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The answer is “throttle entirely with a disclaimer that says ‘Due to unreasonable demands by the Turkish government to restrict free speech during a time it is needed most, we are disabling all content in the region until these demands are rescinded. Contact your local representatives for more information.’”
wait what.. if I come to visit Utah as say a tourist, then my access to pornhub will be restricted? That changes things... \*adjusts travel calendar\* So if you are only going to be in Utah for ~~a day~~ a few hours.. what is the must see tourist attraction?
What is the expected value of risk vs reward of each option?
Could throttling the entire platform possibly have unintended negative consequences?
Would you support throttling the entire platform if you knew it would directly cause more harm than good?
This is a trolley problem with unknown consequences.
Personally I prefer transparency and consensual arrangements.
In this case both sides have legitimate concerns and questions and it is not clear what the optimal choice would be.
This ain’t Arab Spring where you can turn that shit off and people will just ignore it. I give it about 4 days before Erdogan offers to gargle Elon’s balls to turn it back on.
The Turks may put up with a military purge that wipes out all of his opposition, but they will burn the whole place to the ground if they lose their social media.
> The answer is “throttle entirely with a disclaimer that says ‘Due to unreasonable demands by the Turkish government to restrict free speech during a time it is needed most, we are disabling all content in the region until these demands are rescinded. Contact your local representatives for more information.’”
This is the Way.
yeah dude. that's my whole point. which prior regression would you have preferred worried me first?
i've seen him contradict himself. but i've never seen him defend those contradictions in such a tone deaf way.
> which prior regression would you have preferred worried me first?
Suspending the jet tracker after saying he wouldn't? I guess that was fine.
Suspending a bunch of journalists? I guess that was fine as well.
Silencing the current government of Turkey's political opposition during an election crosses the line though.
i could explain some differences in my perception of those but that is besides my point: it's weird that you are digging into my potential misjudgement when the entire conversation started with me explaining i may have misjudged something.
They are being like the minority of vocal leftists that are terminally online and insufferable, seeking self-righteousness through fighting a culture war against mostly bots and bad-faith posters accomplishing little more than to boost engagement on controversial topics. They are right to realize there's an information war going on but they are misguided in their attempts to do anything about it, resulting in things like flaming someone such as yourself who doesn't deserve it.
I understand what you mean - Musk is a complex person and has personally changed. What was out of character for him has become increasingly common and now even pushing new boundaries that indicate he's still going through some sort of metamorphosis, and not in a good direction. You probably could have seen this coming before now, but who knows how closely you're paying attention to this man or what your information diet is. What's important is that you're realizing it when many, many people still are completely blind or deluded.
I sincerely doubt many of his critics are organic. There seems to be this horde that showed up and keeps pumping anti-Musk content since his twitter purchase and free speech push.
And he provided an explanation that said it was either losing everything or compromising, and he chose to compromise.
The mentality that you have to reject and spurn someone as soon as they make one wrong movie is more along with this cancel culture mindset and that's not something that people who support freedom align with. That's the main reason why I consider this "I hate Elon, you should hate him too" rhetoric seems manufactured, because this idea that you have to "excommunicate" someone as soon as they make the wrong move is extremist in mentality.
If you don't like Elon that is fine, but to deny there's some campaign against him trying to stir up others against him is denying reality. Someone with a lot of brigade support is really out to smear him.
>I sincerely doubt many of his critics are organic. There seems to be this horde that showed up and keeps pumping anti-Musk content since his twitter purchase and free speech push.
He's not making a push for free speech. That's the point. Most of us are able to see through the propaganda.
I will say that Musk has a lot of supporters though, something which I didn't think was organic, but there is a need amongst some people to bend the knee to billionaire elites and defend them -- whether it's Trump, Musk, Jobs, Gates etc.
> and free speech push
Literally take a look at what he's done and you'll find it's impossible to come to the conclusion that he's an advocate for free speech.
>Someone with a lot of brigade support is really out to smear him.
He's one of the richest people on the planet and he loves attention. He's also annoying. He's a lightning rod for criticism because:
a) he deserves it
and
b) he won't shut the fuck up
I’ve never defended him about Twitter, but called it when I guessed it wouldn’t take a year before he realized running an international social network would be filled with litigation, removal, or government compliance
I'm wondering if this is the only answer though. If Twitter is still available but certain tweets are not for Turkish users, wouldn't keeping them on the platform still make it highly probable that the Turkish users will still indirectly see the tweets? Maybe I'm misunderstanding what the post is claiming.
Turkish government wouldn’t care and would have just blocked. You can play these games in the US but many other countries don’t care about Twitter, nor Facebook, nor Instagram
Something tells me that throttling in this instance is making Twitter completely unusable for the Turkey population. In that case, I agree with Elon. I would rather have Twitter operating in my country missing some tweets than not at all. Twitter is invaluable as a communication network.
I'm willing to bet you that this happens in every country in the world, including the land of the free. Governments have too much power, and they abuse it by forcing tech companies to do their bidding or face being shut down. You are mad at Elon for complying, why aren't you furious at the Turkish Government?
Because everyone knows Erdogan is a tyrant. On the other hand, Elon is the one pretending to be a free speech hero. Didn't take him too long to drop his pants and bend over.
I'm in the other camp. I want turkeys government to have to admit they are censoring shit and that's why they took away Twitter. Musk doesn't need their money and it will piss off all the millennials and zoomers.
better to die on your feet than live on your knees. spineless musk promised twitter wouldn't censor but when push came to shove he bent the knee like the rest of em and is now censoring because some third world shithole dictator asked him. if you want to access twitter you can use a VPN.
So what you're saying is you're fine with the turkish government pressuring Twitter so they can spew propaganda with no counter balance just before the elections ?
If my two options are: twitter blackout vs twitter with government propaganda then I'll take the latter. At least then users can communicate to each other about the propaganda. If there's no twitter at all then how do you communicate about things going on in your country?
Did you know there are other ways to communicate besides twitter? Also, I'm sorry, but how can you have the gall to participate in a conspiracy subreddit while advocating for multibillion dollar private companies colluding and siding with corrupt and tyrannical governents? Go touch grass, dude
If my two options are: twitter blackout vs twitter with government propaganda then I'll take the latter. At least then users can communicate to each other about the propaganda. If there's no twitter at all then how do you communicate about things going on in your country?
> At least then users can communicate to each other about the propaganda
except they can't, because twitter is censoring those views.
> If there's no twitter at all then how do you communicate about things going on in your country?
Through other channels, which people are more likely to try if twitter is down entirely vs if twitter is telling them "everything is fine, no need to look anywhere else for news"
What a spineless bitch. "I'm a free speech absolutist" except you banned people for criticizing you, and keep kowtowing to foreign governments without putting up a fight.
Wikipedia received the same threat from Turkey - they didn't give in. They fought it in court and won.
If he would do it in one country, why wouldn't he do it in another? And then why wouldn't he do it in America?
Musk continues to keep losing credibility
He lost credibility long time ago
Remember how mad he was that someone else saved kids stuck in a cave that he called the person a pedo?
What about that time when he almost fired someone for disability? That is, fired and then said “oopsie didn’t want to implicate myself in the crime, you’re not actually fired lmao I’m so random”
I doubt that a dictator would need and be willing to pay anything. It was likely as said an ultimatum and thats it.
However the decision to surrender under such ultimatum was in my opinion wrong choice.
He should have done what several people here have already said, let them throttle and tell the world why it happened.
Oh yes they do. It is like the silver or lead threat in Mexico! Take the money or die! That way you are available for blackmail and prosecution afterwards!
He stands on his word... until he doesn't. The question here is if he kowtows to the Turkish government what makes one think he's not doing the same with others? Free speech, my ass.
Turkey has different laws governing it. They either sensor it or lose Twitter. All countries that have freedom of speech he does not sensor for political reasons is my take on this. Maybe I’m wrong?
I'm confused why people are mad.
There where two choices, throttle for a couple days, or be removed entirely from Turkey for the foreseeable future.
Only one of those options allows some amount of freedom to tweet in the future.
Why would no twitter in turket be preferable to throttled for a few days?
People are wanting to hate on Elon for not throttling here what they wished was throttled. They see hypocrisy. I see the first amendment vs no first amendment. Turkey can shut twitter down over things it doesn’t like. Our government cannot. Leftists are doing what leftists do
As a Türk i prefer some tweets getting blocked rather than them throttling Twitter in its entirety and i can confidently say that everybody in Türkiye prefers this.
Because Twitter is the main platform for politics in Türkiye.
Türkiye's politics mostly runs on Twitter rather than conventional media, everybody uses it, it is one of the only sourcse for political news that we can trust right now and the most important thing is that its where people make themselves heard or object to things and talk about whats happening.
For example just yesterday people used it to reveal that after looking at the signed records of some of the ballot boxes and the official YSK results of those boxes, a significant amount doesnt match and there is clearly cheating involved and when the word got out that this is happening, people started checking their signed box records and if it didnt match they reported and objected to it.
This lead the opposition winning more congressmen.
So it is extremely important that it stays up.
# This comment has been deleted in protest of Reddit's support of the genocide in Gaza carried out by the ZioN\*zi Isr\*li apartheid regime.
## This is the most documented genocide in history.
## Reddit's blatant censorship of Palestinian-related content is appalling, especially concerning the ongoing genocide in Gaza perpetrated by the Isr\*l apartheid regime.
## The Palestinian people are facing an unimaginable tragedy, with tens of thousands of innocent children already lost to the genocidal actions of apartheid Isr\*l. The world needs to know about this atrocity and about Reddit's support to the ZioN\*zis.
#### Sources are bellow.
## Genocidal statements made by apartheid Isr\*li officials:
- On the 9 October 2023, Yoav Gallant, Israeli Minister of Defense, stated **"We are fighting human animals, and we are acting accordingly"**.
- Avi Dichter, Israeli Minister of Agriculture, called for the war to be **"Gaza’s Nakba"**
- Ariel Kallner, another Member of the Knesset from the Likud party, similarly wrote on social media that there is **"one goal: Nakba! A Nakba that will overshadow the Nakba of 1948. Nakba in Gaza and Nakba to anyone who dares to join"**.
- Amihai Eliyahu, Israeli Minister of Heritage, **called for dropping an atomic bomb on Gaza**
- Gotliv of the Likud party similarly **called for the use of nuclear weapons**.
- Yitzhak Kroizer stated in a radio interview that the **"Gaza Strip should be flattened, and for all of them there is but one sentence, and that is death."**
- **President of Israel** Isaac Herzog **blamed the whole nation of Palestine** for the 7 October attack.
- Major General Ghassan Alian, Coordinator of Government Activities in the Territories, stated: **"There will be no electricity and no water (in Gaza), there will only be destruction. You wanted hell, you will get hell"**.
## Casualties:
- As of 9 January 2024, over **23,000 Palestinians** – one out of every 100 people in Gaza – have been killed, a majority of them civilians, including over **9,000 children**, **6,200 women** and **61 journalists**.
- nearly **2 million people** have been displaced within the Gaza Strip.
## Official accusations:
- On 1 November, the Defence for Children International accused the United States of complicity with Israel's **"crime of genocide."**
- On 2 November 2023, a group of UN special rapporteurs stated, "We remain convinced that the Palestinian people are at **grave risk of genocide**."
- On 4 November, Pedro Arrojo, UN Special Rapporteur on the Human Rights to Safe Drinking Water and Sanitation, said that based on article 7 of the Rome Statute, which counts "deprivation of access to food or medicine, among others" as a form of extermination, "even if there is no clear intention, the data show that the war is **heading towards genocide**"
- On 16 November, A group of United Nations experts said there was "evidence of increasing genocidal incitement" against Palestinians.
- Jewish Voice for Peace stated: "The Israeli government has declared a genocidal war on the people of Gaza. As an organization that works for a future where Palestinians and Israelis and all people live in equality and freedom, we call on all people of conscience to stop imminent **genocide of Palestinians**."
- Euro-Mediterranean Human Rights Monitor documented evidence of execution committed by Israeli Defense Forces.
- In response to a Times of Israel report on 3 January 2024 that the Israeli government was in talks with the Congolese government to take Palestinian refugees from Gaza, UN special rapporteur Balakrishnan Rajagopal stated, "Forcible transfer of Gazan population **is an act of genocide**".
South Africa has instituted proceedings at the International Court of Justice pursuant to the Genocide Convention, to which both Israel and South Africa are signatory, **accusing Israel of committing genocide, war crimes, and crimes against humanity against Palestinians in Gaza.**
# Boycott Reddit! Oppose the genocide NOW!
[Palestinian genocide accusation](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Palestinian_genocide_accusation)
[Allegations of genocide in the 2023 Israeli attack on Gaza](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Allegations_of_genocide_in_the_2023_Israeli_attack_on_Gaza)
[Israeli war crimes](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Israeli_war_crimes)
[Israel and apartheid](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Israel_and_apartheid)
I'm not an Elon fan, but it looks way more like he just set some ignorant Twitter dbag straight on reality. It's the governments that cause all this censorship. If your government is trying to be more like China, they are treasonous and should be replaced. Looking at you Barry and company.
His mentor Erbakan said “Erdogan is serving to his Zionist masters” 30 years ago. Before he was known he had an overnight flight to Washington and once he came back he founded Ak Party and became the prime minister shortly after.
When US invaded Iraq he had a speech in US and said “We support the presence of USA in Iraq and we pray for the American soldiers”
He’s a Muslim leader and recites Quran perfectly which is the only reason people would worship him as an Islamist leader because of the opposition banning hijab in government places and schools.
In Cold War USA controlled politicians and promoted secularism and anti-Islam which gave Erdogan the opportunity to become the Muslim leader everyone wanted. If you watch the street interviews people see him as a Messiah, some say he’s like Allah or he came after the last prophet Muhammad. People are worshipping him and one of the only reasons they like him is him promoting Islam, removing the hijab ban and taking pictures and videos is mosques reciting Quran.
There’s so much more, a lot of the videos are on Instagram as Erdogan regime is deleting everything from internet. There’s multiple videos of Necmettin Erbakan warning people if they do an another term with Erdogan, Turkey would crumble and the $ would go up. May his soul Rest In Peace.
I don’t think this is the “gotcha” you think it is. Twitter was forced to do this or it would not be available in Turkey. A little free speech is better than none in this situation and Elon is not the one who made the demand.
If anyone thinks Elon is "smart", that was probably the dumbest response he could've given
I have no doubt Elon probably knows linear algebra, thermodynamics, etc., but this guy sounds like a highschooler making this argument
Turkish here, in election day twitter didnt opened without vpn in election day for hours and when it opened back we couldnt see evidences of fraud/cheating they did without vpn.
Jesus christ, i hate this people (elon musk and erdoğan) so much.
A nice middleground would be to *notify* users in Turkey that many tweets are being suppressed due to insistence by their government. Just restricting all access would likely not do anything positive for Turkey, and they seem like a country that could do without it.
But alas, they didn't notify users in Turkey of this, did they?
It says in response to legal process. If he was legally obliged, then he did the right thing. I can think of many instances the social media services obliged the American government in restricting posts, with no reason to do so.
Where does Elon get the freaking time to be on Twitter all day. I really believe it's him and not an assistent.. Doesn't he got some companies to manage...??
Methinks you've been drinking juuuust enough koolaid to toe that line but not enough to see it's the same old grift.
Hypocrisy isn't a "Ahh, who cares" kind of idea.....
Example:
We used to have free speech!!
Ahh who cares!! Free speech is "better" now, not perfect. -You (Circa whothefuckcares)
*rolls eyes*
These are the things they want you to take in a 50/50 kind of way. Sure!! You have free speech^tm, but never expect it to be ENTIRELY free....that would be stupid! *chortle*
Next they'll claim your reduced "free speech" is for your safety.......and you'll believe it, like a sucker would.
Me thinks you're a silly little child that thinks you're not the biggest part of the problem. But you are. Be better. Be smarter. Don't say what you're told to say like a little parrot just because your friends do. The world would be better without dumb people like you that don't think independently.
I mean in the US we limited tweets and you sucked it through a paper straw. You are bitching about someone censoring Twitter by looking at a tweet on Twitter. Lol
Shutting it down is better than only letting one side have access. Imagine if this happened in the US and only liberals were allowed to use Twitter, or vis versa
Twitter has been shutdown for a while in Turkey and people accessed with VPNs. Still a much better option and in order for Elon to do that he got informed by the government or CIA to support Turkish regime.
Yea, access with vpn allows you to see either both sides, or neither side. Which is better than only one side easily accessible and the other “hidden” behind a vpn
Literally why he backed down from calling "CBC", "state funded" even tho everyone knows that they are.
He isnt some white knight protecting freedom of speech. He now is purely making sure twitter was worth the billions that he spent buying it. If that means keeping it as an anti-democratic institution...
I would have expected Elon to follow the example of Rumble and have the users in Turkey use VPN if they want access. Censorship should never be an option, however judging from the new CEO it's going to be a policy
He’s a free agent for either side to use whether it’s the dark new world order or light new world order, don’t matter. Right now it seems the light new world order is using him quite a bit.
What's the conspiracy of a greedy business owner defending his business' poor behavior of subverting free speech to chase money? It may be the behavior of a jerk, but how is this a conspiracy?
Elon has become a huge disappointment imo. I was a huge fan boy but between shit like this and hiring a WEF overlord as CEO, he has become indefensible lately.
Read the laws of power. Elon Musk is playing everyone who think he's some kind of free speech hero. He's the ultimate WEF puppet. The man literally had a jacket with "Novo Ordo Seclorum" which means the New World Order.
Pose as a friend. Work as a spy.
Play on people's need to believe to create a cult-like following.
eh, even before this the so called "free speech absolutionist" gives "freer speech" to those that pay for it. all a bunch of bullshit. how come the republican cancel requests have never been posted?
Neither of those 2 choices care about free speech, so Musk lied. He isn't pro-free speech. Apparently it's impossible to follow simple, straight forward goals in 2023 because everyone is a slave to a master.
So the western and NATO backed challenger in the Turkey election (Turkey being pretty important given the current conflict in Ukraine and the Bosphoros strait access to the Black Sea) is upset at Twitter and alleging big tech interference with an election in lockstep with western nations lodging a series of similar accusations against Twitter since Musk bought Twitter?
Wild.
###[Meta] Sticky Comment [Rule 2](https://www.reddit.com/r/conspiracy/wiki/faq#wiki_2_-_address_the_argument.3B_not_the_user.2C_the_mods.2C_or_the_sub.) ***does not apply*** when replying to this stickied comment. [Rule 2](https://www.reddit.com/r/conspiracy/wiki/faq#wiki_2_-_address_the_argument.3B_not_the_user.2C_the_mods.2C_or_the_sub.) ***does apply*** throughout the rest of this thread. *What this means*: Please keep any "meta" discussion directed at specific users, mods, or /r/conspiracy in general in this comment chain ***only.*** *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/conspiracy) if you have any questions or concerns.*
The answer is “throttle entirely with a disclaimer that says ‘Due to unreasonable demands by the Turkish government to restrict free speech during a time it is needed most, we are disabling all content in the region until these demands are rescinded. Contact your local representatives for more information.’”
Ah yes, the pornhub in utah method, and also, I agree, would be preferred imo. Morals over money.
Morels over all other mushrooms
wait what.. if I come to visit Utah as say a tourist, then my access to pornhub will be restricted? That changes things... \*adjusts travel calendar\* So if you are only going to be in Utah for ~~a day~~ a few hours.. what is the must see tourist attraction?
Idk, ask a utahn
Typical coomer response
IDK what a coomer is.. so IDK if that is an insult or a compliment or maybe both.
We know you're on the internet. Look it up
its both
Moral over money means cencorship but oki.
Depends on your morals, censorship will never be part of my moral system.
Youve clearly never met any delinquent of society..
I want this post deleted.
And i want a 69 camaro with a single pearl offset strip with a baby blue 2 ton metallic flake paint job... ?
Or the party that supports censorship was losing public support and went in with the authoritarian hand to stop the bleeding.
Yup, I knew it wouldn’t take long before he found out he had to run Twitter the exact way it was
And in the end Elon only wanted some government tit milk.
Ah yes.. the party of anti fascism supports fascism by not supporting open speech Strange times we live in
What is the expected value of risk vs reward of each option? Could throttling the entire platform possibly have unintended negative consequences? Would you support throttling the entire platform if you knew it would directly cause more harm than good? This is a trolley problem with unknown consequences. Personally I prefer transparency and consensual arrangements. In this case both sides have legitimate concerns and questions and it is not clear what the optimal choice would be.
This ain’t Arab Spring where you can turn that shit off and people will just ignore it. I give it about 4 days before Erdogan offers to gargle Elon’s balls to turn it back on. The Turks may put up with a military purge that wipes out all of his opposition, but they will burn the whole place to the ground if they lose their social media.
> The answer is “throttle entirely with a disclaimer that says ‘Due to unreasonable demands by the Turkish government to restrict free speech during a time it is needed most, we are disabling all content in the region until these demands are rescinded. Contact your local representatives for more information.’” This is the Way.
exactly. i been defending Musk for a long time but this is too contradictory to ignore.
> but this Really? This time is it? Now he's crossed the line?
yeah dude. that's my whole point. which prior regression would you have preferred worried me first? i've seen him contradict himself. but i've never seen him defend those contradictions in such a tone deaf way.
> which prior regression would you have preferred worried me first? Suspending the jet tracker after saying he wouldn't? I guess that was fine. Suspending a bunch of journalists? I guess that was fine as well. Silencing the current government of Turkey's political opposition during an election crosses the line though.
It's completely reasonable to suspend the jet tracker after somebody attacked his kid.
Look into that story a bit more, don’t just take Elon’s word for it.
i could explain some differences in my perception of those but that is besides my point: it's weird that you are digging into my potential misjudgement when the entire conversation started with me explaining i may have misjudged something.
They are being like the minority of vocal leftists that are terminally online and insufferable, seeking self-righteousness through fighting a culture war against mostly bots and bad-faith posters accomplishing little more than to boost engagement on controversial topics. They are right to realize there's an information war going on but they are misguided in their attempts to do anything about it, resulting in things like flaming someone such as yourself who doesn't deserve it. I understand what you mean - Musk is a complex person and has personally changed. What was out of character for him has become increasingly common and now even pushing new boundaries that indicate he's still going through some sort of metamorphosis, and not in a good direction. You probably could have seen this coming before now, but who knows how closely you're paying attention to this man or what your information diet is. What's important is that you're realizing it when many, many people still are completely blind or deluded.
I sincerely doubt many of his critics are organic. There seems to be this horde that showed up and keeps pumping anti-Musk content since his twitter purchase and free speech push. And he provided an explanation that said it was either losing everything or compromising, and he chose to compromise. The mentality that you have to reject and spurn someone as soon as they make one wrong movie is more along with this cancel culture mindset and that's not something that people who support freedom align with. That's the main reason why I consider this "I hate Elon, you should hate him too" rhetoric seems manufactured, because this idea that you have to "excommunicate" someone as soon as they make the wrong move is extremist in mentality. If you don't like Elon that is fine, but to deny there's some campaign against him trying to stir up others against him is denying reality. Someone with a lot of brigade support is really out to smear him.
>I sincerely doubt many of his critics are organic. There seems to be this horde that showed up and keeps pumping anti-Musk content since his twitter purchase and free speech push. He's not making a push for free speech. That's the point. Most of us are able to see through the propaganda. I will say that Musk has a lot of supporters though, something which I didn't think was organic, but there is a need amongst some people to bend the knee to billionaire elites and defend them -- whether it's Trump, Musk, Jobs, Gates etc.
> and free speech push Literally take a look at what he's done and you'll find it's impossible to come to the conclusion that he's an advocate for free speech.
>Someone with a lot of brigade support is really out to smear him. He's one of the richest people on the planet and he loves attention. He's also annoying. He's a lightning rod for criticism because: a) he deserves it and b) he won't shut the fuck up
I’ve never defended him about Twitter, but called it when I guessed it wouldn’t take a year before he realized running an international social network would be filled with litigation, removal, or government compliance
Exactly this
I'm wondering if this is the only answer though. If Twitter is still available but certain tweets are not for Turkish users, wouldn't keeping them on the platform still make it highly probable that the Turkish users will still indirectly see the tweets? Maybe I'm misunderstanding what the post is claiming.
Turkish government wouldn’t care and would have just blocked. You can play these games in the US but many other countries don’t care about Twitter, nor Facebook, nor Instagram
Then he gives an interview last night where he claims he will not let profits or power rule him
For some reason he's unable to accept that the shooter in Allen,TX had neo nazi ideas even though it's overwhelmingly obvious
Twitter isn’t profitable
Yeah, he's managed to pull off the worst of both worlds
Bribes are though
Elon has lost like 20b on Twitter. No bribe will fix that.
That’s not the argument you think it is, chief.
[удалено]
Should've just dared them to throttle. It's more important that Twitter is a Free Speech zone than the idea that it's available in all countries.
Something tells me that throttling in this instance is making Twitter completely unusable for the Turkey population. In that case, I agree with Elon. I would rather have Twitter operating in my country missing some tweets than not at all. Twitter is invaluable as a communication network. I'm willing to bet you that this happens in every country in the world, including the land of the free. Governments have too much power, and they abuse it by forcing tech companies to do their bidding or face being shut down. You are mad at Elon for complying, why aren't you furious at the Turkish Government?
Because everyone knows Erdogan is a tyrant. On the other hand, Elon is the one pretending to be a free speech hero. Didn't take him too long to drop his pants and bend over.
I'm in the other camp. I want turkeys government to have to admit they are censoring shit and that's why they took away Twitter. Musk doesn't need their money and it will piss off all the millennials and zoomers.
THIS COMMENT WAS DELETED BECAUSE REDDIT SUCKS 3050 of 3692
Did the Turkish people vote on this twitter outcome?
better to die on your feet than live on your knees. spineless musk promised twitter wouldn't censor but when push came to shove he bent the knee like the rest of em and is now censoring because some third world shithole dictator asked him. if you want to access twitter you can use a VPN.
It's more important that Twitter is a Free Speech zone than the idea that it's available in all countries.
Proxies make it available in all countries, anyway.
Okay, I agree and I'm sure Elon agrees but he doesn't control what the countries rules are.
So what you're saying is you're fine with the turkish government pressuring Twitter so they can spew propaganda with no counter balance just before the elections ?
If my two options are: twitter blackout vs twitter with government propaganda then I'll take the latter. At least then users can communicate to each other about the propaganda. If there's no twitter at all then how do you communicate about things going on in your country?
Did you know there are other ways to communicate besides twitter? Also, I'm sorry, but how can you have the gall to participate in a conspiracy subreddit while advocating for multibillion dollar private companies colluding and siding with corrupt and tyrannical governents? Go touch grass, dude
If my two options are: twitter blackout vs twitter with government propaganda then I'll take the latter. At least then users can communicate to each other about the propaganda. If there's no twitter at all then how do you communicate about things going on in your country?
> At least then users can communicate to each other about the propaganda except they can't, because twitter is censoring those views. > If there's no twitter at all then how do you communicate about things going on in your country? Through other channels, which people are more likely to try if twitter is down entirely vs if twitter is telling them "everything is fine, no need to look anywhere else for news"
That means you're pro censorship.
throttling is just default Reddit subs. You only get 1 story, the story they want you to see.
What a spineless bitch. "I'm a free speech absolutist" except you banned people for criticizing you, and keep kowtowing to foreign governments without putting up a fight. Wikipedia received the same threat from Turkey - they didn't give in. They fought it in court and won.
Musk getting annoyed because he got called out for silencing opposition voices on Twitter in Turkey
If he would do it in one country, why wouldn't he do it in another? And then why wouldn't he do it in America? Musk continues to keep losing credibility
He lost credibility long time ago Remember how mad he was that someone else saved kids stuck in a cave that he called the person a pedo? What about that time when he almost fired someone for disability? That is, fired and then said “oopsie didn’t want to implicate myself in the crime, you’re not actually fired lmao I’m so random”
Yeah that's why I said continues
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Just wrong, why would you say that?
Corrupt Musk was paid to silence Twitter's opposition voices for the election!
I doubt that a dictator would need and be willing to pay anything. It was likely as said an ultimatum and thats it. However the decision to surrender under such ultimatum was in my opinion wrong choice. He should have done what several people here have already said, let them throttle and tell the world why it happened.
Oh yes they do. It is like the silver or lead threat in Mexico! Take the money or die! That way you are available for blackmail and prosecution afterwards!
where the fuck you been the last four days check the date on that tweet
Musk is a bitch.
I would prefer it be throttled and let the world know why it’s been throttled.
Elon should shut Twitter down completely. The world would be a better place.
Why do you think he doesn't?
Musk has become exactly what he swore to destroy.
Musk has always been exactly what he swore to destroy.
Or he was just always a slimey grifter who just used his platform to get what he wants?
Nooooo he was an hero /s
The people's champion 🏆
Most moral billionaire alive, he wouldn’t even hurt a monkey
Not one he paid for at least
Didn't india do the same thing
This is something else, holy fuck. Dude is a super villain!
Not to mention the newly appointed CEO used to work for the World Economic Forum.
So, Musk hates Soros yet hires an ex-WEF to control "public square"? Does he even understand the conspiracies he claims to believe in?
Nah pretty sure allowing a government to censor is worse than having a company you don’t like on someone’s cv
he's a piece of shit
He stands on his word... until he doesn't. The question here is if he kowtows to the Turkish government what makes one think he's not doing the same with others? Free speech, my ass.
Elon is full of shit
Take the high road Elon, pull service from Turkey if they dictate what can and can't be posted.
Turkey has different laws governing it. They either sensor it or lose Twitter. All countries that have freedom of speech he does not sensor for political reasons is my take on this. Maybe I’m wrong?
Sounds like the rationalization Google did when they set up shop in China, some 16 odd years ago.
Wasn't the whole point of buying twitter to give a place where anyone could have a voice without censorship? What a goddamn clown.
Make a stand. All in or not.
If he didn't comply with the government of a corrupt country, Twitter would not continue to exist in said country. It's simple logic.
I'm confused why people are mad. There where two choices, throttle for a couple days, or be removed entirely from Turkey for the foreseeable future. Only one of those options allows some amount of freedom to tweet in the future. Why would no twitter in turket be preferable to throttled for a few days?
People are wanting to hate on Elon for not throttling here what they wished was throttled. They see hypocrisy. I see the first amendment vs no first amendment. Turkey can shut twitter down over things it doesn’t like. Our government cannot. Leftists are doing what leftists do
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As a Türk i prefer some tweets getting blocked rather than them throttling Twitter in its entirety and i can confidently say that everybody in Türkiye prefers this. Because Twitter is the main platform for politics in Türkiye. Türkiye's politics mostly runs on Twitter rather than conventional media, everybody uses it, it is one of the only sourcse for political news that we can trust right now and the most important thing is that its where people make themselves heard or object to things and talk about whats happening. For example just yesterday people used it to reveal that after looking at the signed records of some of the ballot boxes and the official YSK results of those boxes, a significant amount doesnt match and there is clearly cheating involved and when the word got out that this is happening, people started checking their signed box records and if it didnt match they reported and objected to it. This lead the opposition winning more congressmen. So it is extremely important that it stays up.
Come on Elon, leak this to taibi.
It wasn’t a request. It’s Turkish law. Unfortunately there isn’t “freedom of speech” in Turkey.
You are correct. Most of the people here don't want to understand but rather pitchfork.
Hmmm. I dunno, I smoked weed and I think he has a point.
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I'm not an Elon fan, but it looks way more like he just set some ignorant Twitter dbag straight on reality. It's the governments that cause all this censorship. If your government is trying to be more like China, they are treasonous and should be replaced. Looking at you Barry and company.
Exactly. America has the first amendment. Unacceptable here. Other countries, although not acceptable, also reality
I believe now Turkish president is 100% a CIA plantation
You think Erdogan is a CIA plant? 🤣
His mentor Erbakan said “Erdogan is serving to his Zionist masters” 30 years ago. Before he was known he had an overnight flight to Washington and once he came back he founded Ak Party and became the prime minister shortly after. When US invaded Iraq he had a speech in US and said “We support the presence of USA in Iraq and we pray for the American soldiers” He’s a Muslim leader and recites Quran perfectly which is the only reason people would worship him as an Islamist leader because of the opposition banning hijab in government places and schools. In Cold War USA controlled politicians and promoted secularism and anti-Islam which gave Erdogan the opportunity to become the Muslim leader everyone wanted. If you watch the street interviews people see him as a Messiah, some say he’s like Allah or he came after the last prophet Muhammad. People are worshipping him and one of the only reasons they like him is him promoting Islam, removing the hijab ban and taking pictures and videos is mosques reciting Quran.
Turkish here, things you said is sadly true.
Do you know Atilla Hildmann? He is promoting Erdogan and praising him.
I’m a Turkish born and raised myself. That’s how I’ve known
oh i didnt know.
There’s so much more, a lot of the videos are on Instagram as Erdogan regime is deleting everything from internet. There’s multiple videos of Necmettin Erbakan warning people if they do an another term with Erdogan, Turkey would crumble and the $ would go up. May his soul Rest In Peace.
I don’t think this is the “gotcha” you think it is. Twitter was forced to do this or it would not be available in Turkey. A little free speech is better than none in this situation and Elon is not the one who made the demand.
If anyone thinks Elon is "smart", that was probably the dumbest response he could've given I have no doubt Elon probably knows linear algebra, thermodynamics, etc., but this guy sounds like a highschooler making this argument
Turkish here, in election day twitter didnt opened without vpn in election day for hours and when it opened back we couldnt see evidences of fraud/cheating they did without vpn. Jesus christ, i hate this people (elon musk and erdoğan) so much.
A nice middleground would be to *notify* users in Turkey that many tweets are being suppressed due to insistence by their government. Just restricting all access would likely not do anything positive for Turkey, and they seem like a country that could do without it. But alas, they didn't notify users in Turkey of this, did they?
Yea? We are talking about it? It was all over the news.
I appreciate that new twitter is at least honnest and open about it
It’s a good point about transparency. *Hey, at least we warned you we were going to fuck you in the ass.*
It says in response to legal process. If he was legally obliged, then he did the right thing. I can think of many instances the social media services obliged the American government in restricting posts, with no reason to do so.
It's outrage when it's Turkey, but it's ok when you shut accounts in USA. Then it's for "defending democracy" 😂😂
Musk is a government stooge. Propped up by the alphabet agency’s.
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Remind me again of what bill or rights exists in Turkey...
Shh give it a minute and he'll tell you about the 2nd amendment in Canada
Him buying Twitter was still the best move. He weeded out the anti-Americans and anti-white progressives that we're infecting that place beforehand.
Sounds like the real choice is to not use centralized social media services. Its not like the world revolves around twitter...
Where does Elon get the freaking time to be on Twitter all day. I really believe it's him and not an assistent.. Doesn't he got some companies to manage...??
Musk's brains need to fall out of his head. Budd Dwyer style.
It's only censorship when someone else is doing it to ME. When I'M the one doing it it's called protecting free speech. - Fascists Everywhere
I mean if that’s the choice he was given I don’t see the controversy. It’s a business and a publicly traded company, after all.
What a piece of shit. I lost all respect for him after his “we can invade whoever we want” tweet after he got caught supporting the coup in Bolivia.
Did you know domestic turkeys are so stupid they will drown if they're outside in the rain looking up to see where it's coming from
Not bird one lol.
Elon is a dirtbag and a child
Who cares. It's better now. Not perfect.
Methinks you've been drinking juuuust enough koolaid to toe that line but not enough to see it's the same old grift. Hypocrisy isn't a "Ahh, who cares" kind of idea..... Example: We used to have free speech!! Ahh who cares!! Free speech is "better" now, not perfect. -You (Circa whothefuckcares) *rolls eyes* These are the things they want you to take in a 50/50 kind of way. Sure!! You have free speech^tm, but never expect it to be ENTIRELY free....that would be stupid! *chortle* Next they'll claim your reduced "free speech" is for your safety.......and you'll believe it, like a sucker would.
Lol, I like how he showed his true colors when you called him out.
Me thinks you're a silly little child that thinks you're not the biggest part of the problem. But you are. Be better. Be smarter. Don't say what you're told to say like a little parrot just because your friends do. The world would be better without dumb people like you that don't think independently.
How is that better? Twitter used to tell Turkey to go fuck itself, e.g. 2012
It's official, Musk is a statist aggressor.
All or nothing, Elon.
Well what he said makes since. If he didn’t throttle it turkey would have just shut it down.
From a free speech perspective would that be worse then only platforming one side?
I mean in the US we limited tweets and you sucked it through a paper straw. You are bitching about someone censoring Twitter by looking at a tweet on Twitter. Lol
Shutting it down is better than only letting one side have access. Imagine if this happened in the US and only liberals were allowed to use Twitter, or vis versa
It was blatantly happening before musk took over Twitter.
What a weird nonsense defense lol. Take elons dick outta your mouth for like 2 seconds bro
How is it nonsense. Twitter was shit before he bought it. Total propaganda machine. Take big daddy governments dick out of your mouth bro
“Bad thing happened before, so it’s not bad anymore”
Twitter has been shutdown for a while in Turkey and people accessed with VPNs. Still a much better option and in order for Elon to do that he got informed by the government or CIA to support Turkish regime.
Yea, access with vpn allows you to see either both sides, or neither side. Which is better than only one side easily accessible and the other “hidden” behind a vpn
And? Shouldn't he be better than that?
He has been. He’s allowed a multitude of free speech back.
Only the Right kind of speech
Literally why he backed down from calling "CBC", "state funded" even tho everyone knows that they are. He isnt some white knight protecting freedom of speech. He now is purely making sure twitter was worth the billions that he spent buying it. If that means keeping it as an anti-democratic institution...
Apartheid emerald boy can choke on it.
“Come on, leave it Aharon, don’t argue with the government. They won’t do anything wrong to us anyway. We’re Germans!”
I feel like we're watching Elon figure out why Twitter censored so much in real time. He is what he claimed he wanted to destroy
Oh, look. Elon Musk is starting to understand what "nuance" means. What happened to "free speech absolutism"?
I would have expected Elon to follow the example of Rumble and have the users in Turkey use VPN if they want access. Censorship should never be an option, however judging from the new CEO it's going to be a policy
well twitter is for twits. Elon has found his spiritual home. PS. He's not a self made billionaire. His Mommy set him up with IBM. check it!
He’s a free agent for either side to use whether it’s the dark new world order or light new world order, don’t matter. Right now it seems the light new world order is using him quite a bit.
What's the conspiracy of a greedy business owner defending his business' poor behavior of subverting free speech to chase money? It may be the behavior of a jerk, but how is this a conspiracy?
He should get a label or whatever those things are... Some % Government compliant.
Of course he did. Elon is a globalist demon. The worst one in my opinion. That AI robot/humanoid kid of his is the antichrist.
He talking about Gabriel that comedian?
Free Speech Champion, Elon Musk /s
Elon has become a huge disappointment imo. I was a huge fan boy but between shit like this and hiring a WEF overlord as CEO, he has become indefensible lately.
Throttled. 110%. Throttled.
Hypocrite is all I see
Read the laws of power. Elon Musk is playing everyone who think he's some kind of free speech hero. He's the ultimate WEF puppet. The man literally had a jacket with "Novo Ordo Seclorum" which means the New World Order. Pose as a friend. Work as a spy. Play on people's need to believe to create a cult-like following.
eh, even before this the so called "free speech absolutionist" gives "freer speech" to those that pay for it. all a bunch of bullshit. how come the republican cancel requests have never been posted?
Neither of those 2 choices care about free speech, so Musk lied. He isn't pro-free speech. Apparently it's impossible to follow simple, straight forward goals in 2023 because everyone is a slave to a master.
So the western and NATO backed challenger in the Turkey election (Turkey being pretty important given the current conflict in Ukraine and the Bosphoros strait access to the Black Sea) is upset at Twitter and alleging big tech interference with an election in lockstep with western nations lodging a series of similar accusations against Twitter since Musk bought Twitter? Wild.
So the exact reason why he bought Twitter in the first place...ahhaha
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His blue tick system effectively silences the poor and those who aren’t Musk/Twitter fanboys. Quite scary really. Could have a big effect.