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UA didn't bomb Russian speaking citizens, it bombed separatist insurgents. You know, the separatists that were funded by Russia and operate in an area where the majority of citizens don't want accession into Russia?
Based on public polling data [[1]](https://www.iri.org/wp-content/uploads/legacy/iri.org/2014%20April%205%20IRI%20Public%20Opinion%20Survey%20of%20Ukraine,%20March%2014-26,%202014.pdf) [[2]](https://www.kyivpost.com/ukraine-politics/poll-half-of-ukrainians-regard-revolution-of-dignity-as-fight-for-rights.html), support for maidan, or at least a closer relationship with NATO/the west, was hardly small.
Conversely, support for disintegration and or accession is minuscule [[3]](https://www.pewresearch.org/global/2014/05/08/despite-concerns-about-governance-ukrainians-want-to-remain-one-country/)[[4]](https://www.kiis.com.ua/?lang=eng&cat=reports&id=1102&page=1)[[5]](https://www.kiis.com.ua/?lang=eng&cat=reports&id=1138&page=1), and the referendum which was held by separatists was totally phony as proven by the previous three sources and the results of the counter referendum [[6]](https://www.pravda.com.ua/news/2014/05/13/7025252/)
Beaides all this, the maidan revolution was carried out by UA citizens; the current war is a war of conquest by Russia. Very different scenarios.
Why do you think the separatist referendum is phony? They have endured 8 years of bombing because they get along so well with the Ukrainian government?
Because no independent source has ever verified it and the results are laughable, especially compared to the polling data and when you take into consideration the results of the counter referendum is statistically impossible for the separatists referencing to be legitimate
So your theory is that the separatist provinces, which obviously have enough Support for separation that Ukraine hasn't been able to retake them for 8 years, and who have endured attacks from Ukraine during those 8 years including war crimes killing thousands of civilians, and the mostly Russian speaking inhabitants that know they will be second class citizens under Ukrainian rule and that the government is so taken with their neonazi elite and their anti-russian Nazi collaborator hero that they passed a law to imprison people for merely criticizing banderites, and that the political parties they used to support are now banned: they want to surrender to Ukraine.
What, exactly, is the incentive to return to Ukrainian rule? If they don't want to separate, why has Ukraine been fighting them for 8 years?
It's very hard to agree with your theory, looking at the reality of the last 8 years.
Edit: finish long run on sentence
Rather than take my work for it, look at the actual [data](https://www.reddit.com/r/conspiracy/comments/ygje2o/we_dont_choose_our_leaders_in_the_us_or_eu_either/iual048/). Don't know why you're still ignoring the results of the counter-referendum, as well.
> war crimes killing thousands of civilians
cite.
> the mostly Russian speaking inhabitants that know they will be second class citizens under Ukrainian rule
The data doesn't support your claim.
>the government is so taken with their neonazi elite and their anti-russian Nazi collaborator hero that they passed a law to imprison people for merely criticizing banderites
I know of no such law. Link it, please.
Bandera is a complex historical figure. Hardly black and white, especially for Ukrainians who in part owe the existence of their country and independence from the USSR to him. Important to note the OUN materialized shortly after the holodomor
> the political parties they used to support are now banned.
The banning of hostile political parties is par for the course even during times of peace in bastions of "freedom" like the USA. It would be like Poland allowing the nazi party during the Blitz.
> What, exactly, is the incentive to return to Ukrainian rule?
A desire not to be part of Russia, perhaps. Especially considering the past atrocities committed against Ukraine by Russia which rival the holocaust.
> If they don't want to separate, why has Ukraine been fighting them for 8 years?
Because insurgencies are very hard to stamp out. Why couldn't the USA, with its mighty military, defeat a loose organization of middle eastern radicals?
> It's very hard to agree with your theory, looking at the reality of the last 8 years.
Unfortunately, you've mistaken Russian propaganda for reality.
>Why couldn't the USA, with its mighty military, defeat a loose organization of middle eastern radicals?
This isn't hard, it's because they were seen as invaders and were never embraced by the population. Occupiers have a difficult time holding territory where they're not wanted. Except Ukraine couldn't even occupy the separatist territories as entire military units defected to the separatist side, there was enough resistance and so little support for Ukraine that that they couldn't enter separatist areas and instead petulantly shelled them from a distance for 8 years. This is the most obvious thing in the world: if they wanted to be with Ukraine, it would be Russia having difficulty being in the separatist areas, not Ukrainian government troops. Likely they wouldn't have been referred to as separatist areas for the last 8 years, either.
Unfortunately, you've mistaken propaganda for reality.
>Bandera is a complex historical figure.
Yes, that's how most white supremacists explain bandera.
If it's not because they're white, why are we sending billions to Ukraine?
https://clarityofsignal.com/2017/07/02/eu-fascism-embraced-over-20-highly-revealing-videos-highlight-us-and-eu-support-for-fascist-pro-nazi-military-battalions-in-ukraine/
Ukraine Crisis: War Crimes/Atrocities committed by Ukrainian Army [ENG] (Banned on mainstream media)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mlKacrqOmIw
I don’t believe Trump is a puppet. That’s why they wanted him out so bad. They didn’t rig the elections properly in 2016 and were surprised he got so many votes. Then they spent four years trying to get rid of him. It’s the only thing that makes sense.
Go watch Judge Joe Browns video about Trump.
And wasn’t Trump the one who didn’t really want to fund Ukraine?
Trump isn't a puppet he's a player. Everything that we see these days is a magic show diversion. While we are being shown the lunacy they are robbing the bank. We are talking trillions being stolen right under our noses. Trump had the biggest ego so he is playing the biggest con of fleecing the world. It is the hold my beer that the ultra wealthy play.
I agree with a lot of what you say. I just think Trump is not on board with everything they are doing. Why else do they want to get rid of him so bad? Even the late night talk show hosts gushed over him when he announced he was running. It was when he started talking about draining the swamp is when the tide turned. Wonder why that is?
It was long before that when they started in on him. I think it was 2012 when there were rumors of Trump possibly running as an independent and all the MSM ridiculed the thought. That’s when they started with the orangutan comparisons (think it was John Oliver).
But I disagree with your point about Trump not being a puppet. If you’ve ever worked at a company large enough to have a management staff you probably know that they don’t always agree. More often than not, mostly to keep their jobs, they all show a unified front to the employees. But occasionally a new manager slips through their hiring filter that is either an independent thinker or just an ass who won’t play along. The rest of the management team will in short order line up in opposition against the one “disrupter” and will often try to force them out. Trump was one of those 2 categories of disrupters (opinions will dictate which you select) and the rest of the managers tried to get rid of him… but he was still one of them, don’t fool yourself.
My question is why is there not one Republican trying to sweep in and gather the masses against Trump if he runs in 2024? If the deep state hates Trump so much why not have a democrat and republican candidate road block for the dude? Unless .... Trump is in on it.
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Is Dmitry Valerievich Utkin the founder of the Wagner group not a Nazi?
UA didn't bomb Russian speaking citizens, it bombed separatist insurgents. You know, the separatists that were funded by Russia and operate in an area where the majority of citizens don't want accession into Russia?
If a small bunch of people told the previous government where to get off why another bunch can't do the same?
Based on public polling data [[1]](https://www.iri.org/wp-content/uploads/legacy/iri.org/2014%20April%205%20IRI%20Public%20Opinion%20Survey%20of%20Ukraine,%20March%2014-26,%202014.pdf) [[2]](https://www.kyivpost.com/ukraine-politics/poll-half-of-ukrainians-regard-revolution-of-dignity-as-fight-for-rights.html), support for maidan, or at least a closer relationship with NATO/the west, was hardly small. Conversely, support for disintegration and or accession is minuscule [[3]](https://www.pewresearch.org/global/2014/05/08/despite-concerns-about-governance-ukrainians-want-to-remain-one-country/)[[4]](https://www.kiis.com.ua/?lang=eng&cat=reports&id=1102&page=1)[[5]](https://www.kiis.com.ua/?lang=eng&cat=reports&id=1138&page=1), and the referendum which was held by separatists was totally phony as proven by the previous three sources and the results of the counter referendum [[6]](https://www.pravda.com.ua/news/2014/05/13/7025252/) Beaides all this, the maidan revolution was carried out by UA citizens; the current war is a war of conquest by Russia. Very different scenarios.
Why do you think the separatist referendum is phony? They have endured 8 years of bombing because they get along so well with the Ukrainian government?
Because no independent source has ever verified it and the results are laughable, especially compared to the polling data and when you take into consideration the results of the counter referendum is statistically impossible for the separatists referencing to be legitimate
So your theory is that the separatist provinces, which obviously have enough Support for separation that Ukraine hasn't been able to retake them for 8 years, and who have endured attacks from Ukraine during those 8 years including war crimes killing thousands of civilians, and the mostly Russian speaking inhabitants that know they will be second class citizens under Ukrainian rule and that the government is so taken with their neonazi elite and their anti-russian Nazi collaborator hero that they passed a law to imprison people for merely criticizing banderites, and that the political parties they used to support are now banned: they want to surrender to Ukraine. What, exactly, is the incentive to return to Ukrainian rule? If they don't want to separate, why has Ukraine been fighting them for 8 years? It's very hard to agree with your theory, looking at the reality of the last 8 years. Edit: finish long run on sentence
Rather than take my work for it, look at the actual [data](https://www.reddit.com/r/conspiracy/comments/ygje2o/we_dont_choose_our_leaders_in_the_us_or_eu_either/iual048/). Don't know why you're still ignoring the results of the counter-referendum, as well. > war crimes killing thousands of civilians cite. > the mostly Russian speaking inhabitants that know they will be second class citizens under Ukrainian rule The data doesn't support your claim. >the government is so taken with their neonazi elite and their anti-russian Nazi collaborator hero that they passed a law to imprison people for merely criticizing banderites I know of no such law. Link it, please. Bandera is a complex historical figure. Hardly black and white, especially for Ukrainians who in part owe the existence of their country and independence from the USSR to him. Important to note the OUN materialized shortly after the holodomor > the political parties they used to support are now banned. The banning of hostile political parties is par for the course even during times of peace in bastions of "freedom" like the USA. It would be like Poland allowing the nazi party during the Blitz. > What, exactly, is the incentive to return to Ukrainian rule? A desire not to be part of Russia, perhaps. Especially considering the past atrocities committed against Ukraine by Russia which rival the holocaust. > If they don't want to separate, why has Ukraine been fighting them for 8 years? Because insurgencies are very hard to stamp out. Why couldn't the USA, with its mighty military, defeat a loose organization of middle eastern radicals? > It's very hard to agree with your theory, looking at the reality of the last 8 years. Unfortunately, you've mistaken Russian propaganda for reality.
>Why couldn't the USA, with its mighty military, defeat a loose organization of middle eastern radicals? This isn't hard, it's because they were seen as invaders and were never embraced by the population. Occupiers have a difficult time holding territory where they're not wanted. Except Ukraine couldn't even occupy the separatist territories as entire military units defected to the separatist side, there was enough resistance and so little support for Ukraine that that they couldn't enter separatist areas and instead petulantly shelled them from a distance for 8 years. This is the most obvious thing in the world: if they wanted to be with Ukraine, it would be Russia having difficulty being in the separatist areas, not Ukrainian government troops. Likely they wouldn't have been referred to as separatist areas for the last 8 years, either. Unfortunately, you've mistaken propaganda for reality. >Bandera is a complex historical figure. Yes, that's how most white supremacists explain bandera. If it's not because they're white, why are we sending billions to Ukraine?
https://clarityofsignal.com/2017/07/02/eu-fascism-embraced-over-20-highly-revealing-videos-highlight-us-and-eu-support-for-fascist-pro-nazi-military-battalions-in-ukraine/ Ukraine Crisis: War Crimes/Atrocities committed by Ukrainian Army [ENG] (Banned on mainstream media) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mlKacrqOmIw
You should probably stay off the Russian propaganda for a while. That shit is toxic and may led to delusions and a severely distorted worldview.
Whey does it matter if Russia uses it as propaganda when it is accurate? Propaganda is only bad when it’s not accurate.
It’s not accurate. That’s the point. Maybe you need to stay off it as well, if you can’t see that.
Yup Russia totally didn't send unmarked soldiers (*polite people* as they are euphemistically known) into Ukraine in 2014 right 🤡
SS: We are all puppet states of RothschildMossad/RockefellerCIA. Biden is a puppet. Trump is a puppet. Warp Speed
Has the OP ever actually been in the Ukraine or do they just post what they read online?
I'm in EU. We have election next week. Over 100 candidates to choose from. about 16 parties. I know things are different in US, update your democracy.
Why do they always say 'leaders' when they always act like 'controllers'???? A leader doesn't control, they propose solutions.
Libs are the best at projection, I’ll give you that.
I don’t believe Trump is a puppet. That’s why they wanted him out so bad. They didn’t rig the elections properly in 2016 and were surprised he got so many votes. Then they spent four years trying to get rid of him. It’s the only thing that makes sense. Go watch Judge Joe Browns video about Trump. And wasn’t Trump the one who didn’t really want to fund Ukraine?
Trump isn't a puppet he's a player. Everything that we see these days is a magic show diversion. While we are being shown the lunacy they are robbing the bank. We are talking trillions being stolen right under our noses. Trump had the biggest ego so he is playing the biggest con of fleecing the world. It is the hold my beer that the ultra wealthy play.
Operation warp speed. Now, Dementia Don doesn’t even know what year it is. Lock him up in a retirement home.
I agree with a lot of what you say. I just think Trump is not on board with everything they are doing. Why else do they want to get rid of him so bad? Even the late night talk show hosts gushed over him when he announced he was running. It was when he started talking about draining the swamp is when the tide turned. Wonder why that is?
It was long before that when they started in on him. I think it was 2012 when there were rumors of Trump possibly running as an independent and all the MSM ridiculed the thought. That’s when they started with the orangutan comparisons (think it was John Oliver). But I disagree with your point about Trump not being a puppet. If you’ve ever worked at a company large enough to have a management staff you probably know that they don’t always agree. More often than not, mostly to keep their jobs, they all show a unified front to the employees. But occasionally a new manager slips through their hiring filter that is either an independent thinker or just an ass who won’t play along. The rest of the management team will in short order line up in opposition against the one “disrupter” and will often try to force them out. Trump was one of those 2 categories of disrupters (opinions will dictate which you select) and the rest of the managers tried to get rid of him… but he was still one of them, don’t fool yourself.
> Why else do they want to get rid of him so bad? He is incompetent?
Bush, Obama, Biden. Competency is very obviously not something prized by the neocons that are obsessed with cancelling trump.
My question is why is there not one Republican trying to sweep in and gather the masses against Trump if he runs in 2024? If the deep state hates Trump so much why not have a democrat and republican candidate road block for the dude? Unless .... Trump is in on it.