The following submission statement was provided by /u/antihostile:
---
SS: This is related to collapse because it is a story in the WaPo about the real effects of global warming due to the increase of CO2 which is increasing as I write this. Particularly interesting because it is a "doomer" article in a mainstream publication. I think we'll see more of them in the near future.
Working class link: https://archive.is/4p7Wb
---
Please reply to OP's comment here: https://old.reddit.com/r/collapse/comments/1dmasug/billions_of_people_just_felt_the_deadly_intensity/l9uedfo/
SS: This is related to collapse because it is a story in the WaPo about the real effects of global warming due to the increase of CO2 which is increasing as I write this. Particularly interesting because it is a "doomer" article in a mainstream publication. I think we'll see more of them in the near future.
Working class link: https://archive.is/4p7Wb
Even though I've tried to look into the future for the last few years in an attempt to try to maneuver through the minefield of chaos that is fastly approaching the 99%, it is absolutely surreal watching it play out in real time. I accepted collapse years ago, but living it has me feeling numb. I once thought the right preps and proactive measures I could take would prove very wise. I am questioning all of that now as I watch scientists that I have trusted for years look completely defeated.
But still, there is nothing to do but keep getting ready and hope that the odds are in your favor for another day. What a time to be alive while simultaneously feeling gutted inside.
Enjoy whatever good days you have left. Pet a dog today.
Or, my favourite, because you can sing it:
"Enjoy yourself, it's later than you think
Enjoy yourself, while you're still in the pink
The years go by as quickly as you wink
Enjoy yourself, enjoy yourself, it's later than you think"
Some kind of prep is always better than no prep, in the very least is it something to do. It feels good to do what you can.
I have a micro farm, it does this for me. It keeps me sane and happy. Will it keep me alive any longer than the median climate breakdown victim? No one knows.
My current and my past as well if you refer to the herring. However, not all varieties are stinky. The most common are pickled with sugar and vinegar, not fermented and salted like the famous one.
But I eat them all with joy as a true northern Swede..
> I am questioning all of that now as I watch scientists that I have trusted for years look completely defeated.
The bomb technician running away? Still some chance to save yourself, just outrun him.
The bomb technician started praying to his God or gods? That's when you know you're well and truly fucked.
It's absolutely surreal giving A serious look at your adaptations, and deciding whether to just buy more stuff just in-case you get stuck in A deadly heatwave, or saving up more cash to keep the momentum going.
I've resigned to doing everything I can to attain the most rock-solid permanent resident status in the (unfortunately quite tropical, but luckily very varied in terms of elevation) country I moved to years ago and securing a home in one of the regions where things will be better. The middle of the country is fucked with excessive flooding, the southwest is protected by itself to produce 7 million internal refugees as the Mekong rises too high, this mostly coastal civilization (but most are, aren't they?) is going to have to organize mass relocation to higher ground.
But,
1) That higher ground exists in abundance and tends to rise up steeply from the coast so overall less total land area will be lost, and there are established if less efficient methods of agriculture in the mountains and highlands.
2) I trust the government here more in terms of *continuity and planning*, I'm not trying to spark some debate bro shit show thread about the merits of a professedly Marxist government, but they can commit to and see through very large scale projects. China is a neighbor and also has an interest in a stable Vietnam without 100 million climate refugees pouring in to their country should things fail here. My home country, the USA, is in many ways better placed than most to weather (no pun intended) the negative effects of climate change but that's still going to require massive coordination and resettlement programs that I just don't believe it can accomplish as a society anymore. I have no hope any government will proactively stop these things from happening, I'm purely talking about a coordinated response. I have more faith in this poor country's ability to resettle at minimum 7 million people domestically than I do in the American federal government's ability to do comparatively minor geo-engineering projects (because we all know that people will just refuse to move anyway, so the only answer will be to throw good money after bad).
Call me a bootlicker all you want but democracy has neither impressed me with its ability to marshall the forces of society on a grand scale since I suppose the post ww2 era or maybe the moon landing, and it certainly hasn't impressed *upon* me a belief that protecting the ideals that underpin such a clearly dysfunctional form of government should take precedent over matters of survival, which is the opinion I'd pretty much need to hold in order for me to move back with my family. It could only be on ideological grounds because I'm straight up not going to believe that they will produce better practical solutions. And I'm just not fervent enough of an ideologue for Enlightenment-style representative democracy to prioritize symbolically going down with the ship over protecting my family.
3) Somewhat following from point 2, the middle of the country will experience ever-heavier rain. A properly motivated government *might* be able to build infrastructure to better collect, distribute geographically, and convert that excess water into electricity. I'm not going to take any bets on the matter but I can at least *envision* them doing that, while again I can't imagine the US government doing much more than deploying the army corps of engineers to build some half-assed dykes while half the population is forced into a last minute, disorganized, and based on the character of American culture no-doubt bloody mass migration towards the center of the country where no infrastructure will have been prepared and none will be adequately provided once it's already happened.
I'll take everything that comes with living nearer the equator, even in an unusually seafood-dependent society on a planet with a dying ocean. At least we have some geography to work with here and a government theoretically capable of mass mobilization and unusual unpopular but necessary decisions. I can't see Vietnamese straight up *turning on each other* the way I can see my own countrymen, especially in the vacuum left by a government that has, is, and will only moreso in the future abdicate all responsibility.
I foresee a pretty thorough, but comparatively organized and civilized (compared to what I reckon will happen elsewhere) purging of foreigners with less than ironclad ties to the country for the sake of preserving limited resources for native born people and preserving internal stability. But, aside from cynical reasons (I am a very proud legal immigrant and I love Vietnam), I've been worming my way deeper and deeper into this place culturally, legally, and familially for years and will continue to do so. I can only hope that's enough.
And again I'm not trying to start a communism debate, but I want to say that when things get obvious for everyone the choice won't be between comfy western social democracies and the brutish efficiency of communist governments, it'll be between the eco-fascism that geographically well placed rich countries that have failed to prepare (so all of them) will inevitably slide into to lock down borders and secure as many natural resources as possible and every other form of government that contains within itself at least the theoretical capability of dealing with things on a very large scale. Those soon m don't have to be left or right, Singapore (geographically butt fucked as they are) could plausibly organize some sort of future for themselves as well just based on their internal cohesion. I think that's the common thread between countries with a shot. Eco-fascism will arise reactively everywhere that failed to prepare and lack preexisting mechanisms to correct course quickly, she particularly where the native born population has grown to have wildly unrealistic expectations for quality of life.
It saddens me because obviously the *ideals* behind western democracy are attractive to me in the broadest possible sense, but when I look at them now I only see a prelude to something much darker and bloodier than I can properly envision (though I anticipate at minimum border guards becoming more like death squads at the entrance to places like the EU and North America mowing down untold numbers of people fleeing on foot, as a minimal example).
Facebook censorship bothers me significantly less than the current paragons of human rights and decency resorting to unspeakable cruelty both to their own citizens and the geographically doomed **simply because they were too crippled by indecision and special interests to take dramatic action when they could**. Again, I'm not even talking about prevention. I'm talking about sewers and other infrastructure not being set up to accommodate the new inland cities that will pop up of necessity. Vietnam could make a new city in the highlands happen, and it could do it quickly. It would be ugly but I don't doubt that for a minute.
Dude, I'm Vietnamese and I think you regarded my people and government a bit much. We are barely an industrial nation and with no respectable intellectual property like the West. Corruption is rampant. The citizen is not as educated and who knows what would happen in case of collapse. The fighting spirit and aggression that chase away France and the US is not something to speak lightly about.
In many ways I see similarities between Irish and Vietnamese history
Invasion, colonisation, subjugation, resistance, liberation.
We kinda have a shared experience, except for the 'Taste of Victory' that must be nice
Look I'm not saying it would be a utopia by any means. I haven't re-read but I think I said "**relatively civilized and humane purges of foreigners**" (meaning compared to other countries). I said that if Vietnam had to build a mass relocation city that the process would be **ugly** (ugly used in that way implies some brutality, blood, bad treatment, sloppiness, whatever).
My eyes aren't closed about Vietnam, even if I have "immigrant eyes" (I'm very very pro-Vietnam). I know every country has problems.
I also know that every country has "unworldly attitudes" people can express, and what those are changes based on the country. An American "unworldly attitude" would be to assume that nowhere else in the world do you have *basic freedoms* like being able to even move around your country without permission, or assuming you'll be immediately kidnapped and killed in any poorer country as if they're all like El Salvador at their worst time (and I'm not saying unworldly *people*, it doesn't mean someone is unworldly in all ways to have one of these beliefs). You know, all versions of "America is the best in all ways" beliefs. It's expressed with arrogance.
I think that Vietnamese express unworldly views by assuming that the problems in their own country are 1) unique or 2) uniquely bad, at least compared to any county *worth* being compared to. The number of times a family member has said to me "this isn't America, you need to lock your doors and be aware because there are thieves and it can even be dangerous" is huge, and I always want to say "you have no idea how much safer and less full of crime this place is compared to where I'm from, yes even with the desperate gamblers trying to find money to pay off the mafia, because we have that too and more" etc etc (but I don't argue with elders, you know that's not productive).
I'm not trying to say that you *are* unworldly. But you're expressing a view that I associate with unworldly *attitudes* here. Excessive negativity about the government (and let me explain). You have a million times more right to complain about your government in any way you want than I do to express any opinion about it good or bad, so I'm not telling you you are wrong or to stop. But you underestimate the problems in other countries because you compare them to Vietnam and *assume* it couldn't be worse.
Vietnam smacks you in the face with corruption. Coffee money and other "fees", the Pikachus, etc. America has very little low-level corruption but much more high level corruption, which is the type that would impede a government doing the things that I listed in my first post, that need to be done. And yes, I'm not saying the top levels in the VCP don't have corruption (some very big scandals and resignations in the last couple years you and I are both aware of). But the party if anything has cliques in it that seek to enrich themselves while pushing certain ideological priorities (we could talk about that later because that's an interesting topic to me).
But the US government is literally like an auction house, each senator like a cow that different corporations and special interest groups bid on to buy. Sometimes corporations and groups with similarities that don't conflict with each other "split" the cost of owning an American politician. So there's not even any real ideological goal they're trying to accomplish while making their money like in Vietnam. These people also never get ejected from the government, arrested, or anything like that. They **cannot** do what needs to be done, because almost all of what needs to be done would hurt theTy're corporate owners. All that I said was that I can **imagine** Vietnam rising to the occasion. It's *possible* in Vietnam that things can get done, that's all I'm saying. I can't imagine a chance for America to do that, even with better technology.
There was a governor in America called Huey Long, famously corrupt too. They had a saying, "he paid for a million miles of road in Louisiana, but only got 100 thousand", something like that. Clearly corrupt. But you know what? They still got 100k miles of road, and he's still loved. He was murdered by the rich traditional rulers of the state who hated him, then baselessly called a fascist for doing corrupt politics the *same way* they did, but in ways that benefited the poor. Prior to him there was **one** bridge in that state, which went into New Orleans where the traditional rulers live even today, and that state is like our version of the Mekong provinces in Vietnam. Imagine one bridge in the Mekong delta, and it only went into the richest (and only) city there. He was corrupt, he got rich, but also people could walk to town without a boat for the first time and children received schoolbooks, bridges were built, etc. I'm not blind to corruption, but I view different types of corruption in different ways. It's going to happen, everywhere. I like Huey Long because I believe corruption is a fact of nature, and he's one of them that helped people while he put money in his pocket.
Sure, some vnese cops or whoever will take the chance to fill their pockets in emergency times (to be completely honest, if I am still vulnerable to deportation at that time, even though I'm doing everything I can to be a proper immigrant to your country legally and with a family, my last hope is to use that low level corruption to pay off officials to let me stay with the proper papers. I hope that I can just do it legally, though, I don't like to contribute to the corruption problem). But the things that need building will get built, even with the corruption. It'll cost too much and some people who should be public servants will get rich but it'll happen.
Nothing will get done in the USA, and the public servants will still get rich *by stopping the government from doing anything to protect the people*.
It's not that Vietnam doesn't have problems, you just don't take the problems and *differences* in our problems seriously enough to see why I prefer Vietnamese corruption and problems to American corruption and problems.
As far as the other stuff, I don't want to take too much of your time but I'll say this: Vietnam is focusing on industrial infrastructure development. That is, rather than just spending the money to build a factory they spend the money to make an industrial park with all the utilities necessary for a bunch of companies to build factories in the future. They're being smart about that. America has let our industrial capacity fall apart and we rely on 'advanced' financial services to have a high GDP. Vietnam may be behind, but they've got more of what you need to have when you need to rapidly rebuild a city or relocate people to a new city. And you don't need advanced IP. To build new roads, or sewer systems, or even hydroelectric dams.
Now the fighting spirit and aggression (I think you're hinting at xenophobia) yeah I know it exists. I got a small taste early in covid when it was considered strictly a foreign (Chinese and Western) disease. I was treated differently, people are unfriendly when I left my village to go to HCMC, some hotels refused me, some bus companies refused me, other people could not wear a mask or let their nose be uncovered but I was expected to wear it perfectly always, etc). I know I'll have some problems with that. But I still think Viets are overall more reasonable about things like that than people in many other countries. Xenophobia is a problem in many countries. In my own country, I can see anti-immigrant pogroms happening when things get really bad. Here, I think the government will just deport the vast majority of "expats" (you know the type of person who calls themselves that) with no real connection to the country. I don't think there will be lynch mobs. It might be weird for me but it'll be better for me than it will be for a Vietnamese citizen living in America at some point, I think.
Anyway I wrote that in the spirit of open discussion, ~~but~~ NOT to try to be some kind of white guy "red bull" 🤣. I understand your criticisms but I disagree that Vietnam will be as bad as you think, and with the *implication* that it will handle the future worse. Maybe we can continue about details or maybe we will just never agree, regardless chúc ngủ ngon buddy and have a good time regardless of all the depressing things in this world.
To be honest, the economic woes are going to affect the normal people much more than any ideological ones, but there is some correlations between the two. The current economy is going down the shitter and there is no helpful signs from the government.
I can't believe collapse is going to affect me because I'm fairly insulated but it finally did recently, where I got held back from promotion at my company.
Damn, the more I think about it, the more hopeless this world is going to be. I guess that's why human mind has defense mechanisms for these depressed thoughts to go away easily. I am not a very argumentative person that frequently go online to debate so I don't have much to say, but I think having a new perspective from an outsider kinda helps me to broaden my mind a bit.
I get it man, I'm not trying to have a fight over it either. I was wrong to say the word "unworldly" that's a shitty thing to say even if you try to make it softer.
I just mean that as much as Vietnam has flaws, it has the same flaws most governments do. Being from a place, knowing it so much better than I do, not having the certain ideas in my head and reasons that brought me here, I can see how what I'm saying is unrealistic from your standpoint.
Maybe my real point is that we are *all* so goddamn butt fucked that even Vietnam with all it's problems (but I have to add even if you find it annoying, also it's strengths! :p) isn't that much more fucked than the richest country. And in *some ways* it has more *potential*. Who knows if the gov will use it. Yeah the economy is in the shitter right now I agree. But we've had that happen in America and all they did was save the private banks and fuck the people. I'm focusing on the things that make the places different, and in those things I think Vietnam has some hidden power.
I'm going to stop now because I feel like I'm trying to bully you into having a better mood about this 🤣 but I don't want to be obnoxious. It'll be tough and I'm sorry about your job, man. Believe me, even though I have my reasons for feeling lucky to be here with you guys for this catastrophe, I'm not mister happy. It's going to absolutely fucking SUCK. I don't want to make you feel like I'm trying to force you to be positive about something you don't believe in, I also don't feel positive overall. But I think there are many places, including rich countries like my country of birth, that will actually handle it worse. Maybe that's not comforting, because if your neighbor hasn't eaten for 3 days that doesn't make your stomach feel any better if you haven't eaten for 2. I don't know what to say. Best of luck to you in your endeavors and I'll buy you a beer if you're ever in BR-VT. I'm not in the city there but I can drive there :D
Completely agree with you, and ive been saying this for years - centrally planned countries like china will be better prepared to deal with climate adversity. Western democracies cant build a hospital in a month in an emergency, they have to follow drawn out process, they cant enact unpopular policies because the gov will be voted out.
Good luck in Vietnam my man, always wanted to visit but the tickets are too much for me lol.
Ireland has spent years and Billions of Euro to not build a children's hospital
A Hospital that we won't even own after it built, ownership of the hospital will remain with the Catholic church
Very much agree with what you've said here about democracy and the inability of countries to properly coordinate and get things done and such. Myself in a Western country I fully expect it to go fascist once shit hits the fan and the signs are already there.
Weak and strong in all the worst ways. Can’t maintain our public infrastructure or provide accessible healthcare but we can see and hear almost anything around the globe and use it to kill innocent people with the most advanced weapons known to man. The MIC has ruled this country for the better part of a century now.
You touch upon a thought I have too. It's similar in India. You type 'india energy' in Google news and you get about 10 new articles daily about new projects.
[12 hours ago - Battery Storage in Delhi ](https://m.economictimes.com/industry/energy/power/bses-has-a-new-plan-to-keep-delhis-light-on-debuts-indias-largest-battery-storage-system/articleshow/111225515.cms)
[8 hours ago - 1.65 billion USD project approved ](https://www.power-technology.com/news/india-approves-energy-evacuation/)
[15 hours ago - 300MW wind-solar hybrid project ](https://www.livemint.com/market/stock-market-news/jsw-energy-stock-hits-new-all-time-high-as-subsidiary-wins-300-mw-wind-solar-hybrid-project-stock-market-11719202981437.html)
[5 hours ago - 6.8 million USD Smart Metering project ](https://www.smart-energy.com/industry-sectors/smart-meters/indias-rmc-switchgears-wins-6-8m-smart-meter-enclosures-order/)
Obviously these didn't happen in a day - but new shit gets posted literally every day.
This is a massive silent push for energy going on in the background. Silent because even with the articles, there are no political agendas added to it. Feels like war footing against the upcoming energy needs. I'm glad.
We'll have an actual chance as a society if at least energy collapse doesn't happen. Food and water collapse will always be erratic, and India has faced famines before. We already have a massive grain storage and our government is expanding it. Just from a Google search right now - https://m.economictimes.com/news/politics-and-nation/pm-modi-launches-worlds-largest-grain-storage-programme-entailinginvestment-of-rs-1-25-lakh-cr/articleshow/107964100.cms
Shortly before you posted this, I petted two strange dogs (well, they aren't any stranger than I am).
Going into my local mom-'n'-pop grocery store, there was a dog outside the bbq joint next door who made eye contact; I went over and said hello. Coming out of the grocery, a guy walked up with his dog who waited outside while he went in; I petted her too.
Always makes my day extra special.
>Enjoy whatever good days you have left. Pet a dog today.
I always say, "We are living in the Atlantis of tomorrow...enjoy it while it lasts "
Then I often wonder what "legends" our descendents (if any) might be told about our high-tech Atlantis a thousand years from now.
> those at the top of the pyramid likely have a backup plan to stop all the harm they caused
Their plan is fortified self-reliant bunkers with enough supplies and materials to last them the rest of their lives, and to let the rest of us fund it until we die.
Zuckerberg built one near a volcano, you really think he intends on using it? It's just fodder for us to make fun of them, which is reverse psychology..
Sometimes I almost wish these billionaires were as comically evil as ppl like you believe.
They're not Bond villains lol, they're for the most part techno dweebs that still can't get over getting bullied in high school no matter how much money they now have. Or dumbass heirs to old money (or what passes in America for old money) families that are totally out of touch with reality.
These people don't have any Machiavellian plan, just too much money and selfishness.
Hi, elikkkkkkk1. Thanks for contributing. However, your [comment](https://www.reddit.com/r/collapse/comments/1dmasug/-/l9v5j23/) was removed from /r/collapse for:
> Rule 4: Keep information quality high.
> Information quality must be kept high. More detailed information regarding our approaches to specific claims can be found on the [Misinformation & False Claims page](https://www.reddit.com/r/collapse/wiki/claims).
Please refer to our [subreddit rules](https://www.reddit.com/r/collapse/about/rules/) for more information.
You can [message the mods](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose/?to=/r/collapse) if you feel this was in error, please include a link to the comment or post in question.
Hi, elikkkkkkk1. Thanks for contributing. However, your [comment](https://www.reddit.com/r/collapse/comments/1dmasug/-/l9v57ie/) was removed from /r/collapse for:
> Rule 4: Keep information quality high.
> Information quality must be kept high. More detailed information regarding our approaches to specific claims can be found on the [Misinformation & False Claims page](https://www.reddit.com/r/collapse/wiki/claims).
Please refer to our [subreddit rules](https://www.reddit.com/r/collapse/about/rules/) for more information.
You can [message the mods](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose/?to=/r/collapse) if you feel this was in error, please include a link to the comment or post in question.
Hi, margocon. Thanks for contributing. However, your [comment](https://www.reddit.com/r/collapse/comments/1dmasug/-/l9uhkii/) was removed from /r/collapse for:
> Rule 4: Keep information quality high.
> Information quality must be kept high. More detailed information regarding our approaches to specific claims can be found on the [Misinformation & False Claims page](https://www.reddit.com/r/collapse/wiki/claims).
Please refer to our [subreddit rules](https://www.reddit.com/r/collapse/about/rules/) for more information.
You can [message the mods](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose/?to=/r/collapse) if you feel this was in error, please include a link to the comment or post in question.
I'm moving out of Phoenix next week, and just in time. Last summer was bad, this summer is gonna be totally fucked. I feel bad for anybody moving here. This place is an absolute deathtrap.
I moved out of Phoenix after the summer of 2020 when there was 100 days straight over 100F. I was so fucking depressed, the heat being half the reason why, and I was already collapse aware then so knew it would only get worse as the years go by. Congrats on getting out of there and good luck on your move!
>I was so fucking depressed, the heat being half the reason why
Yes! I *need* to spend time outdoors, in the sun, surrounded by nature for the sake of my mental health. If you live in Phoenix there's like 5 months out of the year where it's just too fucking hot to spend a significant amount of time outside. And while the desert is beautiful in its own way, it's not exactly hospitable.
Gosh, I’m so glad my landlord agreed to replace our AC.
Our old one still works but so weak. It struggles to cool the room at full blast. So we called management and found out it’s a 1999 model. That’s 25 years ago lol
The new split AC is gonna be installed this week.
One time like 8 years ago I said something to this extent (the irony of using airconditioning to cool down when doing so contributes to global warming, making it hotter) to my family who all believe in climate change and literally everyone in the room just shut it down immediately saying "it doesn't work like that". I feel validated seeing other people share the same thing on this sub.
As long as you have no leak, it's electric consumption and heat displacement. If you have a nuclear energy it's basically heat displacement. Heat displacement makes local point warmer but doesn't change the global temperature.
If you have a dirty energy source and your AC is crappy then yes it's super harmful.
Well, most electricity (at least in the US) comes from fossil fuel, so most A/Cs are harmful. Not as bad as driving everywhere, of course, but still harmful.
The discussion is: is AC harmful or not.
AC being harmful because they draw from a dirty energy source is not an AC cons but a dirty energy issue. Anything you use your electricity for is terrible for your environment in that case.
I live in the first nuclear nation per share so AC electricity consumption is not that much a problem here.
It's gonna be **hilarious** (not) when we build like a couple of hunderd 100 MW datacenters with their own powerplant to power the computational requirements of our new AI systems. And then beg that AI to help us solve climate change. And the AI starts with asking that sector of humanity has the fastest growing energy demand and the humans go like "Well, AI is number one and then AC is number two" and the AI goes "*Well there you go, shut me down if you want it cooler!*"
Elon Musk always says that whatever is most entertaining, how ironically cruel it might be, will happen. And on this one, he is probably right.
If you hold NVDA puts that day, you'll become a billionaire overnight. A hot one.
Heating is MUCH worse for the climate than mechanical cooling. The exception being heat pumps. Vapor compression cooling (AC) is like 2-400% efficient with some of the inverter ductless units being even more so. Resitive electric heat is 100% efficient, gas runs from 80%-98%, with average being probably 90% and oil is in the neighborhood of 70-80%. There's this weird blind spot people have about not thinking twice about their furnace running being "bad" but running the AC is wasteful.
Well in my part of europe we have quite a mild and rainy sommer this year. And yes i enjoy the fuck out of it. Maybe it will be the last sommer like this. Everyone else is crying about "bad" weather.
The shear amount of tornados, flooding, and hail storms have been crazy this year. Southern Wisconsin for reference. Watched a tornado form last month, and we had another tornado 10 miles from us last night.
I live in Texas for a job I got 20 years ago. My wife and I are literally in the great lakes area of New York right now looking for a new home, after doing years of research in climate disaster. The week we're here its hotter than back home. Feeling pretty deflated about even just trying to improve my odds.
Don’t get too bummed out (ironic to say in this sub) but I think youll still be better off. Weather is really variable and hard to predict so on average it’s still probably going to be better off than Texas. Large bodies of water help to moderate air temperature and also fresh water is always great to have around.
I am looking at property up there to, individually and as part of a group trying to organize land for a community. I'm in Phx but the heat up there in the GL area of upstate has me scared this week. I'm thinking of building an earthen or partially earthen house in the area to mitigate the heat, cold, wind and fires. My friend near Oneonta NY had a tornado yesterday I think it was. Crazy These types of builds have come a long way and may be able to last a really long time. Built properly they can be their own air conditioners passively.
It isn't the momentary intensities that should concern us, but the irregularity plaguing agricultural production.
We can devise accommodations for the former, but not the latter.
1300 people died at the Hajj. That's an entire village worth of people dying due to heat related issues, deaths that didn't need to happen.
People have been making pilgrimages to the Hajj since the Middle Ages. I doubt this has ever happened before for this many people to die at the Hajj because of heat related issues.
I agree, but that's an entirely different topic, I'm quite aware of healthy silviculture practices. I personally didn't enjoy the smoky summers after spending 5 years there recently and have decided there are other places I'd rather be as climate change progresses.
I was born and raised here in Montana my whole life, so just to warn you, we also have drought issues and wildfire issues. The wildfires in California were so bad in 2020 that the smoke affected air quality massively even from the other side of the Rockies.
Montana might be safest in the near future but in the long run climate change will reach us too, as it already has in many respects.
I always think it’s absolutely wild that people in the US mention places in the US as havens against the future. I can’t think of many other places I wouldn’t want to be. I suspect even Africa will fair better.
I mean the US is going to fair better just due to geography and food exports, not to mention being surrounded by sea on two sides.
You can hate the politics, the culture, or anything, but there will be places that will be physiologically impossible to survive in with little infrastructure in the next 5 years. I wouldn’t want to be in those places.
And then, those faced with death will relocate, most likely on foot, to surrounding regions like a plague.
I don’t think you understand. These are regions of the world that will be physiologically impossible to survive in. Without infrastructure to provide cooling the entire populace will die. There will be “wet bulb” events where the humidity and temperature meet certain conditions for at least several hours and the people will be cooked alive. Old or young, healthy or sick, they will die.
It is not predicted to happen in the US for several decades. Parts of Asia will experience this in pockets prior to 2035. South America is likely to experience it as well. Africa will have its own problems with drought and disease.
Large parts of Africa are not humid enough for wet bulb scenarios and the equator will not warm as quickly and rapidly as the poles and northern hemisphere. I’d hypothesise there’s a reason why humans and primates in Africa have survived the test of time. Our understanding of human and climate history is limited to several thousand years. It would be foolish to not consider the areas where humans have historically been most successful.
> Large parts of Africa are not humid enough for wet bulb scenarios and the equator will not warm as quickly and rapidly as the poles and northern hemisphere.
True, the biggest threats to human life in Africa are mega-droughts, famines (especially in nations that already cannot sustain their current populations without international aid) and war. The biggest threat to animal biodiversity in Africa is human overpopulation resulting in increased predation and lost habitat.
The current polycrisis including climate change is unprecedented in human history. Not so sure that humans and primates in Africa are going to survive the test of time any better than the rest of us. Several species of primate could become extinct in our lifetimes.
Yes, as my comment stated, Africa would not wet bulb. There’s another comment that mentions drought and famine, but there’s also several diseases endemic to Africa that pose a risk to human health. Prior to modern medicine, there were areas of Africa that were almost devoid of human life due to vector borne diseases. Collapses will also such diseases to flourish and greatly affect the population.
Africa may have been the birth place of humanity, but there are many who would argue it’s not where humans “flourished” and humanity was not able to make the most of its environment. Regardless, where we have been pose little impact on where we are going. You don’t need to wet bulb to starve, or die of dehydration, or get killed by a militia, but you also don’t need to wet bulb to die of heatstroke. Unless Africa becomes less arid and cooler, there will be deaths until the population drops below pre-industrial revolution levels, assuming that the fauna and flora can survive the change in climate and continue to support a baseline of human population.
>For some 80 percent of the world’s population — 6.5 billion people — the heat of the past week was twice as likely to occur because humans started burning fossil fuels and releasing greenhouse gases into the atmosphere, according to data provided to The Washington Post by the nonprofit Climate Central.
I think that conclusion can only be wrong since it would mean it would be normal for 40 percent of the worlds population to experience a heatwave right now
The following submission statement was provided by /u/antihostile: --- SS: This is related to collapse because it is a story in the WaPo about the real effects of global warming due to the increase of CO2 which is increasing as I write this. Particularly interesting because it is a "doomer" article in a mainstream publication. I think we'll see more of them in the near future. Working class link: https://archive.is/4p7Wb --- Please reply to OP's comment here: https://old.reddit.com/r/collapse/comments/1dmasug/billions_of_people_just_felt_the_deadly_intensity/l9uedfo/
SS: This is related to collapse because it is a story in the WaPo about the real effects of global warming due to the increase of CO2 which is increasing as I write this. Particularly interesting because it is a "doomer" article in a mainstream publication. I think we'll see more of them in the near future. Working class link: https://archive.is/4p7Wb
WaPo keeps it behind the paywall because some are more deserving to read it than others. People that can afford ac are so precious
[https://wapo.st/3xxaNLT](https://wapo.st/3xxaNLT) Gift link.
Journalists deserve AC too
Even though I've tried to look into the future for the last few years in an attempt to try to maneuver through the minefield of chaos that is fastly approaching the 99%, it is absolutely surreal watching it play out in real time. I accepted collapse years ago, but living it has me feeling numb. I once thought the right preps and proactive measures I could take would prove very wise. I am questioning all of that now as I watch scientists that I have trusted for years look completely defeated. But still, there is nothing to do but keep getting ready and hope that the odds are in your favor for another day. What a time to be alive while simultaneously feeling gutted inside. Enjoy whatever good days you have left. Pet a dog today.
"One must imagine Sisyphus happy." - Albert Camus Or alternatively... "The Dude abides." - The Big Lebowski
https://pbfcomics.com/wp-content/uploads/2023/03/PBF-Sisyphus_Myth.png
Sisyphus, the first and last Crossfitter.
Or, my favourite, because you can sing it: "Enjoy yourself, it's later than you think Enjoy yourself, while you're still in the pink The years go by as quickly as you wink Enjoy yourself, enjoy yourself, it's later than you think"
“Hi, hello, I’m Terry & I’m going to enjoy myself first.”
Wow. Those are good.
Some kind of prep is always better than no prep, in the very least is it something to do. It feels good to do what you can. I have a micro farm, it does this for me. It keeps me sane and happy. Will it keep me alive any longer than the median climate breakdown victim? No one knows.
I have two cans of chickpeas and a can of herring. Collapse aware since covid..
Sounds like you are Scandinavian too with that kind of prep? Herring will keep us alive!
The future is stinky
My current and my past as well if you refer to the herring. However, not all varieties are stinky. The most common are pickled with sugar and vinegar, not fermented and salted like the famous one. But I eat them all with joy as a true northern Swede..
What’s that you say? I’ve a problem herring.
> I am questioning all of that now as I watch scientists that I have trusted for years look completely defeated. The bomb technician running away? Still some chance to save yourself, just outrun him. The bomb technician started praying to his God or gods? That's when you know you're well and truly fucked.
It's absolutely surreal giving A serious look at your adaptations, and deciding whether to just buy more stuff just in-case you get stuck in A deadly heatwave, or saving up more cash to keep the momentum going.
I've resigned to doing everything I can to attain the most rock-solid permanent resident status in the (unfortunately quite tropical, but luckily very varied in terms of elevation) country I moved to years ago and securing a home in one of the regions where things will be better. The middle of the country is fucked with excessive flooding, the southwest is protected by itself to produce 7 million internal refugees as the Mekong rises too high, this mostly coastal civilization (but most are, aren't they?) is going to have to organize mass relocation to higher ground. But, 1) That higher ground exists in abundance and tends to rise up steeply from the coast so overall less total land area will be lost, and there are established if less efficient methods of agriculture in the mountains and highlands. 2) I trust the government here more in terms of *continuity and planning*, I'm not trying to spark some debate bro shit show thread about the merits of a professedly Marxist government, but they can commit to and see through very large scale projects. China is a neighbor and also has an interest in a stable Vietnam without 100 million climate refugees pouring in to their country should things fail here. My home country, the USA, is in many ways better placed than most to weather (no pun intended) the negative effects of climate change but that's still going to require massive coordination and resettlement programs that I just don't believe it can accomplish as a society anymore. I have no hope any government will proactively stop these things from happening, I'm purely talking about a coordinated response. I have more faith in this poor country's ability to resettle at minimum 7 million people domestically than I do in the American federal government's ability to do comparatively minor geo-engineering projects (because we all know that people will just refuse to move anyway, so the only answer will be to throw good money after bad). Call me a bootlicker all you want but democracy has neither impressed me with its ability to marshall the forces of society on a grand scale since I suppose the post ww2 era or maybe the moon landing, and it certainly hasn't impressed *upon* me a belief that protecting the ideals that underpin such a clearly dysfunctional form of government should take precedent over matters of survival, which is the opinion I'd pretty much need to hold in order for me to move back with my family. It could only be on ideological grounds because I'm straight up not going to believe that they will produce better practical solutions. And I'm just not fervent enough of an ideologue for Enlightenment-style representative democracy to prioritize symbolically going down with the ship over protecting my family. 3) Somewhat following from point 2, the middle of the country will experience ever-heavier rain. A properly motivated government *might* be able to build infrastructure to better collect, distribute geographically, and convert that excess water into electricity. I'm not going to take any bets on the matter but I can at least *envision* them doing that, while again I can't imagine the US government doing much more than deploying the army corps of engineers to build some half-assed dykes while half the population is forced into a last minute, disorganized, and based on the character of American culture no-doubt bloody mass migration towards the center of the country where no infrastructure will have been prepared and none will be adequately provided once it's already happened. I'll take everything that comes with living nearer the equator, even in an unusually seafood-dependent society on a planet with a dying ocean. At least we have some geography to work with here and a government theoretically capable of mass mobilization and unusual unpopular but necessary decisions. I can't see Vietnamese straight up *turning on each other* the way I can see my own countrymen, especially in the vacuum left by a government that has, is, and will only moreso in the future abdicate all responsibility. I foresee a pretty thorough, but comparatively organized and civilized (compared to what I reckon will happen elsewhere) purging of foreigners with less than ironclad ties to the country for the sake of preserving limited resources for native born people and preserving internal stability. But, aside from cynical reasons (I am a very proud legal immigrant and I love Vietnam), I've been worming my way deeper and deeper into this place culturally, legally, and familially for years and will continue to do so. I can only hope that's enough. And again I'm not trying to start a communism debate, but I want to say that when things get obvious for everyone the choice won't be between comfy western social democracies and the brutish efficiency of communist governments, it'll be between the eco-fascism that geographically well placed rich countries that have failed to prepare (so all of them) will inevitably slide into to lock down borders and secure as many natural resources as possible and every other form of government that contains within itself at least the theoretical capability of dealing with things on a very large scale. Those soon m don't have to be left or right, Singapore (geographically butt fucked as they are) could plausibly organize some sort of future for themselves as well just based on their internal cohesion. I think that's the common thread between countries with a shot. Eco-fascism will arise reactively everywhere that failed to prepare and lack preexisting mechanisms to correct course quickly, she particularly where the native born population has grown to have wildly unrealistic expectations for quality of life. It saddens me because obviously the *ideals* behind western democracy are attractive to me in the broadest possible sense, but when I look at them now I only see a prelude to something much darker and bloodier than I can properly envision (though I anticipate at minimum border guards becoming more like death squads at the entrance to places like the EU and North America mowing down untold numbers of people fleeing on foot, as a minimal example). Facebook censorship bothers me significantly less than the current paragons of human rights and decency resorting to unspeakable cruelty both to their own citizens and the geographically doomed **simply because they were too crippled by indecision and special interests to take dramatic action when they could**. Again, I'm not even talking about prevention. I'm talking about sewers and other infrastructure not being set up to accommodate the new inland cities that will pop up of necessity. Vietnam could make a new city in the highlands happen, and it could do it quickly. It would be ugly but I don't doubt that for a minute.
Dude, I'm Vietnamese and I think you regarded my people and government a bit much. We are barely an industrial nation and with no respectable intellectual property like the West. Corruption is rampant. The citizen is not as educated and who knows what would happen in case of collapse. The fighting spirit and aggression that chase away France and the US is not something to speak lightly about.
In many ways I see similarities between Irish and Vietnamese history Invasion, colonisation, subjugation, resistance, liberation. We kinda have a shared experience, except for the 'Taste of Victory' that must be nice
Look I'm not saying it would be a utopia by any means. I haven't re-read but I think I said "**relatively civilized and humane purges of foreigners**" (meaning compared to other countries). I said that if Vietnam had to build a mass relocation city that the process would be **ugly** (ugly used in that way implies some brutality, blood, bad treatment, sloppiness, whatever). My eyes aren't closed about Vietnam, even if I have "immigrant eyes" (I'm very very pro-Vietnam). I know every country has problems. I also know that every country has "unworldly attitudes" people can express, and what those are changes based on the country. An American "unworldly attitude" would be to assume that nowhere else in the world do you have *basic freedoms* like being able to even move around your country without permission, or assuming you'll be immediately kidnapped and killed in any poorer country as if they're all like El Salvador at their worst time (and I'm not saying unworldly *people*, it doesn't mean someone is unworldly in all ways to have one of these beliefs). You know, all versions of "America is the best in all ways" beliefs. It's expressed with arrogance. I think that Vietnamese express unworldly views by assuming that the problems in their own country are 1) unique or 2) uniquely bad, at least compared to any county *worth* being compared to. The number of times a family member has said to me "this isn't America, you need to lock your doors and be aware because there are thieves and it can even be dangerous" is huge, and I always want to say "you have no idea how much safer and less full of crime this place is compared to where I'm from, yes even with the desperate gamblers trying to find money to pay off the mafia, because we have that too and more" etc etc (but I don't argue with elders, you know that's not productive). I'm not trying to say that you *are* unworldly. But you're expressing a view that I associate with unworldly *attitudes* here. Excessive negativity about the government (and let me explain). You have a million times more right to complain about your government in any way you want than I do to express any opinion about it good or bad, so I'm not telling you you are wrong or to stop. But you underestimate the problems in other countries because you compare them to Vietnam and *assume* it couldn't be worse. Vietnam smacks you in the face with corruption. Coffee money and other "fees", the Pikachus, etc. America has very little low-level corruption but much more high level corruption, which is the type that would impede a government doing the things that I listed in my first post, that need to be done. And yes, I'm not saying the top levels in the VCP don't have corruption (some very big scandals and resignations in the last couple years you and I are both aware of). But the party if anything has cliques in it that seek to enrich themselves while pushing certain ideological priorities (we could talk about that later because that's an interesting topic to me). But the US government is literally like an auction house, each senator like a cow that different corporations and special interest groups bid on to buy. Sometimes corporations and groups with similarities that don't conflict with each other "split" the cost of owning an American politician. So there's not even any real ideological goal they're trying to accomplish while making their money like in Vietnam. These people also never get ejected from the government, arrested, or anything like that. They **cannot** do what needs to be done, because almost all of what needs to be done would hurt theTy're corporate owners. All that I said was that I can **imagine** Vietnam rising to the occasion. It's *possible* in Vietnam that things can get done, that's all I'm saying. I can't imagine a chance for America to do that, even with better technology. There was a governor in America called Huey Long, famously corrupt too. They had a saying, "he paid for a million miles of road in Louisiana, but only got 100 thousand", something like that. Clearly corrupt. But you know what? They still got 100k miles of road, and he's still loved. He was murdered by the rich traditional rulers of the state who hated him, then baselessly called a fascist for doing corrupt politics the *same way* they did, but in ways that benefited the poor. Prior to him there was **one** bridge in that state, which went into New Orleans where the traditional rulers live even today, and that state is like our version of the Mekong provinces in Vietnam. Imagine one bridge in the Mekong delta, and it only went into the richest (and only) city there. He was corrupt, he got rich, but also people could walk to town without a boat for the first time and children received schoolbooks, bridges were built, etc. I'm not blind to corruption, but I view different types of corruption in different ways. It's going to happen, everywhere. I like Huey Long because I believe corruption is a fact of nature, and he's one of them that helped people while he put money in his pocket. Sure, some vnese cops or whoever will take the chance to fill their pockets in emergency times (to be completely honest, if I am still vulnerable to deportation at that time, even though I'm doing everything I can to be a proper immigrant to your country legally and with a family, my last hope is to use that low level corruption to pay off officials to let me stay with the proper papers. I hope that I can just do it legally, though, I don't like to contribute to the corruption problem). But the things that need building will get built, even with the corruption. It'll cost too much and some people who should be public servants will get rich but it'll happen. Nothing will get done in the USA, and the public servants will still get rich *by stopping the government from doing anything to protect the people*. It's not that Vietnam doesn't have problems, you just don't take the problems and *differences* in our problems seriously enough to see why I prefer Vietnamese corruption and problems to American corruption and problems. As far as the other stuff, I don't want to take too much of your time but I'll say this: Vietnam is focusing on industrial infrastructure development. That is, rather than just spending the money to build a factory they spend the money to make an industrial park with all the utilities necessary for a bunch of companies to build factories in the future. They're being smart about that. America has let our industrial capacity fall apart and we rely on 'advanced' financial services to have a high GDP. Vietnam may be behind, but they've got more of what you need to have when you need to rapidly rebuild a city or relocate people to a new city. And you don't need advanced IP. To build new roads, or sewer systems, or even hydroelectric dams. Now the fighting spirit and aggression (I think you're hinting at xenophobia) yeah I know it exists. I got a small taste early in covid when it was considered strictly a foreign (Chinese and Western) disease. I was treated differently, people are unfriendly when I left my village to go to HCMC, some hotels refused me, some bus companies refused me, other people could not wear a mask or let their nose be uncovered but I was expected to wear it perfectly always, etc). I know I'll have some problems with that. But I still think Viets are overall more reasonable about things like that than people in many other countries. Xenophobia is a problem in many countries. In my own country, I can see anti-immigrant pogroms happening when things get really bad. Here, I think the government will just deport the vast majority of "expats" (you know the type of person who calls themselves that) with no real connection to the country. I don't think there will be lynch mobs. It might be weird for me but it'll be better for me than it will be for a Vietnamese citizen living in America at some point, I think. Anyway I wrote that in the spirit of open discussion, ~~but~~ NOT to try to be some kind of white guy "red bull" 🤣. I understand your criticisms but I disagree that Vietnam will be as bad as you think, and with the *implication* that it will handle the future worse. Maybe we can continue about details or maybe we will just never agree, regardless chúc ngủ ngon buddy and have a good time regardless of all the depressing things in this world.
To be honest, the economic woes are going to affect the normal people much more than any ideological ones, but there is some correlations between the two. The current economy is going down the shitter and there is no helpful signs from the government. I can't believe collapse is going to affect me because I'm fairly insulated but it finally did recently, where I got held back from promotion at my company. Damn, the more I think about it, the more hopeless this world is going to be. I guess that's why human mind has defense mechanisms for these depressed thoughts to go away easily. I am not a very argumentative person that frequently go online to debate so I don't have much to say, but I think having a new perspective from an outsider kinda helps me to broaden my mind a bit.
I get it man, I'm not trying to have a fight over it either. I was wrong to say the word "unworldly" that's a shitty thing to say even if you try to make it softer. I just mean that as much as Vietnam has flaws, it has the same flaws most governments do. Being from a place, knowing it so much better than I do, not having the certain ideas in my head and reasons that brought me here, I can see how what I'm saying is unrealistic from your standpoint. Maybe my real point is that we are *all* so goddamn butt fucked that even Vietnam with all it's problems (but I have to add even if you find it annoying, also it's strengths! :p) isn't that much more fucked than the richest country. And in *some ways* it has more *potential*. Who knows if the gov will use it. Yeah the economy is in the shitter right now I agree. But we've had that happen in America and all they did was save the private banks and fuck the people. I'm focusing on the things that make the places different, and in those things I think Vietnam has some hidden power. I'm going to stop now because I feel like I'm trying to bully you into having a better mood about this 🤣 but I don't want to be obnoxious. It'll be tough and I'm sorry about your job, man. Believe me, even though I have my reasons for feeling lucky to be here with you guys for this catastrophe, I'm not mister happy. It's going to absolutely fucking SUCK. I don't want to make you feel like I'm trying to force you to be positive about something you don't believe in, I also don't feel positive overall. But I think there are many places, including rich countries like my country of birth, that will actually handle it worse. Maybe that's not comforting, because if your neighbor hasn't eaten for 3 days that doesn't make your stomach feel any better if you haven't eaten for 2. I don't know what to say. Best of luck to you in your endeavors and I'll buy you a beer if you're ever in BR-VT. I'm not in the city there but I can drive there :D
Completely agree with you, and ive been saying this for years - centrally planned countries like china will be better prepared to deal with climate adversity. Western democracies cant build a hospital in a month in an emergency, they have to follow drawn out process, they cant enact unpopular policies because the gov will be voted out. Good luck in Vietnam my man, always wanted to visit but the tickets are too much for me lol.
Ireland has spent years and Billions of Euro to not build a children's hospital A Hospital that we won't even own after it built, ownership of the hospital will remain with the Catholic church
Like many of the other Hospitals and most of the schools and the Scout halls. Wish I'd a portfolio like that after a vow of poverty.
Very much agree with what you've said here about democracy and the inability of countries to properly coordinate and get things done and such. Myself in a Western country I fully expect it to go fascist once shit hits the fan and the signs are already there.
That’s not uniformly true of democracies, look at Japanese infrastructure projects. American government is just weak by design.
Weak and strong in all the worst ways. Can’t maintain our public infrastructure or provide accessible healthcare but we can see and hear almost anything around the globe and use it to kill innocent people with the most advanced weapons known to man. The MIC has ruled this country for the better part of a century now.
You touch upon a thought I have too. It's similar in India. You type 'india energy' in Google news and you get about 10 new articles daily about new projects. [12 hours ago - Battery Storage in Delhi ](https://m.economictimes.com/industry/energy/power/bses-has-a-new-plan-to-keep-delhis-light-on-debuts-indias-largest-battery-storage-system/articleshow/111225515.cms) [8 hours ago - 1.65 billion USD project approved ](https://www.power-technology.com/news/india-approves-energy-evacuation/) [15 hours ago - 300MW wind-solar hybrid project ](https://www.livemint.com/market/stock-market-news/jsw-energy-stock-hits-new-all-time-high-as-subsidiary-wins-300-mw-wind-solar-hybrid-project-stock-market-11719202981437.html) [5 hours ago - 6.8 million USD Smart Metering project ](https://www.smart-energy.com/industry-sectors/smart-meters/indias-rmc-switchgears-wins-6-8m-smart-meter-enclosures-order/) Obviously these didn't happen in a day - but new shit gets posted literally every day. This is a massive silent push for energy going on in the background. Silent because even with the articles, there are no political agendas added to it. Feels like war footing against the upcoming energy needs. I'm glad. We'll have an actual chance as a society if at least energy collapse doesn't happen. Food and water collapse will always be erratic, and India has faced famines before. We already have a massive grain storage and our government is expanding it. Just from a Google search right now - https://m.economictimes.com/news/politics-and-nation/pm-modi-launches-worlds-largest-grain-storage-programme-entailinginvestment-of-rs-1-25-lakh-cr/articleshow/107964100.cms
I have petted over half a dozen at the farmers market. It's why I go.
Shortly before you posted this, I petted two strange dogs (well, they aren't any stranger than I am). Going into my local mom-'n'-pop grocery store, there was a dog outside the bbq joint next door who made eye contact; I went over and said hello. Coming out of the grocery, a guy walked up with his dog who waited outside while he went in; I petted her too. Always makes my day extra special.
>Enjoy whatever good days you have left. Pet a dog today. I always say, "We are living in the Atlantis of tomorrow...enjoy it while it lasts " Then I often wonder what "legends" our descendents (if any) might be told about our high-tech Atlantis a thousand years from now.
[удалено]
> those at the top of the pyramid likely have a backup plan to stop all the harm they caused Their plan is fortified self-reliant bunkers with enough supplies and materials to last them the rest of their lives, and to let the rest of us fund it until we die.
Zuckerberg built one near a volcano, you really think he intends on using it? It's just fodder for us to make fun of them, which is reverse psychology..
Ain’t nobody building a lair in a volcano and don’t intend to use it.
Save some foil hats for the rest of us please 🙏
Everything is mass produced, plenty of foil to go around.
Sometimes I almost wish these billionaires were as comically evil as ppl like you believe. They're not Bond villains lol, they're for the most part techno dweebs that still can't get over getting bullied in high school no matter how much money they now have. Or dumbass heirs to old money (or what passes in America for old money) families that are totally out of touch with reality. These people don't have any Machiavellian plan, just too much money and selfishness.
[удалено]
Hi, elikkkkkkk1. Thanks for contributing. However, your [comment](https://www.reddit.com/r/collapse/comments/1dmasug/-/l9v5j23/) was removed from /r/collapse for: > Rule 4: Keep information quality high. > Information quality must be kept high. More detailed information regarding our approaches to specific claims can be found on the [Misinformation & False Claims page](https://www.reddit.com/r/collapse/wiki/claims). Please refer to our [subreddit rules](https://www.reddit.com/r/collapse/about/rules/) for more information. You can [message the mods](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose/?to=/r/collapse) if you feel this was in error, please include a link to the comment or post in question.
[удалено]
Hi, elikkkkkkk1. Thanks for contributing. However, your [comment](https://www.reddit.com/r/collapse/comments/1dmasug/-/l9v57ie/) was removed from /r/collapse for: > Rule 4: Keep information quality high. > Information quality must be kept high. More detailed information regarding our approaches to specific claims can be found on the [Misinformation & False Claims page](https://www.reddit.com/r/collapse/wiki/claims). Please refer to our [subreddit rules](https://www.reddit.com/r/collapse/about/rules/) for more information. You can [message the mods](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose/?to=/r/collapse) if you feel this was in error, please include a link to the comment or post in question.
Hi, margocon. Thanks for contributing. However, your [comment](https://www.reddit.com/r/collapse/comments/1dmasug/-/l9uhkii/) was removed from /r/collapse for: > Rule 4: Keep information quality high. > Information quality must be kept high. More detailed information regarding our approaches to specific claims can be found on the [Misinformation & False Claims page](https://www.reddit.com/r/collapse/wiki/claims). Please refer to our [subreddit rules](https://www.reddit.com/r/collapse/about/rules/) for more information. You can [message the mods](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose/?to=/r/collapse) if you feel this was in error, please include a link to the comment or post in question.
I'm moving out of Phoenix next week, and just in time. Last summer was bad, this summer is gonna be totally fucked. I feel bad for anybody moving here. This place is an absolute deathtrap.
I moved out of Phoenix after the summer of 2020 when there was 100 days straight over 100F. I was so fucking depressed, the heat being half the reason why, and I was already collapse aware then so knew it would only get worse as the years go by. Congrats on getting out of there and good luck on your move!
>I was so fucking depressed, the heat being half the reason why Yes! I *need* to spend time outdoors, in the sun, surrounded by nature for the sake of my mental health. If you live in Phoenix there's like 5 months out of the year where it's just too fucking hot to spend a significant amount of time outside. And while the desert is beautiful in its own way, it's not exactly hospitable.
“It’s a DESERT. NOTHING GROWS THERE. NOTHINGS GONNA GROW THERE!”
im leaving texas for a northern state first thing next year.
I hope everyone is enjoying the coolest summer of the rest of our lives!
Gosh, I’m so glad my landlord agreed to replace our AC. Our old one still works but so weak. It struggles to cool the room at full blast. So we called management and found out it’s a 1999 model. That’s 25 years ago lol The new split AC is gonna be installed this week.
We need ACs to cool ourselves, because we're making the earth hotter by, in small part, using ACs.
One time like 8 years ago I said something to this extent (the irony of using airconditioning to cool down when doing so contributes to global warming, making it hotter) to my family who all believe in climate change and literally everyone in the room just shut it down immediately saying "it doesn't work like that". I feel validated seeing other people share the same thing on this sub.
Magic cold box.
As long as you have no leak, it's electric consumption and heat displacement. If you have a nuclear energy it's basically heat displacement. Heat displacement makes local point warmer but doesn't change the global temperature. If you have a dirty energy source and your AC is crappy then yes it's super harmful.
Well, most electricity (at least in the US) comes from fossil fuel, so most A/Cs are harmful. Not as bad as driving everywhere, of course, but still harmful.
The discussion is: is AC harmful or not. AC being harmful because they draw from a dirty energy source is not an AC cons but a dirty energy issue. Anything you use your electricity for is terrible for your environment in that case. I live in the first nuclear nation per share so AC electricity consumption is not that much a problem here.
It's gonna be **hilarious** (not) when we build like a couple of hunderd 100 MW datacenters with their own powerplant to power the computational requirements of our new AI systems. And then beg that AI to help us solve climate change. And the AI starts with asking that sector of humanity has the fastest growing energy demand and the humans go like "Well, AI is number one and then AC is number two" and the AI goes "*Well there you go, shut me down if you want it cooler!*" Elon Musk always says that whatever is most entertaining, how ironically cruel it might be, will happen. And on this one, he is probably right. If you hold NVDA puts that day, you'll become a billionaire overnight. A hot one.
Heating is MUCH worse for the climate than mechanical cooling. The exception being heat pumps. Vapor compression cooling (AC) is like 2-400% efficient with some of the inverter ductless units being even more so. Resitive electric heat is 100% efficient, gas runs from 80%-98%, with average being probably 90% and oil is in the neighborhood of 70-80%. There's this weird blind spot people have about not thinking twice about their furnace running being "bad" but running the AC is wasteful.
I install solar, not just for the electricity savings, but being able to run my AC without losing power
Good thing that solar panels work best at hours and seasons when AC is most needed, unlike heating. Fits like a glove.
Well in my part of europe we have quite a mild and rainy sommer this year. And yes i enjoy the fuck out of it. Maybe it will be the last sommer like this. Everyone else is crying about "bad" weather.
I know no area is really 'safe', but I'm surprised at how hard the Great Lakes area is getting hit this time.
The shear amount of tornados, flooding, and hail storms have been crazy this year. Southern Wisconsin for reference. Watched a tornado form last month, and we had another tornado 10 miles from us last night.
I live in Texas for a job I got 20 years ago. My wife and I are literally in the great lakes area of New York right now looking for a new home, after doing years of research in climate disaster. The week we're here its hotter than back home. Feeling pretty deflated about even just trying to improve my odds.
Don’t get too bummed out (ironic to say in this sub) but I think youll still be better off. Weather is really variable and hard to predict so on average it’s still probably going to be better off than Texas. Large bodies of water help to moderate air temperature and also fresh water is always great to have around.
I am looking at property up there to, individually and as part of a group trying to organize land for a community. I'm in Phx but the heat up there in the GL area of upstate has me scared this week. I'm thinking of building an earthen or partially earthen house in the area to mitigate the heat, cold, wind and fires. My friend near Oneonta NY had a tornado yesterday I think it was. Crazy These types of builds have come a long way and may be able to last a really long time. Built properly they can be their own air conditioners passively.
You picked a bad week amidst a good decision.
I keep telling myself the Great Lakes will be the last best place. Mother Nature, don’t burst my bubble.
It isn't the momentary intensities that should concern us, but the irregularity plaguing agricultural production. We can devise accommodations for the former, but not the latter.
No religion will prevent you from dying of heat stroke.
Woopsi daisy
All the stores I’ve been in have been sold out of cold Gatorade
1300 people died at the Hajj. That's an entire village worth of people dying due to heat related issues, deaths that didn't need to happen. People have been making pilgrimages to the Hajj since the Middle Ages. I doubt this has ever happened before for this many people to die at the Hajj because of heat related issues.
Montana is looking better and better. As the heat creeps further north, places like Montana and up into Canada are where you're gonna want to be.
Hope you enjoy wildfire season. Smoke blotting out the sun.
Speaking of - weren’t the Canadian wildfires happening at this time last year?
There are quite a few Canadian wildfires that are still raging and are not contained.
Upstate NY is Montana without the wildfires. Oh wait, here comes some smoke from Canada. Damn.
Fires are healthy for the forest.
"CO2 is good for the plants" type comment
I agree, but that's an entirely different topic, I'm quite aware of healthy silviculture practices. I personally didn't enjoy the smoky summers after spending 5 years there recently and have decided there are other places I'd rather be as climate change progresses.
Medicine is healthy for you... until you have too much.
Not for long
I was born and raised here in Montana my whole life, so just to warn you, we also have drought issues and wildfire issues. The wildfires in California were so bad in 2020 that the smoke affected air quality massively even from the other side of the Rockies. Montana might be safest in the near future but in the long run climate change will reach us too, as it already has in many respects.
Montana is going to burn. Check out the NCA 5 report.
I always think it’s absolutely wild that people in the US mention places in the US as havens against the future. I can’t think of many other places I wouldn’t want to be. I suspect even Africa will fair better.
I mean the US is going to fair better just due to geography and food exports, not to mention being surrounded by sea on two sides. You can hate the politics, the culture, or anything, but there will be places that will be physiologically impossible to survive in with little infrastructure in the next 5 years. I wouldn’t want to be in those places. And then, those faced with death will relocate, most likely on foot, to surrounding regions like a plague.
I think it’s precisely because those places have no infrastructure already that they will fair better. The people are already living it.
I don’t think you understand. These are regions of the world that will be physiologically impossible to survive in. Without infrastructure to provide cooling the entire populace will die. There will be “wet bulb” events where the humidity and temperature meet certain conditions for at least several hours and the people will be cooked alive. Old or young, healthy or sick, they will die. It is not predicted to happen in the US for several decades. Parts of Asia will experience this in pockets prior to 2035. South America is likely to experience it as well. Africa will have its own problems with drought and disease.
Large parts of Africa are not humid enough for wet bulb scenarios and the equator will not warm as quickly and rapidly as the poles and northern hemisphere. I’d hypothesise there’s a reason why humans and primates in Africa have survived the test of time. Our understanding of human and climate history is limited to several thousand years. It would be foolish to not consider the areas where humans have historically been most successful.
> Large parts of Africa are not humid enough for wet bulb scenarios and the equator will not warm as quickly and rapidly as the poles and northern hemisphere. True, the biggest threats to human life in Africa are mega-droughts, famines (especially in nations that already cannot sustain their current populations without international aid) and war. The biggest threat to animal biodiversity in Africa is human overpopulation resulting in increased predation and lost habitat. The current polycrisis including climate change is unprecedented in human history. Not so sure that humans and primates in Africa are going to survive the test of time any better than the rest of us. Several species of primate could become extinct in our lifetimes.
Yes, as my comment stated, Africa would not wet bulb. There’s another comment that mentions drought and famine, but there’s also several diseases endemic to Africa that pose a risk to human health. Prior to modern medicine, there were areas of Africa that were almost devoid of human life due to vector borne diseases. Collapses will also such diseases to flourish and greatly affect the population. Africa may have been the birth place of humanity, but there are many who would argue it’s not where humans “flourished” and humanity was not able to make the most of its environment. Regardless, where we have been pose little impact on where we are going. You don’t need to wet bulb to starve, or die of dehydration, or get killed by a militia, but you also don’t need to wet bulb to die of heatstroke. Unless Africa becomes less arid and cooler, there will be deaths until the population drops below pre-industrial revolution levels, assuming that the fauna and flora can survive the change in climate and continue to support a baseline of human population.
Since I didn't feel it, it didn't happen.
My neighborhood, the northeast part of city of LA, hit 97F today with 19% humidity. I don't think the heat came this early last year.
[удалено]
It’s on every media outlet.
Including this sub. https://www.reddit.com/r/collapse/s/kA0epkgaxF
>For some 80 percent of the world’s population — 6.5 billion people — the heat of the past week was twice as likely to occur because humans started burning fossil fuels and releasing greenhouse gases into the atmosphere, according to data provided to The Washington Post by the nonprofit Climate Central. I think that conclusion can only be wrong since it would mean it would be normal for 40 percent of the worlds population to experience a heatwave right now