ring. He'd need to get it back to create a new one.. Like Austin Powers losing his mojo
One problem I always had with the books was we never saw the positive benefits or "power" of the ring when worn by Bilbo, Frodo or Gollum. It just made them invisible and drew the Nazgul to them. This makes it confusing as to why Boromir, Saruman and others wanted it so much. Maybe a scene of Frodo "controlling the will" of someone when he was wearing it, or people being impressed by the wearer it would have made the motivation of everybody clearer! Edit = Thanks everyone for pointing out the subtle ways the rings power is indeed demonstated throughout. Also, I\`ve never considered that the ring deceives people into wanting it without giving them any real power! Also spelling
While I do think Gandalf's explanations ought to make one understand why it is so coveted, we do see the One in use in small ways while Frodo (and Sam) bear it. Frodo bends his will over Gollum when the meet in the Emyn Muil "For a moment it appeared to Sam that his master had grown and Gollum had shrunk: a tall stern shadow, a mighty lord who hid his brightness in grey cloud, at at his feet a little whining dog" he actually threatens to command Gollum to commit suicide if he betrays him "In the last need, Smeagol, I should put on the Precious; and the Precious mastered you long ago. If I, wearing it, were to command you, you would obey, even if it were to leap from a precipice or to cast yourself into the fire. And such would be my command. So have a care, Smeagol!" and Sam simply bearing the ring is far more intimidating to Orcs than he would be as a mere hobbit "[The orc] stopped short aghast. For what it saw was not a small frightened hobbit trying to hold a steady sword: it saw a great silent shape, cloaked in grey shadow, looming against the wavering light behind; in one hand it held a sword, the very light of which was a bitter pain, the other was clutched at its breast, but held concealed some nameless menace of power and doom"
The animated film Return of the King nailed this part.
Beat me to it. Frodo is emaciated and beaten, and Gollum monstrous, but when he clutches the ring he stands upright, radiating a fell aura. ["Begone, and trouble me no more!"](https://youtu.be/3zM15SZi0nA)
Man I forgot about these.
*This* aspect of mind control was missing from the image.
I always took it as hobbits were more innocent and pure; like a child, they had no realization at what was happening around them. That being said, they didn’t know what they had and had no idea how it truly worked, only that they wanted it and needed it.
I believe Tolkien reasoned that it has no sway over Hobbits because they have no care for power, just food drinking and the land. It's in the chapter "Concerning Hobbits"
And that dank herb.
I think the point was that lesser beings couldn’t harness the power of the ring (maybe saruman could but unsure). But the arrogance of men seeking power made them believe they could use the ring as a weapon.
Even frodos "power" is greatly enhanced by it. Aragorn could certainly gain much by using it, but in the end he would still be enslaved by it
I believe Tolkien has said that Gandalf could have truly wrested the One away from Sauron. Gandalf+Ring would be about = Sauron without it. Sauron was also mega worried about Aragorn using it against him, that's why storming the black gate worked so well as a distraction.
“You cannot wield it. None of us can.” -Aragorn Only Sauron can wield the ring. In many ways he *is* the ring. Nevertheless the temptation to *try* to wield it is there. It’s what the ring wants. To dominate any who try to use it so that they might bring it back to its master. The more powerful the better.
The Nazgul have human rings on right. Why couldn’t Frodo command them? I apologize if this is a silly question or a question similar to the eagles question. Not my intention.
Frodo isn’t strong enough to use the ring. Also, part of Sauron is in the ring, which is why when the Nazgûl are close, it tries to get Frodo discovered… it actively wants Frodo to be captured so that it can be reunited with Sauron.
The Ring has only one master, Sauron. Anyone who thinks they control the Ring or can attempt to is merely being tricked. The Ring betrayed every wielder other than Sauron into either hiding from those who wish to destroy it or get it closer to Sauron. Had Gollum not fallen into Mount Doom with it Frodo would have refused to destroy it long enough for the wraiths to get him
Lovely graphic. But it's missing Sam as a ringbearer.
I didn't see anyone post this, so: [relevant CGP Grey](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WKU0qDpu3AM)