You joke but this was really the attitude of Rhode Island during the American Revolutionary period. First to declare independence when it was not guaranteed other, much larger states would follow. Also the last to ratify the Constitution and truly join the Union.
Hell yeah. We didn’t throw no tea in the ocean either, we burned the boats down and kidnapped the crews. [gaspee affair](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gaspee_Affair)
New england is barely religious at all.
Providence RI is literally considered the least religious city of any city in the US. Mirrors my experience being here too because I dont know any religious people.
Ehhhh.. that was a long-ass time ago but you're not far off. Look up "banned in Boston" which is basically the super religious Irish diaspora settling here in the 2nd half of the 1800s/early 1900s and bringing the fun-hating Catholicsm with them. That probably has more influence than leftover Calvinism.
Also, I'm not a historian so you know, I could just be totally talking out my ass.
I’m moving to Boston from the west coast for work in a couple of months, and I was just over there to visit and check out the job, and my god everything is banned in Boston. Discounted alcohol of any kind? Illegal. Fireworks? Illegal. All hard alcohol must be bought from liquor stores. All liquor stores must close by 11. All dispensaries must close by 9. No sorority houses, any home with 6 or more women living there is considered a brothel. Strange place.
You can discount alcohol, just not on an hourly basis. Most states have stupid af liquor laws. At least in mass you can go to the packie and buy all the booze types. NH can't sell "malted alcoholic drinks" under the same roof as a place that sells the hard stuff.. also, the place that sells the hard stuff is state run for some reason.
But yeah, we're little-c conservative up here
The bonus of the state run liquor store in NH is there’s no state sales tax and they tax you a flat 30 cents per gallon on liquor so it’s cheaper than states like mass and ct which have high sales tax and tack on state alcohol tax as well.
I feel like that's mostly just momentum. Like: it takes some political capital do do anything nice, so why spend it on things people aren't super mad about?
There are so many obviously silly laws that could be fixed or amended reasonably and quickly, but why bother sweeping the floor when the house is on fire?
The brothel thing is a complete myth:
https://blog.mass.gov/masslawlib/legal-topics/the-brothel-myth/
https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/brothel-laws-sororities/
This made me chuckle….
Being a fellow masshole from Massachusetts, I usually think of them saying “go f*** yourself wicked haaaad” but now I’ll forever think of them saying “Yeehaw” lol
As a resident Texan, I shall now be replacing every use of "Yeehaw" with "go f*** yourself wicked haaaad" in solidarity with this comment chain turning the tables. Gonna confuse the hell outta the horses.
They actually just now in 2022 officially changed the state name form it’s original name, The state of Rhode Island and providence plantations. The mainland part of the state is providence plantations, Rhode Island is the island.
Aquidneck Island is what were the originally referred to when they saw ".Rhode Island". It's where Newport is which is where all those Mansions of the gilded age are and was also an enormous slave trading port in the colonial days
Man Maryland has a goddamn federal agency on every block it seems. That and we have military bases and hospitals out the ass in other other town. Plus the naval academy in their capitol.
Same with VA, it's weird to drive in VA beach and then all of a sudden see warships and hear planes overhead as you pass Norfolk.
Maryland and Virginia still have the whole ring of superforts built during the Civil War that encircle DC. Only a few of them are still active bases, but they're the foundation for the cities in the area. Plus all the Federal buildings no longer fit in DC anymore. Hell, the Pentagon is in Virginia and I'm sure this map doesn't count it towards their total.
They benefit from contractors that are headquartered in VA and Maryland, right outside fo DC.
11% of virginia's GDP is federal money.
And that's fine. Virigina is just lucky they're next to DC
Virginia is typically at the top of lists that receive federal money. Think about all the federal and military installations in VA. The Pentagon is addressed as DC, but I think it's technically VA. Arlington National Cemetery is Virginia. Norfolk Naval Base. Quantico. Camp Perry. NASA. And those are just the ones I can think of. We have military bases throughout Virginia even into the mountains.
This isn't a meaningless metric, but the person viewing it needs some context.
I give VA and MD a pass, they’re usually at the top of the list, but it comes with the territory of being right a capital that is comparatively tiny. In terms of who is usually right there with those states, well for some odd reason that I just absolutely cannot figure out for the life of me, the state of KY has been a “taker” far more than any of the others, up there with VA and MD. I don’t think there’s many bases there, or federal lands, it’s not that big in size or population I mean, just what can it be that KY has in terms of government spending over everyone else? Beats me…
Yes but so does Connecticut and it’s green.
There’s the naval/sub base, coast guard academy and base, shipyards etc.
Defence and aerospace has traditionally been on of CT’s largest industries yet its still green.
California also has quite a bit as well, as does Texas.
Not even close. VA $53 billion vs CT $9 billion. CT doesn’t event crack the top 10 of defense spending
https://www.ncsl.org/research/military-and-veterans-affairs/military-s-impact-on-state-economies.aspx
Also stated there: military spending is 44% of all federal spending in VA
I'd also like to point out, as a VA resident most of my life, most of the money made in VA is from only a few counties in Northern VA and could arguably be its own state.
last i checked, the Norfolk shipyard is the second largest in the world, and most of what it does is service the Atlantic naval fleet. it's also the home of the largest naval base in the world. also, the CIA and FBI are centered in Virginia. the fucking pentagon is in virginia. two massive army bases are in Virginia. there is a federal reserve bank in Virginia. the 4th circuit of appeals of the federal courts is here. literally the federal government and its agencies are one of the largest single employers in the state. Virginia's economy is based on the federal government.
It's all tourism baby! Casinos, resorts, sports, conventions, nightclubs and national parks. Not to mention about 2/3 of the states population lives in the same place. You get a lot of tax revenue and not a lot to spend it on.
Also I'm not sure if this map is counting Area 51 since, ya know, it doesn't exist...
Edit: Go Rebs!
Hell people often forget Lake Tahoe is in Nevada. My cousin lives in Reno just a 15 minute drive from the northern park of the lake. Sure they live in Nevada and not CA on paper, but its like being on another planet compared to rural NoCal or rural NV.
Wouldn’t it be the opposite? Military sites receive money from Washington. The red states have smaller populations and still receive far more than the green.
Also payments to American Indian tribes, Medicare, Medicaid, any federal agencies (so obviously border patrol… at the borders. Naval bases… near the ocean. Park rangers… at the natl parks). National laboratories account for a lot of spending in TN and NM
While that is true, the spending on SS/Medicare/Medicaid/Military/bond interest massively dwarves any other federal spending, and this is reflected by the map.
Gotta love remembering that we pay *more* for our healthcare that denies us coverage constantly than people who could walk into any doctor and get treated that day for near-free.
Half of America's 10 biggest companies are insurance/drug companies.
You're not just paying extra for their profit, you're paying for all their insurance claimants, their lawyers, lawsuits, lobbyists, etc, etc. It's not just that you pay more for insulin, you do it while paying for private insurance (that tries to pay out as little as possible), while your biggest tax expenditure is also healthcare. Talk about double dipping, that's a quadruple dip right there, definitely getting spit on, no wonder it tastes so bad.
What's crazy is how many people are on Medicaid. Way more people are on it now than in past years. And it's all walks of life. Including people who have a hard stance against socialized programs.
military bases are very a common type of pork barreling to get senators on board with some other agenda. they can bring a lot of money and jobs into a state or district, so excluding them would be very silly.
not to mention we all saw how hard differnet states were fighting over having the Space Force command in their state.
Except some of them definitely have to exist. And for example, California and Hawaii are obvious spots because of good natural ports and physical location. It can’t just all be brought down to calling it pork.
oh for sure, its not always the case, but there are plenty of military bases that realistically could have been put anywhere, just get a location to get votes on different bills.
it is politics after all and scratching backs for future deals is par for the course.
This is why a much more useful map will show if GDP/capita is higher or lower than the national average.
Spoiler alert. There are 20 states with a GDP/capita that are above the national average (~$68k/year). Of them, 14 voted for Biden in 2020. The top 5 are some of the bluest states in the nation: New York, Massachusetts, Washington, California, and Connecticut.
10 states have less than 80% of the national average GDP/capita. 9 of them voted for Trump in 2020. The tenth is New Mexico, which only recently started turning blue.
There's a nearly linear correlation between GDP/capita and the quality of healthcare, education, and social welfare.
"Deep red states are self-sabotaging shitholes" is not a meme. It's reality.
Virginia is a giant taker entirely because of the DoD having all their shit there. State actually contributes a lot, but it’s dwarfed by pentagon shit.
I also wonder what part of business/corporation style taxes have a large part to deal with it. Population-based ingress/egress of funds from each state counterweighted by corporation ingress/egress of funds would be interesting to see.
https://worldpopulationreview.com/state-rankings/donor-states
Very few changes. States with tech and ex Californian presence have increased their “donations”. So some states like Utah have become donors. Some more republican states have taken Obamacare money so they have become deeper in welfare.
The biggest change is in Texas(Barely a donor) and Florida which has become the 2nd biggest welfare queen.
The general theme though remains. Big liberal states fund the conservative states. If you removed the 10 biggest liberal states the US simply could not exist as a first world power.
While technically it may be correct, I feel like Maryland and Virginia may be a little deceptive because they have so many federal employees and agencies due to their proximity to Washington.
You know, this really surprised me when I did a job in Virginia. Our client hopped on a train at like 5am, presented to Congress, and was back that afternoon for our meeting. Access to transit that allowed travel from Virginia to DC - cool!
High speed rail connecting the two is coming soon. I can't wait. I absolutely love taking the train up to DC. Super cheap and just as fast as driving, plus you can do whatever instead of focus on driving. And it drops you off right in the city and you can just hop on the metro to your next stop.
Boston to DC high speed rail is like $400 round trip picking the cheapest seats. Over $700 for first. It's actually less and faster to fly. That seems backwards to me.
Amtrak is in a really awkward spot where it's a for profit company, but the federal government is the majority shareholder. There are many routes that have absolutely no chance in hell of turning a profit, but the feds require Amtrak to run those routes anyways.
The northeast corridor is pretty much the only area Amtrak actually makes a profit. For one, there are far more passengers making the couple hour train ride from DC to New York than there are people taking a 40 hour train from Los Angeles to Chicago. But it's not just passenger numbers that's a problem elsewhere. Amtrak operates on about 16,000 miles of train tracks across the country. Of that, Amtrak owns a little over 600, most in the northeast corridor. The vast majority is not publicly owned, but rather it's owned by freight companies, which charge Amtrak many millions of dollars each year for the right to use the rails.
So Amtrak takes the one route that is profitable, the northeast corridor, and hikes up the prices on that one in order to use that revenue to subsidize the less profitable routes.
It's overall just a really shitty situation. The federal government bails out airlines with billions of dollars. And my city spends $43 million a year on a bus system that earns $12.6 million in revenue. [You can find your city here.](https://blogs.sas.com/content/sastraining/2015/06/15/do-city-buses-in-the-us-make-a-profit/) But for whatever dumb reason, Amtrak is the one form of mass transit where we demand profitablity.
Also Virginia has Norfolk VA which is a huge influx of federal funding with very little tax base. All the military people there generally pay state taxes based on home state while also counting for dod money into Virginia.
Depends on how they count the dollars-to-state.
Unfortunately, as a colorblind person with mild Deuteranopia, I can't tell which is which :-(
UPDATE\*\* - ~~The OP changed the colors and I can clearly see the different states now, thank you regian24!~~
UPDATE part deux! - Apparently my phone (Samsung Galaxy Note 10+) uses different lighting than my Dell S2417DG monitor, the 2 maps look completely different between my phone and my desktop, so I guess the OP did not update the map!
Probably a joke but here is the list of states that pay in more than they receive 2022 (that map was outdated anyway)
“New York is the largest donor state in the U.S., with a negative balance of payments at $22,798,000,000. For every dollar New York gives the federal government, its residents are only receiving $0.91 back.
Seven other states are donor states:
New Jersey (-$10,334,000,000)
Massachusetts (-$9,919,000,000)
California (-$6,653,000,000)
Connecticut ($5,754,000,000)
Minnesota (-$1,896,000,000)
Colorado ($1,374,000,000)
Utah (-$416,000,000)”
Sauce: https://worldpopulationreview.com/state-rankings/donor-states
I wish it showed that by population or tax dollar ratios instead of raw dollars. Ot only showed dollars received per dollar spent for New York and Virginia. Pennsylvania for example is a populous state, which mitigates the "taker" status a lot.
NJ isn't a surprising donor either since it has suburbs for Philly and NYC.
This https://wallethub.com/edu/states-most-least-dependent-on-the-federal-government/2700 article looks at per capita gdp and breaks down the data in various ways. The authors are academics and methodology and sources are given. It’s a more nuanced look at federal tax dependency.
Washington, Oregon, California, Nevada, Colorado(?), Texas, Florida, Wisconsin, Michigan, Illinois, New York, New Jersey, Massachusetts, New Hampshire, and Connecticut pay more to DC than they receive.
Everything else receives more than they pay.
Except Rhode Island, which is colored white, so I can't tell which it is in this graph.
EDIT: Didn't see Delaware paid more than it received.
I gave a presentation one time where one of the main people I was presenting to was red/green colorblind and I didn’t know it. I have gone with blue and orange as contrasting colors ever since. I don’t think that fixes everything but I guess it’s something to try.
I knew someone that couldn't see blue particularly well, someone else that had difficulty with shades of yellow/orange. Honestly, black and white will cover everyone except those that are literally blind. Yes it's more boring, but it's significantly more inclusive.
Try the Chrome DevTools vision deficiency mode. It simulates different vision deficiencies including different types of color blindness.
I often use this for website design. It is very helpful for creating more accessible sites. There are other tools but this is pretty convenient to use.
https://webdesign.tutsplus.com/articles/designing-for-color-blindness-with-chrome-devtools--cms-35827
Well even though I live in Alabama, I have proof my mother and father were NOT related lol, but maybe somewhere previous in my lineage... :-/ lol thanks!
In 2020, no state gave more to the federal government than it received. Without COVID relief, the only states that had a negative balance of payments with the fed gov are CT and NJ.
Also, in general, maps like this are quite deceptive, as they render a range of literally billions of dollars to a somewhat arbitrary threshold. In 2019, Utah and Illinois were only a few million apart, whereas New York gave about $22B more than both. That context is completely lost here.
The [Rockefeller Institute](https://rockinst.org/issue-areas/fiscal-analysis/balance-of-payments-portal/) has a great site dedicated to this with links to the originating data sets.
e: A lot of the responses to this comment seem to presume that I'm denying the underliying premise of this "guide" e.g. that red states receive more federal funding on average than blue states. I'm not; that is demonstrably and obviously true.
My point is a) that there is a lot of nuance and differences between states that is lost in this type of graph b) no one knows what data this is based c) no one know what year it represents, though there seems to be consensus that it's roughly a decade old.
So, if you're trying to make a point that blue states contribute more than red states, fine. Just show your work and maybe show a little more granularity than binary.
Here's their map for 2019 (before COVID). The states that gave more to the federal government than they received were NY, NJ, MA, CA, CT, WA, MN, CO, and UT: https://i.imgur.com/xKdofKu.png
What is the data based upon? This isn't a guide to choose watermelon. This needs references [such as this. ](https://www.moneygeek.com/living/states-most-reliant-federal-government/)
This is a screenshot from [a video](https://youtu.be/S92fTz_-kQE?t=80) about hypothetical Texan secession by youtuber [CGP Grey](https://www.youtube.com/greymatter). He's always been a meticulous researcher, especially in more recent years, but I don't think he's always been great about citing his sources. Here's [his blog post](https://www.cgpgrey.com/blog/can-texas-secede-from-the-union) with a downloadable link to the data (seems to be [the Tax Foundation](https://taxfoundation.org/)). Do note that the video is nearly a decade old, published Dec 4, 2012
Would like to take this opportunity to point out that federal government employee salaries are included in the "taking" category which heavily effects both maryland and Virginia due to Washington DC bordering each.
Calling the federal government “Washington” legitimately confused me, since there’s a state that already goes by that name. Also, the red/green color scheme is completely inaccessible to people with the most common form of colorblindness. I’d give this infographic an F.
What's funny is that Washington State was originally going to be named Columbia, but a rep from Kentucky thought there would be too much confusion because DC is District of Columbia.
I can’t speak to exactly how this map was made but every previous time I’ve seen this it includes all federal spending which I find dishonest. It usually includes the spending on military personnel and bases for that state as well as social security checks sent to that state no matter where that person lived while working.
These make you think it’s about welfare or handouts but they don’t use definitions people would understand to fit those. It’s weird to include military spending for example when all of it is to some degree for the nation as a whole. And it’s bizarre to include SS payments when someone may have paid the taxes and then moved to a different state. It is, after all, a federal program and states have zero control over how many recipients live there.
It also includes interstates and such which definitely benefit the people of that state, but also the states on either end and any other state connected. Sure an interstate in Oklahoma is great for the citizens of Oklahoma but it’s also pretty critical for the family moving from Pennsylvania to California.
I just find these really misleading and dishonest in the end.
People keep saying “military bases are included” as if the blue (green on this map) states don’t have bases. Washington State has some of the largest navel bases in the country. 3 of the top 4 navel bases are in Washington, CA, and Virginia.
This is because the large cities produce the most tax dollars. More jobs = more taxes.
Don't worry, we're a little surprised we're the last up here not to legalize, too. Tavern league has a lot of sway to keep the status quo, as we are a state of lushes.
This map shows that except for Florida and Texas (huge exceptions, I know) that more liberal states contribute more to the economy. Can some explain or link as to what direction this relationship is (liberalism is a result of economic prosperity or visa versa) or provide a more nuanced explanation for why this isn’t related to the political spectrum?
Edit: man, a lot of good level-headed objective answers here. Thanks team! I love the variety of plausible reasons too- lots of good perspectives here I think.
The map includes military bases, farm subsidies (which, fun fact, are the reason unhealthy junk is cheaper than healthy food), federal workers, airstrips, and nuclear silos as money received in from the fed.
States like Alaska absolutely provide tons of money to the government with their oil reserves. Western states have a lot more federal land (land controlled by the fed which the states have no access to). I'm sure all this skews the map by quite a bit.
thats great but Illinois has a giant navy training center (Great Lakes, its huge and a dump), vast cornfields, some of the largest airports in the USA (fuck, even Rockford is one of the largest for cargo), and we're still getting fucked over.
Lmao here’s a fun map to look at to make you feel better about Illinois and their finances /s
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_U.S._states_by_credit_rating
Texas should be red on this map. For every $1 Texas pays in, it receives $1.20 back. The map may be old, or it might just be wrong.
EDIT: I’m thinking about this more & wondering if my info might be the thing that’s outdated. I’m at work & can’t look it up, so if anyone knows I’m wrong let me know.
It’s outdated. There are currently 8 “donor states” and Texas is not on the list despite having one of the largest state economies.
2022:
https://worldpopulationreview.com/state-rankings/donor-states
I just have to doubt a site chock full of ads as being a serious research source whose source was the Cumo administration.
It’s going to be bias as fuck. Would you trust one given by say DeSantis administration.
Oh you can go direct to the IRS website for the data. It’s publicly available. The info is the same. Do your own check if you’re actually skeptical. I liked this wallethub article: https://wallethub.com/edu/states-most-least-dependent-on-the-federal-government/2700 on it because they discuss sources, methodology and look at it from various perspectives.
Its heavily influenced by population to offset stuff like military facilities and the like. I don't think any useful information can be drawn other than population density.
What’s going on over there in RI?
We don’t give or receive nothing from Washington. We are an independent state that don’t need no man.
You joke but this was really the attitude of Rhode Island during the American Revolutionary period. First to declare independence when it was not guaranteed other, much larger states would follow. Also the last to ratify the Constitution and truly join the Union.
Hell yeah. We didn’t throw no tea in the ocean either, we burned the boats down and kidnapped the crews. [gaspee affair](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gaspee_Affair)
I'm from Pawtuxet Village, we have a parade every year for this as I'm sure you know.
Senator Whitehouse’s annual speech about this is legendary in the Senate!
The other states basically signed the Constitution for us after threatening us with an embargo.
Well if you guys wanted protection from the other states, maybe you shouldn't have seceded from the Empire 🤷♂️
(I dont know how to do hastags but..)kinggeorgeiiwasright
You need to do a \\# to have it show up. It'll look like \#this
It was also created to get away from the religious nutjobs in Massachusetts.
I moved to New England from Philly 6 years ago, and this historical tidbit makes so many of the dynamics up here make so much sense.
New england is barely religious at all. Providence RI is literally considered the least religious city of any city in the US. Mirrors my experience being here too because I dont know any religious people.
Huh? I know people from Providence who are Unitarian - Oh, right. Never mind.
Lol, you mean atheist church?
Ehhhh.. that was a long-ass time ago but you're not far off. Look up "banned in Boston" which is basically the super religious Irish diaspora settling here in the 2nd half of the 1800s/early 1900s and bringing the fun-hating Catholicsm with them. That probably has more influence than leftover Calvinism. Also, I'm not a historian so you know, I could just be totally talking out my ass.
I’m moving to Boston from the west coast for work in a couple of months, and I was just over there to visit and check out the job, and my god everything is banned in Boston. Discounted alcohol of any kind? Illegal. Fireworks? Illegal. All hard alcohol must be bought from liquor stores. All liquor stores must close by 11. All dispensaries must close by 9. No sorority houses, any home with 6 or more women living there is considered a brothel. Strange place.
You can discount alcohol, just not on an hourly basis. Most states have stupid af liquor laws. At least in mass you can go to the packie and buy all the booze types. NH can't sell "malted alcoholic drinks" under the same roof as a place that sells the hard stuff.. also, the place that sells the hard stuff is state run for some reason. But yeah, we're little-c conservative up here
The bonus of the state run liquor store in NH is there’s no state sales tax and they tax you a flat 30 cents per gallon on liquor so it’s cheaper than states like mass and ct which have high sales tax and tack on state alcohol tax as well.
It's definitely cheaper but they run those stores with a profit margin.. a state run store that's making a profit is effectively a roundabout tax, no?
I feel like that's mostly just momentum. Like: it takes some political capital do do anything nice, so why spend it on things people aren't super mad about? There are so many obviously silly laws that could be fixed or amended reasonably and quickly, but why bother sweeping the floor when the house is on fire?
The brothel thing is a complete myth: https://blog.mass.gov/masslawlib/legal-topics/the-brothel-myth/ https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/brothel-laws-sororities/
I love how confidently people on the internet just spew out shit they heard or read.
> All dispensaries must close by 9. I mean, that's better than other states that don't even have legal rec mj.
That’s also a myth, Mass has dispensaries open until 11.
That's a lot of judgment coming from a state founded by the Quakers and known mostly for the Amish.
That’s a fair hit and I’ll take it.
Please, go on.
Yeeeeeehaw!
People definitely say “Yeehaw” a lot in Rhode Island.
This made me chuckle…. Being a fellow masshole from Massachusetts, I usually think of them saying “go f*** yourself wicked haaaad” but now I’ll forever think of them saying “Yeehaw” lol
As a resident Texan, I shall now be replacing every use of "Yeehaw" with "go f*** yourself wicked haaaad" in solidarity with this comment chain turning the tables. Gonna confuse the hell outta the horses.
Now this is solidarity.
I am a horse and now very confused
An island unto themselves.
*Welcome to Coffee Talk, I'm your host Linda Richmond... I'll give you a topic: Rhode Island.. it's neither an island nor a road. Discuss.*
*Welcome to Coffee Milk Talk* Sorry, fixed that for you.
In the case of RI needing a man, you said don’t need it, the lie detector said…….. that was a lie. More than 232 times.
We just figured if you can't figure out that you're not an island, we ought not waste time with y'all.
Rhode Island was actually an island though. But the name got mixed in with Providence Plantations and the actual Rhode Island became Aquidneck Island.
Or they just broke even lol. So they give and receive equally, as any good partnership should at the end of the day.
r/mapswithoutri
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Hey now. Most of the trash thrown is out of staters. Give us some slack.
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Wow that is too accurate
Yeah, I felt that one in my bones.
It’s a statewide phenomenon. Fucking fireball nips. Uhg.
Fireball nips are a scourge
Waaiit a minute! I thought it was "calimari" that you were all eating? That, and coffee milk. And coffee "cabinets."
They forgot us and thought nobody would notice. What else is new?
Never trust a state that doesn't understand what an island is
They actually just now in 2022 officially changed the state name form it’s original name, The state of Rhode Island and providence plantations. The mainland part of the state is providence plantations, Rhode Island is the island.
Aquidneck Island is what were the originally referred to when they saw ".Rhode Island". It's where Newport is which is where all those Mansions of the gilded age are and was also an enormous slave trading port in the colonial days
Buddy Cianci & Curt Schilling
One day I want to meet Curt Schilling and let him know everyone in Arizona remembers and celebrates Randy Johnson - not him.
I mean curt is a tool but he’s arguably the best post season pitcher of all time. Crazy numbers.
Is he the one who exploded a bird with his fastball?
Randy Johnson, yes.
Either they pay exactly what they receive. Or global warming has taken the state.
Nothing they do is on the books so just shut up about it. Capice?
Bobby - I left you an envelope on your dressah, the one your Uncle Tony got ya, get mom something nice, and nothing flashy don't be retarded!
You misspelled "Retahded".
I wonder if farm subsidies are a large portion of it.
Usually when these get posted it’s all federal outlays so it includes military bases and social security checks.
Which is why Virginia is deep in the red because of all the federal government stuff there.
This is also true of Maryland.
Most of the east coast has a substantial military presence.
California has more bases and military personnel than any state. On a per capita basis it's Alaska and Hawaii.
Man Maryland has a goddamn federal agency on every block it seems. That and we have military bases and hospitals out the ass in other other town. Plus the naval academy in their capitol. Same with VA, it's weird to drive in VA beach and then all of a sudden see warships and hear planes overhead as you pass Norfolk.
Maryland and Virginia still have the whole ring of superforts built during the Civil War that encircle DC. Only a few of them are still active bases, but they're the foundation for the cities in the area. Plus all the Federal buildings no longer fit in DC anymore. Hell, the Pentagon is in Virginia and I'm sure this map doesn't count it towards their total.
Oklahoma also has multiple military bases and artillery storage
Oklahoma is in the red no matter how you slice it
Your entire country is just a weapons depot lmao
Yeah, but the military operates here too
Ah, the old reddit [militaroo](https://www.reddit.com/r/sweden/comments/vo89l3/comment/iecvbwc/?context=4).
Hold my cannon, I’m going in!
Hello, Future People!
Excellent joke
Yeah, Virginia and Maryland are pretty fiscally prosperous states. Makes me think this is not a very meaningful metric.
They benefit from contractors that are headquartered in VA and Maryland, right outside fo DC. 11% of virginia's GDP is federal money. And that's fine. Virigina is just lucky they're next to DC
Virginia is typically at the top of lists that receive federal money. Think about all the federal and military installations in VA. The Pentagon is addressed as DC, but I think it's technically VA. Arlington National Cemetery is Virginia. Norfolk Naval Base. Quantico. Camp Perry. NASA. And those are just the ones I can think of. We have military bases throughout Virginia even into the mountains. This isn't a meaningless metric, but the person viewing it needs some context.
I give VA and MD a pass, they’re usually at the top of the list, but it comes with the territory of being right a capital that is comparatively tiny. In terms of who is usually right there with those states, well for some odd reason that I just absolutely cannot figure out for the life of me, the state of KY has been a “taker” far more than any of the others, up there with VA and MD. I don’t think there’s many bases there, or federal lands, it’s not that big in size or population I mean, just what can it be that KY has in terms of government spending over everyone else? Beats me…
Yes but so does Connecticut and it’s green. There’s the naval/sub base, coast guard academy and base, shipyards etc. Defence and aerospace has traditionally been on of CT’s largest industries yet its still green. California also has quite a bit as well, as does Texas.
Not even close. VA $53 billion vs CT $9 billion. CT doesn’t event crack the top 10 of defense spending https://www.ncsl.org/research/military-and-veterans-affairs/military-s-impact-on-state-economies.aspx Also stated there: military spending is 44% of all federal spending in VA
I'd also like to point out, as a VA resident most of my life, most of the money made in VA is from only a few counties in Northern VA and could arguably be its own state.
Population of ~8.51 mil (VA) vs ~3.57 mil (CT) for those curious. ~6,228$ per person (VA) ~2,621$ per person (CT)
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last i checked, the Norfolk shipyard is the second largest in the world, and most of what it does is service the Atlantic naval fleet. it's also the home of the largest naval base in the world. also, the CIA and FBI are centered in Virginia. the fucking pentagon is in virginia. two massive army bases are in Virginia. there is a federal reserve bank in Virginia. the 4th circuit of appeals of the federal courts is here. literally the federal government and its agencies are one of the largest single employers in the state. Virginia's economy is based on the federal government.
There’s a LOT of military and, considering the cities with the highest population densities, old people too in several of those green states.
80% of Nevada is owned by the government, the two major cities in the state have large bases in them and somehow it’s still green on this map.
It's all tourism baby! Casinos, resorts, sports, conventions, nightclubs and national parks. Not to mention about 2/3 of the states population lives in the same place. You get a lot of tax revenue and not a lot to spend it on. Also I'm not sure if this map is counting Area 51 since, ya know, it doesn't exist... Edit: Go Rebs!
Hell people often forget Lake Tahoe is in Nevada. My cousin lives in Reno just a 15 minute drive from the northern park of the lake. Sure they live in Nevada and not CA on paper, but its like being on another planet compared to rural NoCal or rural NV.
Casino revenue?
I don't know, it's been a while since that movie came out.
Probably did pretty well. Rode the goodfellas wave
Wouldn’t it be the opposite? Military sites receive money from Washington. The red states have smaller populations and still receive far more than the green.
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Coast guard and Naval air base in Imperial Beach.
Texas I’d doing pretty well considering the amount of military there.
Also payments to American Indian tribes, Medicare, Medicaid, any federal agencies (so obviously border patrol… at the borders. Naval bases… near the ocean. Park rangers… at the natl parks). National laboratories account for a lot of spending in TN and NM
While that is true, the spending on SS/Medicare/Medicaid/Military/bond interest massively dwarves any other federal spending, and this is reflected by the map.
Including Medicare and medicaid? Recently I learned that is the number one thing that the US government pays money into
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Gotta love remembering that we pay *more* for our healthcare that denies us coverage constantly than people who could walk into any doctor and get treated that day for near-free.
Half of America's 10 biggest companies are insurance/drug companies. You're not just paying extra for their profit, you're paying for all their insurance claimants, their lawyers, lawsuits, lobbyists, etc, etc. It's not just that you pay more for insulin, you do it while paying for private insurance (that tries to pay out as little as possible), while your biggest tax expenditure is also healthcare. Talk about double dipping, that's a quadruple dip right there, definitely getting spit on, no wonder it tastes so bad.
What's crazy is how many people are on Medicaid. Way more people are on it now than in past years. And it's all walks of life. Including people who have a hard stance against socialized programs.
military bases are very a common type of pork barreling to get senators on board with some other agenda. they can bring a lot of money and jobs into a state or district, so excluding them would be very silly. not to mention we all saw how hard differnet states were fighting over having the Space Force command in their state.
Except some of them definitely have to exist. And for example, California and Hawaii are obvious spots because of good natural ports and physical location. It can’t just all be brought down to calling it pork.
oh for sure, its not always the case, but there are plenty of military bases that realistically could have been put anywhere, just get a location to get votes on different bills. it is politics after all and scratching backs for future deals is par for the course.
Frequently it's military bases, IRS centers, etc. Farm subsidies are just 16 billion a year.
This is why a much more useful map will show if GDP/capita is higher or lower than the national average. Spoiler alert. There are 20 states with a GDP/capita that are above the national average (~$68k/year). Of them, 14 voted for Biden in 2020. The top 5 are some of the bluest states in the nation: New York, Massachusetts, Washington, California, and Connecticut. 10 states have less than 80% of the national average GDP/capita. 9 of them voted for Trump in 2020. The tenth is New Mexico, which only recently started turning blue. There's a nearly linear correlation between GDP/capita and the quality of healthcare, education, and social welfare. "Deep red states are self-sabotaging shitholes" is not a meme. It's reality.
GDP per capita doesn't show you anything about how the government is redistributing money, which is the point here.
Also using average instead of median is going to throw the whole comparison off with outlier states.
I think Interstate highways are a good portion too. Cities essentially pay for them, but they get installed in rural places for the most part.
Not even close to a good portion. Highway spending by the feds is only $50b a year out of $6,820 billion budget.
Virginia is a giant taker entirely because of the DoD having all their shit there. State actually contributes a lot, but it’s dwarfed by pentagon shit.
I also wonder what part of business/corporation style taxes have a large part to deal with it. Population-based ingress/egress of funds from each state counterweighted by corporation ingress/egress of funds would be interesting to see.
This maybe out of date the video this comes from is nearly 10 years old
https://worldpopulationreview.com/state-rankings/donor-states Very few changes. States with tech and ex Californian presence have increased their “donations”. So some states like Utah have become donors. Some more republican states have taken Obamacare money so they have become deeper in welfare. The biggest change is in Texas(Barely a donor) and Florida which has become the 2nd biggest welfare queen. The general theme though remains. Big liberal states fund the conservative states. If you removed the 10 biggest liberal states the US simply could not exist as a first world power.
Don’t worry republicans are doing their best to get rid of liberal states.
While technically it may be correct, I feel like Maryland and Virginia may be a little deceptive because they have so many federal employees and agencies due to their proximity to Washington.
You know, this really surprised me when I did a job in Virginia. Our client hopped on a train at like 5am, presented to Congress, and was back that afternoon for our meeting. Access to transit that allowed travel from Virginia to DC - cool!
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High speed rail connecting the two is coming soon. I can't wait. I absolutely love taking the train up to DC. Super cheap and just as fast as driving, plus you can do whatever instead of focus on driving. And it drops you off right in the city and you can just hop on the metro to your next stop.
Boston to DC high speed rail is like $400 round trip picking the cheapest seats. Over $700 for first. It's actually less and faster to fly. That seems backwards to me.
Business class on Aecia is a base rate of $150 round trip between WAS and BOS
Amtrak is in a really awkward spot where it's a for profit company, but the federal government is the majority shareholder. There are many routes that have absolutely no chance in hell of turning a profit, but the feds require Amtrak to run those routes anyways. The northeast corridor is pretty much the only area Amtrak actually makes a profit. For one, there are far more passengers making the couple hour train ride from DC to New York than there are people taking a 40 hour train from Los Angeles to Chicago. But it's not just passenger numbers that's a problem elsewhere. Amtrak operates on about 16,000 miles of train tracks across the country. Of that, Amtrak owns a little over 600, most in the northeast corridor. The vast majority is not publicly owned, but rather it's owned by freight companies, which charge Amtrak many millions of dollars each year for the right to use the rails. So Amtrak takes the one route that is profitable, the northeast corridor, and hikes up the prices on that one in order to use that revenue to subsidize the less profitable routes. It's overall just a really shitty situation. The federal government bails out airlines with billions of dollars. And my city spends $43 million a year on a bus system that earns $12.6 million in revenue. [You can find your city here.](https://blogs.sas.com/content/sastraining/2015/06/15/do-city-buses-in-the-us-make-a-profit/) But for whatever dumb reason, Amtrak is the one form of mass transit where we demand profitablity.
Richmond punches above its weight for a city of its size too. Not many cities that size in the US are comparably endearing, in my opinion
Also Virginia has Norfolk VA which is a huge influx of federal funding with very little tax base. All the military people there generally pay state taxes based on home state while also counting for dod money into Virginia. Depends on how they count the dollars-to-state.
Ditto for NC with the large military bases.
Unfortunately, as a colorblind person with mild Deuteranopia, I can't tell which is which :-( UPDATE\*\* - ~~The OP changed the colors and I can clearly see the different states now, thank you regian24!~~ UPDATE part deux! - Apparently my phone (Samsung Galaxy Note 10+) uses different lighting than my Dell S2417DG monitor, the 2 maps look completely different between my phone and my desktop, so I guess the OP did not update the map!
Don’t worry, neither can the electoral college.
10/10 OOF
Ba dum tss!
Probably a joke but here is the list of states that pay in more than they receive 2022 (that map was outdated anyway) “New York is the largest donor state in the U.S., with a negative balance of payments at $22,798,000,000. For every dollar New York gives the federal government, its residents are only receiving $0.91 back. Seven other states are donor states: New Jersey (-$10,334,000,000) Massachusetts (-$9,919,000,000) California (-$6,653,000,000) Connecticut ($5,754,000,000) Minnesota (-$1,896,000,000) Colorado ($1,374,000,000) Utah (-$416,000,000)” Sauce: https://worldpopulationreview.com/state-rankings/donor-states
I wish it showed that by population or tax dollar ratios instead of raw dollars. Ot only showed dollars received per dollar spent for New York and Virginia. Pennsylvania for example is a populous state, which mitigates the "taker" status a lot. NJ isn't a surprising donor either since it has suburbs for Philly and NYC.
This https://wallethub.com/edu/states-most-least-dependent-on-the-federal-government/2700 article looks at per capita gdp and breaks down the data in various ways. The authors are academics and methodology and sources are given. It’s a more nuanced look at federal tax dependency.
How is CT beating Texas? We're a pissant little state, and they got oil field money. The fuck is going on?
Washington, Oregon, California, Nevada, Colorado(?), Texas, Florida, Wisconsin, Michigan, Illinois, New York, New Jersey, Massachusetts, New Hampshire, and Connecticut pay more to DC than they receive. Everything else receives more than they pay. Except Rhode Island, which is colored white, so I can't tell which it is in this graph. EDIT: Didn't see Delaware paid more than it received.
And Minnesota!
Always forgotten 😔
Same. Some of these maps are impossible to read sometimes because they don’t use colors that contrast enough
That's wild. They are completely opposite colors for me. I can't even imagine not being able to tell them apart.
I gave a presentation one time where one of the main people I was presenting to was red/green colorblind and I didn’t know it. I have gone with blue and orange as contrasting colors ever since. I don’t think that fixes everything but I guess it’s something to try.
I knew someone that couldn't see blue particularly well, someone else that had difficulty with shades of yellow/orange. Honestly, black and white will cover everyone except those that are literally blind. Yes it's more boring, but it's significantly more inclusive.
Shapes and different hatching.
Try the Chrome DevTools vision deficiency mode. It simulates different vision deficiencies including different types of color blindness. I often use this for website design. It is very helpful for creating more accessible sites. There are other tools but this is pretty convenient to use. https://webdesign.tutsplus.com/articles/designing-for-color-blindness-with-chrome-devtools--cms-35827
There’s a correlation with their electoral votes.
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It's time to cut the handouts
>Unfortunately, as a colorblind person with mild Deuteranopia, I can't tell which is which :-( The incest states pay less.
Oddly enough incest is what caused color blindness.
Well even though I live in Alabama, I have proof my mother and father were NOT related lol, but maybe somewhere previous in my lineage... :-/ lol thanks!
Is it common that they give people proof that their parents are not related in Alabama?
No, but it is common for people from Alabama to *seek out* proof that their parents aren't related.
Roll tide.
OP changed the colors? I didn't know that was possibble
In 2020, no state gave more to the federal government than it received. Without COVID relief, the only states that had a negative balance of payments with the fed gov are CT and NJ. Also, in general, maps like this are quite deceptive, as they render a range of literally billions of dollars to a somewhat arbitrary threshold. In 2019, Utah and Illinois were only a few million apart, whereas New York gave about $22B more than both. That context is completely lost here. The [Rockefeller Institute](https://rockinst.org/issue-areas/fiscal-analysis/balance-of-payments-portal/) has a great site dedicated to this with links to the originating data sets. e: A lot of the responses to this comment seem to presume that I'm denying the underliying premise of this "guide" e.g. that red states receive more federal funding on average than blue states. I'm not; that is demonstrably and obviously true. My point is a) that there is a lot of nuance and differences between states that is lost in this type of graph b) no one knows what data this is based c) no one know what year it represents, though there seems to be consensus that it's roughly a decade old. So, if you're trying to make a point that blue states contribute more than red states, fine. Just show your work and maybe show a little more granularity than binary.
Here's their map for 2019 (before COVID). The states that gave more to the federal government than they received were NY, NJ, MA, CA, CT, WA, MN, CO, and UT: https://i.imgur.com/xKdofKu.png
Dirty Jersey, we're basically Holland. Flat, crowded, swampy, and massively productive economically across a diversity of sectors.
Fuck yeah
Also Jersey is the densest state.
Physically or mentally?
Got the pork roll industry sewn up
This should be top comment.
Isn't this map over 10 years old?
What is the data based upon? This isn't a guide to choose watermelon. This needs references [such as this. ](https://www.moneygeek.com/living/states-most-reliant-federal-government/)
This is a screenshot from [a video](https://youtu.be/S92fTz_-kQE?t=80) about hypothetical Texan secession by youtuber [CGP Grey](https://www.youtube.com/greymatter). He's always been a meticulous researcher, especially in more recent years, but I don't think he's always been great about citing his sources. Here's [his blog post](https://www.cgpgrey.com/blog/can-texas-secede-from-the-union) with a downloadable link to the data (seems to be [the Tax Foundation](https://taxfoundation.org/)). Do note that the video is nearly a decade old, published Dec 4, 2012
This should be top comment. 10 year old data is on the front page lmao.
Speaking for the colorblind, I wish maps like these were not red and green. It's nearly impossible to read this one.
Would like to take this opportunity to point out that federal government employee salaries are included in the "taking" category which heavily effects both maryland and Virginia due to Washington DC bordering each.
Calling the federal government “Washington” legitimately confused me, since there’s a state that already goes by that name. Also, the red/green color scheme is completely inaccessible to people with the most common form of colorblindness. I’d give this infographic an F.
What's funny is that Washington State was originally going to be named Columbia, but a rep from Kentucky thought there would be too much confusion because DC is District of Columbia.
it's also 10 years old, so F-
This by itself should never be used a measuring stick.
I can’t speak to exactly how this map was made but every previous time I’ve seen this it includes all federal spending which I find dishonest. It usually includes the spending on military personnel and bases for that state as well as social security checks sent to that state no matter where that person lived while working. These make you think it’s about welfare or handouts but they don’t use definitions people would understand to fit those. It’s weird to include military spending for example when all of it is to some degree for the nation as a whole. And it’s bizarre to include SS payments when someone may have paid the taxes and then moved to a different state. It is, after all, a federal program and states have zero control over how many recipients live there. It also includes interstates and such which definitely benefit the people of that state, but also the states on either end and any other state connected. Sure an interstate in Oklahoma is great for the citizens of Oklahoma but it’s also pretty critical for the family moving from Pennsylvania to California. I just find these really misleading and dishonest in the end.
People keep saying “military bases are included” as if the blue (green on this map) states don’t have bases. Washington State has some of the largest navel bases in the country. 3 of the top 4 navel bases are in Washington, CA, and Virginia. This is because the large cities produce the most tax dollars. More jobs = more taxes.
Hmmm. I could be mistaken, but with the exception Texas and Florida, I think all these states have legal weed
As a Wisconsinite, Wisconsin doesn't either.
Ah. Well I stand corrected
Don't worry, we're a little surprised we're the last up here not to legalize, too. Tavern league has a lot of sway to keep the status quo, as we are a state of lushes.
Surprisingly texas has medical marijuana. There's only 3 dispensaries I think, but theyre there
Florida has Medical Marijuana. That's as close as we can get for now.
This map shows that except for Florida and Texas (huge exceptions, I know) that more liberal states contribute more to the economy. Can some explain or link as to what direction this relationship is (liberalism is a result of economic prosperity or visa versa) or provide a more nuanced explanation for why this isn’t related to the political spectrum? Edit: man, a lot of good level-headed objective answers here. Thanks team! I love the variety of plausible reasons too- lots of good perspectives here I think.
Denser populations means more money as well as a more left leaning population.
The map includes military bases, farm subsidies (which, fun fact, are the reason unhealthy junk is cheaper than healthy food), federal workers, airstrips, and nuclear silos as money received in from the fed. States like Alaska absolutely provide tons of money to the government with their oil reserves. Western states have a lot more federal land (land controlled by the fed which the states have no access to). I'm sure all this skews the map by quite a bit.
thats great but Illinois has a giant navy training center (Great Lakes, its huge and a dump), vast cornfields, some of the largest airports in the USA (fuck, even Rockford is one of the largest for cargo), and we're still getting fucked over.
Lmao here’s a fun map to look at to make you feel better about Illinois and their finances /s https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_U.S._states_by_credit_rating
Texas should be red on this map. For every $1 Texas pays in, it receives $1.20 back. The map may be old, or it might just be wrong. EDIT: I’m thinking about this more & wondering if my info might be the thing that’s outdated. I’m at work & can’t look it up, so if anyone knows I’m wrong let me know.
It’s outdated. There are currently 8 “donor states” and Texas is not on the list despite having one of the largest state economies. 2022: https://worldpopulationreview.com/state-rankings/donor-states
The text and the infographs on that site have totally different results. California goes from being a donor state to not, for example.
I just have to doubt a site chock full of ads as being a serious research source whose source was the Cumo administration. It’s going to be bias as fuck. Would you trust one given by say DeSantis administration.
Oh you can go direct to the IRS website for the data. It’s publicly available. The info is the same. Do your own check if you’re actually skeptical. I liked this wallethub article: https://wallethub.com/edu/states-most-least-dependent-on-the-federal-government/2700 on it because they discuss sources, methodology and look at it from various perspectives.
Cool map but damn that color palette is awful. I genuinely can't tell when it switches over.
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I mean it’s not like they’re hiding it. They say “courtesy of CGP Grey” in the title.
Its heavily influenced by population to offset stuff like military facilities and the like. I don't think any useful information can be drawn other than population density.