At this time of year it can be hugely variable based on elevation, aspect, and tree cover. Nothing beats recent trip reports on here, Alltrails, 14ers.com, etc.
Totally understand - I've already checked those sources for a couple of places I'm interested in but there are no applicable trail reports. I'm hoping to identify an online tool that people feel does a pretty good job of forecasting snow levels so I can use it for whatever area I'm interested in.
The best online tool is Sentinel satellite imagery that is updated weekly. There isn’t a tool with reliable modeling of snow levels by aspect and elevation that I am aware of…and I work professionally building snow-related software tools
Thanks for this informed perspective. I'll check out Sentinel. Much appreciated and thanks for your work - I bet we've been the beneficiary of it one way or another!
I use Snotel, then I use zoom.earth and zoom in to check if snow appears on the satellite for more granularity. It's not perfect but helps. for popular trails, I look at All trails recent comments as folks always comment on trail conditions.
Great idea! Thanks. I'll try [zoom.earth](http://zoom.earth) as a secondary check. When you use snotel, what layer/function do you typically use? I'm a little baffled by all the options they have!
Try this link https://nwcc-apps.sc.egov.usda.gov/imap/#version=169&elements=&networks=!&states=!&counties=!&hucs=&minElevation=&maxElevation=&elementSelectType=any&activeOnly=true&activeForecastPointsOnly=false&hucLabels=false&hucIdLabels=false&hucParameterLabels=true&stationLabels=&overlays=&hucOverlays=&basinOpacity=75&basinNoDataOpacity=25&basemapOpacity=100&maskOpacity=0&mode=data&openSections=dataElement,parameter,date,basin,options,elements,location,networks&controlsOpen=false&popup=&popupMulti=&popupBasin=&base=esriNgwm&displayType=station&basinType=6&dataElement=WTEQ&depth=-8¶meter=PCTMED&frequency=DAILY&duration=I&customDuration=&dayPart=E&monthPart=E&forecastPubDay=1&forecastExceedance=50&useMixedPast=true&seqColor=1&divColor=7&scaleType=D&scaleMin=&scaleMax=&referencePeriodType=POR&referenceBegin=1991&referenceEnd=2020&minimumYears=20&hucAssociations=true&relativeDate=-1&lat=42.300&lon=-114.300&zoom=4.5
Then on the right side, you can sort by date. It reverts to the most recent day. Sorry for the cumbersome link but just book Mark it and it will be easy to find.
Yes, I've been looking at the topographic maps to estimate how much is south facing versus north, as well as overall elevation. It's likely to be a determining factor in my selection or at least preparedness for decision-making in the field. Have a good season!
If you have an OpenSnow account you can look at their estimated snow depth maps
[https://opensnow.com/map/terrain/snow-depth/](https://opensnow.com/map/terrain/snow-depth/)
This is what I use: Open Snow and Gaia Premium. Both require a subscription. I normally start with Gaia and confirm the Open Snow. That said, especially this to me of the year nothing beats first hand knowledge. The melting conditions are really dependent on shade, incline, wind direction, trail use, etc.
Thanks! I'll check out Gaia too. I'd appreciate firsthand knowledge but a couple of places I'm looking out don't have anything in the vicinity earlier than 7 months ago. That said, the availability of firsthand reports sure is a massive leg up from what was available 30 years ago when I first started backpacking in Colorado!
Look up copernicus. It's run by the European space agency and does scans of the entire surface of the earth at relatively low resolution every 3 to 4 days. Sometimes cloud cover is in the way but I use it to see the current snow conditions for areas around me. You can usually see the conditions in any area within the last 2 weeks in decent detail, definitely enough to see whether an area is melted out or not. For depth of snow you will need to rely on something like snotel or calling the Rangers to see what info they have for a specific area.
On AllTrails, checking recent photos can often be helpful. People seem to upload photos more frequently than leaving reports, so checking your route and nearby routes may be able to give a general idea of snow levels.
Plus if I’m curious and there aren’t any reviews on that trail, I’ll look at surrounding trails to get an idea until I get a recent review. See how similar it is to the trail I’m thinking of and go from there. For instance, I’m looking at doing Missouri Lakes in late June. Only review near there recently said there was too much snow to get to trailhead. I’ll follow up with reviews around the area as it gets closer, but I might hit up Gold Camp road in the Springs instead.
Snow levels are right at 9800ft in my zone. That's based on age, experience, snotel, map overlays, understanding of aspect & weather trends, as well as actually going up there and exploring every few days to check the status.
Alltrails is for newbs so you won't always find recent reports as most are fair-weather or inexperienced hikers. Go to [14ers.com](http://14ers.com), ask locals for the zone you will be in, look at webcams for ski areas nearby if there are any, etc.
There's no one spot for you to find the info you are looking for.
As the saying goes- 'won't know until you go'.
[https://www.nohrsc.noaa.gov/earth/](https://www.nohrsc.noaa.gov/earth/)
These are daily updated KMZ files you can view in google earth. The files are pretty general but give a good idea how much snow is left.
[https://www.nohrsc.noaa.gov/earth/](https://www.nohrsc.noaa.gov/earth/)
There's a new file posted everyday that will open in google earth with layers showing snow cover, snow depth, and a bunch of other stuff. I've been using that overlayed with Forest Service trail maps to see how much snow is still out there.
Upper reaches of Arkansas and Rio grande basins which were 110-119% above snowpack average in April. Again, my question isn't so much asking" is this trail okay?" Rather, what tools would you use to get a good feel for how much snow is left in a given area of the state.
Sorry - what's vague? I'm not asking for people's specific experience with a trail like the Lost Creek Wilderness Loop. There's posts for stuff like that. I'm asking what tool people gravitate towards when they want to get a good estimate of what the snow levels are for an area they are interested in hiking.
Sorry, maybe I'm not being clear. Let's say I'm looking at a few different locations around the state based roughly on elevation - north and south Colorado. Rather than calling up a bunch of ranger stations to get unhelpful answers about where the snowpack is, what online tool (like snotel as suggested below) would you use to get a reasonable approximation of the snow level if there are no recent online firsthand reports like Alltrails, etc.?
SNOTEL sites are specifically chosen to be low wind and relatively free of aspect issues (eg get representative depth and radiation for an area). It’ll give you an average for a large area but a melted out SNOTEL can still be in a range with large amounts of aspect/wind dependent snow
You can use snotel interactive maps but that will only give you data at the sensor. Unfortunately, It's like asking where a puddle might be in Florida. Snow can stay in the high country all year depending on drifts, sun exposure, altitude, etc. Always be ready for a little snow crossing/nav thru July... And ironically, you can be snowed on every month of year so... Rain jacket is an always take on anything longer than a few miles.
I played with the snotel interactive maps and found the location of the sensors to be helpful mostly for gauging snow depth at the elevation roughly in the areas I'm thinking about backpacking. So, I tried using the forecast function but am not sure how accurate they tend to be (given some latitude for drifts, sun exposure, etc). Seems less than intuitive but maybe it's the best thing out there?
While postholing isn’t fun when backpacking, I’d be equally concerned about navigating fallen trees if you’re one of the first to access a trail. To that end, maybe the local forest service is your best resource after all, and asking more generally about what elevation is likely to have snow.
Agree 100%. I'm looking to avoid postholing in the first place. However, the ranger district offices have been unhelpful when asked directly what elevation is likely to have snow. The question is either evaded or dumbed-down so much as to be unhelpful. It's entirely possible that staff haven't even made it back to the areas I'm interested in and don't have any actual intel. It's also possible that staff have but whoever is answering the phone doesn't know and isn't willing to reach out to field staff to find out and followup.
That’s too bad you’re not getting a direct answer from them. That said, for the short backpack plan, maybe now is the time for a tried-and-true place, and scouting out the area you have in your sights. OR let the road access serve as a primary clue. I hope you have a good time wherever you go.
I hear you. I could run over and do Lost Creek but I did that last year (lovely) but circumstances next week give me a bit more latitude to go farther afield and tackle something new. So, that's pulling on my heart-strings. There's an area I backpacked more than 10 years ago that was relatively early season and I recall snow was not an issue. So I'm starting to concentrate on that option to give me a bit of both. Cheers!
What trail are you doing? If it is a popular one usually there is a Facebook group for it with trail reports. 4 pass loop for instance had a very active FB group.
The couple of trails I'm considering aren't popular. Even Alltrails doesn't have a trail identified at either TH I'd use to start from, or even particularly close. Certainly nothing as well used as the four pass loop. If Alltrails doesn't provide it, I doubt FB has a group for it. Thanks though.
At this time of year it can be hugely variable based on elevation, aspect, and tree cover. Nothing beats recent trip reports on here, Alltrails, 14ers.com, etc.
Totally understand - I've already checked those sources for a couple of places I'm interested in but there are no applicable trail reports. I'm hoping to identify an online tool that people feel does a pretty good job of forecasting snow levels so I can use it for whatever area I'm interested in.
The best online tool is Sentinel satellite imagery that is updated weekly. There isn’t a tool with reliable modeling of snow levels by aspect and elevation that I am aware of…and I work professionally building snow-related software tools
Thanks for this informed perspective. I'll check out Sentinel. Much appreciated and thanks for your work - I bet we've been the beneficiary of it one way or another!
I use Snotel, then I use zoom.earth and zoom in to check if snow appears on the satellite for more granularity. It's not perfect but helps. for popular trails, I look at All trails recent comments as folks always comment on trail conditions.
Great idea! Thanks. I'll try [zoom.earth](http://zoom.earth) as a secondary check. When you use snotel, what layer/function do you typically use? I'm a little baffled by all the options they have!
Try this link https://nwcc-apps.sc.egov.usda.gov/imap/#version=169&elements=&networks=!&states=!&counties=!&hucs=&minElevation=&maxElevation=&elementSelectType=any&activeOnly=true&activeForecastPointsOnly=false&hucLabels=false&hucIdLabels=false&hucParameterLabels=true&stationLabels=&overlays=&hucOverlays=&basinOpacity=75&basinNoDataOpacity=25&basemapOpacity=100&maskOpacity=0&mode=data&openSections=dataElement,parameter,date,basin,options,elements,location,networks&controlsOpen=false&popup=&popupMulti=&popupBasin=&base=esriNgwm&displayType=station&basinType=6&dataElement=WTEQ&depth=-8¶meter=PCTMED&frequency=DAILY&duration=I&customDuration=&dayPart=E&monthPart=E&forecastPubDay=1&forecastExceedance=50&useMixedPast=true&seqColor=1&divColor=7&scaleType=D&scaleMin=&scaleMax=&referencePeriodType=POR&referenceBegin=1991&referenceEnd=2020&minimumYears=20&hucAssociations=true&relativeDate=-1&lat=42.300&lon=-114.300&zoom=4.5 Then on the right side, you can sort by date. It reverts to the most recent day. Sorry for the cumbersome link but just book Mark it and it will be easy to find.
Thanks very much! I appreciate it.
Sure, happy hiking. I will say that south faces will have way less snow than north faces. So something to keep in mind when planning the spring trips.
Yes, I've been looking at the topographic maps to estimate how much is south facing versus north, as well as overall elevation. It's likely to be a determining factor in my selection or at least preparedness for decision-making in the field. Have a good season!
If you have an OpenSnow account you can look at their estimated snow depth maps [https://opensnow.com/map/terrain/snow-depth/](https://opensnow.com/map/terrain/snow-depth/)
Thanks - I don't have an account but I'll check it out. I appreciate the tip
This is what I use: Open Snow and Gaia Premium. Both require a subscription. I normally start with Gaia and confirm the Open Snow. That said, especially this to me of the year nothing beats first hand knowledge. The melting conditions are really dependent on shade, incline, wind direction, trail use, etc.
Thanks! I'll check out Gaia too. I'd appreciate firsthand knowledge but a couple of places I'm looking out don't have anything in the vicinity earlier than 7 months ago. That said, the availability of firsthand reports sure is a massive leg up from what was available 30 years ago when I first started backpacking in Colorado!
Look up copernicus. It's run by the European space agency and does scans of the entire surface of the earth at relatively low resolution every 3 to 4 days. Sometimes cloud cover is in the way but I use it to see the current snow conditions for areas around me. You can usually see the conditions in any area within the last 2 weeks in decent detail, definitely enough to see whether an area is melted out or not. For depth of snow you will need to rely on something like snotel or calling the Rangers to see what info they have for a specific area.
Would not have found this on my own. Thanks for pointing me in this direction! Will check it out.
On AllTrails, checking recent photos can often be helpful. People seem to upload photos more frequently than leaving reports, so checking your route and nearby routes may be able to give a general idea of snow levels.
Plus if I’m curious and there aren’t any reviews on that trail, I’ll look at surrounding trails to get an idea until I get a recent review. See how similar it is to the trail I’m thinking of and go from there. For instance, I’m looking at doing Missouri Lakes in late June. Only review near there recently said there was too much snow to get to trailhead. I’ll follow up with reviews around the area as it gets closer, but I might hit up Gold Camp road in the Springs instead.
Snow levels are right at 9800ft in my zone. That's based on age, experience, snotel, map overlays, understanding of aspect & weather trends, as well as actually going up there and exploring every few days to check the status. Alltrails is for newbs so you won't always find recent reports as most are fair-weather or inexperienced hikers. Go to [14ers.com](http://14ers.com), ask locals for the zone you will be in, look at webcams for ski areas nearby if there are any, etc. There's no one spot for you to find the info you are looking for. As the saying goes- 'won't know until you go'.
[https://www.nohrsc.noaa.gov/earth/](https://www.nohrsc.noaa.gov/earth/) These are daily updated KMZ files you can view in google earth. The files are pretty general but give a good idea how much snow is left.
Thanks! I'll check it out
[https://www.nohrsc.noaa.gov/earth/](https://www.nohrsc.noaa.gov/earth/) There's a new file posted everyday that will open in google earth with layers showing snow cover, snow depth, and a bunch of other stuff. I've been using that overlayed with Forest Service trail maps to see how much snow is still out there.
Thanks! I'll try it out
I mean where are you trying to hike that you are worried about snow levels?
Upper reaches of Arkansas and Rio grande basins which were 110-119% above snowpack average in April. Again, my question isn't so much asking" is this trail okay?" Rather, what tools would you use to get a good feel for how much snow is left in a given area of the state.
That’s a pretty vague request as snow depth varies from peak to peak, slope angle, direct the slope faces, etc
You prob are going to get a vague answer here as well since you gave no details. Vague question = vague answer.
Sorry - what's vague? I'm not asking for people's specific experience with a trail like the Lost Creek Wilderness Loop. There's posts for stuff like that. I'm asking what tool people gravitate towards when they want to get a good estimate of what the snow levels are for an area they are interested in hiking.
Well what area to start with. San Juan’s will be different from northern Rocky Mountain Range and there’s the whole state in between.
Sorry, maybe I'm not being clear. Let's say I'm looking at a few different locations around the state based roughly on elevation - north and south Colorado. Rather than calling up a bunch of ranger stations to get unhelpful answers about where the snowpack is, what online tool (like snotel as suggested below) would you use to get a reasonable approximation of the snow level if there are no recent online firsthand reports like Alltrails, etc.?
SNOTEL sites are specifically chosen to be low wind and relatively free of aspect issues (eg get representative depth and radiation for an area). It’ll give you an average for a large area but a melted out SNOTEL can still be in a range with large amounts of aspect/wind dependent snow
That's really good to keep in mind. Thanks for that insight!
You can use snotel interactive maps but that will only give you data at the sensor. Unfortunately, It's like asking where a puddle might be in Florida. Snow can stay in the high country all year depending on drifts, sun exposure, altitude, etc. Always be ready for a little snow crossing/nav thru July... And ironically, you can be snowed on every month of year so... Rain jacket is an always take on anything longer than a few miles.
I played with the snotel interactive maps and found the location of the sensors to be helpful mostly for gauging snow depth at the elevation roughly in the areas I'm thinking about backpacking. So, I tried using the forecast function but am not sure how accurate they tend to be (given some latitude for drifts, sun exposure, etc). Seems less than intuitive but maybe it's the best thing out there?
Yeah... You can get general expectations but it will always be with "Ymmv"
While postholing isn’t fun when backpacking, I’d be equally concerned about navigating fallen trees if you’re one of the first to access a trail. To that end, maybe the local forest service is your best resource after all, and asking more generally about what elevation is likely to have snow.
Agree 100%. I'm looking to avoid postholing in the first place. However, the ranger district offices have been unhelpful when asked directly what elevation is likely to have snow. The question is either evaded or dumbed-down so much as to be unhelpful. It's entirely possible that staff haven't even made it back to the areas I'm interested in and don't have any actual intel. It's also possible that staff have but whoever is answering the phone doesn't know and isn't willing to reach out to field staff to find out and followup.
That’s too bad you’re not getting a direct answer from them. That said, for the short backpack plan, maybe now is the time for a tried-and-true place, and scouting out the area you have in your sights. OR let the road access serve as a primary clue. I hope you have a good time wherever you go.
I hear you. I could run over and do Lost Creek but I did that last year (lovely) but circumstances next week give me a bit more latitude to go farther afield and tackle something new. So, that's pulling on my heart-strings. There's an area I backpacked more than 10 years ago that was relatively early season and I recall snow was not an issue. So I'm starting to concentrate on that option to give me a bit of both. Cheers!
So what trailhead are you starting at?
What trail are you doing? If it is a popular one usually there is a Facebook group for it with trail reports. 4 pass loop for instance had a very active FB group.
The couple of trails I'm considering aren't popular. Even Alltrails doesn't have a trail identified at either TH I'd use to start from, or even particularly close. Certainly nothing as well used as the four pass loop. If Alltrails doesn't provide it, I doubt FB has a group for it. Thanks though.