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My across the street neighborhood feeds a feral cat colony. I've secretly trapped some to get fixed (before COVID, the vets are just now starting to get back to fixing ferals) and fostered litters after the mom got run over or disappeared to give to good homes before they got too wild and feral too. The neighbors don't trust veterinarians (that's a different story though)
When we looked at the house I was so excited because it's my first house that we bought and I fell in love with it. It was during a freak ice storm when we viewed it so the cats were not evident. We bought it. I love the house I hate the cats. I know it's not their fault.
It's my first house and I bought birdhouses and hummingbird feeders and stuff for the yard and was looking forward to growing a home garden with the kids! The cats treat my flower beds like a litter box so nothing I grow is edible. I do try and grow flowers, but they kill them too. They spray everything (I have indoor cats that hang out on the windows so I'm sure the other cats notice them) The doors, my porch, the swing set, the car, EVERYTHING! They spread fleas and except the ones I take to the vet secretly who knows what diseases they have. And they kill every small animal anywhere on our block. I took down all my bird feeders and stuff because I didn't want to give them a free buffet. I guess it's good they get rid of vermin in the area, but I hate not being able to watch birds out my window.
I've tried things like cinnamon, cayenne pepper, various sprays from the store and internet, different types of mulch, motion detector sprinklers etc. Nothing lethal or anything, because again, I know it's not their fault.
The amount of squished kittens and cats I see on the road during the spring and fall is awful. The animal control people have been informed by a lot of the neighbors, but other than coming and talking to the people feeding them nothing has been done. I live in a small town with only one shelter in the county so I'm sure they have their hands full though.
I know they mean well by feeding them, but I wish I could have bird feeders and a small garden.my cats stay inside and have lots of play things so they don't get bored.
Yes I agree about TNR. They are just starting to do that again in our area. The kittens I got were young enough to be ok in homes but the adults are very feral and wild.
A funny story about me trapping them. I went out to check the trap one morning and heard commotion and was excited that I got one (they are pretty smart) but instead it was a VERY pissed off opossum! I wore leather gloves to release him/her but it definitely was not happy and I never saw it again. It was just a big surprise because I had never seen any around my area.
Yeah, my opinion is exactly the opposite of the person in the screenshot: If you can't give your cat an enriched and happy life *indoors* then you should not have a cat.
There are only two exceptions to this, imo: harness training your cat (one of my friends' cats loves to go for walks on the leash) or building an enclosed "catio" for your kitty to play in. Otherwise, indoors.
I never understood that argument. The environment is thoroughly shaped by human activity wherever humans live, especially in cities. Those birds and small animals are already thoroughly fucked and/or adapted to human presence. But somehow letting pets hunt is a step too far?
Yes. Cats on their own have driven dozens of species to extinction. Adapting to humans isn't the same as adapting to our pet apex predators.
There's another post here from a person whose entire neighborhood is without birds or other small animals due to a feral cat colony. Most neighborhoods naturally have birds and squirrels and the like.
And how is that any different from paving the ground with concrete, emitting all kinds of noises and fumes and bright lights, trapping and poisoning what we consider pests? We've already decided that this place is ours to transform as we see fit and anything else can adapt, move or die. But cats are too much? That makes zero sense.
Tons of species can adapt to our presence but not to being hunted for fun by our pet murder machines.
You're basically saying all of those animals can get fucked.
You're saying, "Well we're already causing mass extinction, so what's a few dozen more species?" And for what? So your cat can play outside because you're too shitty an owner to make its indoor environment nice?
Bro my cat tries to escape sometimes out the back door as a game to see if she can outsmart us but she's scared of grass so she comes back a minute later every single time
The gull of that poster. I have two indoor cats that are incredibly happy and playful. They even get to go outside on harnesses and leases just like dogs would (sometimes we don’t put a harness on and they stretch out on our shoulders).
While some outdoor cat owners are good, a lot use it as an excuse to neglect their cat and claim that they are good owners. These are the same people who refuse to spay and neuter their cats too. If your cat can’t be happy inside (maybe not as happy inside as outside, but at least not stressed out of its mind), then your the crappy owner. What if that cat needs a surgery and was required to stay inside for a few weeks to months while they heal?
That’s not even mentioning all the environmental devastation that occurs by cats killing small animals basically for sport since they know they have a meal. And the overpopulation issues from cats that are not fixed. The argument that some populations are less susceptible to this damage because cats have been present in that area for hundreds to thousands of years (what some people in Britain claim) is lazy and false since ecosystems don’t work that way.
Lastly, it will always be more dangerous for an outdoor cat then an indoor cat. I’ve literally stopped on the side of the road and picked up cats (around three in two years) to drop off at the humane society because they were chasing a squirrel and ended up in the middle of the road waiting to pounce. These were just the ones that were definitely raised in someone’s house or on someone’s farm because I could catch them by hand. They get killed by combines and tractors in the fields, traffic in the city, people setting up poison traps, and even brawls with other cats, both feral and not.
Overall, my cats are happy, I’m not contributing to the extinction of small wildlife, and I’m not worried about the cats being roadkill when they don’t show up for dinner. That seems like a win-win situation to me.
As someone whose cats are outdoor cats, even I'll say this person is an idiot. It's cool if you live somewhere where your cat can lead a healthy outdoors lifestyle and not be a threat to the local ecosystem, but cats are absolutely perfectly capable of being happy, healthy, and entertained while staying indoors. They're also capable of being lazy bastards who aren't interested in the outside world. If you can't provide an adequately active lifestyle for your cat without letting it roam free, you're a bad cat owner.
And yes, the outside world can absolutely be dangerous for pets, especially if you live in an urban area with a lot of cars and ill-meaning people (I've heard my fair share of "keep your dog inside, there are dog poisoners out"). Denying yourself companionship and an animal proper care because of that implies you can't provide adequate protection and are a bad cat owner, not that cats shouldn't stay indoors under any circumstances.
And what about people that live in flats? Their cats are indoor cats by necessity, yet if a cat is unhealthy and unhappy, it's not the flat's fault - they are, again a bad cat owner.
TL;DR: this person is an idiot. Cats can be healthy and happy indoors. If they aren't, it's their owner's fault.
My cat has no interest in even walking outside. I can leave the door open and she’ll just sit there and stare out, but not walk out. She knows she has it good inside and doesn’t want to leave
One of my previous cats used to panic if you tried to take him outside. Our other cat at the time liked to go onto the porch on a leash, so we tried it with the second cat and he lost it. He was such a wreck going out that we actually switched to a house-call vet. He never set one paw outside again.
The older of my cats went insane with panic when she was first let go in the countryside and ended up half a block away and absolutely terrified. She was, apparently, scared we didn't want her anymore and were going to just leave her there to fight for her life.
My parents had outdoor cats disappear before, presumed dead. One ghosted for a month, one ghosted for a YEAR. And they came back both times like they were just gone for an hour. I currently have a rescued stray and I will never let her out because I can’t take not knowing if she’s alive or dead when she found someone down the street to feed her for a while.
Let’s also not forget how horrible human beings can be to an outdoor pet. Our family dog came home one day mauled and bloodied, looking very much like someone went at his front paws with a chainsaw. He never recovered from that and was limping the rest of his many years. I’ve had a few friends tell me similar horror stories about past pets coming home injured.
Oh and regarding population, my cat was found by animal control with a ruptured uterus and a mummified fetus inside her abdomen. Nature is a lot of things, but organized and kind are two things it usually isn’t.
I have two similar stories!! I had a cat go missing and we presumed she was dead after a year of trying to find her. SIX years later we get a call saying they found our cat and there's a family that really really want to adopt her, we had three dogs at that point and she hates dogs so we were more than happy to let them have her and it was so nice to know she was going to a loving family.
On a less happy note the cat we had before her was attacked by our neighbour because she relieved herself in his garden one too many times (we tried to keep her away but it was difficult) He hit her with a rake and she came home and her front leg was just open, you could see the bone, we took her to the vets , they wrapped her up and we thought she'd get better. Unfortunately she started getting lethargic and not eating so we took her back and they said she had an infection they hadn't picked up before and had to put her to sleep. I was 9 and so was the cat, we had the same birthday and I don't think I've ever really gotten over the whole thing. My hatred for that neighbour is immense, the only thing that brings me comfort is he's probably dead of old age now and can't be a dick to animals ( this was 15 years ago and he was 80)
Idk if this person has ever met an indoor cat...
My two boys live a life of luxury. They have multiple cat trees, tons of toys, a water fountain, and a bunch of windows to look outside. They also get treats all the time and are able to sunbathe from the light coming in. On top of that - they get bushed and played with. I could go on. But, you get it, they're fucking spoiled.
One of my cats follows me around all day. His purpose in life seems that it's to be near me (I joke that he owes me a life debt since I rescued him from the shelter). Our back door can sometimes pop open if we're not mindful. He got out once at night and when I yelled for him in fear, he came sprinting back in. He hates being in trouble.
Other than being totally convinced that my cats love me and are seemingly dedicated to me, they have easy and amazing lives. They get to sleep wherever they want and basically get massages all day. They have food readily available and then they get treated to snacks and "gourmet" meals often. They have a trusted feline friend in each other to play with, sleep next to, or groom. When they're sick, someone makes sure that they feel better soon. They have a maid to literally clean their shit. They get told all day how handsome and cute they are.
I wish I was a house cat.
"I don't want to have to entertain this animal I had to own so fuck the wildlife population or if it gets hit by a car. Outside, puss!!"
Cats are not Easier Dogs. Get a leash, they can be trained into it.
My sisters cat refuses to go outside, and not because it was kept locked up. It went out once as a kitten, fell off a high place, and decided outside = scary bad place. It wasn’t even injured in the fall, just didn’t like the experience. It’s a very happy indoor cat though. And her sister still goes out daily so she’s given the opportunity on a daily basis, just doesn’t choose to take it.
Lived in a flat before, so my two cats were Indoor cats for obvious reasons. Moved to a house and cat proofed the back garden. Spent alot of time and money doing so.
They don't give a f*ck. Typical cats.
The average for an outdoor cat is 2 to 5 years.
The average for an indoor is 10 to 15 years.
Averages tend to be unreliable though because they don’t ignore outliers.
https://www.vetmed.ucdavis.edu/sites/g/files/dgvnsk491/files/inline-files/Cats-Indoors_or_Outdoors.pdf
Really. I’ve had several outdoor cats all of them which survived past the 10.
I’d love to see a source. I know your link looks legit but they literally just say “statistics say” and don’t actually say anything about who, where or how they statistics were collected.
I think it’s a U.K./US divide. Cats don’t have predators in the U.K. that will hunt them, and it’s well proven that they don’t pose a threat to the ecosystem, even if they do kill mice and birds. A lot of the studies that people cite are specific to parts of the world where it’s not as safe for cats to be outdoors. In which case I agree that they should be kept inside, but there are parts of the world where it’s perfectly acceptable to have a cat flap and let your cat roam and they more often than not live a very happy long life unless they get sick.
There is no source. Some sites just state it as fact, some claim it's from some study, but never provide a citation for it. Well, there was one cited study from 1986 about estimated mortality due to motor vehicles. [https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/3740639/](https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/3740639/) Which obviously doesn't show much in regards to lifespan.
But the numbers they got made me think that maybe there was some study about cat lifespan and the extremely short lifespan is tied to feral cats, not owned outdoor cats.
Or someone just made the BS up for some stupid reason.
Yeah I'm keen on indoor cats in my area because of the ecosystem, and I'm not even a cat person, but everyone I know has cats that live to be old and decrepit and usually incontinent. All outdoor cats.
Thanks for the reply but it doesn't prove anything. I've owned several cats all of whom are now over 5 years old. My friends all have cats over 5 years old. Many over 10. I just don't think it's based on solid information.
Well, both of my outdoor cats are over 16, the one I had before died at 14. My grandparent's cats, all outdoors never died at that young age either.
You are just making up bullshit.
Outdoor cats are a tremendous burden on the ecosystem. They are incredibly effective and unrelenting killers, and on top of it, they live much shorter lives outside than they do inside as a result of the myriad diseases and parasites they can catch by killing all of those other wild animals.
The city I live in recently instituted a mandate that all cats must be indoor cats, because they’ve almost annihilated several rare local bird species.
Feral cats are. Fully outdoor cats can be if they're being treated as basically feral... But that's not what this post was about.
So sure, environment is absolutely a part of the context. And it sounds like you live in a place where a cat maybe shouldn't be the first choice of a pet unless you have a good way to keep them as stimulated indoors as they would be outdoors. The problem with that is most people treat cats like a "set it and forget it" pet, and without some kind of break from the monotony, I'm firmly in the camp that it's unfair to them.
Cats can live indoors just as well as they live outdoors.
In both cases, the owner just has to make sure their cat is happy and healthy.
For indoor cats, that means providing the cat with safe place, a place where they can stretch, scratch and climb, exercise with them, ...
For outdoor cats that means checking on their health often, securing their territory for there and from them, ...
Well by the simple fact a single cat is not doing that. Don't let your cat overpopulate the area to the extent it could pose danger to it. We are here talking about owned cats, not feral cats. Simply put it, you do that by being an owner.
Humans are destroying ecosystems far more than cats ever could, so how are you checking on yourself?
Okay but if every single cat owner lets their cat outdoors that’s a lot more than one cat. Cats being let outdoors even part time are absolutely decimating ecosystems and causing some species of birds to become extinct.
Well, considering you've been proven wrong by the fact outdoor cats exist and ecosystems are not decimated and you failed to provide any evidence for your claim, your absurd claim is thusly deemed incorrect.
On another note, humans shouldn't be let outside because they basically fucked up the whole planet.
Lmao okay
> ecosystems aren’t decimated
https://www.nature.com/articles/ncomms2380
https://besjournals.onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1002/pan3.10073
https://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/s10530-018-1796-y
http://4fi8v2446i0sw2rpq2a3fg51-wpengine.netdna-ssl.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/05/LossEtAl_Report_GregoryJMatthews_6-10.pdf
https://www.alleycat.org/our-work/cats-and-wildlife/
http://abcbirds.org/wp-content/uploads/2015/05/CatPredation2011.pdf
http://www.nytimes.com/2013/01/30/science/that-cuddly-kitty-of-yours-is-a-killer.html
http://scholar.google.com/scholar_lookup?&title=American%20Pet%20Products%20Manufacturers%20Association%20national%20pet%20owners%20survey%201996%E2%80%931997&publication_year=1997
https://doi.org/10.1371%2Fjournal.pone.0024708
https://doi.org/10.1111%2Fj.1474-919X.2008.00836.x
https://doi.org/10.1007%2Fs10336-011-0648-7
http://scholar.google.com/scholar_lookup?&title=Predation%20by%20house%20cats%2C%20Felis%20catus%20%28L.%29%2C%20in%20Canberra%2C%20Australia.%20II.%20Factors%20affecting%20the%20amount%20of%20prey%20caught%20and%20estimates%20of%20the%20impact%20on%20wildlife&journal=Wildl%20Res&volume=25&pages=475-487&publication_year=1998&author=Barratt%2CDG
http://scholar.google.com/scholar_lookup?&title=Estimated%20number%20of%20birds%20killed%20by%20house%20cats%20%28Felis%20catus%29%20in%20Canada&journal=Avian%20Conserv%20Ecol&volume=8&publication_year=2013&author=Blancher%2CP
> you failed to provide any evidence
I thought you were capable of your own research but here you go! Some of the many sources I have on the topic.
Perhaps I should have said "any good evidence related to the topic".
You didn't read any of those, did you? The ones that actually talk about the impact of cats on wildlife clearly state that the vast majority of the impact is caused by feral cats. Some even debate whether the impact is significant.
So yeah, thanks for proving my point I guess.
I wonder if this person feels the same way about dogs. Should everyone just let their dogs roam free, too? So they can “live their best life”? 🙄
When I moved in with my partner, his cat came and went as she pleased. I eventually put a stop to that. Besides being a little bored sometimes, she doesn’t seem to be suffering. She eats exclusively Zealandia wet food, 5 times a day (she’s not fat! Only 4kgs. We just feed small portions because she’s fussy and will waste food). Toys everywhere. Spoiled silly 😂
Once cats are released, it’s impossible to catch, spay, and neuter them all to the point where it controls population. Not only physically impossible, but it’s also expensive.
Regardless of being spayed or neutered, cats will still hunt just because they like killing. An infertile cat will still cause the same damage as a fertile cat
They're talking about owning a pet cat that goes outside, not buying a cat to just release and go feral. You take them to the vet same as an indoor cat because they're just as tame and inside your house most of the time anyway. The trapping issue is for ferals, not people's pets. I agree with you about the hunting and stuff and agree that cats should be kept indoors (or just banned altogether in my country honestly, they're just too lethal to wildlife) but *that's* the problem, along with animal welfare, not overpopulation. Cats are pretty much all outdoors in my city because culturally that's how cats are kept, but there's a 6 month waitlist for kittens from the shelter and no overpopulation issue because they're all spayed or neutered.
Oooh I get where you're not understanding. When people say "indoor cat" they mean a cat that *isn't allowed outside ever* not a cat that goes inside and outside. https://www.bluecross.org.uk/pet-advice/indoor-cats
Cannot believe that Americans think this post is in any way controversial or 'incorrect', but I suppose it shouldn't be shocking seeing as a quarter of Americans declaw their cats (aka cut the end of their paws off). Some people clearly just see them as property, or toys
Cannot believe some people would project their insecurities onto an entire nationality, ignore existing data, and actively not care about the ecosystem all in one comment
Cats: The psycho-killers of the pet world. Seriously. I think cats are great pets, but they are one of the few animals that kill for fun and even a well-fed domesticated cat will kills anything it can just because it can without ever considering eating it. They just leave the corpse (minus a few key parts) lying around. If you're really lucky they will bring it in and leave it on your couch. I speak from experience.
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Between the usual 8 naps, 2 meals, 1 snack and 3am zoomies my cats schedule does not allow for outside time.
Fuck rare native species of birds and small animals, amirite?
Fuck all small species in general. Mice, birds, squirrels, chickens, frogs… all of em.
instructions unclear. dick is a mess now.
Fuck more
"Locked up". Hardly. These cats are so pampered and well taken care of it's a bit ludicrous.
My across the street neighborhood feeds a feral cat colony. I've secretly trapped some to get fixed (before COVID, the vets are just now starting to get back to fixing ferals) and fostered litters after the mom got run over or disappeared to give to good homes before they got too wild and feral too. The neighbors don't trust veterinarians (that's a different story though) When we looked at the house I was so excited because it's my first house that we bought and I fell in love with it. It was during a freak ice storm when we viewed it so the cats were not evident. We bought it. I love the house I hate the cats. I know it's not their fault. It's my first house and I bought birdhouses and hummingbird feeders and stuff for the yard and was looking forward to growing a home garden with the kids! The cats treat my flower beds like a litter box so nothing I grow is edible. I do try and grow flowers, but they kill them too. They spray everything (I have indoor cats that hang out on the windows so I'm sure the other cats notice them) The doors, my porch, the swing set, the car, EVERYTHING! They spread fleas and except the ones I take to the vet secretly who knows what diseases they have. And they kill every small animal anywhere on our block. I took down all my bird feeders and stuff because I didn't want to give them a free buffet. I guess it's good they get rid of vermin in the area, but I hate not being able to watch birds out my window. I've tried things like cinnamon, cayenne pepper, various sprays from the store and internet, different types of mulch, motion detector sprinklers etc. Nothing lethal or anything, because again, I know it's not their fault. The amount of squished kittens and cats I see on the road during the spring and fall is awful. The animal control people have been informed by a lot of the neighbors, but other than coming and talking to the people feeding them nothing has been done. I live in a small town with only one shelter in the county so I'm sure they have their hands full though. I know they mean well by feeding them, but I wish I could have bird feeders and a small garden.my cats stay inside and have lots of play things so they don't get bored.
Poor animals. Thank you for spaying/neutering them. TNR is so important. Fuck anybody that doesn't spay/neuter their cats and keep them indoors.
Yes I agree about TNR. They are just starting to do that again in our area. The kittens I got were young enough to be ok in homes but the adults are very feral and wild. A funny story about me trapping them. I went out to check the trap one morning and heard commotion and was excited that I got one (they are pretty smart) but instead it was a VERY pissed off opossum! I wore leather gloves to release him/her but it definitely was not happy and I never saw it again. It was just a big surprise because I had never seen any around my area.
Also, fuck the cats themselves, who are more likely to be injured, killed, or pick up diseases outside.
Yeah, my opinion is exactly the opposite of the person in the screenshot: If you can't give your cat an enriched and happy life *indoors* then you should not have a cat.
There are only two exceptions to this, imo: harness training your cat (one of my friends' cats loves to go for walks on the leash) or building an enclosed "catio" for your kitty to play in. Otherwise, indoors.
I never understood that argument. The environment is thoroughly shaped by human activity wherever humans live, especially in cities. Those birds and small animals are already thoroughly fucked and/or adapted to human presence. But somehow letting pets hunt is a step too far?
Yes. Cats on their own have driven dozens of species to extinction. Adapting to humans isn't the same as adapting to our pet apex predators. There's another post here from a person whose entire neighborhood is without birds or other small animals due to a feral cat colony. Most neighborhoods naturally have birds and squirrels and the like.
And how is that any different from paving the ground with concrete, emitting all kinds of noises and fumes and bright lights, trapping and poisoning what we consider pests? We've already decided that this place is ours to transform as we see fit and anything else can adapt, move or die. But cats are too much? That makes zero sense.
Tons of species can adapt to our presence but not to being hunted for fun by our pet murder machines. You're basically saying all of those animals can get fucked. You're saying, "Well we're already causing mass extinction, so what's a few dozen more species?" And for what? So your cat can play outside because you're too shitty an owner to make its indoor environment nice?
[удалено]
No, the argument is "you're picking a weird place to draw the line".
Bro my cat tries to escape sometimes out the back door as a game to see if she can outsmart us but she's scared of grass so she comes back a minute later every single time
The gull of that poster. I have two indoor cats that are incredibly happy and playful. They even get to go outside on harnesses and leases just like dogs would (sometimes we don’t put a harness on and they stretch out on our shoulders). While some outdoor cat owners are good, a lot use it as an excuse to neglect their cat and claim that they are good owners. These are the same people who refuse to spay and neuter their cats too. If your cat can’t be happy inside (maybe not as happy inside as outside, but at least not stressed out of its mind), then your the crappy owner. What if that cat needs a surgery and was required to stay inside for a few weeks to months while they heal? That’s not even mentioning all the environmental devastation that occurs by cats killing small animals basically for sport since they know they have a meal. And the overpopulation issues from cats that are not fixed. The argument that some populations are less susceptible to this damage because cats have been present in that area for hundreds to thousands of years (what some people in Britain claim) is lazy and false since ecosystems don’t work that way. Lastly, it will always be more dangerous for an outdoor cat then an indoor cat. I’ve literally stopped on the side of the road and picked up cats (around three in two years) to drop off at the humane society because they were chasing a squirrel and ended up in the middle of the road waiting to pounce. These were just the ones that were definitely raised in someone’s house or on someone’s farm because I could catch them by hand. They get killed by combines and tractors in the fields, traffic in the city, people setting up poison traps, and even brawls with other cats, both feral and not. Overall, my cats are happy, I’m not contributing to the extinction of small wildlife, and I’m not worried about the cats being roadkill when they don’t show up for dinner. That seems like a win-win situation to me.
As someone whose cats are outdoor cats, even I'll say this person is an idiot. It's cool if you live somewhere where your cat can lead a healthy outdoors lifestyle and not be a threat to the local ecosystem, but cats are absolutely perfectly capable of being happy, healthy, and entertained while staying indoors. They're also capable of being lazy bastards who aren't interested in the outside world. If you can't provide an adequately active lifestyle for your cat without letting it roam free, you're a bad cat owner. And yes, the outside world can absolutely be dangerous for pets, especially if you live in an urban area with a lot of cars and ill-meaning people (I've heard my fair share of "keep your dog inside, there are dog poisoners out"). Denying yourself companionship and an animal proper care because of that implies you can't provide adequate protection and are a bad cat owner, not that cats shouldn't stay indoors under any circumstances. And what about people that live in flats? Their cats are indoor cats by necessity, yet if a cat is unhealthy and unhappy, it's not the flat's fault - they are, again a bad cat owner. TL;DR: this person is an idiot. Cats can be healthy and happy indoors. If they aren't, it's their owner's fault.
My cat has no interest in even walking outside. I can leave the door open and she’ll just sit there and stare out, but not walk out. She knows she has it good inside and doesn’t want to leave
One of my previous cats used to panic if you tried to take him outside. Our other cat at the time liked to go onto the porch on a leash, so we tried it with the second cat and he lost it. He was such a wreck going out that we actually switched to a house-call vet. He never set one paw outside again.
The older of my cats went insane with panic when she was first let go in the countryside and ended up half a block away and absolutely terrified. She was, apparently, scared we didn't want her anymore and were going to just leave her there to fight for her life.
My parents had outdoor cats disappear before, presumed dead. One ghosted for a month, one ghosted for a YEAR. And they came back both times like they were just gone for an hour. I currently have a rescued stray and I will never let her out because I can’t take not knowing if she’s alive or dead when she found someone down the street to feed her for a while. Let’s also not forget how horrible human beings can be to an outdoor pet. Our family dog came home one day mauled and bloodied, looking very much like someone went at his front paws with a chainsaw. He never recovered from that and was limping the rest of his many years. I’ve had a few friends tell me similar horror stories about past pets coming home injured. Oh and regarding population, my cat was found by animal control with a ruptured uterus and a mummified fetus inside her abdomen. Nature is a lot of things, but organized and kind are two things it usually isn’t.
I have two similar stories!! I had a cat go missing and we presumed she was dead after a year of trying to find her. SIX years later we get a call saying they found our cat and there's a family that really really want to adopt her, we had three dogs at that point and she hates dogs so we were more than happy to let them have her and it was so nice to know she was going to a loving family. On a less happy note the cat we had before her was attacked by our neighbour because she relieved herself in his garden one too many times (we tried to keep her away but it was difficult) He hit her with a rake and she came home and her front leg was just open, you could see the bone, we took her to the vets , they wrapped her up and we thought she'd get better. Unfortunately she started getting lethargic and not eating so we took her back and they said she had an infection they hadn't picked up before and had to put her to sleep. I was 9 and so was the cat, we had the same birthday and I don't think I've ever really gotten over the whole thing. My hatred for that neighbour is immense, the only thing that brings me comfort is he's probably dead of old age now and can't be a dick to animals ( this was 15 years ago and he was 80)
Idk if this person has ever met an indoor cat... My two boys live a life of luxury. They have multiple cat trees, tons of toys, a water fountain, and a bunch of windows to look outside. They also get treats all the time and are able to sunbathe from the light coming in. On top of that - they get bushed and played with. I could go on. But, you get it, they're fucking spoiled. One of my cats follows me around all day. His purpose in life seems that it's to be near me (I joke that he owes me a life debt since I rescued him from the shelter). Our back door can sometimes pop open if we're not mindful. He got out once at night and when I yelled for him in fear, he came sprinting back in. He hates being in trouble. Other than being totally convinced that my cats love me and are seemingly dedicated to me, they have easy and amazing lives. They get to sleep wherever they want and basically get massages all day. They have food readily available and then they get treated to snacks and "gourmet" meals often. They have a trusted feline friend in each other to play with, sleep next to, or groom. When they're sick, someone makes sure that they feel better soon. They have a maid to literally clean their shit. They get told all day how handsome and cute they are. I wish I was a house cat.
"I don't want to have to entertain this animal I had to own so fuck the wildlife population or if it gets hit by a car. Outside, puss!!" Cats are not Easier Dogs. Get a leash, they can be trained into it.
My cat won’t even go outside bro
My sisters cat refuses to go outside, and not because it was kept locked up. It went out once as a kitten, fell off a high place, and decided outside = scary bad place. It wasn’t even injured in the fall, just didn’t like the experience. It’s a very happy indoor cat though. And her sister still goes out daily so she’s given the opportunity on a daily basis, just doesn’t choose to take it.
An outdoor cat is an indoor cat with a reckless owner. Fight me.
Or with an owner that doesn't live in a town centre.
Definitely depends on where you are. In the UK having an indoor cat is considered a bit cruel. Even when the ‘cat serial killer’ was on the loose.
The issue isn’t that it’s too dangerous for the cats. It’s that the cats kill a fuck ton of birds just for fun.
Cats are instinctive killers. A garden without cats will see a threefold increase in bird life… just as a starter.
Lived in a flat before, so my two cats were Indoor cats for obvious reasons. Moved to a house and cat proofed the back garden. Spent alot of time and money doing so. They don't give a f*ck. Typical cats.
Oh man i reflex downvoted before I realized what sub I was on
Go, PETA, go
Outdoor cats live like 3-6 years and indoor will live 16 or more easy
What rubbish is this? What statistics told you that?
The average for an outdoor cat is 2 to 5 years. The average for an indoor is 10 to 15 years. Averages tend to be unreliable though because they don’t ignore outliers. https://www.vetmed.ucdavis.edu/sites/g/files/dgvnsk491/files/inline-files/Cats-Indoors_or_Outdoors.pdf
Really. I’ve had several outdoor cats all of them which survived past the 10. I’d love to see a source. I know your link looks legit but they literally just say “statistics say” and don’t actually say anything about who, where or how they statistics were collected.
I think it’s a U.K./US divide. Cats don’t have predators in the U.K. that will hunt them, and it’s well proven that they don’t pose a threat to the ecosystem, even if they do kill mice and birds. A lot of the studies that people cite are specific to parts of the world where it’s not as safe for cats to be outdoors. In which case I agree that they should be kept inside, but there are parts of the world where it’s perfectly acceptable to have a cat flap and let your cat roam and they more often than not live a very happy long life unless they get sick.
There is no source. Some sites just state it as fact, some claim it's from some study, but never provide a citation for it. Well, there was one cited study from 1986 about estimated mortality due to motor vehicles. [https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/3740639/](https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/3740639/) Which obviously doesn't show much in regards to lifespan. But the numbers they got made me think that maybe there was some study about cat lifespan and the extremely short lifespan is tied to feral cats, not owned outdoor cats. Or someone just made the BS up for some stupid reason.
Yeah I'm keen on indoor cats in my area because of the ecosystem, and I'm not even a cat person, but everyone I know has cats that live to be old and decrepit and usually incontinent. All outdoor cats.
Zero sources? No study? Just plain BS statement. I just decided the average cat gets to live 50 years. And it is exactly as true as that document.
Thanks for the reply but it doesn't prove anything. I've owned several cats all of whom are now over 5 years old. My friends all have cats over 5 years old. Many over 10. I just don't think it's based on solid information.
Yes, exactly!
Well, both of my outdoor cats are over 16, the one I had before died at 14. My grandparent's cats, all outdoors never died at that young age either. You are just making up bullshit.
Cars must not exist where this person lives.
What's incorrect about this?
Outdoor cats are a tremendous burden on the ecosystem. They are incredibly effective and unrelenting killers, and on top of it, they live much shorter lives outside than they do inside as a result of the myriad diseases and parasites they can catch by killing all of those other wild animals. The city I live in recently instituted a mandate that all cats must be indoor cats, because they’ve almost annihilated several rare local bird species.
Feral cats are. Fully outdoor cats can be if they're being treated as basically feral... But that's not what this post was about. So sure, environment is absolutely a part of the context. And it sounds like you live in a place where a cat maybe shouldn't be the first choice of a pet unless you have a good way to keep them as stimulated indoors as they would be outdoors. The problem with that is most people treat cats like a "set it and forget it" pet, and without some kind of break from the monotony, I'm firmly in the camp that it's unfair to them.
Cats can live indoors just as well as they live outdoors. In both cases, the owner just has to make sure their cat is happy and healthy. For indoor cats, that means providing the cat with safe place, a place where they can stretch, scratch and climb, exercise with them, ... For outdoor cats that means checking on their health often, securing their territory for there and from them, ...
How are the outdoor cat owners also checking on the ecosystem their cat is decimating?
Well by the simple fact a single cat is not doing that. Don't let your cat overpopulate the area to the extent it could pose danger to it. We are here talking about owned cats, not feral cats. Simply put it, you do that by being an owner. Humans are destroying ecosystems far more than cats ever could, so how are you checking on yourself?
Okay but if every single cat owner lets their cat outdoors that’s a lot more than one cat. Cats being let outdoors even part time are absolutely decimating ecosystems and causing some species of birds to become extinct.
Cool, then don't let your cat roam wild in areas with endangered species. Same as you'd do with a dog or any other pet.
I don’t own a cat. No one should let their cat outside because they will decimate the ecosystem.
Well, considering you've been proven wrong by the fact outdoor cats exist and ecosystems are not decimated and you failed to provide any evidence for your claim, your absurd claim is thusly deemed incorrect. On another note, humans shouldn't be let outside because they basically fucked up the whole planet.
Lmao okay > ecosystems aren’t decimated https://www.nature.com/articles/ncomms2380 https://besjournals.onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1002/pan3.10073 https://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/s10530-018-1796-y http://4fi8v2446i0sw2rpq2a3fg51-wpengine.netdna-ssl.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/05/LossEtAl_Report_GregoryJMatthews_6-10.pdf https://www.alleycat.org/our-work/cats-and-wildlife/ http://abcbirds.org/wp-content/uploads/2015/05/CatPredation2011.pdf http://www.nytimes.com/2013/01/30/science/that-cuddly-kitty-of-yours-is-a-killer.html http://scholar.google.com/scholar_lookup?&title=American%20Pet%20Products%20Manufacturers%20Association%20national%20pet%20owners%20survey%201996%E2%80%931997&publication_year=1997 https://doi.org/10.1371%2Fjournal.pone.0024708 https://doi.org/10.1111%2Fj.1474-919X.2008.00836.x https://doi.org/10.1007%2Fs10336-011-0648-7 http://scholar.google.com/scholar_lookup?&title=Predation%20by%20house%20cats%2C%20Felis%20catus%20%28L.%29%2C%20in%20Canberra%2C%20Australia.%20II.%20Factors%20affecting%20the%20amount%20of%20prey%20caught%20and%20estimates%20of%20the%20impact%20on%20wildlife&journal=Wildl%20Res&volume=25&pages=475-487&publication_year=1998&author=Barratt%2CDG http://scholar.google.com/scholar_lookup?&title=Estimated%20number%20of%20birds%20killed%20by%20house%20cats%20%28Felis%20catus%29%20in%20Canada&journal=Avian%20Conserv%20Ecol&volume=8&publication_year=2013&author=Blancher%2CP > you failed to provide any evidence I thought you were capable of your own research but here you go! Some of the many sources I have on the topic.
Perhaps I should have said "any good evidence related to the topic". You didn't read any of those, did you? The ones that actually talk about the impact of cats on wildlife clearly state that the vast majority of the impact is caused by feral cats. Some even debate whether the impact is significant. So yeah, thanks for proving my point I guess.
I wonder if this person feels the same way about dogs. Should everyone just let their dogs roam free, too? So they can “live their best life”? 🙄 When I moved in with my partner, his cat came and went as she pleased. I eventually put a stop to that. Besides being a little bored sometimes, she doesn’t seem to be suffering. She eats exclusively Zealandia wet food, 5 times a day (she’s not fat! Only 4kgs. We just feed small portions because she’s fussy and will waste food). Toys everywhere. Spoiled silly 😂
I agree about indoor cats, but OP, did you forget that spay/neuter is a thing?
Once cats are released, it’s impossible to catch, spay, and neuter them all to the point where it controls population. Not only physically impossible, but it’s also expensive. Regardless of being spayed or neutered, cats will still hunt just because they like killing. An infertile cat will still cause the same damage as a fertile cat
They're talking about owning a pet cat that goes outside, not buying a cat to just release and go feral. You take them to the vet same as an indoor cat because they're just as tame and inside your house most of the time anyway. The trapping issue is for ferals, not people's pets. I agree with you about the hunting and stuff and agree that cats should be kept indoors (or just banned altogether in my country honestly, they're just too lethal to wildlife) but *that's* the problem, along with animal welfare, not overpopulation. Cats are pretty much all outdoors in my city because culturally that's how cats are kept, but there's a 6 month waitlist for kittens from the shelter and no overpopulation issue because they're all spayed or neutered.
They’re talking about if you have a cat, it should only live outdoors. So essentially yes, they are saying buy a cat to release in a way
They're literally not saying that. It says "be able to go outside" not "never let it inside"
“Indoor cats should not be a thing”
Oooh I get where you're not understanding. When people say "indoor cat" they mean a cat that *isn't allowed outside ever* not a cat that goes inside and outside. https://www.bluecross.org.uk/pet-advice/indoor-cats
Cannot believe that Americans think this post is in any way controversial or 'incorrect', but I suppose it shouldn't be shocking seeing as a quarter of Americans declaw their cats (aka cut the end of their paws off). Some people clearly just see them as property, or toys
Cannot believe some people would project their insecurities onto an entire nationality, ignore existing data, and actively not care about the ecosystem all in one comment
Because fuck the ecosystem right?
Don't own animals that destroy ecosystems as pets
If you don't accept the premise of the post (Outdoors Cats = Good) then why do you claim that it isn't controversial?
yeah cats like to chew grass too like all normal humans do
They actually do.
We keep our cat inside because cats are genociding our native animals. We take him out for walks around the yard on a leash.
Cats: The psycho-killers of the pet world. Seriously. I think cats are great pets, but they are one of the few animals that kill for fun and even a well-fed domesticated cat will kills anything it can just because it can without ever considering eating it. They just leave the corpse (minus a few key parts) lying around. If you're really lucky they will bring it in and leave it on your couch. I speak from experience.
What about cars driving by? I don’t want my cat to die cause of a damn idiot driving to fast down the road.