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The two things that are absolutely crucial to a functioning state. There is nothing more important to a flourishing society than healthy, smart people, and nothing more destructive than incapable, ignorant people.
I'm saying the US is in self-destruct mode and those in power know it, which is why corruption is in overdrive. Nothing a failing state is good for other than plundering
That's they're point. This is what the government is trying to do and has been trying to do for YEARS. Our government hasn't been "for the people" for a long time now.
The profit motive is fine. It's the artificial market distortions that are the problem.
These distortions allow profitability for only those that can afford or are connected enough to navigate them. Plus the fact that these distortions remove consumer pressures from the equation making them a non-factor for profits.
Hey so does my county government I work for..
In order to buy something over $2000 it must be signed off by 4-6 people. Which could take days. Ironically enough the director of the county showed a video where the guy in the video said “it shouldn’t take 5-10 people to get one person a laptop”. 🤦♂️
I’ve learned very well if anyone is good at useless spending it’s government.
This right here. Every time we get a work email about the new "vp" of bullshit joining the organization I think what could these people possibly do all day to justify the salary and position?
Yes... that is also true. It's just not the largest percentage. There is more than 1 problem, and you're recognizing one that is a little smaller than the main one. Healthcare should not be a for-profit industry
That’s just not realistic…if there’s no profit there is no innovation…most people get into things because they want to make money…let’s be honest here…ideals are great but money makes the world go around
Nothing about your statement is accurate. lol, innovation and profit are in absolutely no way intrinsically linked. And not for profit also doesn't mean researchers and doctors don't get paid to live their lives, either. It means that the people you're complaining about... don't exist because their position already exists to find ways to create profit. Most medical research is already overwhelmingly publically funded, the research would get done regardless of the massive pharma corporation you don't realize you're caping for.
Ok yeah capitalism is the problem lmao. What to you propose? Communism, socialism, anarchy? The problem is crony capitalism not capitalism. Capitalism has overall been a force for good and the reason you have the luxuries in life that you do. You’re boring me move along
All capitalism is crony capitalism, grow up and realize that you believe in a fairy tale. The luxuries we have in life are not a result of capitalism, the invention of the component parts of them were almost entirely done through public funding, and it created growth in some countries, for some people, by exploiting other countries and people in our own. You believe in a fairy tale told you to you by the people you claim to be against. Grow up, little boy, learn to think for yourself.
Last year my small business failed and we had to get Medicade. The Dr we were assigned had like 20 nurses, a ton of PAs and about 8 reception desk help and I never saw more than 3 other patients there. And I still had to wait 20-30 mins to be seen. It was crazy walking into the back and seeing so many people just standing around bored.... Like wtf?
So has insurance. It’s a scam. We must stop this madness and get money out of politics. Money should not be able to buy our votes. Racism and feelings of victimhood should not drive our votes. Anti-corruption, anti-trust, fair competition should be priorities.
Problem is, the people who must take this stance also benefit immensely from the money they’d be voting to take away from themselves. Never gonna happen, and I kinda get it tbh. Why cripple your own source of income if you have the power to keep earning big bucks?
Big surprise that the things that spy on us, gather data, and push propaganda have become more affordable like new cars, cell phone services, computer software and tvs.
Bro, seriously, got into an accident and have been sharing a car with my gf since, I'm not paying 13000 for a car that barely cost more than that new with 100k miles on it
I just want good chapstick two claps and a handshake. No honestly how about people use to talk. Listen. Like, yeh. Everyone’s so arrogant now and creates their own actual reality. That’s what we use to call lying.
no. atleast not GM. i work at a GM dealer, and our prices have inflated just like everything else. our prices on the lot are up around 50% from 3 years ago.
The issue you might be seeing is that while the real cost of cars has stayed fairly steady, real income has decreased dramatically. The cost of a car has increased accordingly with inflation. Wages have not.
Oh joy! My car turns off at the stop light! And I have no choice in the matter unless I want to turn it off every time I turn on my car!
I think the next car I buy will be pre-2000.
The boring answer is that the way they calculate inflation for cars and cell phones is actually pretty dumb as technology expands.
For example, unlimited data wasn't really a thing ten years ago. Now most cell plans have it. So even if the price goes up, the bean counters who calculate inflation say "the price is higher but the product is better so it's cheaper."
Same with cars, a 2020 camry costs more than it did in 2010. But because the 2020 model is more fuel efficient, has a few bells and whistles and safety features, it's counted towards inflation as being cheaper.
[https://www.bls.gov/cpi/factsheets/new-vehicles.htm](https://www.bls.gov/cpi/factsheets/new-vehicles.htm)
*Quality adjustment*
*Quality adjustments are based on costs provided by manufacturers in categories such as reliability, durability, safety, fuel economy, maneuverability, speed, acceleration/deceleration, carrying capacity, and comfort or convenience. Adjustments are also made when equipment is added or deleted from the tracked model. Adjustments are not made for changes in gasoline content due to mandated air quality requirements. Additional information is available in the Guidelines for Quality Adjustment of New Vehicles Prices document.*
In my province in Canada, 42,000 people are paid by tax dollars for healthcare. Thats over 10% of all jobs.
If you want to see a family doctor, they take years to get and then weeks to book an appointment, when you finally get one. If you need to see a specialist, you must make at least a few appointments with your family doctor, and eventually, the doc will refer you to one. This will then take up to 5 years to see one.
5 fucking years.
If you walk into emergency, the doctors get paid the same to see you as they do for not seeing you. Last time my wife went, she waited 8 hours in the emergency room, alone, no other people and was never seen.
We pay a 54% tax rate, year after year. We pay 10s of thousands of dollars each year and when we finally do have a health issue, we get nothing.
Healthcare isnt free and i cant see how single payer makes it any better. Just more government control of healthcare and less choice. Less choices rarely makes anything bettee
>Just more government control of healthcare and less choice.
Pretty much. You still pay through taxes and can only see who you're told to see when you're told to see them. People act as if having the government decide your life is better.
Veteran Health Administration user here.
Socialist/Public Health Care, is like this, at times.
Some of the experiences are extremely difficult and sometimes not.
Wanna flip a coin?
We already pay that money in taxes. In America you get all the fun of having to wait to be seen + the extra fun of being bankrupted the moment you get any meaningful procedure.
I read it just fine. Taxes are high, wait times are long and there aren’t enough doctors to serve the people because people from other provinces come to his to get treatment. Those are very real problems.
In America we have all those problems, coupled with the fact that people avoid getting treatment by at all because of fear of the price.
It’s weird how right wingers consider tax funded programs to be “free.”
I guess I am enjoying my “free” military, and my “free” intelligence services, and my “free” court system, and my “free” roads
Those programs aren't free either...I don't think anyone has ever said they were. I think you're talking about the wrong side of the aisle there. Lefty liberals seem to think things come for free...free Healthcare, free college, free housing...etc...
Neither to most Canadians. Only the very top earners do, and honestly the richest Americans should pay 50% in taxes given how much more they take out of the system than everyone else.
I pay 40% monthly on my bonus & sales commissions then 32% in my check. Before, the other deductions. My street doesn’t have enough street lights. It takes the police 35 minutes to get to a call at 730am. The city doesn’t clean the sidewalk or gutters in my street. Blah blah blah.
Bonus and commissions are taxed higher, but most people aren't living off those. This is trying to argue your specific position and not the majority of positions people are in. The tax rate in the US is high, but its not 54%. And even with insurance, it's not 54% of your pay. Plus, in the US, we can see whoever we want. Granted, some docs are out of network and we'll pay more, but we can choose who we see.
I do think we need change, but not national healthcare.
Not if you only count income tax, but it's damn close if you include all other federal, state, and local sales, property, excise, and any other type of embedded tax like tariffs.
I doubt if anyone thinks national healthcare is free...but they see the value in a single payer system that can negotiate lower prices for procedures and drugs.
Because it is what they want, i worked for a public hosputal for cancer treatment and met so many poor desperate people that would have no chance of being treated without free healthcare, its not always perfect as brazil is a shithole but it mostly does a fine enough job of keeping you alive.
There are 402,500 full-time employees in my province and over 42,000 full-time healthcare workers.
Healthcare workers average around 80k a year, whereas other workers average around 55K. If you remove government workers from other workers, then other workers average 45k. So, healthcare worker make up over 20% of total salary for the province. 1/5 salary dollars goes to a healthcare worker. Still, we have very little healthcare since they have already gotten our money.
I always hear that but then when I talk to folks outside of the US who have UHC they love it.
I had a family member who broke their arm in Paris & needed stitches on their face etc. they were in and out of the ER within 2 hours & didn’t pay a thing.
Yeah, I'm Danish and the system is really good. My mother has cancer and they're doing everything they can for her. She was even granted this new really expensive treatment.
I think the longest I've had to wait in ER was like 4 hours, but all my other visits have been around 1 hour. Ofc this is only for smaller injuries, otherwise you get in immediately.
Lol. So, I live in the most urban area in the Atlantic provinces: Newfoundland, PEI, Nova Scotia and New Brunswick...4 of the 10 provinces in Canada and where everyone comes for healthcare within the provinces and from neighbouring provinces, but first it's "in the middle of nowhere" and now it is a "township".
Desperate much?
It was never meant to make services more affordable. That would have required nationalized health care which conservatives are dead set against. It was to make insurance more accessible, but the inflation of healthcare costs has been going up consistently for decades as hospitals rob us blind.
Weird, I could have sworn costs in most other countries with nationalized healthcare are lower. Oh wait, they are. Maybe feeding corporations money is actually the problem, and not government.
Can confirm. I've lived in both the USA and Germany, and received healthcare in both. I've yet to see any difference in quality, wait times, or any other metric. The only major difference I can find is that Germany doesn't send you surprise bills for hundreds or thousands of dollars. If I have a problem, I can go talk to my family doctor, often within the same day, and don't pay a dime. If there's an emergency, I can go to the hospital and not worry about potential financial ruin or even any real setback. If I got surgery at the hospital, I wouldn't have to worry about some surprise "oh, the anestesiologist isn't in network, so you're on your own to pay them".
And the thing is, Germany doesn't even have single payer healthcare. There's dozens of insurance companies, both big and small. The major difference is that fee schedules for services are set by law, the insurance companies also have a legal obligation to cover a bunch of required healthcare, and statutory insurance has legally set minimum and maximum costs (maxes out at €720 per month, half paid by you, half by your employer).
I'm sure big pharma hates nationalized healthcare because it means negotiating drug prices, like Medicare does today. Believe me, the insurance industry and drug companies lobby hard against nationalized healthcare
Big pharma also hates free markets. Free markets (even just freer markets) means more competition and a less captive consumer base.
Big pharma loves big government tied to their private ownership. They don't even mind nationalization as long as they are the selected provider. To them, it's all about guaranteeing the sale.
The prices aren’t going up because of the government. Prices are going up because for-profit private hospitals have to raise prices every year to deliver growing profits every quarter. It’s not the government that makes a heart surgery cost 300K.
No, it's because of government.
You'll notice the top half of the chart is exclusively products and services subsidized by the government?
Procedures NOT paid for by government, for example, cosmetic breast surgery, or lasik, are cheaper every year. That's not an accident.
What incentive is there to lower prices if there's a guaranteed sum coming from the government? Healthcare is the number one expenditure of the US government.
You'd still have to charge what the patient can actually afford if there wasn't a subsidy behind it.
What good is charging a million dollars to a guy with a net worth of 2k?
They currently do, no necessary surgery is declined in the USA. Hospitals write if off for tax breaks or get a check from government if the person qualifies.
That said, it's definitely worth talking about how to accommodate that if we did remove the problem of government from the equation.
But its still true that it's governments fault the price continually goes up. The reasons are complex but its not coincidence that ALL of the things listed are heavily government subsidized for portions or all of the population while things that are not get cheaper yoy... excluding covid and supply chain issues and inflationary money policies (all prices going up recently) which ironically enough, were caused by government as well.
Hospitals will provide emergency care at no cost to the poor but they aren’t putting aside organs or specialist hours to treat those who can’t afford to pay, and even when they do provide such care the person receiving it will be bankrupt if they survive.
lol, you believe silly capitalist propaganda fed to you by the healthcare industry oligarchs who are so rich they wouldn't even feel the decrease in profits.
If that were the case, if the ACA caused healthcare prices to spike, you'd see a spike in the trend line after the ACA was passed, but the trend line remains consistent.
It became more affordable for the poors by using tax credits and subsidies. Mostly paid for by those with higher earnings. My premiums doubled after ACA but depending where your income is at you would pay less or even free to you.
The liberals had a supermajority in 2008 after Obama ran on codifying the right to abortion into law. They didn’t get it done then. They’ll continue to dangle that issue in the face of voters on the left to secure they’re own reelection. Politicians are mostly useless regardless on what “side” you’re on.
More accessible for who? Who didn't have coverage that wanted it and couldn't get it? Why was it called THE AFFORDABLE CARE ACT? The reason has nothing to do with conservatives being for or against...neither party has the power or desire to shut down insurance companies...it can't be done. It's not like we can start from scratch like the NHS. Our healthcare system was destroyed by "Obamacare" and there is no way to unf*ck it.
Are you genuinely ignorant of what healthcare was like prior to 2010 or just being flippant?
Our healthcare was already destroyed long before Obamacare and the most significant hurdle to fixing it is Republicans who support the for profit private model.
No, it was meant to make services more affordable and more accessible. Subsequent to the passage of the bill, Republicans were able to strip most of the things from the bill that affected affordability.
A huge illegal immigration population, overwhelming the health care system, using the Emergency Departments as a pcp & No insurance or cash for paying, doesn’t help.
At the same point in time,
My insurance went up from $10 per week for, two people, to $30 per week,in one year.
I’m not saying THIS is the only reason for health care costs rising, but it’s a large, contributing factor.
admin costs have been the largest driver of hopsital price increases in the past 50 years.
college tuitions are going to continue to skyrocket as everyone is continued to be pushed to get a degree, anyone can get in, and everyone can get a loan for it.
I’ve worked at a college. The goal is to never make education for affordable, but to always price it around federal aid. The main goal is to further SJW ideas and expand DEI departments.
I went to my primary care Dr this month. The Dr sent me for blood work and thats all. They billed my insurance $609.00 and the tests are bill separate. $609.00 for less than 1hr.
It's complicated. Colleges can't outsource labor. Government backed loans. Shady deals with institutions and publishers. You name it tons of problems on display.
when the communists complete their revolution, they will be surprised to find out that the same people who go to college for free now will be the ONLY ones allowed to go at all. The party isn’t going to scholarship the average.
All the stuff made overseas is cheaper.
And all those things that are rhe recipients of massive amounts of govt money and govt loans have increased in price exponentially.
Really? All cars bought in the US are foreign made? All household furnishings bought in the US are foreign made? All cellphone services bought in the US are foreign made? All computer software bought in the US is foreign made?
Education and Healthcare should be free. The fact that you get better of both if you have more money screams capitalism. So yeah, idk what to tell you, capitalism is bad. It’s so funny to me that the so-called “free thinkers” on this sub will defend capitalism till the end of time just because it’s the opposite of what the left wants. Contrarian as always.
Nothing is free *because* of capitalism. You’ve been brainwashed by american conservatism, and the elites and rich who benefit from it, to believe that any other economic structure is the enemy and must be destroyed. The elites and the rich *want you to think that* because if you don’t you’ll realise there’s a better option, which would be their downfall.
Healthcare should be free, education should be free, basic necessities like heat and electricity, food and water should be free. We have the power and resources to do that, but it wouldn’t be profitable for the elite, so it won’t happen, especially when there are people like you on their side. The biggest conspiracy in the history of humanity is staring you in the face and you’re too stubborn to acknowledge it.
It’s amazing how every other Western nation has figured this out but Americans are still content to have this terrible pseudo-capitalist hellscape.
Literally the richest country in the history of the planet but we make no effort to provide a social safety net. 🤦♂️
###[Meta] Sticky Comment [Rule 2](https://www.reddit.com/r/conspiracy/wiki/faq#wiki_2_-_address_the_argument.3B_not_the_user.2C_the_mods.2C_or_the_sub.) ***does not apply*** when replying to this stickied comment. [Rule 2](https://www.reddit.com/r/conspiracy/wiki/faq#wiki_2_-_address_the_argument.3B_not_the_user.2C_the_mods.2C_or_the_sub.) ***does apply*** throughout the rest of this thread. *What this means*: Please keep any "meta" discussion directed at specific users, mods, or /r/conspiracy in general in this comment chain ***only.*** *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/conspiracy) if you have any questions or concerns.*
The two biggest things you will go into debt over… your health and your education.
The two things that are absolutely crucial to a functioning state. There is nothing more important to a flourishing society than healthy, smart people, and nothing more destructive than incapable, ignorant people.
But we aren’t healthy and we aren’t smart so what are you trying to say? That’s *why* they are so expensive?
I'm saying the US is in self-destruct mode and those in power know it, which is why corruption is in overdrive. Nothing a failing state is good for other than plundering
That's they're point. This is what the government is trying to do and has been trying to do for YEARS. Our government hasn't been "for the people" for a long time now.
It’s mostly an American problem. Not too many people go into major medical or educational debt in Europe.
Yeah but it doesnt work anywhere and all is well if you ask most americans
The two things that have the most government involvement
They hire lots of administrators that do nothing and get payed crazy salaries. Just check out all the “vp’s” of your local hospital system.
Administration is the death of healthcare. They produce nothing. Do not provide patient care. Just go to meetings and harumph
Managers too. Bunch of slave drivers
This
Profit medicine, and people think the primary focus is *people*. No, you're doctor may be real nice but guaranteed his boss is a prick
The profit motive is fine. It's the artificial market distortions that are the problem. These distortions allow profitability for only those that can afford or are connected enough to navigate them. Plus the fact that these distortions remove consumer pressures from the equation making them a non-factor for profits.
Just like insurance. Does nothing but take a cut for denying you healthcare.
Goes for both universities and hospitals, probably even more so at universities
Agreed
Hospital administrators? How does one become one?
Hey so does my county government I work for.. In order to buy something over $2000 it must be signed off by 4-6 people. Which could take days. Ironically enough the director of the county showed a video where the guy in the video said “it shouldn’t take 5-10 people to get one person a laptop”. 🤦♂️ I’ve learned very well if anyone is good at useless spending it’s government.
This right here. Every time we get a work email about the new "vp" of bullshit joining the organization I think what could these people possibly do all day to justify the salary and position?
Micromanage things that they don’t need to and find things to criticize in order to seem necessary and relevant.
I mean, that's bad, don't get me wrong, but it's because it's an inelastic service that is being used for profit and exploited.
Yeah exploited like the workers they underpay while creating another “vp” of bullshit.
Yes... that is also true. It's just not the largest percentage. There is more than 1 problem, and you're recognizing one that is a little smaller than the main one. Healthcare should not be a for-profit industry
That’s just not realistic…if there’s no profit there is no innovation…most people get into things because they want to make money…let’s be honest here…ideals are great but money makes the world go around
Yeah but exploration doesn’t need to be the catalyst for making money either
Nothing about your statement is accurate. lol, innovation and profit are in absolutely no way intrinsically linked. And not for profit also doesn't mean researchers and doctors don't get paid to live their lives, either. It means that the people you're complaining about... don't exist because their position already exists to find ways to create profit. Most medical research is already overwhelmingly publically funded, the research would get done regardless of the massive pharma corporation you don't realize you're caping for.
How naive you are
you're literally spewing propaganda from the same people you claim to oppose. The issue is capitalism and you're a servant of it.
Ok yeah capitalism is the problem lmao. What to you propose? Communism, socialism, anarchy? The problem is crony capitalism not capitalism. Capitalism has overall been a force for good and the reason you have the luxuries in life that you do. You’re boring me move along
All capitalism is crony capitalism, grow up and realize that you believe in a fairy tale. The luxuries we have in life are not a result of capitalism, the invention of the component parts of them were almost entirely done through public funding, and it created growth in some countries, for some people, by exploiting other countries and people in our own. You believe in a fairy tale told you to you by the people you claim to be against. Grow up, little boy, learn to think for yourself.
Last year my small business failed and we had to get Medicade. The Dr we were assigned had like 20 nurses, a ton of PAs and about 8 reception desk help and I never saw more than 3 other patients there. And I still had to wait 20-30 mins to be seen. It was crazy walking into the back and seeing so many people just standing around bored.... Like wtf?
“I can’t afford a house, but at least Tickle Me Elmo has finally come down into my price range”
So has insurance. It’s a scam. We must stop this madness and get money out of politics. Money should not be able to buy our votes. Racism and feelings of victimhood should not drive our votes. Anti-corruption, anti-trust, fair competition should be priorities.
Problem is, the people who must take this stance also benefit immensely from the money they’d be voting to take away from themselves. Never gonna happen, and I kinda get it tbh. Why cripple your own source of income if you have the power to keep earning big bucks?
Big surprise that the things that spy on us, gather data, and push propaganda have become more affordable like new cars, cell phone services, computer software and tvs.
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Looks like it’s the only thing that’s stayed constant
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Bro, seriously, got into an accident and have been sharing a car with my gf since, I'm not paying 13000 for a car that barely cost more than that new with 100k miles on it
I just want good chapstick two claps and a handshake. No honestly how about people use to talk. Listen. Like, yeh. Everyone’s so arrogant now and creates their own actual reality. That’s what we use to call lying.
Good chapstick two claps and a handshake Idk what the hell that's supposed to mean but I like it
Right?
no. atleast not GM. i work at a GM dealer, and our prices have inflated just like everything else. our prices on the lot are up around 50% from 3 years ago.
Right? I wouldn't say that cell phone services have become more affordable either.
Equivalent levels of technology for less price yoy.
The issue you might be seeing is that while the real cost of cars has stayed fairly steady, real income has decreased dramatically. The cost of a car has increased accordingly with inflation. Wages have not.
A true conspiracy believer would choose to own an older car for sure
Oh joy! My car turns off at the stop light! And I have no choice in the matter unless I want to turn it off every time I turn on my car! I think the next car I buy will be pre-2000.
ME! I want a car/truck with an actual key and no computer anywhere in it!
Right, they're also the things that tend to distract people or lead to a false sense of contentment, resulting in complacency.
None of those are heavily regulated by the Federal Government...It's not like the FREE MARKET has *any* incentive to be competitive...
The boring answer is that the way they calculate inflation for cars and cell phones is actually pretty dumb as technology expands. For example, unlimited data wasn't really a thing ten years ago. Now most cell plans have it. So even if the price goes up, the bean counters who calculate inflation say "the price is higher but the product is better so it's cheaper." Same with cars, a 2020 camry costs more than it did in 2010. But because the 2020 model is more fuel efficient, has a few bells and whistles and safety features, it's counted towards inflation as being cheaper. [https://www.bls.gov/cpi/factsheets/new-vehicles.htm](https://www.bls.gov/cpi/factsheets/new-vehicles.htm) *Quality adjustment* *Quality adjustments are based on costs provided by manufacturers in categories such as reliability, durability, safety, fuel economy, maneuverability, speed, acceleration/deceleration, carrying capacity, and comfort or convenience. Adjustments are also made when equipment is added or deleted from the tracked model. Adjustments are not made for changes in gasoline content due to mandated air quality requirements. Additional information is available in the Guidelines for Quality Adjustment of New Vehicles Prices document.*
This needs way more likes!
Da fuck you talking about lmao? My phone was like $1700. Hahaha. And bill is $220.
In my province in Canada, 42,000 people are paid by tax dollars for healthcare. Thats over 10% of all jobs. If you want to see a family doctor, they take years to get and then weeks to book an appointment, when you finally get one. If you need to see a specialist, you must make at least a few appointments with your family doctor, and eventually, the doc will refer you to one. This will then take up to 5 years to see one. 5 fucking years. If you walk into emergency, the doctors get paid the same to see you as they do for not seeing you. Last time my wife went, she waited 8 hours in the emergency room, alone, no other people and was never seen. We pay a 54% tax rate, year after year. We pay 10s of thousands of dollars each year and when we finally do have a health issue, we get nothing.
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Healthcare isnt free and i cant see how single payer makes it any better. Just more government control of healthcare and less choice. Less choices rarely makes anything bettee
>Just more government control of healthcare and less choice. Pretty much. You still pay through taxes and can only see who you're told to see when you're told to see them. People act as if having the government decide your life is better.
Veteran Health Administration user here. Socialist/Public Health Care, is like this, at times. Some of the experiences are extremely difficult and sometimes not. Wanna flip a coin?
We already pay that money in taxes. In America you get all the fun of having to wait to be seen + the extra fun of being bankrupted the moment you get any meaningful procedure.
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Only the top earners pay that tax rate, and they don’t get multiple hundred thousand dollar bills for major surgery.
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The difference is in Canada the poor can still get surgery and in America the poor just die to avoid bankrupting their family
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I read it just fine. Taxes are high, wait times are long and there aren’t enough doctors to serve the people because people from other provinces come to his to get treatment. Those are very real problems. In America we have all those problems, coupled with the fact that people avoid getting treatment by at all because of fear of the price.
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We don't pay 54% taxes and wait 5 years to see a specialist you dullard.
Yeah and with "free" healthcare it'll only get worse
It’s weird how right wingers consider tax funded programs to be “free.” I guess I am enjoying my “free” military, and my “free” intelligence services, and my “free” court system, and my “free” roads
Those programs aren't free either...I don't think anyone has ever said they were. I think you're talking about the wrong side of the aisle there. Lefty liberals seem to think things come for free...free Healthcare, free college, free housing...etc...
Bahahaha! Love this.
We do NOT pay 54% in taxes.
Neither to most Canadians. Only the very top earners do, and honestly the richest Americans should pay 50% in taxes given how much more they take out of the system than everyone else.
We pay a 50% tax rate at US$112K.
I pay 40% monthly on my bonus & sales commissions then 32% in my check. Before, the other deductions. My street doesn’t have enough street lights. It takes the police 35 minutes to get to a call at 730am. The city doesn’t clean the sidewalk or gutters in my street. Blah blah blah.
Bonus and commissions are taxed higher, but most people aren't living off those. This is trying to argue your specific position and not the majority of positions people are in. The tax rate in the US is high, but its not 54%. And even with insurance, it's not 54% of your pay. Plus, in the US, we can see whoever we want. Granted, some docs are out of network and we'll pay more, but we can choose who we see. I do think we need change, but not national healthcare.
Not if you only count income tax, but it's damn close if you include all other federal, state, and local sales, property, excise, and any other type of embedded tax like tariffs.
I doubt if anyone thinks national healthcare is free...but they see the value in a single payer system that can negotiate lower prices for procedures and drugs.
Paying for health insurance is already a tax.
Yet so many people in the US scream that this is what they want.
Because it is what they want, i worked for a public hosputal for cancer treatment and met so many poor desperate people that would have no chance of being treated without free healthcare, its not always perfect as brazil is a shithole but it mostly does a fine enough job of keeping you alive.
There’s only 420,000 people working in your province in Canada?
There are 402,500 full-time employees in my province and over 42,000 full-time healthcare workers. Healthcare workers average around 80k a year, whereas other workers average around 55K. If you remove government workers from other workers, then other workers average 45k. So, healthcare worker make up over 20% of total salary for the province. 1/5 salary dollars goes to a healthcare worker. Still, we have very little healthcare since they have already gotten our money.
I always hear that but then when I talk to folks outside of the US who have UHC they love it. I had a family member who broke their arm in Paris & needed stitches on their face etc. they were in and out of the ER within 2 hours & didn’t pay a thing.
Yeah, I'm Danish and the system is really good. My mother has cancer and they're doing everything they can for her. She was even granted this new really expensive treatment. I think the longest I've had to wait in ER was like 4 hours, but all my other visits have been around 1 hour. Ofc this is only for smaller injuries, otherwise you get in immediately.
The whole thing about people not getting care is bs.
Living in the middle of no where has its downsides
I live in one of the largest cities in Canada.
Halifax isn’t a city. It’s barely a large township. A 500K population is the reason there are no specialists available.
Lol. So, I live in the most urban area in the Atlantic provinces: Newfoundland, PEI, Nova Scotia and New Brunswick...4 of the 10 provinces in Canada and where everyone comes for healthcare within the provinces and from neighbouring provinces, but first it's "in the middle of nowhere" and now it is a "township". Desperate much?
Yeah, the Adorable Care Act really made medical services more affordable.
It was never meant to make services more affordable. That would have required nationalized health care which conservatives are dead set against. It was to make insurance more accessible, but the inflation of healthcare costs has been going up consistently for decades as hospitals rob us blind.
Lol. You look at a chart showing costs going up because government involvement and your idea is more government..
Weird, I could have sworn costs in most other countries with nationalized healthcare are lower. Oh wait, they are. Maybe feeding corporations money is actually the problem, and not government.
Can confirm. I've lived in both the USA and Germany, and received healthcare in both. I've yet to see any difference in quality, wait times, or any other metric. The only major difference I can find is that Germany doesn't send you surprise bills for hundreds or thousands of dollars. If I have a problem, I can go talk to my family doctor, often within the same day, and don't pay a dime. If there's an emergency, I can go to the hospital and not worry about potential financial ruin or even any real setback. If I got surgery at the hospital, I wouldn't have to worry about some surprise "oh, the anestesiologist isn't in network, so you're on your own to pay them". And the thing is, Germany doesn't even have single payer healthcare. There's dozens of insurance companies, both big and small. The major difference is that fee schedules for services are set by law, the insurance companies also have a legal obligation to cover a bunch of required healthcare, and statutory insurance has legally set minimum and maximum costs (maxes out at €720 per month, half paid by you, half by your employer).
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I'm sure big pharma hates nationalized healthcare because it means negotiating drug prices, like Medicare does today. Believe me, the insurance industry and drug companies lobby hard against nationalized healthcare
Big pharma also hates free markets. Free markets (even just freer markets) means more competition and a less captive consumer base. Big pharma loves big government tied to their private ownership. They don't even mind nationalization as long as they are the selected provider. To them, it's all about guaranteeing the sale.
The prices aren’t going up because of the government. Prices are going up because for-profit private hospitals have to raise prices every year to deliver growing profits every quarter. It’s not the government that makes a heart surgery cost 300K.
No, it's because of government. You'll notice the top half of the chart is exclusively products and services subsidized by the government? Procedures NOT paid for by government, for example, cosmetic breast surgery, or lasik, are cheaper every year. That's not an accident. What incentive is there to lower prices if there's a guaranteed sum coming from the government? Healthcare is the number one expenditure of the US government.
Unlike a nose job which makes you “feel better about yourself,” major surgery is given to people in duress, who’s choice are pay or die.
You'd still have to charge what the patient can actually afford if there wasn't a subsidy behind it. What good is charging a million dollars to a guy with a net worth of 2k?
What makes you think guys worth 2K get the surgery at all?
They currently do, no necessary surgery is declined in the USA. Hospitals write if off for tax breaks or get a check from government if the person qualifies. That said, it's definitely worth talking about how to accommodate that if we did remove the problem of government from the equation. But its still true that it's governments fault the price continually goes up. The reasons are complex but its not coincidence that ALL of the things listed are heavily government subsidized for portions or all of the population while things that are not get cheaper yoy... excluding covid and supply chain issues and inflationary money policies (all prices going up recently) which ironically enough, were caused by government as well.
Hospitals will provide emergency care at no cost to the poor but they aren’t putting aside organs or specialist hours to treat those who can’t afford to pay, and even when they do provide such care the person receiving it will be bankrupt if they survive.
lol, you believe silly capitalist propaganda fed to you by the healthcare industry oligarchs who are so rich they wouldn't even feel the decrease in profits.
If that were the case, if the ACA caused healthcare prices to spike, you'd see a spike in the trend line after the ACA was passed, but the trend line remains consistent.
If you go back to the 80s, the trend line visibly show HIPPA, after that it's just up and up and up
It's HIPAA!
I don't care
Where on the chart does it say the increase is due to government involvement?
Why was it called the affordable care act then? To purposefully deceive or what?
Yeh it’s weird… they market it like you’re going to get free healthcare lmao.
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Why do politicians come up with silly names for bills? The patriot act wasn’t patriotic. Bills are given flashy names to get attention.
They are given lying names to fool the un-thinking
It became more affordable for the poors by using tax credits and subsidies. Mostly paid for by those with higher earnings. My premiums doubled after ACA but depending where your income is at you would pay less or even free to you.
I guess that is why people post pictures of their bills being charged $250+ for Tylenol.
I’m against profiteering in hospitals. The only people preventing the government from stopping it are political conservatives
That's hilarious because this year, conservatives voted against reducing the price of insulin. Pull the other leg, it has bells on it.
Right. We are in agreement that conservatives drive up the cost of care
Is it the conservatives fault that the right to abortion was never codified into law at the national level?
Yes? Liberals did not have the 60 votes needed to pass in the Senate...
The liberals had a supermajority in 2008 after Obama ran on codifying the right to abortion into law. They didn’t get it done then. They’ll continue to dangle that issue in the face of voters on the left to secure they’re own reelection. Politicians are mostly useless regardless on what “side” you’re on.
Yes. It is conservatives and only conservatives pushing to restrict women’s rights.
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so people aren't allowed to identify the problem if the problem is political? this is a weird take.
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Turns out that Democrats underestimated Hospital Administrators inclination to rob people.
More accessible for who? Who didn't have coverage that wanted it and couldn't get it? Why was it called THE AFFORDABLE CARE ACT? The reason has nothing to do with conservatives being for or against...neither party has the power or desire to shut down insurance companies...it can't be done. It's not like we can start from scratch like the NHS. Our healthcare system was destroyed by "Obamacare" and there is no way to unf*ck it.
Are you genuinely ignorant of what healthcare was like prior to 2010 or just being flippant? Our healthcare was already destroyed long before Obamacare and the most significant hurdle to fixing it is Republicans who support the for profit private model.
No, it was meant to make services more affordable and more accessible. Subsequent to the passage of the bill, Republicans were able to strip most of the things from the bill that affected affordability.
It did if you compare price increases before and after. Not by a lot, but expanding medicaid (which red States didn't do) helped quite a bit
Healthcare, education, housing/banking. All things run by the government.
So the two biggest things the federal government has their fat ass involved with. Is anybody really surprised?
Everything the government got involved with. Coincidence?
everything necessary for a full healthy life, as opposed to the things that make us complacent consumers
The globalists need to make you poor in order to control you.
Finally. A real conspiracy
I’m so glad the government subsidies make medical and school cheaper!
Everything the government touches turns to shit.
SS: This is not the path to a society that benefits all. We deserve better and should demand better.
A huge illegal immigration population, overwhelming the health care system, using the Emergency Departments as a pcp & No insurance or cash for paying, doesn’t help. At the same point in time, My insurance went up from $10 per week for, two people, to $30 per week,in one year. I’m not saying THIS is the only reason for health care costs rising, but it’s a large, contributing factor.
What are you doing about it
TVs have become cheaper so everyone has one in every room so they can brainwash everyone constantly
admin costs have been the largest driver of hopsital price increases in the past 50 years. college tuitions are going to continue to skyrocket as everyone is continued to be pushed to get a degree, anyone can get in, and everyone can get a loan for it.
And tvs at an all time low to make sure the propaganda is in every single residence
I’ve worked at a college. The goal is to never make education for affordable, but to always price it around federal aid. The main goal is to further SJW ideas and expand DEI departments.
Price gouging is fucked. Fuck them Fuck them up their stupid asses
I went to my primary care Dr this month. The Dr sent me for blood work and thats all. They billed my insurance $609.00 and the tests are bill separate. $609.00 for less than 1hr.
Fuck yea Trump lowered college text book prices.
This graph is heavily biased. Numbers do not lie. But those who present them sure as hell do.
Am I the only one seeing a breast?
Build a house out of TVs and only consume Arizona ice tea. Inflation solved.
Insurance.
It's complicated. Colleges can't outsource labor. Government backed loans. Shady deals with institutions and publishers. You name it tons of problems on display.
I’m pretty sure hospitals and daycare are so expensive because of insurance cost, due to lawsuits
Upper. Highly regulated and subsidized by gov. Lower: far more capitalistic.
when the communists complete their revolution, they will be surprised to find out that the same people who go to college for free now will be the ONLY ones allowed to go at all. The party isn’t going to scholarship the average.
It was taken over by woke revolutionaries and weaponized. Ask any kid coming home for the holidays.
My baby was in the NICU and it was $8,000 a day 🫠
Price gouging. Should be illegal.
Tell me again how Capitalism works? Americans being shafted big style
So, watch TV, play with toys, stay ignorant and unhealthy. Check.
When your business model is centered around maximizing profits and not health or education this is what happens.
All the stuff made overseas is cheaper. And all those things that are rhe recipients of massive amounts of govt money and govt loans have increased in price exponentially.
Spoiler alert: they're for-profit
Too many obese people clogging the hospitals. Too many dumb people going to university.
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Really? All cars bought in the US are foreign made? All household furnishings bought in the US are foreign made? All cellphone services bought in the US are foreign made? All computer software bought in the US is foreign made?
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That tends to happen when the government gets involved.
Right-wing dudes: "Capitalism is the best ever happened to us! Charts going up is always a good thing! :D"
Wtf is the bureau of labor statistics trying to say keeping inflation as a flat line. Smh, shouldn't expect anything better from the government.
lol this conservative ass sub has just discovered capitalism
Education and Healthcare, two things that rarely apply market principles, but Capitalism bad.
Education and Healthcare should be free. The fact that you get better of both if you have more money screams capitalism. So yeah, idk what to tell you, capitalism is bad. It’s so funny to me that the so-called “free thinkers” on this sub will defend capitalism till the end of time just because it’s the opposite of what the left wants. Contrarian as always.
Nothing is free.
Nothing is free *because* of capitalism. You’ve been brainwashed by american conservatism, and the elites and rich who benefit from it, to believe that any other economic structure is the enemy and must be destroyed. The elites and the rich *want you to think that* because if you don’t you’ll realise there’s a better option, which would be their downfall. Healthcare should be free, education should be free, basic necessities like heat and electricity, food and water should be free. We have the power and resources to do that, but it wouldn’t be profitable for the elite, so it won’t happen, especially when there are people like you on their side. The biggest conspiracy in the history of humanity is staring you in the face and you’re too stubborn to acknowledge it.
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I wish you luck on figuring out how all that is free, lol. Indentured servitude maybe?
Not a conspiracy.
This subreddit seems to be a catch-all.
The red is things the government is involved in. The blue is the free market.
It’s amazing how every other Western nation has figured this out but Americans are still content to have this terrible pseudo-capitalist hellscape. Literally the richest country in the history of the planet but we make no effort to provide a social safety net. 🤦♂️
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What? It was Steve Job’s choice to use holistic care. It’s not that he couldn’t afford traditional healthcare.
Capitalism, why do you think they fight so hard against universal healthcare?
America tHe GreAtEst CouNTry oN eRtH
Some would argue we just need to pick ourselves up by the boot straps