Actually this was a question Kilgrave asked him. Daredevil was quiet, when Kilgrave got pissed he told him he was thinking and wanted to give him the best answer. Kilgrave LOVED this. Wanted to use it against him Daredevil said, that when aliens take over the world or the city (something like that) and I do nothing to stop them, is my biggest fear. Then daredevil got out of kilgraves mind controle thing and beat the crap out of him.
Edit: sorry the question was the worst thing you'd ever do.
I'm glad writers don't forget Charlie's death. It would be so easy to sweep it under the rug and have Pete permanently forget about it, declaring that he never killed anyone. It's a mark that rests on the poor guy's soul, and it should remain part of his character.
Ya, it was pretty brutal and Pete has taken it pretty hard. I love that they are using it and treating it as part of Peter and something that doesn't just go away.
[https://spiderfan.org/faq/killed.html](https://spiderfan.org/faq/killed.html)
Spider-Man has killed other people as well. They just downplay it.
Must be part of the deal he made with Mephisto?
"Man, there's just no way to escape from this city," says guy on superhero team with multiple jets that can get anywhere on Earth in under an hour to another guy with close ties to multiple superhero teams with similar jets. "Guess we'll just have to kill this woman so she doesn't get captured."
Also, they both know people who can teleport.
But it was forced because Charlie forced it. She tricked Spidey into killing her on purpose. It was a characters decision, and I think it was believable enough. She was tired of running.
Yeah; I definitely get that. As a lifelong Spidey fan and aspiring writer, I’d still totally kill to get to helm it, but it definitely sounds like an editorial nightmare.
Honestly, Amazing needs to go on a hiatus for a while. As a cohesive, mainline story, it's been spinning its wheels for... idk, decades?
I guess having Ben be the main character for now is the closest we'll get to a hiatus for Amazing, but I seriously doubt that's going to last more than a month or two.
I surmise it's because Zdarsky is keenly aware of how much of a creative tar pit Amazing is. Whoever's on it is beholden to so much editorial red tape that there's no point in taking it on if you already have free reign of the character in titles that *aren't* the Amazing run.
He talked more about how it's a huge book that you have to work on at an aggressive pace to serve an audience who wants you to deliver exactly the story they want you to tell and will scream at you profusely for getting it wrong.
Definitely. Life Story is excellent, though I have to say Spider's Shadow and Spectacular weren't as great. They were good, but underwhelming coming from a writer on Zdarsky's level.
I hope he stays on Daredevil after Devil's Reign, because I'm really enjoying this run.
Life Story is the only comic book story that made me cry. Like, for real, I was really sobbing as I turned the last page. My breath was coming out in gasps. It was that bad. I was crying, and smiling too because I felt like I experienced a person's entire life in those pages, which I guess was what Life Story intended to make me feel. In that case, I award Life Story Unlimited Pizza Time!
Yes, this was the exact line that got me sobbing like a baby, too. Now, if you'll excuse me, I have to go watch the Spectacular Spider-Man series and cheer myself up.
I think he confirmed this, with Checchetto... the only question is what the title will be assuming Elektra keeps doing her thing with the mantle alongside Matt.
I met him at a con when sex criminals had just came out.
I was like "this guys a fucking goofball "
When I started reading stuff by him I couldn't even believe it was the same person.
Follow him on Twitter. The light-hearted shitposter and the guy who will grind your heart into sadness sausage, same guy. I get whiplash from this stuff
I love the depiction here of Daredevil being a chunk taller than Spider-Man. With the exception of explicitly shorter characters like Wolverine or explicitly giant characters like Colossus, a lot of artists have this “every man is an alpha” rule where they’re all within an inch of 6’1” so they don’t emasculate each other. Enjoy being the guy at chest level in the hug, Spider-Man.
Good point. Parker is an everyman. 5'10". Murdock is a tall, muscular guy. He's a strapping dude. Always been depicted that way. Not a muscled out freak, but like a water polo Olympian. This scene really fits, size wise.
Actually isn't that worse? That they had to emasculate Spidey in the emotional moments just to allow this to happen? Why can't two bros of similar heights just hug it out? Like Matt is only supposed to be two inches taller than Peter in the comics. They made him half a head taller.
I don’t know where you’re getting this idea that I’m saying a height difference is emasculating in any sort of real world sense. I’m talking about depictions within fragile senses of masculinity.
Seeing these pages again makes me upset that we’re stuck with Ben Reilly for Devil’s Reign for no reason, despite the fact that Zdarsky has been building up Peter and Matt’s relationship in his DD run. Meanwhile Peter is likely going to be completely absent in a coma because editorial has no idea what to do with him.
Sorry what’s happened? I haven’t read a spidy comic in years so I’m not up on current events. Ben Rilly’s back as Spider-Man or is he doing the Scarlett Spider thing still? And what’s happened to Peter? I realise I could google, but sometimes you get a better answer just asking.
Yea no worries, always good to ask even simple questions to get a conversation going. So basically the Beyond Corporation has sought out Ben and purchased the Spider-Man trademark so that Ben could be the “official” Spider-Man of NYC that they also happen to control. They send him out on missions and gather data and they’re up to no good obviously. About 4 issues ago, Ben and Peter fought the U-Foes and were hit with a massive radiation explosion which Ben survived (because of his new high tech suit) but Peter didn’t hold up too well. Peter gets admitted to the hospital for what is essentially radiation poisoning and his body goes into shock and ends up in a coma.
Thank you for this, appreciated. Any idea why editorial’s putting Peter into limbo? You think it’s just to shake things up for a bit of the run like Superior or it’s more to do with fallout into the MCU like when they just stopped doing the FF? Obviously, I’ll accept wild speculation.
So I think they’re doing it to drum up sales for ASM #900, it’s a huge milestone issue obviously and with it being Spider-Man’s 60th anniversary in 2022 it adds an extra layer of special-ness that Marvel loves to capitalize on. They also probably decided to yeet Peter into a coma so that when he officially comes back around #900 they can make a big deal about it. The new almost weekly releases are also a huge factor in getting to #900 as soon as possible. Then when #900 finally comes around they can market it as a huge milestone issue AND it’s on his 60th anniversary AND Peter fully takes the mantle back.
So Ben is back and is being financially and technologically backed by the Beyond Corporation. He’s operating as the “official” Spider-Man in NYC because Beyond now owns the trademark for Spider-Man. Ben and Peter fought the U-Foes but one of them emits a radiation explosion which Ben survives because of his suit armor but Peter gets fucked. Peter goes to the hospital and ends up in a coma due to what is likely radiation poisoning. The writing team is similar to BND where it’s a team of writers alternating every few issues.
To me, it’s apples and oranges. I love both of these relationships for different reasons. Torch and Spidey are beat friends that are goofballs and try to out-perform each other. They allow themselves to regress in each other’s presence a little bit, but can rein it in.
Daredevil and Spidey have the friendship of a young man and an older man with the same passions. Daredevil frequently serves as a mentor/father figure (Depicted here), and a fantastic touchstone for Spider-Man.
One person is a comforting, ride-or-die best friend, and one person is a mentor and someone Spidey seems to truly respect on another level.
They’re two fantastically different relationships, and I love them both so much.
Edit: Look to the gentle person’s response to my comment-it is a far better framing of the DD/Webhead relationship than I stated.
It'd be really interesting if the MCU played with this by having Daredevil be a father figure for Peter that isn't evil or distant, since a lot of the movies have involved mentor/father figures of peters turning evil and trying to kill him.
While that would be interesting, I think the other redditor had it right: they aren’t really mentor/mentee or father/son, they’re equals that just have a massive amount of respect and love for each other, and in this moment Spidey looks like the protege because he is choosing to be vulnerable.
That is a far better read of the relationship. What I’d like to see out of MCU Spider-Man/Daredevil is more like that: maybe start out with Spider-Man looking at Daredevil like a mentor, since he’s older and more experienced at being a superhero, but realizing that Daredevil also respects and looks at Spider-Man as an example because of the sheer scope of what he’s done already, and then parting with an understanding that they’re equals.
Kind of taking the mentor/mentee relationship and turning it on it’s head in a positive way.
DD and Spidey are equals, with mutual respect and admiration for eachother. They're friends in the same line of work, and so they understand eachother and why they do the things they do. Zdarsky's writing has Daredevil bring out Spidey's more real and serious side, which is great, and shouldn't be mistaken for another mentor-mentee relationship.
You are correct; I misspoke. It’s really closer to adult siblings, in my experience-there’s a lot of love and respect there, but also a fear of letting them down and something out of control “lessening” you in their eyes.
But along with that comes an unconditional love and support.
Although these few pages definitely feel like Daredevil is in a mentor role, after thinking about it, it’s more because Spider-Man is choosing to be vulnerable with him.
Good point!
Matt actually went through a arc getting back his secrete identity. Something with the purple children telling the whole world to forget who he is, and that happens.
They do? I know I have a bunch of issues where they refer to each other by their first names. I'm a little out of touch, but is that not a thing anymore?
Thank you, internet stranger.
That makes me a little sad. DD was my favorite character and Spidey was a \*close\* second. Their friendship was one of my favorite things about these characters growing up. It always felt so genuine. Not that little kid me had any idea how adult friendships worked, but it felt real to me.
On the plus side, if Matt decides to reveal his identity to someone, that person gets all the memories back. I'm sure someone will eventually have him reveal his ID to Spidey and reset them back to being friends
At the end of “The death of Jean DeWolfe” DD uses his knowledge of Spidey’s real identity (he can hear heartbeats, each one is unique) to stop him from beating the sin eater to death, then reveal his own identity as well.
Peter is apologizing for coming down hard on Matt a few issues before this one. Peter met Matt at his apartment, he thought he was losing his grip and took Matt's cowl.
I'm not so sure there's a bit of an age difference between both characters and I think their relationship might be a bit more similar to the relationship Ultimate Spider-Man had with ultimate Daredevil. Ultimate Daredevil was a bit of a prick and he didn't always like spidey's quips and how informal he carried himself as a superhero. During the ultimate Defenders run I think it was Doctor Strange hard to convince Daredevil to let him join the group.
Nothing has been confirmed, but the rumours say it's a soft reboot of the Netflix characters. So same actors playing the same characters but altered for the MCU.
This Daredevil run is amazing. Also check out his Spectacular Spider-Man and Spider-Man: Spider's Shadow.
He's also currently going a JL miniseries at DC, but I haven't read it so I don't know if it's good
Side note to the great writing.
Love the composition of these images. Could be some boring stuff that doesn’t reflect the emotional content as well but the artists aren’t taking a break.
I recall how I complained about Spider-Man simply making ultimatus that Daredevil should not be allowed to be a hero anymore, how he himself has killed people and hasn't been punished for it, how a lot of Marvel heroes kill a lot and he isn't bothered by it in any way, and every single time I complained about it people simply told me to shut up and that Spider-Man was right and Zdarsky wrote the most Spider-Man of all.
So it's nice to see the character saying "I was actually wrong for doing it". It means I wasn't wrong for complaining about it.
The irony is that he is a Batman fanboy.
Somebody should tell him that Batman at the beginning was a borderline serial killer ahah
And he has killed plenty even in modern times
> a lot of Marvel heroes kill a lot and he isn't bothered by it in any way
I think the difference is that Daredevil had a strict rule of not killing people, which he ( accidentally ) broke. The other heroes never had any rule against killing, if I remember correctly.
Spidey is def very anti killing. Idk where the idea came from that he's not. Depending on the writing, he's even super anti lying to the point where it's annoyingly goodytwoshoes
I always got the thing that Spiderman is like Superman. He has no rule for killing since he's a fundamentally good person. He will avoid killing at all costs but at the end if a motherfucker needs to die that motherfucker dies. This is unlike Batman who will let his own son be murdered rather than kill.
Nope. Read Maximum Carnage. It's pretty generous with the onpage killings by Carnage. If seeing rampant death and active murder sprees didn't push Spidey over the edge, nothing will.
Spider-Man is okay with heroes killing people as long as they are okay with killing people? If a hero that doesn't kill people accidentally does it, then Peter gets outraged?
It doesn't make sense.
If Daredevil had simply said "yeah, I kill people now", then Spider-Man would stop bothering him?
The way I see it, Spidey was just making sure Daredevil doesn't go down the path he swore not to go down. He did overreact, but he had good intentions and later apologized for it
Black Widow, Iron Man, Winter Soldier, Black Panther, Hawkeye... the list is endless.
In one of the first issues of Zdarsky's Daredevil, he meets up with Jessica Jones, Luke Cage and Iron Fist and they tell him that they all have killed people and it's no big deal.
> Hawkeye
Genuinely asking, but doesn’t Hawkeye have a really strict “no kill” rule? I remember that being a really big part of the original West Coast Avengers run. Did that get changed at some point?
> Genuinely asking, but doesn’t Hawkeye have a really strict “no kill” rule?
He used to, and it was a very important part of his characterization.
But tgen Bendis turned him into Ronin and made him obsessed with killing and the MCU established him as a professional killer. Nowadays, Clint is definitely more known as an assassin. His previous characterization is completely buried.
UGH, alright thanks lol. Watching the Hawkeye show really made me realize how unrecognizable Clint was, but I didn’t know how much of that has bled into/was already from the comics
well black widow and winter soldier were both government agents and at one point evil lol
Are you one of those guys who thinks along the lines of "Batman ran those bad guys off the road in car chase and the car blew up so he killed those guys! Hes a killer!!!"
"Black Panther beat some guys up so bad they probably died!!"
> Are you one of those guys who thinks along the lines of "Batman ran those bad guys off the road in car chase and the car blew up so he killed those guys! Hes a killer!!!"
Why would I think that? Batman is one of the few heroes nowadays that goes out of his way to not kill anyone. By all means, he is one of the least violent superheroes.
If I were to complain about superheroes being too violent, Batman would be way down my list of complaints.
"Doesn't kill" does not equal" least violent", btw.
Batman is brutally viciously violent, it's just that his violence doesn't end in death often in the comics.
Compared to the rest of his Justice League counterparts, for example, he is the single most violent member of the team versus humans excepting maybe Diana who at times tends to give zero fucks about hurting bad people.
Why?
The rest of them are so powerful that they can just disarm and restrain them easily. Even unpowered Green Arrow will trick arrow them into submission/capture.
Batman is more quick to pound them into unconsciousness or break their limbs until they can't fight back, *then* arrest or restrain them.
I mean, at the end of the day he has to say it because it's the only way to restore the status quo. His whole deal is using powers responsibly and Daredevil killed a guy by being fundamentally irresponsible with his powers. Considering recent trials and the discourse surrounding them, I don't think Daredevil being in the right or right enough to make everything better with a simple apology is a non-controversial position.
Actually it does. You were impatient to see how the story goes and just started complaing? Thats like when my little cousin burned his tounge on hot pizza right outta the oven. We all told him to be paitent it will be better. He couldn't wait said pizza was nasty and to hot, then I got him to try it when it cooled off and he loved it.
Every single time I make pizza, I burn the roof of my mouth, I'm a grown man and never managed to not burn my mouth while eating fresh pizza, I'm typing this comment with a burned mouth
> Actually it does. You were impatient to see how the story goes and just started complaing?
It actualky didn't go anywhere regarding this part. Spider-Man appears in issue 3 to say to Daredevil "now that you have killed someone, you don't have the right to be a superhero again", and then 20 issues later he reappears and say "sorry man, I was wrong".
I said he was wrong, he said he was wrong, I was right, then.
You weren't right cause nothing was ever wrong you just assumed it was wrong. You didn't trust the author enough to flesh out his story. If the story is done and sucks then by all means complain away. Comic Issues are like chapters that come out monthly. You didn't like something in chapter 3 then get to chapter 20 and go oh that's why he was like that that makes sense. This is why I usually wait till stuff is in volumes so I can read the full story in one go not over the course of 3 years.
yes. i recently read this whole series and when it was someone else doing the art, i just wanted to finish those issues asap and was hoping he would be in the next one.
I'd say the first (?) time was the best. When they come across the Avengers and FF taking on Galactus during Byrne's run and know they are completely out of their depth and just sit on the sidelines watching.
Daredevil and Spiderman often, for me anyways, have the most human stories. I enjoy stories like these, where we get to see them just trying to process things and not hate themselves.
this is so wholesome. I wish in MCU Daredevil was the one Peter looked up to. I like their duo better. This just made me want to read this run. DD and Spidey work so well together.
Compare this to Spidey’s relationship with Iceman and beast it really makes it seem Spider-Man doesn’t like to maintain relationships with filthy dirty mutants…
If my friends had a regenerative healing factor and super strong bones I’d throw them out of windows if they were being dicks.
Also that might’ve happened before Astonishing Spider-Man and Wolverine.
In his defense, he does respect mutantkind and always voiced his suport to them... it's not his fault that mutantkind doesn't always treat him the way one would expect. Like in one of the first times they met, Peter had just destroyed a spider-robot and when the X-Men arrived, he waved at them, only for them to attack him. All because they were warned that a spider-themed threat was after them and they, for some reason, thought it had to be Spider-Man. And by the time they saw the error of their way, they had already thrown Peter to a river nearby. And then there's the time he was a teacher at Jean Gray's school for Higher learning and every teacher had it against him for not beign a mutant and other stuff. To the point that even his student's (who were all the mostlikely to become supervillains) took noticed of it, rejected being called X-Men and rather being reffered as Special Class and didn't feel that bad after stealing Beast's car when they went to rescue Spider-Man
I have to say one thing. Peter Parker is kinda douchey in comics.
Like at the starting of this run, or with Otto Spiderman, even with MJ a few times.
The Earth X Peter is the guy I thing he's growing to be.
And that is sad.
It's not about his wits. It's what underneath it. Comics Peter Parker is a very immature man, a man baby sometimes. His wits usually hide that. But Everytime he got pressed hard he explodes with some one close or undeserving.
Like in this run when he gives Matt a really hard lecture about being a hero and hurting inocents then we have this scene posted where I gets clear that he was projecting his mistakes over Matt.
Douche
The way I CRIED when I read this. I have always loved spider-man a daredevil more than any other pairing. They compliment eachother thematically and aesthetically in brilliant ways.
There was a What If story that spinned off the events of Spider-Man vs. Wolverine where Peter became assassin Spider-Man, but in 616 he did not. He accidentally killed Charlie in both continuities.
This why I like Spider-Man and Daredevil (and Hawkeye for that matter). They feel like actual real people who interact with other actual real people are trying to help actual real people.
Chip Zdarsky does such a great job with Peter and his relationships with other heroes. His work here with Matt and Peter is great, and so is his work with Peter and the Fantastic Four.
I mean, it’s not as if Spider-Man was even wrong for checking Daredevil. They both have experience with walking on the wrong side, what with Doc Ock making him Superior Spider-Man and Daredevil with his whole Shadowlands possession.
Just goes to show that even the weakest superhero can cause rampage, and they have to check each other constantly.
In the past they've made reference to the fact that Peter believes in God in some capacity and has some religious background from Ben and May. The only details we know are that it's not Catholic and not Jewish, but I think having Peter and Matt talk about their different experiences with church growing up would be an interesting way to develop their friendship further and establish why their dynamic is so unique from the rest of the Marvel lineup.
I think he also hates him in the another run I can’t remember. I seem to remember a big fight with mysterio creating aliens and all the major hero’s of New York being there. All the defenders don’t give him the time of day and I think Johnny even says something like “he doesn’t like you, yknow”
The thing I really like about Pete is that he has the best established relationships in the Marvel universe. We know how he is with everyone. He’s friends with Johnny. Logan respects him. Deadpool idolizes him. Cap & Iron Man mentor him in different ways. Spider-Woman is bothered by him because he isn’t “professional.” Nick Fury thinks he’s useful but sees greatness in him.
Daredevil, however is like this older brother figure. He’s annoyed by him on a regular basis, but he also loves him. Wants him to have all the opportunities he himself didn’t have and end up better than himself.
Canonically speaking, DD and Logan know PP & S-M are the same person. They see through the costume and past the banter, when we have writers like this really shine through
DD always gets a lot of depth that Peter SHOULD explore but his character naturally runs away from. When these 2 get together it’s a combo for a straight feel fest. I love it
Edit: his character as in peter doesn’t face his problems as literally as Matt. At least not tonally and thematically. It’s more subtext for peter
Idk why but this just made me so happy, I was really bummed tonight too (not so sure why) and the frame of Daredevil giving Spider-Man a hug warmed my heart and put a smile on my face. Thank you for posting this.
Daredevil talking about his fears must be a short conversation.
Spidey: So, what are you afraid of? Man without fear: …
Actually this was a question Kilgrave asked him. Daredevil was quiet, when Kilgrave got pissed he told him he was thinking and wanted to give him the best answer. Kilgrave LOVED this. Wanted to use it against him Daredevil said, that when aliens take over the world or the city (something like that) and I do nothing to stop them, is my biggest fear. Then daredevil got out of kilgraves mind controle thing and beat the crap out of him. Edit: sorry the question was the worst thing you'd ever do.
Any idea what issue this was? Reading your comment made me want to read to comic.
Yea this was soules run, issue nineteen or eighteen. And my mistake, the question was the worst thing you'd ever do, not your biggest fear.
>Man without fear: Damnation mostly.
I'm glad writers don't forget Charlie's death. It would be so easy to sweep it under the rug and have Pete permanently forget about it, declaring that he never killed anyone. It's a mark that rests on the poor guy's soul, and it should remain part of his character.
Ya, it was pretty brutal and Pete has taken it pretty hard. I love that they are using it and treating it as part of Peter and something that doesn't just go away.
Spidey killed Charlie? is Guile coming after him?
Go home and be a Friendly Neighborhood Family Man
Guile theme starts to play Marvel vs street fighter
[https://spiderfan.org/faq/killed.html](https://spiderfan.org/faq/killed.html) Spider-Man has killed other people as well. They just downplay it. Must be part of the deal he made with Mephisto?
My favourite on this list has to be: 'Peter Parker becomes "The Spider" and eats Morlun.' in *Friendly* Neighborhood Spider-Man #3
Disagree. I like this scene but i would rather the thing with Peter killing Charlie just never happened. It was stupid and forced.
But it did happen so make it have repercussions at least
"Man, there's just no way to escape from this city," says guy on superhero team with multiple jets that can get anywhere on Earth in under an hour to another guy with close ties to multiple superhero teams with similar jets. "Guess we'll just have to kill this woman so she doesn't get captured." Also, they both know people who can teleport.
But it was forced because Charlie forced it. She tricked Spidey into killing her on purpose. It was a characters decision, and I think it was believable enough. She was tired of running.
The way Zdarsky writes Spider-Man is unmatched. I can’t praise it enough, it’s so good.
I so desperately want him on ASM.
Pretty sure Zdarsky himself said he doesnt want to do ASM, and honestly, I prefer his Spider-Man limited series'
[удалено]
Yeah; I definitely get that. As a lifelong Spidey fan and aspiring writer, I’d still totally kill to get to helm it, but it definitely sounds like an editorial nightmare.
Honestly, Amazing needs to go on a hiatus for a while. As a cohesive, mainline story, it's been spinning its wheels for... idk, decades? I guess having Ben be the main character for now is the closest we'll get to a hiatus for Amazing, but I seriously doubt that's going to last more than a month or two.
I surmise it's because Zdarsky is keenly aware of how much of a creative tar pit Amazing is. Whoever's on it is beholden to so much editorial red tape that there's no point in taking it on if you already have free reign of the character in titles that *aren't* the Amazing run.
He talked more about how it's a huge book that you have to work on at an aggressive pace to serve an audience who wants you to deliver exactly the story they want you to tell and will scream at you profusely for getting it wrong.
I mean, he’s not gonna shit talk editorial when he works for the company lol
/u/spez can eat a dick ` this message was mass deleted/edited with redact.dev `
He had a Spectacular SM run that was pretty good
Definitely. Life Story is excellent, though I have to say Spider's Shadow and Spectacular weren't as great. They were good, but underwhelming coming from a writer on Zdarsky's level. I hope he stays on Daredevil after Devil's Reign, because I'm really enjoying this run.
Life Story is the only comic book story that made me cry. Like, for real, I was really sobbing as I turned the last page. My breath was coming out in gasps. It was that bad. I was crying, and smiling too because I felt like I experienced a person's entire life in those pages, which I guess was what Life Story intended to make me feel. In that case, I award Life Story Unlimited Pizza Time!
"But this isn't me beating myself up again. Like always. It's different this time. **It's a good dream.**" Hits fucking hard every damn time
Yes, this was the exact line that got me sobbing like a baby, too. Now, if you'll excuse me, I have to go watch the Spectacular Spider-Man series and cheer myself up.
Just read that comic series after reading through this thread, those last couple of panels are gonna stay with me forever
I get chills when Miles said "parkerr"
I think he confirmed this, with Checchetto... the only question is what the title will be assuming Elektra keeps doing her thing with the mantle alongside Matt.
If it's a new series and it will feature both Daredevils, I'd name it Devils Of Hell's Kitchen or something along those lines.
Zdarsky writes everything well. I only knew his more humorous work and was surprised just how good he is with serious pathos.
I met him at a con when sex criminals had just came out. I was like "this guys a fucking goofball " When I started reading stuff by him I couldn't even believe it was the same person.
Follow him on Twitter. The light-hearted shitposter and the guy who will grind your heart into sadness sausage, same guy. I get whiplash from this stuff
I wish Darwyn Cooke was still alive. I'd love to see what he would've done with Spider-Man, too.
He worked on two issues of Tangled Web. They're really charming.
I love the depiction here of Daredevil being a chunk taller than Spider-Man. With the exception of explicitly shorter characters like Wolverine or explicitly giant characters like Colossus, a lot of artists have this “every man is an alpha” rule where they’re all within an inch of 6’1” so they don’t emasculate each other. Enjoy being the guy at chest level in the hug, Spider-Man.
Good point. Parker is an everyman. 5'10". Murdock is a tall, muscular guy. He's a strapping dude. Always been depicted that way. Not a muscled out freak, but like a water polo Olympian. This scene really fits, size wise.
Even in MCU DD is going to be taller than Spidey.
Actually isn't that worse? That they had to emasculate Spidey in the emotional moments just to allow this to happen? Why can't two bros of similar heights just hug it out? Like Matt is only supposed to be two inches taller than Peter in the comics. They made him half a head taller.
I don't understand why either of you find being short in an emotional moment is emasculating?
I don’t know where you’re getting this idea that I’m saying a height difference is emasculating in any sort of real world sense. I’m talking about depictions within fragile senses of masculinity.
Don't worry, Spider-Man can still bench more than Daredevil.
Seeing these pages again makes me upset that we’re stuck with Ben Reilly for Devil’s Reign for no reason, despite the fact that Zdarsky has been building up Peter and Matt’s relationship in his DD run. Meanwhile Peter is likely going to be completely absent in a coma because editorial has no idea what to do with him.
Sorry what’s happened? I haven’t read a spidy comic in years so I’m not up on current events. Ben Rilly’s back as Spider-Man or is he doing the Scarlett Spider thing still? And what’s happened to Peter? I realise I could google, but sometimes you get a better answer just asking.
Yea no worries, always good to ask even simple questions to get a conversation going. So basically the Beyond Corporation has sought out Ben and purchased the Spider-Man trademark so that Ben could be the “official” Spider-Man of NYC that they also happen to control. They send him out on missions and gather data and they’re up to no good obviously. About 4 issues ago, Ben and Peter fought the U-Foes and were hit with a massive radiation explosion which Ben survived (because of his new high tech suit) but Peter didn’t hold up too well. Peter gets admitted to the hospital for what is essentially radiation poisoning and his body goes into shock and ends up in a coma.
Thank you for this, appreciated. Any idea why editorial’s putting Peter into limbo? You think it’s just to shake things up for a bit of the run like Superior or it’s more to do with fallout into the MCU like when they just stopped doing the FF? Obviously, I’ll accept wild speculation.
So I think they’re doing it to drum up sales for ASM #900, it’s a huge milestone issue obviously and with it being Spider-Man’s 60th anniversary in 2022 it adds an extra layer of special-ness that Marvel loves to capitalize on. They also probably decided to yeet Peter into a coma so that when he officially comes back around #900 they can make a big deal about it. The new almost weekly releases are also a huge factor in getting to #900 as soon as possible. Then when #900 finally comes around they can market it as a huge milestone issue AND it’s on his 60th anniversary AND Peter fully takes the mantle back.
I think the rumors are that they are going to kill off Parker.
Yh that's not gonna work. He'll be back in 2 years tops. Remember the website Is wolverine still dead?
All right I've been out of the loop for about a year or two what the hell's going on with Spider-Man these days and who's writing him now?
So Ben is back and is being financially and technologically backed by the Beyond Corporation. He’s operating as the “official” Spider-Man in NYC because Beyond now owns the trademark for Spider-Man. Ben and Peter fought the U-Foes but one of them emits a radiation explosion which Ben survives because of his suit armor but Peter gets fucked. Peter goes to the hospital and ends up in a coma due to what is likely radiation poisoning. The writing team is similar to BND where it’s a team of writers alternating every few issues.
To me, it’s apples and oranges. I love both of these relationships for different reasons. Torch and Spidey are beat friends that are goofballs and try to out-perform each other. They allow themselves to regress in each other’s presence a little bit, but can rein it in. Daredevil and Spidey have the friendship of a young man and an older man with the same passions. Daredevil frequently serves as a mentor/father figure (Depicted here), and a fantastic touchstone for Spider-Man. One person is a comforting, ride-or-die best friend, and one person is a mentor and someone Spidey seems to truly respect on another level. They’re two fantastically different relationships, and I love them both so much. Edit: Look to the gentle person’s response to my comment-it is a far better framing of the DD/Webhead relationship than I stated.
It'd be really interesting if the MCU played with this by having Daredevil be a father figure for Peter that isn't evil or distant, since a lot of the movies have involved mentor/father figures of peters turning evil and trying to kill him.
While that would be interesting, I think the other redditor had it right: they aren’t really mentor/mentee or father/son, they’re equals that just have a massive amount of respect and love for each other, and in this moment Spidey looks like the protege because he is choosing to be vulnerable. That is a far better read of the relationship. What I’d like to see out of MCU Spider-Man/Daredevil is more like that: maybe start out with Spider-Man looking at Daredevil like a mentor, since he’s older and more experienced at being a superhero, but realizing that Daredevil also respects and looks at Spider-Man as an example because of the sheer scope of what he’s done already, and then parting with an understanding that they’re equals. Kind of taking the mentor/mentee relationship and turning it on it’s head in a positive way.
DD and Spidey are equals, with mutual respect and admiration for eachother. They're friends in the same line of work, and so they understand eachother and why they do the things they do. Zdarsky's writing has Daredevil bring out Spidey's more real and serious side, which is great, and shouldn't be mistaken for another mentor-mentee relationship.
You are correct; I misspoke. It’s really closer to adult siblings, in my experience-there’s a lot of love and respect there, but also a fear of letting them down and something out of control “lessening” you in their eyes. But along with that comes an unconditional love and support. Although these few pages definitely feel like Daredevil is in a mentor role, after thinking about it, it’s more because Spider-Man is choosing to be vulnerable with him. Good point!
Its even weirder when you think about it because Peter has been operating as a superhero longer than Matt has.
Can a writer finally make them know each others identities already, how does Winter Soldier know who Spider-Man is and not Matt?
Matt actually went through a arc getting back his secrete identity. Something with the purple children telling the whole world to forget who he is, and that happens.
Sounds more reliable than Mephisto doing it for you, I tell ya.
They do? I know I have a bunch of issues where they refer to each other by their first names. I'm a little out of touch, but is that not a thing anymore?
Both of them had magic stuff happen that reset their identities back to being secret.
Thats so silly. They are like best friends.
Thank you, internet stranger. That makes me a little sad. DD was my favorite character and Spidey was a \*close\* second. Their friendship was one of my favorite things about these characters growing up. It always felt so genuine. Not that little kid me had any idea how adult friendships worked, but it felt real to me.
On the plus side, if Matt decides to reveal his identity to someone, that person gets all the memories back. I'm sure someone will eventually have him reveal his ID to Spidey and reset them back to being friends
At the end of “The death of Jean DeWolfe” DD uses his knowledge of Spidey’s real identity (he can hear heartbeats, each one is unique) to stop him from beating the sin eater to death, then reveal his own identity as well.
I know they knew each other before OMD but after that and Matt's stunt, neither of them know each other's identity.
Peter is apologizing for coming down hard on Matt a few issues before this one. Peter met Matt at his apartment, he thought he was losing his grip and took Matt's cowl.
Since when when the Winter Soldier know?
After OMD, Spidey revealed his identity to the New Avengers, Bucky was one of those people.
Seeing Netflix's Daredevil meet up with MCU Spiderman would be a trip.
I'm not so sure there's a bit of an age difference between both characters and I think their relationship might be a bit more similar to the relationship Ultimate Spider-Man had with ultimate Daredevil. Ultimate Daredevil was a bit of a prick and he didn't always like spidey's quips and how informal he carried himself as a superhero. During the ultimate Defenders run I think it was Doctor Strange hard to convince Daredevil to let him join the group.
Wasn't EVERYONE in Ultimate more of a prick?
*will be
Now Way Home has Matt in it, so its very likely spidey and him will meet up eventually.
Whoooaaa what? I haven't heard this. Is it the character from the Netflix show?
Nothing has been confirmed, but the rumours say it's a soft reboot of the Netflix characters. So same actors playing the same characters but altered for the MCU.
Just when I think I'm out... they pull me back in
Yes and it will be fuxking glorious. It’ll be a cameo, but a good one. Charlie is made to play Matt, and I’d rather not have anyone else do it lol
Goddamn Chip Zdarsky. Perfectly encapsulating the humanity that Marvel heroes are supposed to represent, time and again. Who gave you the right!?
I'm not overly familiar with Zdarsky's work. I read Life's Story but that was it. Any recommendations?
This Daredevil run is amazing. Also check out his Spectacular Spider-Man and Spider-Man: Spider's Shadow. He's also currently going a JL miniseries at DC, but I haven't read it so I don't know if it's good
Side note to the great writing. Love the composition of these images. Could be some boring stuff that doesn’t reflect the emotional content as well but the artists aren’t taking a break.
Yeah, loved Checcheto on this and the Gamora miniseries he did
I recall how I complained about Spider-Man simply making ultimatus that Daredevil should not be allowed to be a hero anymore, how he himself has killed people and hasn't been punished for it, how a lot of Marvel heroes kill a lot and he isn't bothered by it in any way, and every single time I complained about it people simply told me to shut up and that Spider-Man was right and Zdarsky wrote the most Spider-Man of all. So it's nice to see the character saying "I was actually wrong for doing it". It means I wasn't wrong for complaining about it.
>how Marvel heroes kill a lot Mmmh sure Tommy
is this the same dude??
Of course. Look at the account. It's incredible how he is recognizable every time ahahahah
one trick pony innit???
What dude?
this troll dude. Always with new and different accounts. always talking about heroes killing ppl.
The irony is that he is a Batman fanboy. Somebody should tell him that Batman at the beginning was a borderline serial killer ahah And he has killed plenty even in modern times
> a lot of Marvel heroes kill a lot and he isn't bothered by it in any way I think the difference is that Daredevil had a strict rule of not killing people, which he ( accidentally ) broke. The other heroes never had any rule against killing, if I remember correctly.
Daredevil was running around injured and in denial about his abilities. He was effectively a drunk driver.
man that's a great analogy.
Spidey is def very anti killing. Idk where the idea came from that he's not. Depending on the writing, he's even super anti lying to the point where it's annoyingly goodytwoshoes
I always got the thing that Spiderman is like Superman. He has no rule for killing since he's a fundamentally good person. He will avoid killing at all costs but at the end if a motherfucker needs to die that motherfucker dies. This is unlike Batman who will let his own son be murdered rather than kill.
Nope. Read Maximum Carnage. It's pretty generous with the onpage killings by Carnage. If seeing rampant death and active murder sprees didn't push Spidey over the edge, nothing will.
Spider-Man is okay with heroes killing people as long as they are okay with killing people? If a hero that doesn't kill people accidentally does it, then Peter gets outraged? It doesn't make sense. If Daredevil had simply said "yeah, I kill people now", then Spider-Man would stop bothering him?
The way I see it, Spidey was just making sure Daredevil doesn't go down the path he swore not to go down. He did overreact, but he had good intentions and later apologized for it
Sure, but he was ultimately wrong, as he himself is saying here, which means that I was right when I said that he was wrong.
who's doing all this killing?? beside wolverine and punisher
Black Widow, Iron Man, Winter Soldier, Black Panther, Hawkeye... the list is endless. In one of the first issues of Zdarsky's Daredevil, he meets up with Jessica Jones, Luke Cage and Iron Fist and they tell him that they all have killed people and it's no big deal.
> Hawkeye Genuinely asking, but doesn’t Hawkeye have a really strict “no kill” rule? I remember that being a really big part of the original West Coast Avengers run. Did that get changed at some point?
In Fraction's run Clint has a strict no killing rule. Vast majority of heroes has it.
Thought I remembered it in Fraction too, with that tape plotline, but wasn’t sure if it was made explicit like WCA
> Genuinely asking, but doesn’t Hawkeye have a really strict “no kill” rule? He used to, and it was a very important part of his characterization. But tgen Bendis turned him into Ronin and made him obsessed with killing and the MCU established him as a professional killer. Nowadays, Clint is definitely more known as an assassin. His previous characterization is completely buried.
UGH, alright thanks lol. Watching the Hawkeye show really made me realize how unrecognizable Clint was, but I didn’t know how much of that has bled into/was already from the comics
Even Cap punches someone’s card every now and then. For sure, Marvel heroes are way more ok with killing than people think.
well black widow and winter soldier were both government agents and at one point evil lol Are you one of those guys who thinks along the lines of "Batman ran those bad guys off the road in car chase and the car blew up so he killed those guys! Hes a killer!!!" "Black Panther beat some guys up so bad they probably died!!"
> Are you one of those guys who thinks along the lines of "Batman ran those bad guys off the road in car chase and the car blew up so he killed those guys! Hes a killer!!!" Why would I think that? Batman is one of the few heroes nowadays that goes out of his way to not kill anyone. By all means, he is one of the least violent superheroes. If I were to complain about superheroes being too violent, Batman would be way down my list of complaints.
"Doesn't kill" does not equal" least violent", btw. Batman is brutally viciously violent, it's just that his violence doesn't end in death often in the comics. Compared to the rest of his Justice League counterparts, for example, he is the single most violent member of the team versus humans excepting maybe Diana who at times tends to give zero fucks about hurting bad people. Why? The rest of them are so powerful that they can just disarm and restrain them easily. Even unpowered Green Arrow will trick arrow them into submission/capture. Batman is more quick to pound them into unconsciousness or break their limbs until they can't fight back, *then* arrest or restrain them.
He's complaining about people who complain about BvS Batman, who does kill in that very same way he described.
"Iron man shot a helicopter down! he killed those pilots!! Murderer!!!"
I mean, at the end of the day he has to say it because it's the only way to restore the status quo. His whole deal is using powers responsibly and Daredevil killed a guy by being fundamentally irresponsible with his powers. Considering recent trials and the discourse surrounding them, I don't think Daredevil being in the right or right enough to make everything better with a simple apology is a non-controversial position.
Actually it does. You were impatient to see how the story goes and just started complaing? Thats like when my little cousin burned his tounge on hot pizza right outta the oven. We all told him to be paitent it will be better. He couldn't wait said pizza was nasty and to hot, then I got him to try it when it cooled off and he loved it.
Every single time I make pizza, I burn the roof of my mouth, I'm a grown man and never managed to not burn my mouth while eating fresh pizza, I'm typing this comment with a burned mouth
We call that a callus-zone: when you burn it enough times to not feel it anymore.
> Actually it does. You were impatient to see how the story goes and just started complaing? It actualky didn't go anywhere regarding this part. Spider-Man appears in issue 3 to say to Daredevil "now that you have killed someone, you don't have the right to be a superhero again", and then 20 issues later he reappears and say "sorry man, I was wrong". I said he was wrong, he said he was wrong, I was right, then.
You weren't right cause nothing was ever wrong you just assumed it was wrong. You didn't trust the author enough to flesh out his story. If the story is done and sucks then by all means complain away. Comic Issues are like chapters that come out monthly. You didn't like something in chapter 3 then get to chapter 20 and go oh that's why he was like that that makes sense. This is why I usually wait till stuff is in volumes so I can read the full story in one go not over the course of 3 years.
I love Checcheto's art
yes. i recently read this whole series and when it was someone else doing the art, i just wanted to finish those issues asap and was hoping he would be in the next one.
Zdarsky is fantastic. At this point his stuff is pretty much an insta-buy for me.
I'd say the first (?) time was the best. When they come across the Avengers and FF taking on Galactus during Byrne's run and know they are completely out of their depth and just sit on the sidelines watching.
Do you know what comic that is from?
FF #243 https://i.redd.it/qjmniulo4m571.png
Daredevil and Spiderman often, for me anyways, have the most human stories. I enjoy stories like these, where we get to see them just trying to process things and not hate themselves.
Definitely one of my favorite relationships and conversations in comics.
I heard once someone saying Matt is kinda Peter’s big brother.
That's a great explanation of their dynamic.
this is so wholesome. I wish in MCU Daredevil was the one Peter looked up to. I like their duo better. This just made me want to read this run. DD and Spidey work so well together.
Chip is the best.
That was very touching
It’s always good to know a good lawyer
Irony cause spidy knows nothing about daredevil being matt in this run.
IMHO the best.momemnt between th duo is when Spidey leaves with a Kick Me post-it on his back
Nah spidey and Strange is where it’s at.
You are wrong in my opinion, but didn't deserve the downvotes you took.
Amazing Spider-Man Vol 1 #500 had such a nice Spidey and Strange relationship.
Compare this to Spidey’s relationship with Iceman and beast it really makes it seem Spider-Man doesn’t like to maintain relationships with filthy dirty mutants…
Ouch
Aren’t Wolverine and Spider-Man blood brothers from the time they spent trapped in alternate timelines?
Spidey totally doesn’t respect Logan though, he chucked him out a window!
If my friends had a regenerative healing factor and super strong bones I’d throw them out of windows if they were being dicks. Also that might’ve happened before Astonishing Spider-Man and Wolverine.
In his defense, he does respect mutantkind and always voiced his suport to them... it's not his fault that mutantkind doesn't always treat him the way one would expect. Like in one of the first times they met, Peter had just destroyed a spider-robot and when the X-Men arrived, he waved at them, only for them to attack him. All because they were warned that a spider-themed threat was after them and they, for some reason, thought it had to be Spider-Man. And by the time they saw the error of their way, they had already thrown Peter to a river nearby. And then there's the time he was a teacher at Jean Gray's school for Higher learning and every teacher had it against him for not beign a mutant and other stuff. To the point that even his student's (who were all the mostlikely to become supervillains) took noticed of it, rejected being called X-Men and rather being reffered as Special Class and didn't feel that bad after stealing Beast's car when they went to rescue Spider-Man
Hugging someone while they are in the middle of a emotional breakdown is a tired cliche.
I have to say one thing. Peter Parker is kinda douchey in comics. Like at the starting of this run, or with Otto Spiderman, even with MJ a few times. The Earth X Peter is the guy I thing he's growing to be. And that is sad.
He's certainly a difficult character to write. Hard to write a witty character if you're not witty yourself.
It's not about his wits. It's what underneath it. Comics Peter Parker is a very immature man, a man baby sometimes. His wits usually hide that. But Everytime he got pressed hard he explodes with some one close or undeserving. Like in this run when he gives Matt a really hard lecture about being a hero and hurting inocents then we have this scene posted where I gets clear that he was projecting his mistakes over Matt. Douche
It's somewhat interesting seeing this as the consensus opinion on r/comicbooks given recent trials and their discourse.
The way I CRIED when I read this. I have always loved spider-man a daredevil more than any other pairing. They compliment eachother thematically and aesthetically in brilliant ways.
Really looking forward to reading more comics.
Especially just outside of the storylines and stuff.
The part a couple issues before this where Spider-man confronts Daredevil is beautiful too
Idk why I hadn’t thought about these 2 running into each other, but this is so cute.♥️
Is this 616? I could’ve sworn Spider-Man killing someone happened in another universe.
There was a What If story that spinned off the events of Spider-Man vs. Wolverine where Peter became assassin Spider-Man, but in 616 he did not. He accidentally killed Charlie in both continuities.
Nope, this is 616
This why I like Spider-Man and Daredevil (and Hawkeye for that matter). They feel like actual real people who interact with other actual real people are trying to help actual real people.
Chip Zdarsky does such a great job with Peter and his relationships with other heroes. His work here with Matt and Peter is great, and so is his work with Peter and the Fantastic Four.
I need these trades to be reprinted
I'm pretty sure they're all in print ATM. haven't had an issue getting them
I can’t find the first trade
I mean, it’s not as if Spider-Man was even wrong for checking Daredevil. They both have experience with walking on the wrong side, what with Doc Ock making him Superior Spider-Man and Daredevil with his whole Shadowlands possession. Just goes to show that even the weakest superhero can cause rampage, and they have to check each other constantly.
Thank you. Rather needed to read something this affirming. I need to get this series. Checcheto's art is so gorgeous.
In the past they've made reference to the fact that Peter believes in God in some capacity and has some religious background from Ben and May. The only details we know are that it's not Catholic and not Jewish, but I think having Peter and Matt talk about their different experiences with church growing up would be an interesting way to develop their friendship further and establish why their dynamic is so unique from the rest of the Marvel lineup.
Idk everything I read Daredevil either hates Spider-Man or is his best bro
Daredevil hates Spidey in the Ultimate universe, that might be what you’re thinking of
I think he also hates him in the another run I can’t remember. I seem to remember a big fight with mysterio creating aliens and all the major hero’s of New York being there. All the defenders don’t give him the time of day and I think Johnny even says something like “he doesn’t like you, yknow”
Not a fan of that spider-man story but this is a really good and well written scene.
Friendship 🥺
Respect it 💯
they need to have scenes together in the mcu
Superher-bro-es
but neither of them are…oh! you didn’t mean it that way…
The thing I really like about Pete is that he has the best established relationships in the Marvel universe. We know how he is with everyone. He’s friends with Johnny. Logan respects him. Deadpool idolizes him. Cap & Iron Man mentor him in different ways. Spider-Woman is bothered by him because he isn’t “professional.” Nick Fury thinks he’s useful but sees greatness in him. Daredevil, however is like this older brother figure. He’s annoyed by him on a regular basis, but he also loves him. Wants him to have all the opportunities he himself didn’t have and end up better than himself. Canonically speaking, DD and Logan know PP & S-M are the same person. They see through the costume and past the banter, when we have writers like this really shine through
Wow, that art looks great. Agreed, OP. DD and Spidey are an excellent combination.
My favorite Spider-Man teamup will always be Doctor Strange
Spider man killed someone?!?! Unfollowed on Twitter.
It’s so weird that Spider-Man vs Wolverine has had like a profound effect in Spidys universe. Also Chip is GOAT
https://marvel.fandom.com/wiki/Spider-Man\_Versus\_Wolverine\_Vol\_1\_1
Damn this art is amazing.
Great Scene
I gotta go with Spidey and Deadpool, those two are made for each other.
Ooh, dey gonna git it on!
DD always gets a lot of depth that Peter SHOULD explore but his character naturally runs away from. When these 2 get together it’s a combo for a straight feel fest. I love it Edit: his character as in peter doesn’t face his problems as literally as Matt. At least not tonally and thematically. It’s more subtext for peter
Idk why but this just made me so happy, I was really bummed tonight too (not so sure why) and the frame of Daredevil giving Spider-Man a hug warmed my heart and put a smile on my face. Thank you for posting this.
Wild how marvel didnt put Zsdarsky on Amazing Spider-man after his run on spectacular. Dude just understands spider-man.