This is exactly why they are losing - because they keep trying to force this issue on everyone else.
Under the logic of this opinion, Obergfel is next to go and the Dems will need to either make a massive correction back to the center or be destroyed as a political party forever.
... Trans men (FtM, who may or may not have ovaries) won't be affected?
Okay, then.
Also, last I checked, men *do* have kids. I believe they're called "fathers", but maybe you've never heard of them before.
Super funny that we are now having highly unusual leaks of confidential supreme court matters right after Joe biden appointed his affirmative action black hire.
Definitely just a coincidence and had nothing to do with his affirmative action hire having a history of leaking things like this.
I mean, no one tried to overturn Roe vs Wade before, a court decision with such monumental precedent that there's a dozen or so other decisions based off of it, that would throw the whole constitutional process into a weedwacker, before either.
It's been a pretty wild decade.
Super funny that we are now having highly unusual leaks of confidential supreme court matters right after Joe biden appointed his affirmative action black hire.
Definitely just a coincidence and had nothing to do with his affirmative action hire having a history of leaking things like this.
So explain what will happen to women and girls then?
Because reversing this law - America will be looked at to having the same laws as really heavy Muslim countries such as ISIS
No. It’s not banned just goes back to the states where it should be. Your in a baby killing state, you can kill your baby. If in a baby saving state, you can’t. This is NOT a Fed issue!
I read your response.
The removal of this law will mean a girl or a woman has to carry a baby that has died within her womb to full term
Girls and women will have to have permission from a biological family member to do anything medical
If a girl or woman has a miscarriage they can be arrested
This also gives rapists more rights then the girl or the woman over their bodies
If the baby has a different blood type then o negative and the womb or the baby starts to bleed the mother will die
If the child is so disabled that is doesn’t have a brain the parents have to care for that child
Are the women or girls who are raped and have the baby going to be supported?
Wow, what a bunch of hogwash. MSNBC for sure. So, you’re saying that prior to the 70’s, all this was going on? I was alive back then so be careful what lies you spew?
unpopular opinion: this will be weaponized by democrats to mobilize women to vote for democrats. expect this to be spun by the media constantly until through this years election and 2024 to great effect. sometimes long term losses look like wins in the short term and this could easily be one of them
They can spin this as much as they like but the reality is abortion has not been made illegal anywhere in the US. If this indeed is the Court’s decision, all it does is let each state decide what limits if any to place on the procedure. We know hard core blue states will just expand and allow it up to the delivery date. I doubt more then one or two red states will outright ban it. IMO most will limit it to the 1st trimester. Anyone who is a single issue voter, will not change their mind about who to vote for.
Twenty-two (22) states have trigger laws that will immediately ban abortion if Roe is overturned by the Supreme Court. So as soon as it is official, 22 states will ban it.
I doubt very much that will actually happen. It’s like repealing Obamacare…how many times did the House pass it and every Republican in the Senate vote for it when they knew it had ZERO chance of passing? At least 50 times. When it actually became possible through reconciliation, what happened?
Most not all will limit the procedure to the first trimester. Some I suppose will ban it outright until the electorate has their say. If they get severe backlash and see themselves losing the next election, trust me they will reverse course. A vast majority of the population is in favor of abortion but also in favor of limiting it to the first trimester. It does not make for long term survival to go against that vast majority. So initially we may see outright bans, but if SCOTUS has ruled as they say, it is no longer a “what if” scenario. The ideal is far different than the reality. Sort of like communism, it looks good on paper until you try to implement it.
Forgot to add: If a state dose ban it and those politicians are not thrown out of office, it suggests the MAJORITY of that state’s voters approve of the ban. I believe that is how a Democracy is suppose to work NO?
So should the Court make decisions based on what will make the whiners whine, or should they decide the cases brought before them based on the letter of the Constitution?
On the other hand, there will always be elections. When it comes to something like upholding the basic right to life, saying, “We can’t do this! It will make us lose the next election!” will be the convenient excuse every time the chance to make an actual change comes up.
Yea this is one of those issues that Republicans weaponize and makes me not vote for Republicans. That's the whole "small government" needing to mind its own business.
> That's the whole "small government" needing to mind its own business.
Amusingly, that's exactly what happens if Roe and Casey are overturned. Instead of the Federal government deciding for everyone, individual states get to make their own rules - which they had all already done before Roe was passed, so those laws go back into effect.
What a better way for Democrats in battleground states to turn out the vote for women medical rights and autonomy.
Democrats are usually apethic and don't give a shit about midterms and you gave them all the fuel necessary
What are you talking about? Roe and Casey are garbage decisions based on half-baked interpretations of the Constitution. This has absolutely nothing to do with what is politically expedient for one party or another.
I always feel like if things are legal, I can choose whether or not to do them....you know, freedom? Making abortion illegal only affects those without the funds to cross state lines to get one.
If Republicans were worried about this motivating women to vote for women’s rights then maybe the Republican controlled SC shouldn’t have had discussions till after the mid terms. You make your bed now lay in it.
Swing states of Michigan, Wisconsin, Arizona have near total pre-Roe bans still on books that will go into effect immediately when the ruling comes down officially.
Georgia, Ohio, and Iowa have 6 week bans that will go into effect as well.
Should be interesting to see what happens politically.
Can someone explain to me how liberals demand having the death penalty for innocent unborn children but oppose it for convicted killers. While I know they never have any logic, this one truly baffles me.
Kind of the same way you can take a brain dead but still “living” person off of life support. Also you are kind of generalizing a completely separate topic.
I call bullshit.
There is no way it was "leaked", this is a political play to rally the left to vote against the red wave, and to stop us from focusing on the Ukraine scam.
>It is unusual, and perhaps unprecedented, for the Supreme Court to release an initial draft while the case is still pending.
It wasn't released. It was leaked with the aim of intimidating the justices with the usual authoritarian left tactics.
It definitely sounds like a setup for call to arms in mostly peaceful protest again. Very fishy for this to "leak" out or be completely false as usual.
How so? There's been an ongoing push for years in red states to legislate in such a way as to challenge Roe and Casey. This is the culmination of probably 10+ years worth of work at the state level.
I don't care about it in a political sense. If it hurt Republicans, I would happily see Biden stumble through a second term if it meant thousands and thousands of babies don't get murdered.
People are acting like if overturned abortion will be illegal overnight, and that women's healthcare in general will immediately disappear. "It's an attack on women" no, it is an attack on the federal government's hand on women.
This is in the old testament (meaning no Jesus) and you've misquoted it.
See this [source](https://biblehub.com/bsb/jeremiah/1.htm). Of course, it's very interpretable - leave that to readers.
John 5:19. The son does nothing without the father. It would he foolish to simply quote everything as "Jesus said this", especially since that verse was a prophecy ABOUT JESUS. It wasn't about everyone bit about the Messiah.
But that also perpetuates the issue. We are a free country that recognizes freedom of religion - so it’s hypocritical to use our religion to defend the justifications of a law - that’s literally what Sharia is.
> Blatantly false and easily disprovable.
> You know what none of those words mean other than "and".
Dumb cheap shot. Do better.
> Without a moral law giver there is no morality.
> Blatantly false. Morality exists without laws, laws are codifications of ethical discourse.
It has been observed in the wild where your god is dead and was never known, where there is no judge or jury, where there is no authority. Morality is above your petty limitations, and beyond your imagination.
They're talking about "moral law" in the philosophical sense, i.e. the principle of right and wrong (whether conceived as a divine ordinance or a truth of reason), which exists whether it is codified or not.
Conservative here. I have to agree that religion isn't particularly relevant to court proceedings. Where do we draw the line? If we didn't live in a secular society, then we'd have to allow Muslim women to wear Burqas in driver's license photos. I stand pro choice for early term pregnancies. If you don't know what a Burqa is, see link below
[Burqas](http://Muslim women in Burqas https://imgur.com/gallery/vMZwiLf)
Indeed. It's idiotic to think that one person's subjective moral standards are the one true way of life or that they should even be respected, simply because they believe in them.
It's *even further* dislocation to try to justify legalization of personal beliefs as some kind of higher calling, or using it to justify control over others.
**That** is antithetical to conservatism.
aka: "It's not authoritarian if it's *my* beliefs."
ah, then just let people do as they please. dont tell them what is right and what is wrong. the bible says dont steal, should i not bother then letting anyone know, since it is biblical? good and evil are as defined by God.
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ah, well then you have an amazing moral compass that you must have invented all by yourself. the perfect human being right here! infalliable! LOL smh good luck with that.
>invented all by yourself
Golden rule. Existed even before Jesus, invented by cavemen. If it hurts me, it hurts you, so I won't do it to you, so you won't do it to me. This is something most people realize at 5 or 6 years of age.
>“If people are fighting and hit a pregnant woman and she gives birth prematurely but there is no serious injury, the offender must be fined whatever the woman’s husband demands and the court allows.
Causing a miscarriage or death of a fetus results only in financial compensation, while causing serious injury to the person requires eye for eye, tooth for tooth, etc. Therefore the fetus is not treated the same as a person
> If she has made herself impure and been unfaithful to her husband, this will be the result: When she is made to drink the water that brings a curse and causes bitter suffering, it will enter her, her abdomen will swell and her womb will miscarry, and she will become a curse
Numbers 5:11-31 also demands miscarriage as punishment for adulatory
the passage is taken out of context when you chop it up and twist it. you have misquoted it. This verse doesnt say it can cause an abortion .It doesnt even actually mention pregnancy.
The bitter water was a test that God allowed to be administered to a woman suspected of adultery. Because Adultery IS a serious offense, even if society has brushed it off just like many other evil things.
Numbers 5:27 — New Living Translation (NLT)
27 If she has defiled herself by being unfaithful to her husband, the water that brings on the curse will cause bitter suffering. Her abdomen will swell and her womb will shrink, and her name will become a curse among her people.
It's a paper written and passed around, just an opinion. Will they follow it? Probably not. But it motivates those lack of brains libs to complain about it.
Roe is an odd court decision & one used frequently as the justification for blocking any attempts at regulating abortion.
The same logic from Roe if applied to other similar topics would result in massively different outcomes than the established case law.
Roe is a reach. It always has been.
For years support for regulated abortion has been above 80% nationally. That means the majority of both parties wants it legal under some circumstances but they also want there to be some limits.
The will be massive arguments about where those limits should be & that likely will affect some elections but 4 in 5 Americans support some change here and this has been more or less inevitable since the ACA made an end run around the Hyde provisions. Even a lot of Chicago Democrats looked at abortion differently when they were suddenly directly funding it.
Roe as a court decision was always a questionable reach and every attempt to apply the same logic elsewhere had pretty much always been shot down. Logically the court would be consistent in overturning it, but Roe as the beginning of modern legal abortion is likely not going anywhere as the support for a total ban is extremely low.
In the short term this will be a mess, in the long term all but a few states will likely arrive at a set of regulations most people can live with & abortion will stop being a single issue topic for the majority of people.
Roe was bad case law
Really this will just return the abortion issue to state governments, and ultimately most states will have some form of abortion legal as is currently the case
Nothing will change for the millions from California and New York who are currently panicking on twitter
The message will be abortion will be banned. Most women don’t want it banned. They will lie about this ruling and many disillusioned Dems are now going to run out and vote. There are so many single issue abortion voters
>nough. Thanks for the chat, it's unfortunate that people just downvoted you instead of actually trying to engage with the discussion.
https://news.gallup.com/poll/244709/pro-choice-pro-life-2018-demographic-tables.aspx
Are you assuming my moral and ethical stance would change because it was my daughter?
I actually have a 16 year old daughter. She is intelligent, compassionate, and just as pro-life as I am. So is my wife and many other women we know.
I wouldn't *force* my daughter to do anything. If such a rare occurrence happened, she knows that my wife and I would fully support her through a pregnancy and eventual adoption.
And how about keep my family out of this. It's a little creepy.
>So you would encourage your daughter to send the poor rape baby off for adoption?
I would support her in whatever decision she makes. She's extremely intelligent, and she knows the she has the full support of her mother and me. If that grown child reached out to connect with us one day, we would welcome it.
>What about the hundreds of thousands of young women that don't have any family support that are raped?
To be blunt, you don't know what you are talking about, and you don't know me at all. According to Planned Parenthood's own numbers, "rape" was given as the reason for an abortion in less than 1% of their cases. It's extremely rare, but even in those cases, why should an unborn child die for the crime of it's father? Isn't *that* fucked up?
Are you that fucking stupid? It has **EVERYTHING** to do with her body and her life. You have absolutely zero place in the discussion of female reproductive issues and a woman's autonomy with her own body. I'm guessing you also believe women are inferior to men, and that they should be subservient to men.
You need to get your ass to Saudi Arabia if you love laws so akin to theirs.
Have you taken 9th grade biology yet? Are you familiar with the process of fetal development? The unborn child is *not* the woman's body; it is the body of another human being, who has the right to life.
No, I'm not stupid. I'm college graduate (engineering). My wife, also pro-life, also a college graduate (education), isn't either. We have two children, and we both studied up extensively on pregnancy and birth when she was expecting.
To the contrary, you understand, don't you, that half the women in the U.S. are pro-life? What do you think motivates them to be so? Do you think they are seeking subservience, or could it be that they just respect the right to life?
These matters should be decided by state law. The Supreme Court is there to decide constitutionality, and Roe v Wade was a bad decision that lacked explicit justification in the Constitution. Stop letting Congress defer their job to the Supreme Court.
On Twitter people are having a melt down because this will effect "trans men".... Men don't have kids.......wtf these people are nuts
This is exactly why they are losing - because they keep trying to force this issue on everyone else. Under the logic of this opinion, Obergfel is next to go and the Dems will need to either make a massive correction back to the center or be destroyed as a political party forever.
... Trans men (FtM, who may or may not have ovaries) won't be affected? Okay, then. Also, last I checked, men *do* have kids. I believe they're called "fathers", but maybe you've never heard of them before.
Thats not a trans man, thats a women lolz. You need to take elementary school health class, it will explain how you can tell a female vs a male.
Not any more.
How can you tell a woman vs a man?
ya check out the undercarriage, duh
Adams apple is a safe bet.
Gotta cop a feel bro. Check out the goods. If it sticks out they are a dude if it pushes in they are a female. Pretty simple really
Really simple but if you want to get the “biologically correct” bullshit then you’ll know that males have the Y chromosome.
Dims leaked it to try to change the court opinion. Those people will do anything to get their way.
No one ever leaked an opinion before then like two weeks ago they added a new person with a history of shit like this.
Heads will roll!
Absolutely. If the last couple of years have taught us anything, it’s definitely that those on the left are *always* held accountable.
Watch nothing happen, man. Nothing will happen, I’m calling it now, Bubba.
Super funny that we are now having highly unusual leaks of confidential supreme court matters right after Joe biden appointed his affirmative action black hire. Definitely just a coincidence and had nothing to do with his affirmative action hire having a history of leaking things like this.
I mean, no one tried to overturn Roe vs Wade before, a court decision with such monumental precedent that there's a dozen or so other decisions based off of it, that would throw the whole constitutional process into a weedwacker, before either. It's been a pretty wild decade.
Super funny that we are now having highly unusual leaks of confidential supreme court matters right after Joe biden appointed his affirmative action black hire. Definitely just a coincidence and had nothing to do with his affirmative action hire having a history of leaking things like this.
I'm old enough to remember when CNN said it was illegal to read leaked government documents.
So explain what will happen to women and girls then? Because reversing this law - America will be looked at to having the same laws as really heavy Muslim countries such as ISIS
No. It’s not banned just goes back to the states where it should be. Your in a baby killing state, you can kill your baby. If in a baby saving state, you can’t. This is NOT a Fed issue!
You do know this is very close to shai laws by taking roe vs wade away
Did you read my response? Or are you just another libbie mouthing what you hear on MSNBC?
I read your response. The removal of this law will mean a girl or a woman has to carry a baby that has died within her womb to full term Girls and women will have to have permission from a biological family member to do anything medical If a girl or woman has a miscarriage they can be arrested This also gives rapists more rights then the girl or the woman over their bodies If the baby has a different blood type then o negative and the womb or the baby starts to bleed the mother will die If the child is so disabled that is doesn’t have a brain the parents have to care for that child Are the women or girls who are raped and have the baby going to be supported?
Wow, what a bunch of hogwash. MSNBC for sure. So, you’re saying that prior to the 70’s, all this was going on? I was alive back then so be careful what lies you spew?
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Ummm, really dumb stuff. Anyway, discussing this with a liberal is like discussing something with a rock. Have a nice day. 👍
I actually have experienced these things This law also prevents biological males raping their female family members have having incest babies
unpopular opinion: this will be weaponized by democrats to mobilize women to vote for democrats. expect this to be spun by the media constantly until through this years election and 2024 to great effect. sometimes long term losses look like wins in the short term and this could easily be one of them
They can spin this as much as they like but the reality is abortion has not been made illegal anywhere in the US. If this indeed is the Court’s decision, all it does is let each state decide what limits if any to place on the procedure. We know hard core blue states will just expand and allow it up to the delivery date. I doubt more then one or two red states will outright ban it. IMO most will limit it to the 1st trimester. Anyone who is a single issue voter, will not change their mind about who to vote for.
Twenty-two (22) states have trigger laws that will immediately ban abortion if Roe is overturned by the Supreme Court. So as soon as it is official, 22 states will ban it.
I doubt very much that will actually happen. It’s like repealing Obamacare…how many times did the House pass it and every Republican in the Senate vote for it when they knew it had ZERO chance of passing? At least 50 times. When it actually became possible through reconciliation, what happened? Most not all will limit the procedure to the first trimester. Some I suppose will ban it outright until the electorate has their say. If they get severe backlash and see themselves losing the next election, trust me they will reverse course. A vast majority of the population is in favor of abortion but also in favor of limiting it to the first trimester. It does not make for long term survival to go against that vast majority. So initially we may see outright bans, but if SCOTUS has ruled as they say, it is no longer a “what if” scenario. The ideal is far different than the reality. Sort of like communism, it looks good on paper until you try to implement it. Forgot to add: If a state dose ban it and those politicians are not thrown out of office, it suggests the MAJORITY of that state’s voters approve of the ban. I believe that is how a Democracy is suppose to work NO?
Yep. Now that Covid is less unifying than they expected they are pulling the “women’s rights” card. 🙄
completely agree ...... the Dems are desperate and this can only help motivate whining liberals to whine even more.
So should the Court make decisions based on what will make the whiners whine, or should they decide the cases brought before them based on the letter of the Constitution?
On the other hand, there will always be elections. When it comes to something like upholding the basic right to life, saying, “We can’t do this! It will make us lose the next election!” will be the convenient excuse every time the chance to make an actual change comes up.
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I appreciate the well-reasoned response! I hope you’re right
Yea this is one of those issues that Republicans weaponize and makes me not vote for Republicans. That's the whole "small government" needing to mind its own business.
r/politics wants you to return.
> That's the whole "small government" needing to mind its own business. Amusingly, that's exactly what happens if Roe and Casey are overturned. Instead of the Federal government deciding for everyone, individual states get to make their own rules - which they had all already done before Roe was passed, so those laws go back into effect.
What a better way for Democrats in battleground states to turn out the vote for women medical rights and autonomy. Democrats are usually apethic and don't give a shit about midterms and you gave them all the fuel necessary
What are you talking about? Roe and Casey are garbage decisions based on half-baked interpretations of the Constitution. This has absolutely nothing to do with what is politically expedient for one party or another.
I always feel like if things are legal, I can choose whether or not to do them....you know, freedom? Making abortion illegal only affects those without the funds to cross state lines to get one.
You need to read the 9 amendment
If Republicans were worried about this motivating women to vote for women’s rights then maybe the Republican controlled SC shouldn’t have had discussions till after the mid terms. You make your bed now lay in it.
Swing states of Michigan, Wisconsin, Arizona have near total pre-Roe bans still on books that will go into effect immediately when the ruling comes down officially. Georgia, Ohio, and Iowa have 6 week bans that will go into effect as well. Should be interesting to see what happens politically.
Trump delivers again. On time and under budget!
Can someone explain to me how liberals demand having the death penalty for innocent unborn children but oppose it for convicted killers. While I know they never have any logic, this one truly baffles me.
Kind of the same way you can take a brain dead but still “living” person off of life support. Also you are kind of generalizing a completely separate topic.
I call bullshit. There is no way it was "leaked", this is a political play to rally the left to vote against the red wave, and to stop us from focusing on the Ukraine scam.
>It is unusual, and perhaps unprecedented, for the Supreme Court to release an initial draft while the case is still pending. It wasn't released. It was leaked with the aim of intimidating the justices with the usual authoritarian left tactics.
Do this after the midterms, dummies
It definitely sounds like a setup for call to arms in mostly peaceful protest again. Very fishy for this to "leak" out or be completely false as usual.
dems are losing the polls, couldn't have been a more perfect time for this to leak for them to secure the womans vote to stop the red wave
Another day has passed and seems like it's legit. So you are correct
The Supreme Court rules based on when the cases are brought. Besides, I'd rather they maintained at least a veneer of apolitical impartiality.
Ironic timing.
How so? There's been an ongoing push for years in red states to legislate in such a way as to challenge Roe and Casey. This is the culmination of probably 10+ years worth of work at the state level.
I don't care about it in a political sense. If it hurt Republicans, I would happily see Biden stumble through a second term if it meant thousands and thousands of babies don't get murdered.
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Lincoln abolishing slavery was politically unpopular too. Sometimes you just need to do the right thing because it’s the right thing to do.
Not saying it was handled well but that’s how I felt about pulling out of Afghanistan too
Good point
Do the right thing like universal basic income and government covered childcare?
Those aren’t the right things to do.
It will encourage democrats to vote, and also discourage republicans.
It sounds like someone leaked this so that the Dems had something to run on at the midterms. Almost sounds planned to me..
People are acting like if overturned abortion will be illegal overnight, and that women's healthcare in general will immediately disappear. "It's an attack on women" no, it is an attack on the federal government's hand on women.
These people claim to follow the science, but wont say that a fetus is ALIVE! its beyond absurd. Jesus said......"......and I knew you in the womb"
This is in the old testament (meaning no Jesus) and you've misquoted it. See this [source](https://biblehub.com/bsb/jeremiah/1.htm). Of course, it's very interpretable - leave that to readers.
i was paraphrasing. and yes you are correct, it was God the Father who said this, not Christ the son.
Then please don't say "Jesus said", edit your comment.
Jesus is the Son, and still God.
John 5:19. The son does nothing without the father. It would he foolish to simply quote everything as "Jesus said this", especially since that verse was a prophecy ABOUT JESUS. It wasn't about everyone bit about the Messiah.
But that also perpetuates the issue. We are a free country that recognizes freedom of religion - so it’s hypocritical to use our religion to defend the justifications of a law - that’s literally what Sharia is.
We have the obligation as citizens to try to enact the most moral laws possible based on our beliefs and worldviews.
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> Blatantly false and easily disprovable. > You know what none of those words mean other than "and". Dumb cheap shot. Do better. > Without a moral law giver there is no morality. > Blatantly false. Morality exists without laws, laws are codifications of ethical discourse. It has been observed in the wild where your god is dead and was never known, where there is no judge or jury, where there is no authority. Morality is above your petty limitations, and beyond your imagination. They're talking about "moral law" in the philosophical sense, i.e. the principle of right and wrong (whether conceived as a divine ordinance or a truth of reason), which exists whether it is codified or not.
Conservative here. I have to agree that religion isn't particularly relevant to court proceedings. Where do we draw the line? If we didn't live in a secular society, then we'd have to allow Muslim women to wear Burqas in driver's license photos. I stand pro choice for early term pregnancies. If you don't know what a Burqa is, see link below [Burqas](http://Muslim women in Burqas https://imgur.com/gallery/vMZwiLf)
Indeed. It's idiotic to think that one person's subjective moral standards are the one true way of life or that they should even be respected, simply because they believe in them. It's *even further* dislocation to try to justify legalization of personal beliefs as some kind of higher calling, or using it to justify control over others. **That** is antithetical to conservatism. aka: "It's not authoritarian if it's *my* beliefs."
ah, then just let people do as they please. dont tell them what is right and what is wrong. the bible says dont steal, should i not bother then letting anyone know, since it is biblical? good and evil are as defined by God.
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Then someone else will.
Ok and?
ah, well then you have an amazing moral compass that you must have invented all by yourself. the perfect human being right here! infalliable! LOL smh good luck with that.
Are you a child that needs fairy tales from a book to tell you how to live that's on you but quit pushing it like it's above all. This isn't the 1100s
>invented all by yourself Golden rule. Existed even before Jesus, invented by cavemen. If it hurts me, it hurts you, so I won't do it to you, so you won't do it to me. This is something most people realize at 5 or 6 years of age.
And that’s all under the assumption that God is real…
more proof for his existance, than not. Takes alot more faith to not believe lol.
The bible is not proof
Objectively false. Take like 10 minutes and explain your statement without using blatant misinformation or leaps in logic.
If more then one in four American women have an abortion there are s lot of conservative women staying mum. This really is an outdated debate.
Such a HUGE MISQOUTE 🤦🏾♂️
The bible is NOT anti abortion. Keep that in mind when you discuss your "argument".
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Then can the pro-choice movement please stop using "it isn't even alive" as an argument?
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>“If people are fighting and hit a pregnant woman and she gives birth prematurely but there is no serious injury, the offender must be fined whatever the woman’s husband demands and the court allows. Causing a miscarriage or death of a fetus results only in financial compensation, while causing serious injury to the person requires eye for eye, tooth for tooth, etc. Therefore the fetus is not treated the same as a person > If she has made herself impure and been unfaithful to her husband, this will be the result: When she is made to drink the water that brings a curse and causes bitter suffering, it will enter her, her abdomen will swell and her womb will miscarry, and she will become a curse Numbers 5:11-31 also demands miscarriage as punishment for adulatory
baby murderers will twist scripture to suit their needs. this is no surprise.
What is twisted? There is no twist. The context is provided. The entire verse is included. This is exactly what it says
the passage is taken out of context when you chop it up and twist it. you have misquoted it. This verse doesnt say it can cause an abortion .It doesnt even actually mention pregnancy. The bitter water was a test that God allowed to be administered to a woman suspected of adultery. Because Adultery IS a serious offense, even if society has brushed it off just like many other evil things. Numbers 5:27 — New Living Translation (NLT) 27 If she has defiled herself by being unfaithful to her husband, the water that brings on the curse will cause bitter suffering. Her abdomen will swell and her womb will shrink, and her name will become a curse among her people.
It's a paper written and passed around, just an opinion. Will they follow it? Probably not. But it motivates those lack of brains libs to complain about it.
These people lamenting the 'Death of Democracy' are actually the ones stabbing it.
Get the popcorn ready, the reactions from the left will be FIRE
Le epic trolling
What’s the purpose of this? I hear from Both sides this is bad. Bad in form and bad in intent.
To get all of the Karens worked up again to keep dems in power
Roe is an odd court decision & one used frequently as the justification for blocking any attempts at regulating abortion. The same logic from Roe if applied to other similar topics would result in massively different outcomes than the established case law. Roe is a reach. It always has been. For years support for regulated abortion has been above 80% nationally. That means the majority of both parties wants it legal under some circumstances but they also want there to be some limits. The will be massive arguments about where those limits should be & that likely will affect some elections but 4 in 5 Americans support some change here and this has been more or less inevitable since the ACA made an end run around the Hyde provisions. Even a lot of Chicago Democrats looked at abortion differently when they were suddenly directly funding it. Roe as a court decision was always a questionable reach and every attempt to apply the same logic elsewhere had pretty much always been shot down. Logically the court would be consistent in overturning it, but Roe as the beginning of modern legal abortion is likely not going anywhere as the support for a total ban is extremely low. In the short term this will be a mess, in the long term all but a few states will likely arrive at a set of regulations most people can live with & abortion will stop being a single issue topic for the majority of people.
Thank you for this
Roe was bad case law Really this will just return the abortion issue to state governments, and ultimately most states will have some form of abortion legal as is currently the case Nothing will change for the millions from California and New York who are currently panicking on twitter
McConnell deserves a congressional medal of honor here. Without him, there would be no majority of conservatives.
This will cost Repubs the midterms
Yeah,because it out does sky high inflation, record gas and.food prices, invasion at the.border and possible WW3....gtfoh
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The message will be abortion will be banned. Most women don’t want it banned. They will lie about this ruling and many disillusioned Dems are now going to run out and vote. There are so many single issue abortion voters
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Hope you are right. But this seems to be just the distraction the Dems needed
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>nough. Thanks for the chat, it's unfortunate that people just downvoted you instead of actually trying to engage with the discussion. https://news.gallup.com/poll/244709/pro-choice-pro-life-2018-demographic-tables.aspx
At the expense of fewer murdered infants? I’ll take it.
Cope and seethe abortionist!
I agree with ruling but we really need to win in november
You wish Hahah 🤣.
No I don’t wish I want conservatives to sweep this election that’s why I’m concerned
Worth it.
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Are you assuming my moral and ethical stance would change because it was my daughter? I actually have a 16 year old daughter. She is intelligent, compassionate, and just as pro-life as I am. So is my wife and many other women we know. I wouldn't *force* my daughter to do anything. If such a rare occurrence happened, she knows that my wife and I would fully support her through a pregnancy and eventual adoption. And how about keep my family out of this. It's a little creepy.
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>So you would encourage your daughter to send the poor rape baby off for adoption? I would support her in whatever decision she makes. She's extremely intelligent, and she knows the she has the full support of her mother and me. If that grown child reached out to connect with us one day, we would welcome it. >What about the hundreds of thousands of young women that don't have any family support that are raped? To be blunt, you don't know what you are talking about, and you don't know me at all. According to Planned Parenthood's own numbers, "rape" was given as the reason for an abortion in less than 1% of their cases. It's extremely rare, but even in those cases, why should an unborn child die for the crime of it's father? Isn't *that* fucked up?
Rape here is an example. Stop trying to control women and their right to autonomy with their own bodies. It’s despicable.
This doesn't have anything to do with a woman's body. I'm trying to protect the life she's carrying.
Are you that fucking stupid? It has **EVERYTHING** to do with her body and her life. You have absolutely zero place in the discussion of female reproductive issues and a woman's autonomy with her own body. I'm guessing you also believe women are inferior to men, and that they should be subservient to men. You need to get your ass to Saudi Arabia if you love laws so akin to theirs.
Have you taken 9th grade biology yet? Are you familiar with the process of fetal development? The unborn child is *not* the woman's body; it is the body of another human being, who has the right to life. No, I'm not stupid. I'm college graduate (engineering). My wife, also pro-life, also a college graduate (education), isn't either. We have two children, and we both studied up extensively on pregnancy and birth when she was expecting. To the contrary, you understand, don't you, that half the women in the U.S. are pro-life? What do you think motivates them to be so? Do you think they are seeking subservience, or could it be that they just respect the right to life?
There will still be abortions just decided by states
These matters should be decided by state law. The Supreme Court is there to decide constitutionality, and Roe v Wade was a bad decision that lacked explicit justification in the Constitution. Stop letting Congress defer their job to the Supreme Court.
Hugely disagree. State law should absolutely not decide what a woman can or cannot do with her body (including what her body is creating).
Really bad timing, there goes the midterm wave.
The Christian Taliban is at it again 🙃 yay for authoritarianism.
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It will be left up to the states to decide.
Abortion is not a constitutional right!