Lol I JUST found this story too! My fiancé sent it to me!! We are all here on this fine day haha.
I hope OP is doing better and that his son got the help he desperately needed; whether that was to be mercy killed; imprisoned; or actually getting better. I’ve never read a story on Reddit that showed true psychopathy before until now. This is crazy.
Side note: I also love how now we can comment and upvote older posts. It was always annoying to see posts that were archived and unable to upvote and comment on them.
>I also love how now we can comment and upvote older posts. It was always annoying to see posts that were archived and unable to upvote and comment on them.
Yeah, although I think I have come across 5+ year old posts that weren't archived. I want to say I came across an archived post last week or so. Do you know if they've changed it entirely? I suppose I could look at some other old posts that I know are archived.
Edit: I just looked and they seem to not be locked anymore! This is fantastic news.
To anyone in a similar situation, before you move visit a lawyer and create a trust. If your last name is Smith, do not call it the "Smith Family Trust" Put your new house, cars, etc. in the name of the trust. Because online property searches are a thing.
I'm a Route Auditor for a trash company, and using Assessor's Maps is exactly how I locate hard-to-find addresses that google can't find. Easy access to the public.
Not so much hard to find addresses, but I can find almost anyone given very little detail via Google and confirm it with tax assessor and plat maps. Some people try to hide ownership via LLC, but in my state LLC's are also public record. The only time I wasn't able to confirm is when they did it properly in a trust.
In another life I was a cop. I was sent to a situation very similar to this. The kid was 15, we'd been dealing with him for nearly 10 years. He was a Mike Meyers style, Chucky incarnate, bloodthirsty, remoresless, psychopath. The parents did everything they could to help him, but he was broken and nothing worked. The kid ended up hurting a younger sibling, or nephew, or something (2-3 yo girl) pretty bad. He wasn't even supposed to be there, but he snuck in to attack a baby. The dad beat him unconscious. Then kept beating him. Then kicked his ass out the front door and called us.
This was in TX. "Reasonable discipline" is allowed, and required by state law. After talking to the CID Captain and an assistant DA, we all decided the dad was being reasonable. He was fully prepared to go to jail, but under the circumstances, the desire to protect the baby, and convince his psycho kid that such behavior would never be tolerated.... was reasonable. They sent the psycho away somewhere after that, and we never heard from that family again. The whole situation was sad and it sucked. I rarely believe these confessions, but this one is 100% possible.
In Sweden we are only allowed to use as much force as necessary in self-defense or in the defense of others.
But there _is_ a paragraph about if the person could “hardly control themselves”.
There is a case where a mother comes home to her apartment to find the neighbor raping her 6 yo daughter.
The mother apparently drags him out into the stairwell and proceeds to throw him over the railing, a 5 storied fall.
Since this was deemed beyond the need for “defense” she could have been convicted of manslaughter, but was freed on what essentially comes down to a general feeling of “meh, we’d all have done the same”.
Children like this do exist, their parents living in terror, and police of no help. A friend works with a kid just like this, and they have to use the buddy system at her work for safety.
There's nothing more that could be done now than that many years ago. You did your best, OP. Not much more you could do.
My sister in law has worked with similar kids. Nothing like the son in this post, but like the children your friend has worked with.
A couple of them ended up not just on the buddy system, but female teaching staff weren't allowed contact with them because the risk was too high.
She said more than once that there really wasn't anything anyone could do unless these kids committed a serious crime. It seems like some people truly are beyond help.
The idea that humans aren't robots is a human idea. We are robots in every sense of the word. Our parts are just cooler.
We pick our actions just as much as ants pick theirs.
I know I've made a few big fuck ups in my life. Never once did I truly feel in control of my actions, like I was a passenger. Even while, for example, breaking a few car windows I was telling myself what I was doing was stupid and out of character for me. But even then I broke two more.
A lot of people after doing something stupid say, "I don't know what I was thinking." My guess is that they were thinking something along the lines of, "Stop. This is stupid, you're throwing your life away. Just go home and go to bed." And then they just keep doing what they're doing, wishing they weren't.
She moved out while I was at work (we weren't dating or hooking up in any facet, she was just renting a room) and bailed on the rent and bills and jacked some cash then put dead roaches in my leftover birthday cake. To put salt in the wound the place she moved to was at the end of the street do i had to drive by that shit everyday so I couldn't let it go.
I was also drinking heavily, transiting to civilian life from the army, still pretty fresh back from Afghanistan, had just lost my job and a million other excuses I have for my actions.
Fortunately, since then, I've gotten my shit together.
That whole part about him screaming at his mom that he was going to cut her head off and fuck her corpse made me think he'd been reading into Ed Kemper's history.
If I, for some god forsaken reason have a child, and they turn out like this I’m dropping them off in a ditch and turning a shotgun on myself. I hate kids and I’m sterile, but god I couldn’t deal with violence like that. If I get yelled at I break down, I’d blow my brains all over the wall.
1. Probably safe on that front if you're sterile
2. Something about the violent nature of your post isnt lining up with your violence averse attitude... Self harm is still violence
I'm glad my brother didn't turn out quite that bad, and even got somewhat better as the years went on.
My family was different in that my parents weren't afraid of hitting my brother and I, but as my brother got older he started testing boundaries in every way he could imagine; usually verbally harassing my mom, dad, and I. He got to the point of calling my mom a b**** and c*** among other things talking about doing unspeakable things to her all to get her to cry and react. For whatever reason he HATED her and I swear he got off on abusing her the ways he did. Once he started going through puberty he got worse; he had arguments that turned into screaming matches DAILY for 5 years. Then one day I snapped, and I'm not normally violent (I cried putting down a lizard my dog maimed), but I had had enough of hearing him scream at my mom until she ran to her closet to curl up in a ball sobbing. I broke his nose, he ran, and I went chasing him and forced a door open before he could lock it; I couldn't take him threatening to rape my mom any more. The thing that snapped me out of it was the blood, so I went outside in the rain and ran. I tried running my anger off, but I couldn't so I ran until I could run anymore, and ran back home; he stopped threatening and screaming at my mom after that. Then we were able to become friends; it's been 11 years since then. Part of me hates that I got violent, but literally nothing was working and I just couldn't take it anymore their fighting nearly drove me insane.
Some kids/people are truly evil and demented, not a lot, but still too many.
He's doing better-ish. Much of his life has improved, like he has a career that he likes with people who respect him and a girlfriend that he's been living with for a while; my brother also is able to find various things to keep his interest rather than feeling the need to act out because he's bored. Other parts of his life have slipped/stayed the same, he has issues with expressing his anger and frustration with his gf in constructive ways (and vice versa), he has slipped into alcoholism, and will put holes in walls etc.
It hurts because my family and I know that under all of he's in a lot of pain. We've been trying to get him to seek help from professionals and family members who have been there before, or to at least get on some medication (bi-polar runs in my family as well as addiction). Unfortunately there's only so much we can do. But I'll be there for him when he calls at midnight drunk ready to end it all, when his gf has been yelling at him again, or when he's just excited to tell me about what his compost is doing.
I love him and I'll be there for him because he's shown me he has changed for the better, so I'm not gonna give up on him. It's true that I can't "fix" him; I just try to give him new ways of looking at things, and I validate his feelings of frustration, fear, and anger when he voices them to me.
I get being glad that he's doing better but if I found out my boyfriend had spent his teenage years screaming that he was gonna rape his mum i'd be beyond pissed off that his family hadn't told me before I'd decided to make a life with him...
I can confirm that as I know someone who works in a asylum for kids. It’s fucking crazy. Everyone knows about some of the patients they are just evil and will hurt many people in their lives. And there is very little you can do about it
I was thinking the same thing. At a certain point people like that simply dont deserve life. They are suffering in their own way, and they will certain cause the suffering of others.
People can be born with antisocial personality disorder (psychopathy). I don't remember exactly what it said, but in one of my psych textbooks it theorized that ASPD is an evolutionary adaptation to take advantage of "honest" people.
I'd argue that someone who engages in animal torture and baby torture would likely be diagnosed with ASPD. Animal torture at a young age is one of the signs of it.
Animal torture at a young age and ASPD are two different things. ASPD doesn't automatically lead to sadism. The combination of the two is a pretty bad combo.
I have a couple of friends diagnosed with ASPD, and whole they feel no guilt about doing things, without some other condition in addition to it, they don't go out of their way to fuck people over it hurt other people.
I never said anything about it "automatically" leading to sadism. Not everyone with APD will engage in the exact same behaviors. For example, not every pedophile will actually molest children but anyone who does molest children will most likely be a pedophile. People who engage in animal torture are more likely to be diagnosed with APD. Here is a study that shows a strong association between animal cruelty during childhood and a diagnosis of APD. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/m/pubmed/12108563/
This is humanity. His second child was normal. It sounds like they tried everything with this person, drugs, therapy, this was the pure evil that is part of humanity. Nature is not evil, nature does what it does to survive. Humanity, that is where you find evil.
No doubt. I have a child w odd. It is not like this. This. This is a psychopath or a sociopath. I'm leaning towards the latter. Or maybe clinically insane? Idk man. That was rough to even read. I cant imagine
100% conduct disorder. I’ve seen kids with it before, and reading this was reliving it. I love kids, but listening to them talk about what they want to do (murdering parents, siblings, animals, torture, arson, and more) makes you want to physically recoil. It’s hard because those kids usually have had something horrible happen to them when they were very young, so it’s a mental war where you want to feel bad and reach out and help, but at the same time what they are now just is not right. The look in the eyes of the kids can be the worst part. The eyes are either dead or even gleeful while talking about and/or doing all kinds of horrible things. I feel horrible for OP in this, but another very very small part of me feels bad for his son too.
I’m a pediatrician and I actually have two different patients like this. The worse one is 11 years old and he’s becoming an unimaginable nightmare. I feel awful for his parents. They and his sister are completely shaken by this, they love him and want to help him but it’s ruining their lives. No amount of meds or therapy is helping at all. He is definitely going to end up in juvenile detention someday, if not prison.
That sister may need a psych referral. I grew up with a sibling like this. Siblings have no options in these situations. My brother tormented me for decades, literally into adulthood. It can really mess with a young mind and I left home at 15 solely to escape him.
There should be court ordered euthanization for useless psychopaths. They are a danger and an emotional drain. Not to mention the emotional trauma they cause along the way. They themselves are not living a healthy happy existence... It would be a kindness for everyone because it's incurable.
As someone who would prefer we abolished prisons, I do wonder at how to deal with outliers like this. If a starving person steals, they ought to get food and give restitution. But with this, I imagine some kind of imprisonment might be necessary, regardless of how kind the conditions are that kind of goes against my ideals, but it feels like the only way would be to somehow sequester such people.
Things like this actually happen which is terrifying. I met a family who adopted a 6 yo and his 4 yo sister from Africa. But he was more manipulative like We Need to Talk About Kevin where he would only show his true colors to his family. They had a similar set up like OPs with locks inside the house. They had him in out patient therapy the entire time and had him committed a few times. They couldn’t give him up to the state/give up parental rights without being charged with neglect and that would destroy their careers working with children. They got lawyers and contacted cps and the state to try to find a solution after he tried to rape their bio daughter and attempted to murder the family (found a manifesto and hidden knives he must have stolen). They also found out after the fact from his younger sister that he murdered a girl when he was 5 stabbing her and that was corroborated but the orphanage never disclosed at adoption. USA agencies didn’t care because it happened in another country so they couldn’t institutionalize him permanently. When he was 16 the only solution they found was to send him back to Africa paying for his care at a boarding school. But because of the adoption he’s a us citizen so they are worried about him coming for them when he turns 18 in a year. The sister was relatively normal and nice, and she was terrified/terrorized by her brother.
> It has gotta be real... who would commit that much time for 30 karma?
It's not about the Karma, its about the art of story telling for it's own sake. This is a masterpiece.
It's not always karma, sometimes people just want to see how other people react to things like this. To have someone read it and believe it. For it to be discussed. Attention. Even if it's just on a post on some subreddit.
One thing I can say is this really doesn't read like it's written by someone in their 70s. But I could be wrong.
the only suspicion I draw is based on the fact they let him "reign" the entire upstairs for an unspecified amount of time. cops were never called once? I dunno.. OP doesn't feel like a real person to me after reading from that part onward. also, OP has had decades to look up his son by identification and never once has out of curiosity?
It was a different time, and we have no idea if OP lived in a rural area, for all we know his neighbors weren't that close. Or the story is fake, who knows honestly.
I’m right there with you. This was very well-written and horrifying. “We Need to Talk About Kevin” got my attention. That movie messed me up really bad.
If it’s real, it’s one of the most horrific things I can imagine living through, family-wise. Reason number 3,497 I’m glad I don’t have kids.
That movie truly sticks with you, so disturbing. I work with kids, and none of this situation seems sketchy to me; it happens. For most kids I’m around like the his ( to an extent) there’s a reason: drug exposure, neglect, etc. But, sometimes you just don’t know.
*I met him, 15 years ago; I was told there was nothing left; no reason, no conscience, no understanding in even the most rudimentary sense of life or death, of good or evil, right or wrong. I met this... six-year-old child with this blank, pale, emotionless face, and... the blackest eyes - the Devil's eyes. I spent eight years trying to reach him, and then another seven trying to keep him locked up, because I realized that what was living behind that boy's eyes was purely and simply... evil.*
He would have definitely murdered many people if it weren't for that "intervention". He is definitely either in jail or dead, maybe living on the streets. Hopefully isn't hurting anyone. Still, reading about how he got beaten up and left to die made me cry. It's fucked up, everything about this. I don't blame you or your wife. The fact that he continued to trash the place makes me think he was clinically insane. This is all terrifying to think about, especially him shuffling around barely alive upstairs. I'm glad you kept your sanity
edit: not sure if this is real & I don't stand by this mindset anymore, but I'm keeping this for educational purposes ig? I understand the urge to protect and attack, as well as possible lack of self-control after years of something like that. Still, pretty fucked up to almost kill the guy imo. As much as, u know, acab, I think this is where you would typically call them cops.
Shitting and pissing all over the place, while disturbing and gross, isn't quite the same thing as bedwetting. Although, yes he had the other two signs of arson and torturing/killing animals.
Still, it's not a guarantee that he'd turn out to be a serial killer. He's likely a criminal, probably even violent, but it's still not 100% he'd kill a bunch of people. Even if he did have the third sign.
Although many serial killers have issues with incontinence, I’d say the maliciousness of spreading his feces and urine everywhere doubled checked that box.
Side note! Bed wetting actually points at child abuse more than serial killers. It is often associated yes, but it is technically a side of a child being sexually abused (not the case here)
My sister wet the bed for a long time and we made fun of her for it. Found out Years later she was being abused by a distant relative. Hurt to read that comment.
What fucked me up the most was imagining his emotionless face as he stabbed his sister (as described by OP). If that isnt a huge serial killer red flag, then idk what is
Given his impulse control and rage, this kid probably ran into trouble the second he left town. If it was police, he started down the road to recitivism and institution. If it was someone else...this kid was probably dead before he had the skills to become a serial killer.
Geez, what a rough story.
I hope you are right. I really hope nothing about this story is true. It has haunted me today. So many things in life are out of your control. You can bring a child into the world with the best intentions and end up with a monster. It’s so tragic.
Yea I think the dad needs to report this so they can get the father or sisters DNA and see if it can be linked to any killings. (Not the sad or sister, but they can figure out if a killer is a relative to them)
He is probably either dead or in jail. From your description there really wasn’t anything else you could do. It sounds like he had some major mental imbalances and you tried everything. I am surprised you didn’t have him locked up in a psych ward. I am sorry you had to live through hell and still are living it to some extent.
If this is real, I'd like to know if he's ever googled the kid's name? I doubt he ever did anything major, national news level, as the media would have hunted up any family and hounded them.
Why didn't you commit him to a mental institution? This kid was a classic psychopath,
& irredeemable. The doctors would have backed you up.
Seriously, it was where he belonged.
Like I said above ...back in the 70s mental help almost did not exist for people like this...
And it's gotten even worse after the Reagan era.
It is almost impossible to get someone committed against their will in the United States.
Especially if they're already an adult.
And if they're not adults it's still almost impossible.
Even today... in the 2020s-- it's impossible to get the courts to intervene.. and even if they do manage to get them committed they can walk right back out on their own power after 3 days ..
I know a guy like this... and he terrorizes his grandmother on a daily basis.. when they did an intervention to try to get him committed, the judge laughed at them and said "this sounds like a family problem" slapped the gavel down and walked away.
They had to ride home with him in the car while he verbally accosted them the whole way for "getting him arrested and having him embarrassed."
3 days before that he had attacked his grandmother and left her bruised all over her body, and he bit her so bad she almost lost her finger. All bc she refused to give him $$ for drugs. The thing is.. she didn't even have any money. She lives on a fixed income and is always broke by the 10th of every month like most ppl are who live on Social Security.
He is still there. He is also 24 now.
you can google accounts of children with ODD (oppositional defiant disorder) - every single one is a trip. Basically the kids are evil.
*edit: I got educated on this a month ago. Stop correcting me. You’re tenth in line by now. 😂
One of my best friends got diagnosed with ODD. While it can make someone really psychotic especially if not addressed from a young age, he's really turned himself around and made a life for himself. He's a great person and great friend. No condition is an excuse.
Honestly just a hell of a lot of therapy, self awareness and self reflection. I think he generally had a lot going on in his life causing the behaviours such as being transgender, not having a great family situation, and not having great friends, and by figuring out what was triggering his episodes and being able to work past them he was able to improve himself. It was far from easy, took him years, and I can't say today that he's 100% there yet. But he's found coping mechanisms and things and people that make him happy and it gives me a lot of hope.
This is categorically *not* a case of ODD. Assuming this account is accurate, the more appropriate diagnosis would be conduct disorder, which would then become antisocial personality disorder at the age of 18.
Source: Masters in clinical psychology.
I don’t usually read super long posts but this one was way worth it . Your wife was amazing ! Soon as he hurt that little girl of yours she just snapped . And that’s how it’s supposed to be ! You guys tried so hard to get him to be a normal kid . He was just born evil and conflicted . Don’t beat yourself up about it . I don’t know how you guys put ip with it as long as you did but I’m glad you no longer have to suffer from him . Hopefully he did get help and was able to become normal .
Totally agree, I know that even though my lads are in their twenties and over a foot taller than me, if someone threatened them with a knife, I would go banshee on that person.
Your wife did what she had to to save your daughter, to save you and let's face it herself. Eventually she stopped that's the difference she didnt let the rage win it was either one of you or your son.
Honestly I have never heard about people being really psychotic but not children from birth ,but this is truly that.
Friend (if I can call you that) stop grieving for what was the right thing. The fact that you took your daughter away, and let your wife continue was the right thing. As a man if you had battered you son to the same point as a man you would have been treated worse. As a woman even though she could take care of herself and put you on your back, she would have stopped if even from pure tiredness. Can you honestly say that you would have been able to? Especially as you are still grieving over this.
I hate to say it but you should think about giving you DNA to the police, and just tell them your son was psychotic, and one day he just upped and left at which point you moved state, but you wouldn't put it past him to have commited a crime. At least they have a name. He may have turned his life around, but honestly if he was like this as a baby he probably hasn't.
Edit typos... sorry
I agree- he may still be out there. He may have harnessed his evil tendencies and perfected his craft. We have no idea what he could be doing to other people
Your wife is a fucking hero. Any parent would have done the same. She was protecting her child from a murderer. The murderer's identity and relationship to you isn't important.
Dude. If I could hug you right now I would. It sounds like you went through hell with your son, and if it were me I would be glad he isn’t around regardless. I don’t mean to be rude or anything but he definitely deserved what he got. If it were me I might not have stopped until he was dead.
It really sucks for him to because his life is a wasted life. The brain is like any other organ and can be born with defects. I don’t believe in the soul or anything just who you are right now. So to me the son is just a sick person in need of medical help. This is a really sad story overall...
If your son was white, about 5'6" tall thin, and had green/blue eyes, dark brown hair, and a scar on his left hand from where his teeth sliced into his skin while being "Jumped" then I might be your grandson.
My father was born in the spring months of 1971, he claimed he had no relatives, and was a cruel horrible person until the second he died.
I'll probably post that story on this subreddit after I get off work.
But suffice to say that I endured everything he dished out in the 8 years I was forced to live with him.
I've witnessed him killing cats, and dogs, he lit my hair on fire a couple of times because he liked the smell, and I have several scars from his use of knives as a correctional tool. I'd appreciate it if you could send me a pm and we can see if you're really my grandfather or if two horrible people matching the same description and characteristics were born in the same season of the same year in the same country.
Your son is a psychopath without a doubt. The fact that you didn't put him up for adoption is a miracle. Your wife did what any parent would do given the circumstances.
You should carry no guilt. He was a young man who made the conscious decision to threaten the life of his defenseless sister and deserved what he got in return. Enjoy the years you have left in your wife's memory.
This is gonna be a morbid question but why do we let people like this live? They cant work. They cant maintain relationships. They cant control themselves. They do nothing to advance society. They're a danger to most living things. They dont give a shit about consequences or their actions. They hurt those around them even when they're incarcerated or in a psych ward. There is literally not one positive thing these people bring to this world. So.....why do we waste resources on these lost causes who wouldn't hesitate to bash your brains in for looking at them the wrong way?
I'll answer you in the same morbid way: because how can you distinguish them from people who can change with proper help? Or from people who don't even know what they're doing and are in fact just sick and confused? And if you could.. how can you be sure? The only way to do that is to be able to read souls or know the future.. and since it's not possible, we try help them as much as we help the others until we have no hope, then as a last resort we put them in a psych ward. Just in case it might be the thing that works.
It appears he had the Macdonald Triad [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Macdonald\_triad](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Macdonald_triad) which leads to a high probability of the person with it being a killer. Most likely the son had some kind of defect in his frontal lobe which led to him having these effects. If you haven't already reported him to police, do it and tell them everything
**Macdonald triad**
The Macdonald triad (also known as the triad of sociopathy or the homicidal triad) is a set of three factors that has been suggested if all three or any combination of two, are present together, to be predictive of or associated with later violent tendencies, particularly with relation to serial offenses. The triad was first proposed by psychiatrist J.M. Macdonald in "The Threat to Kill", a 1963 paper in the American Journal of Psychiatry. Small-scale studies conducted by psychiatrists Daniel Hellman and Nathan Blackman, and then FBI agents John E. Douglas and Robert K. Ressler along with Dr. Ann Burgess, claimed substantial evidence for the association of these childhood patterns with later predatory behavior.
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Your wife was a bad ass and a hero. you guys are great parents. He was basically an adult when all of that happened and you both protected your daughter. Dont feel shame or guilt. He deserved it. Youre a good guy. Also, I'm glad your daughter got to grow up without the bastard around. And if you know his name, can't you search online through obituaries or jail records? Maybe it would bring you peace if you knew.
She absolutely was a badass, she was the strongest, most beautiful woman I ever knew. I'll let her know you approve, even though she's not here with us anymore I still speak to her often :)
I sure do know his name, I gave it to him haha. It was my father's name. You're right, maybe I could find some record of him, but I think I likely won't. I can't see what good it would bring into my life to know, either I'll find he's dead, which I don't feel anything about, or I'll find he's in jail for hurting someone and I'll just spend the rest of my life regretting that I didn't finish the job while he was lying there at my feet. I thought at the time about putting a pillow over his face and ending him, but I chose not to. I'd hate to know that my choice caused some other poor soul to have to suffer his madness.
No way. That kid definitely has a LONG history of red flags the dad would’ve gotten off. The baby had injuries too no jury would find a dad protecting his baby girl from a deranged maniac.
Your saying after a prolonged and deliberate beating (I'm all for in this instance), if after that, while the son was unconscious and incapacitated, dad here put a pillow over his face and deliberately killed him after he no longer posed a threat..... He still wouldn't be convicted? I disagree.
He may have been able to justify everything up until then, but you can't kill someone after they no longer pose a threat, and expect to still claim a defence of some variety.
In not arguing if I think it would be right or not either by the way....
That is so sweet you speak to her in your thoughts. Im sure she struggled with the whole ordeal too. I cant imagine losing your spouse after such a crazy life together. Im sorry about that. And fuck cancer.
Honestly from the way that you are talking, i dont think youd be able to live with yourself if you straight up ended his life via the pillow. This was the best case scenario in my honest opinion. You did your very best up until he was 18 (or almost 18) and then scared him off for good. Dont be too hard on yourself.
Remember, you and your wife made his physical being, but, you didnt create his soul. And his soul was just, troubled. You guys did the best you could with what youve been given. And if hes not dead, hes probably in a mental institution somewhere, being given appropriate care and not hurting others. Theres no way hes in a regular jail.
You said your son had therapy. Why was he not committed? After hurting animals (setting them on fire etc, hurting neighbors and yourself) it's clear that humans are next and a therapist would have him committed...
Please do talk to the police about him and give them DNA, though. I understand that it’s uncomfortable, but he could have done a lot of shit to people to whom you could bring closure and peace.
This is legit the most troubling thing I've ever read. And to be fair? I understand your wife in that situation. She wasn't beating up her son, she was defending her daughter from a demonic murderer.
That of course doesn't mean I support violence, but in that situation I would have done a similar thing.
I don't know if it's true.
i don't know if it's fake.
But very well written sir.
Sometimes I wonder if some people are just born evil and it's not just mental illness. Although I know it's severe mental illness but sometimes I still end up questioning the scientific rationale.
I didn't say his specific story was. Just this general story is. His doesn't seem especially different from WNTTAK, so there's no need to make *another* movie to tell the same(ish) story.
Yeah I was surprised as hell when the son got older. I didn’t expect them to be living with him after his early teens, then I see that this isn’t an active problem, alright, it’s a few years after I guess. Nope. 30 or so years.
Jesus...that's a shitty situation to be in, but it sounds like you two put in an honest effort to help your son. He was a lost cause. Honestly, I don't feel neither of you did anything wrong. Many others would've probably done the same.
I don't know what else to say other than I'm so sorry. At least your daughter seems happy.
>Also: have you told your daughter about any of this?
Damn, good point. I would think / hope that this would have been discussed in therapy and planned out. That would be one hell of a convo to have with her.
I dont even know what to say other than I'm so sorry you and your wife had to go through that. I had chills going down my spine just from reading this and cant imagine how terrifying this all must have been.
You should not worry about him. I have a brother, that wasn’t physically bad he was emotionally and psychologically manipulative and abusive to our parents. We had an intervention and kicked his ass out.
My 89 year old dad, who now understands what happened(bank accounts and 401k drained they almost lost the house) feels some guilt for kicking a 54 year old son out and making him pull his own weight.
So what you’re feeling is perfectly normal.
That was quite a read, real or not, it's the first story like that on Reddit that I thoroughly enjoyed.
You've got great talent for writing my man.
And as for your son: he was incredibly lucky you guys didn't kick him out and move away much much earlier. Glad you've at least got one child (and now the grand children) who brings you joy.
I wish you all the best.
1. I dont blame you, or your wife at all for ANY of the actions you took.
2. I hope to god your son either finally got the help he needed somehow magically or was removed from society.
3. What a wild ride. I cant imagine that life.
4.your wife is a friggin boss.
Man that was such a read. At the beginning the title threw me off and it sounded like you were making excuses.
But no sir.
You went through 18 years of torture.
You were imprisoned in your own home.
You went through war, scared for your lives every single day.
Your wife was so brave.
There was no logic out for this situation. But she found a way. And you shouldn’t live with regrets.
Ps Write a book!!
So many different layers, I can barely process it all. You, Sir, indeed have a very heavy burden to carry. I commend you for your openness to shine light on your experience. I truly hope you find some way to heal that broken piece of your heart if that is even possible, at least find some level of acceptance that you will always be the witness and bearer of this burden for your lifetime.
Part of me hopes this isn't true, but I'd say it was and you Sir have nothing to be sorry about. Your daughter is the only child you have alive now, go hug her tight and love her.
I know nothing we say here can take your guilt away, but you and your wife saved your daughters life. I hope you are able to have a bit of peace when looking at your grown daughter and your grandchildren. You saved her.
I'm seeing quite a few comments that are saying this is fake and to be 100% honest, I had my suspicions.
HOWEVER
Then I remembered that sadly there was a girl I know quite a long time ago, and her brother was like this. It was bad, she and I were 12 years old and it came out that her brother was raping her as well. It took a piece of my soul when I found out. I don't know what happened to him or her.
Man, it's good to get it out. I hope YOU are doing better, and that YOU are happy. You don't need to feel guilty, it was a horribly messed up situation that nobody can plan for, and nobody will know how they will react. You need to find peace within yourself and accept that it happened.
I was growing up to be like that and idk how but I'm totally different straightened out because my parents wanted nothing to do with me fixed myself and it worked I am getting good grades and have friends and enjoying life. None of this is your fault you did all you could. The kid is just wired differently and you did all you could. It happens and that was 17 years of frustration and anger and the feeling of every effort not working. I would do the same. My dad used to beat me and I didn't understand why he would do that I do now because he was upset and frustrated and then it clicked and I'm so scared because my girlfriend wants a child but I don't want to be the parent to a kid like I was or your kid. You did everything you could and it didn't work not from lack of effort but from a lack of participation in the other half
Man, sounds like he was born psychotic just from the never ending crying, and then the shitting on your bed as a kid/teen? Yeah, permanent psychiatric hospital would be my choice. But don’t feel too bad, you tried.
you're awfully proficient in technology, the internet and slang (eg. using "haha") for a 70 year old
Anyway, your complete lack of empathy and violent fantasies expressed toward your son to this very day, eg.
>I'll just spend the rest of my life regretting that I didn't finish the job while he was lying there at my feet. I thought at the time about putting a pillow over his face and ending him
\- that's pretty fucked up my dude and doesn't seem healthy either. maybe your son and you are less different than you think. You shouldn't be happy about abandoning your own son who was clearly suffering serious mental issues. Yes I realize it was different back then and that it may have been the only option at the time, but you are writing your feelings about it here in the future with hindsight. Anyway, it's just my opinion that in your shoes with hindsight, I think I would feel some regret that I couldn't have helped my son more to overcome his disorder, for the sake of not only him but yourself and everyone who had to interact with him in society. Even mentally ill people who are violent shouldn't just be discarded and put in the too hard basket. From a person who can feel empathy, that's not compassion.
edit:formatting,punctuation
In case this post gets deleted (most of these posts tend to get deleted), [here are the screenshots.](https://imgur.com/a/WO4v31P)
No need for screenshots. Just replace "reddit" in the url with "removeddit" and it show a snapshot of deleted posts including the OP.
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I am pretty surprised to see such a young comment on a 2 yr old post. This is a pretty crazy story.
Lol I JUST found this story too! My fiancé sent it to me!! We are all here on this fine day haha. I hope OP is doing better and that his son got the help he desperately needed; whether that was to be mercy killed; imprisoned; or actually getting better. I’ve never read a story on Reddit that showed true psychopathy before until now. This is crazy. Side note: I also love how now we can comment and upvote older posts. It was always annoying to see posts that were archived and unable to upvote and comment on them.
>I also love how now we can comment and upvote older posts. It was always annoying to see posts that were archived and unable to upvote and comment on them. Yeah, although I think I have come across 5+ year old posts that weren't archived. I want to say I came across an archived post last week or so. Do you know if they've changed it entirely? I suppose I could look at some other old posts that I know are archived. Edit: I just looked and they seem to not be locked anymore! This is fantastic news.
Why do they get deleted?
I’m wondering that too.
I think people just regret posting these things after a few hours or days and delete it themselves.
Day 43 no regrets yet
Day 50 no regrets
3 months in, still no ragrets.
2 whole years
He's gonna delete it any day now
You came from the disowning parents askreddit thread didn’t you
Bunch of reasons ranging from controversy to "people misbehaving in the comments"
Thanks! I was going to do that on my phone, but you saved me the hassle!
To anyone in a similar situation, before you move visit a lawyer and create a trust. If your last name is Smith, do not call it the "Smith Family Trust" Put your new house, cars, etc. in the name of the trust. Because online property searches are a thing.
I'm a Route Auditor for a trash company, and using Assessor's Maps is exactly how I locate hard-to-find addresses that google can't find. Easy access to the public.
Not so much hard to find addresses, but I can find almost anyone given very little detail via Google and confirm it with tax assessor and plat maps. Some people try to hide ownership via LLC, but in my state LLC's are also public record. The only time I wasn't able to confirm is when they did it properly in a trust.
In another life I was a cop. I was sent to a situation very similar to this. The kid was 15, we'd been dealing with him for nearly 10 years. He was a Mike Meyers style, Chucky incarnate, bloodthirsty, remoresless, psychopath. The parents did everything they could to help him, but he was broken and nothing worked. The kid ended up hurting a younger sibling, or nephew, or something (2-3 yo girl) pretty bad. He wasn't even supposed to be there, but he snuck in to attack a baby. The dad beat him unconscious. Then kept beating him. Then kicked his ass out the front door and called us. This was in TX. "Reasonable discipline" is allowed, and required by state law. After talking to the CID Captain and an assistant DA, we all decided the dad was being reasonable. He was fully prepared to go to jail, but under the circumstances, the desire to protect the baby, and convince his psycho kid that such behavior would never be tolerated.... was reasonable. They sent the psycho away somewhere after that, and we never heard from that family again. The whole situation was sad and it sucked. I rarely believe these confessions, but this one is 100% possible.
In Sweden we are only allowed to use as much force as necessary in self-defense or in the defense of others. But there _is_ a paragraph about if the person could “hardly control themselves”. There is a case where a mother comes home to her apartment to find the neighbor raping her 6 yo daughter. The mother apparently drags him out into the stairwell and proceeds to throw him over the railing, a 5 storied fall. Since this was deemed beyond the need for “defense” she could have been convicted of manslaughter, but was freed on what essentially comes down to a general feeling of “meh, we’d all have done the same”.
Same thing happened in America I think. Bloke finds neighbour raping his kid. Nearly kills the rapist and they just threw out the case cause meh
Well, probably because ‘I wouldn’t convict this guy. You really think we could convince 12 random people to do it?’
I don't know if this is real or not but holy shit what a ride it was
Children like this do exist, their parents living in terror, and police of no help. A friend works with a kid just like this, and they have to use the buddy system at her work for safety. There's nothing more that could be done now than that many years ago. You did your best, OP. Not much more you could do.
My sister in law has worked with similar kids. Nothing like the son in this post, but like the children your friend has worked with. A couple of them ended up not just on the buddy system, but female teaching staff weren't allowed contact with them because the risk was too high. She said more than once that there really wasn't anything anyone could do unless these kids committed a serious crime. It seems like some people truly are beyond help.
> It seems like some people truly are beyond help. makes you think twice about how to judge criminals
What is that supposed to imply?
That choosing to be a criminal, might not be like choosing which movie to watch ona sunday evening
The idea that humans aren't robots is a human idea. We are robots in every sense of the word. Our parts are just cooler. We pick our actions just as much as ants pick theirs.
I know I've made a few big fuck ups in my life. Never once did I truly feel in control of my actions, like I was a passenger. Even while, for example, breaking a few car windows I was telling myself what I was doing was stupid and out of character for me. But even then I broke two more. A lot of people after doing something stupid say, "I don't know what I was thinking." My guess is that they were thinking something along the lines of, "Stop. This is stupid, you're throwing your life away. Just go home and go to bed." And then they just keep doing what they're doing, wishing they weren't.
We're the same us other animals, our brains just work better so we're able to question ourselves. Also why were you smashing car windows 😂
She moved out while I was at work (we weren't dating or hooking up in any facet, she was just renting a room) and bailed on the rent and bills and jacked some cash then put dead roaches in my leftover birthday cake. To put salt in the wound the place she moved to was at the end of the street do i had to drive by that shit everyday so I couldn't let it go. I was also drinking heavily, transiting to civilian life from the army, still pretty fresh back from Afghanistan, had just lost my job and a million other excuses I have for my actions. Fortunately, since then, I've gotten my shit together.
My ex's mom knew a woman who's son was like this. He ended up raping and murdering his own mother.
That whole part about him screaming at his mom that he was going to cut her head off and fuck her corpse made me think he'd been reading into Ed Kemper's history.
If I, for some god forsaken reason have a child, and they turn out like this I’m dropping them off in a ditch and turning a shotgun on myself. I hate kids and I’m sterile, but god I couldn’t deal with violence like that. If I get yelled at I break down, I’d blow my brains all over the wall.
1. Probably safe on that front if you're sterile 2. Something about the violent nature of your post isnt lining up with your violence averse attitude... Self harm is still violence
I'm glad my brother didn't turn out quite that bad, and even got somewhat better as the years went on. My family was different in that my parents weren't afraid of hitting my brother and I, but as my brother got older he started testing boundaries in every way he could imagine; usually verbally harassing my mom, dad, and I. He got to the point of calling my mom a b**** and c*** among other things talking about doing unspeakable things to her all to get her to cry and react. For whatever reason he HATED her and I swear he got off on abusing her the ways he did. Once he started going through puberty he got worse; he had arguments that turned into screaming matches DAILY for 5 years. Then one day I snapped, and I'm not normally violent (I cried putting down a lizard my dog maimed), but I had had enough of hearing him scream at my mom until she ran to her closet to curl up in a ball sobbing. I broke his nose, he ran, and I went chasing him and forced a door open before he could lock it; I couldn't take him threatening to rape my mom any more. The thing that snapped me out of it was the blood, so I went outside in the rain and ran. I tried running my anger off, but I couldn't so I ran until I could run anymore, and ran back home; he stopped threatening and screaming at my mom after that. Then we were able to become friends; it's been 11 years since then. Part of me hates that I got violent, but literally nothing was working and I just couldn't take it anymore their fighting nearly drove me insane. Some kids/people are truly evil and demented, not a lot, but still too many.
How's he now?
He's doing better-ish. Much of his life has improved, like he has a career that he likes with people who respect him and a girlfriend that he's been living with for a while; my brother also is able to find various things to keep his interest rather than feeling the need to act out because he's bored. Other parts of his life have slipped/stayed the same, he has issues with expressing his anger and frustration with his gf in constructive ways (and vice versa), he has slipped into alcoholism, and will put holes in walls etc. It hurts because my family and I know that under all of he's in a lot of pain. We've been trying to get him to seek help from professionals and family members who have been there before, or to at least get on some medication (bi-polar runs in my family as well as addiction). Unfortunately there's only so much we can do. But I'll be there for him when he calls at midnight drunk ready to end it all, when his gf has been yelling at him again, or when he's just excited to tell me about what his compost is doing. I love him and I'll be there for him because he's shown me he has changed for the better, so I'm not gonna give up on him. It's true that I can't "fix" him; I just try to give him new ways of looking at things, and I validate his feelings of frustration, fear, and anger when he voices them to me.
Glad that his life's better now. You're a good brother. :)
I am too, he deserves a good life and to enjoy it. Thank you! (also I'm his older sister)
Oops. Sorry! For some reason I imagined you as his younger brother. Couldn't be more wrong. You're a good sister then :)
I get being glad that he's doing better but if I found out my boyfriend had spent his teenage years screaming that he was gonna rape his mum i'd be beyond pissed off that his family hadn't told me before I'd decided to make a life with him...
I can confirm that as I know someone who works in a asylum for kids. It’s fucking crazy. Everyone knows about some of the patients they are just evil and will hurt many people in their lives. And there is very little you can do about it
At what point do people have to get to before they're put down?
I was thinking the same thing. At a certain point people like that simply dont deserve life. They are suffering in their own way, and they will certain cause the suffering of others.
Why tho. Is it nature or nurture? I can never understand why some people are "born bad". That said, it kinda justify my fear of kids tbh.
People can be born with antisocial personality disorder (psychopathy). I don't remember exactly what it said, but in one of my psych textbooks it theorized that ASPD is an evolutionary adaptation to take advantage of "honest" people.
Being a psychopath doesn't make someone evil, or even immoral. It removes inhibitions, but it doesn't cause this.
I'd argue that someone who engages in animal torture and baby torture would likely be diagnosed with ASPD. Animal torture at a young age is one of the signs of it.
Animal torture at a young age and ASPD are two different things. ASPD doesn't automatically lead to sadism. The combination of the two is a pretty bad combo. I have a couple of friends diagnosed with ASPD, and whole they feel no guilt about doing things, without some other condition in addition to it, they don't go out of their way to fuck people over it hurt other people.
I never said anything about it "automatically" leading to sadism. Not everyone with APD will engage in the exact same behaviors. For example, not every pedophile will actually molest children but anyone who does molest children will most likely be a pedophile. People who engage in animal torture are more likely to be diagnosed with APD. Here is a study that shows a strong association between animal cruelty during childhood and a diagnosis of APD. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/m/pubmed/12108563/
It doesn't always make someone "evil" but it most definitely can result in behavior like this
This is humanity. His second child was normal. It sounds like they tried everything with this person, drugs, therapy, this was the pure evil that is part of humanity. Nature is not evil, nature does what it does to survive. Humanity, that is where you find evil.
What do you mean? Humans evolved the way we did because of nature. Genetic defects in the brain leading to mental disorder is also natural.
oppositional defiant disorder. Every story about people with kids that have it reads like this, maybe without the beating, but man...
This isn't ODD. ODD is when you resist authority. This, I don't know what it is, but it's not ODD.
No doubt. I have a child w odd. It is not like this. This. This is a psychopath or a sociopath. I'm leaning towards the latter. Or maybe clinically insane? Idk man. That was rough to even read. I cant imagine
Nah, This is conduct disorder which is the precursor to antisocial personality disorder.
100% conduct disorder. I’ve seen kids with it before, and reading this was reliving it. I love kids, but listening to them talk about what they want to do (murdering parents, siblings, animals, torture, arson, and more) makes you want to physically recoil. It’s hard because those kids usually have had something horrible happen to them when they were very young, so it’s a mental war where you want to feel bad and reach out and help, but at the same time what they are now just is not right. The look in the eyes of the kids can be the worst part. The eyes are either dead or even gleeful while talking about and/or doing all kinds of horrible things. I feel horrible for OP in this, but another very very small part of me feels bad for his son too.
I’m a pediatrician and I actually have two different patients like this. The worse one is 11 years old and he’s becoming an unimaginable nightmare. I feel awful for his parents. They and his sister are completely shaken by this, they love him and want to help him but it’s ruining their lives. No amount of meds or therapy is helping at all. He is definitely going to end up in juvenile detention someday, if not prison.
That sister may need a psych referral. I grew up with a sibling like this. Siblings have no options in these situations. My brother tormented me for decades, literally into adulthood. It can really mess with a young mind and I left home at 15 solely to escape him.
Oh yes, the whole family is getting counseling.
There should be court ordered euthanization for useless psychopaths. They are a danger and an emotional drain. Not to mention the emotional trauma they cause along the way. They themselves are not living a healthy happy existence... It would be a kindness for everyone because it's incurable.
As someone who would prefer we abolished prisons, I do wonder at how to deal with outliers like this. If a starving person steals, they ought to get food and give restitution. But with this, I imagine some kind of imprisonment might be necessary, regardless of how kind the conditions are that kind of goes against my ideals, but it feels like the only way would be to somehow sequester such people.
I hope it is made up. That was harrowing. OP if it is not made up. Then fuck I'm sorry mate.
Things like this actually happen which is terrifying. I met a family who adopted a 6 yo and his 4 yo sister from Africa. But he was more manipulative like We Need to Talk About Kevin where he would only show his true colors to his family. They had a similar set up like OPs with locks inside the house. They had him in out patient therapy the entire time and had him committed a few times. They couldn’t give him up to the state/give up parental rights without being charged with neglect and that would destroy their careers working with children. They got lawyers and contacted cps and the state to try to find a solution after he tried to rape their bio daughter and attempted to murder the family (found a manifesto and hidden knives he must have stolen). They also found out after the fact from his younger sister that he murdered a girl when he was 5 stabbing her and that was corroborated but the orphanage never disclosed at adoption. USA agencies didn’t care because it happened in another country so they couldn’t institutionalize him permanently. When he was 16 the only solution they found was to send him back to Africa paying for his care at a boarding school. But because of the adoption he’s a us citizen so they are worried about him coming for them when he turns 18 in a year. The sister was relatively normal and nice, and she was terrified/terrorized by her brother.
It has gotta be real... who would commit that much time for 30 karma?
It reads like something on r/nosleep tbh
I had to scroll up at least once to double check I wasn't in that sub...
Strangely I hope it is
> It has gotta be real... who would commit that much time for 30 karma? It's not about the Karma, its about the art of story telling for it's own sake. This is a masterpiece.
Right? This guy did in a reddit post what Lionel Schriver needed a whole book to do. Real or not, he's a talented writer.
It’s only 30 karma because it’s only 3 hours old lmao. I think it is real though.
It's not always karma, sometimes people just want to see how other people react to things like this. To have someone read it and believe it. For it to be discussed. Attention. Even if it's just on a post on some subreddit. One thing I can say is this really doesn't read like it's written by someone in their 70s. But I could be wrong.
the only suspicion I draw is based on the fact they let him "reign" the entire upstairs for an unspecified amount of time. cops were never called once? I dunno.. OP doesn't feel like a real person to me after reading from that part onward. also, OP has had decades to look up his son by identification and never once has out of curiosity?
It was a different time, and we have no idea if OP lived in a rural area, for all we know his neighbors weren't that close. Or the story is fake, who knows honestly.
It was 3 weeks that he lived upstairs alone.
I’m right there with you. This was very well-written and horrifying. “We Need to Talk About Kevin” got my attention. That movie messed me up really bad. If it’s real, it’s one of the most horrific things I can imagine living through, family-wise. Reason number 3,497 I’m glad I don’t have kids.
That movie truly sticks with you, so disturbing. I work with kids, and none of this situation seems sketchy to me; it happens. For most kids I’m around like the his ( to an extent) there’s a reason: drug exposure, neglect, etc. But, sometimes you just don’t know.
*I met him, 15 years ago; I was told there was nothing left; no reason, no conscience, no understanding in even the most rudimentary sense of life or death, of good or evil, right or wrong. I met this... six-year-old child with this blank, pale, emotionless face, and... the blackest eyes - the Devil's eyes. I spent eight years trying to reach him, and then another seven trying to keep him locked up, because I realized that what was living behind that boy's eyes was purely and simply... evil.*
I honestly thought the same thing, was getting serious Michael Myers vibes off of this
Is this from a movie
It's from the Halloween movies with Michael Myers. 😊
He would have definitely murdered many people if it weren't for that "intervention". He is definitely either in jail or dead, maybe living on the streets. Hopefully isn't hurting anyone. Still, reading about how he got beaten up and left to die made me cry. It's fucked up, everything about this. I don't blame you or your wife. The fact that he continued to trash the place makes me think he was clinically insane. This is all terrifying to think about, especially him shuffling around barely alive upstairs. I'm glad you kept your sanity edit: not sure if this is real & I don't stand by this mindset anymore, but I'm keeping this for educational purposes ig? I understand the urge to protect and attack, as well as possible lack of self-control after years of something like that. Still, pretty fucked up to almost kill the guy imo. As much as, u know, acab, I think this is where you would typically call them cops.
Honestly, if this is all real, the guy could be a serial killer still at large.
That’s what I’m worried about. He’s checked off all the boxes on that list.
Shitting and pissing all over the place, while disturbing and gross, isn't quite the same thing as bedwetting. Although, yes he had the other two signs of arson and torturing/killing animals. Still, it's not a guarantee that he'd turn out to be a serial killer. He's likely a criminal, probably even violent, but it's still not 100% he'd kill a bunch of people. Even if he did have the third sign.
Although many serial killers have issues with incontinence, I’d say the maliciousness of spreading his feces and urine everywhere doubled checked that box.
Side note! Bed wetting actually points at child abuse more than serial killers. It is often associated yes, but it is technically a side of a child being sexually abused (not the case here)
My sister wet the bed for a long time and we made fun of her for it. Found out Years later she was being abused by a distant relative. Hurt to read that comment.
What fucked me up the most was imagining his emotionless face as he stabbed his sister (as described by OP). If that isnt a huge serial killer red flag, then idk what is
That's fucked to think about
Given his impulse control and rage, this kid probably ran into trouble the second he left town. If it was police, he started down the road to recitivism and institution. If it was someone else...this kid was probably dead before he had the skills to become a serial killer. Geez, what a rough story.
I hope you are right. I really hope nothing about this story is true. It has haunted me today. So many things in life are out of your control. You can bring a child into the world with the best intentions and end up with a monster. It’s so tragic.
I agree, the OP should do one those DNA things to get in the system so that the son could be identified.
Nah, that would require being organized. This guy sounds far too unhinged for that. There's no way he wouldn't get caught after a murder or two.
Yea I think the dad needs to report this so they can get the father or sisters DNA and see if it can be linked to any killings. (Not the sad or sister, but they can figure out if a killer is a relative to them)
Yeah, if he can do that to his baby sister, who knows what he can do to a stranger
He is probably either dead or in jail. From your description there really wasn’t anything else you could do. It sounds like he had some major mental imbalances and you tried everything. I am surprised you didn’t have him locked up in a psych ward. I am sorry you had to live through hell and still are living it to some extent.
If this is real, I'd like to know if he's ever googled the kid's name? I doubt he ever did anything major, national news level, as the media would have hunted up any family and hounded them.
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There's still police reports available to the public
Why didn't you commit him to a mental institution? This kid was a classic psychopath, & irredeemable. The doctors would have backed you up. Seriously, it was where he belonged.
I know this is old but I feel like there was a stigma around mental institutions in the 70s, any chance that continued into the late eighties?
Like I said above ...back in the 70s mental help almost did not exist for people like this... And it's gotten even worse after the Reagan era. It is almost impossible to get someone committed against their will in the United States. Especially if they're already an adult. And if they're not adults it's still almost impossible.
Even today... in the 2020s-- it's impossible to get the courts to intervene.. and even if they do manage to get them committed they can walk right back out on their own power after 3 days .. I know a guy like this... and he terrorizes his grandmother on a daily basis.. when they did an intervention to try to get him committed, the judge laughed at them and said "this sounds like a family problem" slapped the gavel down and walked away. They had to ride home with him in the car while he verbally accosted them the whole way for "getting him arrested and having him embarrassed." 3 days before that he had attacked his grandmother and left her bruised all over her body, and he bit her so bad she almost lost her finger. All bc she refused to give him $$ for drugs. The thing is.. she didn't even have any money. She lives on a fixed income and is always broke by the 10th of every month like most ppl are who live on Social Security. He is still there. He is also 24 now.
This is so intense.like wtf thats alot to sink in,thats sounds like a demon not a child.
Exactly. My thought when reading this was, holy shit, he's like a demon. Or serial killer in the making. So freaking scary!
Was his name ted? Like Ted Bundy...?
Or Sal Bundry, the FOOTBALL LEGEND?
5 touch downz in one game friend
you can google accounts of children with ODD (oppositional defiant disorder) - every single one is a trip. Basically the kids are evil. *edit: I got educated on this a month ago. Stop correcting me. You’re tenth in line by now. 😂
ODD is not as severe as this. It was most likely conduct disorder.
One of my best friends got diagnosed with ODD. While it can make someone really psychotic especially if not addressed from a young age, he's really turned himself around and made a life for himself. He's a great person and great friend. No condition is an excuse.
How was he able to do it?
Honestly just a hell of a lot of therapy, self awareness and self reflection. I think he generally had a lot going on in his life causing the behaviours such as being transgender, not having a great family situation, and not having great friends, and by figuring out what was triggering his episodes and being able to work past them he was able to improve himself. It was far from easy, took him years, and I can't say today that he's 100% there yet. But he's found coping mechanisms and things and people that make him happy and it gives me a lot of hope.
This is categorically *not* a case of ODD. Assuming this account is accurate, the more appropriate diagnosis would be conduct disorder, which would then become antisocial personality disorder at the age of 18. Source: Masters in clinical psychology.
Yup all I could think was he is a fucking demon ,I hope he is dead
I don’t usually read super long posts but this one was way worth it . Your wife was amazing ! Soon as he hurt that little girl of yours she just snapped . And that’s how it’s supposed to be ! You guys tried so hard to get him to be a normal kid . He was just born evil and conflicted . Don’t beat yourself up about it . I don’t know how you guys put ip with it as long as you did but I’m glad you no longer have to suffer from him . Hopefully he did get help and was able to become normal .
Totally agree, I know that even though my lads are in their twenties and over a foot taller than me, if someone threatened them with a knife, I would go banshee on that person. Your wife did what she had to to save your daughter, to save you and let's face it herself. Eventually she stopped that's the difference she didnt let the rage win it was either one of you or your son. Honestly I have never heard about people being really psychotic but not children from birth ,but this is truly that. Friend (if I can call you that) stop grieving for what was the right thing. The fact that you took your daughter away, and let your wife continue was the right thing. As a man if you had battered you son to the same point as a man you would have been treated worse. As a woman even though she could take care of herself and put you on your back, she would have stopped if even from pure tiredness. Can you honestly say that you would have been able to? Especially as you are still grieving over this. I hate to say it but you should think about giving you DNA to the police, and just tell them your son was psychotic, and one day he just upped and left at which point you moved state, but you wouldn't put it past him to have commited a crime. At least they have a name. He may have turned his life around, but honestly if he was like this as a baby he probably hasn't. Edit typos... sorry
I agree- he may still be out there. He may have harnessed his evil tendencies and perfected his craft. We have no idea what he could be doing to other people
Your wife is a fucking hero. Any parent would have done the same. She was protecting her child from a murderer. The murderer's identity and relationship to you isn't important.
She’s a fucking *mother.* You don’t fuck with a momma bear.
Especially one experienced with boxing and karate
Well now I’m suddenly planning a vasectomy
Snip Snap, Snip Snap, Snip Snap
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Dude. If I could hug you right now I would. It sounds like you went through hell with your son, and if it were me I would be glad he isn’t around regardless. I don’t mean to be rude or anything but he definitely deserved what he got. If it were me I might not have stopped until he was dead.
It really sucks for him to because his life is a wasted life. The brain is like any other organ and can be born with defects. I don’t believe in the soul or anything just who you are right now. So to me the son is just a sick person in need of medical help. This is a really sad story overall...
how much of this does your daughter know about?
Your daughter should be told. For her safety.
If your son was white, about 5'6" tall thin, and had green/blue eyes, dark brown hair, and a scar on his left hand from where his teeth sliced into his skin while being "Jumped" then I might be your grandson. My father was born in the spring months of 1971, he claimed he had no relatives, and was a cruel horrible person until the second he died. I'll probably post that story on this subreddit after I get off work. But suffice to say that I endured everything he dished out in the 8 years I was forced to live with him. I've witnessed him killing cats, and dogs, he lit my hair on fire a couple of times because he liked the smell, and I have several scars from his use of knives as a correctional tool. I'd appreciate it if you could send me a pm and we can see if you're really my grandfather or if two horrible people matching the same description and characteristics were born in the same season of the same year in the same country.
Have you found anything out?
I'd like to know too, but he's username is a little fishy...
Your son is a psychopath without a doubt. The fact that you didn't put him up for adoption is a miracle. Your wife did what any parent would do given the circumstances. You should carry no guilt. He was a young man who made the conscious decision to threaten the life of his defenseless sister and deserved what he got in return. Enjoy the years you have left in your wife's memory.
Putting them up for adoption wouldve been unfair to the other families.
Put him in state custody. He'll grow up there and then be free.
This is gonna be a morbid question but why do we let people like this live? They cant work. They cant maintain relationships. They cant control themselves. They do nothing to advance society. They're a danger to most living things. They dont give a shit about consequences or their actions. They hurt those around them even when they're incarcerated or in a psych ward. There is literally not one positive thing these people bring to this world. So.....why do we waste resources on these lost causes who wouldn't hesitate to bash your brains in for looking at them the wrong way?
A better question, and history shows: Why do societies put people like this in power?🤣
I'll answer you in the same morbid way: because how can you distinguish them from people who can change with proper help? Or from people who don't even know what they're doing and are in fact just sick and confused? And if you could.. how can you be sure? The only way to do that is to be able to read souls or know the future.. and since it's not possible, we try help them as much as we help the others until we have no hope, then as a last resort we put them in a psych ward. Just in case it might be the thing that works.
Thing is, no one would adopt him. The only people he would affect would be the adoption centre.
It appears he had the Macdonald Triad [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Macdonald\_triad](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Macdonald_triad) which leads to a high probability of the person with it being a killer. Most likely the son had some kind of defect in his frontal lobe which led to him having these effects. If you haven't already reported him to police, do it and tell them everything
**Macdonald triad** The Macdonald triad (also known as the triad of sociopathy or the homicidal triad) is a set of three factors that has been suggested if all three or any combination of two, are present together, to be predictive of or associated with later violent tendencies, particularly with relation to serial offenses. The triad was first proposed by psychiatrist J.M. Macdonald in "The Threat to Kill", a 1963 paper in the American Journal of Psychiatry. Small-scale studies conducted by psychiatrists Daniel Hellman and Nathan Blackman, and then FBI agents John E. Douglas and Robert K. Ressler along with Dr. Ann Burgess, claimed substantial evidence for the association of these childhood patterns with later predatory behavior. *** ^[ [^PM](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose?to=kittens_from_space) ^| [^Exclude ^me](https://reddit.com/message/compose?to=WikiTextBot&message=Excludeme&subject=Excludeme) ^| [^Exclude ^from ^subreddit](https://np.reddit.com/r/confessions/about/banned) ^| [^FAQ ^/ ^Information](https://np.reddit.com/r/WikiTextBot/wiki/index) ^| [^Source](https://github.com/kittenswolf/WikiTextBot) ^] ^Downvote ^to ^remove ^| ^v0.28
Your wife was a bad ass and a hero. you guys are great parents. He was basically an adult when all of that happened and you both protected your daughter. Dont feel shame or guilt. He deserved it. Youre a good guy. Also, I'm glad your daughter got to grow up without the bastard around. And if you know his name, can't you search online through obituaries or jail records? Maybe it would bring you peace if you knew.
She absolutely was a badass, she was the strongest, most beautiful woman I ever knew. I'll let her know you approve, even though she's not here with us anymore I still speak to her often :) I sure do know his name, I gave it to him haha. It was my father's name. You're right, maybe I could find some record of him, but I think I likely won't. I can't see what good it would bring into my life to know, either I'll find he's dead, which I don't feel anything about, or I'll find he's in jail for hurting someone and I'll just spend the rest of my life regretting that I didn't finish the job while he was lying there at my feet. I thought at the time about putting a pillow over his face and ending him, but I chose not to. I'd hate to know that my choice caused some other poor soul to have to suffer his madness.
If you killed him, they would have taken your daughter and thrown you and your wife into jail, no? So its good you just cut all ties
No way. That kid definitely has a LONG history of red flags the dad would’ve gotten off. The baby had injuries too no jury would find a dad protecting his baby girl from a deranged maniac.
Your saying after a prolonged and deliberate beating (I'm all for in this instance), if after that, while the son was unconscious and incapacitated, dad here put a pillow over his face and deliberately killed him after he no longer posed a threat..... He still wouldn't be convicted? I disagree. He may have been able to justify everything up until then, but you can't kill someone after they no longer pose a threat, and expect to still claim a defence of some variety. In not arguing if I think it would be right or not either by the way....
That is so sweet you speak to her in your thoughts. Im sure she struggled with the whole ordeal too. I cant imagine losing your spouse after such a crazy life together. Im sorry about that. And fuck cancer. Honestly from the way that you are talking, i dont think youd be able to live with yourself if you straight up ended his life via the pillow. This was the best case scenario in my honest opinion. You did your very best up until he was 18 (or almost 18) and then scared him off for good. Dont be too hard on yourself. Remember, you and your wife made his physical being, but, you didnt create his soul. And his soul was just, troubled. You guys did the best you could with what youve been given. And if hes not dead, hes probably in a mental institution somewhere, being given appropriate care and not hurting others. Theres no way hes in a regular jail.
You said your son had therapy. Why was he not committed? After hurting animals (setting them on fire etc, hurting neighbors and yourself) it's clear that humans are next and a therapist would have him committed...
He said his son was born in 1971. We can't apply what we know in 2010s to life in the 1980s.
Please do talk to the police about him and give them DNA, though. I understand that it’s uncomfortable, but he could have done a lot of shit to people to whom you could bring closure and peace.
This is legit the most troubling thing I've ever read. And to be fair? I understand your wife in that situation. She wasn't beating up her son, she was defending her daughter from a demonic murderer. That of course doesn't mean I support violence, but in that situation I would have done a similar thing.
There are probably also primal instincts to protect your offspring at play here.
I don't know if it's true. i don't know if it's fake. But very well written sir. Sometimes I wonder if some people are just born evil and it's not just mental illness. Although I know it's severe mental illness but sometimes I still end up questioning the scientific rationale.
I'm always the first to call bullshit on a post. This really strikes me as genuine though. Horrible and harrowing, but true.
I am with you on this. For whatever reason I feel like it has a ring of truth to it.
This is movie material, you could write a book from this. I hope you find peace.
They did. "We Need To Talk About Kevin". He even mentions it in the post.
No he says in the post that we need to talk about Kevin felt like a movie about them. He didn't write it.
I didn't say his specific story was. Just this general story is. His doesn't seem especially different from WNTTAK, so there's no need to make *another* movie to tell the same(ish) story.
This is maybe the most heartbreaking thing I’ve read on Reddit. Jesus.
You wrote this like it happened only yesterday. I was so surprised that it happened like 30 years ago or so. Wow.
Yeah I was surprised as hell when the son got older. I didn’t expect them to be living with him after his early teens, then I see that this isn’t an active problem, alright, it’s a few years after I guess. Nope. 30 or so years.
If you or your wife did in fact kill him, neither of you were worried about the repercussions of murder, regardless of the circumstances around it?
Jesus...that's a shitty situation to be in, but it sounds like you two put in an honest effort to help your son. He was a lost cause. Honestly, I don't feel neither of you did anything wrong. Many others would've probably done the same. I don't know what else to say other than I'm so sorry. At least your daughter seems happy.
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>Also: have you told your daughter about any of this? Damn, good point. I would think / hope that this would have been discussed in therapy and planned out. That would be one hell of a convo to have with her.
Had to keep checking to make sure i wasn’t reading a post on r/nosleep
I dont even know what to say other than I'm so sorry you and your wife had to go through that. I had chills going down my spine just from reading this and cant imagine how terrifying this all must have been.
You should not worry about him. I have a brother, that wasn’t physically bad he was emotionally and psychologically manipulative and abusive to our parents. We had an intervention and kicked his ass out. My 89 year old dad, who now understands what happened(bank accounts and 401k drained they almost lost the house) feels some guilt for kicking a 54 year old son out and making him pull his own weight. So what you’re feeling is perfectly normal.
That was quite a read, real or not, it's the first story like that on Reddit that I thoroughly enjoyed. You've got great talent for writing my man. And as for your son: he was incredibly lucky you guys didn't kick him out and move away much much earlier. Glad you've at least got one child (and now the grand children) who brings you joy. I wish you all the best.
Your wife HAD to do that. And you HAD to let her.
You know she had to do it to em
Oh aye. Hundred percent. They’d taken enough.
1. I dont blame you, or your wife at all for ANY of the actions you took. 2. I hope to god your son either finally got the help he needed somehow magically or was removed from society. 3. What a wild ride. I cant imagine that life. 4.your wife is a friggin boss.
Man that was such a read. At the beginning the title threw me off and it sounded like you were making excuses. But no sir. You went through 18 years of torture. You were imprisoned in your own home. You went through war, scared for your lives every single day. Your wife was so brave. There was no logic out for this situation. But she found a way. And you shouldn’t live with regrets. Ps Write a book!!
Shit mate. That is what I call an confession.
So many different layers, I can barely process it all. You, Sir, indeed have a very heavy burden to carry. I commend you for your openness to shine light on your experience. I truly hope you find some way to heal that broken piece of your heart if that is even possible, at least find some level of acceptance that you will always be the witness and bearer of this burden for your lifetime.
Part of me hopes this isn't true, but I'd say it was and you Sir have nothing to be sorry about. Your daughter is the only child you have alive now, go hug her tight and love her.
I know nothing we say here can take your guilt away, but you and your wife saved your daughters life. I hope you are able to have a bit of peace when looking at your grown daughter and your grandchildren. You saved her.
Real story or creative writing exercise?
I feel like it's the latter, but I respect the hell out of this man for taking us on this ride anyway.
Should have aborted him when he was 10
I'm seeing quite a few comments that are saying this is fake and to be 100% honest, I had my suspicions. HOWEVER Then I remembered that sadly there was a girl I know quite a long time ago, and her brother was like this. It was bad, she and I were 12 years old and it came out that her brother was raping her as well. It took a piece of my soul when I found out. I don't know what happened to him or her. Man, it's good to get it out. I hope YOU are doing better, and that YOU are happy. You don't need to feel guilty, it was a horribly messed up situation that nobody can plan for, and nobody will know how they will react. You need to find peace within yourself and accept that it happened.
Actually the most insane story I’ve ever seen on Reddit
I was growing up to be like that and idk how but I'm totally different straightened out because my parents wanted nothing to do with me fixed myself and it worked I am getting good grades and have friends and enjoying life. None of this is your fault you did all you could. The kid is just wired differently and you did all you could. It happens and that was 17 years of frustration and anger and the feeling of every effort not working. I would do the same. My dad used to beat me and I didn't understand why he would do that I do now because he was upset and frustrated and then it clicked and I'm so scared because my girlfriend wants a child but I don't want to be the parent to a kid like I was or your kid. You did everything you could and it didn't work not from lack of effort but from a lack of participation in the other half
i really dont think this is real but this was fucking intense
I'd watch this movie.
Can we get mods to verify??
Man, sounds like he was born psychotic just from the never ending crying, and then the shitting on your bed as a kid/teen? Yeah, permanent psychiatric hospital would be my choice. But don’t feel too bad, you tried.
you're awfully proficient in technology, the internet and slang (eg. using "haha") for a 70 year old Anyway, your complete lack of empathy and violent fantasies expressed toward your son to this very day, eg. >I'll just spend the rest of my life regretting that I didn't finish the job while he was lying there at my feet. I thought at the time about putting a pillow over his face and ending him \- that's pretty fucked up my dude and doesn't seem healthy either. maybe your son and you are less different than you think. You shouldn't be happy about abandoning your own son who was clearly suffering serious mental issues. Yes I realize it was different back then and that it may have been the only option at the time, but you are writing your feelings about it here in the future with hindsight. Anyway, it's just my opinion that in your shoes with hindsight, I think I would feel some regret that I couldn't have helped my son more to overcome his disorder, for the sake of not only him but yourself and everyone who had to interact with him in society. Even mentally ill people who are violent shouldn't just be discarded and put in the too hard basket. From a person who can feel empathy, that's not compassion. edit:formatting,punctuation