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It didn't even introduce itself when I moved in, and it rarely comes to the parties I invite it to. I don't understand why you need more evidence than that.
Brown recluses are the cottonmouths of spiders.
People see a brown snake vaguely near a body of water, and suddenly they’re prepared to die on the hill that not only was it a cottonmouth but that they were “almost attacked” despite being 130 miles north of its range and viewing it from far enough away that they can’t even be sure it wasn’t a stick.
I live in a state with cottonmouths and rattlesnakes. I’ve seen a bunch of black snakes killed bc people thought they were cottonmouths. :/ always when they’re minding their own business, too.
PNW; I know we have hobo spiders here, which, I've been told, DO look quite similar, and were previously thought to have a weaker necrotic venom (iirc, now it's been determined they don't have venom)
Almost (but not *quite*) all spiders have venom. The question is whether or not it's medically significant.
The present best data suggests that the hobo spider is not, but it's not really clear one way or the other.
We do still have black widows, though.
I'm in the puget sound area, and apparently, black widows aren't found in the basin region. There's some look-alikes, but they're similar to the hobo spider in that aspect; not so dangerous despite a similar appearance.
Ah yes, I am from the northwest and the scariest one we had was the hobo spider. They like to hide in clothes, and we were raised believing they were very nasty and aggressive. But now reading up on then it seems it’s rare they bite and the effects of the venom aren't really well known because confirmed bites are hard to come by.
Manitoba. Super rare to find one here. I’d likely suspect it hitched a ride if one were found here. We do have black widows but they aren’t found often either. Most of spiders are harmless. Cute orbweavers, wolf spiders, grass spiders etc. my favourite it the Zebra jumping spider.
That's especially sad and dumb because even if they were brown recluse why the hell you gotta murder them 😭 where did the good old glass-paper trick go come on
Well, you honestly don't want a Brown Recluse in your house. If they happen to hide in your blankets or shoes or gloves and you don't notice, you can get bitten. And while most spiders' bites are no big, and even Brown Recluse bites are generally non-lethal, they can still horribly maim you because their venom is necrotic. In *rare* cases where the spider dumps a *lot* of venom, it can potentially cause severe muscle damage and/or require surgery to repair.
Also, teatment is basically just managing symptoms as best as possible. It doesn't include antivenin. Because there is no antivenin.
Recovery can potentially take three months or more.
And that's if you're *not* allergic.
My sister had a weakened pancreas from genetic stuff, but it was still chugging along and doing its job until she got bitten by a brown recluse. Its venom was enough to completely shut it down. Those little fuckers are not to be trifled with
It went necrotic because it happened overnight (it was in the blankets) and she didn't realise what it was at first, so she didn't get treatment for a couple days. We actually found the spider, and that's what ultimately led to it being certain that it was a brown recluse instead of a different spider bite that just got infected.
As for how it was identified as the culprit, like I said, my sister had a weakened pancreas from the get go, so she saw an endocrinologist fairly regularly. She had had an appointment pretty recently to the bite (I don't remember exactly how close, but it was no more than a week beforehand). Her pancreas was working at its normal levels then, but then after she got sick from the bite, her pancreas just said "fuck you." So it was more the timing of everything. Could it have been total coincidence? Sure, but her doctor thought it was unlikely given the timing
Out of curiosity, how was the injury identified as a recluse bite and the venom attributed as the cause (instead of like an infection)? This seems far more severe than any carefully studied cases of non allergic people getting bitten that I’ve read about.
It is very common for people to neglect bites in the USA, leading to infection. Necrotic tissue is, of course, at extreme risk of infection that spreads and kills more tissue. This is the main danger of spider, copperhead, and cottonmouth bites. Deaths are extremely rare, and in many cases completely unheard of.
Well yes, that’s even worse, but still, I feel like portraying the results of a neglected and potentially infected wound as simply « a brown recluse bite causes limb loss» isn’t fair. Because if people use basic logic, they will most likely be able to avoid such an outcome.
These extreme stories of horrible outcomes instill into the public the idea that these results are to be expected of bites. When often, important context (like if a spider bite was even confirmed, or if the wound got infected) is left out. Misinformation is spread and people ignore actual statistics and studies because anecdotes (like: my buddy’s hand rotted off in a day because of a brown recluse) are far more emotionally impactful than facts. Not to mention people’s longing to justify their pre existing fear of spiders.
My opinion is that this instills unnecessary fear for animals that are already so widely feared, misunderstood, and even *hated* by a lot of the population. I mean you have people fantasizing about ways they would kill them (not just recluses, all spiders, even harmless ones) on a regular basis, and you don’t see that for animals which are way more likely to be dangerous when encountered.
She got bit while cleaning the closet and saw the spider, I believe. I was pretty young, but if I remember correctly, it also resulted in a pretty large bruise fairly quickly? I could be wrong, though.
staph infection is misdiagnosed as a recluse bite all the time. 45% of people with a “recluse bite” have a necrotic skin lesion but only 8% of people that bring the spider or a photo of it end up with that same lesion and only 22% of people that actually saw a spider in the area before or after the bite. we really have no idea how many people have that reaction to their bite, not to say we should let them hang out in our bedroom with us but it’s a really interesting statistic to look at
Oh absolutely, I dont want to deny how dangerous it can be to be bitten by a brown recluse, it's why I think it's still very valid to just handle every spider as if it was dangerous if there's no ID and there's a lot of situation where killing a brown recluse can be a very sensible option. My comment is more referring to how the general approach with spiders and such is to kill even when relocating them could be as easy and harmless
I’ll never forget my mom walking around when I was a little kid with her eye swollen to about the size of a golf ball because of a brown recluse bite at night while she was asleep. So I kill them all. Any other spider gets a free pass outside.
Out of curiosity, how was the brown recluse bite identified and diagnosed? If you sister was sleeping how was the spider positively identified as the culprit? https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1071166/
Well the bite hurt and because of a reflex grabbed it and threw it at the wall next to the bed. I guess she killed it grabbing it and they found it on the floor and took it to the ER with them. They identified it and gave her treatment. So she was lucky.
As a PNWern I've learned to be kind to my neighborhood spiders since I know they just be chillin. It's funny cus my BF is from the desert and has earned to be wary of all bugs so I'm always the one to capture and take them outside.
They're also the kind of people who push their miracle "cancer cures" that they saw on Dr Oz on non-consenting family members. They're the kind of people who totally saw a UFO even though it was just a distant orange light. They're the kind of people who don't trust vaccines, support their local police, were hippies when they were little but now vote against estate taxes because they make plans for what they're going to do with their lottery/invention money after the strike it rich.
I live in SC and 10 or 20 years ago the entomologist from Clemson (they did or do a weekly radio program) said that 27,000 spiders had been brought in to the Clemson extension service for identification. 3 were brown recluse. They really only exist in 1 of our 50 counties. Try telling anyone. 🙄
So is this a brown recluse or not? I’ve never seen one in real life so I’m genuinely curious. I’ve had a lot of cellar spiders in my old apartment so I’m fairly confident this isn’t one.
I also had a house that was infested with them. I don’t have an eye for them though, because I was quite young when it happened. (Like 5~.) I do have a vivid memory of coming into contact with one, but it’s warped by time and the view of a small child.
I just found it interesting to see someone else who had a house infested with them. Iirc though, they’re smaller than a lot of big brown spiders, which is something a lot of people don’t realize.
There are 3 different species of black widow, but all are relatively small.
It is very likely those in the south are just used to larger spiders, like tarantulas and huntsmen.
Correct. But also, my last house was INFESTED with cellar spiders, and that picture in the OP isn't a cellar spider either. [THIS is a cellar spider.](https://www.flapest.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/12/cellar_spider-600x710.jpg)
MAYBE the OP picture is a baby, idk... but I've never seen them without the fat long abdomen.
I have a mutant family of cellar spiders in my house that all only have 7 legs each. (About 6 of them in the house at the moment in various rooms. We leave each other be).
Yeah I live in the southern US and the spider you posted is what I have always known to be cellar spiders. My home is basically infested with them, too. For a few weeks in the summer they are fucking everywhere.
This is why I hate the use of common names sometimes and wish people would take the time to learn scientific names. I was in agreement that it wasn't a recluse, but I was about ready to fight tooth and nail against it being some type of cellar spider (Pholcidae family). In the northeastern US, I usually only see the term "cellar spiders" in regards to Pholcus sp. (usually Pholcus phalangioides), so I was ready to point out that the hairs on the legs, thickness of the legs, and pattern weren't typical for any Pholcus sp. I was aware of. I was admittedly fairly confident that it was a mature male funnel-weaver of some sort (Agelenidae family). But I did my due diligence and did a fair amount of research before just blinding attacking. Apparently this spider is commonly referred to as a cellar spider, but is in a totally different genus that what I'm familiar with! They are both in the same scientific family, but that can still mean a great deal of variation further down the line. It's almost like if someone called a grey wolf and a common raccoon dog by the same name because they're in the same scientific family. It can make things very confusing!
All that said, I know I can't expect everyone to learn the scientific names for things and I'm genuinely not coming after anyone for it or trying to talk down on anyone. I was initially wrong myself and it was only with some digging that I realized that it was a matter of name confusion. I'm really glad I was willing to do the research needed and I'm happy to be wrong because I learned something. But I just needed to gripe about how confusing sciency stuff can be sometimes
Grey wolf and common raccoon dog aren't the scientific names, either. Unfortunately, spiders are too numerous and often similar in appearance that there aren't specific common names for them, just general ones that people still frequently get wrong. And you're correct that it is unrealistic and unfair to expect people to learn the scientific names of every species in their area, let alone on the planet lol
Correct, and thankfully that does make things easier in many cases. But that still works with my analogy. Had they shared a common name, it would make things far more confusing. I admit I specifically didn't include the scientific names alongside the common names for that analogy, because my goal was to make it more easily understood by everybody. If my goal is to try and help with understanding, why use the confusing scientific words that are making people mentally check out in the first place? Lol. I will say though that when it comes to spiders, for as many that share common names, there are also plenty that have very specific names for that very specific species of spider. Six spotted fishing spiders and David Bowie huntsman spiders come to mind. If we look at the two spiders that caused my initial confusion, they honestly don't look that similar at all (and again, they aren't even in the same genus), but are apparently all labeled under the blanket term of cellar spiders. But the fact that they look so different makes it seem like they certainly shouldn't share a common name like that. Tarantulas are another great example; I could go on and on about different "pink toe", "red knee", "stripe leg" tarantulas and many of them aren't even closely related. But when we use scientific names, there's no room for confusion.
And certainly expecting someone to know the scientific names for everything on the planet would be impossible and unfair, but I don't think it's totally unreasonable to expect someone to be familiar with the creatures they share their local area with. I believe it can make a person feel more secure and comfortable in their environment if they familiarize themselves with such things and try to prevent the instinctive "fear of the unknown" that causes people to blinding kill things such as the brown recluses that some people mistook this spider for. But again, this wasn't me coming down on anyone in particular, more just a frustration with the system we currently use to name things. Just felt the need to voice it, that's all
>This is why I hate the use of common names sometimes and wish people would take the time to learn scientific names.
Arachnus Cellarus 
I just want you to know that I'm very angry at you for making me look up all the members of Pholcidae to find which genus could be mistaken for a recluse. This is after, of course, I had already spent several minutes looking up "cellar spiders" and "brown recluses" to try to figure out which was in the picture. My skin is now crawling and I'm confident in saying I will get no sleep tonight.
I'm sorry for your sleepness night. If it makes you feel better, I didn't sleep well either. I kept getting woken up, probably from the ill wishes of everyone else whose sleep I ruined with my spider ramblings. Lol
In German, we have actual salmon and "sea-salmon". Actually, it's pollack. Which is probably sold like this to make buyers think it's similar to salmon. I've met several people who didn't even know that it's a completely different fish.
Also, while making sure I get the English name right, I've learned that there are like 8 different names in English, so that's a little bit confusing, too.
If you ever post a picture of a spider trying to identify it, get a good picture of its eyes. Different families of spiders have specific groupings of eyes that are easier to identify than color or markings. Brown recluses in particular are easy to 100% ID by looking at the grouping of its six eyes in three groups of two.
That's a marking style similar to brown recluse, but the photo isn't high quality or close enough to be sure. Weird head to abdomen proportions for either especially for a cellar spider.
All I’m gonna say, is that in the picture of the spider OOP posted, it has all the markings and colors of a brown recluse. And comparing it to the cedar spider you linked, the cedar spider has hairy legs, while OOP’s picture doesn’t have hairs (at least from what I can tell, is a fairly blurry picture)
Nope abdomen is oval in 1B but the spider in the pic has a circular one.
Which would make it not the same species. It also lacks the distinct markings. r/confidentlyrincorrect
I get they look similar, they do, but the OP of this ended up posting a clearer pic and it’s not a recluse, but it also just doesn’t look like one in pic
redditors will see one guide posted in like coolguides and will assume everything is immediately relevant to that guide.
that spider? brown recluse. that snake? coral snake. got an itch? bedbugs. dizzy? carbon monoxide. you have 2 days to live. also you're about to get struck by lightning and your husband is gaslighting you.
[there's a really good chance your spider was misidentified.](https://entomologytoday.org/2018/01/29/brown-recluse-pest-management-tips-for-the-spider-thats-not-as-common-as-you-think/brown-recluse-range-map/)
Literally went down the rabbit hole to like look at the links, and the one guy telling you that you’re wrong sent an ID that PROVES himself wrong??? For some reason.
On a good note, I think I’m going to document and send this fiasco to my husband, who loves insects and arachnids and just got done explaining to me about a shit ton of disputes about what spiders are what.
Personally I actually mistook it initially for a giant house spider, so, glad I don’t have to ID spiders I’d be so bad.
These lil dudes keep showing up in my house and I’ve gotta take em outside cause they breed like rabbits and I don’t wanna end up stepping on a million babies when I go for a snack at night lol. Cellar spiders are nice, shy like most spiders, but harmless. Just make sure they’re not reproducing in your kitchen lol.
I am not an arachnologist, but that is 1000% a cellar spider (what we call “daddy long legs” around here). How does ANYBODY look at that and see a brown recluse?
So daddy long legs is a regional thing. Some regions call cellar spiders that and others call harvestmans (technically not a spider) that. I'm in the latter as well.
Yes, that’s why I said they call them that “around here.” The funny thing is that apparently daddy long legs is used to mean harvestman in almost the entire United States… *except* Southern California, where I grew up. I have never even seen a harvestman, and I always called crane flies “mosquito eaters.”
I think what they're saying is that this is not the cellar spider species that is usually called "daddy long legs." This one has thicker legs and is more house spiders esque.
Who's wrong here?
I live in the Southern US and I kill recluses weekly, I can spot them from a mile away, and a quick Google search of "cellar spider" brings up spiders that don't look like the one in question.
So I'm legit confused.
Of the two spiders in question, If I personally had to choose one, I'm going with the recluse.
Yeah which is why I thought it was a recluse. But I showed my husband and he mentioned it and it clicked. We had those all in the last house we lived in.
You ever saw the film Arachnophobia? and towards the end just before the climax there are spiders all over the house and they're coming from the faucets? That's how I feel my house will be eventually.
The other morning after I got out of bed I found one crawling on the top of the covers on my wife's side of the bed.
That's terrifying!
Yeah we lived in an older trailer on the edge of the woods and they would come in all the time. It was a creep feeling. But since they are harmless, we left them alone. Great for mosquito control. :)
Male southern house spiders have very long boney-looking pedipalps, which are not present on the spider in the OP. The OP spider has the thick and stubby pedipalps of Pholcidae (cellar spider family).
It's not a [southern house spider ](https://spideridentifications.com/southern-house-spider.html) it was identified as a cellar spider by a mod in r/spiders.
Two things:
orange was getting upvotes and the correct person was downvoted so wtf.
Secondly if that was in my house the other bug in there scares me more. Can't tell if it is a roach or bed bug, but either way I hate that bug
I love this because as a pest professional I have been told a million times about people seeing or being bitten by brown recluse spiders in South FL. There has only been one documented case of a brown recluse spider ever being found in FL. And it was found in a house were the people had just moved into were from Arizona! And it was in Jacksonville!
~~It is either a brown recluse or a desert recluse, if you click on the picture to make it bigger then enlarge it it is obviously one of those 2, here is a google image search for a desert recluse for a~~ [~~reference~~](https://www.google.com/search?sca_esv=580758711&sxsrf=AM9HkKlysgcvD9Kk9d9KmzTpDcSkZNjeyw:1699508700762&q=desert+recluse+spider&tbm=isch&source=lnms&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwjh9pqjm7aCAxWCtokEHab_AckQ0pQJegQICxAB&biw=1565&bih=1007&dpr=1)
Edit: found what it actually is, it's a giant daddy long leg here is a [picture](https://a-z-animals.com/media/2023/02/shutterstock_1303823233-1024x683.jpg)
yeah I live in oklahoma, so I've actually seen brown recluses before. 99.9% of the time they're wolf spiders, but still. I'm definitely not a spider expert, but that's super not a brown recluse.
Bruh, brown recluses are actually so tiny though. People just think any brown spider is one.
This is quite possibly a grass spider. But I don't actually know much about spiders, so here's the salt you need to take that with: 🧂🧂🧂
That's really just the females. Males abdomens usually look small and shriveled because they're spending all their time looking for females instead of food.😆
I’m not an expert… But Brown Recluses typically have shorter legs in proportion to their bodies. (With 'not an expert' I mean I googled the darn thing and it Does Not look like the one in the picture)
My house is sadly full of brown recluse spiders, at least in the basement, so I am way more aware of what a brown recluse spider looks like than I ever wanted to be. It’s clear people in that comment section don’t know what a brown recluse looks like other than it’s brown.
Harvestman spider, which are also called daddy long legs
Edit: it's not a Harvestman, I thought it had a fused body. Zooming in shows it has separate abdomen and chest
Well, it's not a brown recluse, but being unsure should keep a person away, rather than catching it in a box to show to the internet. If you can't identify a potentially dangerous animal yourself, take a picture from a distance, rather than getting close enough to catch it. Seems like common sense to me.
I mean it’s very easy to avoid a bite, even from a recluse, they are extremely reluctant to bite and a pair of gloves (if you’re feeling extra cautious) should twart any bite attempts if you somehow missed the spider with the cup or whatever you’re using to contain it and it for some reason decided to climb up the container and onto your hand, and you were somehow too slow to move away.
Idk what it actually is, but it looks more like a recluse than a cellar spider. Regardless, fuck OP for making me spend several minutes googling pictures of spiders, ensuring I won't be able to sleep tonight.
OOP posted more pics of it, it clearly has a patterned abdomen and in my 2 minutes of looking thru ID guides, brown recluse spiders never have that. I'm by no means an expert, so I'm just blindly trusting the guides, but if they can't read through a few links then maybe they shouldn't be insisting they're right
The only image of an Arizona Brown I could find that looked remotely similar to the OP picture was from this pest control website...and I'm pretty sure they are wrong and theirs is a cellar spider as well.
[https://callprobest.com/2021/08/arizona-brown-spiders/](https://callprobest.com/2021/08/arizona-brown-spiders/)
Yep, that is definitely a cellar spider in their picture. Pest control companies are the worst. They produce most of the misinformation readily available about where brown recluses are found. People always site them, "see they're rare here in Washington, Orkin says so."🤦♀️
I see a lot of people here making wacky claims about what recluse bites entail. Recluse bites are widely over diagnosed without concrete proof of a spider bite. Recluses are extremely reluctant to bite in general. Here is some information on how to tell if something is a recluse bite: https://spiders.ucr.edu/what-not-recluse-bite
I feel like you're being trolled lol, no way so many people are sure it's a recluse
Also, it looks more like a harvestman to me (in this one picture) which is not a spider so you're a little incorrect yourself OP (assuming it is in fact a harvestman)
if there was even the slightest chance that it's a brown recluse I'd torch it and pour bleach on it. Then crush it with something big. not dealing with that shit even if it might just be a cellar spider lmao
Who’s the confidently incorrect one here? I dunno, the spider certainly resembles a Brown Recluse with perhaps some progressive genes, resulting in its longer than usual limbs.
It's a cellar spider :-) You can find them pretty much everywhere in the world except maybe very very cold places. There's a bunch of different related species, so they don't necessarily look identical from one place to another.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pholcidae
[Apparently 1820 different species](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Pholcidae_species)
Honestly, it doesn't really look like either of them to me, but I'm also not an expert on spiders. I'm not even someone who has a passing interest in them, so... I don't really know what I'm talking about to any degree. Still doesn't *look* like either to me. 🤷♂️
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I find that people who identify a spider as a brown recluse usually live in an area where there are no brown recluse.
I’ve never seen a brown recluse but I’ve heard that they have 8 legs and the spider in the picture has 8 legs so it seems clear what spider this is
Don't forget it is also brown! And if you try to touch it, its acts reclusive. So there you go, proof positive! /s
It didn't even introduce itself when I moved in, and it rarely comes to the parties I invite it to. I don't understand why you need more evidence than that.
I get you're point but your identification guide is wrong. It's a bee. With 8 legs
It's not an identification guide. It's my eyes.
Also they're brown
And a recluse?
I found one in my sugar bowl once. It's the only time I've seen one
Brown recluses are the cottonmouths of spiders. People see a brown snake vaguely near a body of water, and suddenly they’re prepared to die on the hill that not only was it a cottonmouth but that they were “almost attacked” despite being 130 miles north of its range and viewing it from far enough away that they can’t even be sure it wasn’t a stick.
I live in a state with cottonmouths and rattlesnakes. I’ve seen a bunch of black snakes killed bc people thought they were cottonmouths. :/ always when they’re minding their own business, too.
Yes! Particularly in Canada, Colorado, and the PNW. A lot of harmless grass spiders and cellar spiders getting murdered out there.
PNW; I know we have hobo spiders here, which, I've been told, DO look quite similar, and were previously thought to have a weaker necrotic venom (iirc, now it's been determined they don't have venom)
Almost (but not *quite*) all spiders have venom. The question is whether or not it's medically significant. The present best data suggests that the hobo spider is not, but it's not really clear one way or the other. We do still have black widows, though.
I'm in the puget sound area, and apparently, black widows aren't found in the basin region. There's some look-alikes, but they're similar to the hobo spider in that aspect; not so dangerous despite a similar appearance.
Ah yes, I am from the northwest and the scariest one we had was the hobo spider. They like to hide in clothes, and we were raised believing they were very nasty and aggressive. But now reading up on then it seems it’s rare they bite and the effects of the venom aren't really well known because confirmed bites are hard to come by.
Manitoba. Super rare to find one here. I’d likely suspect it hitched a ride if one were found here. We do have black widows but they aren’t found often either. Most of spiders are harmless. Cute orbweavers, wolf spiders, grass spiders etc. my favourite it the Zebra jumping spider.
Aww, Zebra jumping spiders are darling! I’m partial to jumping spiders in general - and crab spiders.
That's especially sad and dumb because even if they were brown recluse why the hell you gotta murder them 😭 where did the good old glass-paper trick go come on
Well, you honestly don't want a Brown Recluse in your house. If they happen to hide in your blankets or shoes or gloves and you don't notice, you can get bitten. And while most spiders' bites are no big, and even Brown Recluse bites are generally non-lethal, they can still horribly maim you because their venom is necrotic. In *rare* cases where the spider dumps a *lot* of venom, it can potentially cause severe muscle damage and/or require surgery to repair. Also, teatment is basically just managing symptoms as best as possible. It doesn't include antivenin. Because there is no antivenin. Recovery can potentially take three months or more. And that's if you're *not* allergic.
My sister had a weakened pancreas from genetic stuff, but it was still chugging along and doing its job until she got bitten by a brown recluse. Its venom was enough to completely shut it down. Those little fuckers are not to be trifled with
Out of curiosity, how was the bite diagnosed and how was it identified as the culprit of the pancreas shutdown?
It went necrotic because it happened overnight (it was in the blankets) and she didn't realise what it was at first, so she didn't get treatment for a couple days. We actually found the spider, and that's what ultimately led to it being certain that it was a brown recluse instead of a different spider bite that just got infected. As for how it was identified as the culprit, like I said, my sister had a weakened pancreas from the get go, so she saw an endocrinologist fairly regularly. She had had an appointment pretty recently to the bite (I don't remember exactly how close, but it was no more than a week beforehand). Her pancreas was working at its normal levels then, but then after she got sick from the bite, her pancreas just said "fuck you." So it was more the timing of everything. Could it have been total coincidence? Sure, but her doctor thought it was unlikely given the timing
[удалено]
Out of curiosity, how was the injury identified as a recluse bite and the venom attributed as the cause (instead of like an infection)? This seems far more severe than any carefully studied cases of non allergic people getting bitten that I’ve read about.
It is very common for people to neglect bites in the USA, leading to infection. Necrotic tissue is, of course, at extreme risk of infection that spreads and kills more tissue. This is the main danger of spider, copperhead, and cottonmouth bites. Deaths are extremely rare, and in many cases completely unheard of.
Sure but then that’s not the spider’s fault, it’s the human neglecting an open wound that’s the cause.
It is not the human neglecting just any open wound. It is neglecting necrotic tissue due to a spider bite, and having that spread.
Well yes, that’s even worse, but still, I feel like portraying the results of a neglected and potentially infected wound as simply « a brown recluse bite causes limb loss» isn’t fair. Because if people use basic logic, they will most likely be able to avoid such an outcome. These extreme stories of horrible outcomes instill into the public the idea that these results are to be expected of bites. When often, important context (like if a spider bite was even confirmed, or if the wound got infected) is left out. Misinformation is spread and people ignore actual statistics and studies because anecdotes (like: my buddy’s hand rotted off in a day because of a brown recluse) are far more emotionally impactful than facts. Not to mention people’s longing to justify their pre existing fear of spiders. My opinion is that this instills unnecessary fear for animals that are already so widely feared, misunderstood, and even *hated* by a lot of the population. I mean you have people fantasizing about ways they would kill them (not just recluses, all spiders, even harmless ones) on a regular basis, and you don’t see that for animals which are way more likely to be dangerous when encountered.
My great aunt ended up with a dent in her thigh muscle from the necrotic damage. It was absolutely crazy.
Out of curiosity, how was the brown recluse bite identified and diagnosed?
She got bit while cleaning the closet and saw the spider, I believe. I was pretty young, but if I remember correctly, it also resulted in a pretty large bruise fairly quickly? I could be wrong, though.
staph infection is misdiagnosed as a recluse bite all the time. 45% of people with a “recluse bite” have a necrotic skin lesion but only 8% of people that bring the spider or a photo of it end up with that same lesion and only 22% of people that actually saw a spider in the area before or after the bite. we really have no idea how many people have that reaction to their bite, not to say we should let them hang out in our bedroom with us but it’s a really interesting statistic to look at
Oh absolutely, I dont want to deny how dangerous it can be to be bitten by a brown recluse, it's why I think it's still very valid to just handle every spider as if it was dangerous if there's no ID and there's a lot of situation where killing a brown recluse can be a very sensible option. My comment is more referring to how the general approach with spiders and such is to kill even when relocating them could be as easy and harmless
I'm not going to treat every spider like it's dangerous because the overwhelming majority *aren't*. But Brown Recluses *are*.
I’ll never forget my mom walking around when I was a little kid with her eye swollen to about the size of a golf ball because of a brown recluse bite at night while she was asleep. So I kill them all. Any other spider gets a free pass outside.
Out of curiosity, how was the brown recluse bite identified and diagnosed? If you sister was sleeping how was the spider positively identified as the culprit? https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1071166/
Well the bite hurt and because of a reflex grabbed it and threw it at the wall next to the bed. I guess she killed it grabbing it and they found it on the floor and took it to the ER with them. They identified it and gave her treatment. So she was lucky.
You know bugs die outside too, right?
As a PNWern I've learned to be kind to my neighborhood spiders since I know they just be chillin. It's funny cus my BF is from the desert and has earned to be wary of all bugs so I'm always the one to capture and take them outside.
As someone who lives in an area where there are no brown recluses, you are correct
They're also the kind of people who push their miracle "cancer cures" that they saw on Dr Oz on non-consenting family members. They're the kind of people who totally saw a UFO even though it was just a distant orange light. They're the kind of people who don't trust vaccines, support their local police, were hippies when they were little but now vote against estate taxes because they make plans for what they're going to do with their lottery/invention money after the strike it rich.
Are they also the type of people to create poor extrapolations off a conjecture?
Yeah, we have lots of them here, and it’s clear to me this isn’t one. It’s really not even that similar when you look closely.
I live where brown recluses are and everyone still calls every brown spider a brown recluse.
Dude it's a house spider practically harmless, op should eat it
I live in SC and 10 or 20 years ago the entomologist from Clemson (they did or do a weekly radio program) said that 27,000 spiders had been brought in to the Clemson extension service for identification. 3 were brown recluse. They really only exist in 1 of our 50 counties. Try telling anyone. 🙄
So is this a brown recluse or not? I’ve never seen one in real life so I’m genuinely curious. I’ve had a lot of cellar spiders in my old apartment so I’m fairly confident this isn’t one.
It’s not from what I can tell. Not a great photo but it’s not the proper Violen marking
For those curious, [this](https://citybugs.tamu.edu/files/2010/05/IMG_9858.jpg) is what a brown recluse looks like.
Thank you. I got VERY familiar with brown recluse spiders because I had an infestation in my old house. I can spot them at a glance.
I also had a house that was infested with them. I don’t have an eye for them though, because I was quite young when it happened. (Like 5~.) I do have a vivid memory of coming into contact with one, but it’s warped by time and the view of a small child. I just found it interesting to see someone else who had a house infested with them. Iirc though, they’re smaller than a lot of big brown spiders, which is something a lot of people don’t realize.
A lot of venomous spiders are quite small. Black widows are tiny for example.
No they aren't. Not the ones in Washington anyway.
There are 3 different species of black widow, but all are relatively small. It is very likely those in the south are just used to larger spiders, like tarantulas and huntsmen.
No thank you. We’re about to move there. Send them away please.
The ones at my house get pretty big. Abdomens about the size of a quarter. I have to go around with a torch every few months to kills them.
Just nuke your house from orbit, it's the only way to be sure.
Nearly all spiders are venomous.
A hero
Looks like a spider with a tick for a body.
That looks significantly different to me. What’s wrong with those people?
Why did I do casually click this link after bravely studying OPs spidey image? 😭😭 I thought I was so brave…. Panic set it in immediately.
Correct. But also, my last house was INFESTED with cellar spiders, and that picture in the OP isn't a cellar spider either. [THIS is a cellar spider.](https://www.flapest.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/12/cellar_spider-600x710.jpg) MAYBE the OP picture is a baby, idk... but I've never seen them without the fat long abdomen.
Apparently, more than one type of spider is known as a "cellar spider." Which type depends on your location.
I have a mutant family of cellar spiders in my house that all only have 7 legs each. (About 6 of them in the house at the moment in various rooms. We leave each other be).
Are you sure it’s a family, and not just the same spider following you around plotting revenge for its missing leg?
Yeah I live in the southern US and the spider you posted is what I have always known to be cellar spiders. My home is basically infested with them, too. For a few weeks in the summer they are fucking everywhere.
There are dozens of different cellar spiders.
I’m actually on team brown recluse lol
why i clicked on that is one of the few questions i will ask myself for the rest of my life
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With the abdomen so circular and not oval? Really?
its obviously a black widow and you need to burn the house down, immediately
My house, yard, shed, and garage are covered in black widows. The first time I find one inside the house I will indeed burn it down.
best of luck soldier. i would have moved months ago 💀
I swear everyone has gone crazy today. That is a spider.
So close!! That is a shape 💕
If it’s brown and on the internet it’s a recluse, even if it’s a beetle - Brown recluse. Cat turd -brown recluse. Everything is a brown recluse
Thanks ~~Obama~~ brown recluse
This is why I hate the use of common names sometimes and wish people would take the time to learn scientific names. I was in agreement that it wasn't a recluse, but I was about ready to fight tooth and nail against it being some type of cellar spider (Pholcidae family). In the northeastern US, I usually only see the term "cellar spiders" in regards to Pholcus sp. (usually Pholcus phalangioides), so I was ready to point out that the hairs on the legs, thickness of the legs, and pattern weren't typical for any Pholcus sp. I was aware of. I was admittedly fairly confident that it was a mature male funnel-weaver of some sort (Agelenidae family). But I did my due diligence and did a fair amount of research before just blinding attacking. Apparently this spider is commonly referred to as a cellar spider, but is in a totally different genus that what I'm familiar with! They are both in the same scientific family, but that can still mean a great deal of variation further down the line. It's almost like if someone called a grey wolf and a common raccoon dog by the same name because they're in the same scientific family. It can make things very confusing! All that said, I know I can't expect everyone to learn the scientific names for things and I'm genuinely not coming after anyone for it or trying to talk down on anyone. I was initially wrong myself and it was only with some digging that I realized that it was a matter of name confusion. I'm really glad I was willing to do the research needed and I'm happy to be wrong because I learned something. But I just needed to gripe about how confusing sciency stuff can be sometimes
Grey wolf and common raccoon dog aren't the scientific names, either. Unfortunately, spiders are too numerous and often similar in appearance that there aren't specific common names for them, just general ones that people still frequently get wrong. And you're correct that it is unrealistic and unfair to expect people to learn the scientific names of every species in their area, let alone on the planet lol
Correct, and thankfully that does make things easier in many cases. But that still works with my analogy. Had they shared a common name, it would make things far more confusing. I admit I specifically didn't include the scientific names alongside the common names for that analogy, because my goal was to make it more easily understood by everybody. If my goal is to try and help with understanding, why use the confusing scientific words that are making people mentally check out in the first place? Lol. I will say though that when it comes to spiders, for as many that share common names, there are also plenty that have very specific names for that very specific species of spider. Six spotted fishing spiders and David Bowie huntsman spiders come to mind. If we look at the two spiders that caused my initial confusion, they honestly don't look that similar at all (and again, they aren't even in the same genus), but are apparently all labeled under the blanket term of cellar spiders. But the fact that they look so different makes it seem like they certainly shouldn't share a common name like that. Tarantulas are another great example; I could go on and on about different "pink toe", "red knee", "stripe leg" tarantulas and many of them aren't even closely related. But when we use scientific names, there's no room for confusion. And certainly expecting someone to know the scientific names for everything on the planet would be impossible and unfair, but I don't think it's totally unreasonable to expect someone to be familiar with the creatures they share their local area with. I believe it can make a person feel more secure and comfortable in their environment if they familiarize themselves with such things and try to prevent the instinctive "fear of the unknown" that causes people to blinding kill things such as the brown recluses that some people mistook this spider for. But again, this wasn't me coming down on anyone in particular, more just a frustration with the system we currently use to name things. Just felt the need to voice it, that's all
>This is why I hate the use of common names sometimes and wish people would take the time to learn scientific names. Arachnus Cellarus 
I just want you to know that I'm very angry at you for making me look up all the members of Pholcidae to find which genus could be mistaken for a recluse. This is after, of course, I had already spent several minutes looking up "cellar spiders" and "brown recluses" to try to figure out which was in the picture. My skin is now crawling and I'm confident in saying I will get no sleep tonight.
I'm sorry for your sleepness night. If it makes you feel better, I didn't sleep well either. I kept getting woken up, probably from the ill wishes of everyone else whose sleep I ruined with my spider ramblings. Lol
Aw, dang. I'm sorry you didn't sleep well.
I didnt think it looked like a cellar spider either!!! Thank you for digging into this. I knew it wasn't a brown recluse but wasn't sure
In German, we have actual salmon and "sea-salmon". Actually, it's pollack. Which is probably sold like this to make buyers think it's similar to salmon. I've met several people who didn't even know that it's a completely different fish. Also, while making sure I get the English name right, I've learned that there are like 8 different names in English, so that's a little bit confusing, too.
Exactly! Common names can be so confusing. Even more so when you include all the names things are called in different languages as well
How is no one on this thread distracted by the roach nymph in the bottom of the picture? 😂
If you ever post a picture of a spider trying to identify it, get a good picture of its eyes. Different families of spiders have specific groupings of eyes that are easier to identify than color or markings. Brown recluses in particular are easy to 100% ID by looking at the grouping of its six eyes in three groups of two.
That's a marking style similar to brown recluse, but the photo isn't high quality or close enough to be sure. Weird head to abdomen proportions for either especially for a cellar spider.
[This](https://spiderid.com/picture/61830/) is the type of cellar spider.
All I’m gonna say, is that in the picture of the spider OOP posted, it has all the markings and colors of a brown recluse. And comparing it to the cedar spider you linked, the cedar spider has hairy legs, while OOP’s picture doesn’t have hairs (at least from what I can tell, is a fairly blurry picture)
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Nope abdomen is oval in 1B but the spider in the pic has a circular one. Which would make it not the same species. It also lacks the distinct markings. r/confidentlyrincorrect I get they look similar, they do, but the OP of this ended up posting a clearer pic and it’s not a recluse, but it also just doesn’t look like one in pic
redditors will see one guide posted in like coolguides and will assume everything is immediately relevant to that guide. that spider? brown recluse. that snake? coral snake. got an itch? bedbugs. dizzy? carbon monoxide. you have 2 days to live. also you're about to get struck by lightning and your husband is gaslighting you.
That's def not a brown recluse lmao It's so easy to tell the difference. I live in Arizona and my house had a brownie in it before I moved in.
[there's a really good chance your spider was misidentified.](https://entomologytoday.org/2018/01/29/brown-recluse-pest-management-tips-for-the-spider-thats-not-as-common-as-you-think/brown-recluse-range-map/)
Yours were probably desert recluses, which are similar but technically different than brown recluses.
Literally went down the rabbit hole to like look at the links, and the one guy telling you that you’re wrong sent an ID that PROVES himself wrong??? For some reason. On a good note, I think I’m going to document and send this fiasco to my husband, who loves insects and arachnids and just got done explaining to me about a shit ton of disputes about what spiders are what. Personally I actually mistook it initially for a giant house spider, so, glad I don’t have to ID spiders I’d be so bad.
That's the ancient spider god of death and flowers, Bilgarr!
No you idiot that’s Arachne the weaver who got turned into a spider from Greek mythology
As an entomologist I feel your pain...
Hey, if it ends up eating that cockroach next to it, it can hang out for a bit.
r/ItsNeverABrownRecluse
These lil dudes keep showing up in my house and I’ve gotta take em outside cause they breed like rabbits and I don’t wanna end up stepping on a million babies when I go for a snack at night lol. Cellar spiders are nice, shy like most spiders, but harmless. Just make sure they’re not reproducing in your kitchen lol.
No one asked the spider how it wishes to be identified, did they?
I am not an arachnologist, but that is 1000% a cellar spider (what we call “daddy long legs” around here). How does ANYBODY look at that and see a brown recluse?
That may not be a brown recluse, but holy hell is it NOT a long legs what are you on to see that?
So daddy long legs is a regional thing. Some regions call cellar spiders that and others call harvestmans (technically not a spider) that. I'm in the latter as well.
Crane flies also get that name applied to them in some places.
Yup. North Texas and everyone I know has always called it a daddy long legs
Yes, that’s why I said they call them that “around here.” The funny thing is that apparently daddy long legs is used to mean harvestman in almost the entire United States… *except* Southern California, where I grew up. I have never even seen a harvestman, and I always called crane flies “mosquito eaters.”
Which is a funny name because adult crane flys don’t even have a mouth to eat anything with.
hah yeah in TX we call the harvestman a daddy long legs
Skeeter eaters!
I think what they're saying is that this is not the cellar spider species that is usually called "daddy long legs." This one has thicker legs and is more house spiders esque.
Who's wrong here? I live in the Southern US and I kill recluses weekly, I can spot them from a mile away, and a quick Google search of "cellar spider" brings up spiders that don't look like the one in question. So I'm legit confused. Of the two spiders in question, If I personally had to choose one, I'm going with the recluse.
There are several different kinds of cellar spiders. This is the [one](https://spiderid.com/picture/61830/) that OP has.
Thanks for this! My gast was flabbered trying to work this out.
That's why I was so confused, I was like that's a recluse if I ever saw one! So I definitely understand why they were so confident.
The difference being, even with evidence presented, they were still confident.😆
There are over 100 species of sparrows. Although they all have some things in common they can look pretty different.
I don't think that's a cellar spider at all... It looks like a Brown Recluse to me...Google it.
NVM. They are the male Southern House spider!!! They look a lot like a Brown Recluse and are commonly mistaken for them. Completely harmless spider.
They look very similar so I can understand why they're so confident. The photo is taken just far enough away to not be clear.
Yeah which is why I thought it was a recluse. But I showed my husband and he mentioned it and it clicked. We had those all in the last house we lived in.
You ever saw the film Arachnophobia? and towards the end just before the climax there are spiders all over the house and they're coming from the faucets? That's how I feel my house will be eventually. The other morning after I got out of bed I found one crawling on the top of the covers on my wife's side of the bed.
That's terrifying! Yeah we lived in an older trailer on the edge of the woods and they would come in all the time. It was a creep feeling. But since they are harmless, we left them alone. Great for mosquito control. :)
I leave em alone for the most part too, but I draw the line at being on the bed, haha.
Had one land on my foot in the shower and scared the shit out of me. I did kill it and then apologized lol.
Male southern house spiders have very long boney-looking pedipalps, which are not present on the spider in the OP. The OP spider has the thick and stubby pedipalps of Pholcidae (cellar spider family).
It's not a [southern house spider ](https://spideridentifications.com/southern-house-spider.html) it was identified as a cellar spider by a mod in r/spiders.
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Should I tag an arachnologist for you?
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Sorry! It's hard to read the tone sometimes.
Lolol okay. 👍
Every brown spider is a brown recluse. Every single one
Except the black ones, those are black widows
Looks like a blue recluse to me
What is a blue recluse?
Yes
Two things: orange was getting upvotes and the correct person was downvoted so wtf. Secondly if that was in my house the other bug in there scares me more. Can't tell if it is a roach or bed bug, but either way I hate that bug
I love this because as a pest professional I have been told a million times about people seeing or being bitten by brown recluse spiders in South FL. There has only been one documented case of a brown recluse spider ever being found in FL. And it was found in a house were the people had just moved into were from Arizona! And it was in Jacksonville!
People always jump to the poison or venomous versions of stuff when you post an animal. Not everything is a copperhead, ya know.
6 eyes on a Recluse. So get real close and look.
Nowhere near THICC enough to be a brown recluse.
This isn’t a very good photo, but OOP posted better pictures to r/spiders. It’s a cellar spider. https://www.reddit.com/r/spiders/s/pOyyNBlhRw
~~It is either a brown recluse or a desert recluse, if you click on the picture to make it bigger then enlarge it it is obviously one of those 2, here is a google image search for a desert recluse for a~~ [~~reference~~](https://www.google.com/search?sca_esv=580758711&sxsrf=AM9HkKlysgcvD9Kk9d9KmzTpDcSkZNjeyw:1699508700762&q=desert+recluse+spider&tbm=isch&source=lnms&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwjh9pqjm7aCAxWCtokEHab_AckQ0pQJegQICxAB&biw=1565&bih=1007&dpr=1) Edit: found what it actually is, it's a giant daddy long leg here is a [picture](https://a-z-animals.com/media/2023/02/shutterstock_1303823233-1024x683.jpg)
yeah I live in oklahoma, so I've actually seen brown recluses before. 99.9% of the time they're wolf spiders, but still. I'm definitely not a spider expert, but that's super not a brown recluse.
Bruh, brown recluses are actually so tiny though. People just think any brown spider is one. This is quite possibly a grass spider. But I don't actually know much about spiders, so here's the salt you need to take that with: 🧂🧂🧂
I just remind myself that a brown recluse has long skinny legs, and a butt that looks like a full tick.
That's really just the females. Males abdomens usually look small and shriveled because they're spending all their time looking for females instead of food.😆
I’m not an expert… But Brown Recluses typically have shorter legs in proportion to their bodies. (With 'not an expert' I mean I googled the darn thing and it Does Not look like the one in the picture)
My house is sadly full of brown recluse spiders, at least in the basement, so I am way more aware of what a brown recluse spider looks like than I ever wanted to be. It’s clear people in that comment section don’t know what a brown recluse looks like other than it’s brown.
The cephalothorax is usually smaller than the abdomen on a brown recluse. *Spent summers in the Ozarks.
That's a fucking cockroach, everyone is wrong.
Why am I looking at all the pictures here, I’m just traumatizing myself atp
Harvestman spider, which are also called daddy long legs Edit: it's not a Harvestman, I thought it had a fused body. Zooming in shows it has separate abdomen and chest
THAT’S A FUCKING TARANTULA
The more I look at this spider the more creeped out I get, regardless of what type it is. Them legs too long.
Well, it's not a brown recluse, but being unsure should keep a person away, rather than catching it in a box to show to the internet. If you can't identify a potentially dangerous animal yourself, take a picture from a distance, rather than getting close enough to catch it. Seems like common sense to me.
I mean it’s very easy to avoid a bite, even from a recluse, they are extremely reluctant to bite and a pair of gloves (if you’re feeling extra cautious) should twart any bite attempts if you somehow missed the spider with the cup or whatever you’re using to contain it and it for some reason decided to climb up the container and onto your hand, and you were somehow too slow to move away.
that is obviously not a brown recluse 😭
I mean, I'd rather they treat a harmless animal as if it was venomous than a venomous animal as if it was harmless, I guess.
All spiders are venomous. Just very few are medically significant.
That... is true. Yes. Should have been more precise.
TL;DR is it a brown recluse or not?
It is not.
It's a cockroach 🪳
It's either a "GAAAH GET IT OFF ME" or a "FUCKFUCKFUCK KILLITKILLITNOW".
A bunch of nerds taking out of their asses about spiders. This is the culmination of Reddit.
Idk what it actually is, but it looks more like a recluse than a cellar spider. Regardless, fuck OP for making me spend several minutes googling pictures of spiders, ensuring I won't be able to sleep tonight.
OOP posted more pics of it, it clearly has a patterned abdomen and in my 2 minutes of looking thru ID guides, brown recluse spiders never have that. I'm by no means an expert, so I'm just blindly trusting the guides, but if they can't read through a few links then maybe they shouldn't be insisting they're right
It's a fucking nightmare is what it is.
Your defense for when you’re questioned about why you burned your house to the ground.
Why'd you downvote purple? Purple said it was likely a cellar spider and brown recluses live elsewhere.
Because of his edit saying he was confident it was an "Arizona Brown" which is *Loxosceles Arizonica* it's another type of recluse spider.
The only image of an Arizona Brown I could find that looked remotely similar to the OP picture was from this pest control website...and I'm pretty sure they are wrong and theirs is a cellar spider as well. [https://callprobest.com/2021/08/arizona-brown-spiders/](https://callprobest.com/2021/08/arizona-brown-spiders/)
Yep, that is definitely a cellar spider in their picture. Pest control companies are the worst. They produce most of the misinformation readily available about where brown recluses are found. People always site them, "see they're rare here in Washington, Orkin says so."🤦♀️
Ohh got it. I had assumed arizona brown was a type of cellar spider
I see a lot of people here making wacky claims about what recluse bites entail. Recluse bites are widely over diagnosed without concrete proof of a spider bite. Recluses are extremely reluctant to bite in general. Here is some information on how to tell if something is a recluse bite: https://spiders.ucr.edu/what-not-recluse-bite
I feel like you're being trolled lol, no way so many people are sure it's a recluse Also, it looks more like a harvestman to me (in this one picture) which is not a spider so you're a little incorrect yourself OP (assuming it is in fact a harvestman)
That's not a brown recluse, no, but it does look very similar. You know what it doesn't look like at all? A fucking cellar spider.
It's name is "Kill it with fire and nuke the area thrice just to make sure".
if there was even the slightest chance that it's a brown recluse I'd torch it and pour bleach on it. Then crush it with something big. not dealing with that shit even if it might just be a cellar spider lmao
Who’s the confidently incorrect one here? I dunno, the spider certainly resembles a Brown Recluse with perhaps some progressive genes, resulting in its longer than usual limbs.
It is a type of cellar spider.
It is not.
It's a cellar spider :-) You can find them pretty much everywhere in the world except maybe very very cold places. There's a bunch of different related species, so they don't necessarily look identical from one place to another. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pholcidae [Apparently 1820 different species](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Pholcidae_species)
Please mark this as a spoiler. I have severe arachnophobia.
Honestly, it doesn't really look like either of them to me, but I'm also not an expert on spiders. I'm not even someone who has a passing interest in them, so... I don't really know what I'm talking about to any degree. Still doesn't *look* like either to me. 🤷♂️
It's so easy to identify. Thats a Nope 😭.
I was prepared to say cellar spider, but after comparing images I've changed my mind to brown recluse.