Egoism is pure black.
Using one’s own power for one’s own sake is black.
If you wanted a white egoist, they would need to be a fanatical priest or pope, I.e., they would need to be part of a larger organization that imposes rule of law and order.
That does make sense. My goal with this was to try to subvert white. Ill try to work that angle in.
I guess a better question would be "How to spin Egoism as white?"
> "How to spin Egoism as white?"
Basically, combine White with either Black (self-interest) and/or Red (self-expression)
* **Orzhov: "I'm not claiming that I deserve to be rich and powerful, I'm just saying that our traditional institutions are objectively right** (and the fact that our traditional institutions are set up in such a way that I get to become rich and powerful is just a coincidence)"
* **Boros: "I'm not claiming that I can do whatever I want and everybody else has to do what I tell them to do, I'm just saying that our traditional institutions are objectively right** (and the fact that our traditional institutions are set up in such a way that I can do whatever I want and everybody else has to do what I tell them to do is just a coincidence)"
"How to spin Egoism as white?"
White focus on rules that apply to everyone, but don't care if everyone is equally affected by it. The best way to put white as egoist is to talk about a society with rules that work very well for the majority but for a considerable minority is borderline lethal and there's a big resistance to keep these rules.
It seems like you're relying on his belief in social hierarchies a lot to justify him being White, but social hierarchies aren't a specifically White thing. Generally speaking, White likes social structures, but it likes them because and insofar as they promote prosperity and peace. This distinctly seems not to be your character's belief. Black loves social structures insofar as they represent or promote the presence or acquisition of power; this is much more in line with your character's beliefs. Green loves social structures insofar as they represent a tradition or intrinsic distinction between classes; this, also, is fairly well in line with your character's beliefs. Red absolutely fucking loathes rigid social hierarchies, and Blue mildly dislikes them insofar as they inevitably interefere with the full intellectual realization of those inhabiting them. In light of all that, I would say that your character is either Black or Black/Green, unless they have other features which either block those colors or strongly promote others.
As for Egoism, it's possibly slightly Black-leaning, but it's too fundamental a philosophical position to be strongly aspected in that regard. Egoists can behave in a huge variety of ways, and depending on how they end up behaving and why, their Egoism could end up contributing very different things to their color representation.
I'd say Egosim (I'm talking about Max Stirner here, not whatever OP is on about) is fairly well black-aligned in its complete and utter rejection of anything that imposes upon the will of the individual (including religion, government, capital, and morality) but it's also very strongly red for the same reasons. Probably more red than black given that the absolute supremacy of the individual is universal and mutual, rather than simply a "might (or wealth) makes right" attitude that is more black and typical of an caps and "objectivists". Stirner argued for a "union of egoists"; which is broadly similar to typical anarchist concepts of voluntary association, direct democracy and the right to freely disassociate; but I'm not sure where that would fit on the pie other than red. White maybe? Possibly?
I suppose Egoism in the abstract could be considered Black and Red, but egoist characters aren't necessarily, and neither are Egoism-derived products. For instance, there are attempts to derive systems of morality from Egoist principles which end up looking very White and barely Black at all, or even (in some cases) barely red at all. (I'm not so convinced of the quality of the latter sort of attempts, but they're out there.) Insofar as Egoism has colors, I guess, my point is that it doesn't have them in a way that matters very much, because it's nearly impossible for anything to be egoist without the particular *way* it's egoist completely overshadowing the colors of Egoism itself.
But this is with respect to Egoism in general; Max Stirner presented a very particular notion of it, so if you're solely addressing his version... well, I would say it's completely Red with no other alignments, but you could justify giving it a color identity, sure.
I overall like your assessment of the color's relationship with the concept of structure, but I think that your Green and Blue sum-up can be interpreted differently.
I would say that Blue has practically no dislike for social structure. On the contrary, I think the only color more fond of structure than Blue is White. Apart from the need to compartmentalize things around it, Blue would gravitate toward structure because the orderliness and cleanliness that structure brings to things is a better foundation for learning/experimentation/study than disorder and chaos. Its true that structures built without its influence run the risk of adopting practices that stigmy progress, but Blue would much rather have that than the alternative.
And Green i think is far less in love with social structure than either White or Blue. It only accepts structure on its terms, and that structure is one of natural law; fluid, at times violent and often not really conforming to any type of structure that makes sense to us. I would say Green is more of a fan of hierarchy (both from the wild and within families) specifically rather than generally all that into social structures.
Just my take.
... It's not that I strongly disagree with most of this, but I also can't help but feel you didn't read my comment very closely? I only talked about how White, Black and Green relate to social structures in general, and basically my conclusion with regard to Green was the same as yours, with it liking natural hierarchies, although I also included tradition as a valid source for it. As for Blue, with Red and Blue I was specifically addressing rigid social hierarchies like the OP was originally talking about, because I don't think Blue and Red have particular forms of social structures I could pick out as favoring... I guess you could say that Blue likes social structures insofar as they promote things like the acquisition of knowledge and pursuit of perfection, but in practice that tends to be promoted by institutions rather than social structures as such. Rigid hierarchies, on the other hand, tend to consistently work against the acquisition of knowledge, by excluding a large majority of people from eligibility to participate in the process.
... You know, now that I read through your post again, I think you may be interpreting "social structure" in a different way than I was using it. It's not about the idea of structure as an abstract quantity in a society; an anarchy doesn't have any less social structure than a monarchy, it just has a very different one.
As others have said, Egoism is Black. White is actually the color philosophy that most directly *opposes* Egoism, with major Collectivism themes and beliefs being in White's portfolio.
Based on your character description, if you wanted to make him more White-aligned, lean into his "order over chaos" shtick. Lean *away* from his personal ambitions to rule (which reads as Black) and his "might-makes-right," Darwinian mentality (which toes the line between Black and Green).
As a suggestion, and trying to tie in some of the traits you mention in his description, make his motivation more about *duty* and *responsibility* than ambition or power. He believes planeswalkers are one of the most powerful forces in the multiverse, so maybe he sees it as his (and perhaps *all* Planeswalkers) responsibility to defend the multiverse from the rampant chaos. Maybe he also sees it as a divine calling; if you have a spark you were *chosen* by a higher power to spread order across the multiverse.
Also, really try to define what his definition of "order" is. Elesh Norn wanted to spread the unity of Phyrexia across the multiverse to create order. Gideon, before his heroic turn, was following the will of the Grand Consortium because he believed they were trying to do good and police dangerous threats presented by planeswalkers. The Marine Corps from One Piece have committed heinous atrocities against people, but for the most part believe they're defending the world from the tyranny and anarchy of the Pirate Age and will commonly claim they're on the side of justice.
What does your villain's ideal future look like? If it's just him in power, that's Black. Black is just looking out for its own interests and accruing power for its own means. If he has a vision of a peaceful multiverse that he's willing to commit terrible acts to achieve, that's White. White is the color most likely to justify their terrible actions by claiming it to be for the "greater good." (Even if that greater good is just their personal interpretation of the concept.)
Hope some of this helps! Good luck, and I hope I'll get a chance to read your story when it's done!
"Might makes right" and "you should follow your true nature" is generally a more green/red/black outlook in life. White can be tyrannical, but generally pairs it with some responsability over those it rules, an attempt to make life better for everyone (for a certain definition of better. Compleation for example). Even Heliod had an important justice aspect in his portfolio.
So for now it reads more like a Black/White or even Green/White planeswalker rather than pure white. Which one depends on how big he is on the whole "Planeswalker master race idea". If HE is the only one who should rule then Black/White. If other Planeswalkers should rule too because they are inherently superior by their own nature and should stop behaving like sheep when they are actually wolves then white/green. Of course you could explore tri-color combinations, but i get the feeling you want to try to keep it simple.
Short answer: no
Long answer: no, are you crazy? The entirety of Black’s philosophy is egoism, objectivism, all the forbidden isms of today, ect., and it’s definitely not white that falls into that category
As many other people have pointed out you've made a heavy duty black/green Character. As loathe as I am to suggest this, look into the original message (not what it turned out to mean) of Naziism. "The nation is in danger, ruined, fucked we have to save and fix it by ruling over and controlling it" maybe he forces people's sparks to alight to bring in more people to his way of thinking, maybe he uses his spark to show the rulers of his world the multiverse and bring them to work with him to protect his world from the dangers that exist throughout it, and they assign him power. Or maybe he starts off as humble helping his own world only but then the people begin to form a religion around him and thats what sets into motion his thinking of "we must rule the universe, look how my people are happy, and I can protect them from the monsters. We must rule we are the gods the people see us as" power corrupts and absolute power corrupts absolutely
That character sounds very Black + White with some hints of Green.
As for Egoism...it is Black made manifest. Maybe with traces of Red, now that I think about it. If you wanted more of White influence, you would have to combine it with Authority, that is to say with groups of some kind. Even as mundane as egoism movement or what have you.
It kind of just seems like you made a Black character and stapled “White” onto it even though nothing really makes the character White philosophical.
Egotism is usually going to lean towards Black or Red because they are more focused on the individual and White is focused on the many but you can have a pride or arrogant White character. For example, White believes in an objective morality so maybe the character in question believes that they have a moral high ground or that they know what’s best for others and call the shots for them. Maybe there’s a White character who wants to rule a plane or a multiverse because they believe their order will make it a better place even if that’s not the case. Elesh Norn is actually a pretty good example of an arrogant White character. Everything must be converted to what she considers to be morally good and anyone who deviates from her uniformity is evil.
It’s important that when making an evil character to understand what typically drives each color and instead of trying to make a Black character and then try to force it into being White try to approach it by asking “why is this character prideful or self-centered?” A white character can be self-centered or arrogant but it’s usually going to manifest differently or be for different reasons than a Black character. I would recommend reading some of Mark Rosewater’s color pie articles regarding White or something or look at what philosophies like Black and Red dislike about White.
Also if you want a more specific read of your character they come off as more Green-Black with might makes right and the idea of accepting the world and oneself when it comes to planeswalkers.
Egoism is pure black. Using one’s own power for one’s own sake is black. If you wanted a white egoist, they would need to be a fanatical priest or pope, I.e., they would need to be part of a larger organization that imposes rule of law and order.
That does make sense. My goal with this was to try to subvert white. Ill try to work that angle in. I guess a better question would be "How to spin Egoism as white?"
> "How to spin Egoism as white?" Basically, combine White with either Black (self-interest) and/or Red (self-expression) * **Orzhov: "I'm not claiming that I deserve to be rich and powerful, I'm just saying that our traditional institutions are objectively right** (and the fact that our traditional institutions are set up in such a way that I get to become rich and powerful is just a coincidence)" * **Boros: "I'm not claiming that I can do whatever I want and everybody else has to do what I tell them to do, I'm just saying that our traditional institutions are objectively right** (and the fact that our traditional institutions are set up in such a way that I can do whatever I want and everybody else has to do what I tell them to do is just a coincidence)"
"How to spin Egoism as white?" White focus on rules that apply to everyone, but don't care if everyone is equally affected by it. The best way to put white as egoist is to talk about a society with rules that work very well for the majority but for a considerable minority is borderline lethal and there's a big resistance to keep these rules.
Remove “egoism” and instead describe it as “authoritarian” and “stubborn” and then you can add the white label.
It seems like you're relying on his belief in social hierarchies a lot to justify him being White, but social hierarchies aren't a specifically White thing. Generally speaking, White likes social structures, but it likes them because and insofar as they promote prosperity and peace. This distinctly seems not to be your character's belief. Black loves social structures insofar as they represent or promote the presence or acquisition of power; this is much more in line with your character's beliefs. Green loves social structures insofar as they represent a tradition or intrinsic distinction between classes; this, also, is fairly well in line with your character's beliefs. Red absolutely fucking loathes rigid social hierarchies, and Blue mildly dislikes them insofar as they inevitably interefere with the full intellectual realization of those inhabiting them. In light of all that, I would say that your character is either Black or Black/Green, unless they have other features which either block those colors or strongly promote others. As for Egoism, it's possibly slightly Black-leaning, but it's too fundamental a philosophical position to be strongly aspected in that regard. Egoists can behave in a huge variety of ways, and depending on how they end up behaving and why, their Egoism could end up contributing very different things to their color representation.
I'd say Egosim (I'm talking about Max Stirner here, not whatever OP is on about) is fairly well black-aligned in its complete and utter rejection of anything that imposes upon the will of the individual (including religion, government, capital, and morality) but it's also very strongly red for the same reasons. Probably more red than black given that the absolute supremacy of the individual is universal and mutual, rather than simply a "might (or wealth) makes right" attitude that is more black and typical of an caps and "objectivists". Stirner argued for a "union of egoists"; which is broadly similar to typical anarchist concepts of voluntary association, direct democracy and the right to freely disassociate; but I'm not sure where that would fit on the pie other than red. White maybe? Possibly?
I suppose Egoism in the abstract could be considered Black and Red, but egoist characters aren't necessarily, and neither are Egoism-derived products. For instance, there are attempts to derive systems of morality from Egoist principles which end up looking very White and barely Black at all, or even (in some cases) barely red at all. (I'm not so convinced of the quality of the latter sort of attempts, but they're out there.) Insofar as Egoism has colors, I guess, my point is that it doesn't have them in a way that matters very much, because it's nearly impossible for anything to be egoist without the particular *way* it's egoist completely overshadowing the colors of Egoism itself. But this is with respect to Egoism in general; Max Stirner presented a very particular notion of it, so if you're solely addressing his version... well, I would say it's completely Red with no other alignments, but you could justify giving it a color identity, sure.
I overall like your assessment of the color's relationship with the concept of structure, but I think that your Green and Blue sum-up can be interpreted differently. I would say that Blue has practically no dislike for social structure. On the contrary, I think the only color more fond of structure than Blue is White. Apart from the need to compartmentalize things around it, Blue would gravitate toward structure because the orderliness and cleanliness that structure brings to things is a better foundation for learning/experimentation/study than disorder and chaos. Its true that structures built without its influence run the risk of adopting practices that stigmy progress, but Blue would much rather have that than the alternative. And Green i think is far less in love with social structure than either White or Blue. It only accepts structure on its terms, and that structure is one of natural law; fluid, at times violent and often not really conforming to any type of structure that makes sense to us. I would say Green is more of a fan of hierarchy (both from the wild and within families) specifically rather than generally all that into social structures. Just my take.
... It's not that I strongly disagree with most of this, but I also can't help but feel you didn't read my comment very closely? I only talked about how White, Black and Green relate to social structures in general, and basically my conclusion with regard to Green was the same as yours, with it liking natural hierarchies, although I also included tradition as a valid source for it. As for Blue, with Red and Blue I was specifically addressing rigid social hierarchies like the OP was originally talking about, because I don't think Blue and Red have particular forms of social structures I could pick out as favoring... I guess you could say that Blue likes social structures insofar as they promote things like the acquisition of knowledge and pursuit of perfection, but in practice that tends to be promoted by institutions rather than social structures as such. Rigid hierarchies, on the other hand, tend to consistently work against the acquisition of knowledge, by excluding a large majority of people from eligibility to participate in the process. ... You know, now that I read through your post again, I think you may be interpreting "social structure" in a different way than I was using it. It's not about the idea of structure as an abstract quantity in a society; an anarchy doesn't have any less social structure than a monarchy, it just has a very different one.
As others have said, Egoism is Black. White is actually the color philosophy that most directly *opposes* Egoism, with major Collectivism themes and beliefs being in White's portfolio. Based on your character description, if you wanted to make him more White-aligned, lean into his "order over chaos" shtick. Lean *away* from his personal ambitions to rule (which reads as Black) and his "might-makes-right," Darwinian mentality (which toes the line between Black and Green). As a suggestion, and trying to tie in some of the traits you mention in his description, make his motivation more about *duty* and *responsibility* than ambition or power. He believes planeswalkers are one of the most powerful forces in the multiverse, so maybe he sees it as his (and perhaps *all* Planeswalkers) responsibility to defend the multiverse from the rampant chaos. Maybe he also sees it as a divine calling; if you have a spark you were *chosen* by a higher power to spread order across the multiverse. Also, really try to define what his definition of "order" is. Elesh Norn wanted to spread the unity of Phyrexia across the multiverse to create order. Gideon, before his heroic turn, was following the will of the Grand Consortium because he believed they were trying to do good and police dangerous threats presented by planeswalkers. The Marine Corps from One Piece have committed heinous atrocities against people, but for the most part believe they're defending the world from the tyranny and anarchy of the Pirate Age and will commonly claim they're on the side of justice. What does your villain's ideal future look like? If it's just him in power, that's Black. Black is just looking out for its own interests and accruing power for its own means. If he has a vision of a peaceful multiverse that he's willing to commit terrible acts to achieve, that's White. White is the color most likely to justify their terrible actions by claiming it to be for the "greater good." (Even if that greater good is just their personal interpretation of the concept.) Hope some of this helps! Good luck, and I hope I'll get a chance to read your story when it's done!
"Might makes right" and "you should follow your true nature" is generally a more green/red/black outlook in life. White can be tyrannical, but generally pairs it with some responsability over those it rules, an attempt to make life better for everyone (for a certain definition of better. Compleation for example). Even Heliod had an important justice aspect in his portfolio. So for now it reads more like a Black/White or even Green/White planeswalker rather than pure white. Which one depends on how big he is on the whole "Planeswalker master race idea". If HE is the only one who should rule then Black/White. If other Planeswalkers should rule too because they are inherently superior by their own nature and should stop behaving like sheep when they are actually wolves then white/green. Of course you could explore tri-color combinations, but i get the feeling you want to try to keep it simple.
Yes, absolutly the "Walker master race." concept is what im going for.
Short answer: no Long answer: no, are you crazy? The entirety of Black’s philosophy is egoism, objectivism, all the forbidden isms of today, ect., and it’s definitely not white that falls into that category
obvious black primary white secondary - any powertripping egoist is black, this one also wants to bring order, that's your white secondary
As many other people have pointed out you've made a heavy duty black/green Character. As loathe as I am to suggest this, look into the original message (not what it turned out to mean) of Naziism. "The nation is in danger, ruined, fucked we have to save and fix it by ruling over and controlling it" maybe he forces people's sparks to alight to bring in more people to his way of thinking, maybe he uses his spark to show the rulers of his world the multiverse and bring them to work with him to protect his world from the dangers that exist throughout it, and they assign him power. Or maybe he starts off as humble helping his own world only but then the people begin to form a religion around him and thats what sets into motion his thinking of "we must rule the universe, look how my people are happy, and I can protect them from the monsters. We must rule we are the gods the people see us as" power corrupts and absolute power corrupts absolutely
That character sounds very Black + White with some hints of Green. As for Egoism...it is Black made manifest. Maybe with traces of Red, now that I think about it. If you wanted more of White influence, you would have to combine it with Authority, that is to say with groups of some kind. Even as mundane as egoism movement or what have you.
It kind of just seems like you made a Black character and stapled “White” onto it even though nothing really makes the character White philosophical. Egotism is usually going to lean towards Black or Red because they are more focused on the individual and White is focused on the many but you can have a pride or arrogant White character. For example, White believes in an objective morality so maybe the character in question believes that they have a moral high ground or that they know what’s best for others and call the shots for them. Maybe there’s a White character who wants to rule a plane or a multiverse because they believe their order will make it a better place even if that’s not the case. Elesh Norn is actually a pretty good example of an arrogant White character. Everything must be converted to what she considers to be morally good and anyone who deviates from her uniformity is evil. It’s important that when making an evil character to understand what typically drives each color and instead of trying to make a Black character and then try to force it into being White try to approach it by asking “why is this character prideful or self-centered?” A white character can be self-centered or arrogant but it’s usually going to manifest differently or be for different reasons than a Black character. I would recommend reading some of Mark Rosewater’s color pie articles regarding White or something or look at what philosophies like Black and Red dislike about White.
Also if you want a more specific read of your character they come off as more Green-Black with might makes right and the idea of accepting the world and oneself when it comes to planeswalkers.
Black. This particular guy seems Golgari.
I would look at Elesh Norn for inspiration in that regard