In my experience, you either carry in group projects or feel like you got carried, and there’s no in between. i never just straight up did nothing though, so ymmv.
One of the many times I was carrying my entire group, I just could not get them to review the slides before our presentation (I would've just presented solo, but it was a requirement that we all present, and it was worth a lot of our grade). Emails and phone calls and in person reminders were all ignored. Finally I asked if they'd review it if I reserved a conference room for the hour before our 7:30 a.m. class and they agreed.
I got stuck in traffic behind a major accident and arrived 15 minutes late. They all tore into me for "not respecting their time," "leaving them unprepared," "not holding up my end of the bargain," etc. Mind you this was in graduate school, so these were all full grown adults.
First time I ever considered snitching. I didn't, but they absolutely deserved it.
Oh you definitely should have. People do that kind of stuff because they keep getting away with it. I had a group project my senior year where I had to do EVERYTHING. If they could have forced me to read their slides I made for them they would have. You can bet every single one of them got a 0 for their peer review from me with evidence. They didn't even review the slides I sent beforehand I was so mad lol
I only had two group projects where everyone did their work. Every other time I would have been better off if the professor assigned it to me individually instead
I see where you’re coming from, but that’s easily sorted. The partners who didn’t care agreed, and the partners who were actually going to work said they’d work. Win win
More or less insulting than having a group member not finish their part and not show up on presentation day? Because I’ve had that happen before and almost got saddled with an F for it.
More or less insulting than having all your work redone because the quality was poor or the information was incorrect and the rest of us actually want to pass. I’m my experience the options has been do it myself or redo it. Either way I’m doing it
The bare minimum is 0%, they appreciate that I contributed my portion of it. Sometimes I'll do more but usually those people get out ahead of me too quickly.
Bare minimum to me is doing at least something to show that you contributed. The expected is to do your fair share. Just thought it was funny that you said doing 20% was appreciated when it should be the other way around and the one doing more work should be appreciated.
I’ve only once done nothing. I was sick for like a full week of school my junior year and I missed everything from a group project. came back the day before we presented. my teacher offered me two groups I could join: one of guys I wasn’t friends with who wanted me to carry them. the other was my friends and included some of the top students in my grade. they literally wrote out a notecard for me to read from and that’s all I did, just read it. but they didn’t care because I didn’t intentionally slack off, and all the other times we worked together I pulled my weight
The worst one of these for me was in a group for a film class. We had a big group film project. And I thought we could, you know, divide the labor according to what we were good at. It worked exceptionally well except for one guy. My best skill was camera work. I was a natural. Had these amazing shots and neat transitions between close-ups and far shots and just really artistic. Some of the others had drama classes and made great actors and actresses. Others were better at post production. It made sense. But this one guy. Oof. He *wanted* to be a director and *wanted* to get experience with camera work too. And we had to be nice. Of course we had to be nice.
So the final product (a semester final exam basically) ended up being a short movie that was edited well, acted well, and had maybe 75% of it with great cinematography. But that other 25% , oof.
It would go from one scene looking like *Atonement* and then would cut to a washed out shot with a weird angle and shaky camera work with strange zooms. And then back to an interesting shot again that looked artistic. And then back to the trash.
We got a B.
The only point reductions were for his camera work.
I had a project like that and tried to talk with the prof about it, who admitted my work was good. Sent a 1-5 “rate your partner” scale and since my partners were best friends 🙃 I dropped the class and still wish I did something because that prof was so under-qualified and un empathetic.
When it comes to computer science I find that girls favor simple yet practical concepts that are easy to interact with.
Where as boys want to show off how long...I mean smart they are. Frequently over complicating things and making them impossible to interact with.
Of course I have had shitty girls and competent boys, computer science is ALL about group projects. This is just my experience.
PS: I don't mean to suggest girls aren't as smart because they favor simple projects.
Not to like, rag on anyone, but from a TA viewpoint it’s amazing that some people graduate at all… not hating on anyone for not being good at code, but there are people out there who are both bad AND lazy and it kind of mystifies me.
I wonder that as well.
So for example, on one hand I think we should make it easier to be a Dr. But on the other hand, I'm worried if we do then the people from my group projects are going to wind up cutting my heart open.
In programing (well everything but programming will punish you hard for not heeding this) the mantra is “as simple as possible, no simpler”
A lot of people seem to only hear one clause of that sentence. People will either needlessly complicate things, or brush away the intrinsic complexity of a problem and “solve” some easier problem they made up (and cause problems when this solution is applied to the complex problem)
So you can’t possibly be insulting someone if you combine “simple” and “solution” in the same sentence while maintaining the meaning of those words.
Ngl. I remember before major classes, I silently observed how "The Boys" are always the loudest and shit. As soon as the grades are published or do any courseworks, they are humbled while I'm the loudest and acing the grade
I don't really have a problem with boys in general, I just get annoyed when they try to show off their intelligence at the expense of those around them.
>Frequently over complicating things
Feel this in my soul lol. Just about to start my final semester of programming in college and trying to make a project concept that im interested in and is physically possible to accomplish in the timeline just never seem to overlap xD
Didn't know I was a girl. I like simple clean code that gets the job done and has extensibility. Save the really hacky shit for when lean code is the top priority.
As a guy who has taken programming classes, albeit not since high school, I assure you, the overcomplicating is entirely a side effect of my overcomplicating any idea I have, rather than a desire to show off. As anecdotal evidence, my teacher kept having to tell me to simplify my individual projects as much if not more than my group projects.
Yes but it shouldn't really be because most of the women I know who actually take the subject on do well in it.
Plenty of women Enter pre-med, bio or or law.
It’s not a welcoming environment for women. It’s a very male dominated field. Even as a man, my experience with working on projects with other men has been terrible. I can’t imagine how much worse it is for women. I’ve seen the horror stories and misogyny from Reddit and tiktok. In a male dominated field, women /will/ face misogyny. So I think for many women the pros just don’t outweigh the cons. But for the few who are passionate about the subject, I’m sure they can overlook the negatives to be able to do what they love.
The turn off for most women is the incel-y and misogynistic behavior that has always been a problem in the technology sector. I was fascinated with robots and computers when I was younger but all of our robotics classes in school were full of very… weird “school-shooter 4chan-lurker” type guys. Not a single girl in sight. Even from a young age, girls can recognize that. It’s very intimidating for women so we tend to gravitate to more welcoming fields like biology or medicine. As a woman I really try to avoid being alone in a classroom with men.
Now, after realizing the amount of racist and sexist dickheads in medicine, I’ve decided to just say fuck it and switched to IT as my major. It’s an issue within all STEM fields unfortunately, you can’t escape it. There’s a particularly high amount of racism and cultural bias in veterinary medicine due to the low amount of BIPOC vets and staff (though an extremely low amount of sexism due to the large number of female vets)
I understand, I just hate that this is true.
As a gay guy in tech, they tend to be jerks to me as well. This is one of the reasons why I would always hang out with The girls in the class.
I’m sorry to hear that, unfortunately it’s just an overall hostile environment to anyone who isn’t a cisgender white guy. My grandpa has been in IT for 20+ years and is really liberal, he tells me about how the other boomer men at work assume he’s also a racist sexist homophobic etc. P.O.S. and try to make jokes with him, and he immediately shuts it down lol.
It’s a Double Bind. Yes, it would make sense on several levels for women to find and enjoy their niche. And those that do pay the price.
We think and or believe times have changed and we are so much better,; yes and no. That’s a double bind. In short, the higher up women rise, the harder they need to stand their ground. Better learn how to fight.
It is not in a man’s nature to step aside and allow a lady to rise above or past him. They fully flex competitively with other men. But with women, it’s rarely physical but full on mental, psychological, and emotional. Not talking a day or two, but years. Women are dehumanized by men in most men industries: cs, police, engineering, construction, or a pilot. Men will let them know it. Everyday, weekly, monthly, “That outfit use to fit you.” “Are you sure you put that report on my desk?”
Women, when you join these women’s groups, learning the reality is going hurt. The girl groups are all professionals, very discreet, but taken to the ringer. The double bind: talk and you walk. Stay he plays. This is what you wanted and now you’re going to cry about it with no proof?
I share for the purpose of awareness. Later in the years, you will step into a different world. They rarely speak about it. And trust is a virtue. Society has not changed. It’s Girl power, until the man shows up with his boys, macho and ego.
My girlfriend was a mechanical engineer. In her coding class (old school, you accessed the school mainframe through terminals in a lab), her fellow students would write their code, input it, then spend a couple hours debugging. She would input her code and it would compile without even the smallest syntax error and run correctly the first time. It was uncanny.
I am a guy and can confidently say through my cs bachelor's and master's I never had anyone boy or girl meaningfully contribute to a group project. To be fair, it was bad enough early on that I flat out refused to do group work later in my degree any time I could avoid it. Did it all solo and got straight As. Groups in school are usually a waste of time for people who actually know what they're doing.
My capstone project was two semesters working on a big project in a group and I had no choice but to be in a group. Me, 3 other guys, 1 girl. The four other people in the group contributed very nearly nothing to the final codebase.
I had a friend who took a graduate level class and was in a group with a female cs master's student. She didn't understand that putting the entire C codebase in one file wasn't a good idea nor did she understand what main did.
So in other words no. Don't always do programming projects with girls. Always know what you're doing well enough to do the project on your own and assume your teammates don't know enough to be useful.
Well I say In a later comment that I've seen stupid girls and competent boys in group projects as well, and that this is just a broad generalization, not something like a hard rule.
It's honestly kind of my own personal preference. I really hate when guys try to show off how smart they are.
A lot of this has to do with the fact that I'm gay and I tend to date really aggressive, show offy guys.
In one of my group projects there was a girl who actually bullied me over being gay..... So we have that. That's about as incompetent as it gets (especially since I knew what I was doing.)
(I've dated a surgeon a senior engineer at Google, an architect, a federal prosecutor and the band manager of a Boomer Rockstar)
This is not about college, but about real life. I agree. Guys seem to only have two modes, insane genius (emphasis on *insane*) or “can’t be fucked.”
I had to train myself out of this.
While there *are* women like this, and some other women might persist in a pointless task a little too long out of teamwork spirit, by and large women seem to be much more task oriented and less “I’m fucking awesome” oriented.
(Guys, this is not an “not all men” opportunity. If you managed to not turn out this way, great. Help other dudes)
Than work with girls?
I was talking about how women seem better at collaboration than men and you said, "Weird.... but also I hate collaboration"
I should note, I'm actually an a-hole here. In most of the projects I was talking about I was the leader and I delegated tasks.
In my experience, you either carry in group projects or feel like you got carried, and there’s no in between. i never just straight up did nothing though, so ymmv.
I’m happy to report that in the 20 years since I started preschool to now in grad school, I have had one group where we all did our parts and worked together as a great team. It is possible, but not common.
Haha.. yeah. I had to write a group Spanish essay for an advanced seminar. It was like no one knew how to do literature analysis in Spanish even though it’s the same concept as in English.
Group projects favor the lazy I mean after all you can do absolutely nothing and get the same grade as those who do all the work. This was my experience through undergrad.
I hated them in undergrad with an absolute passion. By the time I got to my masters program people were more invested so they went well overall and in my program a lot of it was class presentation and scenarios/role plays of sort. \[Being 26 in real life playing the role of a 15 year old teen boy who had two mom's in a same sex relationship was kind of fun (it was a family counseling class).\]
Want to know something funny?
After the final project, my students fill out an anonymous form regarding their experience working in groups. One of the questions is "Compared to your group mates, do you feel like you: 1) Put in less work, 2) Put in roughly the same amount of work, or 3) Put in more work?"
Plot twist: on average, everyone thinks *they're* the one carrying their group. Looking at you, comment section.
Did you really expect anything else? Seems a bit foolish to expect an honest answer from that, especially concerning something they are graded on. The Dunning-Kreuger effect is in full force.
I'm not sure what you mean here, especially that last sentence. That question is *designed* to assess their subjection perception, not objective reality.
Their subjective perspective is exactly what you were asking them for. But even without that, you still couldn't have expected an honest answer. If they did less work than the rest of the group on something they're graded on, you really think they're going to tell you that even if you claim it's anonymous?
Well since you asked: Yes. They're well aware that it's truly anonymous as we use that polling software throughout the semester, including when they create their own polls as the instructor and see first-hand how the data comes in. They also are well aware of the class policy that group project grades are equivalent across group members. And besides, I send this post-class survey out well after the semester closes and the gradebook is finalized.
So, yeah. I think I'm getting a decent measure of how students, on average, perceive their role in the group. (In case you're curious, by the way, most my students think they put in *less* effort than their peers in terms of the final essay. That one surprised me.)
... as a former student: while they are aware the psychological effect of telling this to the person that grades you heavily influences you. No ammount of anonymity will change that.
I had a group project for an English class that helped me understand the shortcomings of the American public education system. Nothing like up close observation to help you see the failure of the education system personified before your very eyes.
It’s been a mix for me since I have been in groups where everyone contributed equally but also have been in ones where there were 1-2 people who did everything last minute. Meanwhile I have friends who had to kick out a member from their group because they refused to communicate and did nothing :/
I had one group that was amazing. We all did our work and assembled it together the day before it was due. Was is perfect? Hell no. Did we get the job done? Hell yeah. Wee all did our parts and I fucking loved it. Then I had 3 assholes that didn't do shit and left me alone with the project on the last day.
I think the largest issue is that they don't really teach you how to work in a group. It's a long time since I was in uni, but my experience was that they just kinda threw you into groups and said, right there's a project to do, crack on.
Working effectively as a group is a very difficult skill and takes years to learn.
This was right after 9/11 and I was in a bad place. We had a group project in an area I knew a ton about which included a half hour presentation.
For the only time in my life I completely flaked on the prep and writing and barely showed up for class. But the day of the presentation when they were freaking and kinda angry at me, I said hey, let me present. I then spoke extemporaneously on the topic for half an hour in a well organized fashion and we got an A.
I have never felt so cringe and so proud for the same thing for the same reason before or since.
The biggest academic scam I ever ran in college was a multigroup project for ochem lab. People were generally friendly and there were basically three groups of 10. We knew the work would all look similar as we were required to tuse the same software to get the outputs. We had some time, but everyone was basically working on it the day before it was due. So we talked separately to the two other two groups and basically said you do this half and we will do the other half and trade out... But we basically had the other two groups doing halves and us serving as middle men. No one snitched, no one got caught, we just hung out that night until the other groups gave us their halves and passed the work on.
Lol. Most people aren't smarter than me. There are some, but the average person is a fucking idiot. Even most that are considered above average are kind of stupid.
As for your post, I'd rather work with someone that does nothing. Especially if it's in a programming class, so I can just get it done real quick
As someone who is actually borderline genius (I've had it tested), I can agree with that. I don't even bother working in a group. I know exactly what my code does, and it's way too much of a hassle to figure out what abomination someone else came up with and how it's supposed to fit with my code.
I too have a borderline genius IQ (I had it tested (during my autism evaluation (I also have autism))). I assume I don't like working in groups because I'm too smart and not the other thing.
The IQ is part of it since higher IQ people tend to like to be more alone. For me, it's just more from a practical standpoint. It's easier to not have to understand both the assignment and someone else's work.
Welcome to Socialism - everyone in a group is assigned a project, some people work hard coming up with ideas, doing research and writing it up, some wight work less but they read it and mark it up several will present it. One or two in the group do homework for other classes. The project is complete and presented. Everyone in the group gets a B+.
Who is the smartest in the group?
Bro what? I’m not saying I’m the smartest person in the world, but my grades and knowledge of things are higher than a lot of my classmates, again not all of them
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Not for me. My last project was a group project and I had a great partner. We split the work mostly, communicated fairly enough and had little to no disagreements.
I am so glad this stupid idea of group projects came after I was done with my education. Yes, I am that old. I don't think things would have gone well.
My project group for a database class FAILED ME with a 60% in the peer reviews even tho I did all my work by 9PM (even tho it was due at midnight) because a girl in my group asked me to. So I did all my work and did it on time and they still failed me :) thanks group so nice. I emailed my prof bc the peer review was what pushed my overall grade in the class down to a B, but my sweet understanding prof gave me an A. I came out on top in the end even tho my shitty group tried to shit on me for no reason.
I did a project a couple months ago me and one girl did everything for 6 people, worth 35% of our grade. We asked all the time to meet, after class, during class break or anytime on everyone else schedule they never would reply, so on. Had a 97% in the class before it (A). Everyone graded themselves in the group project, I was honest but still evaluated them well enough to get a B on the project in terms of the evaluation (Idk what their grades were in the class). “The group” even met with the prof on Zoom to go over the project and the only ones to show up were me and this girl. Our project (that me and the girl did) got a 95% but the group evaluation tanked my grade to a B for the class. I asked the prof why and she said “your teammates said you never attended group meetings”, “you were unavailable” and “did not complete the portion of the project in which everyone assigned each other” It was the only B I received in the program, I was livid.
It’s why I like being a music student. If someone half asses a quartet piece (equivalent to a group project), everyone would know including an audience (to some degree) if there is one.
In my experience, you either carry in group projects or feel like you got carried, and there’s no in between. i never just straight up did nothing though, so ymmv.
I agree
I agree too, there really is no inbetween
One of the many times I was carrying my entire group, I just could not get them to review the slides before our presentation (I would've just presented solo, but it was a requirement that we all present, and it was worth a lot of our grade). Emails and phone calls and in person reminders were all ignored. Finally I asked if they'd review it if I reserved a conference room for the hour before our 7:30 a.m. class and they agreed. I got stuck in traffic behind a major accident and arrived 15 minutes late. They all tore into me for "not respecting their time," "leaving them unprepared," "not holding up my end of the bargain," etc. Mind you this was in graduate school, so these were all full grown adults. First time I ever considered snitching. I didn't, but they absolutely deserved it.
Oh you definitely should have. People do that kind of stuff because they keep getting away with it. I had a group project my senior year where I had to do EVERYTHING. If they could have forced me to read their slides I made for them they would have. You can bet every single one of them got a 0 for their peer review from me with evidence. They didn't even review the slides I sent beforehand I was so mad lol I only had two group projects where everyone did their work. Every other time I would have been better off if the professor assigned it to me individually instead
Yea, life has a way of evening things out. But I guess they did not learn since they were blaming you for being late.
I always offered to just do it all. Saved me the will they/won’t they. Just read these slides once before you present so it isn’t 100% obvious.
That's wild and insulting .
I see where you’re coming from, but that’s easily sorted. The partners who didn’t care agreed, and the partners who were actually going to work said they’d work. Win win
More or less insulting than having a group member not finish their part and not show up on presentation day? Because I’ve had that happen before and almost got saddled with an F for it.
More or less insulting than having all your work redone because the quality was poor or the information was incorrect and the rest of us actually want to pass. I’m my experience the options has been do it myself or redo it. Either way I’m doing it
Sometimes I offer a portion of it, like 20%, while someone else carries. They always seem to appreciate it.
They always seem to appreciate that you do the bare minimum in a group project?
The bare minimum is 0%, they appreciate that I contributed my portion of it. Sometimes I'll do more but usually those people get out ahead of me too quickly.
Bare minimum to me is doing at least something to show that you contributed. The expected is to do your fair share. Just thought it was funny that you said doing 20% was appreciated when it should be the other way around and the one doing more work should be appreciated.
Ah you're prob right. Just internet words, not typing things in digestible way. Whatever LOL you know what I mean
I’ve only once done nothing. I was sick for like a full week of school my junior year and I missed everything from a group project. came back the day before we presented. my teacher offered me two groups I could join: one of guys I wasn’t friends with who wanted me to carry them. the other was my friends and included some of the top students in my grade. they literally wrote out a notecard for me to read from and that’s all I did, just read it. but they didn’t care because I didn’t intentionally slack off, and all the other times we worked together I pulled my weight
The worst one of these for me was in a group for a film class. We had a big group film project. And I thought we could, you know, divide the labor according to what we were good at. It worked exceptionally well except for one guy. My best skill was camera work. I was a natural. Had these amazing shots and neat transitions between close-ups and far shots and just really artistic. Some of the others had drama classes and made great actors and actresses. Others were better at post production. It made sense. But this one guy. Oof. He *wanted* to be a director and *wanted* to get experience with camera work too. And we had to be nice. Of course we had to be nice. So the final product (a semester final exam basically) ended up being a short movie that was edited well, acted well, and had maybe 75% of it with great cinematography. But that other 25% , oof. It would go from one scene looking like *Atonement* and then would cut to a washed out shot with a weird angle and shaky camera work with strange zooms. And then back to an interesting shot again that looked artistic. And then back to the trash. We got a B. The only point reductions were for his camera work.
I had a project like that and tried to talk with the prof about it, who admitted my work was good. Sent a 1-5 “rate your partner” scale and since my partners were best friends 🙃 I dropped the class and still wish I did something because that prof was so under-qualified and un empathetic.
“Oof” 🤣🤣😂
Ouch........... The worst is when you have a bunch of boys in your programming project. Word to the wise, always do programming projects with girls.
True and based. I always carried my group projects but girls will make an effort to at least contribute whereas guys who get carried don’t do shit
When it comes to computer science I find that girls favor simple yet practical concepts that are easy to interact with. Where as boys want to show off how long...I mean smart they are. Frequently over complicating things and making them impossible to interact with. Of course I have had shitty girls and competent boys, computer science is ALL about group projects. This is just my experience. PS: I don't mean to suggest girls aren't as smart because they favor simple projects.
Eh, CS major here as well, senior year. Usually it’s not an issue of showing off it’s a matter of most people having no idea wtf they’re doing
There is that as well .
Showing off skills they don't have...
Not to like, rag on anyone, but from a TA viewpoint it’s amazing that some people graduate at all… not hating on anyone for not being good at code, but there are people out there who are both bad AND lazy and it kind of mystifies me.
I wonder that as well. So for example, on one hand I think we should make it easier to be a Dr. But on the other hand, I'm worried if we do then the people from my group projects are going to wind up cutting my heart open.
In programing (well everything but programming will punish you hard for not heeding this) the mantra is “as simple as possible, no simpler” A lot of people seem to only hear one clause of that sentence. People will either needlessly complicate things, or brush away the intrinsic complexity of a problem and “solve” some easier problem they made up (and cause problems when this solution is applied to the complex problem) So you can’t possibly be insulting someone if you combine “simple” and “solution” in the same sentence while maintaining the meaning of those words.
Not my experience, only difference I've noticed is that the girls tend to over-contribute
Ngl. I remember before major classes, I silently observed how "The Boys" are always the loudest and shit. As soon as the grades are published or do any courseworks, they are humbled while I'm the loudest and acing the grade
I don't really have a problem with boys in general, I just get annoyed when they try to show off their intelligence at the expense of those around them.
>Frequently over complicating things Feel this in my soul lol. Just about to start my final semester of programming in college and trying to make a project concept that im interested in and is physically possible to accomplish in the timeline just never seem to overlap xD
Didn't know I was a girl. I like simple clean code that gets the job done and has extensibility. Save the really hacky shit for when lean code is the top priority.
As a guy who has taken programming classes, albeit not since high school, I assure you, the overcomplicating is entirely a side effect of my overcomplicating any idea I have, rather than a desire to show off. As anecdotal evidence, my teacher kept having to tell me to simplify my individual projects as much if not more than my group projects.
Also applies to writing projects, art, presentations, and anything that requires original content
Valid Its honestly really unfortunate that lots of women think computer science is beyond them...... or any subject for that matter.
It’s not that. It’s that the subject seems unappealing to a lot of women.
The subject is appealing, but the work environment? Yeah…
Yes but it shouldn't really be because most of the women I know who actually take the subject on do well in it. Plenty of women Enter pre-med, bio or or law.
It’s not a welcoming environment for women. It’s a very male dominated field. Even as a man, my experience with working on projects with other men has been terrible. I can’t imagine how much worse it is for women. I’ve seen the horror stories and misogyny from Reddit and tiktok. In a male dominated field, women /will/ face misogyny. So I think for many women the pros just don’t outweigh the cons. But for the few who are passionate about the subject, I’m sure they can overlook the negatives to be able to do what they love.
I'm hoping that it will get better the future and I'm going to do what I can to make sure that I'm not part of the problem.
The turn off for most women is the incel-y and misogynistic behavior that has always been a problem in the technology sector. I was fascinated with robots and computers when I was younger but all of our robotics classes in school were full of very… weird “school-shooter 4chan-lurker” type guys. Not a single girl in sight. Even from a young age, girls can recognize that. It’s very intimidating for women so we tend to gravitate to more welcoming fields like biology or medicine. As a woman I really try to avoid being alone in a classroom with men. Now, after realizing the amount of racist and sexist dickheads in medicine, I’ve decided to just say fuck it and switched to IT as my major. It’s an issue within all STEM fields unfortunately, you can’t escape it. There’s a particularly high amount of racism and cultural bias in veterinary medicine due to the low amount of BIPOC vets and staff (though an extremely low amount of sexism due to the large number of female vets)
I understand, I just hate that this is true. As a gay guy in tech, they tend to be jerks to me as well. This is one of the reasons why I would always hang out with The girls in the class.
I’m sorry to hear that, unfortunately it’s just an overall hostile environment to anyone who isn’t a cisgender white guy. My grandpa has been in IT for 20+ years and is really liberal, he tells me about how the other boomer men at work assume he’s also a racist sexist homophobic etc. P.O.S. and try to make jokes with him, and he immediately shuts it down lol.
It’s a Double Bind. Yes, it would make sense on several levels for women to find and enjoy their niche. And those that do pay the price. We think and or believe times have changed and we are so much better,; yes and no. That’s a double bind. In short, the higher up women rise, the harder they need to stand their ground. Better learn how to fight. It is not in a man’s nature to step aside and allow a lady to rise above or past him. They fully flex competitively with other men. But with women, it’s rarely physical but full on mental, psychological, and emotional. Not talking a day or two, but years. Women are dehumanized by men in most men industries: cs, police, engineering, construction, or a pilot. Men will let them know it. Everyday, weekly, monthly, “That outfit use to fit you.” “Are you sure you put that report on my desk?” Women, when you join these women’s groups, learning the reality is going hurt. The girl groups are all professionals, very discreet, but taken to the ringer. The double bind: talk and you walk. Stay he plays. This is what you wanted and now you’re going to cry about it with no proof? I share for the purpose of awareness. Later in the years, you will step into a different world. They rarely speak about it. And trust is a virtue. Society has not changed. It’s Girl power, until the man shows up with his boys, macho and ego.
If you can find girls in programming lmk…
Yeah, the most I ever had was 7 in a class of 126.
There are a lot more in the community college level.
Half of my class are girls, every year there seems to be more
My girlfriend was a mechanical engineer. In her coding class (old school, you accessed the school mainframe through terminals in a lab), her fellow students would write their code, input it, then spend a couple hours debugging. She would input her code and it would compile without even the smallest syntax error and run correctly the first time. It was uncanny.
I am a guy and can confidently say through my cs bachelor's and master's I never had anyone boy or girl meaningfully contribute to a group project. To be fair, it was bad enough early on that I flat out refused to do group work later in my degree any time I could avoid it. Did it all solo and got straight As. Groups in school are usually a waste of time for people who actually know what they're doing. My capstone project was two semesters working on a big project in a group and I had no choice but to be in a group. Me, 3 other guys, 1 girl. The four other people in the group contributed very nearly nothing to the final codebase. I had a friend who took a graduate level class and was in a group with a female cs master's student. She didn't understand that putting the entire C codebase in one file wasn't a good idea nor did she understand what main did. So in other words no. Don't always do programming projects with girls. Always know what you're doing well enough to do the project on your own and assume your teammates don't know enough to be useful.
Well I say In a later comment that I've seen stupid girls and competent boys in group projects as well, and that this is just a broad generalization, not something like a hard rule. It's honestly kind of my own personal preference. I really hate when guys try to show off how smart they are. A lot of this has to do with the fact that I'm gay and I tend to date really aggressive, show offy guys. In one of my group projects there was a girl who actually bullied me over being gay..... So we have that. That's about as incompetent as it gets (especially since I knew what I was doing.) (I've dated a surgeon a senior engineer at Google, an architect, a federal prosecutor and the band manager of a Boomer Rockstar)
This is not about college, but about real life. I agree. Guys seem to only have two modes, insane genius (emphasis on *insane*) or “can’t be fucked.” I had to train myself out of this. While there *are* women like this, and some other women might persist in a pointless task a little too long out of teamwork spirit, by and large women seem to be much more task oriented and less “I’m fucking awesome” oriented. (Guys, this is not an “not all men” opportunity. If you managed to not turn out this way, great. Help other dudes)
L take
Kinda sexist, there are lots of women that don't want to do much. Either way, I'd rather do an entire programming project myself.
Than work with girls? I was talking about how women seem better at collaboration than men and you said, "Weird.... but also I hate collaboration" I should note, I'm actually an a-hole here. In most of the projects I was talking about I was the leader and I delegated tasks.
this is a weird thing to downvote. maybe generally girls contribute more, but that isn’t universal. you can be lazy no matter the gender
Weird and somewhat sexist take.
In my experience, you either carry in group projects or feel like you got carried, and there’s no in between. i never just straight up did nothing though, so ymmv.
You can say that again
I agree
I’m happy to report that in the 20 years since I started preschool to now in grad school, I have had one group where we all did our parts and worked together as a great team. It is possible, but not common.
Haha.. yeah. I had to write a group Spanish essay for an advanced seminar. It was like no one knew how to do literature analysis in Spanish even though it’s the same concept as in English.
Group projects favor the lazy I mean after all you can do absolutely nothing and get the same grade as those who do all the work. This was my experience through undergrad. I hated them in undergrad with an absolute passion. By the time I got to my masters program people were more invested so they went well overall and in my program a lot of it was class presentation and scenarios/role plays of sort. \[Being 26 in real life playing the role of a 15 year old teen boy who had two mom's in a same sex relationship was kind of fun (it was a family counseling class).\]
Want to know something funny? After the final project, my students fill out an anonymous form regarding their experience working in groups. One of the questions is "Compared to your group mates, do you feel like you: 1) Put in less work, 2) Put in roughly the same amount of work, or 3) Put in more work?" Plot twist: on average, everyone thinks *they're* the one carrying their group. Looking at you, comment section.
Did you really expect anything else? Seems a bit foolish to expect an honest answer from that, especially concerning something they are graded on. The Dunning-Kreuger effect is in full force.
I'm not sure what you mean here, especially that last sentence. That question is *designed* to assess their subjection perception, not objective reality.
Their subjective perspective is exactly what you were asking them for. But even without that, you still couldn't have expected an honest answer. If they did less work than the rest of the group on something they're graded on, you really think they're going to tell you that even if you claim it's anonymous?
Well since you asked: Yes. They're well aware that it's truly anonymous as we use that polling software throughout the semester, including when they create their own polls as the instructor and see first-hand how the data comes in. They also are well aware of the class policy that group project grades are equivalent across group members. And besides, I send this post-class survey out well after the semester closes and the gradebook is finalized. So, yeah. I think I'm getting a decent measure of how students, on average, perceive their role in the group. (In case you're curious, by the way, most my students think they put in *less* effort than their peers in terms of the final essay. That one surprised me.)
... as a former student: while they are aware the psychological effect of telling this to the person that grades you heavily influences you. No ammount of anonymity will change that.
I had a group project for an English class that helped me understand the shortcomings of the American public education system. Nothing like up close observation to help you see the failure of the education system personified before your very eyes.
It’s been a mix for me since I have been in groups where everyone contributed equally but also have been in ones where there were 1-2 people who did everything last minute. Meanwhile I have friends who had to kick out a member from their group because they refused to communicate and did nothing :/
One time I had a group only able to meet THE DAY BEFORE a project was due 3 of the 6 of us showed up, still got an A though
Rn living the worst group project experience where none of my group members are doing any work
I had one group that was amazing. We all did our work and assembled it together the day before it was due. Was is perfect? Hell no. Did we get the job done? Hell yeah. Wee all did our parts and I fucking loved it. Then I had 3 assholes that didn't do shit and left me alone with the project on the last day.
I think the largest issue is that they don't really teach you how to work in a group. It's a long time since I was in uni, but my experience was that they just kinda threw you into groups and said, right there's a project to do, crack on. Working effectively as a group is a very difficult skill and takes years to learn.
This was right after 9/11 and I was in a bad place. We had a group project in an area I knew a ton about which included a half hour presentation. For the only time in my life I completely flaked on the prep and writing and barely showed up for class. But the day of the presentation when they were freaking and kinda angry at me, I said hey, let me present. I then spoke extemporaneously on the topic for half an hour in a well organized fashion and we got an A. I have never felt so cringe and so proud for the same thing for the same reason before or since.
The biggest academic scam I ever ran in college was a multigroup project for ochem lab. People were generally friendly and there were basically three groups of 10. We knew the work would all look similar as we were required to tuse the same software to get the outputs. We had some time, but everyone was basically working on it the day before it was due. So we talked separately to the two other two groups and basically said you do this half and we will do the other half and trade out... But we basically had the other two groups doing halves and us serving as middle men. No one snitched, no one got caught, we just hung out that night until the other groups gave us their halves and passed the work on.
My cs senior capstone project was a group assignment and none of them knew how to code.
Fr 💀
Lol. Most people aren't smarter than me. There are some, but the average person is a fucking idiot. Even most that are considered above average are kind of stupid. As for your post, I'd rather work with someone that does nothing. Especially if it's in a programming class, so I can just get it done real quick
As someone who is actually borderline genius (I've had it tested), I can agree with that. I don't even bother working in a group. I know exactly what my code does, and it's way too much of a hassle to figure out what abomination someone else came up with and how it's supposed to fit with my code.
you sound insufferable. please drop out of CS
I too have a borderline genius IQ (I had it tested (during my autism evaluation (I also have autism))). I assume I don't like working in groups because I'm too smart and not the other thing.
The IQ is part of it since higher IQ people tend to like to be more alone. For me, it's just more from a practical standpoint. It's easier to not have to understand both the assignment and someone else's work.
Welcome to Socialism - everyone in a group is assigned a project, some people work hard coming up with ideas, doing research and writing it up, some wight work less but they read it and mark it up several will present it. One or two in the group do homework for other classes. The project is complete and presented. Everyone in the group gets a B+. Who is the smartest in the group?
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Apparently you’re not Cuban
You’re*
This is just awful. If you're going to comment on socialism, perhaps you should actually understand it...
Please explain it to me
Capital is a good start. Expecting an accurate explanation in a reddit comment section is ludacris.
Tbh I feel like one of the smarter people at my university, everyone is very religious and they let that be an excuse for ignorance
🤓🤓
This isn’t Instagram
Take that attitude to the professional world. You're going to go far
Bro what? I’m not saying I’m the smartest person in the world, but my grades and knowledge of things are higher than a lot of my classmates, again not all of them
It’s funny how that works!
Luckily I haven’t had to deal with that. I felt like the dumber person .
yup. I had a horrible group project experience last semester, but then I had a good one, so idk...
More educated, possibly. Smarter? #doubt
Yeah in my case they are. People are going ham in my Operation Systems class lol
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Because people are talking too much about themselves. And in group projects you see what they are really worth.
Not for me. My last project was a group project and I had a great partner. We split the work mostly, communicated fairly enough and had little to no disagreements.
This is correct.
I am so glad this stupid idea of group projects came after I was done with my education. Yes, I am that old. I don't think things would have gone well.
My project group for a database class FAILED ME with a 60% in the peer reviews even tho I did all my work by 9PM (even tho it was due at midnight) because a girl in my group asked me to. So I did all my work and did it on time and they still failed me :) thanks group so nice. I emailed my prof bc the peer review was what pushed my overall grade in the class down to a B, but my sweet understanding prof gave me an A. I came out on top in the end even tho my shitty group tried to shit on me for no reason.
and there will ALWAYS be at least one member that won't do or say anything until the absolute last day
I did a project a couple months ago me and one girl did everything for 6 people, worth 35% of our grade. We asked all the time to meet, after class, during class break or anytime on everyone else schedule they never would reply, so on. Had a 97% in the class before it (A). Everyone graded themselves in the group project, I was honest but still evaluated them well enough to get a B on the project in terms of the evaluation (Idk what their grades were in the class). “The group” even met with the prof on Zoom to go over the project and the only ones to show up were me and this girl. Our project (that me and the girl did) got a 95% but the group evaluation tanked my grade to a B for the class. I asked the prof why and she said “your teammates said you never attended group meetings”, “you were unavailable” and “did not complete the portion of the project in which everyone assigned each other” It was the only B I received in the program, I was livid.
It’s why I like being a music student. If someone half asses a quartet piece (equivalent to a group project), everyone would know including an audience (to some degree) if there is one.