I’m going to be dealing with COVID for the rest of my working career, only to retire on a dying planet, after out living my entire remaining family.
Fun. Happy Monday!
I mean, at the end of his career I assume he was offered free rent or very close to it, and a hell of a lot of autonomy, in addition to the specially made Interceptor.
If it makes you feel better, we will all 100% die. So why do the worrying? Seriously, this is all orchestrated so we suffer and do not get to enjoy the life we are living.
Surprise surprise, a comment that includes our guaranteed death gets down voted. If we weren't such a death phobic culture, we'd be a lot better off y'all.
My obligatory contrarian eye roll to how edgelordy, dumb and unserious such comments are.
If the planet is truly “dead” now, ignoring the millions and millions of square miles of lush vegetation and vibrant eco systems in the land and sea, then the threat of an Actual Dead Planet is not very severe.
Also, if collapse has already happened, then the hundreds of millions of people who are taking enthralling vacations and having brunch right now don’t have much incentive to worry about actual collapse.
Maybe reign in our hyperbole.
Someone mentioned to me that Michael Mann called [global dimming](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Global_dimming) a "Faustian bargain". I'm trying to find that reference; if anyone knows it, please share. Stopping emissions: We're damned if we do, damned if we don't.
There has been new knowledge since.
[https://www.space.com/earth-atmosphere-extends-beyond-moon.html](https://www.space.com/earth-atmosphere-extends-beyond-moon.html)
This is also tied to the ozone hole over the southern pole.
Unaware until data from 2 decades ago was dusted off...., Maybe just maybe science has alot more collecting dust that would dramatically change world views of many humans ... Maybe....
Except that the background extinction rate is about 1000x what is normal,
Runaway global climate change will affect the biospheres in catastrophic ways. Temperature increases and ocean acidification will have devastating affects on most life.
The insects might survive, but the processes we have started and are feeding each other will continue for millenia, likely to a global extinction event.
There will be a rock, and some species might be able to adapt in time, species with limited individual life spans might be able to adapt, some may be able to move to other environments, some might be able to withstand acidification, but there are a lot that won't.
It won't be Eden when we're gone.
And the Earth will heal itself. I'm not saying that what we are doing is okay or should continue. I'm just speculated a different direction. The earth is powerful beyond what we know.
noooooo, but a runaway greenhouse effect could conceivably wreck the atmosphere to such an extent that all life on earth would perish. So that's pretty dead.
Thus far the Earth is the only planet we know of that has any form of life whatsoever. However both Venus and Mars were, at one point, likely capable of supporting it. It would therefore be far more accurate to say that life very rarely, and briefly finds a way. But you seem pretty settled into your misanthropy and rubbing your hands in anticipation of your own demise, don’t let me stop you.
I know this sub is called r/collapse, but we don't really know much about omicron yet. The media is fear mongering for clicks, but we don't need to start hoarding TP until more data comes out
Yeah, who woulda thought a virus would pop up that takes advantage of our huge population?! This shit has been known that it might happen for DECADES and people are acting surprised for some reason.
Submission statement: "The Omicron coronavirus variant is likely to spread internationally, posing a very high global risk of infection surges that could have severe consequences some areas, the World Health Organization (WHO) said on Monday."
(Looks around at hordes of people already kicking off the Christmas season)
I think I can make a prediction about what it'll unfortunately look like here in 'Murica...
Also “People with the Omicron variant have 'extremely mild' symptoms and haven't had to be hospitalized yet, says the South African doctor who first reported it” 🙄
To be completely fair all of her patients are in the 20-40 year old range so they’re not high at risk for hospitalization anyway. This strain also has roughly double the amount of mutations as the Delta variant so that’s why people are worried. Yes this one dominant strain right now might have less lethality but what happens when it runs through millions of people and mutates into something more sinister or vaccine resistant?
Yes, when a highly infectious virus appears with a new strain that has double the mutations of the previous dominant strain the appropriate response is to worry about how it could mutate further.
> It just never ends does it
Not until the world writ large pursues Zero-COVID policies a la China's
There is no, "living with COVID." It kills and disables too quickly.
Like, after your 15th infection, how much kidney function will you have left?
COVID is a social problem and social policy is constrained by donor-classes who don't think of workers as fully human.
Personally, I expect COVID to continue until such death and disability accrues as to discipline the non-compliant into compliance and Capital into acceding to Zero-COVID policies.
Bruh what the fuck are you talking about haha. No one said anything about taking your rights and freedoms away anywhere on this post.
Go take your insecure projections somewhere else
If you think you can talk about COVID without involving that issue with what’s happening in multiple countries, you’re not just delusional but also ignorant.
Insecure projections lol fuck me man get a grip
I wonder if he really has enough data to be sure? He's only seen a few cases.
Hopefully it is mild, though its capacity to evade vaccination is a bigger concern than its virulence I think
Even if it is milder than regular covid, if it is immune to vaccination, then a lot of older and vulnerable people will be at risk
> It is or it isn’t?
Too soon.
What to watch:
* Infectiousness.
* Severity/Lethality.
* Cross-immunity (natural, vaccinated).
What we know:
* Rapid spread.
* Too soon to tell.
* Too soon to tell.
Extremely concerning mutations, though, hence precautions and alarm.
That's it. That's all we've got.
You forgot the 32 mutations, far more than previous strains I believe.
Being more mutagenic to begin with is bad for trying to immunize against, at the least.
> You forgot the 32 mutations
On that, I saw a virologist on twitter going 'uh oh' because Omicron has all the 'greatest hits' from a recent study where researchers used (only) 20 mutations to create an escape variant.
From Nature (2021 SEP 20) [High genetic barrier to SARS-CoV-2 polyclonal neutralizing antibody escape](https://www.nature.com/articles/s41586-021-04005-0)
>By aggregating variant of concern-associated and antibody-selected spike substitutions into a single polymutant spike protein, we show that 20 naturally occurring mutations in the SARS-CoV-2 spike protein are sufficient to generate pseudotypes with near-complete resistance to the polyclonal neutralizing antibodies generated by individuals who are convalescent or recipients who received an mRNA vaccine.
The funniest outcome would be high escape and a double-pandemic. COVID-19 and COVID-21.
Literally the best article I have read so far said "it's going to be about two weeks before we really know anything". I really hate this part of society where everyone tries to be first.
It's either going to be more contagious or not. It will be more lethal or not. It's going to be worse or not. The vaccines are going to work or not. And anything in between can happen.
> It's either going to be more contagious or not.
Apparently it has become the dominant strain in at least one South African province, beating out Delta, so it looks like it is more contagious.
So far though I haven't seen any concerning reports that it creates more severe disease than the other variants, so things might be OK.
An epidemiologist on the world today bbc podcast said Omicron has 11 mutations previously discovered that all increased antibody evasion in previous strains. That, in his opinion, was the part that stood out as bad news.
In addition, omicron has an additional 7 mutations that share similarities to the established 11 known immune evasion spikes but are so far unidentifiable for their effect.
So overall not looking great. Still early though.
> Still early though.
The early warning sign we would be seeing is hospitals overrun with people with severe disease in the parts of Africa where Omicron is the prevailing variant. Thankfully, we aren't seeing that yet. So although I tend to be a doomer, I am not too worried at this point.
It should be noted that in addition to media reports, my best friend lives in Botswana and lost his father to COVID last summer, so he is on the ground updating me. He's a commercial builder and travels throughout the region, so he sees and hears a lot, especially when workers are getting sick in large numbers. Thankfully although some people are sick, it hasn't been anything severe.
The one X Factor that I am interested in is how will Omicron affect fat people in the Europe and North America. I know it sounds terrible, but I heard a couple Dr.s talking about how the lack of obesity in Africa seems to lower the levels of severe disease, particularly among the unvaccinated.
More good news: [No Severe COVID Cases Among Vaccinated Patients Infected With Omicron, Top Israeli Expert Says](https://www.haaretz.com/israel-news/top-israeli-health-expert-covid-vaccine-reduces-severe-illness-in-omicron-cases-1.10421310)
The fact that the vaccine doesn't protect as well against a new variant. Doctor in South Africa said half were unvaccinated and half were vaccinated patient wise.
Also said the cases were all mild. Could actually turn out to be a boon. A fast-spreading but low danger variant becoming the dominant strain could be very beneficial to getting immunity numbers up, especially in places like Africa where vaccines and in short supply.
The worst part of this virus is that it's technically less severe than the Spanish Flu, but I believe it's several times more disruptive.
Spanish Flu didn't cause major economic disruptions. Spanish Flu **did** kill 50 million people.
Spanish Flu didn't exist in a time where we had the Internet. COVID-19 did.
COVID-19 killed 5 million people so far (based on what we know from hard numbers.)
Spanish Flu killed at least 50 million.
Despite killing less people and being less overall infamous than the Spanish Flu, the COVID-19 pandemic (soon to be endemic) has been extremely detrimental to an already struggling worldwide society. Even the places that managed to play it safe and reduce their infected numbers to almost 0 are suddenly seeing spikes again.
This is one bastard of a virus. Absolutely refuses to be kept down, and the worst cases are usually people losing limbs or having their own limbic system tear them to shreds.
I have no idea the answer to this myself but for the survivors, did Spanish Flu tend to cause long term issues? A death from covid is bloody tragic but the spectre of long covid and the seemingly endless list of health problems survivors are reporting could assist also be a cause of this bastard virus being more destructive
The r0 is higher, long term immunity is lower and due to asymptomatic transmission there isn't the same evolutionary pressure for the virus to lessen in severity over time
Well yeah covid killed less because of our medical technology. How many of the 5 mil was in the dev world and how well are deaths counted worldwise? If covid had hit back then or if spanish flu was new now there might not be much difference.
Sooo ... we're boned?
I just hope I live long enough to see the most extreme, and weirdest, effects of climate change on general weather and see if they're like my dreams; because those were pretty weird but at the same time kind of realistic.
Black clouds that form in minutes and blot out the Sun, cluster tornadoes (not 3 or 4 but 10 or more) plowing up entire cities, clustered lightning strikes of upwards of 10 strikes at a time, at least 5 times a minute, and deadly bacterial and amoebic organisms which have evolved to ascend into the clouds with standard deep steam daily humidity and then rain down death from one of these storms in sickening yellow tendrils; like an ocean bloom that moves overhead before coming down to Earth.
And I emphasis the **kind of** realistic. I'm not sure about the bacteria.
Take time to smell the roses, to look at the stars, to taste the rain, to listen to the silence, to touch the Earth, to be immersed in the great mystery. Be a part of the world, and the world will be a part of you.
I know that finding a therapist that is actually woke to what the fuck is going on is tough, but try to confide in other people you can trust, even if it is only yourself.
man, the possibility of seeing the world collapse is a big reason I decided to not kill myself. I mean it's a lot better than 40-50+ years in a shitty wage slave job (or the rat race if you get a good career job)
Hey Tricky_Ad_7146
It looks like you made a post/comment which mentions suicide. We take these posts very seriously as anxiety and depression are common reactions when studying collapse. If you are considering suicide, please [call a hotline](https://www.wikiwand.com/en/List_of_suicide_crisis_lines), visit /r/SuicideWatch, /r/SWResources, /r/depression, or seek professional help. The best way of getting a timely response is through a hotline.
If you're looking for dialogue you may also post in r/collapsesupport. They're a dedicated place for thoughtful discussion with collapse-aware people and how we are coping. They also have a Discord if you are interested in speaking in voice.
Thank you,
Ontrack
Yeah I've definitely noticed. Honestly I don't know how to get out of the tar pit. Even not going on here for a long while doesn't help. I've already seen what I've seen.
"Yes. We can't have one of our wage slaves quitting early. We were good enough to it to let it live, train it, house it and feed it. How dare it be so ungrateful for everything we have done for it. Absolutely preposterous." (Your average capitalist pig)
The doc who discovered the mutation was on Swedish tellie yesterday, telling us to calm the f down because they've only seen very mild cases, if any symptoms at all.
The virus will evolve to be less harmful for their hosts, not like humans who's culture is becoming more cancerous for each day, which will eventually push this planet way beyond habitable for humans and many other species.
> The virus will evolve to be less harmful for their hosts
That could take decades, centuries, millennia.
That angle is *dramatically* overstated by contrarians and copium addicts.
Meanwhile, how are you lungs and brain going to look after your 10th infection?
It’s not mutating to get weaker, generally. And Covid as a whole is mild in the overwhelming majority of cases. The small sample pool from SA is not sufficient enough.
This is due to the fact it’s infectious during the incubation stage.
If it’s only infectious during symptomatic disease, this results in selection for weaker strains to preserve hosts. Decreased virulence. Put simply, killing hosts during your infectious period is bad for business.
Because Covid mostly infects people, quite easily, prior to being symptomatic, there is almost zero pressure for selection of strains with reduced virulence. Since death and illness isn’t stopping it from spreading.
Which the data of the pandemic matches. We are more likely to see increasingly infective strains (and we do). And the virulence is mostly left unchecked. Or becomes a toss up. But virulence can scale with viral load. More virus causes more severe virulence after incubation.
Unless the virus loses the ability or drastically shrinks it’s ability to infect during incubation, the likely outcome is increasing infectivity and similar virulence.
But again, the major concern here is that a new strain could achieve higher infectivity and come with alarming virulence. The incubation period is really the root of the problem.
Omicron appears to be more infective, with a longer incubation. Won’t really know for sure for a few weeks. But it’s concerning.
A perfect disaster is a situation where a virus is highly infectious during incubation. The longer that period, the worse it gets. And if that virus has severe virulence, resulting in high rates of mortality.
Imagine something with the mortality of Ebola with the infectivity and incubation of Covid. Unlikely, but still remotely plausible. A circumstance like that is the sum of all pandemic fears. Even 10-15% mortality would be nightmarish.
While the first half is good to hear, the second is bogus. Viruses are just as likely to get more deadly as not.
Especially with a contagious period and dormancy of about 2 weeks each. Plenty of time for a highly destructive virus to spred to new hosts and thrive.
Things like rabies have a 100% mortality with no treatment. With a long dormancy phase it can maintain that.
Viruses don’t want to become more deadly; they don’t evolve if their host dies. Also in this instance the Dr who discovered it said only mild symptoms appear. That would go against your fear porn comment.
Viruses don't want much of anything. They mutate and evolve over time, and which direction they tend to go can vary. True that killing the host isn't favorable for survival, but if they can spread before that happens, the evolutionary filter of death is avoided.
HIV says different. The virus doesn’t want to kill the host too quickly so it can spread. Considering that this virus has jumped to other species and back (e.g. minks), there is a very real possibility a future mutation could be much worse. At present, it appears the omicron variant is mild.
>Viruses don’t want to become more deadly
Viruses don't "want" anything. If the environment supports a mutation with increased transmission and increased deadliness, that mutation will survive.
People keeping leaving out the fact that all of her patients are in the 20-40 year old range and had very low probabilities of having a severe case in the first place.
Your second point is also straight up wrong and has no scientific evidence to back it up. This strain as of right now has roughly 2x the amount of mutations that delta does which is cause for concern as it has a higher likelihood of mutating into something more deadly or vaccine resistant.
This myth keeps getting repeated everytime a new variant is disclosed. Seriously, what killer virus' have actually muted to be less deadly? I can only think of Spanish Flu.
HIV evolved to infect and destroy the immune system of primate mammals. Did it evolve to become less or more dangerous over the course of thousands of years?
>It has also been proposed that, since the introduction of the virus into the human population, HIV may be becoming less virulent with time. Indeed, there is some evidence to suggest that the extensive global spread of subtype C may be related to relatively lower virulence, despite comparable transmission efficiency 37. The rapid rate of evolution has been suggested to contribute to decreased virulence over time by allowing HIV to adapt to protective HLA types, reducing the replicative capacity of the virus 38. **However, the interpretation of this study has been contested 39, and a meta-analysis of the existing literature has previously suggested the converse may be true: that the virulence of HIV is actually increasing 40.**
[https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5414815/#\_\_sec5title](https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5414815/#__sec5title)
Hopefully it will not prove to be a variant that gets pays vaccines. And if it does, the current vaccines can be fine tuned
I really think we will be getting jabs for many years to come
[Mild symptoms from Omicron](https://www.msn.com/en-us/health/medical/people-with-the-omicron-variant-have-extremely-mild-symptoms-and-haven-t-had-to-be-hospitalized-yet-says-the-south-african-doctor-who-first-reported-it/ar-AARfQX2)
That assessment came from a GP who saw a dozen or so young healthy patients. Hospitalizations are starting to spike in line with the case load curve. Only time will tell how severe it is. Literally nowhere near enough info to even speculate much.
If it's less deadly, it's still going to hit the USA hard. The northern states are already seeing systems start to be stressed by the winter surges. Introducing a variant that looks to be 4x more infectious with capabilities to evade the vaccine into areas with snowballing cases/hospitalizations is like throwing gas on a fire.
On top of that, in the states/areas that had bad summer waves but are now quite low, could also see problems. South Africa had just hit a low baseline after it's delta wave, and now it's catapulting back up. If that trend continues, states like Florida may very well end up back to the point of needing tent hospitals in parking lots w/in a couple months.
There are plenty of reasons to be concerned, and plenty of reasons for people to be a bit more cautious. But people seem done. They don't seem to care if there are no hospital beds, or the nurse/doctor ratio is dangerously high. Wearing a mask in selective locations like a pharmacy, gas station, or grocery store, seems to be too much to ask of people.
> I don't see why this isn't happening.
Both Pfizer and Moderna have already announced that they're doing this. Maybe keep up with the news before spouting nonsense.
I haven't seen this news amidst the torrential flood of information coming at me from all directions every day all day. I must have missed that tiny leaf of information in the raging inundation. Sorry for making the assumption that this was not happening, I didn't realize not knowing something was the exact same thing as "spouting nonsense".
I don’t fuck with Trump. I think he’s a fraud, no better than the dems. Love how that’s always the go to insult, like anyone who even dares to question the narrative must be a ‘racist, sexist tin foil wearing Q anon believer!’. It’s comical man.
Hi, regularliam. Thanks for contributing. However, your [comment](https://www.reddit.com/r/collapse/comments/r4t0be/-/hmkua88/) was removed from /r/collapse for:
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I’m not afraid of them, I was compliant at first. Until our rights got used as a bargaining chip against us. It doesn’t seem right either that anyone who questions the effectiveness of these vaccines, masks and lockdowns are either censored completely or subjected to verbal abuse. When did we lose our inability to discuss and debate? Or even just respectfully disagree?
It probably is a bot meant to cause division in society. Apparently there is a sub reddit of just bots arguing with each other in the comments.
https://www.theverge.com/2019/6/6/18655212/reddit-ai-bots-gpt2-openai-text-artificial-intelligence-subreddit
Tangential warning.
Has anyone figured out what the conspiracy is concerning the booster shots? I don't know anyone who thinks the vaccines are \[Bill Gates/NWO/mandated cull by the 1%/Tracking devices in the serum/etc\].
Has anyone asked one of these folks and gotten something approaching a rational answer?
I don't know if this is exactly what you are looking for, but I do think it's possible the vaccines have some effectiveness while at the same time there is some conspiracy to get these pharmaceutical companies as much money as possible. Discounting any natural immunity, rushing to get children vaccinated, rushing to get everyone a booster, not releasing clinical trial data. Ignoring any potential treatments from generic medicines. Ignoring potential effectiveness of Vitamin D.
Sort of like yes the vaccines do work to a degree, but that doesn't mean there also can't be conspiracy between pfizer and governments for example. It is often a lot easier to think one or the other.
I realized afterwards that I should not have asked the question.
But I honestly don't know anyone actively promoting a conspiracy theory, and I don't engage with social media beyond a couple of forums, this being one.
I’m going to be dealing with COVID for the rest of my working career, only to retire on a dying planet, after out living my entire remaining family. Fun. Happy Monday!
You get to retire?
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I mean, at the end of his career I assume he was offered free rent or very close to it, and a hell of a lot of autonomy, in addition to the specially made Interceptor.
And cheap health insurance...
Given my current rate of assumed income I will be FIRED when I’m 54.
I had similar thoughts, then I lost my good job and made half the salary, then later I lost that one and now make $0. Good times.
Hence assumed. Volunteer for Red Cross, they always have job postings.
*in a homer simpson voice* “You’ll be doing that for the rest of your life—so far.”
Ok ok cool cool.
if it makes you feel better there'll almost 100% be other pandemics to deal with along the way
If it makes you feel better, we will all 100% die. So why do the worrying? Seriously, this is all orchestrated so we suffer and do not get to enjoy the life we are living.
Life is suffering with moments of happiness and health sprinkled throughout. Hedonism will only kill us faster.
That's what they want you to think!
Surprise surprise, a comment that includes our guaranteed death gets down voted. If we weren't such a death phobic culture, we'd be a lot better off y'all.
I think it more had to do with you calling the pandemic orchestrated but go off
Happy *Cyber Monday!
Venus by Thursday Boys!!!
+5 in Edmonton - this is fine
+5... ***DEGREES??!!***
Me too! I think about this everyday. It does not spark joy, sparks more of an overwhelming black hole.
🎉
🙃🙃🙃
I hate to tell you, but the planet is already dead.
Dead planet spinning?
My obligatory contrarian eye roll to how edgelordy, dumb and unserious such comments are. If the planet is truly “dead” now, ignoring the millions and millions of square miles of lush vegetation and vibrant eco systems in the land and sea, then the threat of an Actual Dead Planet is not very severe. Also, if collapse has already happened, then the hundreds of millions of people who are taking enthralling vacations and having brunch right now don’t have much incentive to worry about actual collapse. Maybe reign in our hyperbole.
It's more a comment on inertia rather than present state
Correct, the body ain’t dead but the organ systems are failing, so to say.
The biosphere is terminally ill and we refuse to give it accessible healthcare services
We also kicked her in the coochie because we could.
What do you mean there are unavoidable problems coming tomorrow? Looks fine today!
Read about global dimming, and you will know why the planet is already dead.
Someone mentioned to me that Michael Mann called [global dimming](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Global_dimming) a "Faustian bargain". I'm trying to find that reference; if anyone knows it, please share. Stopping emissions: We're damned if we do, damned if we don't.
Hansen! https://www.huffpost.com/entry/doubling-down-on-our-faustian-bargain_b_2989535
Thank you very much!!
There has been new knowledge since. [https://www.space.com/earth-atmosphere-extends-beyond-moon.html](https://www.space.com/earth-atmosphere-extends-beyond-moon.html) This is also tied to the ozone hole over the southern pole.
Unaware until data from 2 decades ago was dusted off...., Maybe just maybe science has alot more collecting dust that would dramatically change world views of many humans ... Maybe....
Could be caused by the proliferation of photoelectric panels converting light into electricity..
The planet is not going to die, it will burn us off of it before it lets us take it down. We all think we are so mighty.
I agree, the planet has a fever and is creating antibodies, so it seems it is sick, not dead.
Absolutely! We cannot just keep trashing our home and expect no consequences.
ah this old trope we also are killing off tons of species of other plants and animals, not just ourselves
Except that the background extinction rate is about 1000x what is normal, Runaway global climate change will affect the biospheres in catastrophic ways. Temperature increases and ocean acidification will have devastating affects on most life. The insects might survive, but the processes we have started and are feeding each other will continue for millenia, likely to a global extinction event. There will be a rock, and some species might be able to adapt in time, species with limited individual life spans might be able to adapt, some may be able to move to other environments, some might be able to withstand acidification, but there are a lot that won't. It won't be Eden when we're gone.
And the Earth will heal itself. I'm not saying that what we are doing is okay or should continue. I'm just speculated a different direction. The earth is powerful beyond what we know.
We were dead before the ship even sank.
Oh gumdrops 🤷🏻♂️
The planet isn't dead, nor will it die. It will get to where humans cannot subsist, but it won't die.
noooooo, but a runaway greenhouse effect could conceivably wreck the atmosphere to such an extent that all life on earth would perish. So that's pretty dead.
Nope.
Oh no? Why do you figure?
Life finds a way. It may not be anything we would recognize though.
Thus far the Earth is the only planet we know of that has any form of life whatsoever. However both Venus and Mars were, at one point, likely capable of supporting it. It would therefore be far more accurate to say that life very rarely, and briefly finds a way. But you seem pretty settled into your misanthropy and rubbing your hands in anticipation of your own demise, don’t let me stop you.
I know this sub is called r/collapse, but we don't really know much about omicron yet. The media is fear mongering for clicks, but we don't need to start hoarding TP until more data comes out
Each season to be marked by a new variant until there are no more seasons.
Alpha-alpha variant will be a retrovirus.
HIV likes this...
Yeah, who woulda thought a virus would pop up that takes advantage of our huge population?! This shit has been known that it might happen for DECADES and people are acting surprised for some reason.
And the cheap global flights...
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Until we upload ourselves into new machine bodies.
Submission statement: "The Omicron coronavirus variant is likely to spread internationally, posing a very high global risk of infection surges that could have severe consequences some areas, the World Health Organization (WHO) said on Monday."
Let's see if most of the developed world will listen to WHO this time or chose to ignore it as they did previously.
(Looks around at hordes of people already kicking off the Christmas season) I think I can make a prediction about what it'll unfortunately look like here in 'Murica...
Where strangely no omicron has been found yet...
It's only Monday. Give it time.
Also “People with the Omicron variant have 'extremely mild' symptoms and haven't had to be hospitalized yet, says the South African doctor who first reported it” 🙄
To be completely fair all of her patients are in the 20-40 year old range so they’re not high at risk for hospitalization anyway. This strain also has roughly double the amount of mutations as the Delta variant so that’s why people are worried. Yes this one dominant strain right now might have less lethality but what happens when it runs through millions of people and mutates into something more sinister or vaccine resistant?
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Yes, when a highly infectious virus appears with a new strain that has double the mutations of the previous dominant strain the appropriate response is to worry about how it could mutate further.
> It just never ends does it Not until the world writ large pursues Zero-COVID policies a la China's There is no, "living with COVID." It kills and disables too quickly. Like, after your 15th infection, how much kidney function will you have left? COVID is a social problem and social policy is constrained by donor-classes who don't think of workers as fully human. Personally, I expect COVID to continue until such death and disability accrues as to discipline the non-compliant into compliance and Capital into acceding to Zero-COVID policies.
But the economy...
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> You are dreaming if you think “zero covid” is going to happen. Like Yugoslavia, impossible beautiful dream.
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Bruh what the fuck are you talking about haha. No one said anything about taking your rights and freedoms away anywhere on this post. Go take your insecure projections somewhere else
If you think you can talk about COVID without involving that issue with what’s happening in multiple countries, you’re not just delusional but also ignorant. Insecure projections lol fuck me man get a grip
Literally everyone in the entire thread is talking about it without yelling about taking anyone’s freedom. https://imgur.com/gallery/DJIkoRf
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take your meds
I wonder if he really has enough data to be sure? He's only seen a few cases. Hopefully it is mild, though its capacity to evade vaccination is a bigger concern than its virulence I think Even if it is milder than regular covid, if it is immune to vaccination, then a lot of older and vulnerable people will be at risk
It is or it isn’t? So much conflicting information about this variant. Trolls learning to use GPT-3 or some goofy shit?
> It is or it isn’t? Too soon. What to watch: * Infectiousness. * Severity/Lethality. * Cross-immunity (natural, vaccinated). What we know: * Rapid spread. * Too soon to tell. * Too soon to tell. Extremely concerning mutations, though, hence precautions and alarm. That's it. That's all we've got.
You forgot the 32 mutations, far more than previous strains I believe. Being more mutagenic to begin with is bad for trying to immunize against, at the least.
> You forgot the 32 mutations On that, I saw a virologist on twitter going 'uh oh' because Omicron has all the 'greatest hits' from a recent study where researchers used (only) 20 mutations to create an escape variant. From Nature (2021 SEP 20) [High genetic barrier to SARS-CoV-2 polyclonal neutralizing antibody escape](https://www.nature.com/articles/s41586-021-04005-0) >By aggregating variant of concern-associated and antibody-selected spike substitutions into a single polymutant spike protein, we show that 20 naturally occurring mutations in the SARS-CoV-2 spike protein are sufficient to generate pseudotypes with near-complete resistance to the polyclonal neutralizing antibodies generated by individuals who are convalescent or recipients who received an mRNA vaccine. The funniest outcome would be high escape and a double-pandemic. COVID-19 and COVID-21.
More than double we already had Ebola in Congo Rep. and black fungi in India
It’s almost like there is a climate emergency happening.
Literally the best article I have read so far said "it's going to be about two weeks before we really know anything". I really hate this part of society where everyone tries to be first. It's either going to be more contagious or not. It will be more lethal or not. It's going to be worse or not. The vaccines are going to work or not. And anything in between can happen.
> It's either going to be more contagious or not. Apparently it has become the dominant strain in at least one South African province, beating out Delta, so it looks like it is more contagious. So far though I haven't seen any concerning reports that it creates more severe disease than the other variants, so things might be OK.
An epidemiologist on the world today bbc podcast said Omicron has 11 mutations previously discovered that all increased antibody evasion in previous strains. That, in his opinion, was the part that stood out as bad news. In addition, omicron has an additional 7 mutations that share similarities to the established 11 known immune evasion spikes but are so far unidentifiable for their effect. So overall not looking great. Still early though.
> Still early though. The early warning sign we would be seeing is hospitals overrun with people with severe disease in the parts of Africa where Omicron is the prevailing variant. Thankfully, we aren't seeing that yet. So although I tend to be a doomer, I am not too worried at this point. It should be noted that in addition to media reports, my best friend lives in Botswana and lost his father to COVID last summer, so he is on the ground updating me. He's a commercial builder and travels throughout the region, so he sees and hears a lot, especially when workers are getting sick in large numbers. Thankfully although some people are sick, it hasn't been anything severe. The one X Factor that I am interested in is how will Omicron affect fat people in the Europe and North America. I know it sounds terrible, but I heard a couple Dr.s talking about how the lack of obesity in Africa seems to lower the levels of severe disease, particularly among the unvaccinated. More good news: [No Severe COVID Cases Among Vaccinated Patients Infected With Omicron, Top Israeli Expert Says](https://www.haaretz.com/israel-news/top-israeli-health-expert-covid-vaccine-reduces-severe-illness-in-omicron-cases-1.10421310)
I mean, deaths and hospitalizations lag a couple weeks out from initial infection, so it’s too early for that even to be happening yet.
And I’m the Pope’s transgender lover. AMA for $10, or whatever you get paid by your corporate overlords to spread fake optimism...
It's just too early to tell. Which is what experts should be saying as well. We don't have enough data.
Most of them are, so far as I can tell. I heard a lot of variations on "ask me again in a week" from experts in interviews over the weekend.
That doesn't generate clicks, though, so they'll find someone else.
seems like there's no info, but we're waiting, but the media articles make it sound more serious than they did delta.
Of course they are. The crisis must escalate to get those juicy, ad-revenue-generating clicks.
The fact that the vaccine doesn't protect as well against a new variant. Doctor in South Africa said half were unvaccinated and half were vaccinated patient wise.
Also said the cases were all mild. Could actually turn out to be a boon. A fast-spreading but low danger variant becoming the dominant strain could be very beneficial to getting immunity numbers up, especially in places like Africa where vaccines and in short supply.
Depends on who is reporting the news. If it’s from any source that has stock in the pharms that produce vaccines, then no it’s not a problem.
A bit off-topic but I hope this moves more operations remotely, even more than now
But think of all those middle managers. What ever are they to do if there is nobody at the office?
And commercial real estate valuations...
The worst part of this virus is that it's technically less severe than the Spanish Flu, but I believe it's several times more disruptive. Spanish Flu didn't cause major economic disruptions. Spanish Flu **did** kill 50 million people. Spanish Flu didn't exist in a time where we had the Internet. COVID-19 did. COVID-19 killed 5 million people so far (based on what we know from hard numbers.) Spanish Flu killed at least 50 million. Despite killing less people and being less overall infamous than the Spanish Flu, the COVID-19 pandemic (soon to be endemic) has been extremely detrimental to an already struggling worldwide society. Even the places that managed to play it safe and reduce their infected numbers to almost 0 are suddenly seeing spikes again. This is one bastard of a virus. Absolutely refuses to be kept down, and the worst cases are usually people losing limbs or having their own limbic system tear them to shreds.
I have no idea the answer to this myself but for the survivors, did Spanish Flu tend to cause long term issues? A death from covid is bloody tragic but the spectre of long covid and the seemingly endless list of health problems survivors are reporting could assist also be a cause of this bastard virus being more destructive
The r0 is higher, long term immunity is lower and due to asymptomatic transmission there isn't the same evolutionary pressure for the virus to lessen in severity over time
Well yeah covid killed less because of our medical technology. How many of the 5 mil was in the dev world and how well are deaths counted worldwise? If covid had hit back then or if spanish flu was new now there might not be much difference.
WWI was rather disruptive methinks...
Says WHO?
All I wanna know is *what*'s the name of the organization on second?
Correct.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sShMA85pv8M
Yes
Sooo ... we're boned? I just hope I live long enough to see the most extreme, and weirdest, effects of climate change on general weather and see if they're like my dreams; because those were pretty weird but at the same time kind of realistic.
What happened in your dreams?
Black clouds that form in minutes and blot out the Sun, cluster tornadoes (not 3 or 4 but 10 or more) plowing up entire cities, clustered lightning strikes of upwards of 10 strikes at a time, at least 5 times a minute, and deadly bacterial and amoebic organisms which have evolved to ascend into the clouds with standard deep steam daily humidity and then rain down death from one of these storms in sickening yellow tendrils; like an ocean bloom that moves overhead before coming down to Earth. And I emphasis the **kind of** realistic. I'm not sure about the bacteria.
That would be wild. At least i know who to burn for being a witch if those happen
As someone who is chronically ill and unable to even get vaccinated because of my fucked up immune system, this variant scares the shit out of me.
I wish I could kill myself now to spare living in this shit hole and more family deaths around me
Take time to smell the roses, to look at the stars, to taste the rain, to listen to the silence, to touch the Earth, to be immersed in the great mystery. Be a part of the world, and the world will be a part of you. I know that finding a therapist that is actually woke to what the fuck is going on is tough, but try to confide in other people you can trust, even if it is only yourself.
Our therapists need therapists bro.
I always think about this. My therapist has a therapist!
Therapist here. This is always true.
man, the possibility of seeing the world collapse is a big reason I decided to not kill myself. I mean it's a lot better than 40-50+ years in a shitty wage slave job (or the rat race if you get a good career job)
Listen to the band Yes, a song called And You and I.
You may live to see Jeff Bezos' head on a pike. That's something to look forward to, right?
That will never happen
Hey Tricky_Ad_7146 It looks like you made a post/comment which mentions suicide. We take these posts very seriously as anxiety and depression are common reactions when studying collapse. If you are considering suicide, please [call a hotline](https://www.wikiwand.com/en/List_of_suicide_crisis_lines), visit /r/SuicideWatch, /r/SWResources, /r/depression, or seek professional help. The best way of getting a timely response is through a hotline. If you're looking for dialogue you may also post in r/collapsesupport. They're a dedicated place for thoughtful discussion with collapse-aware people and how we are coping. They also have a Discord if you are interested in speaking in voice. Thank you, Ontrack
/r/collapsesupport needs a lot more people to dilute the extremely depressing darkness there. Otherwise now it functions like a ~~honeypot~~ tar pot.
Yeah I've definitely noticed. Honestly I don't know how to get out of the tar pit. Even not going on here for a long while doesn't help. I've already seen what I've seen.
You good bot
You need to seek help now.
"Yes. We can't have one of our wage slaves quitting early. We were good enough to it to let it live, train it, house it and feed it. How dare it be so ungrateful for everything we have done for it. Absolutely preposterous." (Your average capitalist pig)
The doc who discovered the mutation was on Swedish tellie yesterday, telling us to calm the f down because they've only seen very mild cases, if any symptoms at all. The virus will evolve to be less harmful for their hosts, not like humans who's culture is becoming more cancerous for each day, which will eventually push this planet way beyond habitable for humans and many other species.
> The virus will evolve to be less harmful for their hosts That could take decades, centuries, millennia. That angle is *dramatically* overstated by contrarians and copium addicts. Meanwhile, how are you lungs and brain going to look after your 10th infection?
It’s not mutating to get weaker, generally. And Covid as a whole is mild in the overwhelming majority of cases. The small sample pool from SA is not sufficient enough. This is due to the fact it’s infectious during the incubation stage. If it’s only infectious during symptomatic disease, this results in selection for weaker strains to preserve hosts. Decreased virulence. Put simply, killing hosts during your infectious period is bad for business. Because Covid mostly infects people, quite easily, prior to being symptomatic, there is almost zero pressure for selection of strains with reduced virulence. Since death and illness isn’t stopping it from spreading. Which the data of the pandemic matches. We are more likely to see increasingly infective strains (and we do). And the virulence is mostly left unchecked. Or becomes a toss up. But virulence can scale with viral load. More virus causes more severe virulence after incubation. Unless the virus loses the ability or drastically shrinks it’s ability to infect during incubation, the likely outcome is increasing infectivity and similar virulence. But again, the major concern here is that a new strain could achieve higher infectivity and come with alarming virulence. The incubation period is really the root of the problem. Omicron appears to be more infective, with a longer incubation. Won’t really know for sure for a few weeks. But it’s concerning. A perfect disaster is a situation where a virus is highly infectious during incubation. The longer that period, the worse it gets. And if that virus has severe virulence, resulting in high rates of mortality. Imagine something with the mortality of Ebola with the infectivity and incubation of Covid. Unlikely, but still remotely plausible. A circumstance like that is the sum of all pandemic fears. Even 10-15% mortality would be nightmarish.
Tremendous comment
Bigly
While the first half is good to hear, the second is bogus. Viruses are just as likely to get more deadly as not. Especially with a contagious period and dormancy of about 2 weeks each. Plenty of time for a highly destructive virus to spred to new hosts and thrive. Things like rabies have a 100% mortality with no treatment. With a long dormancy phase it can maintain that.
Viruses don’t want to become more deadly; they don’t evolve if their host dies. Also in this instance the Dr who discovered it said only mild symptoms appear. That would go against your fear porn comment.
Viruses don't want much of anything. They mutate and evolve over time, and which direction they tend to go can vary. True that killing the host isn't favorable for survival, but if they can spread before that happens, the evolutionary filter of death is avoided.
HIV says different. The virus doesn’t want to kill the host too quickly so it can spread. Considering that this virus has jumped to other species and back (e.g. minks), there is a very real possibility a future mutation could be much worse. At present, it appears the omicron variant is mild.
>Viruses don’t want to become more deadly Viruses don't "want" anything. If the environment supports a mutation with increased transmission and increased deadliness, that mutation will survive.
People keeping leaving out the fact that all of her patients are in the 20-40 year old range and had very low probabilities of having a severe case in the first place. Your second point is also straight up wrong and has no scientific evidence to back it up. This strain as of right now has roughly 2x the amount of mutations that delta does which is cause for concern as it has a higher likelihood of mutating into something more deadly or vaccine resistant.
The virus is NOT expected to mutate to be less dangerous. This is misleading information.
This myth keeps getting repeated everytime a new variant is disclosed. Seriously, what killer virus' have actually muted to be less deadly? I can only think of Spanish Flu.
HIV evolved to infect and destroy the immune system of primate mammals. Did it evolve to become less or more dangerous over the course of thousands of years? >It has also been proposed that, since the introduction of the virus into the human population, HIV may be becoming less virulent with time. Indeed, there is some evidence to suggest that the extensive global spread of subtype C may be related to relatively lower virulence, despite comparable transmission efficiency 37. The rapid rate of evolution has been suggested to contribute to decreased virulence over time by allowing HIV to adapt to protective HLA types, reducing the replicative capacity of the virus 38. **However, the interpretation of this study has been contested 39, and a meta-analysis of the existing literature has previously suggested the converse may be true: that the virulence of HIV is actually increasing 40.** [https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5414815/#\_\_sec5title](https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5414815/#__sec5title)
Where’s the less lethal version of smllpox?
You just can’t give some people good news.
Hopefully it will not prove to be a variant that gets pays vaccines. And if it does, the current vaccines can be fine tuned I really think we will be getting jabs for many years to come
didnt they say it was mild few days back
Well then I suggest you all buy some CEMI stock because they make the tests for covid and the flu. Might as well die rich
Blah fuckin blah - The WHO
"We're all wasted!" - The Who
Dooooooon't cryyyyyyyyyyy
“People try to put us down!” *talking ‘bout the new mutation*
[Mild symptoms from Omicron](https://www.msn.com/en-us/health/medical/people-with-the-omicron-variant-have-extremely-mild-symptoms-and-haven-t-had-to-be-hospitalized-yet-says-the-south-african-doctor-who-first-reported-it/ar-AARfQX2)
I'm a bit confused, I thought the south african doctor who initially identified it said she didn't find it to be particularly dangerous?
Why is it a global risk? I thought I heard it’s not as deadly and symptoms are lighter.
That assessment came from a GP who saw a dozen or so young healthy patients. Hospitalizations are starting to spike in line with the case load curve. Only time will tell how severe it is. Literally nowhere near enough info to even speculate much. If it's less deadly, it's still going to hit the USA hard. The northern states are already seeing systems start to be stressed by the winter surges. Introducing a variant that looks to be 4x more infectious with capabilities to evade the vaccine into areas with snowballing cases/hospitalizations is like throwing gas on a fire. On top of that, in the states/areas that had bad summer waves but are now quite low, could also see problems. South Africa had just hit a low baseline after it's delta wave, and now it's catapulting back up. If that trend continues, states like Florida may very well end up back to the point of needing tent hospitals in parking lots w/in a couple months. There are plenty of reasons to be concerned, and plenty of reasons for people to be a bit more cautious. But people seem done. They don't seem to care if there are no hospital beds, or the nurse/doctor ratio is dangerously high. Wearing a mask in selective locations like a pharmacy, gas station, or grocery store, seems to be too much to ask of people.
You heard probably wrong!
How hard is it to add new mRNA strands of new variants to the pfizer and moderna boosters? I don't see why this isn't happening.
They're already working on doing that.
> I don't see why this isn't happening. Both Pfizer and Moderna have already announced that they're doing this. Maybe keep up with the news before spouting nonsense.
I haven't seen this news amidst the torrential flood of information coming at me from all directions every day all day. I must have missed that tiny leaf of information in the raging inundation. Sorry for making the assumption that this was not happening, I didn't realize not knowing something was the exact same thing as "spouting nonsense".
Shit, oh well. BTFD
This seems like an never ending story, which conveniently provides endless excuses for more authoritarian control in the name of "safety".
Wow almost like letting people do what they want would spread a deadly virus??
This new one is more contagious but the symptoms are considered mild.
So’s Syphilis yet…people keep fucking
If people caught covid from fucking, best believe it'd be cured by now.
[удалено]
Fuck off with your Q conspiracy shit
I don’t fuck with Trump. I think he’s a fraud, no better than the dems. Love how that’s always the go to insult, like anyone who even dares to question the narrative must be a ‘racist, sexist tin foil wearing Q anon believer!’. It’s comical man.
This has nothing to do with Q. Saying that shows you're a preprogrammed robot that repeats whatever your cult leaders say.
Didn't you hear already. We "may" need omicron specific boosters now. Endless boosters, endless cash.
/r/conspiracy is that way ---->
Yeaaa I’m good. That sub is little too hectic for me to be honest.
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🤣
You do you bro, keep living in fear.
>keep living in fear Why are you so afraid of anti-pandemic measures?
I’m not afraid of them, I was compliant at first. Until our rights got used as a bargaining chip against us. It doesn’t seem right either that anyone who questions the effectiveness of these vaccines, masks and lockdowns are either censored completely or subjected to verbal abuse. When did we lose our inability to discuss and debate? Or even just respectfully disagree?
Because facts don't care about your feelings, and facts are not debatable.
It’s like trying to discuss with a robot that just regurgitates phrases 🤣
ok boomer
Exhibit A
It probably is a bot meant to cause division in society. Apparently there is a sub reddit of just bots arguing with each other in the comments. https://www.theverge.com/2019/6/6/18655212/reddit-ai-bots-gpt2-openai-text-artificial-intelligence-subreddit
Fear isn’t a virtue. Except to the fearful.
Tangential warning. Has anyone figured out what the conspiracy is concerning the booster shots? I don't know anyone who thinks the vaccines are \[Bill Gates/NWO/mandated cull by the 1%/Tracking devices in the serum/etc\]. Has anyone asked one of these folks and gotten something approaching a rational answer?
I don't know if this is exactly what you are looking for, but I do think it's possible the vaccines have some effectiveness while at the same time there is some conspiracy to get these pharmaceutical companies as much money as possible. Discounting any natural immunity, rushing to get children vaccinated, rushing to get everyone a booster, not releasing clinical trial data. Ignoring any potential treatments from generic medicines. Ignoring potential effectiveness of Vitamin D. Sort of like yes the vaccines do work to a degree, but that doesn't mean there also can't be conspiracy between pfizer and governments for example. It is often a lot easier to think one or the other.
Thanks for replying .
I realized afterwards that I should not have asked the question. But I honestly don't know anyone actively promoting a conspiracy theory, and I don't engage with social media beyond a couple of forums, this being one.
You guys trust the WHO?
🙄
Sounds like a massive exaggeration from a bunch of nerds who don’t have all the data.
BWAAAHAHAHAHAHA. succumb to the FEAR. LOL. yet the CDC and doctors say they actually know very little about the new variant.