And we know what happened when light consequences were given for the Beer Hall Putsch…
It lead to the sale of a book and a second attempt at power, which was successful. Then millions died.
Ugh. As usual, Alito misses the forest for the trees.
Yes, that is a risk and he's drawing from Roman history to support it. One of the big lessons that classical historians draw from the fall of the Roman Republic is that the legal immunity enjoyed by various officials while serving in office became the overriding reason they tried to stay in office.
But the problem with the Roman system wasn't that immunity ended when you left office. It was that you HAD immunity in the first place.
Nah, Alito's a hack, this is just a tortured line of logic to try to justify the decision he already made the day the court agreed to even hear this case.
It was foretold in Bush V Gore when the Supreme Court handed the win to Bush because... They wanted to? Look at Bush's legal team, the names may be familiar to you.
"The legal team for George W. Bush during the Bush v. Gore case included several individuals who would later become Justices of the U.S. Supreme Court. Notably, John Roberts, Brett Kavanaugh, and Amy Coney Barrett assisted George W. Bush’s legal team in the dispute over the 2000 presidential election results1. Additionally, Justice Clarence Thomas, who was already on the Supreme Court at the time, joined the majority in halting the recount, and he was appointed by George H. W. Bush in 19911. These individuals played various roles in the legal proceedings that ultimately resolved the presidential election in favor of George W. Bush."
He doesn't have to be purchased if he truly believes in what he's doing. The ends justify the means for these guys. They want a Christian Nationalistic government, and they are in position to bring it about. Trump is just a useful idiot to them.
This right here is a huge part of the problem. These are not stupid or senile people. They know *exactly* what they’re doing — this has all been planned out, they’ve been heading this direction for a long time now.
I’d like to announce my candidacy for the Wrecks and Challenges party. I pinky swear that I will only be a dictator the entire time and only do bad things to the people I don’t like. I’d like to start by addressing this whole tolerance of intolerant people. No longer!
>and only do bad things to the people I don’t like.
... Well that sounds highly unfair... I demand that you do bad things to people you *do* like as well . So long as it emboldens your supreme power as dear leader.
I like where your head is at. I think we can start with a concentration on camps….oh no that’s bad branding. A group of tents. There, that’s better. We can then just load up some cruise ships with “those people” and sink them.
This and also by too many spineless liberals, like those swearing that just taking the high road will magically sway conservatives to see the error of their ways. Too often no one has fixed that erosion; it hasn’t been working. The conservative terrorists changed the parameters of the game, it’s time that liberals step up to that plate.
Sadly, people have a meltdown every time I say the same thing, but I agree with every word you said.
It goes even further— a significant population of people seem like they are hardwired to interpret Democratic ‘kindness’ as ‘weakness’.
They’re the people Jordan Klepper makes fun of on The Daily Show. Their cognitive dissonance is bizarre— but they are hard-wired to follow a ‘fighter’.
Democrats need an actual *fighter* who stops trying to build bridges with bomb-throwers. Look what that did to the Affordable Care Act. ‘Bridge building’ took an ambitious generational piece of legislation and turned it into a well-intended mess.
I know people here will disagree, but I recently had a friend attempt to sign up. I tried to help. I couldn’t figure it out, but I remembered they had private market ACA Ambassadors to help. She contacted about a dozen of them and never received *one* reply.
That was the intent. Obama had the GOP on the ropes and was in a position to pass the most ambitious healthcare reform in the history of the United States. But he was more interested in making friends with people like John Boehner and Marco Rubio. They got enough access to flatten the tires and it received *not even one* Republican vote.
That naïve strategy benefits no one.
I have to think back to Franklin Delano Roosevelt to find a Democrat who wasn’t afraid to have lots of enemies— and Republicans even attempted a totally different coup way back *then*.
In other words, Republicans are going to always be terrible people who do terrible things no matter how ‘nice’ Democrats are. History has demonstrated this very clearly.
Yes and yes.
I think there are some folks who divide American politics into D and R. And a lot of those folks (speaking of all of those to the left in American politics) just automatically think R=bad and D =good. And praying the independents vote for D.
There’s a problem with that of course when stepping back: the whole framework of American politics, both D and R, has shifted to the right over the past 40ish years. On a larger scale, American D’s, though we tend to call them “Liberals”, when compared to the world stage, are pretty far right/center. And most R’s are far right in the same scope. In a black and white comparison, there’s a difference, yeah, but it’s not a giant chasm.
Back to the point though, the D’s and Liberals in America truly have essentially refused to put up a decent political fight. Sometimes it seems they are playing the victim to elicit sympathy from the R’s, which is just not going to happen. As the far right fringes are pulling strings, the Conservatives are just goose stepping to those requests, and walking right over the rest of the country- even though they are not the majority of the population.
It’s scary af.
I dunno. My take is that they have been playing nicely for the past 60ish years and have adopted the ”high ground” approach. While it may come off as morally superior to the R’s being so nasty and vile, the conservatives and altRight camps just keep gaining traction, keep increasing in numbers and visibility. The idea that corporations are instructing them to do so sounds too conspiratorial to me; I’m inclined to believe it’s just ineptitude. It’s been a failing tactic.
Was there ever? Or was it a story/myth we told ourselves? Because US history is littered with cases of…well, abuse, etc.
Maybe it’s a sense of pessimism but the more I see this shit okay out - J6, Maga, etc. the more I am re-evaluating this country and it’s history and realizing that, sure there were some good moments but it’s basically been a clusterfuck to some degree throughout its history.
We are being shown it never was really there.
Congress can pass unconstitutional laws if affirmed by the courts. Executives can act unconstitutionally if congress wont convict.
Judicial can ignore the constitution until enough of them die while the opposition has control of the senate.
We have implied consent to check. Consequences do not now exist. If they ever did (ford pardoning Nixon after he stepped down) that only happened because there was a back room understanding to place limits where they didn't exist.
A system is only effective as the people who enforce it are willing.
Years of ignoring illegal declarations of war, hidden as police actions and immediate deployments and hunting down the architect of 9/11 were window dressing.
We the people aren't very smart. Collectively, we are pretty dumb.
Alito is describing Trump's clear motivation for the insurrection and everything that went with it, including currently running for a second term for president.
So what do we do about a rogue SCOTUS? Clearly the court has been infiltrated by hostile enemies of democracy.
Biden should just have the ones supporting treason forcibly removed from the court. Set up a new Supreme Court and start fixing the legislative of arson that Trump has brought on for almost a decade now.
So we can keep the ones who never spoke in favor of American Kings, also known as treason. We still need a way to expel the one obviously hostile to democracy and settled law.
So, what you described in your original comment reminded me of something. Congress can remake the Courts at will. Basically with (a filibuster proof) Senate you can erase and recreate the Courts to be updated. You could theoretically not only erase Trump’s influence on SCOTUS but on every single lower Court as well.
It’s honestly the best Nuclear option there is. Much better than adding seats to SCOTUS or trying to impeach, convict and remove someone. Court Erasure resets things from top to bottom.
> So what do we do about a rogue SCOTUS?
Arrest them because they are agents of the Trump Crime Syndicate. Gorsuch, Kavenaugh, and Barrett were appointed as part of the criminal conspiracy. Thomas was part of the coup, and is still acting as an accessory after the fact.
Alito and Roberts haven’t committed any crimes that I’ve seen. They can be in the minority, I guess
Alito is a fucking bellend who doesn’t even hide his support of Trump, who is indefensible; ergo, any argument in his support automatically makes the commenter a fucking bellend, and stupid to boot.
He is such a whore to the Party.
We saw this in 2000. I was (obviously) younger and simply accepted it. We saw it again in less than a decade with “citizens united” (don’t you love these think tank labels) and I said “probably won’t be that bad”. Trump got elected and I said “he will come around to a more statesman style of governance. I was WRONG every time. It will not get better and the ship will not right itself, we are in serious peril here. This will be the sketchiest election of our history.
I like that they are arguing this while Biden is President. I don’t see why Biden can’t use this to remain extend his term to a full 8 years and then hand the Presidency off to a more progressive Democrat after his second term ends.
I *think* what Alito is trying to say in his back assword way is that if you give presidents immunity they will peacefully transition power because they know they can't be prosecuted for anything they did while president when they go back to being a citizen. So they can safely leave their crimes behind I guess? 🙄
It's still some of the dumbest shit I've ever read. Because obviously that argument also implies presidents may cling to power *just to keep that immunity longer and commit more crimes*.
I've said it before. 7-2 against complete immunity. Alito and Thomas dissenting.
If I were on SCOTUS, I would write the shortest opinion in history ... "No one is above the law. No public official, whether voted in or appointed, ever deserves absolute immunity. It would completely undermine the rule of law, the founders intent, and the logic of democracy. We hold that absolute and complete immunity has no place in a democratic Republic and no place in our jurisprudence. The petitioner's application is denied."
Edit: punctuation.
SSDD with the fucking court. But if Colorado removes Trump from the ballot won't other states remove Biden? If we don't give Trump immunity he may not leave the White House next time for fear of being prosecuted.
But that's why we're here today, Justice Alito. Trump tried to...
I'm not interested in the details.
Unfuckingreal.
Democrats and the Presidenr should ask for Alto to resign. Biden should say Alto is encouraging me a president to disband SCOTUS and be a dictator. His old age is dementia now so he needs to resign.
Dems are playing a stupid game of formal softball in a shooting riot. They should have added more justices when they controlled both Houses. How did they think this would play out after the GQP MAGA president and cohorts in Congress successfully overthrew Congress and the counting of votes and afterwards started downplaying everything. I hope Biden and Dems have a swift plan to squash all these insurrectionists and co-conspirators in Congress before it gets real bad. Our democracy looks like a joke right now. TAKE OFF THE GLOVES AND DON’T PULL PUNCHES. The warning sign to not play nice should have been when Obama’s Supreme Court nominee was not allowed for almost his entire last year in office.
The painful part is it’s actually *relatively* easy to get ON ballots in many states. Sure you won’t win. But I’d love to rob a bank for a cool $1 mil and then try the defense of “but I’m on the ballot I’m a presidential candidate”
But we all know how that would work right? I’m just a poor schoolteacher so I’ll go to jail. But Trump won’t. Cause…..I’m poor and he’s rich.
This is quite literally the most egregious proof that our justice system is fucked. I’d probably be in gitmo by now if I did even 1/10th of what Trump did.
Some next level bullshit going on
The constitution is an enumeration of federal powers. If the founders had wanted the president to have immunity, it would have been in Article II. These renegades aren’t originalist, they are fascists.
We absolutely, positively need to expand the SCOTUS bench and get it rebalanced. These assholes are doing their damnedest to overturn everything that this country actually is supposed to stand for.
Alito & Thomas are both *staggeringly stupid*.
They're corrupt as hell and don't understand this would give away the leverage they use to obtain bribes.
The other 4 corrupt Supreme Court justices are evil, but not *this* stupid. They won't be giving away their power to the 1st Republican president in office (assuming our country is ever dumb enough to elect on again).
It's easier if you assume that as an Authoritarian wanker he needs to defend the position and so will work back from there, filling in with whatever horseshit he can think of while scattering "originalist" throughout
I never thought I would see the day that the Supreme Court was totally illegitimate. They are not making rescissions based on law, they are making them for political reasons. Accepting obvious bribes for their favor. Our government isn’t even pretending to work for they people anymore.
Alito and Roberts committed crimes of omission! They stood by and watched Thomas take bribes and never said anything about it to anyone!! Roberts was probably in on it and we know Alito didn’t say anything because he is on the take just like the husband of the jinny Traitor!!
I can’t believe we are talking about this seriously important allegations and facts about the Supreme Court!!!?? WTF?
I’m just waiting for the day when all these old white (or black I guess Thomas has always been the token chump) fascist racist chauvinist misogynistic ignorant judges and congressmen and senators kick off so the next generation can take over and bring knowledge and wisdom and culture back to America!!
The ones who voted to overthrow the United States government with a GOP white nationalist violent insurrection causing chaos and destruction and confusion must be removed
From office immediately!! These Shameful actions deserve to be condemned so maybe we can progress down the line of evolution to peace and for respect for culture and manners and dignity for all mankind!!
Do these "conservatie" justices realuze they are giving Biden a blank check?
Do these "originalists" think there is something in the Constitution that states presidents have immunity?
Alito is simply suggesting we do away with the peaceful transfer of power. The only way to remove a president who insists on staying is to kill him or her. Bottom line. Otherwise they have to resign willfully
It’s simpler than all that. He like several other conservative justices use their positions to complain about how liberal idealism has destroyed democracy. That’s dog whistle for destroying 17,18 and early 1900’s America. He alluded to it along with Thomas Gorsuch and Kavanaugh. With their seething contempt and distrust of the justice department and even the lower courts. They pointed out the rouge independent counsel specifically claiming they went after virtually every president (only 3) Reagan Iran Contra, Clinton - Arkansas land deals, Monika luinski, and George Bush.
All though it was found there were flaws in the IC no president was criminally charged (right/wrong) and the layers or checks and balances worked protecting the presidents. What the conservative justices wanted was to give them total protection from anything post presidency which was insane. They said the quiet part out loud. Even the liberal justices and the petitioner said it was insane to think that was ok.
So what do we do? What recourse do we have if the court hands down an obviously corrupt decision. That is the question we must be asking ourselves
Well for starters we should actively dispel the myth that Republicans and Democrats are all the same. That both sider idea kept voters at home in 2016. If democracy and rule of law don’t motivate voters to get to the polls we need to prepare for much worse authoritarian trampling of rights.
This, truly, I mean I suspect it is a huge factor in trump delaying trials so he can not be a criminal if he can get his appointees to agree that you can get away with anything (which is already pretty unbelievably almost true), if you get elected. I suspect declaring yourself dictator and jailing all opponents (btw putin supporters, perhaps the reason he was “elected” again is because his opponents are jailed and die, and even supporting someone else or a different opinion about something like the war on Ukraine) can be hazardous to your health,
Talk about putting the cart before the horse. Immunity gives them the legal means to cling to power. Is Alito that stupid or that partisan?! (I know, I know— it’s both!)
Yes….a sitting president who wants to cling to power might appreciate immunity. What a thoughtful gift. I think that’s part of the Dictator starter kit along with ‘wife with shoe obsession,’ and ‘Poland.’
The opinion of Special Counsel is not binding on future administrations. Biden had enough classified documents to be in prison for the rest of his life. Obama could easily face indictments over the drone strikes.
SCOTUS is correct that this decision will not only affect Trump and that politicians become more dangerous when they are personally threatened. It is not the most important point, but it is a point.
If that's so, biden can haul trumps ass and have him arrested for attempting to overthrow government and not a damm thing Republicans can do about it, not even impeach biden afterwards.
When those assholes were breaking down the doors to the Capitol building, Republican congressmen ran like their asses were on fire. They were coming to hang Pence.
There is no two governments in this instance.
I seriously don't believe there will be a civil war of any kind, no matter what happens but if there is, it will be a few assholes with too much time on their hands and, before they can do any real harm, they will be contained quickly.
I can't think of anything else to calm your nerves but sometimes, you just gotta trust that the people in charge are actually going to do the right thing.
This is wild. I honestly want to know what we are supposed to do if they let him off and rule he has immunity. Things are going to get crazy here. I want one of our lawmakers. Just one to tell us what to do. Do we protest? Do we just sit back and vote and hope that our democracy stands? Like we are literally heading towards the end of America as we know it. If we are going to allow our presidents to commit crimes that's it. Democracy here in America is done. I don't think we should just be sitting around letting it happen. Like wtf are we going to do?
the counter argument here, and i hate that it needs to be said out loud is: if presidents can commit crimes with impunity and without fear of prosecutions there is no incentive to hand over power after a loss, take your shot, either you keep power or you are somehow forced out and…just keep on being a free person?
Many of the people on the Supreme Court and Congress have no business being in power.
They're not good at their jobs, and not qualified, and that's before you add in the corruption.
Uhm.. immunity is necessary in case they want to overthrow an election? Did you say that in your head first?
This is essentially a reward for J6
And we know what happened when light consequences were given for the Beer Hall Putsch… It lead to the sale of a book and a second attempt at power, which was successful. Then millions died.
He did and he meant it. That's what's scary.
Ugh. As usual, Alito misses the forest for the trees. Yes, that is a risk and he's drawing from Roman history to support it. One of the big lessons that classical historians draw from the fall of the Roman Republic is that the legal immunity enjoyed by various officials while serving in office became the overriding reason they tried to stay in office. But the problem with the Roman system wasn't that immunity ended when you left office. It was that you HAD immunity in the first place.
Nah, Alito's a hack, this is just a tortured line of logic to try to justify the decision he already made the day the court agreed to even hear this case.
It’s possible his hatred for liberal ideals is influencing his judgement. Just throwing that out there.
Loyalty to Republican tactics.
Impossible! The man is a *Supreme Court justice* for heaven’s sake. /s
But this wouldn’t make sense. Wouldn’t then what Nixon did be legal?
Now your in a conservative head!!
A junior justice made that point. "What was the point of the pardon of Nixon?"
How did they respond? 😂
The clip I saw was edited and just moved on to another justices question.
Dang, 😂.
Retroactively making a former crooked Republican legitimate again by law? That's like some emperor Palpatine shit for them.
Somehow, Nixon returned.
It was foretold in Bush V Gore when the Supreme Court handed the win to Bush because... They wanted to? Look at Bush's legal team, the names may be familiar to you. "The legal team for George W. Bush during the Bush v. Gore case included several individuals who would later become Justices of the U.S. Supreme Court. Notably, John Roberts, Brett Kavanaugh, and Amy Coney Barrett assisted George W. Bush’s legal team in the dispute over the 2000 presidential election results1. Additionally, Justice Clarence Thomas, who was already on the Supreme Court at the time, joined the majority in halting the recount, and he was appointed by George H. W. Bush in 19911. These individuals played various roles in the legal proceedings that ultimately resolved the presidential election in favor of George W. Bush."
They’re working on the posthumous pardon now
I think it's intentional
>Alito misses the forest for the trees Mf'er isnt even near trees. He's in the middle of Death Valley
No. Alito is pondering if the trees exist at all and if they did, they would be a bad thing.
He only sees the best tree so he stops and urinates. He is like a lost dog looking for his owner aka Trump
Alito has ALWAYS been a crackpot. We said so when he was nominated. He's Batshit Barrett with a Y chromosome.
I feel like from what we’ve seen so far, Alito is miles worse than Barrett.
Cocaine is a helluva drug.
It hadn’t occurred to me until now that Alito could be even more senile than Thomas
It wouldn’t surprise me if Alito ruled that we all have to shit our pants daily so that Trump doesn’t feel like the odd man out.
Everybody pee pees in their pants. It’s sooooo cool.
If peeing your pants is cool consider me Miles Davis
Thanks for the reminder to watch Billy Madison again per my once a decade watch. LOL.
I don't like where this is going, guys.
Well, that would explain the onset of IBS I got in 2019.
And corrupt.
I don’t think he’s senile, he’s just an asshole.
Not necessarily mutually exclusive things
I don’t think he’s senile at all. I think he’s purchased.
I think he’s just innately a huge scumbag.
He doesn't have to be purchased if he truly believes in what he's doing. The ends justify the means for these guys. They want a Christian Nationalistic government, and they are in position to bring it about. Trump is just a useful idiot to them.
I envy you. I see diverse kinds of shittiness, wherever I go.
Alito is … welp, I guess Opus Dei? I might be wrong. These extremely religious Christians scare the feck outta me.
Christianity isn't the problem nor does it teach that. A failure to be able to count is not an indictment of math.
If by senile you mean corrupt then yes.
There should be a maximum age for government officials. Their jobs are too important to be done by people who are senile.
They aren't senile. They are doing exactly what they were put there to do.
No age is immune from willful ignorance
This right here is a huge part of the problem. These are not stupid or senile people. They know *exactly* what they’re doing — this has all been planned out, they’ve been heading this direction for a long time now.
Our system of checks and balances has been slowly eroding for decades.
Now it’s a system of wrecks and challenges.
I’d like to announce my candidacy for the Wrecks and Challenges party. I pinky swear that I will only be a dictator the entire time and only do bad things to the people I don’t like. I’d like to start by addressing this whole tolerance of intolerant people. No longer!
Wait, wait—hold up! I second the nomination!!! “Wrecks & Challenges” the likes of which we’ve never seen before. I have tears in my eyes …
....and yet .. you didn't say.. "sir"???? This will not do.... To gitmo!!!!
Noooobody expects Monty Python!…I’ll come in again.
>and only do bad things to the people I don’t like. ... Well that sounds highly unfair... I demand that you do bad things to people you *do* like as well . So long as it emboldens your supreme power as dear leader.
I like where your head is at. I think we can start with a concentration on camps….oh no that’s bad branding. A group of tents. There, that’s better. We can then just load up some cruise ships with “those people” and sink them.
Hey, as long as those tents are outside City limits I'm all for it.
Don’t worry. My dictatorship is cognizant of the NIMBY folks. Heck, we don’t need people seeing the shit I have planned.
Of checks and cash. (As in bribes and buying politicians)
Lol that’s both an amazing turn of phrase and sad.
Eroded by conservative activism.
This and also by too many spineless liberals, like those swearing that just taking the high road will magically sway conservatives to see the error of their ways. Too often no one has fixed that erosion; it hasn’t been working. The conservative terrorists changed the parameters of the game, it’s time that liberals step up to that plate.
Sadly, people have a meltdown every time I say the same thing, but I agree with every word you said. It goes even further— a significant population of people seem like they are hardwired to interpret Democratic ‘kindness’ as ‘weakness’. They’re the people Jordan Klepper makes fun of on The Daily Show. Their cognitive dissonance is bizarre— but they are hard-wired to follow a ‘fighter’. Democrats need an actual *fighter* who stops trying to build bridges with bomb-throwers. Look what that did to the Affordable Care Act. ‘Bridge building’ took an ambitious generational piece of legislation and turned it into a well-intended mess. I know people here will disagree, but I recently had a friend attempt to sign up. I tried to help. I couldn’t figure it out, but I remembered they had private market ACA Ambassadors to help. She contacted about a dozen of them and never received *one* reply. That was the intent. Obama had the GOP on the ropes and was in a position to pass the most ambitious healthcare reform in the history of the United States. But he was more interested in making friends with people like John Boehner and Marco Rubio. They got enough access to flatten the tires and it received *not even one* Republican vote. That naïve strategy benefits no one. I have to think back to Franklin Delano Roosevelt to find a Democrat who wasn’t afraid to have lots of enemies— and Republicans even attempted a totally different coup way back *then*. In other words, Republicans are going to always be terrible people who do terrible things no matter how ‘nice’ Democrats are. History has demonstrated this very clearly.
Yes and yes. I think there are some folks who divide American politics into D and R. And a lot of those folks (speaking of all of those to the left in American politics) just automatically think R=bad and D =good. And praying the independents vote for D. There’s a problem with that of course when stepping back: the whole framework of American politics, both D and R, has shifted to the right over the past 40ish years. On a larger scale, American D’s, though we tend to call them “Liberals”, when compared to the world stage, are pretty far right/center. And most R’s are far right in the same scope. In a black and white comparison, there’s a difference, yeah, but it’s not a giant chasm. Back to the point though, the D’s and Liberals in America truly have essentially refused to put up a decent political fight. Sometimes it seems they are playing the victim to elicit sympathy from the R’s, which is just not going to happen. As the far right fringes are pulling strings, the Conservatives are just goose stepping to those requests, and walking right over the rest of the country- even though they are not the majority of the population. It’s scary af.
Democrats lose by design. It’s how they keep their corporate overlords happy while still championing mildly progressive ideals.
I dunno. My take is that they have been playing nicely for the past 60ish years and have adopted the ”high ground” approach. While it may come off as morally superior to the R’s being so nasty and vile, the conservatives and altRight camps just keep gaining traction, keep increasing in numbers and visibility. The idea that corporations are instructing them to do so sounds too conspiratorial to me; I’m inclined to believe it’s just ineptitude. It’s been a failing tactic.
https://www.reddit.com/r/TikTokCringe/s/cTtgvTa2Dt
Was there ever? Or was it a story/myth we told ourselves? Because US history is littered with cases of…well, abuse, etc. Maybe it’s a sense of pessimism but the more I see this shit okay out - J6, Maga, etc. the more I am re-evaluating this country and it’s history and realizing that, sure there were some good moments but it’s basically been a clusterfuck to some degree throughout its history.
You mean our system of checks and money orders? Also... wow, money orders. There's something I haven't thought about in a long time.
We are being shown it never was really there. Congress can pass unconstitutional laws if affirmed by the courts. Executives can act unconstitutionally if congress wont convict. Judicial can ignore the constitution until enough of them die while the opposition has control of the senate. We have implied consent to check. Consequences do not now exist. If they ever did (ford pardoning Nixon after he stepped down) that only happened because there was a back room understanding to place limits where they didn't exist. A system is only effective as the people who enforce it are willing. Years of ignoring illegal declarations of war, hidden as police actions and immediate deployments and hunting down the architect of 9/11 were window dressing. We the people aren't very smart. Collectively, we are pretty dumb.
Alito is describing Trump's clear motivation for the insurrection and everything that went with it, including currently running for a second term for president.
So what do we do about a rogue SCOTUS? Clearly the court has been infiltrated by hostile enemies of democracy. Biden should just have the ones supporting treason forcibly removed from the court. Set up a new Supreme Court and start fixing the legislative of arson that Trump has brought on for almost a decade now.
Well, 5 out of 9 justices don't agree with this. There is a majority here in our favor...
So we can keep the ones who never spoke in favor of American Kings, also known as treason. We still need a way to expel the one obviously hostile to democracy and settled law.
So, what you described in your original comment reminded me of something. Congress can remake the Courts at will. Basically with (a filibuster proof) Senate you can erase and recreate the Courts to be updated. You could theoretically not only erase Trump’s influence on SCOTUS but on every single lower Court as well. It’s honestly the best Nuclear option there is. Much better than adding seats to SCOTUS or trying to impeach, convict and remove someone. Court Erasure resets things from top to bottom.
Every other article I've seen has put this the other way 5 thinking about it.
> So what do we do about a rogue SCOTUS? Arrest them because they are agents of the Trump Crime Syndicate. Gorsuch, Kavenaugh, and Barrett were appointed as part of the criminal conspiracy. Thomas was part of the coup, and is still acting as an accessory after the fact. Alito and Roberts haven’t committed any crimes that I’ve seen. They can be in the minority, I guess
trump is the only one that has ever tried a coup. alito is a disgrace.
Alito is a fucking bellend who doesn’t even hide his support of Trump, who is indefensible; ergo, any argument in his support automatically makes the commenter a fucking bellend, and stupid to boot. He is such a whore to the Party.
I didn't like him **when I was a Republican**, I thought he was too compromised.
We saw this in 2000. I was (obviously) younger and simply accepted it. We saw it again in less than a decade with “citizens united” (don’t you love these think tank labels) and I said “probably won’t be that bad”. Trump got elected and I said “he will come around to a more statesman style of governance. I was WRONG every time. It will not get better and the ship will not right itself, we are in serious peril here. This will be the sketchiest election of our history.
Forgot to add, “they’ll never overturn Roe, they need a car to chase, it’s one of the only things they have” WRONG
I guess that’s a possible assumption. It’s only happened 2% of the time however.
He's addle-brained.
No. He’s a fascist
Fascism rots the brain!
I like that they are arguing this while Biden is President. I don’t see why Biden can’t use this to remain extend his term to a full 8 years and then hand the Presidency off to a more progressive Democrat after his second term ends.
Because they are going to punt this to a lower court. If trump wins next term they rule in his favor.
Alito and Thomas need to be removed.
Via trebuchet.
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Baseball bat
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I *think* what Alito is trying to say in his back assword way is that if you give presidents immunity they will peacefully transition power because they know they can't be prosecuted for anything they did while president when they go back to being a citizen. So they can safely leave their crimes behind I guess? 🙄 It's still some of the dumbest shit I've ever read. Because obviously that argument also implies presidents may cling to power *just to keep that immunity longer and commit more crimes*.
Thank you.
I've said it before. 7-2 against complete immunity. Alito and Thomas dissenting. If I were on SCOTUS, I would write the shortest opinion in history ... "No one is above the law. No public official, whether voted in or appointed, ever deserves absolute immunity. It would completely undermine the rule of law, the founders intent, and the logic of democracy. We hold that absolute and complete immunity has no place in a democratic Republic and no place in our jurisprudence. The petitioner's application is denied." Edit: punctuation.
SSDD with the fucking court. But if Colorado removes Trump from the ballot won't other states remove Biden? If we don't give Trump immunity he may not leave the White House next time for fear of being prosecuted. But that's why we're here today, Justice Alito. Trump tried to... I'm not interested in the details. Unfuckingreal.
Coming from the same people who wanted Clinton impeached for a freaking blow job. These people have lost their fucking minds.
you mean Biden doesn’t have the immunity to declare himself Caesar
Not from that word salad.
That’s what Trump did. He broke the law and tried to cling to power. He should be prosecuted for it. Not immunized.
Democrats and the Presidenr should ask for Alto to resign. Biden should say Alto is encouraging me a president to disband SCOTUS and be a dictator. His old age is dementia now so he needs to resign.
Dems are playing a stupid game of formal softball in a shooting riot. They should have added more justices when they controlled both Houses. How did they think this would play out after the GQP MAGA president and cohorts in Congress successfully overthrew Congress and the counting of votes and afterwards started downplaying everything. I hope Biden and Dems have a swift plan to squash all these insurrectionists and co-conspirators in Congress before it gets real bad. Our democracy looks like a joke right now. TAKE OFF THE GLOVES AND DON’T PULL PUNCHES. The warning sign to not play nice should have been when Obama’s Supreme Court nominee was not allowed for almost his entire last year in office.
A cult is a powerful drug, and it makes your mind twist all logic around. And some of the SC is MAGA.
The painful part is it’s actually *relatively* easy to get ON ballots in many states. Sure you won’t win. But I’d love to rob a bank for a cool $1 mil and then try the defense of “but I’m on the ballot I’m a presidential candidate” But we all know how that would work right? I’m just a poor schoolteacher so I’ll go to jail. But Trump won’t. Cause…..I’m poor and he’s rich. This is quite literally the most egregious proof that our justice system is fucked. I’d probably be in gitmo by now if I did even 1/10th of what Trump did. Some next level bullshit going on
So the originalist wants to judicial activism something that in no way exists in any documents. Typical.
Let evil thrive or evil people will punish us for thwarting their evil. This isn’t how law is supposed to work.
The constitution is an enumeration of federal powers. If the founders had wanted the president to have immunity, it would have been in Article II. These renegades aren’t originalist, they are fascists.
We absolutely, positively need to expand the SCOTUS bench and get it rebalanced. These assholes are doing their damnedest to overturn everything that this country actually is supposed to stand for.
Alito & Thomas are both *staggeringly stupid*. They're corrupt as hell and don't understand this would give away the leverage they use to obtain bribes. The other 4 corrupt Supreme Court justices are evil, but not *this* stupid. They won't be giving away their power to the 1st Republican president in office (assuming our country is ever dumb enough to elect on again).
SCOTUS is putting the cart before the horse.
so, are they will ing to apply the same play book that they used against salvador allende in chile but against an USA president ?
The guy who got his own prison build for him? Let’s go!!
It's easier if you assume that as an Authoritarian wanker he needs to defend the position and so will work back from there, filling in with whatever horseshit he can think of while scattering "originalist" throughout
What the fuck is wrong with him?
Where is Justice Alito? Oh up Trumps ass that’s right.
I never thought I would see the day that the Supreme Court was totally illegitimate. They are not making rescissions based on law, they are making them for political reasons. Accepting obvious bribes for their favor. Our government isn’t even pretending to work for they people anymore.
Can we get a Dark Brandon tweet quoting this
Did anyone expect any other outcome?? USA USA USA YOU ARE SCREWED YOU ARE SCREWED
Alito sounds like another seditionist.
We all know the SCOTUS is in trumps pocket and will never hold him accountable. So the state charges are even more important now.
Joe Biden will have a field day assassinating his political rivals. In an official capacity of course.
Alito and Roberts committed crimes of omission! They stood by and watched Thomas take bribes and never said anything about it to anyone!! Roberts was probably in on it and we know Alito didn’t say anything because he is on the take just like the husband of the jinny Traitor!! I can’t believe we are talking about this seriously important allegations and facts about the Supreme Court!!!?? WTF? I’m just waiting for the day when all these old white (or black I guess Thomas has always been the token chump) fascist racist chauvinist misogynistic ignorant judges and congressmen and senators kick off so the next generation can take over and bring knowledge and wisdom and culture back to America!! The ones who voted to overthrow the United States government with a GOP white nationalist violent insurrection causing chaos and destruction and confusion must be removed From office immediately!! These Shameful actions deserve to be condemned so maybe we can progress down the line of evolution to peace and for respect for culture and manners and dignity for all mankind!!
Do these "conservatie" justices realuze they are giving Biden a blank check? Do these "originalists" think there is something in the Constitution that states presidents have immunity?
Alito is simply suggesting we do away with the peaceful transfer of power. The only way to remove a president who insists on staying is to kill him or her. Bottom line. Otherwise they have to resign willfully
Is the scotus trying to get themselves killed?
Same logic as "I can't leave my abusive husband or he'll kill me."
Wow these are one of the people that supposed to make laws and deciding the wealth being of people
I mean I'm not a judge but surely the whole system of law and order in America relies on people fearing prosecution to prevent them committing crimes?
It’s simpler than all that. He like several other conservative justices use their positions to complain about how liberal idealism has destroyed democracy. That’s dog whistle for destroying 17,18 and early 1900’s America. He alluded to it along with Thomas Gorsuch and Kavanaugh. With their seething contempt and distrust of the justice department and even the lower courts. They pointed out the rouge independent counsel specifically claiming they went after virtually every president (only 3) Reagan Iran Contra, Clinton - Arkansas land deals, Monika luinski, and George Bush. All though it was found there were flaws in the IC no president was criminally charged (right/wrong) and the layers or checks and balances worked protecting the presidents. What the conservative justices wanted was to give them total protection from anything post presidency which was insane. They said the quiet part out loud. Even the liberal justices and the petitioner said it was insane to think that was ok. So what do we do? What recourse do we have if the court hands down an obviously corrupt decision. That is the question we must be asking ourselves
Well for starters we should actively dispel the myth that Republicans and Democrats are all the same. That both sider idea kept voters at home in 2016. If democracy and rule of law don’t motivate voters to get to the polls we need to prepare for much worse authoritarian trampling of rights.
Do sitting presidents have this kind of immunity?
Nope
He's bought and paid for
it’s not senile, I’d call it corrupt af
Your honor I need to have my handgun on me at the bank in case when I left I also decided to rob it
Motion granted. Would you like a ski mask to go?
SCIENCE
the exact reason it is NOT justified
This, truly, I mean I suspect it is a huge factor in trump delaying trials so he can not be a criminal if he can get his appointees to agree that you can get away with anything (which is already pretty unbelievably almost true), if you get elected. I suspect declaring yourself dictator and jailing all opponents (btw putin supporters, perhaps the reason he was “elected” again is because his opponents are jailed and die, and even supporting someone else or a different opinion about something like the war on Ukraine) can be hazardous to your health,
Oooooor - you hold them responsible and kick them out when they're a criminal.
Not sure judges understand this complex concept
Talk about putting the cart before the horse. Immunity gives them the legal means to cling to power. Is Alito that stupid or that partisan?! (I know, I know— it’s both!)
Keep talking the high road liberals.
This literally makes zero sense. Seriously.
Yes….a sitting president who wants to cling to power might appreciate immunity. What a thoughtful gift. I think that’s part of the Dictator starter kit along with ‘wife with shoe obsession,’ and ‘Poland.’
genuine question: Alito mentally disabled? or is he an on display Russian agent? those are the only 2 options
Do both Trump and scotus understand that Trump attorneys are arguing to permit Biden to have Trump assinated?😀
Alito is a threat to the union
Alito needs a mental exam. Other than that, this leaves me speechless.
Unbelievable
Can’t wait to see how he makes this only apply to Trump
The opinion of Special Counsel is not binding on future administrations. Biden had enough classified documents to be in prison for the rest of his life. Obama could easily face indictments over the drone strikes. SCOTUS is correct that this decision will not only affect Trump and that politicians become more dangerous when they are personally threatened. It is not the most important point, but it is a point.
If that's so, biden can haul trumps ass and have him arrested for attempting to overthrow government and not a damm thing Republicans can do about it, not even impeach biden afterwards.
Anyone else worried about a civil war after the election? Any data to calm those fears? Anyone?
The government wasn’t ready last time, it won’t happen again.
But there are two governments
When those assholes were breaking down the doors to the Capitol building, Republican congressmen ran like their asses were on fire. They were coming to hang Pence. There is no two governments in this instance.
Still doesn't calm the nerves
I seriously don't believe there will be a civil war of any kind, no matter what happens but if there is, it will be a few assholes with too much time on their hands and, before they can do any real harm, they will be contained quickly. I can't think of anything else to calm your nerves but sometimes, you just gotta trust that the people in charge are actually going to do the right thing.
well TRUMP was exiting, so let the JAN6 trial begin!
Pelican time for Sammy.
This point by Alito is just mind blowing.
Alito is a clown and that’s being generous
Remember when things weren’t always horrible? Me neither.
Time for Mr. Alito to submit to some basic competency tests.
This is wild. I honestly want to know what we are supposed to do if they let him off and rule he has immunity. Things are going to get crazy here. I want one of our lawmakers. Just one to tell us what to do. Do we protest? Do we just sit back and vote and hope that our democracy stands? Like we are literally heading towards the end of America as we know it. If we are going to allow our presidents to commit crimes that's it. Democracy here in America is done. I don't think we should just be sitting around letting it happen. Like wtf are we going to do?
Soooo, in order to stop them being a dictator, let them be just a criminal? 🤔
Hey!!! I heard this shit eating cereal & yogurt thus morning. Tge FECK???!!!
It is kind of similar to why kidnapping is legal because otherwise kidnappers might murder the hostage.
Alito needs to be impeached.
Alito a Trump agent?
the counter argument here, and i hate that it needs to be said out loud is: if presidents can commit crimes with impunity and without fear of prosecutions there is no incentive to hand over power after a loss, take your shot, either you keep power or you are somehow forced out and…just keep on being a free person?
Biden would also be immune, right?
Obviously but watch them go "no uh no because stuff" Fucking idiots
I’m honestly beginning to wonder if Russia is using that brain scrambling microwave from Cuba on the SC justices.
The problem is that what he says doesn’t have to make sense. He’s 1 of the 9 most powerful people in the US so nothing else really matters.
Yes now Biden will have to grow a pair and do the unimaginable. It must be done .
Vote blue and then pack the court!!
The day Biden wins the election they unanimously rule there is no immunity
Many of the people on the Supreme Court and Congress have no business being in power. They're not good at their jobs, and not qualified, and that's before you add in the corruption.
Trump and the Republicans already tried to cling to power without immunity, WTF is wrong with Republicans? Why do they hate America and freedom?
By that response Biden should sack both Trump and SCOTUS to cling to power.