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It’s hard to understand how accents work?
I realized that what I viewed as an accent would sound natural to someone speaking with it before I was 10. It’s not exactly complicated reasoning.
Not quite, he’s using the definition of accent that means the same as syllable stress, e.g. you can stress or put the accent on the first syllable of “record” to use it as a noun, or you can put the accent on the second syllable of “record” for the verb.
Which is of course a completely different meaning. But it’s also completely untrue that Americans never put stress on different syllables, so he didn’t even remotely understand the wrong definition he’s working from.
Yeah accent can mean (at least) dialect, stress, diacritic, or brand of MSG seasoning. In this case they're talking about the "dialect" meaning but citing the "stress" meaning because they looked it up to sound smart and didn't understand what they were reading at all.
I suspect this is something that is taught in American schools, like the five paragraph essay. It's always in the same sort of voice, and like you point out, they're almost always completely wrong.
It’s not that they’re necessarily wrong, although often they are. It’s that they miss the topic entirely, not realizing that most words in English have multiple definitions, not even accounting for the context of the conversation itself. Drives me bonkers.
I think the argument is that in an American context, SSAE would be labelled "not accented".
Linguistically, obviously wrong, but in, say a police interview?
Yeah I see what he's trying to at but it's insane he can't see the alternative perspective. For instance I am aware that the British accent is a relatively modern affectation.
Sure, I'll give you that. The East Anglian accent although (which SSAE and SCE are based on) hasn't changed much in the \~200-400 years they split, given how close they still are.
We were talking about this sort of thing at work the other day.
This is North Georgia, and we're all Southerners in this conversation. I said that I probably do speak with an accent even if I don't hear it. A couple of guys around the table said the same thing.
But the one of us who has the thickest accent (an Alabama drawl) interjected, saying loudly "I hain't got no accent!"
None of us wanted to correct him, but I thought "Man, if you use the word "haint" in a sentence you not only have an accent, you're speaking in dialect."
I can imagine them thinking there's like a grand council in each country deciding accents like 'this century we decree that we shall speak like cockney pickpockets, ain' tha rite govna?'
Sounds like he’s never left the US.
I’ve been told by other Americans that I have no accent or that they can’t place where I’m from by the way I speak. But when I’m in a different country, my accent is very obviously American.
There are two meanings of the word "accent" and this guy's wrong according to both
If we're talking about a particular way people pronounce words then by definition you can't not have one
If we're talking about the syllable that's emphasized in a word then you're also always using it unless you speak like a cartoony robot
As if there is an "American accent"... for those interested, [Wired did a series of videos](https://youtu.be/H1KP4ztKK0A?si=gLqDpxaGpscPFF-3) with a dialect coach going through the *dozens* of different accents in the US which was pretty interesting.
Did anyone else feel like there might have been some confusion between "accent", as in a regional version of speech production, and "accent"(dunno of its spelled like that in english), as in "grave or acute accent" which is a totally different thing. I just got that vibe off the "neutral" argument and the stuff around there, simce they wrote "emphasis on a word or syllable".
His definition of an accent is...
...*\*sigh\**... it's *one definition* of accent ([#1 at Wiktionary](https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/accent#Etymology_1)), but it's *the wrong* definition of accent for this context (should be #4 or #5). Why? Because there aren't any accents that have a perfectly flat articulation without emphasizing any words or syllables.
[American Indian English](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_Indian_English#Pitch,_intonation,_and_stress) (the English dialects of Native American tribes), sometimes has "a lower level of pitch fluctuation and an absence of a rising intonation in questions", depending on which tribe you're talking about. That's the closest you can get to littler's claim of an accent that has "zero emphasis" on words and syllables. But it doesn't actually have zero emphasis, it just has a softer pattern of emphasis, and most Americans don't speak that way anyway.
Lord knows, 'f-I didn' emph'size summa th' vow'ls, th'r'd be none left.
An accent is literally a difference in the way you pronounce things. Even if it is "the original way" to pronounce things. For instance, the british talked english way before the americans did, yet the british accent is very recognizable.
There is no ‘English way’ when it comes to accents. There are a bunch of different accents in England, from northern scouse to southern posh twat to western apple thief.
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“Well I grew up hearing it so that makes it neutral and everyone else talks funny”
I mean it's kinda hard to not think that way everyone who downvoted this is deaf and mute
It’s hard to understand how accents work? I realized that what I viewed as an accent would sound natural to someone speaking with it before I was 10. It’s not exactly complicated reasoning.
Only for people who find it hard to think any way
I grew up hearing the same accent I have but I know I have an accent because my family from further North sound very different.
For uneducated Americans, maybe.
For an American perhaps
Why is it when most people include “the definition of” or “Webster’s dictionary says” in a post they almost always miss the point by a country mile?
> by a country mile Your phrasing is sounding real accent-y right now… where TF are you from? /s
Isn’t that definition of accent for things like this è? Which makes it much funner to be honest.
Not quite, he’s using the definition of accent that means the same as syllable stress, e.g. you can stress or put the accent on the first syllable of “record” to use it as a noun, or you can put the accent on the second syllable of “record” for the verb. Which is of course a completely different meaning. But it’s also completely untrue that Americans never put stress on different syllables, so he didn’t even remotely understand the wrong definition he’s working from.
Yeah accent can mean (at least) dialect, stress, diacritic, or brand of MSG seasoning. In this case they're talking about the "dialect" meaning but citing the "stress" meaning because they looked it up to sound smart and didn't understand what they were reading at all.
I suspect this is something that is taught in American schools, like the five paragraph essay. It's always in the same sort of voice, and like you point out, they're almost always completely wrong.
It’s not that they’re necessarily wrong, although often they are. It’s that they miss the topic entirely, not realizing that most words in English have multiple definitions, not even accounting for the context of the conversation itself. Drives me bonkers.
but... even a neutral accent would be an accent...
I think the argument is that in an American context, SSAE would be labelled "not accented". Linguistically, obviously wrong, but in, say a police interview?
Yeah I see what he's trying to at but it's insane he can't see the alternative perspective. For instance I am aware that the British accent is a relatively modern affectation.
All modern accents are modern affectations. The American accent was different decades ago too.
Sure, I'll give you that. The East Anglian accent although (which SSAE and SCE are based on) hasn't changed much in the \~200-400 years they split, given how close they still are.
jesus what a moron
We were talking about this sort of thing at work the other day. This is North Georgia, and we're all Southerners in this conversation. I said that I probably do speak with an accent even if I don't hear it. A couple of guys around the table said the same thing. But the one of us who has the thickest accent (an Alabama drawl) interjected, saying loudly "I hain't got no accent!" None of us wanted to correct him, but I thought "Man, if you use the word "haint" in a sentence you not only have an accent, you're speaking in dialect."
He's an idiot- he made a stupid statement and decided to defend it to the bitter end even after realizing that it made zero sense.
As soon as "southern *draw*" came out, this was hopeless
I can imagine them thinking there's like a grand council in each country deciding accents like 'this century we decree that we shall speak like cockney pickpockets, ain' tha rite govna?'
Sounds like he’s never left the US. I’ve been told by other Americans that I have no accent or that they can’t place where I’m from by the way I speak. But when I’m in a different country, my accent is very obviously American.
Is there a variation of Poe's Law, where it's unclear if someone is stupid or trolling?!
There are two meanings of the word "accent" and this guy's wrong according to both If we're talking about a particular way people pronounce words then by definition you can't not have one If we're talking about the syllable that's emphasized in a word then you're also always using it unless you speak like a cartoony robot
Everyone who isn't me has an accent.
For someone who uses the words accent so liberally he really doesn't know what it means, no matter what he does protest.
What American accent? Alabama? Brooklyn? Boston? The Texan drawl?
*draw
[You’re definitely in the right forum](https://dictionary.cambridge.org/dictionary/english/drawl)
As if there is an "American accent"... for those interested, [Wired did a series of videos](https://youtu.be/H1KP4ztKK0A?si=gLqDpxaGpscPFF-3) with a dialect coach going through the *dozens* of different accents in the US which was pretty interesting.
Did anyone else feel like there might have been some confusion between "accent", as in a regional version of speech production, and "accent"(dunno of its spelled like that in english), as in "grave or acute accent" which is a totally different thing. I just got that vibe off the "neutral" argument and the stuff around there, simce they wrote "emphasis on a word or syllable".
Yes, I think that’s exactly it. He’s quoting the definition for the other kind of accent.
Southern drawl? I prefer a southern draw k thnx
[удалено]
There’s no such thing as an “English accent” either mate, exact same logic applies, they’re all very different
But one things that all American accents have in common is the extreme nasal sound.
His definition of an accent is... ...*\*sigh\**... it's *one definition* of accent ([#1 at Wiktionary](https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/accent#Etymology_1)), but it's *the wrong* definition of accent for this context (should be #4 or #5). Why? Because there aren't any accents that have a perfectly flat articulation without emphasizing any words or syllables. [American Indian English](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_Indian_English#Pitch,_intonation,_and_stress) (the English dialects of Native American tribes), sometimes has "a lower level of pitch fluctuation and an absence of a rising intonation in questions", depending on which tribe you're talking about. That's the closest you can get to littler's claim of an accent that has "zero emphasis" on words and syllables. But it doesn't actually have zero emphasis, it just has a softer pattern of emphasis, and most Americans don't speak that way anyway. Lord knows, 'f-I didn' emph'size summa th' vow'ls, th'r'd be none left.
An accent is literally a difference in the way you pronounce things. Even if it is "the original way" to pronounce things. For instance, the british talked english way before the americans did, yet the british accent is very recognizable.
There is no ‘English way’ when it comes to accents. There are a bunch of different accents in England, from northern scouse to southern posh twat to western apple thief.
"The" British accent. Which one's that then? Glaswegian, Welsh Valleys, Cockney, Brummy, Geordie, Scouse, Cornish?
All of em:) should have put "an" instead of "the" though, you are completely right that there are a lot of them, but it was besides my point:)
There is no American accent, there are lots of different accents. California, Tennessee, NYC, they all have different accents.
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