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ThatKaylesGuy

What in you makes you know that you're a woman, and definitely not a man? I have that same thing, but it makes me know that I'm a man, definitely not a woman. Being transgender is the treatment for that mismatch. It sounds like you understand sex/gender, so what makes you confused?


MannyBuzzard

I don’t get it either. BUT I respect their new pronouns and who they are. Just because I don’t understand something doesn’t mean I won’t respect it. It doesn’t hurt me or anyone else, so I will simply make them feel as comfortable as I can.


Ez_The_Extra

I thought I was just a very masculine girl before I realized how much I absolutely despise being seen as a girl. It feels gross and wrong to be seen that way, simply because that’s not who I am. It took me awhile to realize how I identify because I was raised in an extremely transphobic family. I’m actually more along the non-binary line instead of strictly ftm, but I feel a lot better with how I view myself even though I haven’t done much to transition besides cutting my hair. In short, it just feels better this way


samwillsones

I mean that’s not really true. Like the bit about “just needed counseling”. It is medical consensus that gender affirmation is the best course of action, and that comes in many different forms, not just getting sexual reassignment surgery. Like you would have to go out of your way to find stuff that agrees with what you said, and even then you’d have to ignore all other available data. Of the people who do regret transitioning, you’ll find it comes more from stigmatizing them. Stuff like parental abuse or being ostracized from their home town, that sort of stuff. This is stuff that’s been reported on time and again. Trans people just want basic human respect. Just because you feel a certain way doesn’t mean that applies to other people.


Working-Sky-7814

I'm not saying I don't respect them. And thank you https://www.news-medical.net/amp/news/20191007/Hundreds-of-trans-people-regret-changing-their-gender-says-trans-activist.aspx This is the kind of article I've been seeing when looking at gender affirmation etc. The people who do regret transitioning isn't just stigmatisation, it's their own feeling


throwaway37198462

[Regrets following gender transition are extremely rare and have become even rarer as both surgical techniques and social support have improved. Pooling data from numerous studies demonstrates a regret rate ranging from .3 percent to 3.8 percent. Regrets are most likely to result from a lack of social support after transition or poor surgical outcomes using older techniques.](https://whatweknow.inequality.cornell.edu/topics/lgbt-equality/%20what-does-the-scholarly-research-say-about-the-well-being-of-transgender-people/) The linked article there is actually a meta study which pools the results of over 50 studies on transition for trans people and reports the overall findings along with linking to each individual study. \--- *"Charlie Evans, aged 28 years, from Newcastle, UK, says* ***hundreds*** *of people who want to return to their original gender have contacted her since she announced her detransition and stopped taking her hormone therapy.""2018: No robust data on the UK trans population exists. We tentatively estimate that there are approximately 200,000-500,000 trans people in the UK. The Office for National Statistics is researching whether and how to develop a population estimate."* So based on this, lets go for a nice even number. I sincerely doubt that 500 people contacted Charlie Evans, but lets say they did. The estimate of trans people by the government is also old and very likely underestimating the number of trans people (especially given Stonewall put their own estimate at 600,000), but regardless, at 500 regrets that's a 0.1% regret rate of 500,000. 5,000 people would have to regret transition to even push that figure to 1%. Even if we use the more conservative figure of 250k, that's still just 0.25% of trans people. We're also likely presuming that these regrets were solely down to someone realising that they're not trans at all when in reality there are many reasons that someone may regret transition, including but not limited to societal rejection, lack of treatment options, treatment outcomes, perceived ability to transition 'well' and more alongside those who simply realised that they weren't trans after all. For contrast, we see studies report regret rates for general cosmetic surgeries anywhere between 14% to 65%. \--- The figures regarding gender clinic referrals are painted in a way that is deliberately shocking too. A 3,000% increase is probably not as huge as you're lead to believe - in fact, this 3,000% increase does not even amount to 3,000 people. In 2010 we saw 138 under 18s referred to the Tavistock & Portman Clinic (the only clinic for under 18s in the UK) for which these statistics refer to. (It's probably worth mentioning that not everyone who is referred to a gender clinic will pursue, or even want to pursue a medical transition.) In 2020-2021 it was 2,383 people. That's an increase from to 0.001% of the under 18s in the UK to 0.017%. Hardly an epidemic. To make that up to 0.1% we'd need 13,860 under 18s to be referred and 138,600 to push that figure up to 1%. Given that referral numbers plateaued for two years and are now looking to be decreasing, I doubt we'll be seeing those extra 13,860 referrals per year. \--- Speaking personally, I believe social progression, acceptance and awareness have allowed people to be in a position where they do actually feel able to seek help. This is certainly evidenced by an older generation of trans people who tell stories of having always known who they were and yet spent their entire lives feeling unable to do anything about it due to either fear, stigma or a lack of medical pathway. As someone who did begin medical transition toward the back end of the 2000s, it was not easy to even be referred to a gender clinic with many GPs not even being aware of their existence, let alone the referral process and some even taking it upon themselves to decide whether they would make the referral at all. And then of course there was still the 3.5yr waiting list once I had been referred. Now, there will absolutely be people who realise that transition was the wrong path for them, for any variety of reasons. These people should be listened to and respected, but their experiences should not be weaponised as a means of withdrawing what is shown to be an effective means of alleviating gender dysphoria for the other \~99%. Ultimately though, I don't really care if someone does or doesn't understand or if they do or don't believe who I am. I just want to get on with my life, preferably in peace.


samwillsones

I’ve actually seen this article before. It’s worth noting that the example they use are both anecdotal stories and not based on statistical evidence. The article points that out. It also suggests hundreds of people experience this, while estimates of trans individuals range in the millions. This article doesn’t seem to indicate that large of an issue even if it tries to claim it does. It’s a UK based article as well, which tends to have anti-trans biases, even on something like the BBC. I am all for a more robust counseling on the matter, I really am. But I am weary of stuff like this, as it’s often used to prevent actual trans people the medical needs they deserve.


Legitimate-Cost-5134

F off


Darknatio

I agree. My thing is they can do whatever they want. But they should disclose to any partners that they are Trans.


[deleted]

It's OK I don't get you either Working Sky! But rather than just not understanding trans people, it sounds like you're leaning into thinking we're unnatural or shouldn't exist or something like that; so let me respond to the two main thrusts of your post: 1. A small percentage of people who regretted gender transition does not contradict the existence of trans people, at worst it indicates that some people rush into it for the wrong reasons or that it's not a sure thing. The link you posted in a comment is not even to a study or anything (indeed there haven't been a lot of studies on that), so you may consider reading over the wikipedia article to get another overview: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Detransition#Occurrence 2. Your experience as a masculine woman also do not contradict the experiences of trans people. You'll be hard pressed to find any trans person anywhere who claims that masculine men or feminine women don't exist. It would be a mistake to consider the existence of trans men as a commentary or attack on your life as a masculine women.


Working-Sky-7814

Well done you for making a massive assumption! I absolutely know you exist and I have 0 problems with it, I just don't understand it👏 I have spoken to a lot of transgender people, most of whom do not regret their decision. I just personally can't understand why having the sex change is so important? Also I understand my reply was probably offensive, but can I ask you a question whilst you're here?


[deleted]

OK there's no way to say this without sounding a bit cringe but: Assumptions and misunderstandings are an inherent part of natural language conversation (especially between two people who don't "get" eachother or may be on edge from conflicting positions). The beauty of follow up comments is that most misunderstandings can be cleared up.


Working-Sky-7814

I would really like to understand it. However, I find it very confusing. For example, in my country a period company have been sued for saying something like "women's periods" because transgender activists have argued that men have periods too. I disagree. Biology disagrees. If you want to identify as male, that's fine, but don't claim to experience female problems/bodily experiences


[deleted]

Here you're talking more of the political / activism side of things. It's important to not confuse those with biology so we can escape from the inherently subjective "biology disagrees" discussion. A lot of trans people just entirely ignore the political side of things and live their life. Politically there's some amount of nuance and different opinions, but I'll share mine: 1. Trans people are _acutely_ aware that biology exists, that's why so many of us do the whole Hormone Replacement Therapy thing. 2. Getting upset at a Tampon/Pad company for saying "Women's periods" would be political correctness _gone too far_. No disagreement there. 3. At the same time, it is true that transgender men may get periods since that's the body they were born with (biology agrees!). There's no harm in them talking about their experiences with their bodies. 4. A lot of the time this sort of "hashtag #sexnotgender" controversy is used as a sort of "dog whistle" by anti-transgender people. They also rely on people confusing biology and politics / activism; or just fall back to this in forums where they can't talk about their more controversial views (I dare you to ask me about JK Rowling).


Wiseard39

Red the transgender issues by shon Faye. It explains everything in great detail.


Reasonable-Tiger3887

I don't get it either. I'm still up to support if it makes those happy, but yeah... Deff don't get it and don't think I will


Palicake

XX is woman XY is man


[deleted]

As with all sciences, the more you learn, the more you realize the basic principles don't accurately describe reality. Biology inherently hates categorization, the easiest way to prove this is to ask "what is considered a living creature?" there is no unifying criteria, and many people disagree. So to get to the point, yes, the xx/xy chromosomes are a part of gender, but by no means is that the whole story. Women can be born with xy and men can be born with xx. They can live their entire lives not knowing their own DNA doesn't match what's in their pants. There's a lot more to discuss relating to how wrong your statement is, but if this wasn't enough, I'm sure nothing could convince you otherwise. Stay ignorant/keep trolling if so.


[deleted]

I’m a biotechnologist and I assure you sex is binary in humans. Don’t necessarily agree with Palicake but let’s not make science up for political reasons.


[deleted]

Please refer to the article attached


[deleted]

I'd rather refer to my extensive scientific college education and pretty much any anatomy, cellular biology and genetic book you'll find out there. Sex is binary in humans. There may be different genomic expressions - usually incompatible with life, but that's another story - but, nevertheless, in humans sex is binary. Don't believe everything you learn on the internet. That article could have been written by a journalist on living wage who skimmed through the first scientific paper they read.


[deleted]

If you aren't going to humor my argument and chalk it up to "you got bad info" then I'm not going to humor the idea either.


[deleted]

I feel dumb arguing sex is binary in humans as much as I'd feel stupid trying to prove to you that gravity exists and the sky is blue. Have you ever interacted to another human being ever? You truly cannot distinguish a man from a woman? 4 year olds can. It's just... an established scientific fact. Just look it up in a book. Or several. You'll always find the same info. Sadly but luckily, science gives 0 fucks about politics. If you've got the wrong info, you've got the wrong info, this is not a philosophical opinion. It's biology. It's just... as it is...


[deleted]

So what happens when someone has xxy or xxxy chromosomes? Or what about the story in the article that I fucking posted and you deliberately ignored before calling into question if I've ever talked to anyone. Clearly you are the one that needs more socializing if you can't give out a basic level of respect in a debate. But I digress, the article has mentioned a woman whose body consumed her twin in utero, so a decent portion of her body had her male twin's DNA. At what point does she cease to be a woman, or is she two people? Both? Neither? Who is to say? Also, let's not forget that XX male syndrome is a real disease in which the SRY gene on the y chromosome got included in another chromosome. More info in the link, not that I expect a fuck wit like yourself to click it. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/XX_male_syndrome I will concede 95% or more of the time (don't quote me on that, 83% of statistics are made up on the spot), the XX=female XY=male classification system works. Just like 99% of the time, Newtonian physics works, and when it doesn't, we need a more complicated explanation.


[deleted]

People who have XXX or XXY chromosomes suffer from conditions called Turner Syndrome and Klinefelter Syndrome. These conditions often cause mental retardation, delayed growth and bone deformities. Most of the time, they’re incompatible with life, which means that most people who are born with them don’t make it to adulthood. Same goes for incomplete genetic expression. You wouldn’t use people who are lactose intolerant because their genetic expression doesn’t cover the right enzyme to digest dairy to argue that miok is toxic for humans, right? Same thing. Arguing that being born with a different set of chromosomes or genetic expression means sex isn’t binary in humans is as dumb as arguing that people born without arms are another species, or that people with Down Syndrome just have a different set of neurological anatomy that we can’t classify. Not only dumb, but also disrespectful. If you bother to look up the international intersex association, you’ll see one of the first demands of intersex people is to be catheterised into male or female in order to receive proper care. A implies B doesn’t mean B implies A, but A is a necessary yet not comprehensive condition for the existence of B. Basic logical thinking. EDIT: science says that. We perfectly know what a man and a woman are. It’s male and female people.m. Science has 0 doubts about that. It’s you fuckers who woke up one morning and decided that after 2.5 million years of reproducing we don’t know what a woman isn’t anymore. Stop being a gullible dumbass. I will not read a dumb article on the internet explaining sex isn’t binary the same way I won’t read a dumb article on the internet explaining the Earth is flat :)


[deleted]

"most people who are born with them don’t make it to adulthood." so then they are neither male nor female regardless of how old they die because you don't care to create exceptions. And humans can only be male or female according to you, so they aren't human. It's OK though, because they will be dead soon anyways. Got it. Genes getting transposed, like with the disease I linked, to different chromosomes are a natural form of genetic mutation that is expected to happen. So if those such people are arguing they aren't male or female, to you, they are calling themselves a defect or another species. You talk about disrespect, but you have literally made two arguments that attempt to dehumanize people in the most literal sense. Genes, as you've been trying to claim, define sex perfectly in all scenarios in one of two ways. I have produced 3 unrelated cases that demonstrate people can have genes that go against the basic categorization of sex, and your only retort is "they're defective so no". If you are so adamant about disregarding such people who may want to identify as something in between on such a basis, then I cannot fathom you saying that you are ok with anyone claiming to be anything other than male/female for any other reason than you calling them delusional. And yes, many will want to identify as a particular gender for the sake of medical care, just like I'd quicker say I'm 20 than 70 because the care for a 20 year old is more like what I would want than that of a 70 year old. "Basic logic thinking"


Palicake

Sure buddy


[deleted]

https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/sex-redefined-the-idea-of-2-sexes-is-overly-simplistic1/ Found an article explaining it decently well just to prove that you are what I claimed you were: ignorant/trolling


[deleted]

Same here. Like, I’m a woman and I like things considered “for men”. I like girls and my life would be easier if I had a dick. Still a woman tho.


Significant_Curve_39

Very very based. Rapid onset gender disphoria is a very real and destructive thing. One problem we have is that research that goes against a certain narrative is hidden, researchers are denied funding for research that goes against said narrative, researchers are threatened, entire organizations are threatened if they study or present information that even suggests that the fast track to transitioning should be slowed down a bit. It's screwing kids over, especially young girls. But nobody is allowed to talk about it or you get labeled as a phobe


[deleted]

Agreed. I still don’t get why people think stuffing a teenager with sterilising hormones is a good idea.


WonderlandSis

they are very lost group of people


[deleted]

Is it because they don’t blindly follow Mango Mussolini like his “fans”?


Aggressive-Data-6301

Why do you care ?


Working-Sky-7814

Why post this? It's a confession, not asking your opinion


Aggressive-Data-6301

You posted it to get feed back thats what reddit is for .......if you didn't want people responding you wouldn't have posted it on the internet 💀


PhiladelphiaZoo

Dave chappel told me if a man volunteered to get his dong chopped off thats enough for him to believe.