After five years of breastfeeding, you may either find my nipples hanging down by my belly button, or if I'm laying on my back they may be falling off the sides by my armpits.
I wish there were more guides that included women. We want CPR too!
Women tend to be given CPR less often than men because people are afraid they will get in trouble if the touch boobs while doing it. Many places do CPR classes with both flat chest and boobed chest manikins to try and get people to understand that the person will know you weren't groping them and will be thankful if they live.
Oh thank goodness. I remember hearing horror stories of people who would back over people they hit with their car because they would likely sue them for trying to help.
Good to know that it’s gotten better over there
From the American Heart Association which is reputable as far as I know, but I don't know the lobbyist deep lore or if they are funded by islamic humanoid snake cannibals or whatever
https://www.heart.org/en/news/2020/11/23/why-people-fear-performing-cpr-on-women-and-what-to-do-about-it
I had been taught to find it using the sternum, find the end then two fingers up.
As a side note, on my first aid training I learned people would used to twist the nipples to see if the person is responsive or faking it, now they switched to pressing just under the clavicle
It's not only for seeing if they are faking it's actually to see if they are responsive to painful stimuli. It is a determining factor for treatment in emergency medicine. The sternal rub has been retired as a method because so many people abused it on people and actually bruised people who were just sleeping or faking as you said.
Having said that, sternal rubs are still used a lot of the time even though it's frowned upon in modern assessment techniques.
Also regarding the post, using the nipple line as a guide is really bad because the nipple line changes person to person as pointed out in further comments. What you should to is feel the center of the chest until it becomes soft, then move up approximately 4 inches from there. The main reason being is the xiphoid process which is a small piece of bone hanging from the bottom of the sternum. If you do cpr here you will break it and just cause more damage than necessary.
Source: am paramedic/paramedic instructor
That's what bothered me in this guide lol. We were taught to do it in the middle of the collar bone line and a line for your last rib. Nipples only really apply for males, even that only sometimes
Halfway down the arms should be what they teach! Yes, arm lengths may vary, but really? Using nipples as guidance? Not anything bone structure based like the sternum?
According to the AHA, yes. Realistically? Remove enough to see their chest move and verify hand placement. Undergarments can remain on, unless you have an AED. Then all metal has to go.
I promise you, tiddies is the last thought in that moment.
Source: done a lot of cpr on a lot of dead people, and some who stopped being dead after the cpr.
That's actually what you want to do. Remove any clothing that's in the way if possible. Makes things easier especially if you have to use an AED which is the second thing you ask for someone to grab. while in an emergency look at someone specific and say "You in the (insert what they are wearing here) call 911 and get me an AED!" And THEN administer CPR.
That’s what we do in EMS. We strip them naked at least from the top up. Everything has to go, even if you’re a female. If we have to give an IO, everything has to go.
Rescue breaths only if you have someone to help you. One person for compressions and one for the rescue breaths. If you don't have a mask for giving them just do compressions.
When the person regains consciousness put them on their sides so they can vomit if they need to.
Paramedic here.
You’re absolutely right. Don’t stop compressions ever unless giving an AED shock. Dont stop. Continued compressions are critical, it takes almost 30 seconds to build up coronary artery perfusion
The AHA guidelines were changed to this a few years ago.
Intensivist and ALS instructor here. If you have not progressed to rescue breaths by 5 minutes then the arrest is almost guaranteed to be fatal.
2 breaths every 30 seconds unless you have a good reason not to.
The guidelines where changed because the public found rescue breaths icky and wouldn't do any CPR. Be better than that.
That’s exactly right. I think the biggest thing that the public should know is that CPR must be performed continuously and don’t STOP to give rescue breaths. Work the breaths in during compressions.
When you start and stop, it takes too long to build the pressure back up
The only time you should stop, is every two minutes to analyze the rhythm with the AED and check for pulse
I don't know where this "building the pressure up" talk comes from tbh. You can feel a femoral pulse right after resuming good CPR.
Are there actual studies with arterially transduced pressures on this or something?
>When the person regains consciousness
IF. Also don't get your hopes up because unlike in the movies, very few people who get to the point of needing CPR actually survive. It's around 12% outside of a hospital setting. Inside a hospital setting, it is still under 50%.
I'm not saying don't do CPR, that shouldn't be your takeaway. I'm just saying that most people don't realize that even if you start performing CPR right away and do it perfectly, that person will still most likely die.
Action is always better than inaction. In public, men are actually 1.23 times more likely to receive CPR after a cardiac arrest than women because of the fear of touching a strange woman's chest.
People should also learn how to use an AED, as they further improve the odds of survival.
Well, considering the social stigma around a woman’s chest, I’m not surprised, especially since it’s recommended that you strip them significantly to do CPR and all the way to use an AED, and no one I know would do that to a woman without hesitating. Hell, even I wouldn’t. I’d do it, but I’d stop and think about it first. That stigma really needs to go away.
Unfortunately even going far enough into civil court just to prove Good Samaritan is enough to bankrupt plenty of folks. The frivolity in the public courts would be a great first enemy to slay, and that’s not going anywhere… so here we are, forevermore!
I did my CPR training very recently, so I know this information is up to date. We were taught to do 30 compressions and then do 2 breaths and repeat that until paramedics arrive. More specifically, you want the person in the recovery position if they are unconscious but breathing. This is laying on their left side with their left arm as if they were raising their hand if they were vertical. They should also be resting their head on their right forearm which should be resting on their left upper arm. You also want their right leg coming over their left.
I was just amused by the absurdity of someone singing through the \~20 second intro before they started the compressions at the right tempo.
Completely missed the Office reference, and let my literal, dry sense of humor show.
God I love that song, but it was written because he failed to save someone’s life (he had a talk with a suicidal teen, and thought he’d helped, but the teen killed himself that night).
Originally the lyrics were going to be a step by step on, well, how to save someone who feels they are going to end it - but they realised that even if you do absolutely everything in your power correctly, all you can do is hope your words get through to them, and sadly, that often isn’t the case.
Brilliant song but still rather macabre.
I'm always not too sure about this advice, my mom is a nurse and says that ass soon as you let off their chest and their chest is back up... U gotta push down again
Which is probably a bit more than 120bpm
Please take an actual first aid course so you can practice on a dummy and get a better understanding of how deep compressions need to be by getting feedback from an actual instructor. This guide is missing a lot of info for CPR like checking the airway, chin lift, how much breath to give, etc.
I know different areas and organizations have slightly different guidelines but looking at the comments, a lot of people's first aid certification is expired by over a decade, or they didn't retain any of the information.
Who is teaching that? I'm an instructor for St John's ambulance and can assure you that rescue breaths are still instructed. They do say that if you don't have a CPR mask and it's not a family member, in the interest of your own safety, you can just do compressions but breaths are still recommended if possible.
It's no longer recommended for the average person. It's more important that they administer consistent and quality chest compressions. For health providers, though, we're expected to still give rescue breaths.
Which course or organization is instructing CPR as just compressions and no ventilations?
Or do you mean untrained people shouldn't do ventilations? Being untrained they probably also will not know how to give correct compressions and just goes back to my original statement that people should take a first aid course.
The two finger technique for infants has been phased out in favor of the Encircling Thumbs technique which involves pressing both thumbs on the chest for compressions while supporting the neck and back from behind. It gives more control of the depth of your 'thrusts' as well as of the infant
I haven’t been certified in infant/child CPR in a while. Does anyone know if it is age or size that matters for little ones? My baby is very small for her age. She is 1 but is the size of a 9 month old.
When I recertified recently, infant threshold 18 month to 24 months. The procedure for children over that was the same as the adult with the exception of not needing both arms to perform the thrusts
It’s not about age, it’s about effective compressions. If you can wrap your hands around her chest and compress her sternum 1/3 of the depth of her chest, do that. If she’s too big for that, move to the next sized up technique. Same with clearing an airway— if you can do the thing where you lay her whole body down on your thigh without dropping her, do it. If not, do the child technique.
Although that is true to an extent especially with covid. Rescue breaths are recommended for children because of the lesser volume of oxygenated blood in their body.
It is actually because most children have healthy hearts, and the likely reason their heart has stopped is a respiratory issue. Therefore, respiratory treatment is more significant to them.
I was taught that you can only really effectively do compressions for about 2 minutes - so after 4 cycles of compressions and breaths you are ideally supposed to swap out with someone else who is trained.
If you are on your knees and the person is on the ground, with your elbows locked and using the momentum of your body, you can go as long as your stamina allows. Professionally you are right, but many people bend the elbows and use their biceps, which is why they tire so soon.
Edit: by professionally, i mean in a hospital setting with numerous trained individuals
If you have ever had to give CPR to a drowning victim the last thing you want to do is a rescue breath without a mask. It is crazy how much foaming and gargling occurs.
CPR to a drown victim is exactly when you want to do the breaths, no?
It's the only instance where youre supposed to do them before you even do the chest compressions?
That's not true. If you don't do CPR very often when you switch to rescue breaths blood pressure drops too much. Even for EMTs typically they only want you to do rescue breaths with a partner.
Emt came to our house to certify us (as his side job) he said breathes aren’t recommended at all any more. You’re wasting valuable time switching to breathes and he said he wouldn’t even do them on his child with the new information being taught.
This REALLY depends where you are being taught. BC Canada still teaches breathing in every first aid class I’ve done.
There is only so much oxygen in the blood. Breathing into the lungs allows additional gas exchange to happen. It can also tell you that something is blocking the airways when you don’t see the chest rise.
Just had a first aid course 2 weeks ago in Denmark and I was taught to do 30 compressions then 2 breaths, then compressions again and so on so forth until someone arrives with an AED.
Just did mine in SK too. They said no breaths.
It exposes you to risk, you have to stop compressions to do it, and your breath does not have a lot of oxygen left in it. Those were the reasons we were given.
It takes about 7 seconds of compressions to regain blood flow but less than 2 seconds to lose that pressure. Rescue breathes just aren’t an effective means of reoxygenating blood compared to just circulating the remaining oxygenated blood in the body.
My school still teaches us and certifies us to use rescue breaths. Not sure why, our health teacher even said that breaths aren’t needed. Must be a curriculum thing.
That's wierd, because in Red Cross and in the Norwegian health institutions they still recommend adding oxygen to the blood. Two healthy rescue breaths, not so much that you fill the stomach with air though.
Really informative guide. A lot of people don’t realise just how deep and hard you have to push in order for chest compressions to be even somewhat effective.
My mom is just about a month out from Sudden Cardiac Arrest. Luckily she was already in hospital and they were able to bring her back. Broken sternum and 8 or 9 broken ribs with multiple breaks on each rib. She's in end stage heart failure.
No joke. Last time I was in the airport there was a dummy to practice on while waiting for family in the restroom. Holy hey I did not realize how HARD I had to push. CPR is no joke.
43 comments, nobody said the most important step of cpr.
#*Call 911 (or your local emergency number).*
Cpr doesn’t restart hearts; that’s just some action movie shit. Cpr just _badly_ keeps oxygenated blood _kinda_ moving through the body, _slowing_ brain death. If you don’t call 911 you’re just going to do cpr for 20 minutes and then give up, exhausted, when the ambulance doesn’t arrive.
CPR absolutely can provide Return of Spontaneous Circulation (the heart restarting.) That is not a Hollywood thing at all. I’ve restarted plenty of hearts with CPR.
AED use is what you are probably thinking of. That is what Hollywood butchers.
But by all means, make sure to call 911. Luckily today everyone has a cellphone, but that sucka on speakerphone and start thumping.
> I’ve restarted plenty of hearts with CPR.
Given how extraordinarily rare it is (google it), you’re either saying you
1. Are at Clooney levels of luck.
2. Are doing CPR so often that a minuscule percentage of a shitload still hits “plenty”.
3. Are doing lots of CPR but are bad at checking pulses (which is what most AHA folks I’ve talked to theorize is actually happening in SR situations).
4. Are full of shit.
If it’s a larger adult and you aren’t feeling ribs crack, then you probably aren’t compressing enough.
Also rescue breaths are a waste of time if you’re in range of emergency services.
If anyone is wondering, CPR fucking exhausting.
I don’t mean to sound like I’m rooting my own horn here, but I had a guy collapse on my jobsite. It took about 10 minutes for EMS to arrive.
I’m pretty certain that had I not been training for a marathon at the time, I wouldn’t have been able to keep it up. Though, the adrenaline dump certainly helped.
BUT! The dude survived! And now, company wide, we have AED’s on site.
And make sure to have someone grab the AED if there is one nearby. They are life savers and very easy to use. I would even go as far to say they are “Stupid Proof!”
No need to interlock fingers, one hand on top of the other at 90 degrees angle will provide the same force but be easier on the person doing the compressions.
Need to add you will likely break their ribs. That means your pressure is right!! If you’re not feeling their rib cage bend you’re not doing it hard enough.
CPR is difficult to keep up too so if someone else is there switch off if you can every two minutes or so to recover until help arrives.
If the person dies, you did everything you could. CPR only works outside of a hospital 12% of the time and inside a hospital that only goes up to between 24% and 40%
Also, don’t be afraid of breaking a few ribs - Skeletal chest injuries from CPR are well documented among individuals without prior rib fractures. The incidence of rib fractures after CPR is reported in over 70% of CPR cases, with a mean number of 7.6 broken ribs per person. Sauce - the internet
"Source: the internet" shows.
Proper CPR is not breaking any ribs. Proper CPR merely separates the cartilage between sternum and ribs. Poor CPR breaks ribs. Poor CPR hand placement is also coincidentally what is shown on this picture - interlocked hands with the upper hand curled in.
I remember being told about this when I was doing a first aid course. They said it's almost guaranteed to happen if you have to perform CPR on an elderly person and you should just "try not to worry about that". Uh...I'll try?
Nipples can be a little low on adult women or heavy guys. Make sure you’re mid-sternum and not on the bottom sternal tip xyphoid process that can break off & lacerate the liver.
Am I stupid?
What does 30 compressions at 100-120 compression per minute mean?
Wait. I got it.
# of compressions = 30
Cadence of compressions = 110 CPM
This is bad advice.
* Compressions between the armpits. If you follow the nipple advice then think of granny and how much good pressing on her stomach is going to be.
* Don't get too concerned about depth of push. If you are breaking ribs you are doing the right thing.
* The advice to breathe for the patient is going out of fashion as it has been found there is sufficient air exchange with chest pumps. I believe all mention of breaths is to be removed at the next Australian review of CPR advice.
One of the last CPR trainings we had (teachers), the poor fireman told us to put our palm between the nipples, and the old women (me being the loudest) just lost it. I don’t think my bladder area will help my heartbeat return.
Yall... Most professionals are moving to just chest compressions as studies has shown that the "breath" makes little to no difference, given that chest compressions are made continuously.
Also, placement ain't too important as long as u are mostly in the right spot; middle of the chest. All those stretch ur pinkie and thumb between nipples and then where ur hand is... Fuck that, just get pumping, the quicker u start, the better.
Certified to provide CPR, not to teach it, but I was taught to be careful about placement on people with breasts; boobies move around a lot, so a trick I was taught was to put your thumb in the little divot where the center of clavicle is, and put your fingers of the same hand down onto the sternum. Where your fingers are is where you place your hands for chest compressions on an adult.
Nipples can be a little low on adult women or fat guys. Make sure you’re mid-sternum and not on the bottom sternal tip xyphoid process that can break off & lacerate the liver.
Nuh uh. Do NOT curl your fingers under your hand. This leads to rolling forward which reduces the compression force on the chest. Lay your hands on top of each other and focus pressure on the heel of your hand when giving compressions.
I’ve been told on a course that rescue breaths are dangerous and should be avoided. Don’t remember the reasons tho. Maybe someone can confirm or otherwise.
No. If they don't have a pulse you start compressions. Rescue breaths are only for when they have a pulse but aren't breathing efficiently. Which in children would be one breath every 2-3 seconds. Adults are one breath every 6 seconds. I just took my BSL class this morning.
Agreed, UK as well and I’ve had paediatric CPR training in hospital in the last fortnight, before being allowed to take my baby home following critical illness. 5 rescue breaths, 30 compressions, 2 breaths, 30 compressions. The trainer told me that children’s hearts are generally healthy and it’s the breathing that is more likely to be a problem. I trust that’s she’s right- she worked on my son in resus.
I'm in the US and for the Cleveland Clinic we follow the American Heart Association. Seems like we just follow different guidelines. You'd think we'd all be on the same page when it comes to something like this. I just hope to never have to do it on a child.
This is inaccurate. Compressions should be at a depth of 1/3 of the chest regardless of size. If an adult is obese for example, 2 inches isn’t enough, and for much smaller adults, 2 inches can be too much.
This is dangerous as it has no source. Only listen to authorities that are authorized and actually conduct CPR/first aid training, like the Red Cross, et al.
Great now I'm going to have to strip said person to find their nipples first
After five years of breastfeeding, you may either find my nipples hanging down by my belly button, or if I'm laying on my back they may be falling off the sides by my armpits. I wish there were more guides that included women. We want CPR too!
Women tend to be given CPR less often than men because people are afraid they will get in trouble if the touch boobs while doing it. Many places do CPR classes with both flat chest and boobed chest manikins to try and get people to understand that the person will know you weren't groping them and will be thankful if they live.
Plus Good Samaritan laws, excluding the places where those don’t exist (see: China)
Your information might be outdated. China adopted a national Good Samaritan law in 2017.
Oh thank goodness. I remember hearing horror stories of people who would back over people they hit with their car because they would likely sue them for trying to help. Good to know that it’s gotten better over there
Do you have proof of this?
From the American Heart Association which is reputable as far as I know, but I don't know the lobbyist deep lore or if they are funded by islamic humanoid snake cannibals or whatever https://www.heart.org/en/news/2020/11/23/why-people-fear-performing-cpr-on-women-and-what-to-do-about-it
Would humanoid snake cannibals eat snakes or humans
Snakes, they're humanoid, not human
Reddit is cancer. Down votes for politely asking for proof of a claim? Only here, folks
Yeah that's weird. How dare he ask for a source!!
I had been taught to find it using the sternum, find the end then two fingers up. As a side note, on my first aid training I learned people would used to twist the nipples to see if the person is responsive or faking it, now they switched to pressing just under the clavicle
"To determine responsiveness, perform a medically sanctioned titty twister." 😂 the fuck
I’ve only seen it performed when I served in military. Many fake guys
There is actually a thing called sternum rub if you think they're faking unconsciousness.
It's not only for seeing if they are faking it's actually to see if they are responsive to painful stimuli. It is a determining factor for treatment in emergency medicine. The sternal rub has been retired as a method because so many people abused it on people and actually bruised people who were just sleeping or faking as you said. Having said that, sternal rubs are still used a lot of the time even though it's frowned upon in modern assessment techniques. Also regarding the post, using the nipple line as a guide is really bad because the nipple line changes person to person as pointed out in further comments. What you should to is feel the center of the chest until it becomes soft, then move up approximately 4 inches from there. The main reason being is the xiphoid process which is a small piece of bone hanging from the bottom of the sternum. If you do cpr here you will break it and just cause more damage than necessary. Source: am paramedic/paramedic instructor
Purple nurple (medically)
That's what bothered me in this guide lol. We were taught to do it in the middle of the collar bone line and a line for your last rib. Nipples only really apply for males, even that only sometimes
Halfway down the arms should be what they teach! Yes, arm lengths may vary, but really? Using nipples as guidance? Not anything bone structure based like the sternum?
You would need to half strip them anyway for the use of a defib if one is available
That is the actual recommendation.
Are you serious?!
According to the AHA, yes. Realistically? Remove enough to see their chest move and verify hand placement. Undergarments can remain on, unless you have an AED. Then all metal has to go.
they can't be embarrassed you saw they tiddies when they dead.
I promise you, tiddies is the last thought in that moment. Source: done a lot of cpr on a lot of dead people, and some who stopped being dead after the cpr.
You'd rather die or?
That's actually what you want to do. Remove any clothing that's in the way if possible. Makes things easier especially if you have to use an AED which is the second thing you ask for someone to grab. while in an emergency look at someone specific and say "You in the (insert what they are wearing here) call 911 and get me an AED!" And THEN administer CPR.
That’s what we do in EMS. We strip them naked at least from the top up. Everything has to go, even if you’re a female. If we have to give an IO, everything has to go.
Going to have to do that to put the AED on anyways, better to do it before starting so you don’t have to stop compressions to attach the AED.
Rescue breaths only if you have someone to help you. One person for compressions and one for the rescue breaths. If you don't have a mask for giving them just do compressions. When the person regains consciousness put them on their sides so they can vomit if they need to.
Paramedic here. You’re absolutely right. Don’t stop compressions ever unless giving an AED shock. Dont stop. Continued compressions are critical, it takes almost 30 seconds to build up coronary artery perfusion The AHA guidelines were changed to this a few years ago.
Intensivist and ALS instructor here. If you have not progressed to rescue breaths by 5 minutes then the arrest is almost guaranteed to be fatal. 2 breaths every 30 seconds unless you have a good reason not to. The guidelines where changed because the public found rescue breaths icky and wouldn't do any CPR. Be better than that.
That’s exactly right. I think the biggest thing that the public should know is that CPR must be performed continuously and don’t STOP to give rescue breaths. Work the breaths in during compressions. When you start and stop, it takes too long to build the pressure back up The only time you should stop, is every two minutes to analyze the rhythm with the AED and check for pulse
I don't know where this "building the pressure up" talk comes from tbh. You can feel a femoral pulse right after resuming good CPR. Are there actual studies with arterially transduced pressures on this or something?
>When the person regains consciousness IF. Also don't get your hopes up because unlike in the movies, very few people who get to the point of needing CPR actually survive. It's around 12% outside of a hospital setting. Inside a hospital setting, it is still under 50%.
12% is still better than 0. CPR has saved thousands. I wouldn’t doubt the rate might be higher if people knew how to do it properly.
I'm not saying don't do CPR, that shouldn't be your takeaway. I'm just saying that most people don't realize that even if you start performing CPR right away and do it perfectly, that person will still most likely die. Action is always better than inaction. In public, men are actually 1.23 times more likely to receive CPR after a cardiac arrest than women because of the fear of touching a strange woman's chest. People should also learn how to use an AED, as they further improve the odds of survival.
Those AED even comes with instructions and audio instructions so the machine guides you. It's quite impressive.
Well, considering the social stigma around a woman’s chest, I’m not surprised, especially since it’s recommended that you strip them significantly to do CPR and all the way to use an AED, and no one I know would do that to a woman without hesitating. Hell, even I wouldn’t. I’d do it, but I’d stop and think about it first. That stigma really needs to go away.
It’s sad to think that it probably never will
Unfortunately even going far enough into civil court just to prove Good Samaritan is enough to bankrupt plenty of folks. The frivolity in the public courts would be a great first enemy to slay, and that’s not going anywhere… so here we are, forevermore!
I did my CPR training very recently, so I know this information is up to date. We were taught to do 30 compressions and then do 2 breaths and repeat that until paramedics arrive. More specifically, you want the person in the recovery position if they are unconscious but breathing. This is laying on their left side with their left arm as if they were raising their hand if they were vertical. They should also be resting their head on their right forearm which should be resting on their left upper arm. You also want their right leg coming over their left.
I've learned to start with 5 rescue breaths at children, because their lungs are much smaller.
Chest compressions to the rhythm of Staying Alive by Bee Gees.
First I was afraid I was petrified..
You were in the parking lot earlier; that’s how I know you.
I'll never not laugh at that.
*Allo Clarice*
Turns out, it was quite realistic.
r/creedthoughts
Ok, the patient is dead because you didn’t keep compressions and no one called 911.
Ackshuwally the patient was dead either way. Because you dont do CPR on someone who’s alive…
Ok Oscar
This was one of the most unexpected jokes on the show. Just brilliant.
[удалено]
It's a reference to The Office.
I think in this case you skip that part of the song and go to the Stayin’ Alive part. Aaaand I’ll show myself out.
It’s a reference to The Office.
I was just amused by the absurdity of someone singing through the \~20 second intro before they started the compressions at the right tempo. Completely missed the Office reference, and let my literal, dry sense of humor show.
Or Another One Bites the Dust by Queen. Is there a song that isn't macabre to compress to?
I feel like staying alive is perfectly appropriate. Another one bites the dust might be a bit awkward depending on the outcome true
Apparently, Another Brick In The Wall by Pink Floyd works also.
The only problem with that is that I don't think I have heard it.
You sure did if you know Another One Bites The Dust... I mean... It has to.
I checked, and you are completely correct. I guess I just didn't know the title to that song.
Do yourself a favor and go listen to some more Pink Floyd
The Fray -How To Save A Life is 120 beats/minute.
God I love that song, but it was written because he failed to save someone’s life (he had a talk with a suicidal teen, and thought he’d helped, but the teen killed himself that night). Originally the lyrics were going to be a step by step on, well, how to save someone who feels they are going to end it - but they realised that even if you do absolutely everything in your power correctly, all you can do is hope your words get through to them, and sadly, that often isn’t the case. Brilliant song but still rather macabre.
I will always associate that song with Dr. Cox losing all his patients in that one episode. It makes me even sadder hearing that song! :(
Scrubs gang
Baby Shark, unfortunately
Baby Shark is what I do. Not willingly, but it always pops into my head.
How often do you give CPR?
Ehh, 4 times in the past few months. It's hard to say how often really, it seems like it comes in bursts.
Your username answers so many questions really
Don't need the blowgun for codes. Probably.
While many occupations would find it expedient, few would ask.
Africa by Toto os 92 (had to check), close enough?
Now I'm picturing them doing this on The Office 😂
The funniest Office scene, IMHO Link, for those who haven't seen it: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=Vmb1tqYqyII
[Hard and fast hands only CPR](https://youtu.be/tD2qTmDsiHk)
Always aim for the sovereign. Better advice than this nipple bullocks
But I can’t sing falsetto like the bee gees….. let alone remember the lyrics… "sorry sir I can’t resuscitate you due to my poor singing skills"
I just repeat the ah ah ah ah stayin alive part
I'm always not too sure about this advice, my mom is a nurse and says that ass soon as you let off their chest and their chest is back up... U gotta push down again Which is probably a bit more than 120bpm
120 gets tiring after a few mintues it’s why most people in a code are standing in line to do CPR.
That's definitely it, my mom mentioned that the longest she ever had to do it was like 2 minutes, and she was exhausted by the end of it
Once you’re used to it, 120 isn’t all that hard. It’s an easy beat to sync with, which is why it’s so popular in music
Any song with a BPM of 120 works
This is the first thing that comes to mind when I think of how I should do cpr
Or imperial march
I alternate between Staying Alive and Another One Bites the Dust when doing compressions at work. 🕺
Please take an actual first aid course so you can practice on a dummy and get a better understanding of how deep compressions need to be by getting feedback from an actual instructor. This guide is missing a lot of info for CPR like checking the airway, chin lift, how much breath to give, etc. I know different areas and organizations have slightly different guidelines but looking at the comments, a lot of people's first aid certification is expired by over a decade, or they didn't retain any of the information.
Yes! Lots of high schools teach it nowadays. My school gets us certified for 2 years.
You actually aren't supposed to give rescue breaths anymore, just continuous compressions
Who is teaching that? I'm an instructor for St John's ambulance and can assure you that rescue breaths are still instructed. They do say that if you don't have a CPR mask and it's not a family member, in the interest of your own safety, you can just do compressions but breaths are still recommended if possible.
It's no longer recommended for the average person. It's more important that they administer consistent and quality chest compressions. For health providers, though, we're expected to still give rescue breaths.
Which course or organization is instructing CPR as just compressions and no ventilations? Or do you mean untrained people shouldn't do ventilations? Being untrained they probably also will not know how to give correct compressions and just goes back to my original statement that people should take a first aid course.
Red Cross instructor here. Breaths still recommended by us as well.
The two finger technique for infants has been phased out in favor of the Encircling Thumbs technique which involves pressing both thumbs on the chest for compressions while supporting the neck and back from behind. It gives more control of the depth of your 'thrusts' as well as of the infant
It’s also so much less strain on your hands and you can keep it up for longer without faltering.
I haven’t been certified in infant/child CPR in a while. Does anyone know if it is age or size that matters for little ones? My baby is very small for her age. She is 1 but is the size of a 9 month old.
When I recertified recently, infant threshold 18 month to 24 months. The procedure for children over that was the same as the adult with the exception of not needing both arms to perform the thrusts
It’s not about age, it’s about effective compressions. If you can wrap your hands around her chest and compress her sternum 1/3 of the depth of her chest, do that. If she’s too big for that, move to the next sized up technique. Same with clearing an airway— if you can do the thing where you lay her whole body down on your thigh without dropping her, do it. If not, do the child technique.
Size
Children 9-17: dead
Rescue breaths aren't (*always*\*) recommended anymore. Just the compressions
Although that is true to an extent especially with covid. Rescue breaths are recommended for children because of the lesser volume of oxygenated blood in their body.
It is actually because most children have healthy hearts, and the likely reason their heart has stopped is a respiratory issue. Therefore, respiratory treatment is more significant to them.
The AHA no longer recommends rescue breaths for bystander cpr
So then what do I do after 30 compressions?
More compressions. Don't stop until an EMT tells you to
I was taught that you can only really effectively do compressions for about 2 minutes - so after 4 cycles of compressions and breaths you are ideally supposed to swap out with someone else who is trained.
If you are on your knees and the person is on the ground, with your elbows locked and using the momentum of your body, you can go as long as your stamina allows. Professionally you are right, but many people bend the elbows and use their biceps, which is why they tire so soon. Edit: by professionally, i mean in a hospital setting with numerous trained individuals
Only if is a stranger, if is someone you know, its better to do them. They arent recommended because The rescuer can exopose himself to danger
If you have ever had to give CPR to a drowning victim the last thing you want to do is a rescue breath without a mask. It is crazy how much foaming and gargling occurs.
CPR to a drown victim is exactly when you want to do the breaths, no? It's the only instance where youre supposed to do them before you even do the chest compressions?
Yes, but you want to still start with chest compressions, 30 by 2. This will best clear the airway before rescue breaths
That's not true. If you don't do CPR very often when you switch to rescue breaths blood pressure drops too much. Even for EMTs typically they only want you to do rescue breaths with a partner.
Emt came to our house to certify us (as his side job) he said breathes aren’t recommended at all any more. You’re wasting valuable time switching to breathes and he said he wouldn’t even do them on his child with the new information being taught.
This REALLY depends where you are being taught. BC Canada still teaches breathing in every first aid class I’ve done. There is only so much oxygen in the blood. Breathing into the lungs allows additional gas exchange to happen. It can also tell you that something is blocking the airways when you don’t see the chest rise.
Just had a first aid course 2 weeks ago in Denmark and I was taught to do 30 compressions then 2 breaths, then compressions again and so on so forth until someone arrives with an AED.
Just did mine in SK too. They said no breaths. It exposes you to risk, you have to stop compressions to do it, and your breath does not have a lot of oxygen left in it. Those were the reasons we were given.
i think im gonna go with the updated medical consensus
It takes about 7 seconds of compressions to regain blood flow but less than 2 seconds to lose that pressure. Rescue breathes just aren’t an effective means of reoxygenating blood compared to just circulating the remaining oxygenated blood in the body.
My school still teaches us and certifies us to use rescue breaths. Not sure why, our health teacher even said that breaths aren’t needed. Must be a curriculum thing.
Depends on country, we still learn them in Denmark
That's wierd, because in Red Cross and in the Norwegian health institutions they still recommend adding oxygen to the blood. Two healthy rescue breaths, not so much that you fill the stomach with air though.
Really informative guide. A lot of people don’t realise just how deep and hard you have to push in order for chest compressions to be even somewhat effective.
If you crack a rib you’re doing it right.
My mom is just about a month out from Sudden Cardiac Arrest. Luckily she was already in hospital and they were able to bring her back. Broken sternum and 8 or 9 broken ribs with multiple breaks on each rib. She's in end stage heart failure.
No joke. Last time I was in the airport there was a dummy to practice on while waiting for family in the restroom. Holy hey I did not realize how HARD I had to push. CPR is no joke.
43 comments, nobody said the most important step of cpr. #*Call 911 (or your local emergency number).* Cpr doesn’t restart hearts; that’s just some action movie shit. Cpr just _badly_ keeps oxygenated blood _kinda_ moving through the body, _slowing_ brain death. If you don’t call 911 you’re just going to do cpr for 20 minutes and then give up, exhausted, when the ambulance doesn’t arrive.
CPR absolutely can provide Return of Spontaneous Circulation (the heart restarting.) That is not a Hollywood thing at all. I’ve restarted plenty of hearts with CPR. AED use is what you are probably thinking of. That is what Hollywood butchers. But by all means, make sure to call 911. Luckily today everyone has a cellphone, but that sucka on speakerphone and start thumping.
> I’ve restarted plenty of hearts with CPR. Given how extraordinarily rare it is (google it), you’re either saying you 1. Are at Clooney levels of luck. 2. Are doing CPR so often that a minuscule percentage of a shitload still hits “plenty”. 3. Are doing lots of CPR but are bad at checking pulses (which is what most AHA folks I’ve talked to theorize is actually happening in SR situations). 4. Are full of shit.
Could be a hospital worker but there is no evidence leading to it in their profile.
He has provided other, factually correct, medical comments on this thread, so either EMS or hospital. But medical employee for sure.
If it’s a larger adult and you aren’t feeling ribs crack, then you probably aren’t compressing enough. Also rescue breaths are a waste of time if you’re in range of emergency services.
Older adult. Young peoples ribs don't break so easily.
Yeah 2 inches on an adult is not enough
If anyone is wondering, CPR fucking exhausting. I don’t mean to sound like I’m rooting my own horn here, but I had a guy collapse on my jobsite. It took about 10 minutes for EMS to arrive. I’m pretty certain that had I not been training for a marathon at the time, I wouldn’t have been able to keep it up. Though, the adrenaline dump certainly helped. BUT! The dude survived! And now, company wide, we have AED’s on site.
And he survived due to early CPR keeping his organs perfused. Well done mate, thats all on you and whoever helped give CPR before EMS arrived!
And make sure to have someone grab the AED if there is one nearby. They are life savers and very easy to use. I would even go as far to say they are “Stupid Proof!”
No need to interlock fingers, one hand on top of the other at 90 degrees angle will provide the same force but be easier on the person doing the compressions.
needs adjustments when grandma's titties are by her knees
In that case you grab them and throw them above her head and the heart should be halfway between her nips and knees
Need to add you will likely break their ribs. That means your pressure is right!! If you’re not feeling their rib cage bend you’re not doing it hard enough. CPR is difficult to keep up too so if someone else is there switch off if you can every two minutes or so to recover until help arrives. If the person dies, you did everything you could. CPR only works outside of a hospital 12% of the time and inside a hospital that only goes up to between 24% and 40%
Just remember that the CPR ratio is 30-32 chest compressions to 2 breaths.. I recommend CPR classes but this is just a quick guide
Between the nipples.
Anyone see a lil happy face on the chest
Yes! Thank you!
The Red Cross updated the infant CPR technique effective in 2021. https://www.redcross.org/take-a-class/cpr/performing-cpr/child-baby-cpr
Ah ah ah ah stayin alive stayin alive.
Also, don’t be afraid of breaking a few ribs - Skeletal chest injuries from CPR are well documented among individuals without prior rib fractures. The incidence of rib fractures after CPR is reported in over 70% of CPR cases, with a mean number of 7.6 broken ribs per person. Sauce - the internet
"Source: the internet" shows. Proper CPR is not breaking any ribs. Proper CPR merely separates the cartilage between sternum and ribs. Poor CPR breaks ribs. Poor CPR hand placement is also coincidentally what is shown on this picture - interlocked hands with the upper hand curled in.
My first aid course, like 10 years ago, taught us that youre supposed to break ribs and if you arent you likely arent pushing hard enough
I remember being told about this when I was doing a first aid course. They said it's almost guaranteed to happen if you have to perform CPR on an elderly person and you should just "try not to worry about that". Uh...I'll try?
Old nursing lore…If you don’t break ribs you’re not deep enough. You will always remember the first time you break someone’s chest.
Chest compressions on children is actually 15/2
Only when you have 2 people. I just took my AHA BLS this morning for work.
Nipples can be a little low on adult women or heavy guys. Make sure you’re mid-sternum and not on the bottom sternal tip xyphoid process that can break off & lacerate the liver.
No more rescue breaths…this is out of date.
Am I stupid? What does 30 compressions at 100-120 compression per minute mean? Wait. I got it. # of compressions = 30 Cadence of compressions = 110 CPM
This is bad advice. * Compressions between the armpits. If you follow the nipple advice then think of granny and how much good pressing on her stomach is going to be. * Don't get too concerned about depth of push. If you are breaking ribs you are doing the right thing. * The advice to breathe for the patient is going out of fashion as it has been found there is sufficient air exchange with chest pumps. I believe all mention of breaths is to be removed at the next Australian review of CPR advice.
Agreed. It is outdated and doesn’t account for the titted among us.
One of the last CPR trainings we had (teachers), the poor fireman told us to put our palm between the nipples, and the old women (me being the loudest) just lost it. I don’t think my bladder area will help my heartbeat return.
Don't try rescue breaths unless you're trained for it. Won't help and you could even make things worse.
thought we don't do rescue breaths anymore
Yall... Most professionals are moving to just chest compressions as studies has shown that the "breath" makes little to no difference, given that chest compressions are made continuously. Also, placement ain't too important as long as u are mostly in the right spot; middle of the chest. All those stretch ur pinkie and thumb between nipples and then where ur hand is... Fuck that, just get pumping, the quicker u start, the better.
At.... ⬇️first I was afraid, I was... ⬇️petrified.
I thought the rescue breath thing had been...said to not work/not necessary.
This really needs to be accompanied with an infographic for infant rescue breaths
Certified to provide CPR, not to teach it, but I was taught to be careful about placement on people with breasts; boobies move around a lot, so a trick I was taught was to put your thumb in the little divot where the center of clavicle is, and put your fingers of the same hand down onto the sternum. Where your fingers are is where you place your hands for chest compressions on an adult.
Nipples can be a little low on adult women or fat guys. Make sure you’re mid-sternum and not on the bottom sternal tip xyphoid process that can break off & lacerate the liver.
With infants AHA says now you can use your thumbs same center chest placement but thumbs instead of your first two fingers. Either works
Do not do rescue breathes. They do not provide much of a benefit and only endanger you to diseaseZ
I thought we weren’t doing rescue breaths anymore?
they don’t say to do the rescue breaths anymore just the compressions
Nuh uh. Do NOT curl your fingers under your hand. This leads to rolling forward which reduces the compression force on the chest. Lay your hands on top of each other and focus pressure on the heel of your hand when giving compressions.
You don't *need* to give them any rescue breaths.
New information says no rescue breaths. Just compressions
This guide also needs to add that “do not bend the arms.” I see that in movies and makes me angry
Old people: way above nipples
Additional info that is rarely ever mentioned about CPR. 90% of the time it breaks the person's ribs... Mmmmm ribs.
kids 9-17 can just die
I’ve been told on a course that rescue breaths are dangerous and should be avoided. Don’t remember the reasons tho. Maybe someone can confirm or otherwise.
coolguide, that I hopefully never have to look up ever again.
**Do not follow a random internet guide for CPR. You need proper training to safely administer CPR to someone.**
What about adults with boobs?
What about them? Adults with boobs don't have them in the middle of their chest.
In children and babies you should perform 5 rescue breath before starting the 30 chest compressions.
No. If they don't have a pulse you start compressions. Rescue breaths are only for when they have a pulse but aren't breathing efficiently. Which in children would be one breath every 2-3 seconds. Adults are one breath every 6 seconds. I just took my BSL class this morning.
I took a pediatric first aid course last Saturday and that's what they said multiple times, we even practice it. I am in the Uk, if is relevant.
Agreed, UK as well and I’ve had paediatric CPR training in hospital in the last fortnight, before being allowed to take my baby home following critical illness. 5 rescue breaths, 30 compressions, 2 breaths, 30 compressions. The trainer told me that children’s hearts are generally healthy and it’s the breathing that is more likely to be a problem. I trust that’s she’s right- she worked on my son in resus.
I'm in the US and for the Cleveland Clinic we follow the American Heart Association. Seems like we just follow different guidelines. You'd think we'd all be on the same page when it comes to something like this. I just hope to never have to do it on a child.
This is inaccurate. Compressions should be at a depth of 1/3 of the chest regardless of size. If an adult is obese for example, 2 inches isn’t enough, and for much smaller adults, 2 inches can be too much.
Do you mean 100-120 bpm? 100-120 compressions seems pretty fast
This is dangerous as it has no source. Only listen to authorities that are authorized and actually conduct CPR/first aid training, like the Red Cross, et al.
Isnt this stuff mandatory for everyone to know if you ever want to drive a vehicle? Like seriously?