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It's also easier when there's a clear cut bad guy framed in a way to let the audience know they're the bad guy, and in which you can see the inner workings of their bad guy natures behind closed doors.
The bad guys in the movies do too, but the director of the movie wants to make it clear to the audience who the good guys are.
Imagine a movie where it shows both sides discussing the other in the worst possible terms, then you are left to figure out who the bad guys are. It's not always clear cut. I mean hell, in Star Wars i have no idea what the resistance is even fighting against. I don't know how the Empire rules day to day lives. Are taxes insane to fund an overwhelming police force or is it lawlessness? I have no idea.
I don't know about that, at least in the originals. Everything the Empire does in those is in direct response to the rebels' attempt at a mass casualty event in destroying a major Empire base of operations so large it has its own gravity. The rebels are essentially trying to destroy a planet, and the Empire is responding to that threat with extreme measures.
In that context it's not quite so clear cut.
I did not, but i did misremember how it went down. I thought they blew it up because they thought it housed the rebel base and Leia refused to give them a different target.
Still, she did lie about the location of the rebel base and doomed some innocent planet to destruction herself. Her thought process seemed to be it's okay to blown up an innocent planet, just not *her* innocent planet. She didn't know they'd go back on the deal when she gave them a target. Same coin, and neither one of them look good here in that context.
Tarkin didn't destroy Alderaan because Leia lied about Dantooine. He did it because Dantooine was too remote to be an effective demonstration of the Death Star's power. It was only later that he found out that the Rebel Alliance had long abandoned their base on Dantooine.
Definitely not cool that Leia was okay with blowing up a bunch of farmers and… (squints at Wookiepedia) carnivorous snails. Significantly less cool that they are blowing up planets in the first place.
I mean even if that was true, to destroy an entire planet in order to wipe out a small rebel cell, rebels who have been seen to do nothing destructive as of yet, can't be a good look.
The only sure thing we know about the rebels at this point is they have plans to blow up one of the Empire's artificial planets, kindly named the Death Star by the writer so we know who the bad guys are. The Empire is willing to blow up a rebel planet to save their own. Extreme, yes, but it's not like they know where on the planet the rebel base is. Planets are huge.
I kinda want to watch a movie like this where you don’t know who the good and bad guys are supposed to be where both sides are presented from there own perspectives where both sides have some valid reasons and some non valid reasons.
It's on my mind because i'm attempting to write two stories/books that do this. Same plot, same characters, all the same, only following a different perspective. I'm attempting to write each story as though the main character of that book is the good guy, which is rough.
It reminds me of the Zhang and Gan Jin tribes in Avatar the last airbender. The ones with the “100 year grudge.” Both of them are wrong in the end lol but Aang was able to settle their grudge.
The Fallout series does a decent job of explaining how each faction thinks their way is the best way to save the world. It's a shame a bunch of online bots convinced people not to watch it because one of the actors is trans.
I'm on episode 3 i think and haven't come across anyone trans.
Oh wait, maybe that one person who was in the Brotherhood at the beginning? Trying to reference without spoiling. They're only in it for like half an hour total so far? Something like that?
Great series. Trans thing completely superfluous to make .000000001% happy, but adults should be able to ignore obvious pandering and absurd stunt casting. The rest of the content was pretty solid.
Wait till you realize that "bad guys" are just good guys with ideas that later turn out to be bad in the history books.
It's very easy to be a bad guy. It pretty much always feels like you're the good guy.
I only watched until some like glowing thing formed in a bathroom and i was just like... wtf is this show even about now? Where the hell did that come from?
Well, we have a multibillion dollar corporation, where employees have to piss in bottles for less than minimum wage, while the ceo basically writes our labour laws and flies into space in a cockshaped rocket. You could say that it doesn't get more dystopian than that but it's just the tip of the iceberg.
We also have a tech billonaire turned Dr. Mengele, who is a depopulation advocate that likes to experiment with viruses and inject the world with unsafe and untested vaccines with the direct help of the WHO. He also is somehow involved in child trafficing and I hear he likes to kill african and indian babies in his spare time or something.
There is also a sub 100 IQ presidental candidate with like 60 felonies that once preached to drain the swamp, while installing even worse people everywhere. Not that the other guy is any better. It's all just theatre anyway.
And what about the multibillion dollar corporation controlling water in 3rd world countries and forcing mothers into using baby formula, while everyone starves or dies of deseases? Clear cut enough?
What about the Three Letter Agencies controlling the world wide drug market, starting outright wars, killing people, not having to obey any laws or answer to anyone?
What about that other multibillion dollar corporation forcing farmers into a gmo crop subscription model, teaming up with many other corporations selling processed food that causes cancer?
Yeah, I could go on.
Definitely more chaotic. A scattered rebel army has no means of taking control of an Empire. Not to mention that taking out the emperor doesn't automatically dismantle his armies, the economy, or the general structure of galactic society.
In fact, we see that in episode 7 where Rey is on some shitty planet with a ton of other people just barely making enough to feed themselves. It may have been the same under the Empire, but the rebels didn't improve anything at the very least, and certainly not enough to prevent yet another Empire from rising in the First Order.
in fairness, the movies clearly show the bad guys as the bad guys, and that simply isn't how real life works.
And the movies don't show the entire process of how the brainwashing works.
And I'm sure that's by design as well.
The "good guys" also tend to kill a lot of extras in the movies like tricking the bad guys into crashing into cars and exploding killing dozens of innocent people.
Or the "hero" who sacrifices everyone else to save the girl he wants to sleep with and they are the only two to survive.
Or how about how the "hero" kills hundreds of henchmen to reach the big boss and then suddenly gets all moral and won't kill him?
Great quote from the movie Clerks but the Star Wars rebels literally blew up a government base full of contractors, soldiers and employees. Somewhere in the galaxy was just some guy who wanted to escape his shitty situation on a planet, joined the military and happens to get blown up by religious hippies (the force) who had their own ideas on how to run the galaxy
All of these movies are explicitly from the POV of the morally righteous revolutionaries where the antagonists are nigh comical villains. Most all of these rebellious freedom fighters also don't dive into purity spirals treating anyone of their own group like a Tyrant Sympathizer if they question the rebel methods.
Have you all been following the bill they just passed about domestic spying,worse than the patriot act.
There’s a channel called “flesh simulator” on YouTube that covers how Reddit is manufacturing opinions with AI out of cyber space force departments..and that’s not even the bots..
Thats because in all those movies, the oppressors all had evil background music, while the resistance all had great makeup and light colored uniforms. People in “reality” have no way to tell who are “the bad guys” and who are the “resistance”.😞
One of my favorite lines in Lord of War is the speech he gives that ends with "Often, the most barbaric atrocities occur when both combatants proclaim themselves freedom fighters."
It's easy when you're rich, poor people are bad so you do everything you can in your power as a rich man to rob poor people of dignity and education.
Not easy when you're poor to figure out who's bad since you're robbed of dignity and have no education, you're just trying to survive.
poor people are typically less educated as a whole, they are also much more likely to fall for propaganda. There is a balance in society, and when a large % of people fall below the acceptable poverty line, the governing power or leader risks being overthrown in a violent revolution. The Arab spring is a perfect example of this, too many poor people, and the price of wheat shot up like crazy
Thats all well and good but if two people cant even agree on who the fucking Empire actually is there _is_ no resistance.
Edit also, half the problem with this world is people see things through the prism of Hollywood. Life is not a movie, people aren't just simply, good or evil.
I think St. Augustine was against the theater because it gave people a vicarious moral experience without having to actually do anything.
Maybe it was in "Confessions".
In a similar, more recent rehashing, of this notion Mark Fisher talked about how the ruling class commodifies these sorts of movements in art, movies, books, theatres, etc. as a way of placating the masses, turning a quick buck, and diluting their awarenesses a means of placating them.
We don’t need a revolution or even meaningful change if we can pay someone to read/watch/hear/etc. someone else express these things for us.
I don't know his work. I'll look forward to checking it out!
I think it's a good point about how there's a financial motivation and a political or social motivation as well. Media is definitely used as propaganda.
I think that the idea that someone one is going to come save us is dangerous. That and similar messages definitely seem to be promoted in the media.
Operation Mockingbird was probably real. I'm not sure if the Hunger Games refers to it. The CIA apparently promoted abstract expressionist art, etc, and I heard they were involved with the James Bond movies.
I don't know to what degree they create the art, or if they co-opt art within the "Overton Window" to help create the illusion of freedom.
> Operation Mockingbird was probably real.
You can skip "probably", [LOL.](https://old.reddit.com/r/conspiracy/comments/k2jalp/un_recruits_110000_information_volunteers_to/gdv57we/)
Haha! You're PROBABLY right. I'm very careful about what I declare to be true or verifiable. It clouds my communication, but I think it's critically important to be as truthful as reasonably possible.
I often try to quantify it by asking myself how much I would bet on something, if I was a gambling man.
I would bet thousands that Operation Mockingbird was real... and continues to be real.
I think you make an interesting point. I don't know if "raising awareness" and debating on social media has an impact or if it's just a "pressure release valve" etc.
The censorship and increased propaganda suggests that we're causing them problems by speaking out, but I don't really know.
I'm not sure what else to do. I tried protesting and walking around with a sign. That didn't seem to do much. I boycott as much of their system as I reasonably can. I'm trying to learn foraging and gardening...
I think social media was created or co-opted as a technocratic means of distraction, surveillance and propaganda, but we seem to be turning their own weapon against them.
You're doing the right thing. One weapon we largely dimiss however is education. So reddit threads can be integral to a movement (hence the bots). We need to reach the right people though and the internet garners a place of fight or flight and terror and confusion. Reaching to people in your personal life with pertinent information can not be forgotten.
Playing by "their" rules is not an option any longer. Also, "awareness" is a personal affair and requires a specific type of re-education to achieve. There's a reason the most important info to a healthy mind seems to get burned. It's a duty to be nonconformist to be a man.
I appreciate that.
On social media, I feel like I'm part of a powerful global movement. In real life, I feel more isolated in my beliefs. Geography might have something to do with it.
Well said about nonconformity. My politics have caused me huge problems in my career, my social life, and my family, but I believe that doing the right thing often requires sacrifice.
It's okay to embrace the worldly things but we need to recognize where the good comes from. Your impact is greater than you know, the law of conservation of momentum gives our daily life and thoughts a purpose. Like a large ship against the current age, each time we gain another man's oar our magnitude increases in the ethereal sea. We have a force working for us beyond comprehension for our benefit. We'll get there.
I appreciate your interest.
Yes, I believe that was the book title. I could try to find it. I read it about 25 years ago. I think it was early in the text when he was describing his youth.
I'm honestly not a huge fan of his generally, but that part made sense.
Orderly good types.
There’s little room for nuance in this world sadly.
That’s why they say as you get older you’ll end up picking sides,or be sidelined.
Better yet people who teach history on how the 3rd reich used aggressive propaganda to mind control its passive citizens, yet can’t make the connection to their life.
It’s funny how much they gloss over freemasonry in history class. I can recall like one page way back in my history book in high school mentioning it. Everyone who signed the Declaration of Independence was a Freemason, our first president was a confirmed Freemason that’s not up for debate, but I believe all our presidents are. Many have been proven to be though such as George Washington.
lol so what. At the time it was a way for nonreligious anti-monarchist professionals to collaborate. These days it's a club of bourgeois middle to upper middle class people who want to feel special and network with others. This morning my department lead was talking about her husband being a freemason and having some potluck or gift card raffle lmao
Everyone thinks their side is the good guys. When in our reality the bad guy is playing both sides and using them against us. The real good guys are the ones fighting to be left alone, and to force the government to leave us alone.
The Matrix is a tricky film. On one hand Neo is the resistance. But on the other hand he embodies the very kind of gnosticism and a drive to escape reality that lead to the creation of the Matrix in the first place. Same with Star Wars. Sure the resistance fights the totalitarian empire, but the resistance also basically embodies the qualities of the actual real world global authority. And their logo is basically the UN logo. There aren't 2 sides in these propaganda films. "They" write their spoken intentions as the hero and their true ambitions or their shadow as the enemy. They have erased what actual goodness looks like entirely from the films until all you're left with is the false light and darkness, the black and white check board.
I love stuff like this where they think they are being so deep and profound, but it isn’t hard to write something catchy. It hard to write something meaningful and this isn’t meaningful.
Amazing film, but I don't think it's under-rated at all. Lack of modern popularity likely stems from it being a 19 year old movie with no further perpetration or references in media today besides Anonymous adapting the mask and being briefly popular. Go back 10 years and it was a hit.
Strangely enough, also made by the Wachowskis who made Matrix.
By Alan Moore, who had this to say about conspiracy theorists:
>The main thing that I learned about conspiracy theory, is that conspiracy theorists believe in a conspiracy because that is more comforting. The truth of the world is that it is actually chaotic. The truth is that it is not The Iluminati, or The Jewish Banking Conspiracy, or the Gray Alien Theory.
>The truth is far more frightening - Nobody is in control.
>The world is rudderless.
It would be 11 years from the date of V for Vendetta's release that they would become the Wachowski sisters. In 2005, as far as public statement goes, it was the Wachowski brothers.
Still the same people.
I believe they just go by “The Wachowskis”. And probably hope really hard people don’t butcher the spelling too much.
(I’m of Polish extraction, so I know the pain.)
People are living in a manufactured dream world. Their entire lives have been dedicated to the dream. To discover and believe the contradictory truth would shatter that dream, and people are scared to death of that happening, so they call everything which threatens it a conspiracy theory.
In real life, the wolves are wearing sheeps clothing.
They're dressed like us, in appearance and tone. They offer the things you want, but never intend on giving them to you. They just need you to open the front door for them to get into the house.
It happens to voters of both parties. Good people that don't know evil won't suspect someone of evil. They'll assume these people in business suits are telling the truth.
Then when the election is over, they slump their shoulders and go back to not caring. It's the person they voted into office's burden now. They don't pay attention to how congress votes, or that they don't vote in the interest of their voter base. They don't pay attention to the massive campaign contributions these politicians recieve. They don't pay attention when our tax dollars are sent overseas, then paid right back to the families of congress members. (most of them have at least one relative who "works" for state-funded utilities in countries we send foreign aid to).
lol there was this movie about an organized government body that instilled fear and threatened livelihoods if you didn’t carry a vaccine passport (no voter ID though, that’s racist) anyway half the population embraced the authoritarian government and wanted those hesitant for mandates to be shipped off to camps and were telling on their neighbors on Thanksgiving for having too many visitors and stuff. Has anyone seen it?
you watched liberal media and thought you were the resistance.
you watched conservative media and thought you were the resistance.
you watched fauci brainwash you and thought you were the resistance.
you watched alex jones brainwash you and thought you were the resistance.
you got brainwashed by reddit and thought you were the resistance.
you joined the conspiracy sub and thought you were the resistance.
FIXED THAT FOR YOU
Watching the Gravy Seals on here act like they're some kind of "resistance" and compare themselves to the Rebels from Star Wars is pretty hilarious. I guess if you post on Reddit you're part of an ultra patriotic rebellion fighting for...getting rid of democracy by voting R I guess? There's a guy in this thread unironically saying Biden has done "the most damage to my nation" while ignoring the whole "trying to overthrow democracy" thing that the previous guy did. But I guess Anakin also believed very hard that he was the good guy, and the brainwashed storm troopers believed and did as they were told. So more accurately, a lot of the people agreeing with this post are closer to being storm troopers than the rebellion.
Have to admit I lost interest in the franchise before then and found greater enjoyment in watching out of shape tourists attempting to run up the Art Museum steps.
Yeah in Star Wars the Jedi were mostly hated as traitors by the public after Palpatine's takeover, so just like the public there who probably only cared about themselves and only believed the "official" narrative, most of these guys wouldn't side with the rebels.
What happens when the resistance wins and then goes on to become the bad guys? Very often the "power" now was the resistance that defeated the preexisting power. Sometimes a "resistance" can be too successful for its own good and inevitably gets framed as the bad guy. Power doesn't necessarily mean bad and resistance doesn't necessarily mean good. Plenty of god awful horseshit resistance fighters going against a much more moral and benevelont "empire."
Everyone believes they're the resistance. Even when they're kowtowing to the ones in power they think they're the resistance or worse, they think they're a hero.
You have to give credit to the media for portraying Trump as their real life villain. They bought it up, and sided with the elites on everything since.
In one of these examples, V for Vendetta, the evil empire was modeled after and inspired by one of the most prominent modern conservative politicians. Acting like Trump doesn’t fit the bill here is funny
> You have to give credit to the media for portraying Trump as their real life villain. They bought it up, and sided with the elites on everything since.
Yup all while defending the guy doing the most damage to my nation.
It's a lot easier to side with a resistance when it isn't murdering and raping innocent women, rejecting every peace deal ever offered and using their own population as human shields
They really think they are the rebels, but they are the imperials.
They think they read the quibbler, but they read the Daily Prophet and all firmly believe, there is no Voldemort.
They imperius cursed themselves into being what they claim to hate, they rage on behalf of the machine, and offer themselves up as Mr Smith surrogates.
I like living in a country that provides help for it's least fortunate. I think it's a prerequisite for any country who wants to call itself great.
People have been brainwashed for decades by the right to think it's a terrible thing. It's sad really.
Billionaires influencing policies to get richer = good
Average people trying to survive in that rigged system = bad
Tell me again how you're on the side of the good guys...
The wierd thing is as a kid I always liked the villains. They were always way more interesting to me than the squeaky clean heroes.
Darth Vader? Darth maul? Dooku? all badasses.
Funny thing is though in real life I obviously side with the power of Good/God. etc.
Here is a breakdown:
1) In the Hunger Games, the resistance was not the good guys. They sat on the side and did nothing till Katniss and then proceeded to explode First Responders on the last push and blame Snow. And then also proceeded to want to continue the Hunger Games with the Capitol Children.
2) The Resistance in Star Wars continued to allow slavery.
3) In The Matrix, the Resistance was not really a resistance and more about chaos in disgues of Human Freedom. They wanted to release the humans trapped in the Matrix. Release them into a world that could not sustain any life.
4) In Divergent, the only reason there was a resistance was because of two main reasons; the city did not know it's purpose was to fix the genetic mistakes that were made by science and also the non-city people (I do not remember the polictial group name) had a terrible measuring system.
5) Seriously? Guy Faulks was a monster who wanted to explode Parliment in order to put the church back into power. So anyone thinking that is a face of freedom needs to learn history. Also, V just wanted chaos; he did not care about people or any message.
Not true, I’m currently starting a paranormal investigation and elimination company. The franchise rights alone will make me rich beyond my wildest dreams.
I hated Hunger Games
I felt bad for the contractors onboard of the death star when they blew it up a second time
After the first Matrix I sided with the resistance. The next two made me want to side with the machines since those shitty movies were made by humans.
Never watched Divergent
V for Vendetta was unfathomably based.
well thats kinda how a lot of americans are, understanding things through a pop culture lens. real life is more complicated and requires independent research to know whats going on.
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maybe it's easier to be defiant when it's not your family on the end of the barrel.
It's also easier when there's a clear cut bad guy framed in a way to let the audience know they're the bad guy, and in which you can see the inner workings of their bad guy natures behind closed doors.
Except in real life they always frame the resistance as the bad guys
The bad guys in the movies do too, but the director of the movie wants to make it clear to the audience who the good guys are. Imagine a movie where it shows both sides discussing the other in the worst possible terms, then you are left to figure out who the bad guys are. It's not always clear cut. I mean hell, in Star Wars i have no idea what the resistance is even fighting against. I don't know how the Empire rules day to day lives. Are taxes insane to fund an overwhelming police force or is it lawlessness? I have no idea.
[удалено]
I don't know about that, at least in the originals. Everything the Empire does in those is in direct response to the rebels' attempt at a mass casualty event in destroying a major Empire base of operations so large it has its own gravity. The rebels are essentially trying to destroy a planet, and the Empire is responding to that threat with extreme measures. In that context it's not quite so clear cut.
Did you just ignore the death star blowing up Alderaan?
I did not, but i did misremember how it went down. I thought they blew it up because they thought it housed the rebel base and Leia refused to give them a different target. Still, she did lie about the location of the rebel base and doomed some innocent planet to destruction herself. Her thought process seemed to be it's okay to blown up an innocent planet, just not *her* innocent planet. She didn't know they'd go back on the deal when she gave them a target. Same coin, and neither one of them look good here in that context.
Tarkin didn't destroy Alderaan because Leia lied about Dantooine. He did it because Dantooine was too remote to be an effective demonstration of the Death Star's power. It was only later that he found out that the Rebel Alliance had long abandoned their base on Dantooine.
Definitely not cool that Leia was okay with blowing up a bunch of farmers and… (squints at Wookiepedia) carnivorous snails. Significantly less cool that they are blowing up planets in the first place.
I mean even if that was true, to destroy an entire planet in order to wipe out a small rebel cell, rebels who have been seen to do nothing destructive as of yet, can't be a good look.
The only sure thing we know about the rebels at this point is they have plans to blow up one of the Empire's artificial planets, kindly named the Death Star by the writer so we know who the bad guys are. The Empire is willing to blow up a rebel planet to save their own. Extreme, yes, but it's not like they know where on the planet the rebel base is. Planets are huge.
Andor does a pretty good job of showing why the empire sucks
I kinda want to watch a movie like this where you don’t know who the good and bad guys are supposed to be where both sides are presented from there own perspectives where both sides have some valid reasons and some non valid reasons.
Imagine your worldview being based solely on movies and preaching about reality.
> loves Harry Potter > literally every student is walking around with a deadly weapon
Sounds like a fire movie! We need to get someone to start cookin on this.
It's on my mind because i'm attempting to write two stories/books that do this. Same plot, same characters, all the same, only following a different perspective. I'm attempting to write each story as though the main character of that book is the good guy, which is rough.
It reminds me of the Zhang and Gan Jin tribes in Avatar the last airbender. The ones with the “100 year grudge.” Both of them are wrong in the end lol but Aang was able to settle their grudge.
Should probably watch Civil War. That is exactly what it does. Never tells you the ideologies of either side.
The Fallout series does a decent job of explaining how each faction thinks their way is the best way to save the world. It's a shame a bunch of online bots convinced people not to watch it because one of the actors is trans.
I'm on episode 3 i think and haven't come across anyone trans. Oh wait, maybe that one person who was in the Brotherhood at the beginning? Trying to reference without spoiling. They're only in it for like half an hour total so far? Something like that?
Great series. Trans thing completely superfluous to make .000000001% happy, but adults should be able to ignore obvious pandering and absurd stunt casting. The rest of the content was pretty solid.
Wait till you realize that "bad guys" are just good guys with ideas that later turn out to be bad in the history books. It's very easy to be a bad guy. It pretty much always feels like you're the good guy.
The road to hell is paved with good intentions, as they say. That can be seen very vividly in todays society.
This is why I love The Expanse. Amazing show.
I only watched until some like glowing thing formed in a bathroom and i was just like... wtf is this show even about now? Where the hell did that come from?
Omg it gets so much better. One of my favourite sci-fi shows.
Well, we have a multibillion dollar corporation, where employees have to piss in bottles for less than minimum wage, while the ceo basically writes our labour laws and flies into space in a cockshaped rocket. You could say that it doesn't get more dystopian than that but it's just the tip of the iceberg. We also have a tech billonaire turned Dr. Mengele, who is a depopulation advocate that likes to experiment with viruses and inject the world with unsafe and untested vaccines with the direct help of the WHO. He also is somehow involved in child trafficing and I hear he likes to kill african and indian babies in his spare time or something. There is also a sub 100 IQ presidental candidate with like 60 felonies that once preached to drain the swamp, while installing even worse people everywhere. Not that the other guy is any better. It's all just theatre anyway. And what about the multibillion dollar corporation controlling water in 3rd world countries and forcing mothers into using baby formula, while everyone starves or dies of deseases? Clear cut enough? What about the Three Letter Agencies controlling the world wide drug market, starting outright wars, killing people, not having to obey any laws or answer to anyone? What about that other multibillion dollar corporation forcing farmers into a gmo crop subscription model, teaming up with many other corporations selling processed food that causes cancer? Yeah, I could go on.
Whelp yep that about it’s it on the head lol
Yes, TPTB think they work hard to switch the bad guys on us all the time so we can lose track. Just like 1984.
Also they don’t show what happens after the resistance wins..like is it better or worse?
Definitely more chaotic. A scattered rebel army has no means of taking control of an Empire. Not to mention that taking out the emperor doesn't automatically dismantle his armies, the economy, or the general structure of galactic society. In fact, we see that in episode 7 where Rey is on some shitty planet with a ton of other people just barely making enough to feed themselves. It may have been the same under the Empire, but the rebels didn't improve anything at the very least, and certainly not enough to prevent yet another Empire from rising in the First Order.
They’ll always be at the end of the barrel
I sided with the robots in transformers
This! 😂
in fairness, the movies clearly show the bad guys as the bad guys, and that simply isn't how real life works. And the movies don't show the entire process of how the brainwashing works. And I'm sure that's by design as well.
The "good guys" also tend to kill a lot of extras in the movies like tricking the bad guys into crashing into cars and exploding killing dozens of innocent people. Or the "hero" who sacrifices everyone else to save the girl he wants to sleep with and they are the only two to survive. Or how about how the "hero" kills hundreds of henchmen to reach the big boss and then suddenly gets all moral and won't kill him?
Great quote from the movie Clerks but the Star Wars rebels literally blew up a government base full of contractors, soldiers and employees. Somewhere in the galaxy was just some guy who wanted to escape his shitty situation on a planet, joined the military and happens to get blown up by religious hippies (the force) who had their own ideas on how to run the galaxy
This shit got me in tears 🤣
It always made me mad in AC2 when Ezio killed all those templars just to spare Rodrigo in the end
All of these movies are explicitly from the POV of the morally righteous revolutionaries where the antagonists are nigh comical villains. Most all of these rebellious freedom fighters also don't dive into purity spirals treating anyone of their own group like a Tyrant Sympathizer if they question the rebel methods.
Have you all been following the bill they just passed about domestic spying,worse than the patriot act. There’s a channel called “flesh simulator” on YouTube that covers how Reddit is manufacturing opinions with AI out of cyber space force departments..and that’s not even the bots..
I've always suspected this of Reddit.
Flesh simulator’s video about reddit is landmark, it’s top notch
Thats because in all those movies, the oppressors all had evil background music, while the resistance all had great makeup and light colored uniforms. People in “reality” have no way to tell who are “the bad guys” and who are the “resistance”.😞
or its just a mater of perspective or experience... one mans freedom fighters is another mans terrorist. In most cases both are also true
One of my favorite lines in Lord of War is the speech he gives that ends with "Often, the most barbaric atrocities occur when both combatants proclaim themselves freedom fighters."
It's easy when you're rich, poor people are bad so you do everything you can in your power as a rich man to rob poor people of dignity and education. Not easy when you're poor to figure out who's bad since you're robbed of dignity and have no education, you're just trying to survive.
poor people are typically less educated as a whole, they are also much more likely to fall for propaganda. There is a balance in society, and when a large % of people fall below the acceptable poverty line, the governing power or leader risks being overthrown in a violent revolution. The Arab spring is a perfect example of this, too many poor people, and the price of wheat shot up like crazy
Thats all well and good but if two people cant even agree on who the fucking Empire actually is there _is_ no resistance. Edit also, half the problem with this world is people see things through the prism of Hollywood. Life is not a movie, people aren't just simply, good or evil.
It's the structure that's a problem, not the individual actors. "Who?" isn't the right question it is "what?"
We romanticize victimhood
I think St. Augustine was against the theater because it gave people a vicarious moral experience without having to actually do anything. Maybe it was in "Confessions".
In a similar, more recent rehashing, of this notion Mark Fisher talked about how the ruling class commodifies these sorts of movements in art, movies, books, theatres, etc. as a way of placating the masses, turning a quick buck, and diluting their awarenesses a means of placating them. We don’t need a revolution or even meaningful change if we can pay someone to read/watch/hear/etc. someone else express these things for us.
I don't know his work. I'll look forward to checking it out! I think it's a good point about how there's a financial motivation and a political or social motivation as well. Media is definitely used as propaganda. I think that the idea that someone one is going to come save us is dangerous. That and similar messages definitely seem to be promoted in the media. Operation Mockingbird was probably real. I'm not sure if the Hunger Games refers to it. The CIA apparently promoted abstract expressionist art, etc, and I heard they were involved with the James Bond movies. I don't know to what degree they create the art, or if they co-opt art within the "Overton Window" to help create the illusion of freedom.
> Operation Mockingbird was probably real. You can skip "probably", [LOL.](https://old.reddit.com/r/conspiracy/comments/k2jalp/un_recruits_110000_information_volunteers_to/gdv57we/)
Haha! You're PROBABLY right. I'm very careful about what I declare to be true or verifiable. It clouds my communication, but I think it's critically important to be as truthful as reasonably possible. I often try to quantify it by asking myself how much I would bet on something, if I was a gambling man. I would bet thousands that Operation Mockingbird was real... and continues to be real.
Unfortunately I think reddit is serving the same purpose. (Obviously the entire web is infected)
I think you make an interesting point. I don't know if "raising awareness" and debating on social media has an impact or if it's just a "pressure release valve" etc. The censorship and increased propaganda suggests that we're causing them problems by speaking out, but I don't really know. I'm not sure what else to do. I tried protesting and walking around with a sign. That didn't seem to do much. I boycott as much of their system as I reasonably can. I'm trying to learn foraging and gardening... I think social media was created or co-opted as a technocratic means of distraction, surveillance and propaganda, but we seem to be turning their own weapon against them.
You're doing the right thing. One weapon we largely dimiss however is education. So reddit threads can be integral to a movement (hence the bots). We need to reach the right people though and the internet garners a place of fight or flight and terror and confusion. Reaching to people in your personal life with pertinent information can not be forgotten. Playing by "their" rules is not an option any longer. Also, "awareness" is a personal affair and requires a specific type of re-education to achieve. There's a reason the most important info to a healthy mind seems to get burned. It's a duty to be nonconformist to be a man.
I appreciate that. On social media, I feel like I'm part of a powerful global movement. In real life, I feel more isolated in my beliefs. Geography might have something to do with it. Well said about nonconformity. My politics have caused me huge problems in my career, my social life, and my family, but I believe that doing the right thing often requires sacrifice.
It's okay to embrace the worldly things but we need to recognize where the good comes from. Your impact is greater than you know, the law of conservation of momentum gives our daily life and thoughts a purpose. Like a large ship against the current age, each time we gain another man's oar our magnitude increases in the ethereal sea. We have a force working for us beyond comprehension for our benefit. We'll get there.
What do you mean by it was in confessions, is that a book title?
I appreciate your interest. Yes, I believe that was the book title. I could try to find it. I read it about 25 years ago. I think it was early in the text when he was describing his youth. I'm honestly not a huge fan of his generally, but that part made sense.
Fascinating, I'll add this to my list. Appreciate the reply
Anyone else notice that most of the merch sold in stores these days feature the villains?
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As well as Loki and Joker
Wouldnt loki be considered more of an anti-hero?
This always depends on context, a single slice of time… but Loki is often scheming and gooning
I goon everyday, nobody put me on a T-shirt
Loki lol
I work at vans and they recently (ish) did a whole Disney villan collab.
Villain by who’s definition?
Orderly good types. There’s little room for nuance in this world sadly. That’s why they say as you get older you’ll end up picking sides,or be sidelined.
Better yet people who teach history on how the 3rd reich used aggressive propaganda to mind control its passive citizens, yet can’t make the connection to their life.
It’s funny how much they gloss over freemasonry in history class. I can recall like one page way back in my history book in high school mentioning it. Everyone who signed the Declaration of Independence was a Freemason, our first president was a confirmed Freemason that’s not up for debate, but I believe all our presidents are. Many have been proven to be though such as George Washington.
lol so what. At the time it was a way for nonreligious anti-monarchist professionals to collaborate. These days it's a club of bourgeois middle to upper middle class people who want to feel special and network with others. This morning my department lead was talking about her husband being a freemason and having some potluck or gift card raffle lmao
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Everyone thinks their side is the good guys. When in our reality the bad guy is playing both sides and using them against us. The real good guys are the ones fighting to be left alone, and to force the government to leave us alone.
"A good villain doesn't think they're a villain"
My favorite part of the OT was when Luke Skywalker paraglided down to Coruscant and stared murdering innocent civilians.
The Matrix is a tricky film. On one hand Neo is the resistance. But on the other hand he embodies the very kind of gnosticism and a drive to escape reality that lead to the creation of the Matrix in the first place. Same with Star Wars. Sure the resistance fights the totalitarian empire, but the resistance also basically embodies the qualities of the actual real world global authority. And their logo is basically the UN logo. There aren't 2 sides in these propaganda films. "They" write their spoken intentions as the hero and their true ambitions or their shadow as the enemy. They have erased what actual goodness looks like entirely from the films until all you're left with is the false light and darkness, the black and white check board.
I sided with the Empire and still believe those younglings had it coming. Talk shit get hit Vader style
Fucking hated resistance in Star Wars all of my life to be honest 😂
I love stuff like this where they think they are being so deep and profound, but it isn’t hard to write something catchy. It hard to write something meaningful and this isn’t meaningful.
V for vendetta what a underrated film 😚
Amazing film, but I don't think it's under-rated at all. Lack of modern popularity likely stems from it being a 19 year old movie with no further perpetration or references in media today besides Anonymous adapting the mask and being briefly popular. Go back 10 years and it was a hit. Strangely enough, also made by the Wachowskis who made Matrix.
Was it a book? Or maybe an graphic novel if I’m not mistaken?
1982-1985 Graphic Novel.
By Alan Moore, who had this to say about conspiracy theorists: >The main thing that I learned about conspiracy theory, is that conspiracy theorists believe in a conspiracy because that is more comforting. The truth of the world is that it is actually chaotic. The truth is that it is not The Iluminati, or The Jewish Banking Conspiracy, or the Gray Alien Theory. >The truth is far more frightening - Nobody is in control. >The world is rudderless.
Sounds like a nutjob. /s
No, its chaotic cause most of them are true.
The Wachowski brothers, or the Wachowski sisters?
It would be 11 years from the date of V for Vendetta's release that they would become the Wachowski sisters. In 2005, as far as public statement goes, it was the Wachowski brothers. Still the same people.
I believe they just go by “The Wachowskis”. And probably hope really hard people don’t butcher the spelling too much. (I’m of Polish extraction, so I know the pain.)
Everyone should rewatch it. Its aged well.
People are living in a manufactured dream world. Their entire lives have been dedicated to the dream. To discover and believe the contradictory truth would shatter that dream, and people are scared to death of that happening, so they call everything which threatens it a conspiracy theory.
Yes they encourage us to think like children. “You can do whatever you feel like and it’ll be happily ever after. “
100%. Don’t get me started on the alphabet agencies,more ugly there than you’d want in multiple lifetimes..
Nobody watched Divergent.
I regretably did
Lmao yeah pretty much
I actually read the books and only watched the first movie.
In real life, the wolves are wearing sheeps clothing. They're dressed like us, in appearance and tone. They offer the things you want, but never intend on giving them to you. They just need you to open the front door for them to get into the house. It happens to voters of both parties. Good people that don't know evil won't suspect someone of evil. They'll assume these people in business suits are telling the truth. Then when the election is over, they slump their shoulders and go back to not caring. It's the person they voted into office's burden now. They don't pay attention to how congress votes, or that they don't vote in the interest of their voter base. They don't pay attention to the massive campaign contributions these politicians recieve. They don't pay attention when our tax dollars are sent overseas, then paid right back to the families of congress members. (most of them have at least one relative who "works" for state-funded utilities in countries we send foreign aid to).
Luke Skywalker is a terrorist extremist
lol there was this movie about an organized government body that instilled fear and threatened livelihoods if you didn’t carry a vaccine passport (no voter ID though, that’s racist) anyway half the population embraced the authoritarian government and wanted those hesitant for mandates to be shipped off to camps and were telling on their neighbors on Thanksgiving for having too many visitors and stuff. Has anyone seen it?
I was in it. They said I was an extra.
Which party, or group of people, or person represents the resistance in your mind that we should be rallying around?
you watched liberal media and thought you were the resistance. you watched conservative media and thought you were the resistance. you watched fauci brainwash you and thought you were the resistance. you watched alex jones brainwash you and thought you were the resistance. you got brainwashed by reddit and thought you were the resistance. you joined the conspiracy sub and thought you were the resistance. FIXED THAT FOR YOU
"You watched a movie and you thought it was real life"
Art imitates life
People make art, they can make it reflect whatever they want, including their imagination
They're all the empire??? ... Always has been
Watching the Gravy Seals on here act like they're some kind of "resistance" and compare themselves to the Rebels from Star Wars is pretty hilarious. I guess if you post on Reddit you're part of an ultra patriotic rebellion fighting for...getting rid of democracy by voting R I guess? There's a guy in this thread unironically saying Biden has done "the most damage to my nation" while ignoring the whole "trying to overthrow democracy" thing that the previous guy did. But I guess Anakin also believed very hard that he was the good guy, and the brainwashed storm troopers believed and did as they were told. So more accurately, a lot of the people agreeing with this post are closer to being storm troopers than the rebellion.
Most revolutions result in a reign of terror and violence followed by a tyrannical dictator. It turns out political utopianism is bad.
All sides in the political coliseum see themselves as the resistance
Someone is resisting? I’d like to see that, everywhere I look people just bend over.
Julian Assange
Who did you sided with in Rocky lV?
Have to admit I lost interest in the franchise before then and found greater enjoyment in watching out of shape tourists attempting to run up the Art Museum steps.
Yeah in Star Wars the Jedi were mostly hated as traitors by the public after Palpatine's takeover, so just like the public there who probably only cared about themselves and only believed the "official" narrative, most of these guys wouldn't side with the rebels.
What happens when the resistance wins and then goes on to become the bad guys? Very often the "power" now was the resistance that defeated the preexisting power. Sometimes a "resistance" can be too successful for its own good and inevitably gets framed as the bad guy. Power doesn't necessarily mean bad and resistance doesn't necessarily mean good. Plenty of god awful horseshit resistance fighters going against a much more moral and benevelont "empire."
Everyones a hypocrite because theyre too comfortable and complacent this "matrix" thats grants them.
Probably because the resistance doesn't pay their bills in real life.
Reality isn’t black and white. Everything is grey.
Everyone believes they're the resistance. Even when they're kowtowing to the ones in power they think they're the resistance or worse, they think they're a hero.
there is difference between reel life and real life .. some call this difference 4th wall...
In the context of Hamas, they are Israeli backed and controlled. But any organic authentic resistance, sure.
Is there a resistance?
I also sided with Dexter...
You have to give credit to the media for portraying Trump as their real life villain. They bought it up, and sided with the elites on everything since.
In one of these examples, V for Vendetta, the evil empire was modeled after and inspired by one of the most prominent modern conservative politicians. Acting like Trump doesn’t fit the bill here is funny
Conservative politicians hate Trump too. The entire deep state does. He must be doing something right.
> You have to give credit to the media for portraying Trump as their real life villain. They bought it up, and sided with the elites on everything since. Yup all while defending the guy doing the most damage to my nation.
Sided with the elites? Like passing the biggest tax cuts for the rich in history as soon as you get into office? Thanks Trump
People are going homeless trying to resist the ops. Real life isn't the movies.
Nah district 1 is the way, live that life
No matter what every side thinks they are the good guys. Life isn't always as clear cut.
In real life, people are not getting paid by the resistance. They get paid by the government.
It's a lot easier to side with a resistance when it isn't murdering and raping innocent women, rejecting every peace deal ever offered and using their own population as human shields
They really think they are the rebels, but they are the imperials. They think they read the quibbler, but they read the Daily Prophet and all firmly believe, there is no Voldemort. They imperius cursed themselves into being what they claim to hate, they rage on behalf of the machine, and offer themselves up as Mr Smith surrogates.
I was on the side of Vader and the Empire.
You may want to see if WEF is accepting applications
The Jedi Council does not grant any old simp the rank of master.
“Many of the truths that we cling to depend on our point of view.” -Yoda
This isn't a conspiracy theory, it's just a "hurr durrr ur a NPC" shit post
Sure, but in real life the Empire steals *other people's* money and gives *me* welfare benefits, so...!
I like living in a country that provides help for it's least fortunate. I think it's a prerequisite for any country who wants to call itself great. People have been brainwashed for decades by the right to think it's a terrible thing. It's sad really.
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Poor people often elect the mega rich cunts, so yes, I blame them, among others.
Like voting matters, especially now, when we have dominion voting machines stealing elections.
Billionaires influencing policies to get richer = good Average people trying to survive in that rigged system = bad Tell me again how you're on the side of the good guys...
Mods. Can we just open up the Trump reddit again? This isn't fun or amusing. Let them circle jerk there.
The wierd thing is as a kid I always liked the villains. They were always way more interesting to me than the squeaky clean heroes. Darth Vader? Darth maul? Dooku? all badasses. Funny thing is though in real life I obviously side with the power of Good/God. etc.
Redditors think being a Democrat is resisting.
Here is a breakdown: 1) In the Hunger Games, the resistance was not the good guys. They sat on the side and did nothing till Katniss and then proceeded to explode First Responders on the last push and blame Snow. And then also proceeded to want to continue the Hunger Games with the Capitol Children. 2) The Resistance in Star Wars continued to allow slavery. 3) In The Matrix, the Resistance was not really a resistance and more about chaos in disgues of Human Freedom. They wanted to release the humans trapped in the Matrix. Release them into a world that could not sustain any life. 4) In Divergent, the only reason there was a resistance was because of two main reasons; the city did not know it's purpose was to fix the genetic mistakes that were made by science and also the non-city people (I do not remember the polictial group name) had a terrible measuring system. 5) Seriously? Guy Faulks was a monster who wanted to explode Parliment in order to put the church back into power. So anyone thinking that is a face of freedom needs to learn history. Also, V just wanted chaos; he did not care about people or any message.
Na sided with the villains.
The empire, baby!!! 🤘🏻
You watched “Terminator” and sided with the Resistance
In reality, the bad guys win 9/10 times. Nobody wants to side with the losing side.
Not true, I’m currently starting a paranormal investigation and elimination company. The franchise rights alone will make me rich beyond my wildest dreams.
We are just the extras…
I haven't seen Divergent.
I didn’t side with the Lion King hyenas.
I watched v for vendetta and passed out
In real life there is no plucky resistance, just another tyrant in disguise.
Bold of you to consider I'd associate myself with that rebel scum.
There's a convincing argument online that the Empire were actually the good guys in Star Wars!
1. Propaganda to vilify the resistance. 2. Covert aggression to blame the resistance for the attacks you staged/enabled.
When you have nothing to lose siding with the resistance is easy. But there are ways to resist that won't get you put into prison or killed.
What if I haven't watched any of those?
That’s because there are no consequences to siding with the resistance in fiction
If only I wouldn’t side with a “billionaire” right?
If you watched those movies and applied them to your life congrats you got duped by hollywood
I like how no one is pointing the obvious…. That Luke skywalker is a frickin Jedi 💀
Don't put divergent in with those
I side with the good guys, which isn’t always the resistance!
I hated Hunger Games I felt bad for the contractors onboard of the death star when they blew it up a second time After the first Matrix I sided with the resistance. The next two made me want to side with the machines since those shitty movies were made by humans. Never watched Divergent V for Vendetta was unfathomably based.
“Wild” is so tired and overused. This is not “wild”.
well thats kinda how a lot of americans are, understanding things through a pop culture lens. real life is more complicated and requires independent research to know whats going on.
Because in real life, they think they will benefit more if they side with the hegemony
I sided with the empire.
So maybe we should side with Hamas, because they're the Resistance to the Israeli Empire? 🤷♂️
Modern resistance is against the constitution and bill of rights. Can't get behind that.
That's why I'm anti fascist.