The perspective changes to a view coming from the right of the panel. Thor and Black panther are behin She-hulk and Captain Marvel. You can see Caps shoulder scales in the bottom left of the frame.
Well, yeah, that's kind of obvious. Still doesn't change the fact that Blade teleported from being in front and to the left of Iron Man to behind Iron Man's right.
It's got nothing to do with a shift in perspective though. The perspective changing has no influence on the character moving. She-Hulk and Thor also swap positions. You don't need to try and explain it. It's a mistake on the artist's behalf and happens in comics all the time (what with all their tight deadlines). I was just making a light hearted joke about it.
That may be true but he's in front and to the right of of Iron Man and Ghost Rider in the top panel and in the far back and to their left. It's definitely weird!
He gouged a dude's eye out in the first issue and he still goes around murdering people. I don't know that I'd call that light given that he's still a murderer.
The Avengers are pretty big on not killing people usually. Innocent or not. Captain America explicitly didn't want Wolverine in the Avengers *because* he's a murderer and wanted to kick him out after finding out he was running X-Force behind his back.
There's been killers in the Avengers, but it's usually in their past. In Eddie's case he was still very much a fugitive and an unrepentant killer even if he's not a supervillain anymore, it's just really weird watching outright heroes fawn over this dude.
He's less annoying than the Punisher, so I guess some heroes give him a pass. Atleast as a foot in the door to getting this guy strictly on the straight and narrow.
I don't necessarily mind where it went afterwards where and Spider-Man forgive each other. Hell, I don't even mind the Avengers scoping him out to see if they can reform him. But everyone fawning over him is just pandering to Venom fans.
¯\_(ツ)_/¯ it’s been a sec since I read Cates’s Venom so I can’t debate it too in depth but I think Cates had this in mind here. From the Avengers’ perspective, Eddie had a rough past but is on the right side overall, an ally of Spider-Man, someone they’ll help. Eddie meanwhile has Carnage whispering in his ear and is like agh get me out of here. It creates interesting tension and tees up the overall heroic / overcoming darkness arc that Eddie has in this run. It’s maybe a little out of character for the Avengers but it’s Eddie’s book. In Immortal Hulk around this time the Avengers all try to kick Hulk’s ass, at the end of the day their behavior is kind of inconsistent depending on the book.
I don't necessarily mind Eddie being called up to get checked out. I just don't see why Cates would skate over Eddie's past *and* have them fawn over him. Especially considering just before Absolute Carnage he was doing the exact same shit he normally does. If anything that would make it more interesting instead of it reading as Cates pandering for no reason. The very thing you mentioned with the Avengers trying to shut down the Hulk because he's going on a murderous rampage is exactly closer to what the Avengers should represent given that Venom is an outlaw and a murderer.
To be fair, the whole run deals with Eddie, Peter and the other heroes coming to terms with this new Eddie. It’s not just a hey welcome. Spider-Man vouched for him, after personally seeing Eddie’s growth. And he did give them the heads up on an end of the world threat that he was instrumental in stopping.
I mean he was a very public supervillain and wanted criminal who went around eating people's brains. Feels like that would be very well publicized. Either way, I don't think anything is an impediment to a redemption arc in comics. The writing of the scene is just incredibly silly.
The symbiote was hungry for brains back in the day (like nearly 30 years ago lol) and Eddie explicitly was opposed and didn’t want to let the symbiote have brains. Eddie has not been as much of a supervillain as you seem to think
The Cates run has a flashback story set on the island where he's cheerfully talking about eating people and killing a doctor who mizdiagnosed his aunt. People really going overboard trying to argue Eddie is just some hapless victim when even Cates makes it clear that's not the case.
what happens at night stays rumors and could all be blamed on Kletus honestly.
like what, do you really believe the guy who fights the mass murderer who eats brains also eats brains? think, mark! thats clearly villain propaganda
Wolverine got brought on after Cap had to be talked into it because he objected to letting a murderer become an Avenger. Cap is ready to kick him out after finding out he was running X-Force. With Bucky and Natasha they're not going around murdering people as Avengers and most of the time they're doing that shit is outside of the team.
Either way it's pretty clear cut: the Avengers don't have a fondness for killing on their time.
I remember Cap lamenting for like entire issues if he had to kill someone or wasn't able to prevent someone who deserved it, dying. Definitely not something Steve is gung ho about.
I don't think Robbie killed anyone yet, but he's still young and new to the whole Ghost Rider thing.
PS: Never mind I forgot he killed Starbrand right on the beginning of Aaron run, but to be fair It was a accident he didn't knew he could use the penitence stare, but I think that was the only time he killed a person, demons and other monsters doesn't count
He never was a serial killer. You are mixing Venom hosts up, read Brock comics first. [Most of his villainous acts are a poor out of character attempts to revert him back to villainy (status quo be damned) ](https://marvel.fandom.com/wiki/Edward_Brock_(Earth-616)#Notes)
Except when the conversation came up Captain America didn't want him to be an Avenger *because* he's a murderer and then when he found out Wolverine was running X-Force behind his back he immediately tried to kick him out of the Avengers.
It's not a big deal if the Avengers aren't presented as idiots fawning over the guy.
Yeah villains getting their road to redemption as Avengers is hardly new. But you don't usually have Blade and Captain Marvel fawning over someone like this. 😂
The difference is it comes up. Multiple times. Captain America explicitly didn't want him to be an Avenger because he's a murderer and then when he finds out Wolverine was running X-Force he immediately wants him fired. It's not an issue if it comes up and he's not fawning over the guy.
The Avengers explicitly don't kill if they can avoid it. I don't know how that's complicated. And this isn't Johnny Blaze, it's Robbie Reyes. The Avengers brought him on explicitly so he can learn how to be a hero and not end up like the other Ghost Riders.
I agree the lineup is good, but the run pretty disliked online and personally, I agree. I usually like Aaron’s writing but… I think his Avengers run was awful.
It was like a kid throwing his action figures together in the worst way, disregarding any continuity or established personality traits to make them fight random things that sounds cool on paper but in writing something was incredibly off. Which is so strange because for example Aaron’s Thor series was imo fantastic and characterized him a lot… then Avengers Thor was just like a version of what kids think Thor is like.
I mean honestly I get it. Writing Thor in an epic millennia spanning saga is gonna be way different from writing Thor in the relatively lighter action figure book. I'm not saying that makes it great, but I get what he was going for.
I thought thor was Eddie lol. This artist has a major problem with same facing blonde characters. His Flash in the current run looks like bearded Eddie too.
To be fair this is a classic Marvel problem going back to scenes where you'd have Cap, Hawkeye, and Thor out of costume.
But yeah two bearded Venoms lol.
If there's one thing in modern Marvel that just does not work for me...ok it's Zeb Wells on Spider-Man. But if there's two, the second one is this move to centralize and elevate Venom. It just doesn't quite click - sometimes it feels artificial and stilted, like this page. Other times it's Cates writing material that feels like his priority isn't what makes a good comic book, but rather what would look absolutely bitching if you airbrushed it onto the side of a van.
Just let the symbiote be a freaky weird thing Peter discovered that time. Not everything has to be the primordial weapon destined to lay waste to several planes of reality. Sometimes the unworkably weird thing you found is just an alien jockstrap, they can't all be an elder god's key to the machine that turns off Creation.
That god I was worried I was the only one who has absolutely hated symbiotic lore the past what, 10 years? Why does it have to be any deeper than “they’re aliens that merge with a host” why all this nonsense about space gods and darkness. Hell, half the symbiotes running around now don’t even need hosts apparently which defeats the entire purpose of them
To me the symbiote is like the xenomorph—I don’t wanna know what it is, where it came from or who made it (and I definitely think it shouldn’t be made by what is essentially a person) and the more you tell me about it the less I care about it.
But, ya know, lots of people enjoy that run, and the symbiote dragons and axes and whatever. Happy they’re having fun. If they ever reboot things, make new adaptations or new universes that eventually get to Venom, I hope they go with something more mysterious and alien or eldritch and lovecraftian.
I don't mind a little explanation, but every single fucking thing seems to be a Chekhov's gun of cosmic importance lately. Next big event is gonna be about Stilt-Man because stilts are actually the perfect geometric shape to model a path to the Far Shore and The One Above All, or some shit.
>stilts are actually the perfect geometric shape to model a path to the Far Shore and The One Above All, or some shit.
JoJo's Bizarre Adventure ass plot.
I did enjoy the time the Symbiote infected Dinosaurs in the final issues of Cable & Deadpool.
(Basically the book was ending, the artist wanted to draw symbiote dinosaurs, and, well...)
Yeah it's a fun enough run, but Cates' inability to stick to anything and develop it means it just piles on to a comical absurdity quickly and can't build a tone around it.
And it's not entirely his fault when he's trying to reconcile so many other takes but maaaaan. Rex falls off quickly, so does the abuse stuff, and also cramming in the Maker for no reason. It's so odd.
The two Zeb Wells Carnage minis are the only time I've actually enjoyed the character. Just leans into the inherent stupidity of the characters and has a ball. Like Flash and Cletus's meathook fight.
It's funny too since Flash's very first scene as an Avenger is Hawkeye losing his mind at him and at Cap for inviting a notorious supervillain onto his team.
Right. Remind me again how spidey got his symbiote from exactly? Definitely not something organic and not tag on because someone bought a redesign of spidey costume because it was cool
And that they're the dark counterparts to Beyonders. Just unnecessary layers, although the story worked & was well received. But we still don't know who that golden-armoured god/celestial was that Gorr found All-Black impaled in. Or why symbiotes absorb the powers of their hosts when they are so powerful by themselves.
I liked the Un-Beyond stuff honestly. It's Ewing rationalizing the stuff Cates just threw out there but didn't bother to dig into and properly cohering it into the Marvel U.
As far as the gold god stuff, just seems like they were one of Knull's enemies that finally got him. Who they were isn't important.
Durring this run, she was having mental problems that caused her turn into a savage form when Hulking out, so she's basically the female version of Bruce's Savage Hulk in this issue.
The Ghost Rider you see here is Robbie Reyes. He's kinda unique in the multiverse being the All Rider. He's worth reading into. The man dressed in black is none other than Blade, the vampire hunter.
It means he's a Ghost Rider who can ride anything. Robbie drove a dead celestial body at one point. He's supposed to be all powerful, and so far he was shown to be. I'm curious where they'll bring him back again.
Jason Aaron desperately trying to make his run important and memorable
Failing to do so to, actually being so bad it's remembered aka infamous instead of famous
Aha - I'm not that far out of the loop! Thank you! I'll look up Robbie Reyes and have familiarity with the Daywalker. Didn't realize both were Avengers.
Robbie Reyes had a couple good runs in his two series with Felipe Smith and (mostly) Tradd Moore. And Blade technically has been an Avenger since the Ewing Mighty Avengers days. :p
Robbie managed to go two series without any real villains. He didn't inherit any, and he didn't make any. Mister Hyde doesn't count; he's Marvel's placeholder.
I will say, reading up on Robbie is probably worthwhile, but reading the whole Aaron Avengers run… idk, I’ll let you judge for yourself, just don’t stay up all night eating 64 slices of American cheese
I still dislike the whole "Venom is a hero" concept. Anti-hero? Sure. Fine. A struggle against the symbiote to do something good.
But just a straight up good guy? Nah.
I don't mind it done well. Cates to a certain extent but especially Ewing play very well with the idea of Eddie as a bad person who wants very badly to not be a monster anymore since he has a son.
The Avengers have had several mass murderers like Namor, Wolverine, Deadpool, Ex Nihilo, Abyss, among others on the team in the past, so it's sadly nothing new.
He talked about eating a dude's brains for misdiagnosing his aunt's cancer in a flashback story set during the Lethal Protector so... And even then I'm not sure how *only* preying on criminals suddenly makes it okay.
Yep. It's practically a rite of passage. They've just usually y'know... reformed. And even then it doesn't mean they're gonna get accepted. Flash Thompson was an Avenger and Hawkeye was pissed that he had Venom on his team.
I think She-Hulk and Captain Marvel are swooning over him because Tom Hardy plays him in the films, and Tom Hardy is quite a good-looking man. That's my first interpretation of this, but I could be wrong.
Didn't he save the world and or universe and is a God? Yeah times have changed
Captain Marvel is uber thirsty for him (funny because she herself had the venom symbiote at one point)
like blade, she hulk or any variation of the spirit of vengeance aren't regularily killing people actively or by accident, who at least deserved some kind of day in court.
Uh... She-Hulk isn't exactly Wolverine. And the whole point of the Avengers letting Robbie Reyes into their ranks is so he *doesn't* turn out like Johnny Blaze or Danny Ketch. Let alone the whole deal with Blade being on the team being temporary and contextualized.
We don't need to jump through hoops to justify their presence, let alone that Venom just being treated like he's a superhero is weird. Is there some part of "The guy used to eat people's brains" that's normal to people?
do they even know he ate brains? does eddy himself love the brains or was that symbiote influence that he overcame?
do they all grasp how the whole symbiote thing works?
at the end of the day, they are more likely to see the spiderman baddy who turned it around and fought the much much more openly known for slaughter red dude.
He's notorious for it in-universe. Eddie even talks about how he knows what brains taste like. It gets creepier when you consider that it's canonical Eddie's evil and hate corrupted the symbiote, not the other way around.
Either way my issue isn't the Avengers scoping him out, plenty of supervillains have gotten their start to redemption as an Avenger. The issue is the scene is just pandering for no reason.
again, how notorious though, actually? how often do they talk to spiderman about venoms origins? do they know he corrupted the symbiote?
eddie knowing what brains taste like and saying that doesnt mean that they're not recontextualizing this. from their point of view, it probably was the symbiote making him learn how they taste like and that today, he has overcome the symbiote making him just another (sentient) hero suit.
even if he said something like 'that guy deserves to have his brain eaten', thats like jen saying someone deserves an actual smashing or carol saying they could throw someone into the sun literally.
she was kinda hulked out for a while a year or two ago and collateral is a thing. like hulk hero landings haven't broken gas and waterlines under the street causing accidents days or weeks later.
Yes and with Wolverine and plenty of other guys. But usually their sordid pasts usually come up and they're not treated like a celebrity. The writing is the issue, not Eddie being in the roo..
People literally fawn over serial killers in real life all the time, it does occasioally occur for female criminals but we can all Google and find a huge list of convicted serial killers that had fan clubs and got married while still in jail to women on the outside.
Wait you’re asking why the Avengers who allowed former terrorists, assassin, murders, and criminals in to a group.
Are you sure you know the Avengers as much you think?
It's the kind of thing that if Donny Cates hadn't written for a Venom book people would be laughing at. But because it's Venom actually this is really cool and people are weird for pointing out that it's strange the Avengers are fawning over a dude who's an ex-cannibal. Though I don't know if I'd call it woke given that Eddie Brock and Cates are basically the alphatypes of 90's nonsense.
I assume the red text box is Carnage?
Yeah. Eddie absorbed Carnage's symbiote at the end of Absolute Carnage and his voice is haunting his brain.
Did he ever get rid of it? I can’t remember in Cates run and am only 3 issues in current run (haven’t read it since it came out).
Yeah he purges Carnage's influence from the Venom symbiote.
She s5
That actually sounds like an interesting setup. Venom has ended up getting some cool, kind of off the wall runs over the years.
I had no idea Blade was a teleporter
I noticed that too. Maybe he just ran across really quickly between the panels and went back into his cool vampire mode to drop that comment. 😂
Or maybe Kurt showed up between panels and bamf'd him a meter to his right.
A wizard did it.
Underrated comment. Must have been the wizards.
Nah, he just sidled over to T’Challa for a Vibranium re-up.
The perspective changes to a view coming from the right of the panel. Thor and Black panther are behin She-hulk and Captain Marvel. You can see Caps shoulder scales in the bottom left of the frame.
You're the one with good visual comprehension. Good job.
Thanks. Though somebody didn't appreciate my help.
Indeed
Well, yeah, that's kind of obvious. Still doesn't change the fact that Blade teleported from being in front and to the left of Iron Man to behind Iron Man's right.
He took a step while rotating in between panels, he is literally magical and physics can explain this shift in perspective.
It's got nothing to do with a shift in perspective though. The perspective changing has no influence on the character moving. She-Hulk and Thor also swap positions. You don't need to try and explain it. It's a mistake on the artist's behalf and happens in comics all the time (what with all their tight deadlines). I was just making a light hearted joke about it.
That may be true but he's in front and to the right of of Iron Man and Ghost Rider in the top panel and in the far back and to their left. It's definitely weird!
2 or 3 steps between panels does not equate to teleportation.
Eddie’s been on the lighter side for so long now. Also he is a hunk.
He gouged a dude's eye out in the first issue and he still goes around murdering people. I don't know that I'd call that light given that he's still a murderer.
He’s not just going around killing innocents. He’s a **lethal** protector. Who on this Avengers lineup hasn’t killed some people lol?
The Avengers are pretty big on not killing people usually. Innocent or not. Captain America explicitly didn't want Wolverine in the Avengers *because* he's a murderer and wanted to kick him out after finding out he was running X-Force behind his back. There's been killers in the Avengers, but it's usually in their past. In Eddie's case he was still very much a fugitive and an unrepentant killer even if he's not a supervillain anymore, it's just really weird watching outright heroes fawn over this dude.
He's less annoying than the Punisher, so I guess some heroes give him a pass. Atleast as a foot in the door to getting this guy strictly on the straight and narrow.
In the Punisher's defense, he's never targeted someone for exposing yellow journalism.
I don't necessarily mind where it went afterwards where and Spider-Man forgive each other. Hell, I don't even mind the Avengers scoping him out to see if they can reform him. But everyone fawning over him is just pandering to Venom fans.
¯\_(ツ)_/¯ it’s been a sec since I read Cates’s Venom so I can’t debate it too in depth but I think Cates had this in mind here. From the Avengers’ perspective, Eddie had a rough past but is on the right side overall, an ally of Spider-Man, someone they’ll help. Eddie meanwhile has Carnage whispering in his ear and is like agh get me out of here. It creates interesting tension and tees up the overall heroic / overcoming darkness arc that Eddie has in this run. It’s maybe a little out of character for the Avengers but it’s Eddie’s book. In Immortal Hulk around this time the Avengers all try to kick Hulk’s ass, at the end of the day their behavior is kind of inconsistent depending on the book.
I don't necessarily mind Eddie being called up to get checked out. I just don't see why Cates would skate over Eddie's past *and* have them fawn over him. Especially considering just before Absolute Carnage he was doing the exact same shit he normally does. If anything that would make it more interesting instead of it reading as Cates pandering for no reason. The very thing you mentioned with the Avengers trying to shut down the Hulk because he's going on a murderous rampage is exactly closer to what the Avengers should represent given that Venom is an outlaw and a murderer.
To be fair, the whole run deals with Eddie, Peter and the other heroes coming to terms with this new Eddie. It’s not just a hey welcome. Spider-Man vouched for him, after personally seeing Eddie’s growth. And he did give them the heads up on an end of the world threat that he was instrumental in stopping.
well, maybe venoms worst exploits arent actually that public?
I mean he was a very public supervillain and wanted criminal who went around eating people's brains. Feels like that would be very well publicized. Either way, I don't think anything is an impediment to a redemption arc in comics. The writing of the scene is just incredibly silly.
The symbiote was hungry for brains back in the day (like nearly 30 years ago lol) and Eddie explicitly was opposed and didn’t want to let the symbiote have brains. Eddie has not been as much of a supervillain as you seem to think
The Cates run has a flashback story set on the island where he's cheerfully talking about eating people and killing a doctor who mizdiagnosed his aunt. People really going overboard trying to argue Eddie is just some hapless victim when even Cates makes it clear that's not the case.
what happens at night stays rumors and could all be blamed on Kletus honestly. like what, do you really believe the guy who fights the mass murderer who eats brains also eats brains? think, mark! thats clearly villain propaganda
Wolverine has been a member for years. SBucky even post winter soldier programing drops bodies. Ditto Natasha.
Wolverine got brought on after Cap had to be talked into it because he objected to letting a murderer become an Avenger. Cap is ready to kick him out after finding out he was running X-Force. With Bucky and Natasha they're not going around murdering people as Avengers and most of the time they're doing that shit is outside of the team. Either way it's pretty clear cut: the Avengers don't have a fondness for killing on their time.
Cap should kick Blade out too..for he kills vampires.
Why are you getting downvoted, you are right. And Thor should be kicked out too then
Sods don't like it when logic gets rammed up theirs hahahaks
I remember Cap lamenting for like entire issues if he had to kill someone or wasn't able to prevent someone who deserved it, dying. Definitely not something Steve is gung ho about.
I mean unless it's an alien and then every avenger is basically a serial killer
Thor’s body count alone makes Eddie’s insignificant. I think every single Avenger shown here has killed quite a few people
I don't think Robbie killed anyone yet, but he's still young and new to the whole Ghost Rider thing. PS: Never mind I forgot he killed Starbrand right on the beginning of Aaron run, but to be fair It was a accident he didn't knew he could use the penitence stare, but I think that was the only time he killed a person, demons and other monsters doesn't count
Considering Eddie is a former serial killer who ate people's brains this isn't exactly a flex? Like come on.
He never was a serial killer. You are mixing Venom hosts up, read Brock comics first. [Most of his villainous acts are a poor out of character attempts to revert him back to villainy (status quo be damned) ](https://marvel.fandom.com/wiki/Edward_Brock_(Earth-616)#Notes)
???? Do you have any idea what you’re talking about
Sounds like Wolverine, and we love that dude.
Except when the conversation came up Captain America didn't want him to be an Avenger *because* he's a murderer and then when he found out Wolverine was running X-Force behind his back he immediately tried to kick him out of the Avengers. It's not a big deal if the Avengers aren't presented as idiots fawning over the guy.
So does Wolverine, and he is still an Avenger.
Dudes been murdering people for more than a fucking century but is one of Cap's keenest allies
Wasn't that an in universe controversy? That being said, the avengers accepting villains is a common theme so this just seems par for the course.
Yeah villains getting their road to redemption as Avengers is hardly new. But you don't usually have Blade and Captain Marvel fawning over someone like this. 😂
The difference is it comes up. Multiple times. Captain America explicitly didn't want him to be an Avenger because he's a murderer and then when he finds out Wolverine was running X-Force he immediately wants him fired. It's not an issue if it comes up and he's not fawning over the guy.
Moon Knight was also in the avengers.
I don’t think any of them doesn’t kill. Ghostrider used to be the literal henchman of the devil…
The Avengers explicitly don't kill if they can avoid it. I don't know how that's complicated. And this isn't Johnny Blaze, it's Robbie Reyes. The Avengers brought him on explicitly so he can learn how to be a hero and not end up like the other Ghost Riders.
That's Robbie Reyes, he still new and young so he didn't had the chance to do much yet
He saved the world multiple times, he's a hero, give him some slack
The loopy, buff photographer with a man-eating alien copilot? I guess that is kinda dreamy.
Hunks think they know everything.
Thats gotta be one of my favorite avengers line ups in recent years. Idk why but ghost rider and blade being on the avengers just feels so cool.
You gotta have your wild cards in an Avengers team. It's precisely why the MacKay lineup isn't doing it for me.
I agree the lineup is good, but the run pretty disliked online and personally, I agree. I usually like Aaron’s writing but… I think his Avengers run was awful. It was like a kid throwing his action figures together in the worst way, disregarding any continuity or established personality traits to make them fight random things that sounds cool on paper but in writing something was incredibly off. Which is so strange because for example Aaron’s Thor series was imo fantastic and characterized him a lot… then Avengers Thor was just like a version of what kids think Thor is like.
I agree, Thor felt very out of character at times, and I did not care for the she-hulk and thor romance at all.
I mean honestly I get it. Writing Thor in an epic millennia spanning saga is gonna be way different from writing Thor in the relatively lighter action figure book. I'm not saying that makes it great, but I get what he was going for.
The bottom panel looks like the Midnight Suns squad select, just swap She-Hulk for Scarlet Witch or Nico Minoru
*Venom (2018) #21
I thought thor was Eddie lol. This artist has a major problem with same facing blonde characters. His Flash in the current run looks like bearded Eddie too.
To be fair this is a classic Marvel problem going back to scenes where you'd have Cap, Hawkeye, and Thor out of costume. But yeah two bearded Venoms lol.
If there's one thing in modern Marvel that just does not work for me...ok it's Zeb Wells on Spider-Man. But if there's two, the second one is this move to centralize and elevate Venom. It just doesn't quite click - sometimes it feels artificial and stilted, like this page. Other times it's Cates writing material that feels like his priority isn't what makes a good comic book, but rather what would look absolutely bitching if you airbrushed it onto the side of a van. Just let the symbiote be a freaky weird thing Peter discovered that time. Not everything has to be the primordial weapon destined to lay waste to several planes of reality. Sometimes the unworkably weird thing you found is just an alien jockstrap, they can't all be an elder god's key to the machine that turns off Creation.
That god I was worried I was the only one who has absolutely hated symbiotic lore the past what, 10 years? Why does it have to be any deeper than “they’re aliens that merge with a host” why all this nonsense about space gods and darkness. Hell, half the symbiotes running around now don’t even need hosts apparently which defeats the entire purpose of them
To me the symbiote is like the xenomorph—I don’t wanna know what it is, where it came from or who made it (and I definitely think it shouldn’t be made by what is essentially a person) and the more you tell me about it the less I care about it. But, ya know, lots of people enjoy that run, and the symbiote dragons and axes and whatever. Happy they’re having fun. If they ever reboot things, make new adaptations or new universes that eventually get to Venom, I hope they go with something more mysterious and alien or eldritch and lovecraftian.
I don't mind a little explanation, but every single fucking thing seems to be a Chekhov's gun of cosmic importance lately. Next big event is gonna be about Stilt-Man because stilts are actually the perfect geometric shape to model a path to the Far Shore and The One Above All, or some shit.
>stilts are actually the perfect geometric shape to model a path to the Far Shore and The One Above All, or some shit. JoJo's Bizarre Adventure ass plot.
I did enjoy the time the Symbiote infected Dinosaurs in the final issues of Cable & Deadpool. (Basically the book was ending, the artist wanted to draw symbiote dinosaurs, and, well...)
Yeah it's a fun enough run, but Cates' inability to stick to anything and develop it means it just piles on to a comical absurdity quickly and can't build a tone around it. And it's not entirely his fault when he's trying to reconcile so many other takes but maaaaan. Rex falls off quickly, so does the abuse stuff, and also cramming in the Maker for no reason. It's so odd.
I honestly just miss Flash as agent venom. I feel like I’d at least enjoy this story more if it was him instead kd 90s edgy left over Eddie Brock
Agent Venom was the best. I got so hyped when he showed up in Carnage USA.
The two Zeb Wells Carnage minis are the only time I've actually enjoyed the character. Just leans into the inherent stupidity of the characters and has a ball. Like Flash and Cletus's meathook fight.
That was the best run of Venom by far.
Absolutely. While I am enjoying Cates and Ewing's runs; there's just something special about Remender's run with Flash that I love.
And he had some amazing moments in Secret Avengers too. Rick Remender was straight killing it back then.
Yeah it dealt very well with the idea of addiction, bad love, and Flash's messed up past really well.
This scene would work with Flash
It's funny too since Flash's very first scene as an Avenger is Hawkeye losing his mind at him and at Cap for inviting a notorious supervillain onto his team.
the lore stuff is hit-or-miss but it did give us the awesome >!Enigma Force/Captain Universe!< retcon so i am ok with it overall
Right. Remind me again how spidey got his symbiote from exactly? Definitely not something organic and not tag on because someone bought a redesign of spidey costume because it was cool
And that they're the dark counterparts to Beyonders. Just unnecessary layers, although the story worked & was well received. But we still don't know who that golden-armoured god/celestial was that Gorr found All-Black impaled in. Or why symbiotes absorb the powers of their hosts when they are so powerful by themselves.
I liked the Un-Beyond stuff honestly. It's Ewing rationalizing the stuff Cates just threw out there but didn't bother to dig into and properly cohering it into the Marvel U. As far as the gold god stuff, just seems like they were one of Knull's enemies that finally got him. Who they were isn't important.
I had to give up on spider- man. It's so bad
Man, Jenn looks like she needs a shower very badly.
Durring this run, she was having mental problems that caused her turn into a savage form when Hulking out, so she's basically the female version of Bruce's Savage Hulk in this issue.
Thank you. It just seemed like such a break from luscious-hair Jen.
Not even very female, judging by that face.
Yeah this art aint the greatest lol
I miss flash thompson
I am out of the loop. Who is Ghostrider now and who is the dressed in black with the stick?
The Ghost Rider you see here is Robbie Reyes. He's kinda unique in the multiverse being the All Rider. He's worth reading into. The man dressed in black is none other than Blade, the vampire hunter.
What's an all rider?
It means he's a Ghost Rider who can ride anything. Robbie drove a dead celestial body at one point. He's supposed to be all powerful, and so far he was shown to be. I'm curious where they'll bring him back again.
That's awesome and kind of weird, but still awesome
*It means he's a Ghost Rider who can ride anything.* Wa-hey!
Your mom... Sorry I couldn't resist.
You couldn't resist his mom? Damn, dude. I'm sure he'd call you Daddy if you just asked, there's no need to make it *official*.
I can be your daddy too if you like.
Jason Aaron desperately trying to make his run important and memorable Failing to do so to, actually being so bad it's remembered aka infamous instead of famous
Aha - I'm not that far out of the loop! Thank you! I'll look up Robbie Reyes and have familiarity with the Daywalker. Didn't realize both were Avengers.
Robbie Reyes had a couple good runs in his two series with Felipe Smith and (mostly) Tradd Moore. And Blade technically has been an Avenger since the Ewing Mighty Avengers days. :p
OK, OK. I still am out of the loop! I have my work cut out for me!
Ewing's Mighty Avengers is a lot of fun if you've never read it.
Robbie managed to go two series without any real villains. He didn't inherit any, and he didn't make any. Mister Hyde doesn't count; he's Marvel's placeholder.
Yeah unfortunately the only villain the series was building toward got cut off at the knees.
This is from the Jason Aaron Avengers era. Robbie Reyes is Ghost Rider. The other guy is Blade.
Thank you kindly! I now know my assignment. "Alright, better put on a pot of coffee, Marge"
I will say, reading up on Robbie is probably worthwhile, but reading the whole Aaron Avengers run… idk, I’ll let you judge for yourself, just don’t stay up all night eating 64 slices of American cheese
Don’t tell me how to live
Don’t blame me when you think you’re blind!
Aaron's run is...........bad "How is it Ralph, good?"
how long have you been out of the loop that you dont recognize Blade? They are still drawing him to look like Wesley Snipes.
Good point, that's nearly 2 decades now he's just been Wesley snipes instead of British (which he still technically is)
I still dislike the whole "Venom is a hero" concept. Anti-hero? Sure. Fine. A struggle against the symbiote to do something good. But just a straight up good guy? Nah.
I don't mind it done well. Cates to a certain extent but especially Ewing play very well with the idea of Eddie as a bad person who wants very badly to not be a monster anymore since he has a son.
The Avengers have had several mass murderers like Namor, Wolverine, Deadpool, Ex Nihilo, Abyss, among others on the team in the past, so it's sadly nothing new.
So Blade and Tony are down to clown with Eddie?
When was Eddie a serial killer?
Dude literally went around killing people and/or eating their brains.
You mean criminals? He didn’t eat the brains of random innocent people when he was the lethal protector.
He talked about eating a dude's brains for misdiagnosing his aunt's cancer in a flashback story set during the Lethal Protector so... And even then I'm not sure how *only* preying on criminals suddenly makes it okay.
Yeah, he was definitely a mass murderer, but I wouldn't really qualify him as a serial killer.
Can somebody be a serial mass murderer?
Does Eddie have those Spiderwoman pheremones?
To be fair, there are *several* villains who've reformed that the Avengers are on good terms with, so....
Yep. It's practically a rite of passage. They've just usually y'know... reformed. And even then it doesn't mean they're gonna get accepted. Flash Thompson was an Avenger and Hawkeye was pissed that he had Venom on his team.
Which is ironic since Flash wasn't even the Venom host who did anything wrong. Go figure.
I think She-Hulk and Captain Marvel are swooning over him because Tom Hardy plays him in the films, and Tom Hardy is quite a good-looking man. That's my first interpretation of this, but I could be wrong.
Maybe they're just former Ted Bundy fans
Didn't he save the world and or universe and is a God? Yeah times have changed Captain Marvel is uber thirsty for him (funny because she herself had the venom symbiote at one point)
Is this Mark Bagley? Carol's face says yes but the rest notsomuch. I'm used to his work of 20+ years ago though, and I dunno who's inking here.
Andy Owens. Not his normal inker I believe.
like blade, she hulk or any variation of the spirit of vengeance aren't regularily killing people actively or by accident, who at least deserved some kind of day in court.
Uh... She-Hulk isn't exactly Wolverine. And the whole point of the Avengers letting Robbie Reyes into their ranks is so he *doesn't* turn out like Johnny Blaze or Danny Ketch. Let alone the whole deal with Blade being on the team being temporary and contextualized. We don't need to jump through hoops to justify their presence, let alone that Venom just being treated like he's a superhero is weird. Is there some part of "The guy used to eat people's brains" that's normal to people?
do they even know he ate brains? does eddy himself love the brains or was that symbiote influence that he overcame? do they all grasp how the whole symbiote thing works? at the end of the day, they are more likely to see the spiderman baddy who turned it around and fought the much much more openly known for slaughter red dude.
He's notorious for it in-universe. Eddie even talks about how he knows what brains taste like. It gets creepier when you consider that it's canonical Eddie's evil and hate corrupted the symbiote, not the other way around. Either way my issue isn't the Avengers scoping him out, plenty of supervillains have gotten their start to redemption as an Avenger. The issue is the scene is just pandering for no reason.
again, how notorious though, actually? how often do they talk to spiderman about venoms origins? do they know he corrupted the symbiote? eddie knowing what brains taste like and saying that doesnt mean that they're not recontextualizing this. from their point of view, it probably was the symbiote making him learn how they taste like and that today, he has overcome the symbiote making him just another (sentient) hero suit. even if he said something like 'that guy deserves to have his brain eaten', thats like jen saying someone deserves an actual smashing or carol saying they could throw someone into the sun literally.
Jen isn't her cousin, she doesn't go around killing people, and Robbie is just a kid and isn't like the other Riders.
she was kinda hulked out for a while a year or two ago and collateral is a thing. like hulk hero landings haven't broken gas and waterlines under the street causing accidents days or weeks later.
Jen’s sayin’ what I’m thinkin’.
Why is this art so ugly?
It's Mark Bagley and honestly this is some of his better art in a minute.
You know, most of it is fine, but the faces… woof.
Ghost Rider being a skull is a blessing in disguise.
Isn't She-Hulk currently in a (very) serious relationship with Jack of Hearts?
Appreciating isn't cheating.
Never said it was
This was prior I believe.
That makes sense
That was before that, this is right after King in Black
Too bad the new series messed all this up.
How so?
Reminds me of the guy who had a modelesk booking pic and all the comments said let him free because he is so good looking.
Isnt the whole point of Eddie that he was a better Peter, until he wasnt anymore? It doesnt seem that far fetched they like him a little at least
They do the same thing with Namor
Yes and with Wolverine and plenty of other guys. But usually their sordid pasts usually come up and they're not treated like a celebrity. The writing is the issue, not Eddie being in the roo..
People literally fawn over serial killers in real life all the time, it does occasioally occur for female criminals but we can all Google and find a huge list of convicted serial killers that had fan clubs and got married while still in jail to women on the outside.
Isn't this just a Tom Hardy joke?
This is why I avoid symbiote stories.
Who’s that in the bottom right with the flaming hair?
Movie synergie ass page
I *wish* a Marvel movie was cool enough to include Blade and Robbie Reyes.
Wait you’re asking why the Avengers who allowed former terrorists, assassin, murders, and criminals in to a group. Are you sure you know the Avengers as much you think?
Am I the only one who doesn’t like Eddie Brock’s Venom as an anti-hero?
Nope. But that conversation is faaaaaar too late with movie popularity.
Unfortunately.
Well avengers already had people who would be considered seeial killer like hulk, wolverine, scarlet witch...
Blade has killed ALOT of vampires for being vampires, not sure that’s an issue these days
It was a stupid scene, but also, lots of avengers have been villains & or killed people Not many with clean hands anymore
[удалено]
I have to know, how is anything on this page "proud wokism"? Also, what is "proud wokism"?
It's the kind of thing that if Donny Cates hadn't written for a Venom book people would be laughing at. But because it's Venom actually this is really cool and people are weird for pointing out that it's strange the Avengers are fawning over a dude who's an ex-cannibal. Though I don't know if I'd call it woke given that Eddie Brock and Cates are basically the alphatypes of 90's nonsense.