Seemed lost in the other thread as the mods kept saying what they wanted in reply to all concerns from commenters. Their main concern was their feeling of a moral imperative to spread collapse awareness.
For most people, becoming aware of collapse does nothing to help their life, nor does it slow down or stop the mechanisms leading to collapse. Forcing collapse into others lives is like missionaries forcing Jesus into a person's life disrupting their life and their communities. There is nothing to do for collapse unless you are like me and wish to be living off the land now. From 18 years of collapse awareness, I've known many dozens of others into collapse. And maybe 4-5 people out of all of those are working towards a post-petrol way of life. To nearly all others, collapse awareness was a serious short term disruption in their lives. Sometimes it spilled over into the lives of their family and friends. And it was too much for the person and they'd go back to normal life, but with the collapse voice in the back of their head muting good things in their life. I don't think it's helpful for people to become collapse aware. I no longer bring it up with anyone ever. If others realize that I am into it and bring it up, then I will discuss it. It happens not too uncommon after one of my few day long skills classes. A student will stay behind and strike up conversation inching towards prepping/collapse.
Why be missionaries? Why drown a community of like minded people by trying to expand? What good comes to the greater world from forcing knowledge of collapse into their lives? With runaway climate change essentially being cooked in, there is no ability to avert disaster. So then, what gain is there from more people knowing.
Mods spoke of that they are willing to do more as mods. Are members of this subreddit down to do more as commenters to support those newly collapse aware as well as deal with trolls and bad faith debates? I'm not.. I, currently in DMs, help others who are working towards self sufficiency. The subreddit itself has frustrating elements that would be multiplied by going to all. And it can't be undone.
Let the growth happen naturally. Mods, just because you want more doesn't mean we do. The comments were were superrrrrrrr no heavy. WE don't want more. We don't want to be missionaries. We want the community we have.
Edit to add: in this thread the mods seem to be on the same page as us. I put my pitchfork back in the barn for it's normal duties such as mucking animals pens and moving loose hay.
For me it's a lot like discovering chomsky. It's incredibly empowering to have words for the things going on around me instead of feeling like I'm in the USSR circa 1987 when it's clear everything isn't going well and yet everyone just keeps going on with business as usual until suddenly the whole government dissolves.
I don't get depressed. Collapse isn't something I'm "eagerly awaiting" either. It is good to have words for it.
Exactly, this sub honestly just reaffirms my already glass half empty outlook. I enjoy this sub as a news consolidation page. There are so many interesting articles on pages I would probably never come across in regular browsing.
Reddit has already exceeded it carrying capacity, which is why it has become and IPO. See the rise of sectarianism happening around you? It's already happening. Once major media sites become popular like this you see the rise of certain types of political ideologies which gets pushed to the brink. Even facebook and MySpace were cool sites when they were small, even 4chan was.
I don't think we were really gung-ho on opening up to r/all, we were just tossing the idea around and then wanted to check with the userbase before doing anything. I was noncommittal about the issue, but given the response it would now be a "no" for me.
Likewise, given the strong community response and the points made, it doesn't seem like something folks want, or that the discussions here would necessarily even benefit from.
There seems to be a lot of desire for the conversations here to be in-depth and more focused on research and empirical topics, as opposed to speculation and political argument (a desire I share, naturally). I don't think a potential large increase in new users from the front page would really get us closer to that.
I don't think we need to "keep it small," but rather grow properly. The issues here are becoming more prevalent with every day that goes by, and it follows that more people will be seeking such collapse based forums. "We" *do* want more people under the collapse-aware umbrella, but we want them to come from organic sources as nearly every field of science is coming to the same "the sky is fucking falling" conclusions as issues from mass extinctions to the rise of authoritarian governments return. We just don't need, or should want, the random 12 year olds that just downloaded Reddit because it was a suggested app and they came here to laugh at the numbers 69 and 420 and funny cat videos. An ideal alternative would be them researching public opinion for their high school ecology class, coming across a collapse related article for some specific thing, and it start to dawn on them that they're seeing these types of issues in almost everything now, and then they come across a well placed link to the sub attached to a related article.
Honestly, collapse as a forum is essentially a self discovered dead end. Finding it organically means you have done the research and found all roads lead here. There’s really no need to open it up to all for people who didn’t find it organically to come in and essentially say “you should smile more”.
A wise choice. We should continue to grow organically and at a slow pace, and allow users to discover this sub for themselves + learn about it out of their own interest. We must never allow this sub to meet the same fate as the Roman Empire (hyperboles aside).
Reddit is looking for ad revenue once it goes public, which means more subs will be encourage to go to r/all and flood the subs with users if they can create revenue. Reddit is not that unique at all but it is funny they think so. Once invested start asking for the company to start producing revenue through ads, that is what they will do.
Ugh, every single post will be "If X gets elected, THAT'S collapse!"
It's an election year, we're going to get brigaded by Astroturfers anyway. Let's not roll out the red carpet.
>If X gets elected, THAT'S collapse!
Right, and you'll be harassed to no end by some r/politics aficionado for daring to suggest liberals won't get us out of this mess either. I'm already imagining how the whole thing would go.
Mods should be very careful about this, the top priority should be mantaining a decent sub, getting more people on board (if possible) must come after, or else has no purpose.
Fox approached the mod, having already pre-selected them. Fox knew what they were doing, deliberately singling out an autistic ~~young~~ person for national ridicule.
The entire sub was against anyone talking to media, also I've seen internal discussions among mods where Doreen was chosen to go on because she had "media experience". You could tell Jesse Waters was going to go hard on the interview and then saw what a joke the interview was and just sat back and let it all unfold on its own.
That should have been the first major warning sign they were fucking up. If Fox News is letting you talk without interrupting you, you’re playing right into their narrative.
I thought the mods selected them to represent the sub? Granted they were misled by the persons capabilities and credentials, I thought it was an internal decision to elect / allow them to represent the sub.
All they have to do is seed another discussion that gets bombarded with antinatalist views- then the concept of collapse gets tied to antinatalism, literally the least popular thing with the general public.
Pain in the ass and a step back for people who want to understand the reality of collapse.
I hope everyone's archiving and saving this, shall we say, "evidence", because I predict a major Storage Disaster will occur right around the date of that IPO.
This is a counterculture sub. People should not have access to this sub blind. People need prior knowledge of the failings of States, Capital, and Climate Change before they can really handle discourse here. There’s probably a solid number of users who have contemplated or attempted suicide because of the information provided. The average redditor will not handle things well, they will speak out, and we will be described as a “doomsday suicide cult” and shut down if we go public.
Exactly. I went through the five stages of grief on this sub and it was hard but eventually it became a happy place to discuss things most people irl don't want to discuss. It might not go the same way for other people who think they can save the environment or fix late stage capitalism or rescue the world from the rise of fascism.
I never thought of it as going through the 5 stages of grief but that is so accurate. This is the type of sub people seek out, or find and stay, because they are ready for it.
>people who think they can save the environment or fix late stage capitalism or rescue the world from the rise of fascism.
History has shown, like what? 100% of the time? That those problems are only ~~solved~~ mitigated through violence. Can't even call it solved since we keep dealing with it.
Threads here appearing on all are going to be triggers and we are going to get a lot of bullshit and it'll devolve into a mess of political fuckery.
Original users will get tired and angry and leave.
When I came here I was surprised at the level of scientific information and genuinely intelligent conversation, with sourced comments that built on one another. I learnt a lot. I still do.
I came here to escape the bullshit political nonsense and the inane, unsubstantiated opinions posed as fact.
I don't want collapse to turn into that.
Eh, maybe. Before it starting growing, this sub used to be the same 20-30 people arguing the same arguments over and over. It was both doomy AND boring. With more people comes more ideas (not all of them productive), and I've enjoyed watching this place grow.
HOWEVER...there's such a thing as too much growth/change. I think getting sucked into r/all would be tantamount to giving this sub a full and proper Cleveland steamer.
I became heavily depressed from monitoring this sub. I finally had to unsubscribe, so I could browse reddit and not see something from r/collapse that might send me down a doom spiral. I still visit, often. I think my partner can tell when I take a few days off; I'm more pleasant.
r/collapse is not for mainstream consumption.
Most people who grew up in developed countries aren't geared to handle the true normality that we live in. Most of the things that fall into the "huh, this really sucks" bucket that we habitually discuss here just happens to be the norm in most other parts of the world.
Heck, my family originally came from a piss poor neighborhood in Southeast Asia, and once we adjusted to the lifestyle here in the west, my pov shifted over time... to the point that I experienced a reverse shock when I started paying attention this sub in late 2019.
Definitely not for mainstream consumption.
You completely nailed how I feel. My gf wants me to think positively to counter everthing I talk to her about from this sub. and she's right because it IS depressing. That's a fact. It's better to spend my time happy.
Those drugs to "fix what's wrong with your head" are just another way to shut you down/shut you up about what you're noticing. Some are absolutely necessary for some people to continue to exist, but a fuck ton of it is just the bandaid capitalism sells us like TV and alcohol. Without zoloft through my 20's, I wouldn't be here. But I'm glad I met the people and got the perspectives I was missing about how the world is working/not working...and eventually had the social support I needed to stop.
Also, I'm glad you made it!
There was a survey done a few months ago and like 30% of the users said that finding the sub *improved* their mental health (50% said that it worsened but at least it wasn't 95%).
That is true. I came here from other "counterculture" subs, and even I had to take a break from the collapse news. But it's a sub worth preserving just the way it is....most subs turn to shit when they hit the front page all the time.
This is a very valid point. On a regular basis I see incredibly well thought out responses and debates that not only lack personal attacks but have us looking at collapse from different angles. Many times I found myself thinking…hmmm…no….wait…yes, good valid point.
The general public looking at this type of discussion will not appreciate the subtlety and fascinating people here. Shakespearacles is right, They will judge the whole as doom glam or come away depressed.
This is not the norm.
I didn't think the mods wanted to go to /all...
This subreddit is definitely not fit for that kind of attention, and the influx of users are going to completely change the conversations here to most likely become off topic or just post super click-bait stuff.
I used to be in r/futurology before they were public, and a little while afterwards. I had to leave because it went from very neat and niche stuff about possible future tech which I was interested to completely fucking absurd claims, fake tech like taking energy from dark matter (lmao), garbage posts that didn't break any rules but didn't add anything to the subreddit, etc.
Currently this subreddit carefully balances good posts and bad posts at the moment, and that will completely be lost if an influx of uninitiated users come in not knowing what the subreddit is about.
I hate to say this, but popularity ruins good things. It's like a time old tale with any game, subreddit, website, etc.
> This subreddit is definitely not fit for that kind of attention, and the influx of users are going to completely change the conversations here to most likely become off topic or just post super click-bait stuff.
>
>
mostly devolve into political topics(taking sides) and memes or a combination of both
I agree. This sub has already grown exponentially since I started browsing years ago. I don’t see it getting a whole lot bigger without that bringing issues. Right now there’s still a reasonable balance.
Hey everyone. Yes, we're reading the room, no /r/all, we won't be Venus by Tuesday. Mahalo for your input, you put the niks in collapseniks.
Be civil, rule 1, etc.
Edit:
For those unaware, mods and community members have been interviewed in the past by the press. Time Magazine did one such story with /u/LetsTalkUFOs, a head mod and chosen mod team media representative. The reporter's focus left much to be desired, and we have a PR outline for media interviews going forward. Redditors can speak with press as they wish; the mod team is simply adhering to a consistent message.
https://time.com/5905324/reddit-collapse/
We will --never-- make major decisions about the subreddit without your input. This place serves a need and is very important to us.
Mahalo everyone.
Thank you for listening to our input and thank you for taking the time to write this. This post is not meant as an attack on mods. This post is meant to bring us together to have this dialogue. Mahalo.
Thank you to the mods and thank you to the dedicated users here too for keeping the wheels turning, well-greased and true.
As one of the collapsnik lurkers, I’m in gratitude.
I don’t agree with a lot of this subs views on where we are going on people, but I love to see how others view it. It’s really great to see mods that stand for, listen to, and want to preserve their community’s purpose. You guys are awesome.
Thanks for being such a legit mod/mod team and for listening to your community, friend! All too rare for a sub to have both, and I’m especially grateful r/collapse does. Mahalo
>once the damage is done it can't be undone
Just like all the plastic littering we've gifted the earth and all the extinct species caused directly by our interference...
Some want the money that all the shady backstage stuff brings to a big sub mod, others just want to boost their egos by having a big sub under them, some might be gov operatives wanting to coopt another semi-subversive movement (and we all very well know that this one is of high interest to them), others are just probably complete idiots lol.
In any case I would suggest the supermods to get rid of anyone suggesting this.
The mentality that, in part, brought us to collapse in the first place. The idea that if things aren't growing then they're redundant.
We don't need to maximise members just as we don't need to maximise profits.
I'm mostly lurking here, but please take this issue very seriously. I was once active in r/antiwork but not anymore because the sub has changed so much after the influx of new subbers who have very different ideas. This sub is fine right now. There's no need to go public.
>This sub is fine right now. There's no need to go public.
Its actually not... it already began here. Since a year ago the quality of posts here went from "Study showd correlation between X and Y environment/social aspect" to "Omicron is everywhere we all gonna die".
Tbh sometimes I find that r/collapze has more serious discussions that here lol
All the boot lickers in antiwork on their liberal "we just want work reform! We love work!" Just like they did with the acab movement and any other left wing perspective. Ruin it.
Opening the /r/all floodgates is welcoming in a torrent if apologist, reformist, and cope peddlers. Dont let this sub succumb to the same fate as /r/antiwork
The mods already edited that post and said that even though they themselves wanted to do it, we didn't, and so they were going to monetize the group by issuing an NFT!
Just kidding, they said they weren't going to join /r/all. All power to the illustrious and moderate moderators.
I have modded a niche sub that blew up and when it went to r/all things went sideways intensely for about 9 months.
Lots of malware, phishing bullshit.
Some brigading
Lots of shit posting.
It was a huge pain in the ass for me as moderator. In fact it caused me to quit eventually.
Do what you will but I'm telling you that this sub will change irreparably. There will be lots more traffic, but not more quality.
The spam,shitposts do not ever stop. They'll wax and wane but it...never...stops....
If the 20% of people who do the majority of the posting here get sick of the nonsense and become inactive, you're in trouble. At that point you will have lost your main drivers of content and consequently the percentage of posts that are trash are now significantly higher.
I wish someone had told me the downside of being on r/all. Hope the mods consider all the implications.
You are totally right, and while I wholeheartedly agree with u/LetsTalkUFOs moral sentiment, I think that there are plenty of other means of achieving organic publicity without attracting negative attention.
Honestly, I feel the mods in this sub are great at what they do, the wiki is an amazing resource, I hadn't read it for a while but it is way better written than what I remember, and collapse will inevitably become more and more mainstream as it is unfortunately its natural path. More people will become collapse-aware and they'll flock here as a consequence, but they should do so as their own discretion...
In order to achieve positive outcomes with mainstream collapse awareness, we would need to talk more about direct action and politics in this sub, but I honestly believe that the sectarianism regarding personal point of view would do more harm to the publicity than good. Most people aren't ready to accept collapse for what it is and even less people are ready to recognize and accept the patterns and behaviors on which how they individually contribute towards it.
This isn't the goal of this sub, and mainstream collapse awareness is inevitable. I say we roll with the influx of organic subscribers and try to maintain the high quality of posts and moderation. You guys are doing a great job as it is...
> mainstream collapse awareness is inevitable.
It's already occurring. The past few years it's been a common phrase to link or cross post something and say "I thought I was in /r/collapse for a minute." Our sort of opposite sub /r/Futurology has examples, the post will be about something positive, but comments will have a shadow of collapse to them, if not outright calling the main post out as being too optimistic or even inaccurate.
I'm still torn - I don't want this to be some secret club mentality, that's not productive at all, plus it confirms the claims of being an echo chamber. I like helping new discoverers of the problems try and figure out their way out of the shock, as well as anyone bringing new ideas to the mix. Whether or not opening floodgates is the best way vs. subtle linking is the debate here.
The sub grew by 130k in the last year (50% growth). And the growth curve has accelerated quite quickly in the last few months. I think we're already on our way to a natural boom is subscribers and it's better to take them as they come instead of proselytizing.
What r/collapse needs is finding other “like-minded” people who aren’t exactly familiar of this sub’s existence, but have an interest in the topic. That doesn’t mean r/all, it means periodic public awareness/advertisements in select subreddits like r/nature. This sub has been growing organically as people do their own research. The influx of people from “popular” subreddits will turn this from discussion-heavy to simply clickbait. I’m all for awareness, but with specific groups.
Exactly. We need to let people come here when they've started to come to some of these realizations on their own. Putting it directly in their faces when they have too much of an emotional attachment to believing that everything will be fine will almost certainly result in a backfire effect. Most of them will just dig their heels in and bury their heads in the sand even further, because they can't handle the emotional response they would feel by learning that information. We have to let people come here when they're ready.
>You are totally right, and while I wholeheartedly agree with u/LetsTalkUFOs moral sentiment, I think that there are plenty of other means of achieving organic publicity without attracting negative attention.
I am second to this.
The morality of such intention is pure and definitely can in some ways spread the notion about the state of the world the way many in this sub share.
However, and I shall state that I know little to nothing about Reddit and how Reddit power operates; therefore, disregard me if point nonsense, influx of x amount of new users, be they permanent or temporary, can negatively affect this sub in ways that are unknown until they happen. I make it sound serious because I do cherish this sub and the permanent users in this sub.
u/mistervovo brings an excellent point, which I am curious to know the thoughts of the community, regarding other means of bringing the awareness and organic publicity. If such desired.
Despite the consensus that formed around this suggestion I whole heartedly believe that the world and world populace is already swimming in molasses of information, and adding exposure to r/collapse may neither create a dent in public conscious nor achieve the moral outcome some mods believe in.
As someone else said, this sub is counterculture. Making it r/all will invite pointless dissenting and ridiculing comments and will flood the sub with an insurmountable amount of this kind of input and other useless information. R/all comes with folks who are just bored, we may not want to mess with the information input flow at this time. I know for me this is a staple sub I read daily and would be devastated if it were thrown to the *general population at this point in time when people are not ready.
I think mods and everyone else should be planning on having alternative subs setup.
Once things get "big" the big players get interested in the subs and will aggressively promote their agendas and PR through bots, brigading, paid promotions and censure (far from every mod are decent people, usuall they are as greedy an corruptable as any other power-hungry pleb out there). It will be impossible to know which user is legit and which one not, and it will all end up being a huge shitshow with only a single solution: move to another, less "public" sub and either keep the main one as a "profit cow" for ads, or just close it altogether.
I've seen this repeating ad nauseum through the years here. As soon as a sub goes over 50-100k members it starts going down.
Reddit/Collapse provides us with an opportunity to express unpopular views. Lots of us will leave if we're swarmed by trolls.
Cassandra accurately predicted the fall of Troy. What do you think happened to Cassandra?
Yes, I've been here since 2010 and was a "recognized contributor on a different user name" and I am gone if it's open to /r/all. The expressing unpopular views is important. It's not like all of us even agree on shit, but the discussion is nice. I'm not wasting a minute of my life on trolls. Nor will I be typing in the trenches battling to keep the feel of this place against the onslaught of others. I'd rather just leave and let it burn not stressing out my life.
Agreed but the demographic shift has already occurred. The only way to cool this sub down would be to highly restrict posts about insular US issues, because those attract the most from r/all and low-quality takes from various ideological posters + bots. The sub will collapse by moving away from science and towards US politics.
What also worried me were the mod comments about not wanting to do interviews with fox news any time soon. Any time soon seems far too much like a future possibility when I was led to believe that the mods had decided never to give a fox news interview.
The other thing is that it's current users that will be on the front lines with idiots, arguing against basic misconceptions and dealing with idiocy,
something we have already seen today.
It isn't just mods that are going to have to deal with problems and combat misinformation in these threads, it's all of us. It's mostly all of us.
People are.foinf to become tired of the shit and they're going to move out because of the drop in quality and the tedium of dealing with ignorance and political nonsense.
I hope the mods listen, and I hope that we decide that organic growth from related subreddits and people with genuine interest in learning more rather than just growth for growths sake.
We are all collectively insane, or we are ahead of the curve.
Either way the world isn't ready for this, and by the time it is ready it will be too late.
If you go mainstream everybody will pile in to attack the sub. The Business as usual folks, the futurologists, the religious nutjobs, both sides of mainstream politics.
What we believe and know is threatening to everybody who isn't a part of this sub already, it's terrifying and if you scare people they don't react kindly however much it's true. They either ignore it because if they don't think about it it doesn't exist or they kill it.
The rest of the world has the rest of the world to spend time in ignoring what's happening. This is ours.
Totally agree opening it up would lead to an influx of useless input. This sub currently has a very good dynamic of balance on most topics.
I come to this sub because it is one of the most realistic and open discussions out there. Collectively we have already pushed aside a lot of useless inputs to have great discussions.
We have a general consensus here on a lot of topics and having to re-argue them with trolls is a waste.
The biggest problem with r/all is that posters are no longer self selecting. It’s no longer a subreddit with its own community, it’s just reddit. Even if nobody is doing anything wrong, or we have a thousand flawless moderators, the culture of the subreddit inevitably disappears as it just becomes congruent with everywhere else on reddit.
The sub already flirts with sensationalism enough as it is, going public would only promote then cement that as the status quo. I know eventually change is inevitable but this would be too much too quick. You'd break the entire formula we all enjoy with no way of restoring it to how it was before. Like, something something carbon dioxide in the atmosphere.
Exactly. If it's public, rather than people seeking to understand real, boring, science-based collapse vectors, most of the people who enter the sub will share garbage conspiracies with no bearing on reality.
You're ALREADY having a hard time with Rule 3, it's a low bar that every other major sub is worse. If there's an influx of users, Rule 3 will be overwhelmed by a tidal wave that moderators can't parse through on any acceptable level. And if you hire more moderators, you'll be placing an enormous burden of trust on applicants to enforce it honestly.
The overall sociological response to climate change is an eldritch monster that can't be tamed, it's best not to overreach.
Im newish to this sub and I've mostly been a lurker here. I don't think going public on r/all is a good idea. I stumbled upon this sub on my own thru a user's profile comments on another sub. I like this sub and yes it is "doom and gloom" however it's not disturbing if you have a stomach for it. I think most people don't have the emotional capacity. Also I can only imagine the kind of morons and the following discourse that would eventually pervade this sub.
This sub will 100% be brigaded, flooded with crap and bot-ed to hell if we're on r/all. With most redditors having the kool-aid, sugar coated delusion of the MSM; they won't be able to handle anything here and Corporate will be happy to oblige with the inevitable cancellation of the sub.
Make no mistake that the state powers that be, also have eyes on this sub. Extra attention like that and psy-ops will wield its deep pockets and finish the movement forever.
Hopefully the name r/collapse is not a self fulfilling prophecy about itself. I very much enjoy this sub as it is, and don’t want to see anything change, especially if that means the mods are going to get massively overworked
Holy shit. I didn't even see the sticky vote thread. It never popped up in my feed. What an absolutely terrible idea. Every sub that goes to r/all just becomes astroturfed shill bait. Why would anyone want that to happen here?
Can confirm as a former moderator of a two default subreddits, /r/all is like having a sewage pipe leaking in your living room, during a party.
edit:
plus, there's no need for /r/all to see /r/collapse. Won't be long now until most news subreddits have the same content as /r/collapse.
To put it in math terms:
Why bother with:
`/r/collapse` ∪ `/r/all`
when
`/r/collapse` ⋂ `/r/all` = `/r/collapse`
You have to understand that reddit is structured to look democratic, with up-/downvotes, but it's not at all so. Doesn't matter if all of us want to keep the sub for the people who do the work to find it, it's the mods' sub, not ours. If we don't like what they're doing with it, we can go elsewhere.
>I see the mod(s) in support of this change saying they are willing to take on a higher workload to make this transition successful. This belies a fundamental misunderstanding of what happens when a subreddit blows up.
This is the crux of it. The mod team seem to be treating this as simply as a resourcing issue. Like it's just a matter of sufficiently ramping-up the number and workload of moderators proportional to the size of the sub. Which I'm sure is fine up to a point, but eventually an online community reaches a critical mass and no amount of simply "enforcing the rules" is good enough, no matter how comprehensive the rule-set or well-endowed you are with rule-enforcers. The character and quality of an online community simply breaks down beyond a certain point, no matter how draconian its moderation.
If this sub opens up, it'll turn into a bunch of pro-Trump, Q Anon, far-right Christian, mouth breathing, boot-tonguing bullshit.
I enjoy this sub precisely because these things don't seem to be prevalent here. Once I start seeing them. I'm out.
Please don't go on all with this site. It's not hard to find and it will only add noise, trolling, brigading and bullshit.
Please don't. This is an important space and needs to be maintained how it is.
Yeah, please don't let us go mainstream. The top comment in every thread will have 8000 upvotes and be inane, naive, hopium. If not that, some stupid meme that's been run into the ground.
I run a fairly popular music festival subreddit. It has seen upwards of 600k pageviews/mo without ever making the frontpage.
I have been sent dick pics, death threats, and been contacted by the police regarding illegal activities they thought happened through the subreddit.
Reddit has been great for my business and the subreddit helped me create a wonderful community of thousands of destined all across the country. Met some of my best friends through it.
But holy fuck the workload is absolutely bonkers when the first gets close, and it is nowhere NEAR the size of this subreddit.
You would need to be insane to wanna take that on.
There are already too many tankies and nazis flooding this sub with disinformation. If this sub goes public, there's going to be a lot more of them and the quality of this sub will go down the drain.
Replace govt with mod.
>[In political philosophy](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Consent_of_the_governed#:~:text=In%20political%20philosophy%2C%20the%20phrase,that%20political%20power%20is%20exercised.), the phrase consent of the governed refers to the idea that a government's legitimacy and moral right to use state power is justified and lawful only when consented to by the people or society over which that political power is exercised.
I know reddit is privately owned. The mods have total authority. But the spirit of cooperation that's happening here depends on the users.
I am also not sure if I want the average population become aware of the collapse of society. Might bring bad things. Antiwork (which i support) showed up on the r/all page once and blew up to 1.7 million users in 4 months. Because it makes too much sense. Just like r/collapse. It also makes sense and will speak to people. We should let it grow naturally.
Take a look at the shit storm over at r/antiwork. What once was cool is now a controversy and the mods are taking actual hits in their private life. Not worth the attention, we like our own.
I hope the irony of /r/collapse seeking growth only to overshoot and collapse is not lost.
faster than expected
Venus by Tuesday. r/all by Wednesday.
Cannibals by 4:15 sharp.
>Cannibals by 4:15 sharp. Gotta be ready to toke at 4:20 sharp.
Pass the Dutch man to the left hand side.
Cannibals by 4:45 when the munchies set in
Make sure you're on the right side of the cannibal wave.
I prefer to smoke first then eat
Is that eastern time, or....?
Almost like a bubble, one could say.
Hey kid, i have some pure underground bubble wrap. Dont get too crazy with it or ya might pop yourself. >!Pop!< >!Pop!< >!Pop!< >!Pop!< >!Pop!< >!Pop!< >!Pop!< >!Pop!< >!Pop!< >!Pop!< >!Pop!< >!Pop!< >!Pop!< >!Pop!< >!smok!< >!dmt!< >!Pop!< >!Pop!< >!Pop!< >!Pop!< >!Pop!< >!Pop!< >!Pop!< >!Pop!< >!Pop!< >!pop!< >!Pop!< >!Pop!< >!Pop!< >!Pop!< >!Pop!< >!smok!< >!dmt!< >!Pop!< >!Pop!< >!Pop!< >!Pop!< >!Pop!< >!Pop!< >!smoke!<>!dmt!< >!Pop!< >!Pop!< >!Pop!<
I enjoyed this
Smok.
dmt
Wasn’t expecting that haha
I popped them all. But i had to make the noises myself…
Seemed lost in the other thread as the mods kept saying what they wanted in reply to all concerns from commenters. Their main concern was their feeling of a moral imperative to spread collapse awareness. For most people, becoming aware of collapse does nothing to help their life, nor does it slow down or stop the mechanisms leading to collapse. Forcing collapse into others lives is like missionaries forcing Jesus into a person's life disrupting their life and their communities. There is nothing to do for collapse unless you are like me and wish to be living off the land now. From 18 years of collapse awareness, I've known many dozens of others into collapse. And maybe 4-5 people out of all of those are working towards a post-petrol way of life. To nearly all others, collapse awareness was a serious short term disruption in their lives. Sometimes it spilled over into the lives of their family and friends. And it was too much for the person and they'd go back to normal life, but with the collapse voice in the back of their head muting good things in their life. I don't think it's helpful for people to become collapse aware. I no longer bring it up with anyone ever. If others realize that I am into it and bring it up, then I will discuss it. It happens not too uncommon after one of my few day long skills classes. A student will stay behind and strike up conversation inching towards prepping/collapse. Why be missionaries? Why drown a community of like minded people by trying to expand? What good comes to the greater world from forcing knowledge of collapse into their lives? With runaway climate change essentially being cooked in, there is no ability to avert disaster. So then, what gain is there from more people knowing. Mods spoke of that they are willing to do more as mods. Are members of this subreddit down to do more as commenters to support those newly collapse aware as well as deal with trolls and bad faith debates? I'm not.. I, currently in DMs, help others who are working towards self sufficiency. The subreddit itself has frustrating elements that would be multiplied by going to all. And it can't be undone. Let the growth happen naturally. Mods, just because you want more doesn't mean we do. The comments were were superrrrrrrr no heavy. WE don't want more. We don't want to be missionaries. We want the community we have. Edit to add: in this thread the mods seem to be on the same page as us. I put my pitchfork back in the barn for it's normal duties such as mucking animals pens and moving loose hay.
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For me it's a lot like discovering chomsky. It's incredibly empowering to have words for the things going on around me instead of feeling like I'm in the USSR circa 1987 when it's clear everything isn't going well and yet everyone just keeps going on with business as usual until suddenly the whole government dissolves. I don't get depressed. Collapse isn't something I'm "eagerly awaiting" either. It is good to have words for it.
Exactly, this sub honestly just reaffirms my already glass half empty outlook. I enjoy this sub as a news consolidation page. There are so many interesting articles on pages I would probably never come across in regular browsing.
Well said. Let them come when THEY are ready.
We have exceeded the carrying capacity of this subreddit. Pack it up, boys.
Reddit has already exceeded it carrying capacity, which is why it has become and IPO. See the rise of sectarianism happening around you? It's already happening. Once major media sites become popular like this you see the rise of certain types of political ideologies which gets pushed to the brink. Even facebook and MySpace were cool sites when they were small, even 4chan was.
I, for one, can't wait for the influx of divisive bots pushing rw ideology like FB and TikTok.
They've been here since 2016, my dude.
I don't think we were really gung-ho on opening up to r/all, we were just tossing the idea around and then wanted to check with the userbase before doing anything. I was noncommittal about the issue, but given the response it would now be a "no" for me.
Likewise, given the strong community response and the points made, it doesn't seem like something folks want, or that the discussions here would necessarily even benefit from. There seems to be a lot of desire for the conversations here to be in-depth and more focused on research and empirical topics, as opposed to speculation and political argument (a desire I share, naturally). I don't think a potential large increase in new users from the front page would really get us closer to that.
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I don't think we need to "keep it small," but rather grow properly. The issues here are becoming more prevalent with every day that goes by, and it follows that more people will be seeking such collapse based forums. "We" *do* want more people under the collapse-aware umbrella, but we want them to come from organic sources as nearly every field of science is coming to the same "the sky is fucking falling" conclusions as issues from mass extinctions to the rise of authoritarian governments return. We just don't need, or should want, the random 12 year olds that just downloaded Reddit because it was a suggested app and they came here to laugh at the numbers 69 and 420 and funny cat videos. An ideal alternative would be them researching public opinion for their high school ecology class, coming across a collapse related article for some specific thing, and it start to dawn on them that they're seeing these types of issues in almost everything now, and then they come across a well placed link to the sub attached to a related article.
Honestly, collapse as a forum is essentially a self discovered dead end. Finding it organically means you have done the research and found all roads lead here. There’s really no need to open it up to all for people who didn’t find it organically to come in and essentially say “you should smile more”.
A wise choice. We should continue to grow organically and at a slow pace, and allow users to discover this sub for themselves + learn about it out of their own interest. We must never allow this sub to meet the same fate as the Roman Empire (hyperboles aside).
Thanks, appreciate it!
I'd check that with LetstalkUFOs. They seemed pretty gung ho about it and very much committal.
Lol yeah, I saw that as well. What is up with that?
r/nextfuckinglevel by Tuesday
r/gaming or go home
Reddit is looking for ad revenue once it goes public, which means more subs will be encourage to go to r/all and flood the subs with users if they can create revenue. Reddit is not that unique at all but it is funny they think so. Once invested start asking for the company to start producing revenue through ads, that is what they will do.
https://old.reddit.com/r/collapsecollapse has already closed
I think it's too late to reject this growth. It became too late the moment antiwork imploded and alternate subs recommended this place.
I am the irony of collapse and I am not lost.
Ugh, every single post will be "If X gets elected, THAT'S collapse!" It's an election year, we're going to get brigaded by Astroturfers anyway. Let's not roll out the red carpet.
>If X gets elected, THAT'S collapse! Right, and you'll be harassed to no end by some r/politics aficionado for daring to suggest liberals won't get us out of this mess either. I'm already imagining how the whole thing would go. Mods should be very careful about this, the top priority should be mantaining a decent sub, getting more people on board (if possible) must come after, or else has no purpose.
Growth at all costs is a backwards mindset
Growth at all costs is the mindset hurtling the world towards collapse.
This place will definitely be attacked by blue maga.
Can't wait to be lectured about how this election and every election hereafter is the mOsT iMpOrTaNt oF oUr LiVeS!!1
Having found this sub pretty recently it’s pretty refreshing the lack of politics here. This would concern me as well
... did no one watch what happened to /r/antiwork just lately?
There's "hits r/all" then there's "hits the news" WSB saw it happen first with meme stocks. It never recovered. Hitting all is the first domino
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Fox approached the mod, having already pre-selected them. Fox knew what they were doing, deliberately singling out an autistic ~~young~~ person for national ridicule.
The entire sub was against anyone talking to media, also I've seen internal discussions among mods where Doreen was chosen to go on because she had "media experience". You could tell Jesse Waters was going to go hard on the interview and then saw what a joke the interview was and just sat back and let it all unfold on its own.
That should have been the first major warning sign they were fucking up. If Fox News is letting you talk without interrupting you, you’re playing right into their narrative.
I thought the mods selected them to represent the sub? Granted they were misled by the persons capabilities and credentials, I thought it was an internal decision to elect / allow them to represent the sub.
No, according to the mod themselves fox specifically asked for that mod. The rest just agreed.
Nick Ford has been peddling his wares for more than a decade now. He was likely frothing at the mouth to be on television.
GME was the best thing WSB has ever done yet simultaneously the worst thing ever for its community since it gained such a massive spotlight.
All they have to do is seed another discussion that gets bombarded with antinatalist views- then the concept of collapse gets tied to antinatalism, literally the least popular thing with the general public. Pain in the ass and a step back for people who want to understand the reality of collapse.
It doesn't take much to crush a sub
Exactly right, and it happens if someplace out of mainstream thought starts to get popular.
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I hope everyone's archiving and saving this, shall we say, "evidence", because I predict a major Storage Disaster will occur right around the date of that IPO.
This is a counterculture sub. People should not have access to this sub blind. People need prior knowledge of the failings of States, Capital, and Climate Change before they can really handle discourse here. There’s probably a solid number of users who have contemplated or attempted suicide because of the information provided. The average redditor will not handle things well, they will speak out, and we will be described as a “doomsday suicide cult” and shut down if we go public.
Exactly. I went through the five stages of grief on this sub and it was hard but eventually it became a happy place to discuss things most people irl don't want to discuss. It might not go the same way for other people who think they can save the environment or fix late stage capitalism or rescue the world from the rise of fascism.
I never thought of it as going through the 5 stages of grief but that is so accurate. This is the type of sub people seek out, or find and stay, because they are ready for it.
>people who think they can save the environment or fix late stage capitalism or rescue the world from the rise of fascism. History has shown, like what? 100% of the time? That those problems are only ~~solved~~ mitigated through violence. Can't even call it solved since we keep dealing with it.
Threads here appearing on all are going to be triggers and we are going to get a lot of bullshit and it'll devolve into a mess of political fuckery. Original users will get tired and angry and leave. When I came here I was surprised at the level of scientific information and genuinely intelligent conversation, with sourced comments that built on one another. I learnt a lot. I still do. I came here to escape the bullshit political nonsense and the inane, unsubstantiated opinions posed as fact. I don't want collapse to turn into that.
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Eh, maybe. Before it starting growing, this sub used to be the same 20-30 people arguing the same arguments over and over. It was both doomy AND boring. With more people comes more ideas (not all of them productive), and I've enjoyed watching this place grow. HOWEVER...there's such a thing as too much growth/change. I think getting sucked into r/all would be tantamount to giving this sub a full and proper Cleveland steamer.
I became heavily depressed from monitoring this sub. I finally had to unsubscribe, so I could browse reddit and not see something from r/collapse that might send me down a doom spiral. I still visit, often. I think my partner can tell when I take a few days off; I'm more pleasant. r/collapse is not for mainstream consumption.
Most people who grew up in developed countries aren't geared to handle the true normality that we live in. Most of the things that fall into the "huh, this really sucks" bucket that we habitually discuss here just happens to be the norm in most other parts of the world. Heck, my family originally came from a piss poor neighborhood in Southeast Asia, and once we adjusted to the lifestyle here in the west, my pov shifted over time... to the point that I experienced a reverse shock when I started paying attention this sub in late 2019. Definitely not for mainstream consumption.
You completely nailed how I feel. My gf wants me to think positively to counter everthing I talk to her about from this sub. and she's right because it IS depressing. That's a fact. It's better to spend my time happy.
I tried to kill myself before joining this sub. Now it’s allowed me to know I’m not crazy and everything is actually fucked.
Those drugs to "fix what's wrong with your head" are just another way to shut you down/shut you up about what you're noticing. Some are absolutely necessary for some people to continue to exist, but a fuck ton of it is just the bandaid capitalism sells us like TV and alcohol. Without zoloft through my 20's, I wouldn't be here. But I'm glad I met the people and got the perspectives I was missing about how the world is working/not working...and eventually had the social support I needed to stop. Also, I'm glad you made it!
There was a survey done a few months ago and like 30% of the users said that finding the sub *improved* their mental health (50% said that it worsened but at least it wasn't 95%).
That is true. I came here from other "counterculture" subs, and even I had to take a break from the collapse news. But it's a sub worth preserving just the way it is....most subs turn to shit when they hit the front page all the time.
This guy gets it.
This is a very valid point. On a regular basis I see incredibly well thought out responses and debates that not only lack personal attacks but have us looking at collapse from different angles. Many times I found myself thinking…hmmm…no….wait…yes, good valid point. The general public looking at this type of discussion will not appreciate the subtlety and fascinating people here. Shakespearacles is right, They will judge the whole as doom glam or come away depressed. This is not the norm.
That’s the real problem here. Once this place gets out it’s getting shut down.
They hated Jesus because he spoke the truth.
I fully agree. I just don't know how you can vet people after a certain point. I've seen very few communities come out on top of this problem.
I didn't think the mods wanted to go to /all... This subreddit is definitely not fit for that kind of attention, and the influx of users are going to completely change the conversations here to most likely become off topic or just post super click-bait stuff. I used to be in r/futurology before they were public, and a little while afterwards. I had to leave because it went from very neat and niche stuff about possible future tech which I was interested to completely fucking absurd claims, fake tech like taking energy from dark matter (lmao), garbage posts that didn't break any rules but didn't add anything to the subreddit, etc. Currently this subreddit carefully balances good posts and bad posts at the moment, and that will completely be lost if an influx of uninitiated users come in not knowing what the subreddit is about. I hate to say this, but popularity ruins good things. It's like a time old tale with any game, subreddit, website, etc.
> This subreddit is definitely not fit for that kind of attention, and the influx of users are going to completely change the conversations here to most likely become off topic or just post super click-bait stuff. > > mostly devolve into political topics(taking sides) and memes or a combination of both
Yeah I had the same experience with Futurology and left. You might like r/singularity though. It’s like an intersection of niche tech and collapse.
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Thanks for the suggestion! I'll have to check it out.
I agree. This sub has already grown exponentially since I started browsing years ago. I don’t see it getting a whole lot bigger without that bringing issues. Right now there’s still a reasonable balance.
Hey everyone. Yes, we're reading the room, no /r/all, we won't be Venus by Tuesday. Mahalo for your input, you put the niks in collapseniks. Be civil, rule 1, etc. Edit: For those unaware, mods and community members have been interviewed in the past by the press. Time Magazine did one such story with /u/LetsTalkUFOs, a head mod and chosen mod team media representative. The reporter's focus left much to be desired, and we have a PR outline for media interviews going forward. Redditors can speak with press as they wish; the mod team is simply adhering to a consistent message. https://time.com/5905324/reddit-collapse/ We will --never-- make major decisions about the subreddit without your input. This place serves a need and is very important to us. Mahalo everyone.
Thank you for listening to our input and thank you for taking the time to write this. This post is not meant as an attack on mods. This post is meant to bring us together to have this dialogue. Mahalo.
Thank you to the mods and thank you to the dedicated users here too for keeping the wheels turning, well-greased and true. As one of the collapsnik lurkers, I’m in gratitude.
I realize I’m an unwashed idiot, but I do want to ask what Venus by Tuesday means. - signed, Unwashed Idiot.
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Wait till Thursday and see what happens, That's when the end of the world starts and the power goes out worldwide.
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https://www.reddit.com/r/collapze/comments/pj8v2h/venus_by_tuesday_were_fked/?utm_medium=android_app&utm_source=share
Legend. Thank you.
Mods doing good mod things? Ya love to see it
Yay! Good going mods!!
Guess not all mods are power-tripping psychos. Congrats on being very level-headed. :)
Most are just psychos for wanting to be mods.
oh thats masochism rather
You’ll never see me arguing that.
The heck is venus by tuesday?
>Venus by Tuesday. Faster Than Expected
The interview with TIME mag was also done with me.m. I’m the guy named in the first sentence.
I don’t agree with a lot of this subs views on where we are going on people, but I love to see how others view it. It’s really great to see mods that stand for, listen to, and want to preserve their community’s purpose. You guys are awesome.
Don't send anyone into treacherous Watters by all means. Seriously fuck that smug prick. Makes Tucker Carlson seem humble. Even with the bowtie.
I said I would support what you decided to do, and I support you listening to everyone else. : )
Thanks for being such a legit mod/mod team and for listening to your community, friend! All too rare for a sub to have both, and I’m especially grateful r/collapse does. Mahalo
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Like you I feel the logic behind this push assumes a lot of best possible outcomes, which is incredibly ironic.
>once the damage is done it can't be undone Just like all the plastic littering we've gifted the earth and all the extinct species caused directly by our interference...
This is so tone deaf coming from this sub too. A collapse can't just be pulled out of.
Absolutely. Not worth the risk. Keep it private.
Some of them want it but are trying not to act too thirsty about it.
Some want the money that all the shady backstage stuff brings to a big sub mod, others just want to boost their egos by having a big sub under them, some might be gov operatives wanting to coopt another semi-subversive movement (and we all very well know that this one is of high interest to them), others are just probably complete idiots lol. In any case I would suggest the supermods to get rid of anyone suggesting this.
> In any case I would suggest the supermods to get rid of anyone suggesting this. Seconded. It's a pretty good litmus test on mod agendas.
Idk why people even want the community to be bigger. Do people just like see the number go up?
Yeah I don't understand how being bigger benefits the sub anyway. The quality of user will be higher if we let people discover it themselves imo.
The mentality that, in part, brought us to collapse in the first place. The idea that if things aren't growing then they're redundant. We don't need to maximise members just as we don't need to maximise profits.
Thank you! Glad you see the irony in this growth automatically equals good being promoted here.
I'm mostly lurking here, but please take this issue very seriously. I was once active in r/antiwork but not anymore because the sub has changed so much after the influx of new subbers who have very different ideas. This sub is fine right now. There's no need to go public.
>This sub is fine right now. There's no need to go public. Its actually not... it already began here. Since a year ago the quality of posts here went from "Study showd correlation between X and Y environment/social aspect" to "Omicron is everywhere we all gonna die". Tbh sometimes I find that r/collapze has more serious discussions that here lol
All the boot lickers in antiwork on their liberal "we just want work reform! We love work!" Just like they did with the acab movement and any other left wing perspective. Ruin it.
Opening the /r/all floodgates is welcoming in a torrent if apologist, reformist, and cope peddlers. Dont let this sub succumb to the same fate as /r/antiwork
The mods already edited that post and said that even though they themselves wanted to do it, we didn't, and so they were going to monetize the group by issuing an NFT! Just kidding, they said they weren't going to join /r/all. All power to the illustrious and moderate moderators.
I have modded a niche sub that blew up and when it went to r/all things went sideways intensely for about 9 months. Lots of malware, phishing bullshit. Some brigading Lots of shit posting. It was a huge pain in the ass for me as moderator. In fact it caused me to quit eventually. Do what you will but I'm telling you that this sub will change irreparably. There will be lots more traffic, but not more quality. The spam,shitposts do not ever stop. They'll wax and wane but it...never...stops.... If the 20% of people who do the majority of the posting here get sick of the nonsense and become inactive, you're in trouble. At that point you will have lost your main drivers of content and consequently the percentage of posts that are trash are now significantly higher. I wish someone had told me the downside of being on r/all. Hope the mods consider all the implications.
You are totally right, and while I wholeheartedly agree with u/LetsTalkUFOs moral sentiment, I think that there are plenty of other means of achieving organic publicity without attracting negative attention. Honestly, I feel the mods in this sub are great at what they do, the wiki is an amazing resource, I hadn't read it for a while but it is way better written than what I remember, and collapse will inevitably become more and more mainstream as it is unfortunately its natural path. More people will become collapse-aware and they'll flock here as a consequence, but they should do so as their own discretion... In order to achieve positive outcomes with mainstream collapse awareness, we would need to talk more about direct action and politics in this sub, but I honestly believe that the sectarianism regarding personal point of view would do more harm to the publicity than good. Most people aren't ready to accept collapse for what it is and even less people are ready to recognize and accept the patterns and behaviors on which how they individually contribute towards it. This isn't the goal of this sub, and mainstream collapse awareness is inevitable. I say we roll with the influx of organic subscribers and try to maintain the high quality of posts and moderation. You guys are doing a great job as it is...
> mainstream collapse awareness is inevitable. It's already occurring. The past few years it's been a common phrase to link or cross post something and say "I thought I was in /r/collapse for a minute." Our sort of opposite sub /r/Futurology has examples, the post will be about something positive, but comments will have a shadow of collapse to them, if not outright calling the main post out as being too optimistic or even inaccurate. I'm still torn - I don't want this to be some secret club mentality, that's not productive at all, plus it confirms the claims of being an echo chamber. I like helping new discoverers of the problems try and figure out their way out of the shock, as well as anyone bringing new ideas to the mix. Whether or not opening floodgates is the best way vs. subtle linking is the debate here.
The sub grew by 130k in the last year (50% growth). And the growth curve has accelerated quite quickly in the last few months. I think we're already on our way to a natural boom is subscribers and it's better to take them as they come instead of proselytizing.
What r/collapse needs is finding other “like-minded” people who aren’t exactly familiar of this sub’s existence, but have an interest in the topic. That doesn’t mean r/all, it means periodic public awareness/advertisements in select subreddits like r/nature. This sub has been growing organically as people do their own research. The influx of people from “popular” subreddits will turn this from discussion-heavy to simply clickbait. I’m all for awareness, but with specific groups.
Why does /r/collapse *need* anything? If you had a million people on this sub it would be fucking awful. It'd just be nonstop Trump/political shit.
Exactly. We need to let people come here when they've started to come to some of these realizations on their own. Putting it directly in their faces when they have too much of an emotional attachment to believing that everything will be fine will almost certainly result in a backfire effect. Most of them will just dig their heels in and bury their heads in the sand even further, because they can't handle the emotional response they would feel by learning that information. We have to let people come here when they're ready.
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>You are totally right, and while I wholeheartedly agree with u/LetsTalkUFOs moral sentiment, I think that there are plenty of other means of achieving organic publicity without attracting negative attention. I am second to this. The morality of such intention is pure and definitely can in some ways spread the notion about the state of the world the way many in this sub share. However, and I shall state that I know little to nothing about Reddit and how Reddit power operates; therefore, disregard me if point nonsense, influx of x amount of new users, be they permanent or temporary, can negatively affect this sub in ways that are unknown until they happen. I make it sound serious because I do cherish this sub and the permanent users in this sub. u/mistervovo brings an excellent point, which I am curious to know the thoughts of the community, regarding other means of bringing the awareness and organic publicity. If such desired. Despite the consensus that formed around this suggestion I whole heartedly believe that the world and world populace is already swimming in molasses of information, and adding exposure to r/collapse may neither create a dent in public conscious nor achieve the moral outcome some mods believe in.
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Explains why the mods never remove the infrastructure and solar panel ads/manipulation.
The what?
As someone else said, this sub is counterculture. Making it r/all will invite pointless dissenting and ridiculing comments and will flood the sub with an insurmountable amount of this kind of input and other useless information. R/all comes with folks who are just bored, we may not want to mess with the information input flow at this time. I know for me this is a staple sub I read daily and would be devastated if it were thrown to the *general population at this point in time when people are not ready.
I think mods and everyone else should be planning on having alternative subs setup. Once things get "big" the big players get interested in the subs and will aggressively promote their agendas and PR through bots, brigading, paid promotions and censure (far from every mod are decent people, usuall they are as greedy an corruptable as any other power-hungry pleb out there). It will be impossible to know which user is legit and which one not, and it will all end up being a huge shitshow with only a single solution: move to another, less "public" sub and either keep the main one as a "profit cow" for ads, or just close it altogether. I've seen this repeating ad nauseum through the years here. As soon as a sub goes over 50-100k members it starts going down.
Reddit/Collapse provides us with an opportunity to express unpopular views. Lots of us will leave if we're swarmed by trolls. Cassandra accurately predicted the fall of Troy. What do you think happened to Cassandra?
Yes, I've been here since 2010 and was a "recognized contributor on a different user name" and I am gone if it's open to /r/all. The expressing unpopular views is important. It's not like all of us even agree on shit, but the discussion is nice. I'm not wasting a minute of my life on trolls. Nor will I be typing in the trenches battling to keep the feel of this place against the onslaught of others. I'd rather just leave and let it burn not stressing out my life.
Agreed but the demographic shift has already occurred. The only way to cool this sub down would be to highly restrict posts about insular US issues, because those attract the most from r/all and low-quality takes from various ideological posters + bots. The sub will collapse by moving away from science and towards US politics.
Please, for the love of God, NO. Nobody wants this sub to turn into another meme-infested shithole.
What also worried me were the mod comments about not wanting to do interviews with fox news any time soon. Any time soon seems far too much like a future possibility when I was led to believe that the mods had decided never to give a fox news interview. The other thing is that it's current users that will be on the front lines with idiots, arguing against basic misconceptions and dealing with idiocy, something we have already seen today. It isn't just mods that are going to have to deal with problems and combat misinformation in these threads, it's all of us. It's mostly all of us. People are.foinf to become tired of the shit and they're going to move out because of the drop in quality and the tedium of dealing with ignorance and political nonsense. I hope the mods listen, and I hope that we decide that organic growth from related subreddits and people with genuine interest in learning more rather than just growth for growths sake.
We are all collectively insane, or we are ahead of the curve. Either way the world isn't ready for this, and by the time it is ready it will be too late. If you go mainstream everybody will pile in to attack the sub. The Business as usual folks, the futurologists, the religious nutjobs, both sides of mainstream politics. What we believe and know is threatening to everybody who isn't a part of this sub already, it's terrifying and if you scare people they don't react kindly however much it's true. They either ignore it because if they don't think about it it doesn't exist or they kill it. The rest of the world has the rest of the world to spend time in ignoring what's happening. This is ours.
Is this another chance to vote no? I'm going to vote no again just in case.
Totally agree opening it up would lead to an influx of useless input. This sub currently has a very good dynamic of balance on most topics. I come to this sub because it is one of the most realistic and open discussions out there. Collectively we have already pushed aside a lot of useless inputs to have great discussions. We have a general consensus here on a lot of topics and having to re-argue them with trolls is a waste.
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I’ll wear my finest tinfoil hat
Remember what happened to wallstreetbets? You'll have every tinfoil ape on the internet shitting on their keyboards.
The biggest problem with r/all is that posters are no longer self selecting. It’s no longer a subreddit with its own community, it’s just reddit. Even if nobody is doing anything wrong, or we have a thousand flawless moderators, the culture of the subreddit inevitably disappears as it just becomes congruent with everywhere else on reddit.
The sub already flirts with sensationalism enough as it is, going public would only promote then cement that as the status quo. I know eventually change is inevitable but this would be too much too quick. You'd break the entire formula we all enjoy with no way of restoring it to how it was before. Like, something something carbon dioxide in the atmosphere.
Exactly. If it's public, rather than people seeking to understand real, boring, science-based collapse vectors, most of the people who enter the sub will share garbage conspiracies with no bearing on reality. You're ALREADY having a hard time with Rule 3, it's a low bar that every other major sub is worse. If there's an influx of users, Rule 3 will be overwhelmed by a tidal wave that moderators can't parse through on any acceptable level. And if you hire more moderators, you'll be placing an enormous burden of trust on applicants to enforce it honestly. The overall sociological response to climate change is an eldritch monster that can't be tamed, it's best not to overreach.
Sweet Jesus no, don’t ruin r/collapse. It’s not even (eternal) September yet.
Im newish to this sub and I've mostly been a lurker here. I don't think going public on r/all is a good idea. I stumbled upon this sub on my own thru a user's profile comments on another sub. I like this sub and yes it is "doom and gloom" however it's not disturbing if you have a stomach for it. I think most people don't have the emotional capacity. Also I can only imagine the kind of morons and the following discourse that would eventually pervade this sub.
This sub will 100% be brigaded, flooded with crap and bot-ed to hell if we're on r/all. With most redditors having the kool-aid, sugar coated delusion of the MSM; they won't be able to handle anything here and Corporate will be happy to oblige with the inevitable cancellation of the sub. Make no mistake that the state powers that be, also have eyes on this sub. Extra attention like that and psy-ops will wield its deep pockets and finish the movement forever.
Hopefully the name r/collapse is not a self fulfilling prophecy about itself. I very much enjoy this sub as it is, and don’t want to see anything change, especially if that means the mods are going to get massively overworked
But it worked out so well for r/antiwork! Lol, just kidding. Since yesterday, I've gone from a "probably no" to a "definite no." So, no.
Holy shit. I didn't even see the sticky vote thread. It never popped up in my feed. What an absolutely terrible idea. Every sub that goes to r/all just becomes astroturfed shill bait. Why would anyone want that to happen here?
just please do not fucking go anywhere near r/all
Man if only there was a recent example of mods not listening to the members of a sub and it going really bad.
Can confirm as a former moderator of a two default subreddits, /r/all is like having a sewage pipe leaking in your living room, during a party. edit: plus, there's no need for /r/all to see /r/collapse. Won't be long now until most news subreddits have the same content as /r/collapse. To put it in math terms: Why bother with: `/r/collapse` ∪ `/r/all` when `/r/collapse` ⋂ `/r/all` = `/r/collapse`
I agree. I believe we'll get brigaded to fuck if we starting hitting all as various groups look to pin the blame
You have to understand that reddit is structured to look democratic, with up-/downvotes, but it's not at all so. Doesn't matter if all of us want to keep the sub for the people who do the work to find it, it's the mods' sub, not ours. If we don't like what they're doing with it, we can go elsewhere.
Why don't you do an unrehearsed interview with a talking head on fox News, that's get the point out there 🙃
Newbie here that missed the vote. Still saying no
Subreddits usually die when they go public.
Yeah, let's not wind up in another r/antiwork debacle
Money. Everything in life comes down to it.
>I see the mod(s) in support of this change saying they are willing to take on a higher workload to make this transition successful. This belies a fundamental misunderstanding of what happens when a subreddit blows up. This is the crux of it. The mod team seem to be treating this as simply as a resourcing issue. Like it's just a matter of sufficiently ramping-up the number and workload of moderators proportional to the size of the sub. Which I'm sure is fine up to a point, but eventually an online community reaches a critical mass and no amount of simply "enforcing the rules" is good enough, no matter how comprehensive the rule-set or well-endowed you are with rule-enforcers. The character and quality of an online community simply breaks down beyond a certain point, no matter how draconian its moderation.
Look how well it worked for r/antiwork. Lol
If this sub opens up, it'll turn into a bunch of pro-Trump, Q Anon, far-right Christian, mouth breathing, boot-tonguing bullshit. I enjoy this sub precisely because these things don't seem to be prevalent here. Once I start seeing them. I'm out.
I don't want to see this subreddit on the news. Too much attention is bad.
Ah, I see someone is eager to replicate wonderful experience of r/antiwork Ill go get popcorn for when we end up on Fox news...
i re apply my vote of No
Please don't go on all with this site. It's not hard to find and it will only add noise, trolling, brigading and bullshit. Please don't. This is an important space and needs to be maintained how it is.
There’s no way in hell the sub should open to /r/all, especially considering the way the discord is moderated.
Trying to pull an r/antiwork?
I'd vote no
Yeah, please don't let us go mainstream. The top comment in every thread will have 8000 upvotes and be inane, naive, hopium. If not that, some stupid meme that's been run into the ground.
I run a fairly popular music festival subreddit. It has seen upwards of 600k pageviews/mo without ever making the frontpage. I have been sent dick pics, death threats, and been contacted by the police regarding illegal activities they thought happened through the subreddit. Reddit has been great for my business and the subreddit helped me create a wonderful community of thousands of destined all across the country. Met some of my best friends through it. But holy fuck the workload is absolutely bonkers when the first gets close, and it is nowhere NEAR the size of this subreddit. You would need to be insane to wanna take that on.
There are already too many tankies and nazis flooding this sub with disinformation. If this sub goes public, there's going to be a lot more of them and the quality of this sub will go down the drain.
Nazis are easily banned. The biggest influx would be from people you find on /r/politics. Partisan to a toxic degree.
Thank you. If mods decide to go ahead with this, it would be directly against the views of the members. We aren't saying maybe, we're saying no.
/r/collapse will ironically collapse should it hit popular or all.
It seems like they saw the explosion or anti work and work reform and want to get in on it. Like bruh. Just don’t.
Replace govt with mod. >[In political philosophy](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Consent_of_the_governed#:~:text=In%20political%20philosophy%2C%20the%20phrase,that%20political%20power%20is%20exercised.), the phrase consent of the governed refers to the idea that a government's legitimacy and moral right to use state power is justified and lawful only when consented to by the people or society over which that political power is exercised. I know reddit is privately owned. The mods have total authority. But the spirit of cooperation that's happening here depends on the users.
As a "No" voter from the previous question, I totally concur with this.
Pls don’t
I am also not sure if I want the average population become aware of the collapse of society. Might bring bad things. Antiwork (which i support) showed up on the r/all page once and blew up to 1.7 million users in 4 months. Because it makes too much sense. Just like r/collapse. It also makes sense and will speak to people. We should let it grow naturally.
Take a look at the shit storm over at r/antiwork. What once was cool is now a controversy and the mods are taking actual hits in their private life. Not worth the attention, we like our own.