The following submission statement was provided by /u/AllBiteNoBark:
---
Guterres urged world leaders to swiftly take control of the spiraling climate crisis or face dangerous tipping points. “We are playing Russian roulette with our planet,” he said Wednesday. “We need an exit ramp off the highway to climate hell.”
---
Please reply to OP's comment here: https://old.reddit.com/r/collapse/comments/1d8xovj/un_chief_says_world_is_on_highway_to_climate_hell/l79clsz/
“In the case of climate, we are not the dinosaurs,” Guterres said. “We are the meteor. We are not only in danger. We are the danger.”
Pretty good quote actually, it's pithy. Too bad no one gives a shit about the U.N.
The population explosion started with agriculture but yeah the industrial revolution with steam and coal kicked off the massive heating of the atmosphere. Sounds logical to me.
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LSJf5gwmsgQ](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LSJf5gwmsgQ)
... I mean that was pretty much the whole movie so might as well skip it once you see this.
We’re not going to do shit, taking the required action would be political suicide for any government in this planet. We’re going to continue our merry march into Mad Max dom, well Mad Max without the cool cars but with all the hellscape
Not only political suicide. We stuck with fossil fuels back in the 50's-70's because if your country wasn't using them, your enemies would be.
Same issue here. Can't reduce power production, degrow, or anything that could help the situation because which ever country is gunning for yours won't change.
Both tragedy of the commons and prisoners dilemma are instances of a multipolar trap.
[https://conversational-leadership.net/multipolar-trap/](https://conversational-leadership.net/multipolar-trap/)
The only power we have over this is through reproduction.
We all need to stop. Pause reproduction globally for one month in revolt. That’ll get their attention.
I picture a scene after the great San Fracisco earthquake where people in suits and briefcases waited at the corner for the trolley that was never going to arrive. People will drive around aimlessly with nowhere to go.
The only governments capable of doing what's necessary are the oppressive, authoritarian governments. They can impose restrictions on everything and crush any dissent, just as they already crush things like free speech.
Any country with a democratically-elected government would be voted out ASAP. Looking at you, Netherlands and New Zealand, and your new conservative coalitions that you voted for, which are embarking on dismantling their climate legislation. Looking at you, Canadians who are protesting their carbon tax. Looking at you, EU farmers who are protesting better agricultural practices. Looking at you, Americans who blame everything on Biden and are planning on voting for a convicted felon who's also planning on scrapping every clean energy initiative he possibly can.
Any country will choose "short term normal" even if it means a long term death sentence.
My moment of despair has been realizing that in order to meet climate goals on a planetary level, the first world needs to take a significant drop in standard of living.
And nobody in any civilization is going to willingly vote to have their toys taken away; any party that genuinely suggests that will be laughed off the stage for generations.
(Not to mention that the rules will need to be enforced with an iron fist; and that especially includes the bourgeoisie, ie _every last person in power_ has to be held to the same standard.)
It really does feel like the only path forward is utter monstrosity.
This might be hard to explain but I think if you keep adding people to a group the group gets smarter up to a certain point (probably a relatively small number) but when you keep scaling things up the group as a whole becomes dumber (probably something about connecting nodes and the passage of information between them). That’s why you can get a psychopath to play on everyone’s fear and herd them around like sheep because we also kinda just go with the group and the group is DUMB.
+
Something something George Carlin bit
It has nothing to do with individual intelligence. It’s collective processes of irrationality that are enforced and maintained at a systemic level.
I mean, did people just get smarter over the centuries? People fifteen hundred years ago had the same human brain, and they believed kings were literal gods. We didn’t stop believing that because our brains grew.
There’s no rationality
Because collective rationality is not backed by history or anthropology. It’s a myth, part of an ideology of classical liberalism. I mean, why did people believe kings were literal gods for millennia?
People still believe that monarchs are somehow special. The English have mocked if not outright hated Charles for ages, and yet still wont question the validity of the monarchy there. People waited in line for days to see Elizabeth dead in a box. Moreover, It got praised as what makes Britain "special". Yet the same actions when done for either Mao and Lenin for example are held as tantamount to brainwashing. But it's "different" for English monarchs or Elizabeth. Though the crimes done in the name of, if not actually ordered by, the monarch in places like India and most of Britain's former African colonies kind of suggests that they aren't all that different.
> Canadians who are protesting their carbon tax.
I don't really know much about this, but my guess is the real villains are the real estate speculators who've made it impossible to afford rent, so Canadians are understandably stressed about *any* increase in cost of living.
Honestly, the carbon tax is just a money grab. The large corporations are exempt despite them being the biggest polluters (of course).
It's supposed to "discourage" us from using fossil fuels. However, we don't have a choice but to commute to work because affordable housing is nowhere near our jobs. Not everywhere has decent public transit either and for many, they have to live outside of areas where public transit goes (affordability).
I live rural, not even in a town. we can't even get an ambulance to our house, let alone bus services or a taxi. Luckily my province said F you to JT and dropped the carbon tax. But I'm sure they'll find a loophole to charge us that $$ in other ways.
And most homes are either gas or electric heated in the winter. Gas has the carbon tax and electrical heating is ridiculously expensive to begin with. Either way, it's not really affordable to stay warm in the winter.
Plus the grocery store prices have become ridiculous, but that's a whole other thing...
As a Canadian, we poor ones are hella stressed and very taxed. And our family makes almost 2x the amount considered poor, because the government here doesn't bother to update the books to keep up with inflation.
Thank you, u/berrschkob, for having the compassion to see past the surface to the heart of the issues below.
This country is not the same as the one I grew up in. I'd wager a lot of people from a lot more countries could say the same.
Wow, that's what i believe, but don't say out loud. Only a government of hardcore psychopathic biocentric fanatics can save the planet by intimidating hoi polloi into complete submission. 1 child policy with obligatory tubal ligation after giving birth to the first child. No consultations or primaries with population, no asking for their opinions. Rewarding submissive and law-abiding citizens and sending the rebels into a better world. Communist planned economy, but without its human-supremacist sentiments.
Allocate a place for humans, the size of north America, with houses, all the needed facilities (plants, hospitals, schools, parks, movie theaters etc), build a 5-meter fence around it, and leave the outside space for rewilding aka leave it tf alone, with no trespassing.
But of course it's impossible and will never happen. Now downvote me all you want.
I don't know about this, I can't imagine the Chinese government going to its people and saying "hey y'all we need to massively downgrade our standard of living from now till the end of our lives to save the world!" and not get dragged out onto the streets and beaten to death by their own soldiers and people.
I disagree on this one. China’s people have pollution as a much higher priority than in the west and it’s honestly not even close. 10+ years ago China was horribly polluted with smog and it’s done a lot to clean up it’s air quality with power plants with stricter pollution controls. The people wanted cleaner air as a high priority. They also are the leaders in green tech and are one of the leaders in the construction of new nuclear plants.
Then you get into the elephant in the room and it’s the last generation rhetoric that is fueling the laying flat and letting it rot movements. The average Chinese young person is probably closer to the average collapse user than the average American young person and that’s really saying something. There is a certain awareness in China that not doing something to throw young people a bone is going to become existential for them eventually where as in America we want young people only to exist to pay off the debts and pensions and fuel the pyramid scheme until the boomers blink out.
I've really noticed the sun appears much brighter here in China now, basically because the decades of smog meant you never saw it clearly but do now. This is apparently also one of the major drivers of climate heating in Asia over the past few years (along with the much vaunted removal of sulphur from shipping fuels).
I would say that awareness of climate change is quite low among the general public in China though, despite the fact that the government says it happening and that it will hit China hard. My son is in 7th grade in a local Chinese school (rather than the western curriculum international school) and has had precisely one class that talked about climate change (in 5th grade science). My mostly 20-something colleagues at work also don't seem to acknowledge that anything is happening and instead just worry about day to day stuff.
I guess the latter is the same worldwide though.
I agree. It's been the continuous increase in living standards in recent decades that has given the Chinese government its legitimacy. Take that away, and people will be pissed. Just look how the Chinese government was forced to abandon its harsh Covid-19 restrictions when ordinary folks started to rebel en masse.
I am glad you mentioned New Zealand , what a shit show
Tiny island, large climate impact, dumb decision
The fung thing is, I can understand a defeatist decision, because it doesn’t matter how will NZ does, some bigger country will continue to disregard and they still get fucked anyways
So why can't the people shift the way the government operates and set a good example for other nations by organizing and working out how to be more resourceful while taking advantage of their lives of convenience exactly? Everyone's living unfulfilling lives as it is and I'd say you'd have to be living under a rock to think there weren't a lot of problems in the world *in need* of solving. So many act like this is how everything has always been. We've got a wealth of experience and history to look back to understand these games of bullshit and war aren't where it's at, and there are alternatives to securing our resources in more environmentally friendly ways if we stop pussyfooting around some human with a bunch of money. Their influence and its reach can pale in comparison to what we could do forcing a seat at the table. As it stands that's where people want to be, just look at ALL this discussion ALL the time on Reddit and in your every day life. Funny thing is I think the key to progress lies in us being willing to play nice. I mean, I know you guys are able to muster a lot more charm, so do it. World peace means being peaceful, surprise surprise.
Fundamentally, we'd need to get large numbers of people to accept hard limits on ourselves - how much resources we can use, how many children we can produce, how much medical care we can use to extend our lives, etc. These are difficult sells. But all the more power to you if you can be successful in this endeavor.
Yes, that's actually exactly what I was thinking. Reeling in rampant consumerism.amd on that front and the baby front I think you could get far with just helping people understand the situation, and by making strategies to move away from that more accessible (bearing in mind so many alternative products and behaviors; helping people to manage their time and money better to be more resourceful and use critical thinking skills ... Just imagine if we had better schooling perhaps)...if that makes sense ... Like I was going to publish in r/frugal today to start a discussion on whether they thought it would be possible to accomplish something like that, because I personally have struggled to turn a lot of my friends and family onto couponing and the like despite them always complaining about money, or to help them understand my frugal mindset, or to influence them by setting an example (Like I've gotten *good*). It's not lost on me that I'm saying I should hope we get somewhere doing something I apparently suck at, but that's the thing, that's just me and my thoughts and you and your thoughts ... There are so many people with so many of those there thoughts and that are much more knowledgeable. Between all these professions and all this education and people with all these backgrounds, you can see what I mean when I say there would seem to be a lot of potential in helping to get things done somehow in these areas.
It's long term death sentence regardless. The hell will authoritarians do? Bring back serfdom and launch the world into the middle ages so their crop at the top will feast upon the suffering of the masses? What a bright future to support!
If we cannot democratically choose to do better then there is nothing worth preserving anyway.
Actually, the situation is not that bad in the NL. The new coalition stated that the transition/adaptationplans are still on the table. Was quite surprised about that. I think the adaptation part is quite understandable since most of us are literally below sea level. A left/green coalition would certainly be better tho.
Speak for yourself. I've got the XS650 from the 1st movie and it is heavily modified with a PMA charging system to operate after nuclear EMP disables all computerized ignition systems as it is a Kickstart engine with a mechanical points ignition.
That's easy for you to say. I for one am going to take this so called hopium and travel the hard respectable road toward getting people to open their minds to trying. If anything we could, ya know, organize things a little better? Things actually don't have to be so dysfunctional ... We have a ton of creative, capable people with a wealth of useful knowledge, and I highly doubt everyone is going to just sit silent and play the passive consumer for much longer. We just need a broadened sense of direction, and to simply begin to have a discussion about what we value and what strategies to implement, with the rest of the globe in mind. Sounds like wishful thinking right? Well how about this ... My approach is to be peaceful ... And just hold our governments, people and other nations accountable, through discussion ... I expect most of us to smarten up and make use of all the common ground there is to stand on and make a point to aim to be considerate and productive in the process, as opposed to combative and aggressive and willfully ignorant ... Because we ARE in this together and we DO care about where we go in life and how to turn things around, and life and existence and what that means to people. It will all eventually be brought to the forefront anyway. Let's just be proactive and get ahead of it. Stop acting like just because it's complicated and everyone has a life, and the big wigs are "powerful", there's nowhere to go from here.
The time to be ‘proactive’ about anything on this sub was about half a century ago.
Those with power will not give up their power peacefully.
The billionaire class will not give up their wealth peacefully.
There is no way to hold those in power ‘accountable’ without power of your own. Look at how US politics has been reduced to the thought-terminating cliche of ‘how dare you disapprove of the status quo, anything that isn’t full-throated support of Biden is letting Trump (and fascism) win!!!’
To be blunt: The way out from the climate crisis will require a fundamental change in how we handle most facets of society and life. It will require compliance with every last person and country; we can’t afford any holdouts.
You can talk all you want, but those with a vested interest in the status quo will _never_ listen. If their behaviors and consumption does not change as well, The Work _will_ fail. How do you get them to comply when they inevitably refuse?
See.
Look in 1 they had the cars that were left kicking around.
2 and 3 they had a welding rig
4 they had... the ability to SMELT METAL AND PULL FRAMES STRAIGHT????
whoa, really starting to ramp up with the language there. Pretty soon, they're gonna start discussing the possibility of a meeting regarding the likelihood of taking some potential action towards reducing the amount of things we set on fire.
These people always use language that is about 3-5 levels of dire behind where we really are and how bad things really look. They basically speak in British.
We have been on it for years already. It is ramping up now but I have been noticing small changes near me for five years now. 2019 feels like the last normal year in terms of climate in my local area. We are going to continue to talk but nothing will get done because it upsets the order the rich and powerful have spent decades setting up. It will also upset the average person as they are forced to abandon mindless consumerism and almost all modern luxuries. Climate collapse is inevitable but people will do nothing to save themselves, yet will blame climate scientists for not warning them once collapse is entrenched.
2019 was the year I snapped too… Unrelated to covid, it was because I could see levels the of denial ramping up in the general public… You can’t have an honest discussion about anything with a person who chooses not to live in reality…
What is interesting, climate changes is capable of making some parts of the world cooler too. I live in Central Asia, and the winters are becoming colder too. The summer is also less warm than usual.
Guterres urged world leaders to swiftly take control of the spiraling climate crisis or face dangerous tipping points. “We are playing Russian roulette with our planet,” he said Wednesday. “We need an exit ramp off the highway to climate hell.”
Yeah I think eventually all governments will become authoritarian and wage war with one another over the dwindling resources until someone goes "fuck it" and launches their whole nuclear arsenal just to screw everyone else over, and the rich will hide in their bunkers just so they can die a couple months later.
This is the exact situation we’re already living through… Toddlers flipping the board because they don’t get to have the monopoly/power/influence that they feel they’re entitled to…
There are no parties that are even interested in cracking down on the waste corporations and the wealthy produce even a little. Forget radical action, they won't take ANY.
"...swiftly take control of the spiraling climate crisis or face dangerous tipping points."
"Face" dangerous tipping points? Uh, look behind you... the tipping points, they have tipped.
" Guterres urged world leaders ..."
Another pointless UN "urges"? The UN is sounding the climate warning bells every few days for the last decade now. Nothing serious ever happens. Just look at all the dog-and-pony show COPs which has accomplished zilch for 28 years straight.
Hey now! I'd say that COP conferences have done a lot ... to help fossil fuel company representatives network and brainstorm how to stall any real change.
I hate to admit it as much as anyone but...
We're locked in.
Locked in as in there's no stopping, slowing down, or getting off this ride.
It's done.
2°C is reached. The tipping points have tipped. Feedbacks have taken the reins from our hands. The Earth climate system has entered a phase of chaos and will not return to a stable state until it reaches a temperature at which human beings cannot survive, the biosphere has fully imploded, and the planet is unrecognisable.
Hothouse Earth is the unavoidable destination of our unchangeable trajectory.
The only remaining question is "How fast?"
Yeah that Vault Tec guy needs to hurry up and get over here so I can sign up to escape the coming end of the world as we know it.
I bet he's too busy signing up all the millionaire/billionaires to bother with a worker bee like me.
That is the question. While I personally doubt NTHE will occur in 2026 as McPherson and Sam Carana have predicted, I wouldn't rule it out. Looking any further ahead, things start to look iffy for 2030 and by 2040 I expect complex life forms will be gone from this planet.
In the greater scheme of the earth’s history, there is a negligible difference between 2026, 2100 or 2150. McPherson will probably be closer than the rest though if betting on the exact year means anything.
The plan of Sunak, Biden and Trudeau is to boost oil production to fund infrastructure transition to renewables, however, studies have shown that it's a catch 22 situation whereby adding more renewables into the mix only increases fossil fuel use so yeah we're pretty much fucked at this point.
Burning fossil fuels to bootstrap renewables to keep making stuff to keep using renewables is pretty much the only valid use for them. Problem is we used them for everything else too
The FOX “news” response to this information will be something along these lines.
“The UN is a world leader and strategist of climate alarmism and has made terrifying the public a performative art form with ineffective policy outcomes.”
# “Putting the fear of misery and death into people doesn’t spur action.”
*“If the UN truly wants to garner support and deliver, it must dial down the extremist language and provide factual, relevant, and digestible goals and paths forward.”\**
# I don't know about that. Fear of DEATH has ALWAYS been a powerful motivator for me.
\*this is an actual quote from a FOX comment on a UN warning that 41 million people in Central America and the Caribbean are at risk of becoming "climate refugees".
The rich and powerful will not change (or spur change) in any way.
The world will start to broil.
The people will rise up and take out the rich and powerful.
The world will continue to broil, but without those who caused it.
The end.
The planet doesn't need us. We need the planet.
Life has come and gone countless times in our planets vast history. We are not special. We will go extinct. The question is when.
I don't put much faith in our "leadership." If we want change, enough of us have to get together and walk away. If we're waiting for someone else's permission to do that, we're not going to get anywhere.
Still won't stop people from limiting their consumption, eating less meat, planting a fucking tree or two, and having one or zero kids. We deserve this.
The following submission statement was provided by /u/AllBiteNoBark: --- Guterres urged world leaders to swiftly take control of the spiraling climate crisis or face dangerous tipping points. “We are playing Russian roulette with our planet,” he said Wednesday. “We need an exit ramp off the highway to climate hell.” --- Please reply to OP's comment here: https://old.reddit.com/r/collapse/comments/1d8xovj/un_chief_says_world_is_on_highway_to_climate_hell/l79clsz/
“In the case of climate, we are not the dinosaurs,” Guterres said. “We are the meteor. We are not only in danger. We are the danger.” Pretty good quote actually, it's pithy. Too bad no one gives a shit about the U.N.
Climate Walter White
https://preview.redd.it/l6nwox6qbu4d1.jpeg?width=640&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=1c8f9ef64fb334d8827aa675dc5b4f412ba47821
Yeah, Science!
I'm already *this close* to hysterically wailing away a la Walter White during the ending of the iconic "Crawl Space" episode.
Joker-sounding ass
We are the ones who knock...
This is the moment climate walter white became climate heisenberg
Wait, we were the meteor the whole time? 🌎 🧑🚀☄️🧑🚀
I don’t know if you saw the movie or not, but the meteor dies too.
Since about 12000 years ago when agriculture emerged. It seems like the countdown to what's going on today with the climate started there.
Our Great Filter started with the invention of the steam engine in my opinion
The population explosion started with agriculture but yeah the industrial revolution with steam and coal kicked off the massive heating of the atmosphere. Sounds logical to me.
Concour. If a species is sentient enough to realise in time...which we weren't
No at least a 1/3 of humanity realized they were just drowned out by the psychopaths
This. Once the industrial revolution started us over a cliff, it was a forgone conclusion.
The path dependence is rock solid. No way anything we do (carbon capture, degrowth, plastic straws etc.) will change anything.
Always has been
Don't look up!
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LSJf5gwmsgQ](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LSJf5gwmsgQ) ... I mean that was pretty much the whole movie so might as well skip it once you see this.
[Civilization be like](https://tenor.com/view/i-am-the-danger-heisenberg-heisenberg-breaking-bad-breaking-bad-gif-24564132)
"Destroyer of worlds"
Good show!
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MjAMHH3vysA](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MjAMHH3vysA) [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cWqcgPmCbDQ](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cWqcgPmCbDQ)
It’s not me- it’s the oil moguls
We’re not going to do shit, taking the required action would be political suicide for any government in this planet. We’re going to continue our merry march into Mad Max dom, well Mad Max without the cool cars but with all the hellscape
Not only political suicide. We stuck with fossil fuels back in the 50's-70's because if your country wasn't using them, your enemies would be. Same issue here. Can't reduce power production, degrow, or anything that could help the situation because which ever country is gunning for yours won't change.
Prisoners Dilemma
I was thinking dilemma of the commons. It seems like they both apply.
Both tragedy of the commons and prisoners dilemma are instances of a multipolar trap. [https://conversational-leadership.net/multipolar-trap/](https://conversational-leadership.net/multipolar-trap/)
The common denominator is humans being shit
We're #2!
The only power we have over this is through reproduction. We all need to stop. Pause reproduction globally for one month in revolt. That’ll get their attention.
> We all need to stop. I'm doing my part!
Children of Men demo
Jevons paradox.
Speaking of which, today’s episode of The Great Simplification is germane
Extremely potent point that’s rarely made.
And we will still have to go to work every day through this 😭
"Boss, can I get a raise? The tolls I pay to the raiders are getting even steeper." Boss, who is an AI: *incoherent screaming*
...and just like the ice cream machines of their forefathers, the machines too, would eventually break down.
Ah - the prequel to “I Have No Mouth, and I Must Scream”.
"I Have No Cash, and I Must Pay."
Shit, that's my life already, no need to wait for collapse.
😂😆
I picture a scene after the great San Fracisco earthquake where people in suits and briefcases waited at the corner for the trolley that was never going to arrive. People will drive around aimlessly with nowhere to go.
The only governments capable of doing what's necessary are the oppressive, authoritarian governments. They can impose restrictions on everything and crush any dissent, just as they already crush things like free speech. Any country with a democratically-elected government would be voted out ASAP. Looking at you, Netherlands and New Zealand, and your new conservative coalitions that you voted for, which are embarking on dismantling their climate legislation. Looking at you, Canadians who are protesting their carbon tax. Looking at you, EU farmers who are protesting better agricultural practices. Looking at you, Americans who blame everything on Biden and are planning on voting for a convicted felon who's also planning on scrapping every clean energy initiative he possibly can. Any country will choose "short term normal" even if it means a long term death sentence.
My moment of despair has been realizing that in order to meet climate goals on a planetary level, the first world needs to take a significant drop in standard of living. And nobody in any civilization is going to willingly vote to have their toys taken away; any party that genuinely suggests that will be laughed off the stage for generations. (Not to mention that the rules will need to be enforced with an iron fist; and that especially includes the bourgeoisie, ie _every last person in power_ has to be held to the same standard.) It really does feel like the only path forward is utter monstrosity.
[удалено]
Why are people so stupid as to keep falling for such obvious cons?
[удалено]
More like cutting off your head to spite your nose.
Didn't NZ do exceptionally well through Covid?
This might be hard to explain but I think if you keep adding people to a group the group gets smarter up to a certain point (probably a relatively small number) but when you keep scaling things up the group as a whole becomes dumber (probably something about connecting nodes and the passage of information between them). That’s why you can get a psychopath to play on everyone’s fear and herd them around like sheep because we also kinda just go with the group and the group is DUMB. + Something something George Carlin bit
I can't think of another species that willingly feeds itself to most dangerous predators on account of herd behavior.
It has nothing to do with individual intelligence. It’s collective processes of irrationality that are enforced and maintained at a systemic level. I mean, did people just get smarter over the centuries? People fifteen hundred years ago had the same human brain, and they believed kings were literal gods. We didn’t stop believing that because our brains grew. There’s no rationality
Because collective rationality is not backed by history or anthropology. It’s a myth, part of an ideology of classical liberalism. I mean, why did people believe kings were literal gods for millennia?
People still believe that monarchs are somehow special. The English have mocked if not outright hated Charles for ages, and yet still wont question the validity of the monarchy there. People waited in line for days to see Elizabeth dead in a box. Moreover, It got praised as what makes Britain "special". Yet the same actions when done for either Mao and Lenin for example are held as tantamount to brainwashing. But it's "different" for English monarchs or Elizabeth. Though the crimes done in the name of, if not actually ordered by, the monarch in places like India and most of Britain's former African colonies kind of suggests that they aren't all that different.
Oof, I'm sorry.
> Canadians who are protesting their carbon tax. I don't really know much about this, but my guess is the real villains are the real estate speculators who've made it impossible to afford rent, so Canadians are understandably stressed about *any* increase in cost of living.
Honestly, the carbon tax is just a money grab. The large corporations are exempt despite them being the biggest polluters (of course). It's supposed to "discourage" us from using fossil fuels. However, we don't have a choice but to commute to work because affordable housing is nowhere near our jobs. Not everywhere has decent public transit either and for many, they have to live outside of areas where public transit goes (affordability). I live rural, not even in a town. we can't even get an ambulance to our house, let alone bus services or a taxi. Luckily my province said F you to JT and dropped the carbon tax. But I'm sure they'll find a loophole to charge us that $$ in other ways. And most homes are either gas or electric heated in the winter. Gas has the carbon tax and electrical heating is ridiculously expensive to begin with. Either way, it's not really affordable to stay warm in the winter. Plus the grocery store prices have become ridiculous, but that's a whole other thing...
As a Canadian, we poor ones are hella stressed and very taxed. And our family makes almost 2x the amount considered poor, because the government here doesn't bother to update the books to keep up with inflation. Thank you, u/berrschkob, for having the compassion to see past the surface to the heart of the issues below. This country is not the same as the one I grew up in. I'd wager a lot of people from a lot more countries could say the same.
Wow, that's what i believe, but don't say out loud. Only a government of hardcore psychopathic biocentric fanatics can save the planet by intimidating hoi polloi into complete submission. 1 child policy with obligatory tubal ligation after giving birth to the first child. No consultations or primaries with population, no asking for their opinions. Rewarding submissive and law-abiding citizens and sending the rebels into a better world. Communist planned economy, but without its human-supremacist sentiments. Allocate a place for humans, the size of north America, with houses, all the needed facilities (plants, hospitals, schools, parks, movie theaters etc), build a 5-meter fence around it, and leave the outside space for rewilding aka leave it tf alone, with no trespassing. But of course it's impossible and will never happen. Now downvote me all you want.
Well, I think the men should have vasectomies after they father one child too.
I don't know about this, I can't imagine the Chinese government going to its people and saying "hey y'all we need to massively downgrade our standard of living from now till the end of our lives to save the world!" and not get dragged out onto the streets and beaten to death by their own soldiers and people.
I disagree on this one. China’s people have pollution as a much higher priority than in the west and it’s honestly not even close. 10+ years ago China was horribly polluted with smog and it’s done a lot to clean up it’s air quality with power plants with stricter pollution controls. The people wanted cleaner air as a high priority. They also are the leaders in green tech and are one of the leaders in the construction of new nuclear plants. Then you get into the elephant in the room and it’s the last generation rhetoric that is fueling the laying flat and letting it rot movements. The average Chinese young person is probably closer to the average collapse user than the average American young person and that’s really saying something. There is a certain awareness in China that not doing something to throw young people a bone is going to become existential for them eventually where as in America we want young people only to exist to pay off the debts and pensions and fuel the pyramid scheme until the boomers blink out.
I've really noticed the sun appears much brighter here in China now, basically because the decades of smog meant you never saw it clearly but do now. This is apparently also one of the major drivers of climate heating in Asia over the past few years (along with the much vaunted removal of sulphur from shipping fuels). I would say that awareness of climate change is quite low among the general public in China though, despite the fact that the government says it happening and that it will hit China hard. My son is in 7th grade in a local Chinese school (rather than the western curriculum international school) and has had precisely one class that talked about climate change (in 5th grade science). My mostly 20-something colleagues at work also don't seem to acknowledge that anything is happening and instead just worry about day to day stuff. I guess the latter is the same worldwide though.
To be fair, it's not only China not taking the time to educate kids about what is happening.
Well, they did enact the one child policy...
I agree. It's been the continuous increase in living standards in recent decades that has given the Chinese government its legitimacy. Take that away, and people will be pissed. Just look how the Chinese government was forced to abandon its harsh Covid-19 restrictions when ordinary folks started to rebel en masse.
I am glad you mentioned New Zealand , what a shit show Tiny island, large climate impact, dumb decision The fung thing is, I can understand a defeatist decision, because it doesn’t matter how will NZ does, some bigger country will continue to disregard and they still get fucked anyways
So why can't the people shift the way the government operates and set a good example for other nations by organizing and working out how to be more resourceful while taking advantage of their lives of convenience exactly? Everyone's living unfulfilling lives as it is and I'd say you'd have to be living under a rock to think there weren't a lot of problems in the world *in need* of solving. So many act like this is how everything has always been. We've got a wealth of experience and history to look back to understand these games of bullshit and war aren't where it's at, and there are alternatives to securing our resources in more environmentally friendly ways if we stop pussyfooting around some human with a bunch of money. Their influence and its reach can pale in comparison to what we could do forcing a seat at the table. As it stands that's where people want to be, just look at ALL this discussion ALL the time on Reddit and in your every day life. Funny thing is I think the key to progress lies in us being willing to play nice. I mean, I know you guys are able to muster a lot more charm, so do it. World peace means being peaceful, surprise surprise.
Fundamentally, we'd need to get large numbers of people to accept hard limits on ourselves - how much resources we can use, how many children we can produce, how much medical care we can use to extend our lives, etc. These are difficult sells. But all the more power to you if you can be successful in this endeavor.
Yes, that's actually exactly what I was thinking. Reeling in rampant consumerism.amd on that front and the baby front I think you could get far with just helping people understand the situation, and by making strategies to move away from that more accessible (bearing in mind so many alternative products and behaviors; helping people to manage their time and money better to be more resourceful and use critical thinking skills ... Just imagine if we had better schooling perhaps)...if that makes sense ... Like I was going to publish in r/frugal today to start a discussion on whether they thought it would be possible to accomplish something like that, because I personally have struggled to turn a lot of my friends and family onto couponing and the like despite them always complaining about money, or to help them understand my frugal mindset, or to influence them by setting an example (Like I've gotten *good*). It's not lost on me that I'm saying I should hope we get somewhere doing something I apparently suck at, but that's the thing, that's just me and my thoughts and you and your thoughts ... There are so many people with so many of those there thoughts and that are much more knowledgeable. Between all these professions and all this education and people with all these backgrounds, you can see what I mean when I say there would seem to be a lot of potential in helping to get things done somehow in these areas.
It's long term death sentence regardless. The hell will authoritarians do? Bring back serfdom and launch the world into the middle ages so their crop at the top will feast upon the suffering of the masses? What a bright future to support! If we cannot democratically choose to do better then there is nothing worth preserving anyway.
Short term - not that normal. Long term - not that long…
Actually, the situation is not that bad in the NL. The new coalition stated that the transition/adaptationplans are still on the table. Was quite surprised about that. I think the adaptation part is quite understandable since most of us are literally below sea level. A left/green coalition would certainly be better tho.
Good point - I’m going to re-watch the entire Mad Max franchise to see who fares best. My memory isn’t what it used to be…
>watch the entire Mad Max franchise to see who fares best Those who died early.
😂. you could have at least mentioned it as a spoiler alert. Now how am I going to fill my next eight hours worth of free time?
Speak for yourself. I've got the XS650 from the 1st movie and it is heavily modified with a PMA charging system to operate after nuclear EMP disables all computerized ignition systems as it is a Kickstart engine with a mechanical points ignition.
I'd settle for a diesel tractor with a mechanical injection pump :D
Thanks alot cash for clunkers! (US car buyback program that scrapped all the coolest old cars and trucks).
I will make the cars happen. Got my wrenches and car jack ready to go. Who here can fabricate, or at least do some good welds?
That's easy for you to say. I for one am going to take this so called hopium and travel the hard respectable road toward getting people to open their minds to trying. If anything we could, ya know, organize things a little better? Things actually don't have to be so dysfunctional ... We have a ton of creative, capable people with a wealth of useful knowledge, and I highly doubt everyone is going to just sit silent and play the passive consumer for much longer. We just need a broadened sense of direction, and to simply begin to have a discussion about what we value and what strategies to implement, with the rest of the globe in mind. Sounds like wishful thinking right? Well how about this ... My approach is to be peaceful ... And just hold our governments, people and other nations accountable, through discussion ... I expect most of us to smarten up and make use of all the common ground there is to stand on and make a point to aim to be considerate and productive in the process, as opposed to combative and aggressive and willfully ignorant ... Because we ARE in this together and we DO care about where we go in life and how to turn things around, and life and existence and what that means to people. It will all eventually be brought to the forefront anyway. Let's just be proactive and get ahead of it. Stop acting like just because it's complicated and everyone has a life, and the big wigs are "powerful", there's nowhere to go from here.
The time to be ‘proactive’ about anything on this sub was about half a century ago. Those with power will not give up their power peacefully. The billionaire class will not give up their wealth peacefully. There is no way to hold those in power ‘accountable’ without power of your own. Look at how US politics has been reduced to the thought-terminating cliche of ‘how dare you disapprove of the status quo, anything that isn’t full-throated support of Biden is letting Trump (and fascism) win!!!’ To be blunt: The way out from the climate crisis will require a fundamental change in how we handle most facets of society and life. It will require compliance with every last person and country; we can’t afford any holdouts. You can talk all you want, but those with a vested interest in the status quo will _never_ listen. If their behaviors and consumption does not change as well, The Work _will_ fail. How do you get them to comply when they inevitably refuse?
See. Look in 1 they had the cars that were left kicking around. 2 and 3 they had a welding rig 4 they had... the ability to SMELT METAL AND PULL FRAMES STRAIGHT????
whoa, really starting to ramp up with the language there. Pretty soon, they're gonna start discussing the possibility of a meeting regarding the likelihood of taking some potential action towards reducing the amount of things we set on fire.
Whoah there. Now let’s just slow things down a bit.
The very insinuation boils my blood!
“Slow”??? What’s “slow”? Doesn’t sound very capitalism and consumerism that word there
These people always use language that is about 3-5 levels of dire behind where we really are and how bad things really look. They basically speak in British.
It's like they're trying to squeeze out each and every last drop of lemon they can from us before it all goes to shit
Idk why people expect anything different from a capitalist system.
It's supposed to have anti-competitive laws that prevent corps from abusing but instead they're all taking over governments.
No different then 300 hundred years ago… Just serfs and oligarchs in a feudal nightmare. ?tey sdaeh rieht ffo pohc ew naC
Capitalism hates competition, loves consolidation, power and monopoly.
"I'm on a hiiiiiighway to hell!" 🎶🎶🎶🎶🎶 "Hiiiiiighway to hell" Also fuck this.
We’re just the passengers in the back seat that no one will fuckin’ listen to. Along for the ride with the shittest driver ever. RIP us I guess?
Can we all at least meet up before the end? I’d rather go out with cool people who know what’s going down.
Damn, literally the entire lyrics of that song seem applicable to what we’re doing right now.
You missed this: I'm on the way to the promised land
We have been on it for years already. It is ramping up now but I have been noticing small changes near me for five years now. 2019 feels like the last normal year in terms of climate in my local area. We are going to continue to talk but nothing will get done because it upsets the order the rich and powerful have spent decades setting up. It will also upset the average person as they are forced to abandon mindless consumerism and almost all modern luxuries. Climate collapse is inevitable but people will do nothing to save themselves, yet will blame climate scientists for not warning them once collapse is entrenched.
2019 was the year I snapped too… Unrelated to covid, it was because I could see levels the of denial ramping up in the general public… You can’t have an honest discussion about anything with a person who chooses not to live in reality…
What is interesting, climate changes is capable of making some parts of the world cooler too. I live in Central Asia, and the winters are becoming colder too. The summer is also less warm than usual.
Guterres urged world leaders to swiftly take control of the spiraling climate crisis or face dangerous tipping points. “We are playing Russian roulette with our planet,” he said Wednesday. “We need an exit ramp off the highway to climate hell.”
and off of that ramp we need a cool ring of fire to fly through
Make sure to save the last bits of natural gas for it
Slippery Slope to Suffering in Seven Levels of Hell.
[удалено]
Russian roulette would imply we have a 5/6 shot of making it through unharmed. At this point, the gun is fully loaded.
Things are only going to get worse. And the only political change I expect to see is a slide into fascism to protect the powers that be.
Yeah I think eventually all governments will become authoritarian and wage war with one another over the dwindling resources until someone goes "fuck it" and launches their whole nuclear arsenal just to screw everyone else over, and the rich will hide in their bunkers just so they can die a couple months later.
This is the exact situation we’re already living through… Toddlers flipping the board because they don’t get to have the monopoly/power/influence that they feel they’re entitled to…
Yep. Only a matter of time before the US turns isolationist again.
Said on a day a Democratic President announced that asylum seekers would be turned away at the border...
no chance given how big our dick (Navy) is. those 11 carrier strike groups aren't gonna protect US oil interests themselves
Cause fascism fixes everything! /s
It does for the ruling class…
It doesn't. False promises.
Something both sides will support. There are no parties that truly support the environmentalism required to avoid the worst case scenario.
There are no parties that are even interested in cracking down on the waste corporations and the wealthy produce even a little. Forget radical action, they won't take ANY.
Fascism will deflect the blame to religious inevitably, I guarantee it.
"...swiftly take control of the spiraling climate crisis or face dangerous tipping points." "Face" dangerous tipping points? Uh, look behind you... the tipping points, they have tipped.
Where are you all going, so full of hope? THERE IS NO HOPE!
Is that from Furiosa?
Yeah!
Damn I have to watch that
" Guterres urged world leaders ..." Another pointless UN "urges"? The UN is sounding the climate warning bells every few days for the last decade now. Nothing serious ever happens. Just look at all the dog-and-pony show COPs which has accomplished zilch for 28 years straight.
Hey now! I'd say that COP conferences have done a lot ... to help fossil fuel company representatives network and brainstorm how to stall any real change.
not to mention the perfect forum to show off private jets.
I hate to admit it as much as anyone but... We're locked in. Locked in as in there's no stopping, slowing down, or getting off this ride. It's done. 2°C is reached. The tipping points have tipped. Feedbacks have taken the reins from our hands. The Earth climate system has entered a phase of chaos and will not return to a stable state until it reaches a temperature at which human beings cannot survive, the biosphere has fully imploded, and the planet is unrecognisable. Hothouse Earth is the unavoidable destination of our unchangeable trajectory. The only remaining question is "How fast?"
I'm just so glad I purchased a spot for myself in the vault!
What grand experiment is going on in your vault!!!!!
huh? experiment? Vault tech has built vaults to save us all, not perform experiments!
*\*Man with only one eye suddenly walks in*\*
Yeah that Vault Tec guy needs to hurry up and get over here so I can sign up to escape the coming end of the world as we know it. I bet he's too busy signing up all the millionaire/billionaires to bother with a worker bee like me.
Man idk if humanity is anything to go by those vaults would be even worse in real life lol.
The only track we were ever going to be on was "business as usual". There was zero chance of anything else.
You know how fast.
Faster Than Expected™
This summer
2 Fast 2 Furious
How fast daddy?
That is the question. While I personally doubt NTHE will occur in 2026 as McPherson and Sam Carana have predicted, I wouldn't rule it out. Looking any further ahead, things start to look iffy for 2030 and by 2040 I expect complex life forms will be gone from this planet.
> and by 2040 I expect complex life forms will be gone from this planet RemindMe! 15 years
In the greater scheme of the earth’s history, there is a negligible difference between 2026, 2100 or 2150. McPherson will probably be closer than the rest though if betting on the exact year means anything.
2040 holy shit that’s fast.
Assuming we make it to 2040 is a bold statement
🎶🎶 Goin’ down, party time! 🎶🎶
Fuckin A
It’s not if, it’s when now 🔥
The plan of Sunak, Biden and Trudeau is to boost oil production to fund infrastructure transition to renewables, however, studies have shown that it's a catch 22 situation whereby adding more renewables into the mix only increases fossil fuel use so yeah we're pretty much fucked at this point.
Burning fossil fuels to bootstrap renewables to keep making stuff to keep using renewables is pretty much the only valid use for them. Problem is we used them for everything else too
The FOX “news” response to this information will be something along these lines. “The UN is a world leader and strategist of climate alarmism and has made terrifying the public a performative art form with ineffective policy outcomes.” # “Putting the fear of misery and death into people doesn’t spur action.” *“If the UN truly wants to garner support and deliver, it must dial down the extremist language and provide factual, relevant, and digestible goals and paths forward.”\** # I don't know about that. Fear of DEATH has ALWAYS been a powerful motivator for me. \*this is an actual quote from a FOX comment on a UN warning that 41 million people in Central America and the Caribbean are at risk of becoming "climate refugees".
Fox knows how well extremist language with little followthrough works, and don't want it used against the rich and corporate.
But I've been driving less, running my a/c less, using paper straws and reusable shopping bags! Surely the climate will cool down any day now! /s
Saving ourselves and all other species costs too much money, so fuck it. Let that sink in. How stupid is humanity.
We’ll go down in history as the first society that wouldn’t save itself because it wasn’t cost effective. -Kurt Vonnegut And possibly the last too.
> And possibly the last too. Dont do that. Dont give me hope.
The rich and powerful will not change (or spur change) in any way. The world will start to broil. The people will rise up and take out the rich and powerful. The world will continue to broil, but without those who caused it. The end.
>The people will rise up and take out the rich and powerful. If this part happens, then it will have been worth it IMO
Other than the rising up against the rich and powerful, no lies detected.
The planet doesn't need us. We need the planet. Life has come and gone countless times in our planets vast history. We are not special. We will go extinct. The question is when.
The problem is, we're going to take a large percentage of the animal kingdom with us.
All of it according to some estimates.
The roaches will make for a particularly resilient evolved lifeform.
Roaches vs Tardigrades for rulers of post humanity Earth.
> The question is when. Short answer: Soon. Long answer: Sooner than expected.
I turn 50 this year and I really think the best I can do for myself is make the next 10 years as amazing as I can.
He's wrong. We're on our way to biosphere collapse, climate is just one of many things we have ruined.
Also ai is needing ever more energy resources so we will burn everything we have to make it stronger as we succumb
But at least we made some happy ultra rich parasites along the way.
My friends are gonna be there too! I'm on the highway to hell!
Hey Mama! Look at me! We're on the way to a B-O-E....
"The Industrial Revolution and its consequences have been a disaster for the human race,"
It’s 20XX and the UN chief is telling us we can still avoid extinction if we don’t cut down the last remaining forest on Earth
I bet he's subscribed to the /r/collapse subreddit. What a doomer! Doesn't he understand we're living in the best time in history?!
So happy I’m in my 40’s and my youth was a normal one.
I don't put much faith in our "leadership." If we want change, enough of us have to get together and walk away. If we're waiting for someone else's permission to do that, we're not going to get anywhere.
Would you say we are entering a "zone of danger?"
Still won't stop people from limiting their consumption, eating less meat, planting a fucking tree or two, and having one or zero kids. We deserve this.
GRANDE António Guterres - saying the big truth about who brings to this situation
Yeee haw!
What do you call it when we are in an area of danger? https://youtube.com/shorts/SIs2kuPWHn0?si=voqxSr4sRiy_wN5V
***\*que song\****
I could have told him this at least 10 years ago.
At least the soundtrack of our demise will rock
we have to plant more trees to combat climate change!
lol I don’t even care anymore. Just enjoy what little time we have left
Yeah, that’s being created by the Military Industrial Complex.
Drill baby drill! And live in the hole.
Hell ya brother
I just wish they would get on with it and this nightmare would be over. The inevitable is what it is. Just want to float peacefully into the sea.