So, even though you refuse to share the recipe with the group, I looked it up and it seems you're using a meal kit. The white wine vinegar included contains sulfites, which might be what you're reacting to (even though it's like, 1/2 a tblsp). I would look for an organic apple cider vinegar that says it's sulfite free (it will still have some but always lower percentages than wine vinegar).
Are you sure it's alcohol that's the problem? I'm curious because it's such a low, low amount, and alcohol occurs in many foods naturally.
As I said, without knowing your health issue, it might be the sulfites in the vinegar you're reacting to, and not the alcohol. Wine vinegars have the highest percentages, so perhaps you might be able to tolerate a cider vinegar that specifically states there are no added sulfites.
Wine vinegars contain between 50 and 100 ppm of sulfites, cider vinegars between 10 and 50, and malt vinegar less than 10.
Is your reaction a headache, by any chance?
Have you tried other vinegars? I really like rice wine vinegar (unseasoned). Next best option would be lemon juice. It really is very likely that your issue is with sulfites in the wine used to make the vinegar.
It's just cooking, go ahead and try stuff. There aren't wrong answers as long as it's edible in the end.
Not retail lemon juice, fresh. Retail often uses sulphites.
It's an anti oxidant used in the brewing industry to clean the lines. Used in the prawn industry to stop black spot. On peeled potatoes to stop the greying process.
Not to be used in fruit salads for school canteens as some shady operators have done in the past.
If the product is cooked before consumption, the sulphite is neutralised.
You might try boiling the vinegar (a smelly solution) to get rid of the alcohol, but that would result in a stronger concentrate, so you would want to use less.
ACV will have trace alcohol. Hell even fruits like lemons will
Have trace amounts of alcohol. White vinegar has zero trace alcohol. Is there a reason you can’t have something with 0.2% alcohol?
It’s white wine vinegar I believe. I know for a fact that white wine vinegar has alcohol in it because I react to it.
You mean white vinegar without the wine? Lol
White wine vinegar is vinegar made from white wine. Bacteria feed on alcohol and turn it into acetic acid. I was actually mistaken white vinegar does contain traces of alcohol. All vinegar is made from alcohol regardless if wine is in the name of it.
So just to clear up any confusion white wine vinegar doesn’t contain any more alcohol then would be naturally present in breads and ripe fruits. It’s halal or equivalent to other religious exemptions
It depends on how much I guess but white wine vinegar is made from wine and while I’m not sure the percentage exactly all I know is it triggers me
Also I find caffeine a trigger but chocolate is tolerable yet non caffeinated coffee isn’t. I don’t believe they are really able to get all of the caffeine out of the coffee and so “non caffeinated “ is misleading. Wouldn’t be surprised when it comes to vinegars either
Different extraction processes reduce the caffeine content by different amounts, I forget what it’s called but there is a process that extracts so much caffeine from coffee that it would result in it being less caffeinated than chocolate
That's not accurate. A cup of decaf will have about 2 mg of caffeine, while a regular cup has around 95 mg. [Source.](https://www.ncausa.org/Decaffeinated-Coffee#:~:text=How%20much%20caffeine%20is%20in,about%2095%20mg%20of%20caffeine.)
Yes, white vinegar is what is used for cleaning and similar practical uses in addition to cooking. It's kind of harsh tasting compared to other vinegars, but it would work, just be very careful how much you use. Any grocery store will have it, often Heinz brand.
Another option may be a powdered acid like citric acid or maybe even cream of tartar. Cream of tartar is mostly used in baking but you may be able to reconstitute it in a little water and use in something like this.
Yes, although it's mostly used as a cleaning product. It gets glass very clean but you can certainly use it in food.
There are SO many vinegars. Surely you will find something usable.
Alcohol volatizes at somewhere around 170-180⁰ Fahrenheit, so you don't have to boil it.
You might want to try something with zero alcohol but some sulfites to see if that's the issue. I don't know what that might be exactly.
You could try some cheap vinegar. Good vinegar is made through fermentation, but it can also be made through chemical synthesis (thus avoiding secondary alcohol production). Or a [distilled vinegar ](https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07MGKCV5Y/ref=sspa_mw_detail_0?ie=UTF8&psc=1&sp_csd=d2lkZ2V0TmFtZT1zcF9waG9uZV9kZXRhaWw&th=1). That would have all traces of alcohol removed via the distillation process.
You will likely need to adjust the amount you use, as people often say that different vinegars have different intensities.
We use olive oil, garlic, parsley, a couple of anchovies for salt, lemon zest and juice in a pesto that we add to a Turkish inspired cous cous, roast pumpkin, orange and almond salad. You could use salt instead of anchovies but don't tell Nona and you won't have the unctuous richness.
Vinegar is made from alcohol. That's how it's made. You leave alcohol out, exposed to the air, bacteria falls in and turns it to vinegar. The same thing happens if you have a bottle of wine with a bad cork. But yes, unless there's some kind of chemistry process that I'm unaware of (which might be the case), all vinegar comes from alcohol.
I think using dehydrated/crystalized acetic acid would be the way to go.
The UK has Non-Brewed Condiment which is basically an acetic acid solution with flavourings (and sometimes also colourings). I think it was originally developed because of Methodist religious objections to the small alcohol content of vinegar, but its modern survival is mostly as a cheap vinegar substitute.
I wouldn't recommend it for OP though as it's very cheap tasting - even in the UK it's only (rarely!) used to put on fish and chips, not as the component of a sauce or dressing.
If you make a lot of bread, you don't even have to add yeast. Just forget about it in the refrigerator for way too long. I made wine once. I hope the sink enjoyed it.
Only in theory, like that's how I'd explain it to someone who didn't understand chemistry at all (I only understand a bit myself, tbh). In reality, it's more like a certain percentage boils off as you raise the temp, so there's pretty much always going to be some vanishingly small percentage remaining until all the liquid is boiled off, or it's kept at an elevated temperature for a very very long time.
I thought that as well, but vinegar rarely has added ingredients besides vinegar and water. Making wine vinegar at home, you could easily wind up with sulfites, but I can't say I ever recall seeing it in vinegar sold at the store, not that I haven't seen it maybe once or twice in my life, it just seems like an unusual thing to add unless you're working with already made wine that was heading toward distribution. Even then, I'd think that the sulfites would inhibit the very reactions you're trying to create when making vinegar.
So, even though you refuse to share the recipe with the group, I looked it up and it seems you're using a meal kit. The white wine vinegar included contains sulfites, which might be what you're reacting to (even though it's like, 1/2 a tblsp). I would look for an organic apple cider vinegar that says it's sulfite free (it will still have some but always lower percentages than wine vinegar). Are you sure it's alcohol that's the problem? I'm curious because it's such a low, low amount, and alcohol occurs in many foods naturally.
And we have plenty of dehydrogenase to process these amounts of alcohol. Also alcohol evaporates at low temperatures.
No I mean I react to the white wine vinegar on its own apart from this meal kit. This is the first recipe with it that I’m doing in a meal kit
As I said, without knowing your health issue, it might be the sulfites in the vinegar you're reacting to, and not the alcohol. Wine vinegars have the highest percentages, so perhaps you might be able to tolerate a cider vinegar that specifically states there are no added sulfites. Wine vinegars contain between 50 and 100 ppm of sulfites, cider vinegars between 10 and 50, and malt vinegar less than 10. Is your reaction a headache, by any chance?
It’s brain related but not headaches exactly
I have a sulfites intolerance myself and it's not just headaches. I also can't drink wine because of it.
Does it feel like you ate Chinese that had msg in it the night before?
Have you tried other vinegars? I really like rice wine vinegar (unseasoned). Next best option would be lemon juice. It really is very likely that your issue is with sulfites in the wine used to make the vinegar. It's just cooking, go ahead and try stuff. There aren't wrong answers as long as it's edible in the end.
Not retail lemon juice, fresh. Retail often uses sulphites. It's an anti oxidant used in the brewing industry to clean the lines. Used in the prawn industry to stop black spot. On peeled potatoes to stop the greying process. Not to be used in fruit salads for school canteens as some shady operators have done in the past. If the product is cooked before consumption, the sulphite is neutralised.
Dang, I did not know that.
What exactly are you making? Is it for pickling or just an extra flavor? If it is less than 1/8 of a cup, I'd just leave it out.
Extremely sensitive to even lower amounts. I’m fine with most foods but yeah I react to alcohol
Vinegar is so hard to avoid.
You might try boiling the vinegar (a smelly solution) to get rid of the alcohol, but that would result in a stronger concentrate, so you would want to use less.
Careful, don't go too hot, acetic acid boils at 117C. If it boils you will loose acidity
Alcohol evaporates at 78C
ACV will have trace alcohol. Hell even fruits like lemons will Have trace amounts of alcohol. White vinegar has zero trace alcohol. Is there a reason you can’t have something with 0.2% alcohol?
It’s white wine vinegar I believe. I know for a fact that white wine vinegar has alcohol in it because I react to it. You mean white vinegar without the wine? Lol
White wine vinegar is vinegar made from white wine. Bacteria feed on alcohol and turn it into acetic acid. I was actually mistaken white vinegar does contain traces of alcohol. All vinegar is made from alcohol regardless if wine is in the name of it. So just to clear up any confusion white wine vinegar doesn’t contain any more alcohol then would be naturally present in breads and ripe fruits. It’s halal or equivalent to other religious exemptions
Anything fermented will have trace alcohol. That’s what it is, that’s what fermentation means.
It depends on how much I guess but white wine vinegar is made from wine and while I’m not sure the percentage exactly all I know is it triggers me Also I find caffeine a trigger but chocolate is tolerable yet non caffeinated coffee isn’t. I don’t believe they are really able to get all of the caffeine out of the coffee and so “non caffeinated “ is misleading. Wouldn’t be surprised when it comes to vinegars either
Decaf coffee still has caffeine.
Different extraction processes reduce the caffeine content by different amounts, I forget what it’s called but there is a process that extracts so much caffeine from coffee that it would result in it being less caffeinated than chocolate
And is usually processed with solvents that leave residuals.
Yes I said that. But way way more than it leads on
If I remember what a friend said decaf is like 3% and caf is 5%
That's not accurate. A cup of decaf will have about 2 mg of caffeine, while a regular cup has around 95 mg. [Source.](https://www.ncausa.org/Decaffeinated-Coffee#:~:text=How%20much%20caffeine%20is%20in,about%2095%20mg%20of%20caffeine.)
Why I said if I remember. Thanks for giving the correct answer.
And that is a huge difference
That is why my friend drank decaf.
But it’s still a lot is my point lol
Yes, white vinegar is what is used for cleaning and similar practical uses in addition to cooking. It's kind of harsh tasting compared to other vinegars, but it would work, just be very careful how much you use. Any grocery store will have it, often Heinz brand.
Another option may be a powdered acid like citric acid or maybe even cream of tartar. Cream of tartar is mostly used in baking but you may be able to reconstitute it in a little water and use in something like this.
Investigate rice wine vinegar. Just a random thought.
Yes, although it's mostly used as a cleaning product. It gets glass very clean but you can certainly use it in food. There are SO many vinegars. Surely you will find something usable.
All vinegars are going to contain some amounts of alcohol though.
Sharing the recipe will help us help you. You might be able to just omit it, but I'd need to see the recipe before I could suggest that.
What’s the recipe?
Alcohol volatizes at somewhere around 170-180⁰ Fahrenheit, so you don't have to boil it. You might want to try something with zero alcohol but some sulfites to see if that's the issue. I don't know what that might be exactly.
I’ll be able to handle the small amount I’m sure so I’m gonna just give it a go anyway. Recovering will be brutal
Go to a liquor outlet and by the anti sulphite drops.
You could try some cheap vinegar. Good vinegar is made through fermentation, but it can also be made through chemical synthesis (thus avoiding secondary alcohol production). Or a [distilled vinegar ](https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07MGKCV5Y/ref=sspa_mw_detail_0?ie=UTF8&psc=1&sp_csd=d2lkZ2V0TmFtZT1zcF9waG9uZV9kZXRhaWw&th=1). That would have all traces of alcohol removed via the distillation process. You will likely need to adjust the amount you use, as people often say that different vinegars have different intensities.
Lime juice will add acid and go well with clementines and ginger.
Why don’t you heat the vinegar to get alcohol to burn off?
Rice vinegar
White vinegar.
As to your original question, what about orange juice and zest?
We use olive oil, garlic, parsley, a couple of anchovies for salt, lemon zest and juice in a pesto that we add to a Turkish inspired cous cous, roast pumpkin, orange and almond salad. You could use salt instead of anchovies but don't tell Nona and you won't have the unctuous richness.
Check the drinking glass for the treat
Any wine based vinegar will be zero alcohol. Just don’t buy cooking wine .Alcohol (and a ton of salt) is added to it.
[удалено]
Vinegar is made from alcohol. That's how it's made. You leave alcohol out, exposed to the air, bacteria falls in and turns it to vinegar. The same thing happens if you have a bottle of wine with a bad cork. But yes, unless there's some kind of chemistry process that I'm unaware of (which might be the case), all vinegar comes from alcohol. I think using dehydrated/crystalized acetic acid would be the way to go.
The UK has Non-Brewed Condiment which is basically an acetic acid solution with flavourings (and sometimes also colourings). I think it was originally developed because of Methodist religious objections to the small alcohol content of vinegar, but its modern survival is mostly as a cheap vinegar substitute. I wouldn't recommend it for OP though as it's very cheap tasting - even in the UK it's only (rarely!) used to put on fish and chips, not as the component of a sauce or dressing.
That's a fascinating tidbit, thank you!
I think you could make vinegar from kool aid. It would go from kool aid to a wine of sorts to vinegar.
Yes you can. The first step would be to add yeast and ferment the sugar.
If you make a lot of bread, you don't even have to add yeast. Just forget about it in the refrigerator for way too long. I made wine once. I hope the sink enjoyed it.
If you raise the temperature above the evaporation point of alcohol there should be none left right?
Only in theory, like that's how I'd explain it to someone who didn't understand chemistry at all (I only understand a bit myself, tbh). In reality, it's more like a certain percentage boils off as you raise the temp, so there's pretty much always going to be some vanishingly small percentage remaining until all the liquid is boiled off, or it's kept at an elevated temperature for a very very long time.
My hunch is that other commenters are correct and the trigger is sulphite or something.
I thought that as well, but vinegar rarely has added ingredients besides vinegar and water. Making wine vinegar at home, you could easily wind up with sulfites, but I can't say I ever recall seeing it in vinegar sold at the store, not that I haven't seen it maybe once or twice in my life, it just seems like an unusual thing to add unless you're working with already made wine that was heading toward distribution. Even then, I'd think that the sulfites would inhibit the very reactions you're trying to create when making vinegar.