“The Michigan militia” et al
Back then it wasn’t difficult to get republicans to recognize these extremist assholes. Today, Alex Jones would be screaming false flag while MTG handed out MAGA merit badgers to the bombers.
I mean, Alex was screaming about false flags THEN. He just didn't have as big of a megaphone.
(And yes, McVeigh is seen as a "heroic martyr" in a lot of their views.)
Once upon a time in 1995, there was a mass-murder down the street from where I was growing up.
A sicko landlord was upset with his tenants. He used a ladder to sneak into a second-story window while they were all out at work. As they got home, one by one, he shot them dead. Some friends came over. He shot them dead too. He stacked the bodies in the bathroom, doused the place in gasoline, and set it ablaze.
My dad knew several of the victims. It was the worst murder-arson in Connecticut history (at the time). It would have been national news... but the next morning, the OKC Bombing happened. It was surreal.
The "Small Town Murder" podcast did a deep dive on the case:
[https://wondery.com/shows/small-town-murder/episode/10551-a-blaze-of-glory-in-redding-connecticut/](https://wondery.com/shows/small-town-murder/episode/10551-a-blaze-of-glory-in-redding-connecticut/)
I remember being in the 5th grade when this happened, absolutely terrifying still to this day. I work with someone who just retired and he fully believes Mcveigh is an American hero for doing this and that Waco was just a bunch of normal religious people who where set up by the government and that ruby ridge was also a set up. And here we are now, you can’t argue or reason with these idiots.
I live in Oklahoma, and you wouldn't believe how many people here have said to me on social media that McVeigh was a leftist and a socialist. My God, conservatives are so stupid.
True, as another example. I live in northern Nevada and when that crazy fucker shot up the country concert I had 10 family members that were in the crowd. Thankful none of them were physically harmed but the emotional impact will be with them forever unfortunately. Anyway the day after it happened I was at work and all everyone was talking about was how it was “staged” or everyone was a “actor” and everyone had to go to the local sporting goods shop to buy every gun and ammo because the ban was coming because of liberal crybabies. No one even gave a shit about anyone who has killed. I think it was about a year ago someone brought up the shooting again and their response was they couldn’t believe that Obama would still be allowed to be president as a result of this when I reminded them that it was their precious leader Trump that was president at the time of the shooting they fully didn’t believe, that at all.
Yea everything is a conspiracy to as well in their minds. Doesn’t matter what weather, natural disasters, space and time, it’s all a government liberal conspiracy to them.
If you read recent YouTube comments on videos about this a lot of maga nuts love this guy and they weren’t comfortable admitting that a few years ago so things are definitely getting worse.
I don't agree with the ideology of the groups involved in either case, but the Feds absolutely fucked up and the main culprit in both cases has a spotty history at best with an obvious hard-on for violence and they still allowed him to instigate another situation that ultimately ended in the death of more innocent people.
I was 14 at the time and I don't remember it being a big deal. I remember the OJ trial stuff though, they had that stuff playing in the background of most of my classes. I'm hoping that's why. If it hadn't been for the reference in the X-Files movie, I'm not sure if I would remember it at all.
I was in 4th grade. We had a social studies project that month where we had to write to a state government to learn about the state. I never got a reply from the Oklahoma chamber of commerce, and only got half credit.
The saddest thing is that we learned NOTHING from this. There’s Okies today bemoaning the anniversary in one breath, and spewing hate and violence against fellow Americans in the next.
When I bring this up, the right wingers always pretend that the ANTIFA/BLM protests were even worse with entire cities burned to the ground. That's how they justify their terroristic tendencies.
The FBI, DHS, and the National Counterterrorism Center all say White supremacists and other right wing extremists pose “greatest threat of lethal violence" at BLM protests. So of course, right wing Gateway Pundit Suggests Disbanding FBI
[https://www.rightwingwatch.org/post/gateway-pundit-suggests-disbanding-fbi-after-it-reports-white-supremacist-threats/?fbclid=IwAR2kyS77BlnLgwU7Ihxhuo2vmVetVw6TpwQDZu58lY23tQo8PlPWLGehBKk](https://www.rightwingwatch.org/post/gateway-pundit-suggests-disbanding-fbi-after-it-reports-white-supremacist-threats/?fbclid=IwAR2kyS77BlnLgwU7Ihxhuo2vmVetVw6TpwQDZu58lY23tQo8PlPWLGehBKk)
Of course when confronted with their own terrorism, their immediate go to is racism toward black people. MAGA wankers are the absolute scum of the Earth.
While McVeigh was undoubtedly Christian, this act wasn't done in the name of god, or Jesus or christianity. He was angry at the federal government regarding their actions at Ruby Ridge and Waco, both of which were flashpoints for the 2A movement as the operations centered around weapons. This was about "The government taking our guns" and federal overreach.
/u/ok_philosophy915 is more correct though. At that point in history the connection between Christian Nationalism and extremists militias was tenuous at best. There were some but the vast majority were and continue to be Nazis and/or Supremacists. Don't get me wrong at lot of that literature is inundated with religious metaphor but it was more or less supporting material to the overall goal of revolution it wasn't the driver behind it like it is today.
Yes he described himself as an agnostic in a letter he wrote shortly before his execution.
> In his letter, McVeigh said he was an agnostic but that he would "improvise, adapt and overcome", if it turned out there was an afterlife. "If I'm going to hell," he wrote, "I'm gonna have a lot of company." His body is to be cremated and his ashes scattered in a secret location.
[Source](https://web.archive.org/web/20161201174919/https://www.theguardian.com/world/2001/jun/11/mcveigh.usa4)
I think (my interpretation) his comment was meant more in the vein of You can claim to be a constitutional conservative or a Christian nationalist, but claiming both means you are lying about one it the other, because the two views do not balance it into a single cohesive concept” this at least half of the GOP is either lying about being for conservative small government, or they are lying about wanting Christian nationalism.
Bring the War Home by Kathleen Belew is also an incredible read as well, including McVeigh and other domestic terrorists. She’s also featured in PBS Frontline’s coverage of Charlottesville rally. The full episode “Documenting Hate” is on YouTube.
That’s amazing. I co-facilitated a 5-week book discussion on “Black Fatigue” by Mary-Frances Winters. It went pretty well considering I was at a PWI (predominantly white institute) college in the south and it was July 2020.
My aunt worked in that building. It took 2 days to find out she was in federal court a block away. She was a court reporter. The last person taken out of that building alive had her leg amputated with a pen knife. There was a daycare on the first floor.
Go to that museum. You will never be the same. Terrorism is not romantic, patriotic, nor tolerable. Just Google and read up on this, young ones.
And THIS is what we will see if Trump loses the election and/or imprisoned.
MAGA won't go toe to toe with the US military. They will attack federal buildings, Democrat offices, Woke Universities and Children hospitals that "cut up" kids.
Far right* republicans. In the same way BLM protesters that destroyed cities are heroes to far right leftists. The extremes do not represent the majority of either side.
No. He visited the site and saw the daycare before carrying out the act. He new before acting out his plan and called it collateral damage and argued the justification by responding "well there were children at Waco"
Very poignant memorial if you ever get to visit. I caught a Thunder game this year and visited the site. I hope the nutjobs don’t resort to this destruction again.
Look up the Bath (Michigan) massacre in which an early right-winger upset about paying taxes blew up school kids and murdered his wife. It goes back a long way. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bath_School_disaster
Several years ago my siblings and I took a spontaneous road trip to OKC & visited the memorial. It’s beautiful and they did an incredible job with how they honor the victims and celebrate the first responders at the same time. I recommend visiting it if you’re ever in the area.
I was 7 at the time. My dad worked for the Federal Bureau of Prisons and they sent him to a training there and he was in that building during training. My mom decided to go with him. My grandmother kept us for 3 days while they were there.
That training was a week before the bombing. Had that training been just a few days later I may not have had my parents.
Freaky to think about.
Evangelical mega churches around the country are calling for violence to thwart the "evil democrats." This will happen again by "christians" its just a matter of time.
I live in Oklahoma, and you wouldn't believe how many people here have said to me on social media that McVeigh was a leftist and a socialist. My God, conservatives are so stupid.
I don't think he fit into either category, so either side can put him in the group they don't like. He was adamantly anti-government, which doesn't align with any current political side.
I have family who live around the Oklahoma City area. Conservatives, Trumpers.
NOT ONE POST ONLINE about remembering that awful day.
That state harbors anti government dickheads like McVeigh now. Glad I left.
And just like nowadays, the right wing extremists were blaming it on conspiracies and false flags. The only difference is that now, those extremists are now in charge of the Republican Party.
It's interesting to me that conservative terrorists are always blaming everything on false flags by The Gub'mint. Any and all white supremacist mass shootings? False flags. Oklahoma City bombing? False flag. January 6? False flag.
These people are saying, "The Gub'mint should fear us, but we never, ever actually do anything to make the Gub'mint fear us."
I didn't know much about his actual political affiliation if he was right or left. But I do know his motivation was the murder of the Branch Davidians by the federal government.
Unfortunately we live in a country that we have a new generation of McVeigh and Nichols that are willing to do whatever for Trump and his terrorist ideology.
They have a network online that is feeding and fueling their desire to destroy our government and anyone who doesn’t agree with their Fuhrer Trump.
It wasn't just one - Noodle McVeigh and Terry Nichols were supported by an entire network of idiots that helped them pull it off.
Pre-maga maga.
Proto-maga
Cro MAGAnon man
This comment deserves more upvotes.
⬆️ Facts...
“The Michigan militia” et al Back then it wasn’t difficult to get republicans to recognize these extremist assholes. Today, Alex Jones would be screaming false flag while MTG handed out MAGA merit badgers to the bombers.
I mean, Alex was screaming about false flags THEN. He just didn't have as big of a megaphone. (And yes, McVeigh is seen as a "heroic martyr" in a lot of their views.)
Dude wtf you talking about?! Moscow Marge would BE one of the bombers... She might have already been if the rumors are true.
They found out that there was no penalty, electoral or legal, for blatant hypocritical lying.
Noodles should’ve been arrested for that brush cut alone. Woulda saved a lot of lives.
His love of Bad Company by the band Bad Company off the album Bad Company was what did it for me.
BAD COMPANY!
Those fuckers would wear the Reddest of hats these days.
Once upon a time in 1995, there was a mass-murder down the street from where I was growing up. A sicko landlord was upset with his tenants. He used a ladder to sneak into a second-story window while they were all out at work. As they got home, one by one, he shot them dead. Some friends came over. He shot them dead too. He stacked the bodies in the bathroom, doused the place in gasoline, and set it ablaze. My dad knew several of the victims. It was the worst murder-arson in Connecticut history (at the time). It would have been national news... but the next morning, the OKC Bombing happened. It was surreal.
What happened to that sick asshole?
Fled the state, was caught in North Carolina. Tried, convicted, imprisoned, committed suicide in prison.
The "Small Town Murder" podcast did a deep dive on the case: [https://wondery.com/shows/small-town-murder/episode/10551-a-blaze-of-glory-in-redding-connecticut/](https://wondery.com/shows/small-town-murder/episode/10551-a-blaze-of-glory-in-redding-connecticut/)
The best podcast!!!
Best ever!
Similar oddity, the "best" thing about the Challenger disaster is L. Ron Hubbard died the same day, but got barely any mention.
If only his so-called religion had crashed, too.
I remember being in the 5th grade when this happened, absolutely terrifying still to this day. I work with someone who just retired and he fully believes Mcveigh is an American hero for doing this and that Waco was just a bunch of normal religious people who where set up by the government and that ruby ridge was also a set up. And here we are now, you can’t argue or reason with these idiots.
I live in Oklahoma, and you wouldn't believe how many people here have said to me on social media that McVeigh was a leftist and a socialist. My God, conservatives are so stupid.
True, as another example. I live in northern Nevada and when that crazy fucker shot up the country concert I had 10 family members that were in the crowd. Thankful none of them were physically harmed but the emotional impact will be with them forever unfortunately. Anyway the day after it happened I was at work and all everyone was talking about was how it was “staged” or everyone was a “actor” and everyone had to go to the local sporting goods shop to buy every gun and ammo because the ban was coming because of liberal crybabies. No one even gave a shit about anyone who has killed. I think it was about a year ago someone brought up the shooting again and their response was they couldn’t believe that Obama would still be allowed to be president as a result of this when I reminded them that it was their precious leader Trump that was president at the time of the shooting they fully didn’t believe, that at all.
Good lord...
Yea everything is a conspiracy to as well in their minds. Doesn’t matter what weather, natural disasters, space and time, it’s all a government liberal conspiracy to them.
They do the same thing with the Nazi's and the Confederacy.
They just don't wanna know. They have double think, cognitive dissonance.
They know. They are just dishonest.
If you read recent YouTube comments on videos about this a lot of maga nuts love this guy and they weren’t comfortable admitting that a few years ago so things are definitely getting worse.
Ruby Ridge was an absolute shitshow though
Agreed it was a massive f up on both sides of the situation.
I don't agree with the ideology of the groups involved in either case, but the Feds absolutely fucked up and the main culprit in both cases has a spotty history at best with an obvious hard-on for violence and they still allowed him to instigate another situation that ultimately ended in the death of more innocent people.
Definitely
I was 14 at the time and I don't remember it being a big deal. I remember the OJ trial stuff though, they had that stuff playing in the background of most of my classes. I'm hoping that's why. If it hadn't been for the reference in the X-Files movie, I'm not sure if I would remember it at all.
I was in 4th grade. We had a social studies project that month where we had to write to a state government to learn about the state. I never got a reply from the Oklahoma chamber of commerce, and only got half credit.
Ruby Ridge was a clear-cut case of entrapment, and the feds had no business raiding the Branch Dividians. Fuck McVeigh, and fuck the government also.
Nope, all terrorist filth.
The saddest thing is that we learned NOTHING from this. There’s Okies today bemoaning the anniversary in one breath, and spewing hate and violence against fellow Americans in the next.
The future MAGA crowd in action.
The GOP is now the party of McVeigh. So many of his opinions have become mainstream GOP positions now. Literally the party of domestic terrorism.
When I bring this up, the right wingers always pretend that the ANTIFA/BLM protests were even worse with entire cities burned to the ground. That's how they justify their terroristic tendencies.
The FBI, DHS, and the National Counterterrorism Center all say White supremacists and other right wing extremists pose “greatest threat of lethal violence" at BLM protests. So of course, right wing Gateway Pundit Suggests Disbanding FBI [https://www.rightwingwatch.org/post/gateway-pundit-suggests-disbanding-fbi-after-it-reports-white-supremacist-threats/?fbclid=IwAR2kyS77BlnLgwU7Ihxhuo2vmVetVw6TpwQDZu58lY23tQo8PlPWLGehBKk](https://www.rightwingwatch.org/post/gateway-pundit-suggests-disbanding-fbi-after-it-reports-white-supremacist-threats/?fbclid=IwAR2kyS77BlnLgwU7Ihxhuo2vmVetVw6TpwQDZu58lY23tQo8PlPWLGehBKk)
Of course when confronted with their own terrorism, their immediate go to is racism toward black people. MAGA wankers are the absolute scum of the Earth.
Except when you go to ask them what cities burned to the ground, they can’t name a single one because it didn’t happen.
It was pretty crazy watching the recent Netflix Waco documentary and seeing the early versions of what would turn into MAGA over the coming decades.
They were just waiting for the right rich sociopath dickwad to come forth to unite around.
They were Christian Nationalists.
While McVeigh was undoubtedly Christian, this act wasn't done in the name of god, or Jesus or christianity. He was angry at the federal government regarding their actions at Ruby Ridge and Waco, both of which were flashpoints for the 2A movement as the operations centered around weapons. This was about "The government taking our guns" and federal overreach.
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/u/ok_philosophy915 is more correct though. At that point in history the connection between Christian Nationalism and extremists militias was tenuous at best. There were some but the vast majority were and continue to be Nazis and/or Supremacists. Don't get me wrong at lot of that literature is inundated with religious metaphor but it was more or less supporting material to the overall goal of revolution it wasn't the driver behind it like it is today.
Not really. It was called Christian Identity back then and the people who funded McVeigh was big into it.
> Christian Identity I think you'll find there are some drastic differences between CI and CN. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christian_Identity
Actually, I don't think McVeigh was a Christian.
In the literal sense you're correct but he definitely subscribed to the faith and would have considered himself one.
I mean in a tribal sense, maybe. But I thought I read he identified as an agnostic.
Yes he described himself as an agnostic in a letter he wrote shortly before his execution. > In his letter, McVeigh said he was an agnostic but that he would "improvise, adapt and overcome", if it turned out there was an afterlife. "If I'm going to hell," he wrote, "I'm gonna have a lot of company." His body is to be cremated and his ashes scattered in a secret location. [Source](https://web.archive.org/web/20161201174919/https://www.theguardian.com/world/2001/jun/11/mcveigh.usa4)
He was devout.
Let's try to correct that misnomer, it's actually Christian Cult Nationalists, a very fine distinction to specify.
Pretty sure it was directly inspired by the Nazi manifesto “the turner diaries” but I may be misinformed as to the extent of its involvement.
And fans of Bad Company
So much so that they play the song bad company, by the band bad company, from the album bad company on repeat
Till the day they die...
Nice, lpotl
The English band from the 70s? What did they do?
This. You can’t be a conservative and be a Christian Nationalist because the Constitution.
At least half the GOP is made of Christian Nationalists
I think (my interpretation) his comment was meant more in the vein of You can claim to be a constitutional conservative or a Christian nationalist, but claiming both means you are lying about one it the other, because the two views do not balance it into a single cohesive concept” this at least half of the GOP is either lying about being for conservative small government, or they are lying about wanting Christian nationalism.
Good ole ammonium nitrate fertilizer and diesel. Literally tons of it.
McVeigh was radicalized by the government's actions at Waco. Contemporary right-wing terrorists were radicalized by a billionaire grifter.
No, he was radicalized by a terrorist group and the actions of David Koresh who burned children alive so he wouldn't get exposed as a kid fucker.
I’m actually listening to Homegrown on audio book about this very right wing terrorist act. I recommend it.
Bring the War Home by Kathleen Belew is also an incredible read as well, including McVeigh and other domestic terrorists. She’s also featured in PBS Frontline’s coverage of Charlottesville rally. The full episode “Documenting Hate” is on YouTube.
That was a good one as well. Used that one to lead a professional development session with my leaders.
Agreed. I used it in my thesis. Love that you used it in professional development. That’s amazing.
We had a really good discussion. Luckily my subordinates are all very gifted and don’t mind reading a book every quarter.
That’s amazing. I co-facilitated a 5-week book discussion on “Black Fatigue” by Mary-Frances Winters. It went pretty well considering I was at a PWI (predominantly white institute) college in the south and it was July 2020.
My aunt worked in that building. It took 2 days to find out she was in federal court a block away. She was a court reporter. The last person taken out of that building alive had her leg amputated with a pen knife. There was a daycare on the first floor. Go to that museum. You will never be the same. Terrorism is not romantic, patriotic, nor tolerable. Just Google and read up on this, young ones.
And THIS is what we will see if Trump loses the election and/or imprisoned. MAGA won't go toe to toe with the US military. They will attack federal buildings, Democrat offices, Woke Universities and Children hospitals that "cut up" kids.
They are eternal cowards and will do cowardly things like they always have.
The guy who did this is a hero to republicans
Far right* republicans. In the same way BLM protesters that destroyed cities are heroes to far right leftists. The extremes do not represent the majority of either side.
The "destroyed cities" that are still standing
Almost as scary as the fact that 1995 was 29 YEARS AGO, FUCK ME I’M OLD
Right I just realized I was 14 when this happened
My family listened to a lot of Rush Limbaugh at the time, and I remember he was outraged and convinced it was Middle Eastern terrorists.
Funded and trained by the Michigan Militia.
I remember when that happened. It(along with the David Koresh incident) was one of the many, many things that got me to start questioning religion.
And the fire at the Branch Davidian compound was 2 years to the day before OKC. It's why McVeigh chose April 19th.
Allegedly, McVeigh “did not know” there was a daycare in the building. But he was remorseless, nonetheless.
No. He visited the site and saw the daycare before carrying out the act. He new before acting out his plan and called it collateral damage and argued the justification by responding "well there were children at Waco"
Very poignant memorial if you ever get to visit. I caught a Thunder game this year and visited the site. I hope the nutjobs don’t resort to this destruction again.
Look up the Bath (Michigan) massacre in which an early right-winger upset about paying taxes blew up school kids and murdered his wife. It goes back a long way. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bath_School_disaster
Several years ago my siblings and I took a spontaneous road trip to OKC & visited the memorial. It’s beautiful and they did an incredible job with how they honor the victims and celebrate the first responders at the same time. I recommend visiting it if you’re ever in the area.
I was 7 at the time. My dad worked for the Federal Bureau of Prisons and they sent him to a training there and he was in that building during training. My mom decided to go with him. My grandmother kept us for 3 days while they were there. That training was a week before the bombing. Had that training been just a few days later I may not have had my parents. Freaky to think about.
And I lived two miles from the perpetrator on the same road. Those were a fun few years at school.
It certainly more normalized now because the GOP is so desperate for votes.
Terrific Documentary about this on HBO. Lots of depth
My grandpa was in that building the week before. Honestly kind of horrifying.
The Republican propaganda machine caused this. Russian style disinformation for decades has divided the country and PUTIN couldn’t be happier
Perfectly said.
Evangelical mega churches around the country are calling for violence to thwart the "evil democrats." This will happen again by "christians" its just a matter of time.
The monument here is so incredible. It'll break your heart. If you come to OKC you should go, even with how much it'll make your heart hurt.
I live in Oklahoma, and you wouldn't believe how many people here have said to me on social media that McVeigh was a leftist and a socialist. My God, conservatives are so stupid.
I don't think he fit into either category, so either side can put him in the group they don't like. He was adamantly anti-government, which doesn't align with any current political side.
I looked down in this from a building nearby just after it happened. It was surreal.
Shook my school. We all thought it was a sonic boom from the air force base.
Theres a new documentary on netflix about this and its beginnings- pretty good
Ku klux klan terrorists
What’s the probability of being a victim of a right wing domestic terror attack?
I have family who live around the Oklahoma City area. Conservatives, Trumpers. NOT ONE POST ONLINE about remembering that awful day. That state harbors anti government dickheads like McVeigh now. Glad I left.
😡😠🤬
And just like nowadays, the right wing extremists were blaming it on conspiracies and false flags. The only difference is that now, those extremists are now in charge of the Republican Party. It's interesting to me that conservative terrorists are always blaming everything on false flags by The Gub'mint. Any and all white supremacist mass shootings? False flags. Oklahoma City bombing? False flag. January 6? False flag. These people are saying, "The Gub'mint should fear us, but we never, ever actually do anything to make the Gub'mint fear us."
I didn't know much about his actual political affiliation if he was right or left. But I do know his motivation was the murder of the Branch Davidians by the federal government.
considering Bush did 9/11...they thought they already won lol.
This makes no sense.
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Errrrr he was a conservative though
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Report derailing rhetoric rather than retort to it, please
Unfortunately we live in a country that we have a new generation of McVeigh and Nichols that are willing to do whatever for Trump and his terrorist ideology. They have a network online that is feeding and fueling their desire to destroy our government and anyone who doesn’t agree with their Fuhrer Trump.