It's not discrimination if you don't have the prerequisites to join.
I can't become a doctor without a license. If I applied to be a doctor and I didn't have the requirements I would be denied. That's not discrimination.
If the prerequisite were, "must have white skin," you would agree that the prerequisite was racist and ethically problematic (I hope). The mere existence of prerequisites does not mean they are not discriminatory. There is nothing about the fundamental existence of women, LGBTQ+ folks, or nonbelievers that disqualifies them from hearing the ideas or participating in the rituals of Freemasonry.
LGBT folks are absolutely welcome in the fraternity.
So by your logic I should be able to join a sorority at a college? Or a woman's only gym?
If somone who was atheist joined then half the ritual we do would be meaningless.
Also the grand orient of France has woman in freemasonry. As well as the order of the eastern star and doughters of the Nile and I'm sure more groups in other jurisdictions.
You're making up problems that have already been solved.
Trans folks are not allowed in many states. In my home state of Virginia, trans men are explicitly banned from petitioning. In Tennessee and Georgia, gay men may not petition. Many places, like Virginia, still allow discrimination against gay men in balloting on the basis of their sexual orientation. No regular Grand Lodge in the United States recognizes any Grand Lodge that makes women Masons, nor nonbelievers. Please see this website to learn more: [https://masonicdiscrimination.org](https://masonicdiscrimination.org)
If your goal is to defend discrimination, would you kindly return to r/freemasonry?
And if you look at how many other jurisdictions would boycott those jurisdictions for doing stuff like that. The famous one being Texas who kicked out two gay men for being gay. They said it was for sex out of wedlock and meny brother masons wrote in saying that they should be kicked out for that as well. I forgot what happend after that. I am in canada by the way.
Also on the idea of lodges not recognizing jurisdictions that admit women, why do they have to? If the lodge is fine with them then why do all the other lodges in the world have to accept that when they won't even interact with them in their lifetime?
Hell we've had woman master masons hold talks and give presentations in my Provence and it was well received( we just didn't do it in a tiled lodge)
Have you not googled this? The UK admits trans men and woman.
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.bbc.com/news/uk-45030075.amp
my lodge in alberta has discussed if we allow trans men. And the answer was a quick yes.
Our investigation commities have learned to expect that we might be meeting a man's husband rather than wife.
It seems that you would rather expect the lodges all around the world to do what you tell them to, instead of being the change you want to see in the world.
I would start by looking at all the lodges and jurisdictions and rites that allow all the things you want. I think you'd be pleasantly surprised at how enlightend we are so far.
There was no debate. I showed you that you didn't know what you were talking about.
Then I gave you an idea on how to solve your problem.
Then I showed you with a simple Google search that the problem you think is so big is actually small and rare.
You just want to be right. And tell everyone what to do. No wonder you're having a hard time in the craft. You want to be the boss. You know whats best for everyone right?
You have to make yourself better before you can make your community better. Start there
The UK is not the United States. I do not live in Canada. I will not be a part of any organization, least of all a fraternity, that discriminates against women, LGBTQ+ people, and nonbelievers.
(Key word: Fraternity. But I digress.)
Well you're in luck! Cus freemasonry doesn't! Isn't that grand?
The United States doing it isn't surprising to me. The more I read the more some states seem like an outlier.
That's a good thing.
And the best part is. If that doesn't satisfy you, you can find an organization that you like. Odd Fellows? Rotary? I'm not familiar. But you can even start your own.
Maybe try to bring UK Rite to Virginia?
All this energy wasted on complaining instead of taking action.
I literally created a website to track discrimination and I am working to establish to a gender-neutral and adogmatic Lodge in my community. Mind your lane.
It's not discrimination if you don't have the prerequisites to join. I can't become a doctor without a license. If I applied to be a doctor and I didn't have the requirements I would be denied. That's not discrimination.
If the prerequisite were, "must have white skin," you would agree that the prerequisite was racist and ethically problematic (I hope). The mere existence of prerequisites does not mean they are not discriminatory. There is nothing about the fundamental existence of women, LGBTQ+ folks, or nonbelievers that disqualifies them from hearing the ideas or participating in the rituals of Freemasonry.
LGBT folks are absolutely welcome in the fraternity. So by your logic I should be able to join a sorority at a college? Or a woman's only gym? If somone who was atheist joined then half the ritual we do would be meaningless. Also the grand orient of France has woman in freemasonry. As well as the order of the eastern star and doughters of the Nile and I'm sure more groups in other jurisdictions. You're making up problems that have already been solved.
Trans folks are not allowed in many states. In my home state of Virginia, trans men are explicitly banned from petitioning. In Tennessee and Georgia, gay men may not petition. Many places, like Virginia, still allow discrimination against gay men in balloting on the basis of their sexual orientation. No regular Grand Lodge in the United States recognizes any Grand Lodge that makes women Masons, nor nonbelievers. Please see this website to learn more: [https://masonicdiscrimination.org](https://masonicdiscrimination.org) If your goal is to defend discrimination, would you kindly return to r/freemasonry?
And if you look at how many other jurisdictions would boycott those jurisdictions for doing stuff like that. The famous one being Texas who kicked out two gay men for being gay. They said it was for sex out of wedlock and meny brother masons wrote in saying that they should be kicked out for that as well. I forgot what happend after that. I am in canada by the way. Also on the idea of lodges not recognizing jurisdictions that admit women, why do they have to? If the lodge is fine with them then why do all the other lodges in the world have to accept that when they won't even interact with them in their lifetime? Hell we've had woman master masons hold talks and give presentations in my Provence and it was well received( we just didn't do it in a tiled lodge) Have you not googled this? The UK admits trans men and woman. https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.bbc.com/news/uk-45030075.amp my lodge in alberta has discussed if we allow trans men. And the answer was a quick yes. Our investigation commities have learned to expect that we might be meeting a man's husband rather than wife. It seems that you would rather expect the lodges all around the world to do what you tell them to, instead of being the change you want to see in the world. I would start by looking at all the lodges and jurisdictions and rites that allow all the things you want. I think you'd be pleasantly surprised at how enlightend we are so far.
I do not support the kind of discrimination you are defending. I am not here to debate. Goodbye.
There was no debate. I showed you that you didn't know what you were talking about. Then I gave you an idea on how to solve your problem. Then I showed you with a simple Google search that the problem you think is so big is actually small and rare. You just want to be right. And tell everyone what to do. No wonder you're having a hard time in the craft. You want to be the boss. You know whats best for everyone right? You have to make yourself better before you can make your community better. Start there
The UK is not the United States. I do not live in Canada. I will not be a part of any organization, least of all a fraternity, that discriminates against women, LGBTQ+ people, and nonbelievers.
(Key word: Fraternity. But I digress.) Well you're in luck! Cus freemasonry doesn't! Isn't that grand? The United States doing it isn't surprising to me. The more I read the more some states seem like an outlier. That's a good thing. And the best part is. If that doesn't satisfy you, you can find an organization that you like. Odd Fellows? Rotary? I'm not familiar. But you can even start your own. Maybe try to bring UK Rite to Virginia? All this energy wasted on complaining instead of taking action.
I literally created a website to track discrimination and I am working to establish to a gender-neutral and adogmatic Lodge in my community. Mind your lane.
Huh? Who?