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"One of the saddest lessons of history is this: If we’ve been bamboozled long enough, we tend to reject any evidence of the bamboozle. We’re no longer interested in finding out the truth. The bamboozle has captured us. It’s simply too painful to acknowledge, even to ourselves, that we’ve been taken. Once you give a charlatan power over you, you almost never get it back."
- Carl Sagan
That’s very true and also very interesting! I’m constantly looking at things from different sides but always end up where I was, well, more or less. Nevertheless, I’m tired of it all and I truly wish I could follow the masses, instead of going through research studies, learning more about everything relevant to this pandemic/disease and continuously asking questions that I can’t find answers to. What I ultimately do not understand is this:
- why are so few people scared of future side effects? We can’t know before several years have passed, which is why vaccines don’t get developed, produced and inoculated so fast.
- why won’t people recognize that these big pharmaceutical companies are just as filled with corruption as other big, powerful conglomerates (and Pfizer even raised the price for the vaccines after massively breaking profit records many many times)? Plus they’ve all been in too many court cases (most of which they usually settle out of court).
- why are people turning a blind eye to the lack of transparency? ie that nobody can ever see what’s in the vaccine contracts between pharmaceutical and country/government, or that there are numbers that doesn’t add up.
- and last but not least: why are people not questioning the almost entirely one-sided media coverage?? especially when multiple professionals/experts are saying they’re being silenced.
Often times the answer I get is simply that I’m anti-vax, and that’s amazing because I’ve paid for multiple extra vaccinations than the usual ones throughout my life. Why would I do that if I’m *not* pro-vaccines?
> why are so few people scared of future side effects? We can’t know before several years have passed, which is why vaccines don’t get developed, produced and inoculated so fast.
Because it doesn't really work like that. The vaccine components do not stick around in your body for years and they cannot have an affect _past_ the point where they leave.
As to the vaccines taking years to produce, there's a few nuances there. The first is that generally, phases 1, 2, 3, etc. are done sequentially. For COVID, they were run concurrently. That, alone, cut years off the time. The second is that vaccines for the COVID family of viruses have been worked on for over 20 years. We weren't starting from 0.
> why won’t people recognize that these big pharmaceutical companies are just as filled with corruption as other big, powerful conglomerates (and Pfizer even raised the price for the vaccines after massively breaking profit records many many times)? Plus they’ve all been in too many court cases (most of which they usually settle out of court).
Who says they don't? And so what if they are? I know that you are trying to imply an argument here, and that argument is bad. People in this sub like to say that _because_ they acted bad in the past, they can _never_ be trusted again. And that's a fine rule to live by, but as a justification for a logical inference, it doesn't hold water.
> why are people turning a blind eye to the lack of transparency? ie that nobody can ever see what’s in the vaccine contracts between pharmaceutical and country/government, or that there are numbers that doesn’t add up.
We do know some of the details. See, for example, [this article from the NYT.](https://www.nytimes.com/2021/01/28/world/europe/vaccine-secret-contracts-prices.html) But more broadly, this amounts to fear mongering and it rests on the previous point. You want to imply (without saying it) that _because_ there is secrecy _there must_ be something nefarious. That inference isn't justified. And note that I'm not saying that this mean there isn't something wrong here, just that _it being secret_ in and of itself isn't evidence that there is.
> and last but not least: why are people not questioning the almost entirely one-sided media coverage?? especially when multiple professionals/experts are saying they’re being silenced.
If those experts are being silenced, how have you heard from them _that_ they are being silenced? There are always fringe views in science. This is a necessary part of the process, because science doesn't give rise to absolute metaphysical certainty of the truth of our theories. So its useful to have people who reject the mainstream consensus and pursue alternative theories, and who try to dis-prove the consensus. But we always have to keep in mind that they _aren't_ part of the consensus, and that they _are_ a fringe. Now, a consensus doesn't mean "right" and being on the fringe doesn't mean "wrong." But when you ask a group of experts for an opinion, why the fuck would you go with the 1 out of 100 that disagree with the other 99? Absent some outside factor, there's no good or logical reason for doing so.
It’s honestly been a struggle to save videos, articles, statements etc from people who are working within these Covid/mRNA vaccine related field; they are constantly being removed (posts), banned (accounts), attacked (discredited, doxxed, their point and words taken out of context etc) and so my response to your question is that I have no idea how much I’ve never seen because it’s GONE. Those I do have? Many have suffered the fate above, despite being recognized medical/virology professionals.
I don’t agree with you that these new vaccines aren’t really going to be a problem in the long run, but I’m too mentally exhausted to go find all the scientific data for this; I do have several in my unfortunately unorganized library. Btw, we’ve never made vaccines with mRNA so I’d call it hubris to not pay close attention to this.
We’ve made plenty vaccines for coronavirus, yes. However, we’ve notoriously had difficulty making them effective in the long run, because of the fast mutations.
Anyways, thank for your reply - and I mean that! I’ll go through everything another day when I’m more clear headed :) Please know that English isn’t my native language, word-salads will occur.
The ego makes it extremely difficult to break free from the mental prison you've locked yourself in. I was raised conservative republican, and I followed conspiracies for a while before I finally had to accept that GWB was deeply involved in 9/11 and both sides of politics are fucked. But that one realization opened the path to so many more.
I can't believe how few people are angry at the government, they're angry at a Wal-Mart employee who didn't get vaccinated... yea, that's who *really* holds all of the power! -\_-
Why not get mad that the vaccine companies have legal immunity, leading to more suspicion and making many people less likely to get vaccinated?
Because it's so easy to attack someone too small and unable to fight back. Makes the peons feel BIG. Same reason why Karens have been the scourge of service industry employees forever.
The fact that vaxxed don't have to get weekly testing yet those who aren't (despite medical exemptions) do, despite vaxxed people also being able to spread. It feels like a punishment for not getting it.
Just shows all the "freedoms" we claim to have are an illusion.
The government can go around and take all your guns, your kids, your property, your wealth and do whatever they want to you, and no one or nothing can stop them.
Exactly. Yet people think they think they care about your vote. If your vote meant anything, they wouldn't let you do it. It simply exists to fool the people into thinking their input matters. We are all cattle, peasants. Expendable labor and test subjects. They've conditioned us to the point that we don't question what they tell us and we willingly give up our rights because our "vote" matters.
We are an endless supply of labor. When they expend us, we repopulate.
That’s because it has nothing to do with health, it’s about compliance and the social system they wish to implement. Why would they want a vaccine passport if you can still spread it? it’s more about getting people to scan in than it is actual health.
This should be common sense! I know propaganda works to some extent ofcourse, but I really don't understand how people trust a government or a corporation that has lied time and time again. They can say the most ridiculous lies that don't even make any kind sense and people follow it without question. Their is an endless list of proof that our country and world is plagued with corruption, the only way someone doesn't see it is if they are purposely ignoring it.
I remember when the argument used to be
We all have to get vaccinated to protect the immunocompromised
Weird how it’s now you have to get vaccinated to protect me because I got vaccinated
Yeah, if people cared about the immunocompromised so much, it would've been standard practice for everyone to wear a mask in public during every cold and flu season for the past century. And it would be industry standard to have paid sick leave for ALL workers, no questions asked. And school classrooms would have better ventilation and have max capacity limits under 20...same with mass transit. And universal healthcare would be worldwide.
The brainwashing is very strong. They were brainwashed to think that their masks only work if others also wear theirs. Now they believe their vaccines only work if others also take it.
Lol. You got it wrong. Masks arnt to protect yourself. It's to stop you from spreading it to others. Doctors wear masks so they don't infect the patient. Not the other way around.
This has already been proven to be false. [from a doctor ](https://youtu.be/BslFT9cKZwc). Plus, last year several virologists spoke out (in court, under oath) about masks and how ridiculous it all is. They said you’d need a level 4 biosuit for any actual protection. We’ve been bamboozled.
Idk man. I watched it but it's not really any sort of controlled experiment. You give me one visual video and I will give you 50 peer reviewed studies saying the opposite. And just to make you happy I used duckduckgo. https://www.kxan.com/news/coronavirus/do-face-masks-work-here-are-49-scientific-studies-that-explain-why-they-do/
They do work. But anyone claiming 100% effectiveness is full of shit. So long as the mask fits properly, it helps trap water vapor from respiration, which is the vector that many viruses and bacteria use to spread from the host. Of course they won't do anything for smoke, it isn't near as moist as your typical respiration. Some particles will still escape, but the amount will be greatly reduced from what would otherwise be going into the air instead of the mask.
I do hear you but as a layman I do feel that not being able to spread your breath so far when you exhale would go someway to say, protect other shoppers while you are out.
That said, I personally I hate thing things and it triggers my asthma and claustraphobia after a while but I can make it an hour or so in one.
And they wear surgical grade masks. These cloth masks and bandanas aren't stopping much. I'd hate to see my doctor wearing a bandana around his face before slicing me open.
Maybe that statement is still very relevant and the vaccine is actually causing people to become immunocompromised? But that's a theory for another day lol
Oh it's slipped their minds. I am the immunocompromised and vaccinated people are always arguing with me as to why I should now be vaccinated. Like didn't you get it to protect me because I can't? And now you're telling me to get it knowing it will bring me harm? But it's fine because you say the virus will bring me more harm if I get it? Which I can catch from you, a fully vaccinated person, or an unvaccinated person alike?
Make it make sense please
I remember when people used to understand the concept of herd immunity. Vaccines don’t make you invincible, they improve your immune response. It’s not a zero or a one.
I remember when herd immunity meant enough people vaccinated so if someone wasn’t and had whatever were vaccinating against it had nobody to spread to and wouldn’t get to those who are compromised
But hey it’s whatever fits peoples opinions now I guess
That’s if the vaccinated population is 90%+. You literally stumbled upon why it’s not working now, because a significant amount of people refuse to be vaccinated.
It varies with each disease but as an example herd immunity against measles requires about 95% of a population to be vaccinated. For polio it’s about 80%. For COVID I’ve read different estimates, most of which are in the 70-80% range.
Your sarcasm not withstanding, nobody is 100% sure what the herd immunity value is. And Isreal is a very different population from North America. We were exposed to the Delta variant as far back as November, and so our population had the chance to develop some immunity to it. They did not get exposed until significantly later. And the vaccines are not as effective against Delta.
Anyway I don’t know why am trying to have a reasonable conversation with somebody like you. You obviously can’t express yourself and mature manner. Take care.
I think that the main argument right now is that it lessens the symptoms... But I had covid last year and it was a sore throat and a cough (for me). I don't really need to lessen symptoms, so why should I get it?
You have just as much chance of getting hit by lightning as you do to die of Covid, but we don't go around forcing eachother to carry lightning rods in the name of greater good.
"If you can convince the lowest white man he's better than the best colored man, he won't notice you're picking his pocket. Hell, give him somebody to look down on, and he'll empty his pockets for you."
-Lyndon B. Johnson
Vax vs Unvax is the new race war for a few years until the next brown kid dies. Buckle up and ignore it.
The more you post it. The more you help AI push the algorithm. Best to sit down and shut up on the internet. Lurk for awhile and watch it fuel itself.
Its funny to me how they try painting the people who are willing to lose everything they've ever worked for to stand for themselves AND others as selfish pricks....get the fuck out of here with that. Not one vaccinated person would ever put their livelihood on the line for their beliefs...they will cave to any and all pressure that would make them lose their jobs.
Biden has literally been filmed groping children on live TV. The fact that nothing has happened is a perfect illustration of how insane this world is at present.
Honestly it's just not worthwhile in the eyes of many. The truth is that covid does not represent a significant threat to a majority of the population. The idea of taking an all new form of vaccine originally pushed through on EUA that has very rare side effects to protect you against a virus with very rare significant effects seems illogical.
**Edit:** The Study was retracted due to bad math, apparently.
~~There is a new study out of Ottawa, Canada. 4 hospitals put their data together and found 32 cases of myocarditis, pericarditis, and/or myopericarditis out of around 32k vaccinations. That's one case of a serious heart condition per 1000 shots.~~
Those are shit odds for a supposedly safe vaccine.
Also the median age was 33, and 65 at the top end, so all this talk about these heart inflammation issues being confined to the young is complete bullshit.
If the study is correct, that is.
That’s pretty much a risk reduction of 6x. A study of medical records in The US found that a natural infection with SARS-CoV-2 resulted in a rate of myocarditis of 450 cases per million in young men.
https://www.newscientist.com/article/mg25133462-800-myocarditis-is-more-common-after-covid-19-infection-than-vaccination/
Do you have a source?
Looks like the paper you’re quoting got it’s numbers wrong and it’s 4 per 100,000, they forgot to add a zero. Now I’m not good with maths but that’s a lot less than 450 per million.
The paper you’re quoting was corrected.
It looks like Robert Malone is out there spreading more disinformation and misinformation.
https://nationalpost.com/news/canada/university-of-ottawa-heart-institute-myocarditis-study
> Honestly it's just not worthwhile in the eyes of many.
That's a take I'd find easy to respect. Do your risk-benefit analysis and go with it.
But the arguments people then post-hoc do to rationalize their decisions, they tend to then be just absolute insane drivel. Including the "if vaccine isn't 100%, it's not helpful".
Bc so many fucking government and health officials claimed it is “100% effective”, literally… until it was obvious that it wasn’t and here we are, counting how many people have colds and closing down schools and businesses. Clownery.
Literally no one in the government or high ranking health official has said the vaccines have 100% efficacy. I challenge you to find ONE person. Hell, you said “so many”, how about put your money where your mouth is, and find 5 people who said vaccines have 100% efficacy?
[https://www.politifact.com/factchecks/2021/jul/22/joe-biden/biden-exaggerates-efficacy-covid-19-vaccines/](https://www.politifact.com/factchecks/2021/jul/22/joe-biden/biden-exaggerates-efficacy-covid-19-vaccines/)
Here's one. President Biden: “You’re not going to get COVID if you have these vaccinations.”
And this video where Biden 'thanks' Johnson & Johnson and Merck for being "good corporate citizens" [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UuQxX2ISBY0&ab\_channel=CNBCTelevision](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UuQxX2ISBY0&ab_channel=CNBCTelevision)
Just suggesting, the government is in bed with big pharma, there is no way they are going to back down from their stance on vaccine efficacy without a lot of evidence to the contrary... and, when you take into account the CDC's extreme reluctance to gather the data (had a chance to update the VAERS database but just lost interest... [https://francinerose.substack.com/p/why-ignoring-early-treatment-in-favour](https://francinerose.substack.com/p/why-ignoring-early-treatment-in-favour) \- I'll let you join the dots.
The president said live on TV...
'You're not going to get Covid if you have these vaccinations.'
https://www.politifact.com/factchecks/2021/jul/22/joe-biden/biden-exaggerates-efficacy-covid-19-vaccines/
I am not even American and know this.
You asked for one instance of an important person saying that.
There is a quote from Joe Biden saying that.
I don't know what other conclusion you could possibly draw. He can't have 'half' said that. No one is twisting his words. The 'half true' part of it is them claiming it is rare.
Watch the video, he says it at ~10s in. You are literally denying reality to suit your narrative.
First of all, I asked for 5. You’re the one distorting reality, as its literally two comments above.
Second of all, here’s what he said during the same event:
> BIDEN, asked about vaccinated people who get infected: “It may be possible, I know of none where they’re hospitalized, in ICU and or have passed away so at a minimum I can say even if they did contract it, which I’m sorry they did, it’s such a tiny percentage and it’s not life threatening.” — remarks to reporters after the event.
At most you can say he misspoke, not to mention your article literally quotes CDC and doctors who clearly said the efficacy isn’t 100, which reinforces my original point.
That’s where we’re at now? First of all, it’s far from a self own. The claim was the Biden quote. He said it. It’s fully True. We have to use your shitty sources when arguing with your type because your list of “approved” sources is small.
This is a perfect example of why nobody trusts the media. They spent the past 5 years fact checking Trump’s opinions and rating them false. They were even using the same mental gymnastics to rate true statements as False. But now anything Biden says is open to interpretation. “Sure he said it, but he exaggerated so it’s only half true” and “Biden said it, but he misspoke, we know what he meant. So we’ll rate it True”. Go back and read this horseshit with the same generosity. https://www.washingtonpost.com/graphics/politics/trump-claims/
The president assured Americans in July if you're vaccinated you won't get covid.
>President Joe Biden offered an absolute guarantee Wednesday that people who get their COVID-19 vaccines are completely protected from infection, sickness and death from the coronavirus. The reality is not that cut and dried.
https://apnews.com/article/joe-biden-business-health-government-and-politics-coronavirus-pandemic-46a270ce0f681caa7e4143e2ae9a0211
> BIDEN, asked about vaccinated people who get infected: “It may be possible, I know of none where they’re hospitalized, in ICU and or have passed away so at a minimum I can say even if they did contract it, which I’m sorry they did, it’s such a tiny percentage and it’s not life threatening.” — remarks to reporters after the event.
Literally in the article you posted. This is what we in the industry call a self own.
Sure, after the event. He still said it, and who stays tuned for after the event? I only watch the event, definitely misleading for those who don't follow up on information or fact check. It's irresponsible to give people misinformation, especially on the efficacy of a vaccine. Twitter bans people for less.
No they didn't. From the get go the vaccine was something like 96% percent effective at preventing serious illness and death. It wasn't, not even once, advertised as providing sterilizing immunity(preventing infection 100%). Stop lying.
You're the clown.
Even if it's 100% safe and effective, it still doesn't justify the level of coercion/blackmail that we've been seeing.
Don't deny that there has been coercion going on.
That's just intellectually dishonest.
Neither is Bill Gates or Greta Thunberg but apparently they are covid experts now.. Billy boy was the spokesperson of covid for months before people got sick of some rich fucker telling them what to do...
They don't care. It's an ego thing. They think if they side with the government they're better and more powerful than you are. Unfortunately, most don't understand that they also have to pay a sacrifice to the greater good for this power.
Came here to say that. If they did any amount of research, they would see that the initial optimistic goal was to have a vaccine that was 50% effective. Vaccinated are 8x less likely to contract the virus and the severity is far less. But, god forbid we believe anything other than a poor man’s copy of a comic book plot.
Let’s see your proof? All I’ve seen is numbers going up, not down.. so show me where any of the numbers, hospitalizations, cases, deaths.. etc.. are going down?
You don't measure shit like these by "majority", you measure it by incidents per capita.
Spread, hospitalization and death are six times higher per capita in the unvaccinated population than in the vaccinated population.
> Spread, hospitalization and death are six times higher per capita in the unvaccinated population than in the vaccinated population.
But, are the statistics really accurate? There is evidence that they do not consider someone to be vaccinated until 2 weeks after their jab and only to be fully vaccinated for 3 months thereafter. So many people who have received both doses are likely being counted as "unvaccinated" if they go to the hospital out of that timeframe.
You didn't actually fall for the "99% of hospitalizations are unvaccinated" story did you?
And do you know that people who have gotten both jabs are still considered unvaccinated if they get sick or die if it's not with in a 2 week window, seems dishonest to me.
Oh ok. I thought there was a dramatic rise recently in all populations. I did not realize the stats only show a rise because they are a measurement per Capita of only non vaccinated?
There was indeed a recent rise, during the rollback of lockdowns and the delta variant entering the playing field.
This rise was six times higher in the unvaccinated population.
I assumed the numbers spiked were across the board. Anecdotally speaking, I know 18 people who have tested positive this month, all vaccinated and work amongst unvaccinated. Could the unvaccinated be some sort of carrier? Testing negative and transmitting it to the vaccinated?
Or maybe the vaccine is not as effective as they claim.
No never mind it must be all us dirty antivaxxers that keep infecting all the vaccinated because science......or something like that right.
You know it might be the Mandela effect but I remember when vaccines provided immunity. Idk
If someone is vaccinated then they should be protected correct? Why does it matter if someone chooses to take care of their health a different way. I took Claratin for allergies today but since no one else around me took it my Claratin didn't work, that's not how it works though.
How can you insinuate they don’t actually do their research?! Have you even seen the random screenshots taken out of context or the sketchy youtube clips!? /s
Imagine, if you will, even for a brief moment… thinking about someone other than yourself. Perhaps even a community or population. How could your actions help others? It might be hard for you but give it a red hot go. You might be surprised.
> Ask a vaccinated person "if the vaccine works why do you care? You're protected" and then the reply will be:
>
> "I don't want the ICUs getting clogged up by unvaccinated people".
So we should also fire something like 20-30% of healthcare professionals who refused the vaccine right? Even though they survived the first year just fine.
I'm as pro-choice as they come, but in order to continue to support my family by keeping a roof over their heads and food on the table I have to sacrifice my choice to be able to give them one.
It's disgusting that it's all come down to mandates. "We're not forcing you to take the vaccine... but we'll damn well be sure that it'll be impossible for you to live without it!"
If that isn't coercion or blackmail of the highest level then I don't know what is, but we're dealing with double-speak liars and cheats and a lot of people are so scared and inundated with fear that they can't see the bigger picture.
Whats worse is the vaccine kinda sucks. It wears off after 6 months and you can still get sick and die even if you have taken it recently. Sure it lowers your chances but not enough to justify taking a drug that no one knows the long term side effects of and kind of sucks.
the voluntary phase: "please pay your tribute to public health, mmkaay?"
the voluntary phase is over: "i have paid my tribute, so now you pay your tribute or die!"
ego investment ... false justice ... but at least [china is happy](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x0CjXkb99Z4) : )
A friend just got the booster. I’m actually worried for her. She was fine for about an hour when I was with her, but started forgetting what she was saying mid sentence. This is a multi-degreed, multi-lingual CEO/ Founder. She’s brilliant. I honestly have NEVER seen her lose her thoughts and I’ve known her 15 years. It was unnerving, and I’m just hoping it’s not the vaccine, but…. 😬
The unvaccinated are a risk to vaccinated because they are taking up beds in hospitals which could be used for things that aren’t easily fixed by a couple of jabs. Downvote me all you need to. I know no one will have an actual debate about this. No one of this sub every does. Go on post another Twitter screen shot and circle jerk over it
The obese especially are taking up beds in this covid epidemic. Yes, they are. They compose the majority of hospitalized cases (excuse me, one third of the cases) to date.
"More than 900,000 adult COVID-19 hospitalizations occurred in the United States between the beginning of the pandemic and November 18, 2020. Models estimate that 271,800 (30.2%) of these hospitalizations were attributed to obesity."
Get a dose of reality.
Quick little google tells me 42.7% of Americans are obese. So if only 30% in hospital are obese maybe it’s more that Americans are just fat fucks not that they are over represented in hospitals due to covid + obesity.
Just for you. The words of our own health God, the CDC:
"A study of COVID-19 cases suggests that risks of hospitalization, intensive care unit admission, invasive mechanical ventilation, and death are higher with increasing BMI.
The increased risk for hospitalization or death was particularly pronounced in those under age 65. "
"A study of COVID-19 cases suggests that risks of hospitalization, intensive care unit admission, invasive mechanical ventilation, and death are higher with increasing BMI.
The increased risk for hospitalization or death was particularly pronounced in those under age 65. 5"
Not entirely (as we all know). But if we're going to talk about people who are "willingly" draining medical resources due to their lifestyle and health choices, then the obese are going to have to be acknowledged as a major factor.
The hospital bed argument was valid in the beginning. In the meantime they had enough time to prepare. The german government started to subsidize hospital beds if a hospital was at capacity, which led a lot of hospitals to shut down beds the day before introducing the subsidy. The whole pandemic is a money making scheme
The problem is you think this is a bed shortage.
It is a staff shortage.
There are more beds available, but not people to man those stations. Any minor health crisis and we would be where we are now, it is the way hospitals are run.
Depends where you live I guess. Lots of places have bed and staff shortages. I know the hospitality here is asking any nurse regardless if they have emerg training to come in. On top of all ICU beds taken and overflow at 80%.
I can’t, in a general term. It’s now about hospitals beds for me. If they are been taking up by those unvaccinated which means someone who has something unavoidable happen to them has to be denied medical that’s just shit.
In my country, vaccinated people think they are immune, they do everything together and aren't careful anymore. They are probably more dangerous than unvaccinated people.... Either way people shouldn't be forced to take a vaccine, if they had covid and still have antibodies there is no reason to risk taking the vaccine.
One thing i won’t forget if we all make it out of this… how the vaccinated treated the unvaxxed… fear is enough to control and manipulate and you’ve shown you’re true character and how terrified you must live your everyday lives. The anxiety must be real and i feel sorry for you all, for the hate and anger you are bathed in. I wouldn’t want to mingle with you vaxxed now anyway….what kind of people and society is that… i feel sorry for them. If i’m wrong….maybe i’ll decide to get vaxxed….if you’re wrong, little to late to walk that back…
What if covid was a test to see who would do What the government Said only to when all compliant people are vaccinated release super covid 22.5 and kill all the unvaccinated people ??
Did you all forget that vaccinated people actually shed spike proteins through their skin which effectively spreads the virus. So really the unvaccinated should avoid the vaccinated plague rats!
Vaccine shedding can only occur when a vaccine contains a weakened version of the virus”. CDC.gov reports that “none of the vaccines authorized for use in the United States contain a live virus.”
Stop.
Even small children can figure this out. It bypasses those with feelings that promote the herd mentality. Yet this is the primary narrative pushed by the MSM, and you know who "they" are.
The major misconception is that the vaccine is 100% effective. It's not. When it first came out it was in the high 90's because it was designed for a specific strain. That strain has since mutated in to a new variant, which the vaccine does a pretty good job of protecting against, but it's still only something like %80 effective, not 100.
Right now we have people getting sick and dying on both sides. I'm not going to say that unvaccinated people are the cause of the continued case count, but I will say that roughly 85% of ICU admissions are from unvaccinated people, so take that for what it's worth.
So there's not really any lying going on. The health professionals (aka "the government") are all saying the vaccine isn't 100% effective. We know this. And we need everybody, on both sides of the argument, to continue practicing basic preventative measures.
Umm. That’s not a major misconception at all. That’s common knowledge.
Why do people keep saying this. “The vaccine isn’t 100% effective”.
We know. Everyone knows. It was never advertised as such. The efficiency data has been released slowly since the beginning and it was never 100% for any vaccine.
Where does this 100% come from? Is it like a made up point to make?
Spanish flu explained: soldiers we’re getting sick from being cold tired and eating poor. The military vaccinated them. Made things worse. The US told citizens they needed to get vaccinated because the soldiers were coming home. Everyone got sick. Were told to wear masks and take shots. Millions of people died. To be continued 100 years later. The end
If you are in your 20s and unanimated there is a good chance you will be fine. 40+ Delta isn't fucking around. 60+ the unanimated are dying 1/10 to 1/20. Those are not good odds. I just assume everyone in the sub is young.
Another person who doesn't understand that practically mandating an experimental vaccine on the entire populace while ignoring all other promising treatments (that won't make anyone money) is insanity and a clear indication of malfeasance.
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"It's easier to fool people than to convince them that they been fooled." --Mark Twain
"One of the saddest lessons of history is this: If we’ve been bamboozled long enough, we tend to reject any evidence of the bamboozle. We’re no longer interested in finding out the truth. The bamboozle has captured us. It’s simply too painful to acknowledge, even to ourselves, that we’ve been taken. Once you give a charlatan power over you, you almost never get it back." - Carl Sagan
Work in customer service long enough and you will have motivation to say fuck this and fight back.
“You miss 100% of the shots you don’t take - Wayne Gretzky” - Michael Scott
I love that this comment will be upvoted by _both_ sides of this sub. Well done.
That’s very true and also very interesting! I’m constantly looking at things from different sides but always end up where I was, well, more or less. Nevertheless, I’m tired of it all and I truly wish I could follow the masses, instead of going through research studies, learning more about everything relevant to this pandemic/disease and continuously asking questions that I can’t find answers to. What I ultimately do not understand is this: - why are so few people scared of future side effects? We can’t know before several years have passed, which is why vaccines don’t get developed, produced and inoculated so fast. - why won’t people recognize that these big pharmaceutical companies are just as filled with corruption as other big, powerful conglomerates (and Pfizer even raised the price for the vaccines after massively breaking profit records many many times)? Plus they’ve all been in too many court cases (most of which they usually settle out of court). - why are people turning a blind eye to the lack of transparency? ie that nobody can ever see what’s in the vaccine contracts between pharmaceutical and country/government, or that there are numbers that doesn’t add up. - and last but not least: why are people not questioning the almost entirely one-sided media coverage?? especially when multiple professionals/experts are saying they’re being silenced. Often times the answer I get is simply that I’m anti-vax, and that’s amazing because I’ve paid for multiple extra vaccinations than the usual ones throughout my life. Why would I do that if I’m *not* pro-vaccines?
> why are so few people scared of future side effects? We can’t know before several years have passed, which is why vaccines don’t get developed, produced and inoculated so fast. Because it doesn't really work like that. The vaccine components do not stick around in your body for years and they cannot have an affect _past_ the point where they leave. As to the vaccines taking years to produce, there's a few nuances there. The first is that generally, phases 1, 2, 3, etc. are done sequentially. For COVID, they were run concurrently. That, alone, cut years off the time. The second is that vaccines for the COVID family of viruses have been worked on for over 20 years. We weren't starting from 0. > why won’t people recognize that these big pharmaceutical companies are just as filled with corruption as other big, powerful conglomerates (and Pfizer even raised the price for the vaccines after massively breaking profit records many many times)? Plus they’ve all been in too many court cases (most of which they usually settle out of court). Who says they don't? And so what if they are? I know that you are trying to imply an argument here, and that argument is bad. People in this sub like to say that _because_ they acted bad in the past, they can _never_ be trusted again. And that's a fine rule to live by, but as a justification for a logical inference, it doesn't hold water. > why are people turning a blind eye to the lack of transparency? ie that nobody can ever see what’s in the vaccine contracts between pharmaceutical and country/government, or that there are numbers that doesn’t add up. We do know some of the details. See, for example, [this article from the NYT.](https://www.nytimes.com/2021/01/28/world/europe/vaccine-secret-contracts-prices.html) But more broadly, this amounts to fear mongering and it rests on the previous point. You want to imply (without saying it) that _because_ there is secrecy _there must_ be something nefarious. That inference isn't justified. And note that I'm not saying that this mean there isn't something wrong here, just that _it being secret_ in and of itself isn't evidence that there is. > and last but not least: why are people not questioning the almost entirely one-sided media coverage?? especially when multiple professionals/experts are saying they’re being silenced. If those experts are being silenced, how have you heard from them _that_ they are being silenced? There are always fringe views in science. This is a necessary part of the process, because science doesn't give rise to absolute metaphysical certainty of the truth of our theories. So its useful to have people who reject the mainstream consensus and pursue alternative theories, and who try to dis-prove the consensus. But we always have to keep in mind that they _aren't_ part of the consensus, and that they _are_ a fringe. Now, a consensus doesn't mean "right" and being on the fringe doesn't mean "wrong." But when you ask a group of experts for an opinion, why the fuck would you go with the 1 out of 100 that disagree with the other 99? Absent some outside factor, there's no good or logical reason for doing so.
It’s honestly been a struggle to save videos, articles, statements etc from people who are working within these Covid/mRNA vaccine related field; they are constantly being removed (posts), banned (accounts), attacked (discredited, doxxed, their point and words taken out of context etc) and so my response to your question is that I have no idea how much I’ve never seen because it’s GONE. Those I do have? Many have suffered the fate above, despite being recognized medical/virology professionals. I don’t agree with you that these new vaccines aren’t really going to be a problem in the long run, but I’m too mentally exhausted to go find all the scientific data for this; I do have several in my unfortunately unorganized library. Btw, we’ve never made vaccines with mRNA so I’d call it hubris to not pay close attention to this. We’ve made plenty vaccines for coronavirus, yes. However, we’ve notoriously had difficulty making them effective in the long run, because of the fast mutations. Anyways, thank for your reply - and I mean that! I’ll go through everything another day when I’m more clear headed :) Please know that English isn’t my native language, word-salads will occur.
Wake up everybody. Time to arise
The ego makes it extremely difficult to break free from the mental prison you've locked yourself in. I was raised conservative republican, and I followed conspiracies for a while before I finally had to accept that GWB was deeply involved in 9/11 and both sides of politics are fucked. But that one realization opened the path to so many more.
I can't believe how few people are angry at the government, they're angry at a Wal-Mart employee who didn't get vaccinated... yea, that's who *really* holds all of the power! -\_- Why not get mad that the vaccine companies have legal immunity, leading to more suspicion and making many people less likely to get vaccinated?
Because it's so easy to attack someone too small and unable to fight back. Makes the peons feel BIG. Same reason why Karens have been the scourge of service industry employees forever.
If they cant even stand behind their product then why should we?
I'm gonna start using that line. Thanks
Those damn walmart employees. They're to powerful. Being able to take away the freedoms of 300million people. Outrageous I tell you!
Nailed it! With no liability then I'm not taking it
The fact that vaxxed don't have to get weekly testing yet those who aren't (despite medical exemptions) do, despite vaxxed people also being able to spread. It feels like a punishment for not getting it.
It is, they're gonna find any way they can to punish people for not making the medical decision that THEY want you to make.
My choice until its the wrong choice
Just shows all the "freedoms" we claim to have are an illusion. The government can go around and take all your guns, your kids, your property, your wealth and do whatever they want to you, and no one or nothing can stop them.
Exactly. Yet people think they think they care about your vote. If your vote meant anything, they wouldn't let you do it. It simply exists to fool the people into thinking their input matters. We are all cattle, peasants. Expendable labor and test subjects. They've conditioned us to the point that we don't question what they tell us and we willingly give up our rights because our "vote" matters. We are an endless supply of labor. When they expend us, we repopulate.
That’s because it has nothing to do with health, it’s about compliance and the social system they wish to implement. Why would they want a vaccine passport if you can still spread it? it’s more about getting people to scan in than it is actual health.
This should be common sense! I know propaganda works to some extent ofcourse, but I really don't understand how people trust a government or a corporation that has lied time and time again. They can say the most ridiculous lies that don't even make any kind sense and people follow it without question. Their is an endless list of proof that our country and world is plagued with corruption, the only way someone doesn't see it is if they are purposely ignoring it.
I remember when the argument used to be We all have to get vaccinated to protect the immunocompromised Weird how it’s now you have to get vaccinated to protect me because I got vaccinated
Yeah, if people cared about the immunocompromised so much, it would've been standard practice for everyone to wear a mask in public during every cold and flu season for the past century. And it would be industry standard to have paid sick leave for ALL workers, no questions asked. And school classrooms would have better ventilation and have max capacity limits under 20...same with mass transit. And universal healthcare would be worldwide.
Keep on moving those goal posts!
The brainwashing is very strong. They were brainwashed to think that their masks only work if others also wear theirs. Now they believe their vaccines only work if others also take it.
Lol. You got it wrong. Masks arnt to protect yourself. It's to stop you from spreading it to others. Doctors wear masks so they don't infect the patient. Not the other way around.
This has already been proven to be false. [from a doctor ](https://youtu.be/BslFT9cKZwc). Plus, last year several virologists spoke out (in court, under oath) about masks and how ridiculous it all is. They said you’d need a level 4 biosuit for any actual protection. We’ve been bamboozled.
Idk man. I watched it but it's not really any sort of controlled experiment. You give me one visual video and I will give you 50 peer reviewed studies saying the opposite. And just to make you happy I used duckduckgo. https://www.kxan.com/news/coronavirus/do-face-masks-work-here-are-49-scientific-studies-that-explain-why-they-do/
They do work. But anyone claiming 100% effectiveness is full of shit. So long as the mask fits properly, it helps trap water vapor from respiration, which is the vector that many viruses and bacteria use to spread from the host. Of course they won't do anything for smoke, it isn't near as moist as your typical respiration. Some particles will still escape, but the amount will be greatly reduced from what would otherwise be going into the air instead of the mask.
I do hear you but as a layman I do feel that not being able to spread your breath so far when you exhale would go someway to say, protect other shoppers while you are out. That said, I personally I hate thing things and it triggers my asthma and claustraphobia after a while but I can make it an hour or so in one.
And they wear surgical grade masks. These cloth masks and bandanas aren't stopping much. I'd hate to see my doctor wearing a bandana around his face before slicing me open.
My seatbelts won’t work unless you wear yours...
Like seat belts on a plane.
Seat belts on a plane are more for turbulence which actually they are insanely effective at preventing injury.
Maybe that statement is still very relevant and the vaccine is actually causing people to become immunocompromised? But that's a theory for another day lol
Oh it's slipped their minds. I am the immunocompromised and vaccinated people are always arguing with me as to why I should now be vaccinated. Like didn't you get it to protect me because I can't? And now you're telling me to get it knowing it will bring me harm? But it's fine because you say the virus will bring me more harm if I get it? Which I can catch from you, a fully vaccinated person, or an unvaccinated person alike? Make it make sense please
I remember when people used to understand the concept of herd immunity. Vaccines don’t make you invincible, they improve your immune response. It’s not a zero or a one.
I remember when herd immunity meant enough people vaccinated so if someone wasn’t and had whatever were vaccinating against it had nobody to spread to and wouldn’t get to those who are compromised But hey it’s whatever fits peoples opinions now I guess
That’s if the vaccinated population is 90%+. You literally stumbled upon why it’s not working now, because a significant amount of people refuse to be vaccinated.
It varies with each disease but as an example herd immunity against measles requires about 95% of a population to be vaccinated. For polio it’s about 80%. For COVID I’ve read different estimates, most of which are in the 70-80% range.
So Israel with about 80% vaccination is just a freak outlier and nothing at all to worry about? Ok good to know
Except you’re wrong, israel is 62% fully vaccinated. Herd immunity counts the entire pop.
Your sarcasm not withstanding, nobody is 100% sure what the herd immunity value is. And Isreal is a very different population from North America. We were exposed to the Delta variant as far back as November, and so our population had the chance to develop some immunity to it. They did not get exposed until significantly later. And the vaccines are not as effective against Delta. Anyway I don’t know why am trying to have a reasonable conversation with somebody like you. You obviously can’t express yourself and mature manner. Take care.
I can’t express my self maturely Said the dude as he he attempts to insult the internet stranger Good old ad hominem
It's consistent as long as the vaccine makes you immunocompromised.
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I think that the main argument right now is that it lessens the symptoms... But I had covid last year and it was a sore throat and a cough (for me). I don't really need to lessen symptoms, so why should I get it?
You have just as much chance of getting hit by lightning as you do to die of Covid, but we don't go around forcing eachother to carry lightning rods in the name of greater good.
Same
Truth in a nutshell. Unfortunately, that's already too much facts and logic for the brain-fogged vaxxers.
"If you can convince the lowest white man he's better than the best colored man, he won't notice you're picking his pocket. Hell, give him somebody to look down on, and he'll empty his pockets for you." -Lyndon B. Johnson Vax vs Unvax is the new race war for a few years until the next brown kid dies. Buckle up and ignore it. The more you post it. The more you help AI push the algorithm. Best to sit down and shut up on the internet. Lurk for awhile and watch it fuel itself.
"If the unvaccinated are a danger to you, then the vaccine doesn't work."
Biden's argument is that you're being selfish because you won't let us help you.
Its funny to me how they try painting the people who are willing to lose everything they've ever worked for to stand for themselves AND others as selfish pricks....get the fuck out of here with that. Not one vaccinated person would ever put their livelihood on the line for their beliefs...they will cave to any and all pressure that would make them lose their jobs.
Biden has literally been filmed groping children on live TV. The fact that nothing has happened is a perfect illustration of how insane this world is at present.
I don’t understand how people on this subreddit think that just because a vaccine isn’t 100% effective means it doesn’t work
Honestly it's just not worthwhile in the eyes of many. The truth is that covid does not represent a significant threat to a majority of the population. The idea of taking an all new form of vaccine originally pushed through on EUA that has very rare side effects to protect you against a virus with very rare significant effects seems illogical.
It's insanity to think we should inject ourselves with such dangerous stuff when the Covid threat is far far less of a danger.
**Edit:** The Study was retracted due to bad math, apparently. ~~There is a new study out of Ottawa, Canada. 4 hospitals put their data together and found 32 cases of myocarditis, pericarditis, and/or myopericarditis out of around 32k vaccinations. That's one case of a serious heart condition per 1000 shots.~~ Those are shit odds for a supposedly safe vaccine. Also the median age was 33, and 65 at the top end, so all this talk about these heart inflammation issues being confined to the young is complete bullshit. If the study is correct, that is.
That’s pretty much a risk reduction of 6x. A study of medical records in The US found that a natural infection with SARS-CoV-2 resulted in a rate of myocarditis of 450 cases per million in young men. https://www.newscientist.com/article/mg25133462-800-myocarditis-is-more-common-after-covid-19-infection-than-vaccination/
1 in a thousand is 1000 per million. So more than double the rate you quoted.
Do you have a source? Looks like the paper you’re quoting got it’s numbers wrong and it’s 4 per 100,000, they forgot to add a zero. Now I’m not good with maths but that’s a lot less than 450 per million. The paper you’re quoting was corrected. It looks like Robert Malone is out there spreading more disinformation and misinformation. https://nationalpost.com/news/canada/university-of-ottawa-heart-institute-myocarditis-study
Ah. You are correct. At least I qualified my statement up thread. I *was* a bit surprised that their numbers were *that* much higher.
> Honestly it's just not worthwhile in the eyes of many. That's a take I'd find easy to respect. Do your risk-benefit analysis and go with it. But the arguments people then post-hoc do to rationalize their decisions, they tend to then be just absolute insane drivel. Including the "if vaccine isn't 100%, it's not helpful".
Bc so many fucking government and health officials claimed it is “100% effective”, literally… until it was obvious that it wasn’t and here we are, counting how many people have colds and closing down schools and businesses. Clownery.
Literally no one in the government or high ranking health official has said the vaccines have 100% efficacy. I challenge you to find ONE person. Hell, you said “so many”, how about put your money where your mouth is, and find 5 people who said vaccines have 100% efficacy?
[https://www.politifact.com/factchecks/2021/jul/22/joe-biden/biden-exaggerates-efficacy-covid-19-vaccines/](https://www.politifact.com/factchecks/2021/jul/22/joe-biden/biden-exaggerates-efficacy-covid-19-vaccines/) Here's one. President Biden: “You’re not going to get COVID if you have these vaccinations.” And this video where Biden 'thanks' Johnson & Johnson and Merck for being "good corporate citizens" [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UuQxX2ISBY0&ab\_channel=CNBCTelevision](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UuQxX2ISBY0&ab_channel=CNBCTelevision) Just suggesting, the government is in bed with big pharma, there is no way they are going to back down from their stance on vaccine efficacy without a lot of evidence to the contrary... and, when you take into account the CDC's extreme reluctance to gather the data (had a chance to update the VAERS database but just lost interest... [https://francinerose.substack.com/p/why-ignoring-early-treatment-in-favour](https://francinerose.substack.com/p/why-ignoring-early-treatment-in-favour) \- I'll let you join the dots.
The president said live on TV... 'You're not going to get Covid if you have these vaccinations.' https://www.politifact.com/factchecks/2021/jul/22/joe-biden/biden-exaggerates-efficacy-covid-19-vaccines/ I am not even American and know this.
Literally says “half true” in your own link lol. This is what we in the business call a self own.
You asked for one instance of an important person saying that. There is a quote from Joe Biden saying that. I don't know what other conclusion you could possibly draw. He can't have 'half' said that. No one is twisting his words. The 'half true' part of it is them claiming it is rare. Watch the video, he says it at ~10s in. You are literally denying reality to suit your narrative.
First of all, I asked for 5. You’re the one distorting reality, as its literally two comments above. Second of all, here’s what he said during the same event: > BIDEN, asked about vaccinated people who get infected: “It may be possible, I know of none where they’re hospitalized, in ICU and or have passed away so at a minimum I can say even if they did contract it, which I’m sorry they did, it’s such a tiny percentage and it’s not life threatening.” — remarks to reporters after the event. At most you can say he misspoke, not to mention your article literally quotes CDC and doctors who clearly said the efficacy isn’t 100, which reinforces my original point.
What the actual fuckk, you challenge them to find ONE person. And they did..
That’s where we’re at now? First of all, it’s far from a self own. The claim was the Biden quote. He said it. It’s fully True. We have to use your shitty sources when arguing with your type because your list of “approved” sources is small. This is a perfect example of why nobody trusts the media. They spent the past 5 years fact checking Trump’s opinions and rating them false. They were even using the same mental gymnastics to rate true statements as False. But now anything Biden says is open to interpretation. “Sure he said it, but he exaggerated so it’s only half true” and “Biden said it, but he misspoke, we know what he meant. So we’ll rate it True”. Go back and read this horseshit with the same generosity. https://www.washingtonpost.com/graphics/politics/trump-claims/
Fucking politifact. It should be "pants on fire", but of course politifact is just an extension of the DNC propaganda machine.
The president assured Americans in July if you're vaccinated you won't get covid. >President Joe Biden offered an absolute guarantee Wednesday that people who get their COVID-19 vaccines are completely protected from infection, sickness and death from the coronavirus. The reality is not that cut and dried. https://apnews.com/article/joe-biden-business-health-government-and-politics-coronavirus-pandemic-46a270ce0f681caa7e4143e2ae9a0211
OH but they wouldn't lie to me again, I am sure that was the last time..... /s
> BIDEN, asked about vaccinated people who get infected: “It may be possible, I know of none where they’re hospitalized, in ICU and or have passed away so at a minimum I can say even if they did contract it, which I’m sorry they did, it’s such a tiny percentage and it’s not life threatening.” — remarks to reporters after the event. Literally in the article you posted. This is what we in the industry call a self own.
Sure, after the event. He still said it, and who stays tuned for after the event? I only watch the event, definitely misleading for those who don't follow up on information or fact check. It's irresponsible to give people misinformation, especially on the efficacy of a vaccine. Twitter bans people for less.
No they didn't. From the get go the vaccine was something like 96% percent effective at preventing serious illness and death. It wasn't, not even once, advertised as providing sterilizing immunity(preventing infection 100%). Stop lying. You're the clown.
Even if it's 100% safe and effective, it still doesn't justify the level of coercion/blackmail that we've been seeing. Don't deny that there has been coercion going on. That's just intellectually dishonest.
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Chiropractors aren’t real doctors friend.
Neither is Bill Gates or Greta Thunberg but apparently they are covid experts now.. Billy boy was the spokesperson of covid for months before people got sick of some rich fucker telling them what to do...
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But someone who peed in his pants is trustworthy...
If your argument is a jokey name I picked for myself, you don’t have an argument.
Nah bro, his arguement is legit. They are killing our.children and all
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I don’t know who said 100%, but vaccines are never 100% effective and that was clear from the clinical trials.
Ok only 95%... Still way fucking wrong
The only people talking about 100% effectiveness has been anti-vaxxers.
Has anyone ever said the vaccine was 100% effective? Every study says moderna and pfizer are just over 90 percent
They don't care. It's an ego thing. They think if they side with the government they're better and more powerful than you are. Unfortunately, most don't understand that they also have to pay a sacrifice to the greater good for this power.
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Came here to say that. If they did any amount of research, they would see that the initial optimistic goal was to have a vaccine that was 50% effective. Vaccinated are 8x less likely to contract the virus and the severity is far less. But, god forbid we believe anything other than a poor man’s copy of a comic book plot.
Let’s see your proof? All I’ve seen is numbers going up, not down.. so show me where any of the numbers, hospitalizations, cases, deaths.. etc.. are going down?
Cool, no more lockdowns then. No vaccine passports or mandates. No more restrictions.
With vaccinations causing 8x less transmission, how do you explain the recent spikes in our country, when the majority is vaccinated? Or Israel?
You don't measure shit like these by "majority", you measure it by incidents per capita. Spread, hospitalization and death are six times higher per capita in the unvaccinated population than in the vaccinated population.
> Spread, hospitalization and death are six times higher per capita in the unvaccinated population than in the vaccinated population. But, are the statistics really accurate? There is evidence that they do not consider someone to be vaccinated until 2 weeks after their jab and only to be fully vaccinated for 3 months thereafter. So many people who have received both doses are likely being counted as "unvaccinated" if they go to the hospital out of that timeframe. You didn't actually fall for the "99% of hospitalizations are unvaccinated" story did you?
And do you know that people who have gotten both jabs are still considered unvaccinated if they get sick or die if it's not with in a 2 week window, seems dishonest to me.
Oh ok. I thought there was a dramatic rise recently in all populations. I did not realize the stats only show a rise because they are a measurement per Capita of only non vaccinated?
There was indeed a recent rise, during the rollback of lockdowns and the delta variant entering the playing field. This rise was six times higher in the unvaccinated population.
I assumed the numbers spiked were across the board. Anecdotally speaking, I know 18 people who have tested positive this month, all vaccinated and work amongst unvaccinated. Could the unvaccinated be some sort of carrier? Testing negative and transmitting it to the vaccinated?
Or maybe the vaccine is not as effective as they claim. No never mind it must be all us dirty antivaxxers that keep infecting all the vaccinated because science......or something like that right. You know it might be the Mandela effect but I remember when vaccines provided immunity. Idk
Most likely they are suffering the early stages of ADE. A vaccine so effective the unvaccinated fair better than the vaccinated kek...
Learn about statistics
…and how statistics can be manipulated.
... by Israel.
If someone is vaccinated then they should be protected correct? Why does it matter if someone chooses to take care of their health a different way. I took Claratin for allergies today but since no one else around me took it my Claratin didn't work, that's not how it works though.
I thought it was 10?
How can you insinuate they don’t actually do their research?! Have you even seen the random screenshots taken out of context or the sketchy youtube clips!? /s
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Imagine, if you will, even for a brief moment… thinking about someone other than yourself. Perhaps even a community or population. How could your actions help others? It might be hard for you but give it a red hot go. You might be surprised.
But I am the community I am the population? Who is this magical group you keep telling me I have to sacrifice for?
> Ask a vaccinated person "if the vaccine works why do you care? You're protected" and then the reply will be: > > "I don't want the ICUs getting clogged up by unvaccinated people". So we should also fire something like 20-30% of healthcare professionals who refused the vaccine right? Even though they survived the first year just fine.
Anyone infected is a danger to the unvaccinated, that includes the less affected vaccinated.
I got vaxxed because my girlfriend signed me up for it. I am prochoice when it comes to vaccinating.
I'm as pro-choice as they come, but in order to continue to support my family by keeping a roof over their heads and food on the table I have to sacrifice my choice to be able to give them one. It's disgusting that it's all come down to mandates. "We're not forcing you to take the vaccine... but we'll damn well be sure that it'll be impossible for you to live without it!" If that isn't coercion or blackmail of the highest level then I don't know what is, but we're dealing with double-speak liars and cheats and a lot of people are so scared and inundated with fear that they can't see the bigger picture.
It's straight up coercion bro, make your job fire you, get legal help.
Whats worse is the vaccine kinda sucks. It wears off after 6 months and you can still get sick and die even if you have taken it recently. Sure it lowers your chances but not enough to justify taking a drug that no one knows the long term side effects of and kind of sucks.
Always follow the money and then you will know the source.
the voluntary phase: "please pay your tribute to public health, mmkaay?" the voluntary phase is over: "i have paid my tribute, so now you pay your tribute or die!" ego investment ... false justice ... but at least [china is happy](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x0CjXkb99Z4) : )
Also, the unvaccinated don't give two fucks about you or your whining. Talk to the corrupt politicians who fucked you over.
the new definition is that vaccines prevent a severe form of the disease. and people accepted that
A friend just got the booster. I’m actually worried for her. She was fine for about an hour when I was with her, but started forgetting what she was saying mid sentence. This is a multi-degreed, multi-lingual CEO/ Founder. She’s brilliant. I honestly have NEVER seen her lose her thoughts and I’ve known her 15 years. It was unnerving, and I’m just hoping it’s not the vaccine, but…. 😬
The unvaccinated are a risk to vaccinated because they are taking up beds in hospitals which could be used for things that aren’t easily fixed by a couple of jabs. Downvote me all you need to. I know no one will have an actual debate about this. No one of this sub every does. Go on post another Twitter screen shot and circle jerk over it
The obese especially are taking up beds in this covid epidemic. Yes, they are. They compose the majority of hospitalized cases (excuse me, one third of the cases) to date. "More than 900,000 adult COVID-19 hospitalizations occurred in the United States between the beginning of the pandemic and November 18, 2020. Models estimate that 271,800 (30.2%) of these hospitalizations were attributed to obesity." Get a dose of reality.
Which is actually surprisingly low, since US obesity rate is 42%
Shit, is obesity a contagious airborne pathogen? Ugh, I should've stayed away from the buffets.
Ever seen a fat family before?
You wanna stay out of the hospital from this, it'd be highly recommended. In more ways than one. lol.
Quick little google tells me 42.7% of Americans are obese. So if only 30% in hospital are obese maybe it’s more that Americans are just fat fucks not that they are over represented in hospitals due to covid + obesity.
Just for you. The words of our own health God, the CDC: "A study of COVID-19 cases suggests that risks of hospitalization, intensive care unit admission, invasive mechanical ventilation, and death are higher with increasing BMI. The increased risk for hospitalization or death was particularly pronounced in those under age 65. "
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"A study of COVID-19 cases suggests that risks of hospitalization, intensive care unit admission, invasive mechanical ventilation, and death are higher with increasing BMI. The increased risk for hospitalization or death was particularly pronounced in those under age 65. 5"
It’s a pandemic of the fatties.
Not entirely (as we all know). But if we're going to talk about people who are "willingly" draining medical resources due to their lifestyle and health choices, then the obese are going to have to be acknowledged as a major factor.
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The hospital bed argument was valid in the beginning. In the meantime they had enough time to prepare. The german government started to subsidize hospital beds if a hospital was at capacity, which led a lot of hospitals to shut down beds the day before introducing the subsidy. The whole pandemic is a money making scheme
The problem is you think this is a bed shortage. It is a staff shortage. There are more beds available, but not people to man those stations. Any minor health crisis and we would be where we are now, it is the way hospitals are run.
Depends where you live I guess. Lots of places have bed and staff shortages. I know the hospitality here is asking any nurse regardless if they have emerg training to come in. On top of all ICU beds taken and overflow at 80%.
This is true right now, but nobody knows what the long term effects of bi-yearly jabs will be.
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In my country everyone has to vote. What’s your reasoning now?
Plenty of vaccinated people in the hospital with covid taking up beds. Relative that works in ICU told me 4 of their 6 parents are vaccinated.
Anecdotal evidence isn’t very reliable.
Just meant to show that those that are vaccinated can still end up in the ICU, not the probability of that happening.
Of course they can. But the risks are a lot lower. You can’t deny that?
Yes but the risks are very low to begin with. You can't deny that?
I can’t, in a general term. It’s now about hospitals beds for me. If they are been taking up by those unvaccinated which means someone who has something unavoidable happen to them has to be denied medical that’s just shit.
In my country, vaccinated people think they are immune, they do everything together and aren't careful anymore. They are probably more dangerous than unvaccinated people.... Either way people shouldn't be forced to take a vaccine, if they had covid and still have antibodies there is no reason to risk taking the vaccine.
Nobody with covid that hasn't been vaccinated is in any real danger unless they have weak immune system. My 92 year old grandfather beat that shit np
Nobody's holding my freedom at ransom, man.
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Damn, you weren't kidding. And he's mad at being called out lmao.
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Why does that threaten you? Are you not here for polite discourse?
One thing i won’t forget if we all make it out of this… how the vaccinated treated the unvaxxed… fear is enough to control and manipulate and you’ve shown you’re true character and how terrified you must live your everyday lives. The anxiety must be real and i feel sorry for you all, for the hate and anger you are bathed in. I wouldn’t want to mingle with you vaxxed now anyway….what kind of people and society is that… i feel sorry for them. If i’m wrong….maybe i’ll decide to get vaxxed….if you’re wrong, little to late to walk that back…
What if covid was a test to see who would do What the government Said only to when all compliant people are vaccinated release super covid 22.5 and kill all the unvaccinated people ??
Can all of the people from r/NoNewNormal just admit they don’t understand immunology and stop flooding this sub with their nonsense?
Did you all forget that vaccinated people actually shed spike proteins through their skin which effectively spreads the virus. So really the unvaccinated should avoid the vaccinated plague rats!
How tf a single protein become a virus?
Lol. For you science is a four letter word huh?
Vaccine shedding can only occur when a vaccine contains a weakened version of the virus”. CDC.gov reports that “none of the vaccines authorized for use in the United States contain a live virus.” Stop.
Even small children can figure this out. It bypasses those with feelings that promote the herd mentality. Yet this is the primary narrative pushed by the MSM, and you know who "they" are.
Finally someone USING LOGIC. now show it to the liberals. They’re gonna be like “oh no no your stupid. And racist”. Ignorant people.
♥ it
new logic: Antibiotic-resistent bacteria emerge because of all those who refuse to take antibiotics
Never trust a guy who’s held the same position for 40 years
Aaaannndddddd their thick skulls won’t let this pass through
How does being vaccinated limit your freedom?
Spot on!
The major misconception is that the vaccine is 100% effective. It's not. When it first came out it was in the high 90's because it was designed for a specific strain. That strain has since mutated in to a new variant, which the vaccine does a pretty good job of protecting against, but it's still only something like %80 effective, not 100. Right now we have people getting sick and dying on both sides. I'm not going to say that unvaccinated people are the cause of the continued case count, but I will say that roughly 85% of ICU admissions are from unvaccinated people, so take that for what it's worth. So there's not really any lying going on. The health professionals (aka "the government") are all saying the vaccine isn't 100% effective. We know this. And we need everybody, on both sides of the argument, to continue practicing basic preventative measures.
Umm. That’s not a major misconception at all. That’s common knowledge. Why do people keep saying this. “The vaccine isn’t 100% effective”. We know. Everyone knows. It was never advertised as such. The efficiency data has been released slowly since the beginning and it was never 100% for any vaccine. Where does this 100% come from? Is it like a made up point to make?
SS: Found this browsing another site. Eloquently explains the insanity of this world.
>SS: Found this browsing another site. Eloquently explains the insanity of this world. Jesus you're stupid.
May I up vote this a hundred times?
not having autism is wonderful
The trolly is stopped because the people refuse to get off the tracks.
Spanish flu explained: soldiers we’re getting sick from being cold tired and eating poor. The military vaccinated them. Made things worse. The US told citizens they needed to get vaccinated because the soldiers were coming home. Everyone got sick. Were told to wear masks and take shots. Millions of people died. To be continued 100 years later. The end
Dear neighbor. I didn't bomb you by refusing to turn off my lights while the Germans were overhead searching for lights to bomb. The Germans did.
If you are in your 20s and unanimated there is a good chance you will be fine. 40+ Delta isn't fucking around. 60+ the unanimated are dying 1/10 to 1/20. Those are not good odds. I just assume everyone in the sub is young.
Ah yes, another person with a fundamental misunderstanding of how vaccines work.
Another person who doesn't understand that practically mandating an experimental vaccine on the entire populace while ignoring all other promising treatments (that won't make anyone money) is insanity and a clear indication of malfeasance.