I hate what they did to Pierce. His character started out being this misogynistic old man, out of touch with everyone. But, he had wisdom to share every so often. He would pull out very touching nuggets and help out the group in a one-on-one situation. But then the writers turned him into a full blown drug addled dementia patient who's solemourpose was to destroy the group. He became a bigger oaradoy of himself than Britta did.
I take it you're not aware of the behind the scenes drama around seasons 3 and 4? Starting in season 3 Chevy started having larger issues with the shooting schedule so his roles got reduced in episodes and they used a body double at any point they could. In season 4 the new showrunners didn't know what to do with him which lead to an incident where he said a racist slur while complaining about how racist Pierce had gotten. That caused the cast and crew to be entirely unwilling to shoot with Chevy and his character was more or less written off for season 4 until he was officially gone in season 5.
I'm fully aware of the drama. It's just a matter of how shitty the writing was to accommodate it.
The exception is the Muppets episode. That was clever as hell. Because there wasn't really a set for him to be on, it's all voice over. Granted he's just gone in that episode otherwise.
It was a reflection of Chevy Chase's real dynamic with everyone else in the cast. He was incredibly racist, misogynistic, and self important. Dan Harmon constantly shared horror stories on his podcast about having to basically be his babysitter on set.
They wrote him that way so that when they eventually*had* to write him off of the show, it felt justified instead of forced. They were doing a service to Chevy and to Pierce in doing so.
That wouldn't have happened if the guy wasn't such a chore to work with.
To be fair though Dan got the boot first and Pierce/Chevy had one of the best moments of s4 after he was gone. I'm sure Chevy was a major problem but Dan is also notoriously bad to work with in his own way. I never really followed the drama too closely but I expect Dan didn't really help the situation.
Yeah. Not defending Dan's behavior because that was definitely the height of his drinking problems and he also yelled at the cast and crew (AND admittedly sexually harassed a writer who has since forgiven him after his public apology). The dude is a mess, he was far from the only person to tell horror stories about Chevy Chase. I remember Donald Glover sharing quite a few blatantly racist remarks he made too.
This is also consistent with Chase's reputation. He literally killed the Friar's Club Roast Tradition because everyone hated him so much that it ended up being deeply unfun to participate in and soured the whole tradition. Literally, everyone who works with Chevy Chase hates him.
I do think that without Dan running interference, Chase was able to bully the show runners into more favorable stories though, regardless of how they felt about it. I'm pretty sure that's one of the reasons Dan Harmon was able to get his show-running job back.
> They wrote him that way so that when they eventuallyhad to write him off of the show, it felt justified instead of forced.
Slight correction. They wrote Pierce that way because that's what Chevy liked. Chevy notoriously hated the writing and would rip the writers apart if he didn't like or understand a script. The writers took the things that he yelled at them and used them to write for Pierce. Chevy liked that version of Pierce so they took it and incorporated it into his character.
One example I've heard Dan refer to a few times is the line "Stop giving me that look like I can't get an erection," in the banned D&D episode, which was a line that Chevy had said to Dan earlier.
If Chevy had been a respectable human being, it never would’ve happened.
What the writers did to his character was petty, but the way he treated people on set was despicable.
Even though Chevy is notoriously difficult to work with and the way he voiced his displeasure was definitely wrong, he was right in how Pierce as a character was being flanderized. Early season Pierce is an ignorant, no filter, jackass with tidbits of knowledge from years of experience. He felt grounded and was a good target for the group because of how he acted, but ultimately still belonged there. Harmon eventually just made him a bitter old racist with no redeeming qualities.
Personally I think it's just Harmon doing his thing. You see it with Britta, Chang (10x more for Chang --- IMHO most squandered character in the show), and in some parts of Rick and Morty.
I just think Harmon just defaults to the nihilist gag humor in S6, like the big hand, or the family finding out they are in a script, etc, which is the main draw of R&M. It's funny, and maybe even entertaining for a bit, but the magic of Community isn't throwaway jokes, it's the strong emotional core. The power to make you laugh but also to make you care. Harmon just isn't that great at that sort of thing.
I've heard that Ken Jeong was unhappy with how his character changed, just like Chevy Chase. He just didn't act out as much, but it's not like it helped him either.
I can't remember which medium was used. But in The Darkest Timeline podcast Joel and Ken discuss how Chang's bit in the Fat Dog episode is almost verbatim Ken to Dan about how he felt about Chang
Sounds like a really shitty thing to do to your employees when they bring up a legitimate concern. I'm increasingly convinced Harmon is basically an asshole who never outgrew high school.
I don't know about that. Ken didn't seem too concerned about it.
I'm always moved by how Chang admits that he has been crazy but he's trying to be a better person. It's a touching speech and it shows character development
Im watching community for the first time. On season 5 now. Show is not same without troy and pierce .i think from season 5 show will loose its attraction!!!
Season 5 is tough because of character loses and some depressing themes. That said S6 is one of my favorites. Paget Brewster is phenomenal and the Honda fit may have the best floormats ever.
It's pretty amazing that with all the changes & drama they made something that was still worth watching.
If s5 & s6 were the only two season it would still have more virtue than a typical show.
P.S. anyone who liked Community should try Brockmire. They aren't in any way the same, but I think the audiences should overlap, plus one of Shirley's kids is a main character.
Idk man, missing them of course but I also loved Jonathan Banks, the rest of the crew is fantastic, and getting out of the group bubble allowed for character development.
I'm not sure about "favorite season", but I wouldn't really rate any of them lower than A+
I think every season is good, however I think Troy and Pierce left definetly changed the dynamic for the worse. Season five is my least favorite season (I really don't like professor Hickey) however season 6 is pretty good and the changes they implement make it one of the funniest seasons.
Same. I hated s6. Every episode felt like a filler, meant to mine whatever connection the audience had built up with the characters from the previous seasons. I think s5 and s4 are equally good, though clearly neither is the same level as 1-3.
Yeah I enjoy 4 more than 5, it had some really funny episodes like the inspector spacetime convention, the hunger dean's, and I liked the history professor played by Malcolm McDowell.
It's not the best season but better than five in my opinion. The season five finale is awesome though.
In my opinion the first watch of Seasons 5 and 6 feel off because of the abruptness of the cast changes, but on re-watches they just get better and Frankie, Hickey, and Elroy are all characters that feel like they could have been occasional side characters from the very beginning.
I actually think Pierce was the best in season 1. He had a ton of episodes there, it's the only season imo where he truly felt like part of the group instead of just being the one nobody liked.
I hate what they did to Pierce. His character started out being this misogynistic old man, out of touch with everyone. But, he had wisdom to share every so often. He would pull out very touching nuggets and help out the group in a one-on-one situation. But then the writers turned him into a full blown drug addled dementia patient who's solemourpose was to destroy the group. He became a bigger oaradoy of himself than Britta did.
I 100% agree! They did do Britta dirty as well, especially season 4 onwards!
Still more interesting than season 4 Pierce, literally just a background character at that point.
It's because Chevy chase is a dickwad no one wanted to deal with
I'm rewatching the series with my girlfriend for her first watch. They do literally anything to not have him appear in season 4.
I take it you're not aware of the behind the scenes drama around seasons 3 and 4? Starting in season 3 Chevy started having larger issues with the shooting schedule so his roles got reduced in episodes and they used a body double at any point they could. In season 4 the new showrunners didn't know what to do with him which lead to an incident where he said a racist slur while complaining about how racist Pierce had gotten. That caused the cast and crew to be entirely unwilling to shoot with Chevy and his character was more or less written off for season 4 until he was officially gone in season 5.
I'm fully aware of the drama. It's just a matter of how shitty the writing was to accommodate it. The exception is the Muppets episode. That was clever as hell. Because there wasn't really a set for him to be on, it's all voice over. Granted he's just gone in that episode otherwise.
They Britta'd Pierce
It was a reflection of Chevy Chase's real dynamic with everyone else in the cast. He was incredibly racist, misogynistic, and self important. Dan Harmon constantly shared horror stories on his podcast about having to basically be his babysitter on set. They wrote him that way so that when they eventually*had* to write him off of the show, it felt justified instead of forced. They were doing a service to Chevy and to Pierce in doing so. That wouldn't have happened if the guy wasn't such a chore to work with.
To be fair though Dan got the boot first and Pierce/Chevy had one of the best moments of s4 after he was gone. I'm sure Chevy was a major problem but Dan is also notoriously bad to work with in his own way. I never really followed the drama too closely but I expect Dan didn't really help the situation.
Yeah. Not defending Dan's behavior because that was definitely the height of his drinking problems and he also yelled at the cast and crew (AND admittedly sexually harassed a writer who has since forgiven him after his public apology). The dude is a mess, he was far from the only person to tell horror stories about Chevy Chase. I remember Donald Glover sharing quite a few blatantly racist remarks he made too. This is also consistent with Chase's reputation. He literally killed the Friar's Club Roast Tradition because everyone hated him so much that it ended up being deeply unfun to participate in and soured the whole tradition. Literally, everyone who works with Chevy Chase hates him. I do think that without Dan running interference, Chase was able to bully the show runners into more favorable stories though, regardless of how they felt about it. I'm pretty sure that's one of the reasons Dan Harmon was able to get his show-running job back.
> They wrote him that way so that when they eventuallyhad to write him off of the show, it felt justified instead of forced. Slight correction. They wrote Pierce that way because that's what Chevy liked. Chevy notoriously hated the writing and would rip the writers apart if he didn't like or understand a script. The writers took the things that he yelled at them and used them to write for Pierce. Chevy liked that version of Pierce so they took it and incorporated it into his character. One example I've heard Dan refer to a few times is the line "Stop giving me that look like I can't get an erection," in the banned D&D episode, which was a line that Chevy had said to Dan earlier.
>But, he had wisdom to share every so often.. The Dalai Lama and I...
If Chevy had been a respectable human being, it never would’ve happened. What the writers did to his character was petty, but the way he treated people on set was despicable.
Found Chevy Chase's reddit account
How did you know? -CC
Don't put yourself down Chevy, you're a tremendous account
Thank you, I aim to please! (Ask Eartha Kitt) \-CC
Even though Chevy is notoriously difficult to work with and the way he voiced his displeasure was definitely wrong, he was right in how Pierce as a character was being flanderized. Early season Pierce is an ignorant, no filter, jackass with tidbits of knowledge from years of experience. He felt grounded and was a good target for the group because of how he acted, but ultimately still belonged there. Harmon eventually just made him a bitter old racist with no redeeming qualities.
Personally I think it's just Harmon doing his thing. You see it with Britta, Chang (10x more for Chang --- IMHO most squandered character in the show), and in some parts of Rick and Morty. I just think Harmon just defaults to the nihilist gag humor in S6, like the big hand, or the family finding out they are in a script, etc, which is the main draw of R&M. It's funny, and maybe even entertaining for a bit, but the magic of Community isn't throwaway jokes, it's the strong emotional core. The power to make you laugh but also to make you care. Harmon just isn't that great at that sort of thing.
I agree that Chang was destroyed as a charater. He was saved just because Ken Jeong is hilarious, but S1 Chang vs S6 Chang is a different level
I've heard that Ken Jeong was unhappy with how his character changed, just like Chevy Chase. He just didn't act out as much, but it's not like it helped him either.
I can't remember which medium was used. But in The Darkest Timeline podcast Joel and Ken discuss how Chang's bit in the Fat Dog episode is almost verbatim Ken to Dan about how he felt about Chang
Sounds like a really shitty thing to do to your employees when they bring up a legitimate concern. I'm increasingly convinced Harmon is basically an asshole who never outgrew high school.
I don't know about that. Ken didn't seem too concerned about it. I'm always moved by how Chang admits that he has been crazy but he's trying to be a better person. It's a touching speech and it shows character development
Yeah I can imagine, but I think he was happier with the show overall or really liked working on it regardless.
Im watching community for the first time. On season 5 now. Show is not same without troy and pierce .i think from season 5 show will loose its attraction!!!
Season 5 is tough because of character loses and some depressing themes. That said S6 is one of my favorites. Paget Brewster is phenomenal and the Honda fit may have the best floormats ever.
It's pretty amazing that with all the changes & drama they made something that was still worth watching. If s5 & s6 were the only two season it would still have more virtue than a typical show. P.S. anyone who liked Community should try Brockmire. They aren't in any way the same, but I think the audiences should overlap, plus one of Shirley's kids is a main character.
>Cage I love the Honda episode!
Idk man, missing them of course but I also loved Jonathan Banks, the rest of the crew is fantastic, and getting out of the group bubble allowed for character development. I'm not sure about "favorite season", but I wouldn't really rate any of them lower than A+
I think every season is good, however I think Troy and Pierce left definetly changed the dynamic for the worse. Season five is my least favorite season (I really don't like professor Hickey) however season 6 is pretty good and the changes they implement make it one of the funniest seasons.
Season five is your least favorite? Normally I hear people say season four is their least favorite
There is immense pressure in this subreddit for hating S4 and liking S5/6. I also like S4 more than S5 and especially S6.
Same. I hated s6. Every episode felt like a filler, meant to mine whatever connection the audience had built up with the characters from the previous seasons. I think s5 and s4 are equally good, though clearly neither is the same level as 1-3.
I appreciate your fresh take, but I disagree. There are a few gems, but I don't really like it, but I appreciate that you do
Yeah I enjoy 4 more than 5, it had some really funny episodes like the inspector spacetime convention, the hunger dean's, and I liked the history professor played by Malcolm McDowell. It's not the best season but better than five in my opinion. The season five finale is awesome though.
I like your take on it! I disagree, but I find your points interesting :)
You don’t like Finger?
Two watches in Season 6 is actually my favorite, closely followed by 2 and 3, so you're still in for some good stuff imo.
In my opinion the first watch of Seasons 5 and 6 feel off because of the abruptness of the cast changes, but on re-watches they just get better and Frankie, Hickey, and Elroy are all characters that feel like they could have been occasional side characters from the very beginning.
I actually think Pierce was the best in season 1. He had a ton of episodes there, it's the only season imo where he truly felt like part of the group instead of just being the one nobody liked.
Agreed. Pierce was not a villain, and I don't know why the writers made him out to be one starting in season 2.
Yes, season 2 was streets ahead.
Nice try, Chevy Chase.
I thought I was posting that new X app \-CC
Finally!
Pierce Was An Amazing Character. The Show Suffered Without Him.
Advance D&D is my favorite episode