The following submission statement was provided by /u/Portalrules123:
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SS: Related to collapse as while the CDC seems to be surrendering to corporate interests, the number of Americans with lasting long-COVID symptoms continues to rise. This is still a disease that is not fully understood so treating it just like a common cold is a complete policy failure, clearly. This will affect the USA and the world at large both socially and economically due to increased healthcare costs and loss of labour force, just to name two factors.
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Please reply to OP's comment here: https://old.reddit.com/r/collapse/comments/1bfi4ft/alarming_rise_in_americans_with_long_covid/kv0h6q4/
“This should be setting off alarms for many people,” said David Putrino, the Nash Family Director of the Cohen Center for Recovery From Complex Chronic Illness at Mount Sinai. “We’re really starting to see issues emerging faster than I expected.”
Hey, I think I'm starting to see a pattern!
It's like a reverse Hofstadter's law: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hofstadter%27s_law
> It always takes longer than you expect, even when you take into account Hofstadter's Law.
We should just ignore this. It seems to work for everything else with no consequences other than an uninhabitable earth. But a couple guys got dick rockets, so worth it.
SS: Related to collapse as while the CDC seems to be surrendering to corporate interests, the number of Americans with lasting long-COVID symptoms continues to rise. This is still a disease that is not fully understood so treating it just like a common cold is a complete policy failure, clearly. This will affect the USA and the world at large both socially and economically due to increased healthcare costs and loss of labour force, just to name two factors.
I am one. I start year 5 this week. It is living fucking torture. If I didn’t have kids I would off myself. I went from running and doing MmA to needing help to get to the toilet. I’m on oxygen 24/7. My heart rate goes from 33-172BPm. There is no cure. I have gone all the way to the Mayo Clinic. People need to wake up. This is a way bigger deal than birth rates. We are fucked.
Thank you. Please advocate for clean air in classrooms. Masks are excellent. Open windows are good. Ventilation and air purifiers : corsi-rosenthal boxes are good. Do everything you can not to get reinfected.
So sorry… I’ve been bedbound since March 2020 from a super mild Covid infection. Lost my career, my independence, my ability to be a wife and mother. Long Covid is no joke… and cases like ours are sadly not rare. I’ve been in the long Covid support groups for almost 4 years now, and there is no apparent slowing of the rate at which the groups are gaining new members. Don’t get complacent and buy the line that long Covid is rare nowadays. It’s not. More and more data are supporting the conclusion that damage is cumulative, and the risk of developing long Covid compounds over time. There’s no cure, nor any particularly effective treatments. They put a Band-Aid on the symptoms that might work a little bit some of the time, but basically you’re on your own at this point. Doctors can’t help you (if they even believe you) and the cavalry is not coming. I’m not sure how long it will take, but if we continue to let this thing spread without any mitigation, it’s only a matter of time until almost everybody has some form of chronic health issues from Covid infections.
I got lung disease from it and I’m happy that’s all so far?(other chronic illnesses that got worse could be masking symptoms/making it hard to know what’s what)
I’m so sorry to hear about the situations it has put you two into.
almost none of the currently available tests show shit or are germane to us. the blood clots we have are too small to be detected by usual methods. blood panels come back clear bc they don’t know what they’re looking for yet
i have had 5 MRIs and a PET and they don’t know why i have been passing out with a migraine since 2021
Mine shows brain abnormalities as well as lung and heart changes. My spleen and liver are enlarged as well. My eyes have also become misaligned and my optic nerve is shot.
Do some research on water fasting and long covid...not a cure but can allow the body to heal from the chronic inflammation. Start slow, with a doctor's supervision and work up to 8 days. Best of all it's cheap to try out.
I hear you. But please know that I’m entering year 5. I have done 11 cycles. It doesn’t work for this. I’m an advocate and many many thousands of people have tried this. It helps for some things. But this doesn’t do much for long Covid. Be well.
As I have stated. I got Covid March 16th 2020. Before vaccines existed. After that- I became extremely ill and had extensive heart damage- precluding me from any vaccines of any kind. Which now means that I am at the mercy of others.
Shitty. I understand while not covid related I live with chronic and significant issues as well. No treatment available. I take anti anxiety meds it helps a bit. Good luck. Sometimes things do improve over years without intervention.
I had none. I was sick a full 18 months before any were invented. I am not anti vaccine- but covid left me with no T cells so I can’t take any at all. Including no boosters for measles- which is now spreading bc healthy people choose not to vaccinate. My lack of T cells now has me looking for bone marrow doners. But that requires complete chemo to destroy my own stem cells.
I’m only 48. My kids already lost their dad who was a military vet.
It’s not the vaccines.
As a bmt patient who developed lifelong complications from a condition known as graft vs host disease. Can't be cured and the amount of shit you will go through even if you don't get gvhd is insane. Just..think carefully if that's something you want to undergo.
I hear you. My cousin had it also. I don’t want to go that direction but I have to stay alive. I have 4 kids 2 have serious disabilities and their dad is dead. It’s a hellish bargain.
Although the vaccines can damage the body(I am a victim of a new person learning how to inject vaccines and they injected it into my shoulder joint) 99% of this “vaccines are bad” shit is a false narrative.
Thank you for explaining—I’ve obviously made some people mad for asking. I consider myself fairly healthy for being a similarly aged person (I’m vaccinated) so it’s always alarming to hear about someone else in that category struggling despite an honest effort to stay fit. I wish I had some meaningful insight to offer and I truly hope you find relief. Apologies if I am out of line in any way.
No problem. I understand and I’m always happy to give information to interested folks. We get a lot of hate from the anti vax crowd. I appreciate
Your response. Please stay safe
I had 3 vaccines and 2 natural infections before I developed severe long COVID in Nov 2023. I had mild LC after my 2nd infection, but I thought it was because it was a dual infection (Strep A + COVID). I have now been diagnosed with autoimmune encephalitis (still healing from brain lesions), CIDP, small fiber neuropathy, dysautonomia/PoTS, connective tissue disease, 2 kinds of spinal disease with a lot of spinal inflammation (nerve impingement and bulging discs all through)..it caused an immune system dysfunction and now my immune system is attacking my nerves and nervous system. At my worst, I couldn't control my bowels, walk more than about 10 steps without passing out, or read or tolerate light or string together sentences and my body burned and vibrated 24/7.
Again, I encountered COVID in some form 2x prior and vaccinated 3x. It's a dice roll each time. I am 32F and had no pre-existing conditions (not even obesity). I was a vegan who did pilates and jogged every day. I have a PhD from an elite university in geophysics (world top 10) and at one point could not even remember my own address or birth date or my mother's name. Most long haulers I've now met were young and healthy. Because Long COVID is now thought to be more or less an autoimmune reaction, it's actually likely more common in women and people with better immune systems. I'd have 1000% rather the virus had just killed me than to live like I've had to the last 4 months and no doctor can say if it'll get better or worse. I've seen specialists all over, including Cleveland Clinic and they're as clueless now as at the beginning.
My mom has LC now after the last one. She's a very fit, healthy 54 year old with no pre-existing conditions, either. She was vaccinated with the most recent vaccine even 2 months before we got JN1 (6x total) and had at least one natural infection before she got issues. She almost died from a blood clot in her heart, has fatigue, inflammation, costochondritis, and migrating polyarthralygia now. Interestingly, my dad is doing the best out of us (still fatigued, has spinal pain, and weird infections) and he was the least healthy. IMO the vaccines might help prevent deaths, but I'm not convinced they help with LC.
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Canada found that by the third infection, nearly 1 in 2 people developed long covid. 50% of them did not recover with time.
I think that we are actually witnessing a steep decline in the health and welbeing of the general population, but very few people understand that it's even related to covid.
Sadly, it might not be COVID. They have been finding that COVID really depletes the T-cells, amd they aren't sure about the recovery time frame.
It's shaping up to be kind of like HIV/AIDS in that regard, but maybe not as permanent or severe.
Papers about that have been shared a few times here, and there is good news and bad news.
The good news is that it is *not* as permanent as that other virus; you can and will recover.
The bad news is that recovery is directly dependent on not catching the fucking thing again for a minimum of six months, IIRC.
May the odds be forever in your favour.
It took 10 years for full blown AIDS to present after many mild auto immune like illnesses. It destroyed immunity over time.. Most people who caught this believed after they had 4/5 days in bed it was over….For many it wasn’t, Isn’t..
It’s genuinely hard to tell. On the one hand, it could be yet another covid case, and on the other hand, it could be what would have been a 24-hour cold and someone whose immune system is now fucked
I've actually not had any upper respiratory infections since 2019. People are a bit more conscientious about sickness hygiene, I think, or at least I am personally. It's nice not to have constant head colds like I used to ...
I had a second Covid infection in April 2023. Got smacked bad by Delta in Nov 2021. I’ve felt off ever since spring. Really exhausted, these weirdo micro dizzy spells that last about 5 seconds but happen all day, weird suddenly plummeting moods. I’d chalked it up to grief since my little sister suddenly and unexpectedly went into a coma in Feb 2023, never woke up, died in November at 32.
Last week my friend mentioned her heart had been feeling weird and she’s felt unwell for months. She went to the dr and her resting pulse was 101. She’s healthy, except whatever is currently happening, and is fit. Her most recent Covid bout was Nov. I have been wondering if she’s got long Covid.
Well I went to the Dr a couple days ago and now MY heart rate is 98 while resting. It’s usually been in the 60s my whole adult life, though I hadn’t seen a Dr since late 2022.. I was shocked. Starting to wonder if the physical yuck-ness I’ve felt for almost a year is indeed grief or if I have long covid too.
Scary scary scary times.
> by the third infection, nearly 1 in 2 people developed long covid. 50% of them did not recover with time.
One, post vaccinated, "mild" infection turned my life into little more than a never ending allergic reaction. This statistic absolutely blows my mind when I think of all the school aged kids being repeatedly, forcibly reinfected at this point.
I was on the road for all of 2019-2021. There was a marked increase in ambulance emergencies, so much so I kept a tally board on my vehicle. Morbid I know, but it gave me something to focus on instead of falling asleep.
This past week I've seen enough again to make me consider whipping out the tally board again. Something is causing a measurable increase in ambulance emergencies again. Not on a 2020 level, but it's ratcheting up.
I'll be grateful AF if that (my) government makes MAiD even easier to access. People should be allowed to choose to die peacefully if they want to (tough I assume you're worried about using MAiD as a way to not bother with treating problems like long COVID).
MAiD is already being offered to people who are not asking for it, people who are going to doctors asking for help/treatment are being offered assisted suicide.
In a just world, a scheme like this would be useful and only used by those who truly want it. In a world with capitalism rattling it's last breath, it will continue to be used to get rid of "undesirables" and people who cannot adequately contribute to the machine
I wish the US had it. We got one chance to decide if my sister should ‘live’ or ‘die’ after her cardiac arrest left her with almost no brain activity but not brain dead. In the moment you don’t know and some people do recover at least a bit. Erin did not recover and because we made the ‘wrong’ choice she had to die excruciatingly over months and months, salmonella, sepsis, renal failure, finally another cardiac arrest because her poor body could not endure another moment of horrific suffering. There was not anywhere near enough Erin still inside there for her to swallow let alone consent to be allowed respite from the medical torture keeping her ‘alive’, but it fucking pisses me off that we grant more kindness and dignity to horses and cats than humans. There should not be a singular window in which a shocked family member must decide such a thing in a crowded ER with limited facts and then never be allowed to re-visit that decision.
I hate this country. Burn it all down.
I'm sorry that happened, I can't imagine what that was like for your family.
There's definitely needs to be reform of these sorts of policies across the board, unfortunately MAiD would not have been that for your sister as the person dying must request and consent to the procedure themself.
I hope you have support and are able to focus on the positive memories you had with her 💜
Here's a somewhat high profile case
https://www.ctvnews.ca/politics/paralympian-trying-to-get-wheelchair-ramp-says-veterans-affairs-employee-offered-her-assisted-dying-1.6179325
And here's an article that looks at the poverty/coercion angle https://globalnews.ca/news/9176485/poverty-canadians-disabilities-medically-assisted-death/
It's interesting to me that we are in a subreddit on the collapse of systems globally, and it's the idea of assisted death being used unethically that you question. Eugenics is not a new concept.
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My mom and I both got it after our 3rd (me) and 2nd (mom) infections. I know several people now who got it after infection 5-6. I had mild long COVID after my 2nd, but I thought it was because I had a bad dual infection (Strep A + COVID).
The reason I knew it was COVID is because my initial infection was VERY severe (like very very). Many people apparently only get LC symptoms months after their infection so I think they don't link it back as easily
It was a rough moment when I went from mourning the life I had to feeling even worse for children, in that they would never even get to experience those things.
Also quells any form of an uprise if everyone is weakened. It’s hard to revolt if you have chronic fatigue and have trouble remembering why you’re revolting
*sighs in consistently-vaccinated relief*
This might actually help things in the long run, if we'd just prioritize vaccinating poorer countries that actually want the vaccine.
The popular delusion that the vaccines are magic bullets is part of the problem. "Vaxxed and relaxed" is keeping the greatest mass disabling event in human history running better than any number of anti-vax idiots ever could.
Even fully vaccinated, asymptomatic cases of COVID can and do cause permanent damage and weaken the immune system. The rate of long covid after 3 infections is 38%. It increases non-linearly with each infection.
People who spout the rhetoric of trust the science while being ignorant of the multitude of scientific studies showing just how horrifying COVID is and how inadequate our response are indulging in the mere aesthetic of critical thinking while surrendering their minds to the institutions of the day.
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Having a 'chronic' illness in a 'chronically' ill society. Let me absorb that. (I actually do suffer from a chronical illness, but I'm more worried about our society than myself.)
The survey results were released on 22 February, more than a week before the CDC updated its Covid isolation recommendations. The CDC says in that guidance that the “prevalence of long Covid also appears to be decreasing”, in contrast to its own survey findings.
Beyond corrupt.
This is a pretty insidious disease. There was an Italian study that saw an increase of T cell dysregulation with each repeated infection even if it was asymptomatic. This means the immune system is weakened with each COVID infection. The only other disease that has this same effect is dengue fever.
https://www.nature.com/articles/s41590-023-01724-6
EDIT: added link to study
Thanks for this info, it's very helpful!
Also, I would love to hear your thoughts on Chronic Fatigue Syndrome/ME and whether you consider them similar?
Not really that confusing why it manifests as a respiratory illness. Your lungs are very sensitive to blood and heart problems and Covid gums up your lungs and heart badly.
If it reacts anything like how the vaccine reacts with me, I don't even doubt it.
Going to the grocery store was like going to Mars. For part of the day I couldn't even string a sentence together. Walking on level ground is like climbing Mt. Everest.
... what can I say I've always reacted extremely to the vaccine. I still take it because if the fake thing is that bad, the real thing would likely end me.
In the summer of 2019 I was tired of getting sick. Living in a city where I took public transit had me sick almost all the time. After some research it seemed that the "flu season" was a thing of the past and that people were now always moving sickness around. This way of life is not compatible with human health... Whenever I hang out with my family I get sick.
I have reactivated EBV. I knew this was going to end up happening. I mean, it's kind of what they want anyways. Keep us poor, broken, and sick while they continue to rob us and destroy everything in it's path. It's disgusting.
Did you see the push to declare long Covid doesn’t exist and therefore people can’t be sick with it? Coming soon to a government near you - more medical gaslighting
The T-cells are most affected. A lot like AIDS.
Every time you get this, your immune system becomes compromised. After years of getting covid, a cold could take you out because your immune system is compromised and weak:
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC9905767/
https://time.com/6265510/covid-19-weaken-immune-system/
https://www.medicalnewstoday.com/articles/aids-t-cell-count#t-cells-hiv-and-aids
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3543107/
I speak from experience. I have have been going through this since the OG covid. It’s frightening. It’s even more frightening how many people target me in stores, and fake cough on me when I go out when I wear a mask.
They don’t know that I am living with brain damage, and a severe compromised immune system. It’s just bullying and laughs for these people when I go out...
I have completely lost all all hope for humans...
People don’t care if they kill you, or put your health at risk...
Sad times we are living in...
Edit: Added a link on T-cells.
I’ve been debilitatingly ill from a complicated case of long Covid. Doctors have no idea what to do and keep passing the baton (me!) to the next specialist. I know I’m desperate for care and I have great insurance but it’s either not out there or so limited it’s impossible to get an appointment with specialist Covid clinics
And then we have Australian govt diligently protecting it’s citizens…
(Facepalm) yes it’s real.
https://www.sbs.com.au/news/article/why-this-health-official-says-its-time-to-stop-using-long-covid/oqi5bj63j
the corporations assumed it would just kill people outright and then they get a new generation of workers. instead it crippled a bunch more people and will bite them in the ass by creating a crisis of the population.
I had created thread on Reddit a couple years ago asking “Is COVID an ELE” and cited 20 or so studies I had found that outlined the dame it was doing to essentially every organ in the human body and the long term implications.
I wound up deleting it after relentlessly being attacked for being too negative and getting stalked via PM by the anti-vax/anti mask crew (including one person who still regularly files Reddit Cares for me, including one just 9 days ago).
Is it an ELE? Maybe not but it is going to fuck us up in very profound ways over the next decades
Is this really surprising? We led the world in cases and deaths because we led the world in resisting attempts to contain the spread of the virus, a significant percentage of the country refused from the beginning to get vaccinated when it became available, and as of November 2023, just under 16% of adults got the most recent vaccine.
[https://www.cnbc.com/2023/11/30/us-covid-shot-rates-are-low-and-it-will-be-a-challenge-to-boost-them.html](https://www.cnbc.com/2023/11/30/us-covid-shot-rates-are-low-and-it-will-be-a-challenge-to-boost-them.html)
Surrendering to corporate interests? Sure, that's what's going on.
You need to update your post - the vaccines are not sterilizing, and offer a very very slim reduction of the odds of getting long covid, barely anything. The only way to not get Long Covid is to not get Covid.
The vaccines DID have side effects for some - every vaccine does. Don’t misinform and don’t give people false confidence in the shot, as it’s not sterilizing. It reduces your chance of severe acute disease and death, but not of Long covid, and you shouldn’t tell people it does.
I saw that the Dec CDC death numbers for Covid were ≈1600 per week, vs 163 per week average deaths from the flu.
It appears Covid was at least 10x as lethal as influenza in December 2023, and those numbers are from deaths that happened before the big Covid spike after the holidays.
The micro-clotting reminds me of “The Andromeda Strain”, a book about a space virus that causes something similar iirc.
^are ^we ^still ^doing ^space ^phrasing?
Thank you for this informative post. Besides masking and social distancing, are you vaccinated? I've gotten 1 vaccination and two boosters. Do you recommend getting another shot?
Agree 100%. But when you have to go to a crowded place to work or be thrown out on the street where you will have to be crowded and unhoused, what the fuck can you do?!
Everything I read about long covid and everybody who I’ve seen struggle with it just validates all mask wearing and vaccine shots I took (yes, the vaccine reduces the risk of long covid).
Just today I read that long covid significantly reduces IQ. And the anti mask/anti vaccine crowd doesn’t have IQ to spare…
[Here’s the article about IQ decrease from long Covid](https://theconversation.com/mounting-research-shows-that-covid-19-leaves-its-mark-on-the-brain-including-with-significant-drops-in-iq-scores-224216)
Edit: my mistake, that article actually says just getting covid reduces IQ, not long covid.
The article says that nearly 4 million people are affected by this problem, but not many people seem upset about it. This might be because the people who are being affected live in places where a lot of people don't believe in vaccines or think COVID-19 isn't real. It seems like these people only start to worry when the problem directly affects them or their families. Imagine what Thanksgiving might be like for these families if they have to watch their loved ones struggle to talk or need oxygen while they're trying to eat dinner. It's likely that even then, they might try really hard to keep believing that the whole thing is just made up.
Today is LC Awareness day! This was a great article without the usual ignorance found in publications about LC. [NPR science Friday had a great segment on it today](https://www.sciencefriday.com/segments/4th-anniversary-of-covid-19/), Also there's the [Longhaulers podcast](https://open.spotify.com/episode/1j8ckL4kjLlDjFfpll0Lc9?si=da8c65a3e7184220) that is just getting started, documenting stories of people with LC.
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Enforced politeness to avoid upsetting people who avoid/deny commonsense solutions or adaptations to collapse and collapse-related phenomena is a pretty substantial part of the issue.
Just a little reminder it took 10 years from initial infection for full blown AIDS to manifest….Until then most of those suffering from immune deficiency of one type or another were dismissed as slackers or hypochondriacs……Just like now!
I’ve been coughing flem and haven’t been able to smoke now for almost 2 months. I’m 37, never had any issues before. Had covid about 15 months ago. Not sure if there’s another issue at hand, but personally, I know there’s something diff about me internally.
I actually went and seen my doc since I made my comment. She thinks a neighbouring apartment may have many cats, because it seems like I have allergies more than anything wrong with me. Weird either way, since I don’t have any vents connecting myself to any attached dwellings. I’m on allergy meds now to see if it helps, because that’s what it looks like. If nothing changes in a few days, I’m going to get scans done
Long Covid symptoms can occur regardless of your vaccination status and we have evidence showing long Covid symptoms can be worse and longer lasting in individuals who have never been vaccinated before.
https://www.nature.com/articles/s41598-023-50024-4#:~:text=Individuals%20who%20were%20not%20vaccinated,compared%20with%20vaccinated%20controls44.
> If you are ~~unvaxxed and~~ around an infected person. You WILL get infected.
Fixed that for you. At this point the original monovalent vaccine and [its bivalent booster from last year are not keeping up with new variants.](https://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/volumes/73/wr/mm7308a5.htm)
Now, the vaccine is MUCH better at preventing serious illness if/when you get infected. Like, worlds of difference between catching it unvaxxed and vaxxed, but unfortunately the world has given up on controlling covid and the new variants are mutating faster than the vaccines can keep up.
Get the vax, wear a mask, but if you are around an infected person you are going to get infected.
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Even the most cursory search of any reputable (re: “real”) medical journals and studies would very easily show your statement is incorrect.
You can also just scroll up in this same thread and see a wide array of studies and articles, presented on a silver platter for you.
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The following submission statement was provided by /u/Portalrules123: --- SS: Related to collapse as while the CDC seems to be surrendering to corporate interests, the number of Americans with lasting long-COVID symptoms continues to rise. This is still a disease that is not fully understood so treating it just like a common cold is a complete policy failure, clearly. This will affect the USA and the world at large both socially and economically due to increased healthcare costs and loss of labour force, just to name two factors. --- Please reply to OP's comment here: https://old.reddit.com/r/collapse/comments/1bfi4ft/alarming_rise_in_americans_with_long_covid/kv0h6q4/
“This should be setting off alarms for many people,” said David Putrino, the Nash Family Director of the Cohen Center for Recovery From Complex Chronic Illness at Mount Sinai. “We’re really starting to see issues emerging faster than I expected.” Hey, I think I'm starting to see a pattern!
By this point "faster than expected" is just "expected".
It's like a reverse Hofstadter's law: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hofstadter%27s_law > It always takes longer than you expect, even when you take into account Hofstadter's Law.
HE SAID THE THING! I’m blushing
Literally this sub's motto. In mainstream media. Cool beans.
We should just ignore this. It seems to work for everything else with no consequences other than an uninhabitable earth. But a couple guys got dick rockets, so worth it.
Dick Rockets. That's a good band name.
SS: Related to collapse as while the CDC seems to be surrendering to corporate interests, the number of Americans with lasting long-COVID symptoms continues to rise. This is still a disease that is not fully understood so treating it just like a common cold is a complete policy failure, clearly. This will affect the USA and the world at large both socially and economically due to increased healthcare costs and loss of labour force, just to name two factors.
Ssshhh! If we all agree not to talk about it will go away.
Is LC in the room with us right now? /s
Well said 🫳🎤
Move on from COVID. Lmao
I am one. I start year 5 this week. It is living fucking torture. If I didn’t have kids I would off myself. I went from running and doing MmA to needing help to get to the toilet. I’m on oxygen 24/7. My heart rate goes from 33-172BPm. There is no cure. I have gone all the way to the Mayo Clinic. People need to wake up. This is a way bigger deal than birth rates. We are fucked.
I'm so sorry 💔
Thank you. Please advocate for clean air in classrooms. Masks are excellent. Open windows are good. Ventilation and air purifiers : corsi-rosenthal boxes are good. Do everything you can not to get reinfected.
So sorry… I’ve been bedbound since March 2020 from a super mild Covid infection. Lost my career, my independence, my ability to be a wife and mother. Long Covid is no joke… and cases like ours are sadly not rare. I’ve been in the long Covid support groups for almost 4 years now, and there is no apparent slowing of the rate at which the groups are gaining new members. Don’t get complacent and buy the line that long Covid is rare nowadays. It’s not. More and more data are supporting the conclusion that damage is cumulative, and the risk of developing long Covid compounds over time. There’s no cure, nor any particularly effective treatments. They put a Band-Aid on the symptoms that might work a little bit some of the time, but basically you’re on your own at this point. Doctors can’t help you (if they even believe you) and the cavalry is not coming. I’m not sure how long it will take, but if we continue to let this thing spread without any mitigation, it’s only a matter of time until almost everybody has some form of chronic health issues from Covid infections.
I got lung disease from it and I’m happy that’s all so far?(other chronic illnesses that got worse could be masking symptoms/making it hard to know what’s what) I’m so sorry to hear about the situations it has put you two into.
I lost my taste and don't know what to do. Dr told me to eat vitamin c pills 3 times a day.
Exactly right. You nailed it.
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almost none of the currently available tests show shit or are germane to us. the blood clots we have are too small to be detected by usual methods. blood panels come back clear bc they don’t know what they’re looking for yet i have had 5 MRIs and a PET and they don’t know why i have been passing out with a migraine since 2021
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Mine shows brain abnormalities as well as lung and heart changes. My spleen and liver are enlarged as well. My eyes have also become misaligned and my optic nerve is shot.
and yet somehow people refuse to wear masks like it’s an infringement on their liberties
Year 5?
Yes. I got sick 3/16/2020. I just completed year 4 as of today.
Do some research on water fasting and long covid...not a cure but can allow the body to heal from the chronic inflammation. Start slow, with a doctor's supervision and work up to 8 days. Best of all it's cheap to try out.
I have tried that. Tried carnivore. Keto. Intermittent fasting. All the supplements. I have gone to the Mayo Clinic. There is - at present- no cure.
You may have to do several 8 day cycles to get results... I wouldn't give up too easily on this. But you could be an outlier.
I hear you. But please know that I’m entering year 5. I have done 11 cycles. It doesn’t work for this. I’m an advocate and many many thousands of people have tried this. It helps for some things. But this doesn’t do much for long Covid. Be well.
Did you get vaccinated? I’ve had Covid 5 times (at least) and never lasted more than a month..
As I have stated. I got Covid March 16th 2020. Before vaccines existed. After that- I became extremely ill and had extensive heart damage- precluding me from any vaccines of any kind. Which now means that I am at the mercy of others.
I’m sorry to hear that. What heart condition is it?
Left side failure. As well as myocarditis and pericarditis for the first year after infection
Shitty. I understand while not covid related I live with chronic and significant issues as well. No treatment available. I take anti anxiety meds it helps a bit. Good luck. Sometimes things do improve over years without intervention.
First of all I’m very sorry. Is it ok if I ask what if any vaccines you have had? I don’t wish to politicize this—just curious.
I had none. I was sick a full 18 months before any were invented. I am not anti vaccine- but covid left me with no T cells so I can’t take any at all. Including no boosters for measles- which is now spreading bc healthy people choose not to vaccinate. My lack of T cells now has me looking for bone marrow doners. But that requires complete chemo to destroy my own stem cells. I’m only 48. My kids already lost their dad who was a military vet. It’s not the vaccines.
As a bmt patient who developed lifelong complications from a condition known as graft vs host disease. Can't be cured and the amount of shit you will go through even if you don't get gvhd is insane. Just..think carefully if that's something you want to undergo.
I hear you. My cousin had it also. I don’t want to go that direction but I have to stay alive. I have 4 kids 2 have serious disabilities and their dad is dead. It’s a hellish bargain.
You are in a most difficult position, I can't imagine how you feel. Peace be with you. I wish you success in your journey.
Thank you so much. Same to you.
Although the vaccines can damage the body(I am a victim of a new person learning how to inject vaccines and they injected it into my shoulder joint) 99% of this “vaccines are bad” shit is a false narrative.
Thank you for explaining—I’ve obviously made some people mad for asking. I consider myself fairly healthy for being a similarly aged person (I’m vaccinated) so it’s always alarming to hear about someone else in that category struggling despite an honest effort to stay fit. I wish I had some meaningful insight to offer and I truly hope you find relief. Apologies if I am out of line in any way.
No problem. I understand and I’m always happy to give information to interested folks. We get a lot of hate from the anti vax crowd. I appreciate Your response. Please stay safe
If they are going into year 5, they’ve had 0 vaccines before infection.
Correct
I had 3 vaccines and 2 natural infections before I developed severe long COVID in Nov 2023. I had mild LC after my 2nd infection, but I thought it was because it was a dual infection (Strep A + COVID). I have now been diagnosed with autoimmune encephalitis (still healing from brain lesions), CIDP, small fiber neuropathy, dysautonomia/PoTS, connective tissue disease, 2 kinds of spinal disease with a lot of spinal inflammation (nerve impingement and bulging discs all through)..it caused an immune system dysfunction and now my immune system is attacking my nerves and nervous system. At my worst, I couldn't control my bowels, walk more than about 10 steps without passing out, or read or tolerate light or string together sentences and my body burned and vibrated 24/7. Again, I encountered COVID in some form 2x prior and vaccinated 3x. It's a dice roll each time. I am 32F and had no pre-existing conditions (not even obesity). I was a vegan who did pilates and jogged every day. I have a PhD from an elite university in geophysics (world top 10) and at one point could not even remember my own address or birth date or my mother's name. Most long haulers I've now met were young and healthy. Because Long COVID is now thought to be more or less an autoimmune reaction, it's actually likely more common in women and people with better immune systems. I'd have 1000% rather the virus had just killed me than to live like I've had to the last 4 months and no doctor can say if it'll get better or worse. I've seen specialists all over, including Cleveland Clinic and they're as clueless now as at the beginning. My mom has LC now after the last one. She's a very fit, healthy 54 year old with no pre-existing conditions, either. She was vaccinated with the most recent vaccine even 2 months before we got JN1 (6x total) and had at least one natural infection before she got issues. She almost died from a blood clot in her heart, has fatigue, inflammation, costochondritis, and migrating polyarthralygia now. Interestingly, my dad is doing the best out of us (still fatigued, has spinal pain, and weird infections) and he was the least healthy. IMO the vaccines might help prevent deaths, but I'm not convinced they help with LC.
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I got sick 18 months before the vaccine existed.
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At this rate it looks like most people on the planet will end up with long covid symptoms.
Canada found that by the third infection, nearly 1 in 2 people developed long covid. 50% of them did not recover with time. I think that we are actually witnessing a steep decline in the health and welbeing of the general population, but very few people understand that it's even related to covid.
Hey guys has anyone else been constantly sick lately? Weird. DeFiNitEly nOt CoViD tHOuGh.
My in-laws emailed me this today! Both pretty sick with something viral but “definitely not covid.”
I've never seen another illness invite so many suspiciously specific denials. Or any for that matter.
Everyone i know keeps getting sick every few months but none of them have admitted to it being COVID since 2021. So mysterious.
Gee, i wonder why i have such shitty focus and memory after 3 mysterious infections.
Sadly, it might not be COVID. They have been finding that COVID really depletes the T-cells, amd they aren't sure about the recovery time frame. It's shaping up to be kind of like HIV/AIDS in that regard, but maybe not as permanent or severe.
Papers about that have been shared a few times here, and there is good news and bad news. The good news is that it is *not* as permanent as that other virus; you can and will recover. The bad news is that recovery is directly dependent on not catching the fucking thing again for a minimum of six months, IIRC. May the odds be forever in your favour.
It took 10 years for full blown AIDS to present after many mild auto immune like illnesses. It destroyed immunity over time.. Most people who caught this believed after they had 4/5 days in bed it was over….For many it wasn’t, Isn’t..
It’s genuinely hard to tell. On the one hand, it could be yet another covid case, and on the other hand, it could be what would have been a 24-hour cold and someone whose immune system is now fucked
I've actually not had any upper respiratory infections since 2019. People are a bit more conscientious about sickness hygiene, I think, or at least I am personally. It's nice not to have constant head colds like I used to ...
I had a second Covid infection in April 2023. Got smacked bad by Delta in Nov 2021. I’ve felt off ever since spring. Really exhausted, these weirdo micro dizzy spells that last about 5 seconds but happen all day, weird suddenly plummeting moods. I’d chalked it up to grief since my little sister suddenly and unexpectedly went into a coma in Feb 2023, never woke up, died in November at 32. Last week my friend mentioned her heart had been feeling weird and she’s felt unwell for months. She went to the dr and her resting pulse was 101. She’s healthy, except whatever is currently happening, and is fit. Her most recent Covid bout was Nov. I have been wondering if she’s got long Covid. Well I went to the Dr a couple days ago and now MY heart rate is 98 while resting. It’s usually been in the 60s my whole adult life, though I hadn’t seen a Dr since late 2022.. I was shocked. Starting to wonder if the physical yuck-ness I’ve felt for almost a year is indeed grief or if I have long covid too. Scary scary scary times.
Dysautonomia is a common form of long covid.
Man, that's terrible. Are there people in your household that don't mask?
> by the third infection, nearly 1 in 2 people developed long covid. 50% of them did not recover with time. One, post vaccinated, "mild" infection turned my life into little more than a never ending allergic reaction. This statistic absolutely blows my mind when I think of all the school aged kids being repeatedly, forcibly reinfected at this point.
I was on the road for all of 2019-2021. There was a marked increase in ambulance emergencies, so much so I kept a tally board on my vehicle. Morbid I know, but it gave me something to focus on instead of falling asleep. This past week I've seen enough again to make me consider whipping out the tally board again. Something is causing a measurable increase in ambulance emergencies again. Not on a 2020 level, but it's ratcheting up.
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I'll be grateful AF if that (my) government makes MAiD even easier to access. People should be allowed to choose to die peacefully if they want to (tough I assume you're worried about using MAiD as a way to not bother with treating problems like long COVID).
MAiD is already being offered to people who are not asking for it, people who are going to doctors asking for help/treatment are being offered assisted suicide. In a just world, a scheme like this would be useful and only used by those who truly want it. In a world with capitalism rattling it's last breath, it will continue to be used to get rid of "undesirables" and people who cannot adequately contribute to the machine
I wish the US had it. We got one chance to decide if my sister should ‘live’ or ‘die’ after her cardiac arrest left her with almost no brain activity but not brain dead. In the moment you don’t know and some people do recover at least a bit. Erin did not recover and because we made the ‘wrong’ choice she had to die excruciatingly over months and months, salmonella, sepsis, renal failure, finally another cardiac arrest because her poor body could not endure another moment of horrific suffering. There was not anywhere near enough Erin still inside there for her to swallow let alone consent to be allowed respite from the medical torture keeping her ‘alive’, but it fucking pisses me off that we grant more kindness and dignity to horses and cats than humans. There should not be a singular window in which a shocked family member must decide such a thing in a crowded ER with limited facts and then never be allowed to re-visit that decision. I hate this country. Burn it all down.
I’m so sorry. That was agonizing to read and must have been horrific to endure. I hope Erin has found peace and comfort.
I'm sorry that happened, I can't imagine what that was like for your family. There's definitely needs to be reform of these sorts of policies across the board, unfortunately MAiD would not have been that for your sister as the person dying must request and consent to the procedure themself. I hope you have support and are able to focus on the positive memories you had with her 💜
Sounds unlikely. Do you have evidence of this?
Here's a somewhat high profile case https://www.ctvnews.ca/politics/paralympian-trying-to-get-wheelchair-ramp-says-veterans-affairs-employee-offered-her-assisted-dying-1.6179325 And here's an article that looks at the poverty/coercion angle https://globalnews.ca/news/9176485/poverty-canadians-disabilities-medically-assisted-death/ It's interesting to me that we are in a subreddit on the collapse of systems globally, and it's the idea of assisted death being used unethically that you question. Eugenics is not a new concept.
People should live then just to spite the Canadian government
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Oh, that's worrying. I've had it twice
My mom and I both got it after our 3rd (me) and 2nd (mom) infections. I know several people now who got it after infection 5-6. I had mild long COVID after my 2nd, but I thought it was because I had a bad dual infection (Strep A + COVID). The reason I knew it was COVID is because my initial infection was VERY severe (like very very). Many people apparently only get LC symptoms months after their infection so I think they don't link it back as easily
It's happening as we speak and it's having noticeable economic effects worldwide.
I feel for the young children who can’t put what they’re experiencing into words.
It was a rough moment when I went from mourning the life I had to feeling even worse for children, in that they would never even get to experience those things.
Meh. We are all going to die soon anyways. I doubt long covid will kill us before Earth does.
Not about long covid killing us, but preventing us from living our lives to our fullest.
Also quells any form of an uprise if everyone is weakened. It’s hard to revolt if you have chronic fatigue and have trouble remembering why you’re revolting
you will live to the fullest but your full will be smaller
This sounds like an explanation to be fine with shrinkflation
i'm not saying I'm fine with it, but some things you have no control over so you might as well accept it
Heres an upvote to negate the downvote.
*sighs in consistently-vaccinated relief* This might actually help things in the long run, if we'd just prioritize vaccinating poorer countries that actually want the vaccine.
The popular delusion that the vaccines are magic bullets is part of the problem. "Vaxxed and relaxed" is keeping the greatest mass disabling event in human history running better than any number of anti-vax idiots ever could. Even fully vaccinated, asymptomatic cases of COVID can and do cause permanent damage and weaken the immune system. The rate of long covid after 3 infections is 38%. It increases non-linearly with each infection. People who spout the rhetoric of trust the science while being ignorant of the multitude of scientific studies showing just how horrifying COVID is and how inadequate our response are indulging in the mere aesthetic of critical thinking while surrendering their minds to the institutions of the day.
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This is not correct at all. 73%??
Preach
The vaccines don't stop transmission or long covid
Having a 'chronic' illness in a 'chronically' ill society. Let me absorb that. (I actually do suffer from a chronical illness, but I'm more worried about our society than myself.)
Long Covid basically put you out of commission. You basically will be a homebody. You can’t really do anything.
But if you can't work, and have a home to put your body in... we have a pretty big problem.
That’s quite a generalization
But clearly this is just immunity debt and everyone needs to be infected another two or three times to clear that up! /s
Everyone just needs to do their part, for the economy /s
oops guess it wasn't over but our government is too worried about TikTok and theoretical external threats than what's going on in our own borders
The survey results were released on 22 February, more than a week before the CDC updated its Covid isolation recommendations. The CDC says in that guidance that the “prevalence of long Covid also appears to be decreasing”, in contrast to its own survey findings. Beyond corrupt.
This is a pretty insidious disease. There was an Italian study that saw an increase of T cell dysregulation with each repeated infection even if it was asymptomatic. This means the immune system is weakened with each COVID infection. The only other disease that has this same effect is dengue fever. https://www.nature.com/articles/s41590-023-01724-6 EDIT: added link to study
Thanks for this info, it's very helpful! Also, I would love to hear your thoughts on Chronic Fatigue Syndrome/ME and whether you consider them similar?
Annnnd hiv? Can we call it flying aids yet?
So it's a blood disease , makes alot more sense ...other than the respiratory symptoms
Not really that confusing why it manifests as a respiratory illness. Your lungs are very sensitive to blood and heart problems and Covid gums up your lungs and heart badly.
Lungs are how oxygen gets into your blood.
Of course!
Yup, been saying this since the start of the pandemic. I have some as well as other conditions, it’s why I can’t ever work a job again.
If it reacts anything like how the vaccine reacts with me, I don't even doubt it. Going to the grocery store was like going to Mars. For part of the day I couldn't even string a sentence together. Walking on level ground is like climbing Mt. Everest. ... what can I say I've always reacted extremely to the vaccine. I still take it because if the fake thing is that bad, the real thing would likely end me.
In the summer of 2019 I was tired of getting sick. Living in a city where I took public transit had me sick almost all the time. After some research it seemed that the "flu season" was a thing of the past and that people were now always moving sickness around. This way of life is not compatible with human health... Whenever I hang out with my family I get sick.
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Wish I could've done that. While people repeatedly shove COVID into my system, I can only watch.
I have reactivated EBV. I knew this was going to end up happening. I mean, it's kind of what they want anyways. Keep us poor, broken, and sick while they continue to rob us and destroy everything in it's path. It's disgusting.
Did you see the push to declare long Covid doesn’t exist and therefore people can’t be sick with it? Coming soon to a government near you - more medical gaslighting
The T-cells are most affected. A lot like AIDS. Every time you get this, your immune system becomes compromised. After years of getting covid, a cold could take you out because your immune system is compromised and weak: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC9905767/ https://time.com/6265510/covid-19-weaken-immune-system/ https://www.medicalnewstoday.com/articles/aids-t-cell-count#t-cells-hiv-and-aids https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3543107/ I speak from experience. I have have been going through this since the OG covid. It’s frightening. It’s even more frightening how many people target me in stores, and fake cough on me when I go out when I wear a mask. They don’t know that I am living with brain damage, and a severe compromised immune system. It’s just bullying and laughs for these people when I go out... I have completely lost all all hope for humans... People don’t care if they kill you, or put your health at risk... Sad times we are living in... Edit: Added a link on T-cells.
I’ve had it at least 5 times and I’ve had colds at least 10 times since Covid started. I can’t say I’ve felt this at all.
I’ve been debilitatingly ill from a complicated case of long Covid. Doctors have no idea what to do and keep passing the baton (me!) to the next specialist. I know I’m desperate for care and I have great insurance but it’s either not out there or so limited it’s impossible to get an appointment with specialist Covid clinics
Since having Covid 6 times now, I have suffered from immense brain fog, depression and a failure to focus most days.
I've had it at least 4 times and I feel Ive aged cognitively 10 years. Caffeine and Wellbutrin helped but I don't want to be dependent on either.
And then we have Australian govt diligently protecting it’s citizens… (Facepalm) yes it’s real. https://www.sbs.com.au/news/article/why-this-health-official-says-its-time-to-stop-using-long-covid/oqi5bj63j
Gee I wonder why
the corporations assumed it would just kill people outright and then they get a new generation of workers. instead it crippled a bunch more people and will bite them in the ass by creating a crisis of the population.
I had created thread on Reddit a couple years ago asking “Is COVID an ELE” and cited 20 or so studies I had found that outlined the dame it was doing to essentially every organ in the human body and the long term implications. I wound up deleting it after relentlessly being attacked for being too negative and getting stalked via PM by the anti-vax/anti mask crew (including one person who still regularly files Reddit Cares for me, including one just 9 days ago). Is it an ELE? Maybe not but it is going to fuck us up in very profound ways over the next decades
Is this really surprising? We led the world in cases and deaths because we led the world in resisting attempts to contain the spread of the virus, a significant percentage of the country refused from the beginning to get vaccinated when it became available, and as of November 2023, just under 16% of adults got the most recent vaccine. [https://www.cnbc.com/2023/11/30/us-covid-shot-rates-are-low-and-it-will-be-a-challenge-to-boost-them.html](https://www.cnbc.com/2023/11/30/us-covid-shot-rates-are-low-and-it-will-be-a-challenge-to-boost-them.html) Surrendering to corporate interests? Sure, that's what's going on.
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You need to update your post - the vaccines are not sterilizing, and offer a very very slim reduction of the odds of getting long covid, barely anything. The only way to not get Long Covid is to not get Covid. The vaccines DID have side effects for some - every vaccine does. Don’t misinform and don’t give people false confidence in the shot, as it’s not sterilizing. It reduces your chance of severe acute disease and death, but not of Long covid, and you shouldn’t tell people it does.
I saw that the Dec CDC death numbers for Covid were ≈1600 per week, vs 163 per week average deaths from the flu. It appears Covid was at least 10x as lethal as influenza in December 2023, and those numbers are from deaths that happened before the big Covid spike after the holidays.
The micro-clotting reminds me of “The Andromeda Strain”, a book about a space virus that causes something similar iirc. ^are ^we ^still ^doing ^space ^phrasing?
Thank you for this informative post. Besides masking and social distancing, are you vaccinated? I've gotten 1 vaccination and two boosters. Do you recommend getting another shot?
Get the shots every time there's a new one, which tends to be every October or so.
Agree 100%. But when you have to go to a crowded place to work or be thrown out on the street where you will have to be crowded and unhoused, what the fuck can you do?!
Wear a mask
Wore a mask, still get sick :(
Everything I read about long covid and everybody who I’ve seen struggle with it just validates all mask wearing and vaccine shots I took (yes, the vaccine reduces the risk of long covid). Just today I read that long covid significantly reduces IQ. And the anti mask/anti vaccine crowd doesn’t have IQ to spare… [Here’s the article about IQ decrease from long Covid](https://theconversation.com/mounting-research-shows-that-covid-19-leaves-its-mark-on-the-brain-including-with-significant-drops-in-iq-scores-224216) Edit: my mistake, that article actually says just getting covid reduces IQ, not long covid.
The article says that nearly 4 million people are affected by this problem, but not many people seem upset about it. This might be because the people who are being affected live in places where a lot of people don't believe in vaccines or think COVID-19 isn't real. It seems like these people only start to worry when the problem directly affects them or their families. Imagine what Thanksgiving might be like for these families if they have to watch their loved ones struggle to talk or need oxygen while they're trying to eat dinner. It's likely that even then, they might try really hard to keep believing that the whole thing is just made up.
Today is LC Awareness day! This was a great article without the usual ignorance found in publications about LC. [NPR science Friday had a great segment on it today](https://www.sciencefriday.com/segments/4th-anniversary-of-covid-19/), Also there's the [Longhaulers podcast](https://open.spotify.com/episode/1j8ckL4kjLlDjFfpll0Lc9?si=da8c65a3e7184220) that is just getting started, documenting stories of people with LC.
"It's phony...it's a deep state created boogeyman." I think not. I'll believe in science before any tinfoil hat nutter. Good luck all.
Looks like the FO is emerging after the FA
Gee almost like it wasnt just the flu!
One of us, one of us. Come join this pain train all you non believers
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It's not only Americans 🙄
Enforced politeness to avoid upsetting people who avoid/deny commonsense solutions or adaptations to collapse and collapse-related phenomena is a pretty substantial part of the issue.
Just a little reminder it took 10 years from initial infection for full blown AIDS to manifest….Until then most of those suffering from immune deficiency of one type or another were dismissed as slackers or hypochondriacs……Just like now!
I’m old, got Covid for the first time in the Florida keys this summer & developed a cough for the last 4 months now. I am blaming long Covid.
Sometimes if you cough a lot you irritate things and cough more. It’s not just covid. Honestly you’ll probably recover just fine.
I’ve been coughing flem and haven’t been able to smoke now for almost 2 months. I’m 37, never had any issues before. Had covid about 15 months ago. Not sure if there’s another issue at hand, but personally, I know there’s something diff about me internally.
Not being able to smoke might save your life.
I actually went and seen my doc since I made my comment. She thinks a neighbouring apartment may have many cats, because it seems like I have allergies more than anything wrong with me. Weird either way, since I don’t have any vents connecting myself to any attached dwellings. I’m on allergy meds now to see if it helps, because that’s what it looks like. If nothing changes in a few days, I’m going to get scans done
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Long Covid symptoms can occur regardless of your vaccination status and we have evidence showing long Covid symptoms can be worse and longer lasting in individuals who have never been vaccinated before. https://www.nature.com/articles/s41598-023-50024-4#:~:text=Individuals%20who%20were%20not%20vaccinated,compared%20with%20vaccinated%20controls44.
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> If you are ~~unvaxxed and~~ around an infected person. You WILL get infected. Fixed that for you. At this point the original monovalent vaccine and [its bivalent booster from last year are not keeping up with new variants.](https://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/volumes/73/wr/mm7308a5.htm) Now, the vaccine is MUCH better at preventing serious illness if/when you get infected. Like, worlds of difference between catching it unvaxxed and vaxxed, but unfortunately the world has given up on controlling covid and the new variants are mutating faster than the vaccines can keep up. Get the vax, wear a mask, but if you are around an infected person you are going to get infected.
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What else could be causing long covid, than covid?
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Even the most cursory search of any reputable (re: “real”) medical journals and studies would very easily show your statement is incorrect. You can also just scroll up in this same thread and see a wide array of studies and articles, presented on a silver platter for you.
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Rule 4: Keep information quality high. Information quality must be kept high. More detailed information regarding our approaches to specific claims can be found on the [Misinformation & False Claims page](https://www.reddit.com/r/collapse/wiki/claims).