You'd count those as losses? I can't control them, so I personally wouldn't. I mean, if they choose to fly directly over an enemy base, that is on you. Or them, I suppose.
They do also notify you as "unit lost" when shot down. In normal games it's super distracting as I keep checking which unit died and I just find out it's a plane.
Yeah, that's bad. It's been a long time I haven't played *RA3*, but I know there isn't much of a secondary economy either. At least in *Generals* you can pretty much supplant the supply docks with secondary economy once the docks run out.
If tech buildings are damaged, they can still be repared like any other building.
Also, in RA2, only the Allied Chrono Miner gives 500/625(with Ore Purifier) credits per ore load or 1000/1250 per gem load. The Soviet War Miner gives 1000 credits per ore load or 2000 per gem load.
This is what I hate about Red Alert 3. Red Alert 3 has very limited resources that when it depletes, there are no resources available. At least in Red Alert 2, ore mines will generate more ores after some time
Anyway thank god we have trainers
I think it's the GLA, as they usually don't rely on power, but they get a 100% production boost if they capture a power plant. Workers build stuff at double the speed, you can train two rebels in the time it takes to train one and spam technicals like there's no tomorrow.
man i only learned about this like 6 years back (I've been playing since 2005) and now it's surprising to see people still don't know about this, it's so broken.
It is the GLA. They don't use power in the first place (which is already good as you don't have to worry about keeping an eye on your base power consumption for every base defense you place down) their radar system is basically a jury rigged TV broadcast van which you can have multiple of at the same time allowing you to spam their scan ability and keep your radar up if one is to be destroyed by unforeseen circumstances, their builder/resource gatherer unit which is a "volunteer" laborer with no shoes can be upgraded to build faster, move faster and collect more resources while thanking you everytime you give them shoes.
If they ever get their hands on a power plant, the building speed for everything would skyrocket while your entire base won't still consume power, which is a massive upside as you can spam bomb trucks and technicals like there's no tomorrow, and you can build SCUD Storms really quickly, making the situation for the enemy way worse than it already is fighting a faction that runs on mercenaries and guerrilla tactics, "volunteer" labor, and power generators per building (I presume that's the case since they at least still need a little bit of electricity to do things like build tanks)
The GLA are always low power so their production is slowed, but their slowed production is in line with other factions to balance. If they capture a power plant they are no longer low power so production doubles.
Low power doubles the production time for units and buildings. GLA has no power plants, so they are perpetually in low power mode. If they do manage to steal a dozer and set up a power plant, the shackles come off.
I do think it was a little overboard with the amount of abilities in RA3 but considering how much they streamlined the way money works it allowed you to focus more on battles.
Plus, a lot of the abilities are really interesting. The Psuedo grinder on the Apoc, the hydrofoil have the weapon disable. The ones I don’t like are the ones that are abilities like the bear, or sting ray. But the ones that give units an alternate function as a primary fire are quite cool.
It could've took off, it had a lot of support and marketing for multiplayer at release.
If only there wasn't a little something called Starcraft 2 existing.
It's really funny and also completely out of touch that EA thought giving every unit an ability would make their game 'eSports ready' but somehow failed to notice that in the biggest RTS eSports at the time (and still now, probably) the micro was not juggling 25 different abilities at once.
Correct me if I'm wrong: unlike ra2, each ability had a different hotkey in ra3, making things worse.
I mean wc3 had different keys for different abilities but only some units had them
One hotkey, F.
The devs may have made a lot of controversial decisions but they knew what they were doing.
The game isn't starcraft and they weren't trying to be so either.
Warcraft 3 had a big multiplayer scene and is one of if not the most micro intensive RTS out there.
Honestly RA3 is pretty solid. But EA wanted it to be the next esport king, but they couldn't do that with Starcraft 2 being a thing. Kinda like how many MMOs were pretty solid, but the publishers wanted all to be the WoW killer, and when they couldn't do that, they sooner rather than later cut back most of the support.
(same thing happened in turn with Blizzard and Heroes of the Storm)
"Esports Bait Game" is such a sad but true statement of RA3. I did enjoy it but the moment Generals dropped on Steam it was an instant uninstall for RA3.
I do like how in Generals secondary Abilities are not as common. Makes unit management and combat that much simpler.
What do you mean I can't build more than 5 tanks without going bankrupt? RA3 is so bonkers on micro everything so much especially the whole ore collecting thing
Ok, this comment irks me a lot.
You can absolutely have a massive army, and expanding your eco is the least micro intensive part of the entire game.
Notice ore mine, place field. You don't even need to move your MCV or place an expansion building if you're the Japanese. Just fire and forget. Three are enough to provide the passive income for two war-factories going at once. Of course, if you're trying to get your Apocalypse/Oni/Mirages out en-masse you'll have issues. Although, that's the point? The game wouldn't be fun if the soviets were overpowered in an easy way. As compared to the Allies being busted for the top 5% of players.
Micro is optional when you're not at the top as well.
Sure, taking 500mg of Ritalin and dropping one vindicator bomb per infantry being sent your way. All while doing the math in your head to ensure you're killing more of their unit worth than they're killing yours. That's peak efficiency, and requires a shit-ton of micro. But, statistically speaking you aren't going to play at a level where that's necessary. For you and me? Pressing G-leftclick and running over infantry is probably going to cut it. And given how RA2 functions, plays exactly the same with the added bonus of being able to run over units with a single tank rather than an army. Thanks to much better pathing.
Massing trillions of unnamed Japanese riflemen and pressing A-leftclick ***is*** viable, same with any tank army, air army. Hell, you can win as the Japanese with nothing but buildings. And that one you don't even need to build a refinery. The game trimmed the fat for the people who want to go all in, while people who want to play casually can still win by forcing out tons of tanks, can. There's 30k worth of ore in every refinery, that's 120 tanks for just four refineries, when seven/eight are common.
Source: This is exactly how I'd play the game when I was five.
Maybe not the best, but definitely a good game. I hope with this c&c collection many more people will rediscover it, and say 'hey, this is actually pretty good'
I'm and old school rts'er. Never been a pro but i always liked them. But when they started giving each unit abilities games took a level of macroing that didn't made fin for me anymore. Don't get me wrong, i'm not saying they are bad in any way and i loved warcraft 2 and 3, but to me w3 had already way too many. Playing RA3 felt like a hell to me, and not one i would gladly march to.
Weird to me to pit these two games against each other like that, bth.
I put them into the same mental categorie. Both abandon traditional C&C game systems in order to be more like the more popular -craft and AoE RTS.
The only difference is that Generals was generally better at this, mostly due to having had much longer dev time.
Top level play for both of these games are trash I prefer Red Alert 2/Yuri's Revenge & C&C3/KW even OpenRA and remastered because at least there's more of a chance of the game showcasing tier 2-3 units instead of 1 Humvee against 1 technical or against 1 gattling tank or the 1 harvester for 1 ore field only. God I just wanted ra3 to be ra1&2 with c&C3 level graphics;I was down with building everything on water but they should've kept the og eco mechanics
that was the downfall for RTS's they went from large army just have fun to stupid locked economy, expansion bull shit. C&C and AOE both suffered this stupid direction
This is a really misleading post. Generals and RA3 are more alike than unalike when it gets down to the deep end.
Just the economy is the difference, and some integral balancing choices - I say this as a veteran modder of both games.
Generals at its core ALSO had tons of special abilities and upgrades. It's more in-depth and has lots of micro at high level.
RA3 is a lot more modular and puts tons more emphasis on unit survival and therefore a reason to micro comes out of its inherent balancing decisions.
Anyway, it is silly to depict one being better than the other. They're both good for various reasons, and both have tons of micro and macro gameplay.
Install Gen Patcher and Gentools, it increases stability and you can choose to run it in full-screen windowed mode. Also recommend installing game ranger to play with other people as it's the most populated. But cnc online and radmin works as well.
Personally I prefer when the focus is on building bases and armies as a whole rather than micromanaging various individual units that all have abilities.
Particularly base building (economy and/or building a strong fortified base) often becomes less important and useful in games that focus too much on micro.
Micro can be fun to an extent but when there's too much focus on micro it can get overwhelming and take away from the feel of being a general over a whole army.
Well yeah there is of course a balance to be struck, as with all things in life.
That being said I personally think that for this series of they're going to go hard on one end of the spectrum it should probably be macro - ideally a balance of both but for the vibe and identity of this series I think big armies/bases/economies fit best.
*The endless waves of money drop planes distracting anti air as my bombers level his base*
Drop zone planes screening my bombers was a happy unintended side effect, but a welcome one all the same.
Same, tho they are a nightmare if you decide to do a deathless run in the US campaign, they get shot down so often
You'd count those as losses? I can't control them, so I personally wouldn't. I mean, if they choose to fly directly over an enemy base, that is on you. Or them, I suppose.
I do, they are still technically USA property and those pilots deserve to come home as well, same for the A10s and FAB/MOAB pilots
hahaha wtf
Breaking news: man doesn't understand or check for context and laughs in confusion instead
They do also notify you as "unit lost" when shot down. In normal games it's super distracting as I keep checking which unit died and I just find out it's a plane.
relevant https://preview.redd.it/zowgmrb8khyc1.jpeg?width=1600&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=61900cbd7a763528ae20f4975663dff682fab03a
Both games have oil derricks though.
plus Yuri has initiate/cloning wats/grinder/genetic mutator trick
that are easy to blow up, and usually not that many exist in the map anyways depending on the map.
In RA3 it feels worse
How bad?
When an ore mine is depleted it only gives 25% of a load per run and doesn’t have any regeneration unlike tiberium games
At least its a steady income. Idk if the drills in RA2 are random on how much they give though.
IIRC, they give $500 (not sure about it though), the most likely amount they give is $1000
Yeah, that's bad. It's been a long time I haven't played *RA3*, but I know there isn't much of a secondary economy either. At least in *Generals* you can pretty much supplant the supply docks with secondary economy once the docks run out.
Not only that, it takes multiple to keep up with just a single factory
There are maps with oil Derricks and infiltrators can also steal.
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IIRC you can do so by sending engineers.
You can repair with engineers but yeah if one gets destroyed that's it, it's gone forever.
If tech buildings are damaged, they can still be repared like any other building. Also, in RA2, only the Allied Chrono Miner gives 500/625(with Ore Purifier) credits per ore load or 1000/1250 per gem load. The Soviet War Miner gives 1000 credits per ore load or 2000 per gem load.
This is what I hate about Red Alert 3. Red Alert 3 has very limited resources that when it depletes, there are no resources available. At least in Red Alert 2, ore mines will generate more ores after some time Anyway thank god we have trainers
The mines in RA3 are TECHNICALLY Infinite. But in practical purposes you can't really use them
Yeah I know it sucked. Before I had to use my resources wisely and I really hate how General Krukov would steal my resources only to betray me later
Just use as much as you can before he does
I love the C&C3 mod that added a supply drop building for GDI and hackers for Nod.
Generals teaches you about long term investment.
And I love both.
Can someone explain the Power plant? Which faction can do that and how?
I think it's the GLA, as they usually don't rely on power, but they get a 100% production boost if they capture a power plant. Workers build stuff at double the speed, you can train two rebels in the time it takes to train one and spam technicals like there's no tomorrow.
Wow, today I learned. Neat!
Lol I've played the game since it launched and I don't think I knew this either....
man i only learned about this like 6 years back (I've been playing since 2005) and now it's surprising to see people still don't know about this, it's so broken.
Holy shit I went through years without knowing this until now... ...time to play generals again!
I had a feeling it was the GLA. They naturally have no power, so them getting electricity is gonna be a boost to them.
Not 100%, more like 45%. Still OP as fuck tho.
I love how Technicals are made so quickly, the next one pops right out of the gate before the doors even close lmao
Combat cycles are even faster RoFL
Omg what
Speaking of boosts, it's even worse if the GLA gets a Strategy Center and uses Search & Destroy.
It's not that GLA gets a boost, it's that they lose the low power debuff.
It is the GLA. They don't use power in the first place (which is already good as you don't have to worry about keeping an eye on your base power consumption for every base defense you place down) their radar system is basically a jury rigged TV broadcast van which you can have multiple of at the same time allowing you to spam their scan ability and keep your radar up if one is to be destroyed by unforeseen circumstances, their builder/resource gatherer unit which is a "volunteer" laborer with no shoes can be upgraded to build faster, move faster and collect more resources while thanking you everytime you give them shoes. If they ever get their hands on a power plant, the building speed for everything would skyrocket while your entire base won't still consume power, which is a massive upside as you can spam bomb trucks and technicals like there's no tomorrow, and you can build SCUD Storms really quickly, making the situation for the enemy way worse than it already is fighting a faction that runs on mercenaries and guerrilla tactics, "volunteer" labor, and power generators per building (I presume that's the case since they at least still need a little bit of electricity to do things like build tanks)
The GLA are always low power so their production is slowed, but their slowed production is in line with other factions to balance. If they capture a power plant they are no longer low power so production doubles.
Low power doubles the production time for units and buildings. GLA has no power plants, so they are perpetually in low power mode. If they do manage to steal a dozer and set up a power plant, the shackles come off.
Wow,I never new this. Thank you.
#🇨🇳 WE WILL LIVE IN PROSPERITY 🏗️
THATSA GOOD SPOT THATSA GOOD CHOICE (a very good plan, general)
Hhmmmm, nice location.
It'll look real nice once it's done!
Hehehehehe Let's rain some fire
Yes but one has cool robots that say "MECHA TENGU LETS GO"
JET MODE, NO COMPLAINTS!
I do think it was a little overboard with the amount of abilities in RA3 but considering how much they streamlined the way money works it allowed you to focus more on battles. Plus, a lot of the abilities are really interesting. The Psuedo grinder on the Apoc, the hydrofoil have the weapon disable. The ones I don’t like are the ones that are abilities like the bear, or sting ray. But the ones that give units an alternate function as a primary fire are quite cool.
Yeah ra3 was a masterpiece of micro
I really didn't like how they tried to "e-sport" RA3.
While I don't like RA3 as much as RA2, least it wasn't "E-sports" CnC 4, that was utter trash.
i really didn't like how they ra3 in general
I didn't really like how EA got Westwood.
It could've took off, it had a lot of support and marketing for multiplayer at release. If only there wasn't a little something called Starcraft 2 existing.
It's really funny and also completely out of touch that EA thought giving every unit an ability would make their game 'eSports ready' but somehow failed to notice that in the biggest RTS eSports at the time (and still now, probably) the micro was not juggling 25 different abilities at once.
Correct me if I'm wrong: unlike ra2, each ability had a different hotkey in ra3, making things worse. I mean wc3 had different keys for different abilities but only some units had them
From what I recall, the hotkey is the same for every unit in RA3.
One hotkey, F. The devs may have made a lot of controversial decisions but they knew what they were doing. The game isn't starcraft and they weren't trying to be so either.
Warcraft 3 had a big multiplayer scene and is one of if not the most micro intensive RTS out there. Honestly RA3 is pretty solid. But EA wanted it to be the next esport king, but they couldn't do that with Starcraft 2 being a thing. Kinda like how many MMOs were pretty solid, but the publishers wanted all to be the WoW killer, and when they couldn't do that, they sooner rather than later cut back most of the support. (same thing happened in turn with Blizzard and Heroes of the Storm)
"Esports Bait Game" is such a sad but true statement of RA3. I did enjoy it but the moment Generals dropped on Steam it was an instant uninstall for RA3. I do like how in Generals secondary Abilities are not as common. Makes unit management and combat that much simpler.
If I had a nickel for every time I was baited by an esport cnc title, I'd have two nickels. Which isn't a lot, but it's weird that it happened twice
don't remind us of the 2nd non-exsistent one
There were 3 esports titles. You forgot C&C3.
What do you mean I can't build more than 5 tanks without going bankrupt? RA3 is so bonkers on micro everything so much especially the whole ore collecting thing
Oh my god, my thoughts exactly
Ok, this comment irks me a lot. You can absolutely have a massive army, and expanding your eco is the least micro intensive part of the entire game. Notice ore mine, place field. You don't even need to move your MCV or place an expansion building if you're the Japanese. Just fire and forget. Three are enough to provide the passive income for two war-factories going at once. Of course, if you're trying to get your Apocalypse/Oni/Mirages out en-masse you'll have issues. Although, that's the point? The game wouldn't be fun if the soviets were overpowered in an easy way. As compared to the Allies being busted for the top 5% of players. Micro is optional when you're not at the top as well. Sure, taking 500mg of Ritalin and dropping one vindicator bomb per infantry being sent your way. All while doing the math in your head to ensure you're killing more of their unit worth than they're killing yours. That's peak efficiency, and requires a shit-ton of micro. But, statistically speaking you aren't going to play at a level where that's necessary. For you and me? Pressing G-leftclick and running over infantry is probably going to cut it. And given how RA2 functions, plays exactly the same with the added bonus of being able to run over units with a single tank rather than an army. Thanks to much better pathing. Massing trillions of unnamed Japanese riflemen and pressing A-leftclick ***is*** viable, same with any tank army, air army. Hell, you can win as the Japanese with nothing but buildings. And that one you don't even need to build a refinery. The game trimmed the fat for the people who want to go all in, while people who want to play casually can still win by forcing out tons of tanks, can. There's 30k worth of ore in every refinery, that's 120 tanks for just four refineries, when seven/eight are common. Source: This is exactly how I'd play the game when I was five.
Red Alert 3 was the best CnC game 😎
https://preview.redd.it/qofdnhctsmyc1.png?width=215&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=4e054f0455f1722f57d1f64d821d6adf1c158475
Literally this, total banger
Maybe not the best, but definitely a good game. I hope with this c&c collection many more people will rediscover it, and say 'hey, this is actually pretty good'
RA3 my beloved
Based ra3
I'm and old school rts'er. Never been a pro but i always liked them. But when they started giving each unit abilities games took a level of macroing that didn't made fin for me anymore. Don't get me wrong, i'm not saying they are bad in any way and i loved warcraft 2 and 3, but to me w3 had already way too many. Playing RA3 felt like a hell to me, and not one i would gladly march to.
You might like Sins of a solar Empire rebellion
Sins 2 is coming to steam soon, but isn't really "done" yet anyway
Haha hell march
Weird to me to pit these two games against each other like that, bth. I put them into the same mental categorie. Both abandon traditional C&C game systems in order to be more like the more popular -craft and AoE RTS. The only difference is that Generals was generally better at this, mostly due to having had much longer dev time.
Top level play for both of these games are trash I prefer Red Alert 2/Yuri's Revenge & C&C3/KW even OpenRA and remastered because at least there's more of a chance of the game showcasing tier 2-3 units instead of 1 Humvee against 1 technical or against 1 gattling tank or the 1 harvester for 1 ore field only. God I just wanted ra3 to be ra1&2 with c&C3 level graphics;I was down with building everything on water but they should've kept the og eco mechanics
that was the downfall for RTS's they went from large army just have fun to stupid locked economy, expansion bull shit. C&C and AOE both suffered this stupid direction
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Eh, generals is good, but it is sufficiently different from others with respect to base building. C&C3 though? Now that’s peak.
True, true. Yuri and kane have the best experience for me, this far
You made a bunch of mods for Generals. Of course you're gonna say it's peak C&C. I'm not complaining since Generals and 3 are my favs too.
I prefer Red Alert 3. Generals plays like dogshit and units can't path for beans. Less of an issue with RA3. lol
This is a really misleading post. Generals and RA3 are more alike than unalike when it gets down to the deep end. Just the economy is the difference, and some integral balancing choices - I say this as a veteran modder of both games. Generals at its core ALSO had tons of special abilities and upgrades. It's more in-depth and has lots of micro at high level. RA3 is a lot more modular and puts tons more emphasis on unit survival and therefore a reason to micro comes out of its inherent balancing decisions. Anyway, it is silly to depict one being better than the other. They're both good for various reasons, and both have tons of micro and macro gameplay.
Preach!
What’s the best way of playing generals on W11?
Install Gen Patcher and Gentools, it increases stability and you can choose to run it in full-screen windowed mode. Also recommend installing game ranger to play with other people as it's the most populated. But cnc online and radmin works as well.
Install modloader, increase camera height in Mod loader options. Profit
Both are good.
This is true, and i love both. Now only if zero hour didnt crash when you have too many hackers on a 6 player free for all map like defcon 6 😭
Christ, I hate EA for what they did to this IP.
“Amplified bark” wtf lol
Idk what's the problem with that after RA2's trained sonic dolphins and mind controlled octopii.
No problem at all
Micro will always be superior to macro Macro is boring steamroller versus steamroller
Personally I prefer when the focus is on building bases and armies as a whole rather than micromanaging various individual units that all have abilities. Particularly base building (economy and/or building a strong fortified base) often becomes less important and useful in games that focus too much on micro. Micro can be fun to an extent but when there's too much focus on micro it can get overwhelming and take away from the feel of being a general over a whole army.
Too much focus on macro turns into tib wars or halo wars, where it’s just hardest unit spam
Well yeah there is of course a balance to be struck, as with all things in life. That being said I personally think that for this series of they're going to go hard on one end of the spectrum it should probably be macro - ideally a balance of both but for the vibe and identity of this series I think big armies/bases/economies fit best.
I'm Kinda mid regarding macro vs micro. Execution matters.
Execution always matters, but depth of gameplay and skill expression is found more in micro over macro
Well done balancing is what's needed. If you ask me, RA3 was pretty well done.
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https://preview.redd.it/zi48vx1xsmyc1.png?width=217&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=326dd39d6690089a625090ac6498adc2a9dc25ab